I bought my then 17 year old daughter a 99 Camry two years ago. I'd have gone older but liked the safety features that were there by 99 - particularly the dual air bags.
Absolutely correct that she doesn't appreciate the extent of that favor.
Daughter number tow is now on her permit. Back in April I bough myself a Celica convertible as a cheap toy for myself making us a four car three driver family for a while. I told my daughter that she and I can split the van and the Celica with her mostly getting the van. She's thrilled with that. Good kid.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
dallasdude: Given that most German companies are union represented as is Opel in Germany. The car has been redone today CTS (Catera Touring Sedan) and can't keep up with demand in these trying times. Then its a UAW built car from Michigan.
As of mid-November, dealers had a 102-day supply of the CTS at the current sales rate (60 days of supply is considered optimal). It appears as though demand has been met.
but it's too small and limited to compete with all but the 3 and maybe 5 series. The STS is a failure, as it's not enough different or larger than the 3 to make a good 5 or 7 competitor, and the DeVille, my personal favorite Cadillac, is a great car, but not even the same style as a BMW.
I fear that Cadillac is in danger of becoming a good niche car only, if they can't diversify their product line better - instead, they are contracting it.
"And in my extra opinion the day the US plants shut down the importers will just start importing vehicles from overseas because they have their own suppliers (negligible exports from US). The plants here will probably stay shut for years keeping the home plants in business. There will be no real reason to build vehicles in the US unless the dollar ratio makes it more economical.
You've made this statement before, but it makes no business sense. Consider Honda, for example, which has been building cars here for almost 25 years."
Hopefully we will never have to find out. IF the suppliers do shut down in the US for up to one year(as reported by independent think tanks) everyone who can will import every vehicle they can sell. If anyone thinks otherwise I would like to hear why. Sure overall sales may plummet but if they can sell them they will import them. Remember Japan has been in the dumps longer than us and there is all kinds of unused capacity over there.
However if it makes so much sense to build here why does Toyota still import 50% of their vehicles from outside of NA? Yes, I can see them building here in the US vehicles they only sell here (trucks) but they import probably 65% of their cars. Why not run 3 shifts here and really get the plant productivity up?
Actually it would take awhile to get all the production over there because they do not have the capacity there to supply normal US production.
You may be right but at the present level of sales here in the U.S and the inventory already built, there would be at least 2-3 months of domestic vehicles to meet supply even if all plants close, which I think will never happen.
I realize it takes time to start-up a plant but if the reorg is done correctly, only the models that are selling need to be built. If you consider the nameplates of all 3, I would imagine there would be some models that would continue no matter what plan is approved. The problem is transitioning to smaller cars people will buy and the Government will mandate.
This is where decisions need to be made to stop production on a good number of nameplates that will not be in U.S. Auto Future!
With union labor in Japan costing more than U.S. non-union labor, & factoring in the cost of shipping vehicles from the Japanese Home Islands to North American markets, it would make more sense to eliminate excess capacity by shutting down Japanese plants. If the current recession turns out to be a long one, I'd expect to see that happen.
I'd also expect to see Lexus vehicles built in & shipped from Japan for several years to come. Call 'em unpatriotic if you want, but U.S. Lexus buyers want to see "Made in Japan" on their cars, even though Toyota's North American plants could probably turn out cars of equal quality. In this respect, they're just like American buyers who avoid cars built in BMW's South African plant & insist on German-made cars.
I will not buy my kids anything extravagant regarding their first car, I can see buying them something that is reliable and safe. The work restrictions on school age kids are to the point that it is almost impossible for them to if they are involved in a lot of after school activities. I'd say something like a 2-3 year old Focus/Cobalt or a used domestic midsize car can be had cheap enough for the kids to use.
My plan is to first make sure my son knows how to drive- think Street Survival and the BMW Performance Driving School. Then, if he has a job and needs a car for work or after school sports I'll HELP him buy a safe slug such as a Volvo 240 or maybe even an elderly 5er. If he goes a year without any at-fault accidents or tickets THEN we'll discuss a cooler ride. At 14 he's already saying he wants my Club Sport when he turns 16. I think not. Maybe the 2002, but not the Club Sport.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Market Conditions This vehicle is selling at a reasonable pace; supply and demand are pretty well matched. The price reflects a fair price for both sides of the transaction, given good availability of the product. Kelly Blue Book on the 2009 CTS
During employee pricing weekend all of the 08 CTS's were sold
"However if it makes so much sense to build here why does Toyota still import 50% of their vehicles from outside of NA?
Same reason GM doesn't have a Corvette factory in Europe or an Enclave factory in China."
