Engine Oil--A slippery subject

b3u12

I have read all the postings and it can get confusing.bought my wife a 1992 Olds new.Her job is only 5 miles from home and a weekly vist to
town.That car has 31,000 miles on it.Changed oil regular mobil 1.Point I,m getting at is the seals are now old but the engine is still dry with no oil leaks.I wounder if this would still be case if I used regular oil?
P.S. have a pit in my garage I put in in the early 60,s,so oil changes are no problem to me.any coment,s?
"pitboss"

dhoff

Yeah, I have a comment. I wish I had a grease pit in my garage! I hate jacking up the car and wiggling my way under the car to get to the oil filter, especially in the winter.

Regarding engine seals and synthetic oil, I'm guessing that car manufacturers have improved materials in newer cars so this isn't such a problem now.

Dave

bobbybe

Almost 1 year ago I sent an e-mail off to
Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. and asked them the same
question....is it the same oil in a yellow and
green bottle? I received a reply from someone
who was supposed to be a chemical engineer from
the company. His reply was that they are both
unique formulas and have their own unique
chemical properties. I am inclined to believe him
as there is a even a visual difference if you
look at new/clean Quaker State 5W30 and compare it
to Pennzoil 5W30. He would not answer which of
the 2 is superior. So, by avoiding the question,
which is his job, I switched to Castrol.
(I'm a change every 3 to 4 months guy with relatively low mileage so I don't bother with the syn-oils as they're all good enough if you have
my low milage, garage kept vehicle.)

So, if you're using conventional oil, you'll have
to decide for yourself if you prefer PZ or QS.
(I personally prefer the appearance of the yellow
bottle.) And living approximately 60 miles south
of Oil City, PA I miss the idea that it's not
Pennsylvania Grade A Crude anymore with lots of
paraffin wax to cushion those moving parts and gum-up your engine. ;^)

igloomaster

I had a girlfried once who's name was Paraffin Wax....

markbuck

Was made by QS for a couple of years.

Now Walmart has a new house brand, forget the name. Probably a new multi year contract with another big supplier.

BTW, I think some of the additive packs (especially those with Zinc) will show up in the ash % column, as the don't burn/evaporate off, and this is not necessarily bad......

dhoff

I used to use Penzoil (back in the early to mid nineties) but stopped when I started hearing rumors of oil deposits forming in engines using the brand. I have no way of knowing if they were true or not, but I decided to play it safe.

I bought a new van about a year ago and initially started using Quaker State synthetic blend. Initially I liked it because it comes in clear bottles and since the oil capacity of the van is 4 1/4, they made it much easier to get in the right amount of oil. But after some very scientific analysis I decided to switch to Castrol synthetic blend. When pouring the Q.S., it seemed thinner in viscosity than the Castrol I used on my wife's car. When I switched the van to Castrol, I noticed that the engine seemed quieter mechanically. So I decided to switch based on that.

Dave

scherf

Actually, I just got a bunch of stuff in the
mail from Quaker State/Pennzoil. I wanted to see if the "Purebase" changed any of the important numbers (viscosity, flash point, ect.) or if it was just a bunch of marketing crap. They had different numbers altogether, with Pennzoil coming out on top. Interestingly, they wouldn't tell me (I even called again) to get he % of ash in their oils. Quaker State used to release it, and most other firms seem to as well. But this time they told me it was "proprietary information." Ash is primarily what causes the "sludge" in your engine. I wonder what's up with that? I've heard that Autozone, Pep Boys, ect. use major brands and just market it under their name. I'd be interested to see what that Wal-Mart Tech 2000 everyone loves so much actually is...

scherf

I looked into a link posted a while back called "More than you ever wanted to know about engine oil." It was some good stuff, and I checked into some webpages to see what the newer oils numbers looked like. Valvoline had really improved (viscosity index jumped something like 25), but most of the others stayed basically the same. I was just wondering what everyone who knew anything about tech specs (is our lubricants engineer still out there?) thought the single most important number is (viscosity index, flash point, ect). It seems like there's a tradeoff--a few oils (Pennzoil, Havoline, Castrol, Valvoline, to name a few) seemed to have better numbers, but it seems that if one goes up, something else comes down. I've kind of been like Dave--I listen to my truck and see how it seems to like a particular oil, but that is only a superficial picture of what's really going on in there.

