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Engine Oil--A slippery subject
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I asked the dealership if I should flush out the 'new' oil BEFORE the recommended change at 3750 miles. They said NO. I thought that NEW cars had special NEW oils that needed to be changed after about 1,000 miles, to flush out any new metal bits from the engine. What's up?
As for "is it required"? For me I say "who cares" I have more important things to worry about than that. If it comes to a discussion point, than I say "if I think it needs changing than I will change it".
Just change it before 7,500 miles!
DMK
Thanks again
1. Initial oil should be whatever the factory puts in. A non-detergent is best. Detergents are used to keep the engine "clean" and that is not necessary with a new engine.
2. Change the "break in" oil at 250-500 miles. The more city miles the sooner.
3. Refill with the recommended oil type. The recommended oil type is best for the type of wear the engine will be encountering. A small hard working engine requires a different type of oil than a large highway engine. A synthetic IS NOT
a good idea at this point because the reason for the first oil change is to get rid of the small deposits created by wear and the machining processes which cleaning was not able to remove.
4. The thinner the oil the better. Thick oil does not flow as well, and hence causes greater hydraulic friction at wear points, and is more difficult to pump. This is power robbing and performance degrading, and for what? Hydraulic
friction causes no wear, which is the purpose of lubrication. Better hydraulic friction than metal on metal, such as bearing surfaces.
5. Synthetic lubricants prevent wear altogether. This includes the ability for the rings to polish the cylinder walls. The result will be excessive blow by the rings, thus contaminating the oil sooner. Kind of like shooting yourself in the
foot.
6. Use a good filter. The latest offerings from Purolator are good. I have seen cutaways of Fram filters, and they don't as much filter media as the Purolator, which, by becoming "full" sooner causes greater work to filter. Most engines
have a pressure regulator which discontinue filtering when filter contamination creates excessive energy to pump. To save the oil pump from premature failure, and allows it to return to normal when filtering is possible.
7. The most important factors to remember about engine oil is monitoring. It may say to change it every 7500 miles, but if takes years of short city driving trips to make that many miles, the engine will certainly suffer. The best thing
to do is to make time to change the oil when its color changes from a amber color to brownish black. It does not need changing in this condition, but setting aside a time to do it and getting supplies at hand. When the color
approaches a dark amber with black, it is time to change. The black is micro fine contaminants which will produce sludge in time. Removing them is to remove the sludge creating culprit.
Remember: unless the engine is a short lived high performance number, or one which requires a great deal of maintenance due to performance, a standard oil is good. Oil does not wear out, it becomes dirty or burnt.
I figure I'll stick with 3,000 intervals, but do you think the dealer is not speaking the truth about the break-in oil? Thanks.
By the way, there's a website that compares the construction of a number of oil filters like Fram, Purolator, Wix, etc. Very interesting. Makes one want to avoid Fram like the plague. (I use Honda's filters exclusively.) Can't remember the URL. Try doing a search including the word "Mopar" and "oil filters", and you'll probably find it. Or do a search in this forum topic. I think someone posted the URL some messages ago.
do you happen to have the # for Honda tech?
thank you again!
Q & A
Why should I wait to change the oil the first time?
Your Honda engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process.
American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions.
threat of a lawsuit, but has been put back up with
a lot of the "opinionated commentary" removed. For what it's worth, here's a link to the site:
http://minimopar.simplenet.com/oilfilterstudy.html#fram
Very interesting stuff, even without the commentary.
Dave
Rick
Anyway it was SUPPOSED to be relative to post #468 "THE Method" by "kewldude":
My experience indicates much of this information is, while perhaps well-intentioned, not entirely accurate. I do not have the time to fully address each item now, but this post is rather strongly worded and I feel compelled to chime in with a "proceed cautiously" admonition for much of the advice based on my knowledge.
See some of my previous posts for some info on these subjects with a slightly different perspective. I would note that item #6 is pretty much accurate.
Thanks.
guitarzan
Community Leader/Vans Conference
With your driving of 25miles to work on the freeway, that motor should last a good 200,000 miles at least.
It is good news and bad news.
The easiest way to see the extent, is to pull the valve covers or get a swab and swab around the inside of the interior of the engine. The oil analysis will certainly give a hint at residuals.
First and foremost the ash content % in conventional oils is much higher than synthetic oils, which is one reason why just more frequent oil changes will not necessarily solve the problem.