Not sure your answer really answers the question. Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles? If it was so much cheaper they could just increase plant capacity by going to 3 shifts here in the states.
I doubt GM would ever build a low volume vette in a different country. This would mean having double the tooling. Ah, perhaps that is why the Lexus's are imported since they are low volume and have little in common with the Toyota models (other than the ES). Still I believe they are importing quite a few Camrys and Corrollas?
I will not buy my kids anything extravagant regarding their first car
If you have the means, get them a new sports car. Why do you want the headache of fixing old junk. My oldest went to a private prep school and his 2002 Z28 wasn't exactly the best car on the high school parking lot. He did his school work and earned a full scholarship, which included room and board. He will be a chemical engineer before the summer. He has already gotten offers as high as $80,000 a year to start.
Not sure your answer really answers the question. Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles? If it was so much cheaper they could just increase plant capacity by going to 3 shifts here in the states.
I'd guess that they have models not set up to be produced in the US (I think the CRV is one of them, but not sure). Aren't they working on setting up a plant to produce Priuses in the US?
>Not sure your answer really answers the question. Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles? If it was so much cheaper they could just increase plant capacity by going to 3 shifts here in the states.
That's a good point. Looking at it on a micro scale, more production here would mean more employees. That could lead to wage pressures in areas where plants are located trying to employee more workers on a part time basis or even as full time. That might even lead to unionization by the UAW.
Also more production here would mean less money going back to the motherland. The reality is they are still Japanese companies and the money still goes home flowing through suppliers set up here or other routes.
I firmly believe they build in Japan (rather than here) because the fact is that they need to keep their empoyment rate as high as they can. They certainly don't need LESS people working. (Too bad we don't think that way...
Jack Smith took over GM in 1992 and left in 2000. During that time GM dumped 49% of their employees. I would say that is less than a prosperous time for the UAW.
The prosperity of the '90s helped keep GM solidly profitable until the end of the decade, although it never reached Smith's target of a 5% net profit margin. He also kept shrinking the company (helped greatly by the spinoff of the Delphi parts-making unit). Total employment, which stood at 757,500 when Smith took over, had fallen to 388,000 by the time he left office. But Smith's elfin charm wasn't enough to stop warring factions among engineering, manufacturing, and design from undermining one another's work.
And Smith failed to address such looming problems as why GM still had divisions like Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile. With its market share down to 30% and falling, it didn't need all those brands, and ensuring that each model was distinctive remained a constant headache. The problem of "look-alike cars," brilliantly revealed in a memorable 1985 Fortune cover photograph, continued to bedevil GM.
A prosperity built on gas guzzling SUVs and big PU trucks.
From a very good article on the demise of a once successful automaker.
dallasdude: During employee pricing weekend all of the 08 CTS's were sold
That only proves that if GM loads a vehicle with a lot of incentives, it can get rid of leftover models. If the CTS really were selling out, there wouldn't have been any leftover 2008 models to sell, and no need for GM to offer employee pricing.
Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles?
Because that 50% is scattered among a bunch of low- and moderate-volume vehicles. The biggest single chunk is the RAV4 (8% of October's volume) and the Prius (7.8%), both of which are set for North American production in the next few years. The next biggest after those are the Highlander (4.5%) and the Yaris (3.2%). Lexus was 10.7% and Scion was 4.4%. Camry (including the hybrid) was 20% by itself.
Not until I'm convinced he can handle one. I might get him a newer product of Munich or Stuttgartf after a year and a few HPDEs in the '02- I want him to actually learn how to drive without the assistance of intrusive electronic nannies.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Building cars in the USA is good business for the Japanese, Germans, Koreans and soon to be Chinese. Ask yourself why not the Big 3? I think you can trace it to the UAW. It would be interesting to see the percentage of disgruntled UAW workers to Toyota workers.
Was watching a news program on cable recently on topic of unions. Guest showed the host a 2,200 page document (looked like 8.5x11 paper) that was the UAW contract agreement. Just think, with a Chapter 11, that entire document goes into the garbage and the managers and engineers take back control.
I thought our Teamster contract was bloated at 30 pages. I want a contract I can understand. I don't want to hire a stinking attorney to decipher what I am entitled to.
I am the first to advocate that contracts should be written in English...usually makes them shorter and easier for clients to understand...saves ME the time to explain each and every word to them 3 times ( ) and they STILL don't understand it...legalese contracts, IMO, are simply a memorial to a lawyer's ego...