ruking1

#629
The real equalizers are the standards advertised on the packaging that any oil that professes to adhere to: i.e., api, sd, etc. There are differences in the numbers, but past the point of the standards, those numbers while better are "gravy".

rs_petty

I don't think anyone would argue that a full synthetic is better than a conventional oil when looking at the spec sheets. The question is whether it is better for the cost increase or does conventional work ok for its use. One of the reasons I am looking at synthetic is because I've used Havoline and QS over the last ten years with pretty consistent 3k changes. When I look inside the filler neck the moving parts don't look clean. That's the soot buildup. Since my new truck has a DOHC I'm looking for an oil that protects, but won't gum up the works, so to speak. Mobil 1 has convinced me that their oil keeps the internal parts cleaner over time (compare the oil pans) and that should mean a better life for the engine. I also believe that a synthetic would be better to meet the 7500 mile factory recommended changes. Guess I didn't see the 3k changes value in my old truck. I suppose in about 10 years/100,000 miles I'll know if I made a good choice or not. May go back to conventional oil/3k changes depending on what my experience is. Oils range in price in my area from less than .80 to 3.99 a quart. Do you get what you pay for or since they all meet API SJ are you throwing money away?

ruking1

#630
Since ash % is the most important indicator of sludge buildup, conventional oil specs assiduously avoid comparing it with syn oil, and stress the 3k oil change, which is very extreme. The syn ash % is much much lower than conv oil can ever aspire. I regularly go 15k on Mobil One. A daily driver, 94TLC has 65k on this maint cycle and the dealer at 60k during a valve adjust, removed both the valve covers! Not a lick of problem with sludge. Cause I say it??? NOT. Cause they say it!

reanimator1

Hey everyone,
I'm new to this topic, but cannot resist adding my comments:
Back in 1980 I worked for the Baltimore County (Maryland) government. This was during the gas crisis days. I worked in the Energy Office, and specialized in Transportation. The big thing at that time was energy conservation. I was trained in a program (forgot the name) created/sponsored by the US Dept. of Energy and NASCAR. The goal was for my department to train Balto. Co. Govt. employees in efficient driving techniques, when they used government fleet vehicles. The intent was to save the Government money in wasted fuel costs. These savings were calculated to be tens of thousands of dollars a year. I will not go into details about how or what techniques were taught (if anyone is interested, send e-mail request), but the topic of warming up a car was part of my training. It seems that the Energy Department/NASCAR conducted extensive research and concluded that the optimum warmup period is 30 SECONDS! I realize that this sounds like too short of a time, most people I know like to warm up their cars at least 5-10 minutes. However the rational goes like this:
A cold vehicle does not operate efficiently, meaning that it wastes gasoline. The engine only needs 30 seconds of idling to warm up. Any additional idling is nothing but a waste of gasoline. After 30 seconds, you should drive off, but drive at moderate speeds (no highway driving) for the first 3-5 miles. You see, the entire car needs to warm up, not just the engine. That means the shocks, tires, steering, etc..., needs to warm up before the car can operate efficiently. This is evidenced by the numurous creaks and groans you hear when you first begin driving on very cold days. The only way for these systems to warm up is by driving. Have you noticed that those sounds disappear after driving a few miles? Since your car does burn gas while idling, if you warmup your car for 5, 10, even 15 minutes, all that gas has been wasted. Even though your gas mileage when you begin driving will be lower than optimum, it's better than nothing (for example, if you only get 8MPG for the first few miles, that's better than 0MPG, the mileage you get while idling). If you follow these guidelines, you will save a considerable amount of gas during the winter months. Also, if you read your owner's manual for your car, it will state that excessive idling is harmful to the engine. If you ever have to idle more than about 5 minutes (toll booths, traffic jams, drive-thru windows, etc...), it is recommended that you turn off the engine. Check out your manual before you dispute this information.
P.S. These guidelines refer to a car in good operating condition, i.e. your car needs regular tuneups, oil changes, etc. A poorly tuned car will always waste fuel.