At 135k I had asked my dealer for a Borsch system flush, similar to what you had mention. Their action was to use a lower level flush and not only did they not charge me for it, they told me that there was very very little sludge. Before they did the flush, I asked if it would increase performance and they answered it was hit or miss.(By the way the performance increase was noticeable to me) Whether or not it would make a difference in your case is a bit unknown from what you wrote. I think also that is is probably a revenue booster based on half truth or truths.
The Borsch system is a hot solvent wash piped under pressure. So in that sense, it is a closed/return system. The dealer can cite the heated solvent used and at what temp.`
In my own case, the crankcase system was used after the dealer determined that the Borsch system was overkill. (No charge vs $140?)
For me to ask for it, was really a belt and suspenders procedure on my part. They did tell me that there was VERY VERY little sludge, and actually could have gone without what they did.
I am actually shooting for 250-300k on this inline 6 cylinder engine. (The vehicle is 13 yrs old.)
In another case, I just recently had a 60k major tune (30k interval) (I change synthetic oil every 15k) They had the valve covers off to check the valve adjustments, and I asked if there was any abnormalities/and or sludge, they said absolutely NONE, and said there was abnormally low wear, based on like vehicles. While they didn't say it, it was a backhanded reference to the 15k oil change doing the job that it was intended to do.
Any experts out there?
Also - Mobil 1 regular v.s. tri-synthetic, what's the difference?
Thanks,
-cr
In some cases this affects only the BASE stock used (ie dino juice from the middle east vs TX vs alaska...) and Napa or whoever supplies the additives, in other cases it is pure whatever brand but with a different sticker on the front. There are probably combinations of the above too.
The old guys often know what they are talking about while the young ones will lie as they fell like it. (But I've known old guys to spout information that was true 20 years ago but isn't now) caviet emptor.
For me the temptation would be to buy on price. I have standardized on getting Mobil One, for it happens to be one of the middle to lower priced ones. I have seen Pennsoil Performax? synthetic for $1 cheaper, and would have bought it, but they didn't have the vis weight I wanted. While it doesn't seem like much, the savings in my case can buy 1 to 3 new oil filters.
So far this is the cheapest I have found it.
Thanks,
-cr
"Dear Mr. -----,
You can start using Mobil 1 in new vehicles at any time. In fact, Mobil 1 is the factory fill in Corvette LS1, LT-1 and LT-5 engines. And Mobil and Porsche just announced a new partnership that will also have all Porsche cars manufactured at the Zuffenhausen plant lubricated with Mobil 1. One of the myths that persists about Mobil 1 is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. Current engine
manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As the decisions by the engineers who design the Corvette and Porsche engines indicate, Mobil 1 can be used in an engine from the day you drive the car off the show room floor.
The “30” designation identifies that all three grades (0W-30, 5W-30 and 10W-30) will exhibit the same oil viscosity at normal engine operating
temperatures. The “W” designation identifies the low temperature viscosity. A smaller number indicates an ability to flow at lower temperatures. In summary, Mobil 1 0W-30 will provide the correct viscosity protection at normal engine operating temperatures, and BETTER
protection at low temperature extremes for any vehicle that calls for a 5W-30 or 10W-30 engine oil.
If you have any additional questions, you may contact us at our E-mail address: lubes@ffx.mobil.com or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL."
I am a new 2000 Mustang owner. Its a V6/Auto with just over 1000 miles, 99% highway. I plan to do the first oil change (myself) at 1500, but need to know:
The manuf. recommends 5W-30 oil. Is it okay to use 10W-30 oil? Will it void warranty or cause other problems?
I know I'm going to use the non-synth oil, but I'm concerned about going against the manuf. recommendation.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance...
I am a new 2000 Mustang owner. Its a V6/Auto with just over 1000 miles, 99% highway. I plan to do the first oil change (myself) at 1500, but need to know:
The manuf. recommends 5W-30 oil. Is it okay to use 10W-30 oil? Will it void warranty or cause other problems?
I know I'm going to use the non-synth oil, but I'm concerned about going against the manuf. recommendation.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance...
Sorry for the duplicate post (hit the reload button by mistake)...
Ditto on RTFM. I do use the Mobil 1 in 5-30W and will switch to 0-30W on the next change.
That is the cheapest I that I have heard. (non bulk)
Thanks again