On the reco of a previous poster of weeks ago, I just read John DeLorean's "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors"...not only was it on point in 1979, if it was released today, you would think he write it last month...with one exception...he has a nicer attitude toward the UAW than I do, but they had not gotten out of hand in 1979, whereas now they should be, and will be, disbanded...if a bailout does not cause it, the market will...they can make all the "green" vehicles they want...if no one buys them, they will simply die on the vine...even lemko cannot buy enough Caddys to keep them alive...:):):):):)
Also, good luck to rocky on his Saturn job...I hope it works out so you will stay current on your alimony and child support...:):):):):)
marsh7: On the reco of a previous poster of weeks ago, I just read John DeLorean's "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors"...not only was it on point in 1979, if it was released today, you would think he write it last month...with one exception...he has a nicer attitude toward the UAW than I do, but they had not gotten out of hand in 1979, whereas now they should be, and will be, disbanded
If anything, the union was probably more militant in the 1970s that it is today. The UAW strike against GM in 1970 was long, bitter and settled in the union's favor...of course, in the long run, the union paid a price for that victory, as a few of today's problems stem from what the union won in 1970.
Not too bad for a Non-Union Job. There is life after the UAW is put out of its misery.
It was UAW wages which paid the $1000 a month private prep school. That open up the doors and scholarships. Besides chemE is a difficult discipline and in high demand. He is an exception and not the norm. A large percentage of grads live at home after graduation as we were informed during freshman orientation. We rather he took less to start and stay close to home.
That only proves that if GM loads a vehicle with a lot of incentives, it can get rid of leftover models. If the CTS really were selling out, there wouldn't have been any leftover 2008 models to sell, and no need for GM to offer employee pricing.
Always a marketing ploy. Zero percent, employee pricing, red tags sale, and rebates are used to empty the dealers inventory of the prior years models. If you look at employee/supplier pricing, you see that its done in regions. Some regions don't fare as well as others. A smart man would wait for this time of the year to buy or lease. I was amazed at the percentage of new cars which are leased/smart buy leased. The Infinity dealer outright told me the 70% to 80% of their cars are leased. That was in Plano, Texas which is rather well to do suburb, Fact is that Plano has more Hummers per capita than any other city. Then Sewell Cadillac also claims most of the inventory is leased. Sure you can either drive a better car by leasing or you can make lower payments on the car you intended to buy, by leasing it. So is leasing for if you can't afford the payments or for upgrading with the same payment? As gas prices went up the residual on those SUV's took a beating in that the high fuel price wasn't factored into the future value/residual. A very costly miscalculation by those lenders.
One last note on lease returns. A CTS with the small six (not the 3.6) are all over the used car lots. Only an ignorant person would pay more than $15,000 for one. They are pricing them at $20,000 to bait fools.
I am the first to advocate that contracts should be written in English
First you have wording and then you have intent, which is only truly known by the parties at negotiations. Countless letters of agreement come into play as both parties seek clarification and or to amend. I have read many collective bargaining agreement which were more simplistic than lets say a golden chute CEO's contract/agreement.
The real problems lie with the grandfather clauses within different unions, retirees, exempt /non exempt, and other special circumstances. The Big Three have a master agreement and past practice agreements for different plants. It doesn't get any more simple.
Perhaps its easier to explain like this, you consolidate, buy a business unit, or add a plant. You first seek the economies of scale. One accounting dept, one benefits dept, and one of anything redundant. You negotiate these and have labor agree to do payroll/direct deposit from a centralize location. This centralize location must now know how to handle benefits for retirees from many plants and the contract amount which these folks retired upon and entitled medical benefits prevailing at the time of their retirement. All those redundant employees which were no longer needed because of the economies of scale and therefore terminated, took a wealth of knowledge with them. All this has nothing to do with the union, but rather the merger and occurs in union and non union situations. No different than no one taking the time to prepare for the year 2000 and then looking for patches.
Because that 50% is scattered among a bunch of low- and moderate-volume vehicles.
That's what I figured. There seems to be a conspiracy theory out there that they only produce 50% because they don't want to employ US workers. If you go from 100% production in Japan say, 20 years ago, you of course focus on your highest volume vehicles first. It's expensive to build plants. Toyota's latest foray was the truck plant in TX, and we know that has bitten them, as it has all large vehicle manufacturers. Your post points out that the next most voluminous vehicles are coming next.
First people complain about the Japanese makes manufacturing in this country, then 20 years later they say they're stilly trying to keep the import levels high when companies like Toyota are at 50% of their US volume made here! They can't win over the skeptics no matter what they do....
Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles? If it was so much cheaper they could just increase plant capacity by going to 3 shifts here in the states.