reanimator1

Hey everyone,
a comment on oil numbers, here in Md. our climate is not too extreme, and auto manufacturers and mechanics recommend a 10W30. In case you don't know, the first number refers to the oil's thickness in cold weather and the second refers to thickness at high temps. In other words, it performs like a 10 weight (very thin, easy flowing) at sub-zero temps and like a 30 weight (thicker, heat resistant) at high temps. I had a 1975 Spitfire, and thought I should use Castrol 20W50, since the engine does rev pretty high and get quite hot. It worked great in the summertime, oil did not thin out at high temps, but was a real drag in the winter. During a very cold and snowy period in the mid-1980's, my Spitfire refused to start in the morning on a number of occasions. Seems the oil was too thick to flow at sub-zero temps. After I changed to 10W40, it started fine. I just purchased a 2000 Tiburon last month, and intend to change the oil in a few weeks. I'm going with a synthetic, 5W50, probably Mobil 1. I like the high viscosity at hig temps and have learned my lesson about thick oils in winter (hearing a lot of predictions of a really bad winter this year). So the 5 weight should work fine. Any comments?

davids1

My opinion of lengthy warmup periods: Not needed.
Just think about it. If your engine is not adequately lubricated within SECONDS of startup, you're gonna have more serious problems anyway.

lwittorf

I ask the lead man in automotive at the local wal
mart and he told me it is still made by Q state
but he diden't show me any thing on paper. As far
as syn goes I use and like mobil 1 5-30 with a
a-c filter and change at 5000 miles I find it
starts easier and I haven't noticed any or very
little dirty look in the filler hole. I do have a nephew with big trucks and he uses mobile delvac 1500 15-40 with good luck.Had one engine top off and it was real clean.

scherf

Like Reanimator1, I just bought a new vehicle (Ford Ranger). I have some comments on what he says, but also some questions of my own. I've always felt that the lowest viscosity range is the best (other posts have echoed this as well). With this in mind, I wouldn't use 5W-50. Despite being synthetic oil, Castol or Mobil still has to use a bunch of viscosity improvers to get that wide of a range. Also, I have never, ever heard of a car that recommends 5W-50. If there is a such a vehicle, please tell me. I'd use synthetic 10W-30 or 5W-30, depending on what your manufacturer recommends (both Mobil and Castrol make it). Here's my question--(well, actually 2): I have no doubt that synthetic protects better than conventional oil, but the manufacturer recommends 3K oil changes for severe service (that's me). Does it explicitly void the warranty if I use synthetic and change less often? Ford wouldn't tell me... Also, I was extremely surprised to see that I am supposed to use 5W-30 in my truck engine (V-6). Does anyone else with a V-6 have that recommendation? Really surpised me, but maybe that's just because I'm still stuck in the old 20W-50 days. If I had a four cylinder Honda, sure, but a truck? Thanks...

ruking1

#638
No it doesnt void the warranty! The real idea behind 3k oil changes is 1. monetary 2. If you really beat the thing to death,... start/stop short one block trips all day long for 50,000 miles, that sort of thing. I have personally run military vehicles with this beat them to death mode (sorry all you taxpapers out there) and have seen engine teardowns, while broken, still clean as a whistle. I forgot to add they used the CHEAPEST conv oil, so if you use syn M1 with the manufactures cycle of 7.5k it will be plenty fine!
In previous post I stated I run 15k cycles with M1 on a TLC. 63k miles and clean as it can be.

ccotenj

manual recommends 5-30 for my 98 f150... has the big v6 in it...

rs_petty

Has been recommended in my last 3 new cars (1 ford, 1 chevy, 1 toyota). Seems to be the going viscosity and helps manufacturer fuel mileage ratings. Suspect that's why you find so much 10w-30/40 at the discount clubs.

rs_petty

If I understand the viscosity ratings correctly, then the 5w-50 should withstand higher temperature loadings better than the 5w-30 and still be equal at lower temperatures. If that is the case you are getting a wider temperature variance in your operating range. Since my owner's manual doesn't recommend a 50 weight I probably wouldn't use it, but it was available in syntec at BJ's for almost $1 a quart cheaper than Mobil 1. Tempting economics, but what am I missing?

ruking1

#642
Too much visosity range for your manufacture's specs. I would pass on that puppy.

mzn

Friends, as you may know, our discussion software can become a bit unwieldy when topics carry more than 500 posts so I've frozen this topic. To keep the conversation going, please join us at Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2. Thanks!

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