They intend to keep a manufacturing base. Employees for life. They want their own to be superior. They educate them and their families. Its a family business. You would not even believe what they think of non Japanese. I've seen it first hand. There is a Mazak plant near Ohio, but actually in Florance KY. This is the largest machine tool company in the world and they own it. China is getting a plant too, since they are the biggest customer. The plant in Japan enjoys three times the pay, for Japanese only. Outsiders are scum and to be used like non family.
They don't build more cars here because our government won't let them. It's called protectionism which apparently hasn't worked. Back in the 80's they were only allowed to import no more than 1 million vehicles per year. Since the demand was higher we (US) allowed them to build factories here and sell more vehicles. And the rest like they say is history.
Japanese are the most bigoted people on the planet. They don't even like other Asians. I don't even want to tell you what they think of other races.
Lemko, I think you have point. In college I had a Chinese and a Korean roommate (both immigrated to US). Neither had much good to say about Japanese and both drove domestic cars, one a Camaro and the latter a ratted out Cavalier. One thing that I took away from that experience was how determined they both were. While I took my studies seriously, I did blow off steam on the weekends, not those two, if they were awake, they were studying.
Funny. I have a couple co-workers who are Asian - two Chinese and one Korean. The Chinese guys drive a Chevrolet and a Plymouth respectively and the Korean guy has a Ford.
You know, I'm fine with Unions negotiating the very best deal they can for their memberships - however, when those contracts are in danger of putting the company or industry out of business, and the Union won't budge, they deserve to be decertified (through bankruptcy in this case) or if Management won't do that, the company and Management need to go down, and let the competition (Asian in this case) take over the market. The market will always win, regardless of intervention - the customer will win, and competition will prevail. You have to make sure you don't price yourselves (or your union or company) out of a job. For the life of me, since I'm no genius, I don't understand why the Unions don't get that.
We are approaching a place where, if you don't have a college education, then you have no rights to a job. I find that horrible, because America wasn't built, founded or discovered by college-educated people. While I understand the position regarding every person's ability to get a job that will allow financial growth, it fails to understand that evolving changes in the workforce require changes in educational requirements to get them. America is not the same country today as is was for its founders in the 18th century. Manual labor via agriculture or manufacturing was the driving force for the old economy. Today, the advent of technology and virtually no manufacturing jobs left in the States require "college-level" education and a paradigm shift in thinking just to be competetive in jobs that call for specialized training. While compassion should be the order while handling those who have lost well-paying manufacturing jobs, others need to be very realistic concerning earnings expectations. One simply cannot expect for any employer to pay a population of people that, more often than not, no longer have marketable skills and little education beyond high school. Yes, there are some success stories, but those numbers are minute given the pervasive problem of high unemployment, low education, crime, age, and health problems among too many others in that situation.
but those numbers are minute given the pervasive problem of high unemployment,
First off, 6.5% unemployment is not high. The late 1970s and early 80s was sometimes over 9%. We have millions of illegals taking jobs for cash that could be done by US citizens. If they were willing. These jobs many are in construction. Try to find a good carpenter when the housing boom was going full tilt up to last year.
Many here like to denigrate the many working for minimum wage or a bit more at places like WalMart. I can tell you if that stupid sign a union card bill passes and companies like WalMart get nailed, you will see some serious layoffs. There is no way WalMart can justify paying some 75 year old $10 an hour to say hi as you walk through the door. Or that handicapped person flattening boxes on the loading dock. With the stock market crash many elderly folks will be looking for a job this Christmas to pay their utility bills. Two of my retired neighbors are living from their deflated 401ks. The UAW workers are just one of a handful of Unions that still offer a fancy retirement with health benefits.
Is it worth it to the UAW to lose the last of their jobs, to greedily hang on to what they have?
First off, 6.5% unemployment is not high. The late 1970s and early 80s was sometimes over 9%. We have millions of illegals taking jobs for cash that could be done by US citizens. If they were willing. These jobs many are in construction. Try to find a good carpenter when the housing boom was going full tilt up to last year.
Obviously things aren't good right now and very well may get much worse before we see improvements, but I personally don't know anyone who's received pink a slip lately. During the early 80's, I was a young kid, but remember several family friends and relatives being laid off. My BIL got let go from his construction project manager job in Florida, but he found a better job within 2 mos earlier this year.
Hadn't heard much about it, but today on CNBC some guy said the economy today employs double the amount that the economy employed in the early 80's. Interesting.
You got to feel for the wealthy also. Bill Gates has dropped to 3rd place on the Forbes Richest people. Warren Buffett is number one. Some guy from Mexico #2 and 4 people from India are in the top 10. We only have two in the top ten. Also when we were not looking China passed up Japan and has twice the GDP of the former number 2. And they are not that far behind the Good Ole USA. We are getting close to owing 100% of our GDP.
Rank Country GDP 1 United States $11,750,000,000,000 2 China $7,262,000,000,000 3 Japan $3,745,000,000,000 4 India $3,319,000,000,000 5 Germany $2,362,000,000,000 6 United Kingdom $1,782,000,000,000 7 France $1,737,000,000,000 8 Italy $1,609,000,000,000 9 Brazil $1,492,000,000,000 10 Russia $1,408,000,000,000 11 Canada $1,023,000,000,000 12 Mexico $1,006,000,000,000 13 Spain $937,600,000,000 14 Korea, South $925,100,000,000 15 Indonesia $827,400,000,000
>dallasdude: During employee pricing weekend all of the 08 CTS's were sold
>That only proves that if GM loads a vehicle with a lot of incentives, it can get rid of leftover models. If the CTS really were selling out, there wouldn't have been any leftover 2008 models to sell, and no need for GM to offer employee pricing.
Which also proves MY point that if GM sells Cadillac Quality at Chevy prices, they can and will get a ton of customers. You cannot sell a Chevy Malibu at prices comparable to an accord to get customers coming back.
Section 301 of the Fair Trade Act allows tariffs/quotas if they just don't play fair. If they are 60 billion or more above each year, something is wrong. Motorola sued and won entry into the Japanese market. Why ever would a electronic mecca like Japan fear Motorola? Why do Japanese pay hundreds of dollars/yens for beef?
Which also proves MY point that if GM sells Cadillac Quality at Chevy prices, they can and will get a ton of customers. You cannot sell a Chevy Malibu at prices comparable to an accord to get customers coming back.
Oh please, both Honda and Toyota are offering zero percent right now. Cars just aren't flying off the lots. I'll agree that if you just want transportation Honda and Toyota are great. But if you want something that turns you on when you turn it on, CTS is by far superior. Its DNA/RNA is German. If you got the means, CTS - V is the state of the art. All of them offer high end stuff and low end junk. Just check out the Toyota Matrix forum here on Edmunds. Class action in Canada. Certainly a VETT is considered an excellent Chevy product?
I say quality, not the car itself. Toyota/Honda built a reputation of "reliable" cars when GM/FORD were smoking like a chimney on the roads or found dead on roadsides. What do these guys have to offer in order to woo the customers back to them? Reliability better than Toyota/Honda? Build Quality better than Toyota/Honda? It may be equivalent or close or maybe even a tad better. But that is no reason for a Toyota/Honda owner to move to GM/FORD. They need a valid reason to move over.
While compassion should be the order while handling those who have lost well-paying manufacturing jobs, others need to be very realistic concerning earnings expectations. One simply cannot expect for any employer to pay a population of people that, more often than not, no longer have marketable skills and little education beyond high school.
What is so bad in letting those folks go through attrition?
Comments
Absolutely correct that she doesn't appreciate the extent of that favor.
Daughter number tow is now on her permit. Back in April I bough myself a Celica convertible as a cheap toy for myself making us a four car three driver family for a while. I told my daughter that she and I can split the van and the Celica with her mostly getting the van. She's thrilled with that. Good kid.
As of mid-November, dealers had a 102-day supply of the CTS at the current sales rate (60 days of supply is considered optimal). It appears as though demand has been met.
I fear that Cadillac is in danger of becoming a good niche car only, if they can't diversify their product line better - instead, they are contracting it.
You've made this statement before, but it makes no business sense. Consider Honda, for example, which has been building cars here for almost 25 years."
Hopefully we will never have to find out. IF the suppliers do shut down in the US for up to one year(as reported by independent think tanks) everyone who can will import every vehicle they can sell. If anyone thinks otherwise I would like to hear why. Sure overall sales may plummet but if they can sell them they will import them. Remember Japan has been in the dumps longer than us and there is all kinds of unused capacity over there.
However if it makes so much sense to build here why does Toyota still import 50% of their vehicles from outside of NA? Yes, I can see them building here in the US vehicles they only sell here (trucks) but they import probably 65% of their cars. Why not run 3 shifts here and really get the plant productivity up?
Actually it would take awhile to get all the production over there because they do not have the capacity there to supply normal US production.
I realize it takes time to start-up a plant but if the reorg is done correctly, only the models that are selling need to be built. If you consider the nameplates of all 3, I would imagine there would be some models that would continue no matter what plan is approved. The problem is transitioning to smaller cars people will buy and the Government will mandate.
This is where decisions need to be made to stop production on a good number of nameplates that will not be in U.S. Auto Future!
Regards,
OW
I'd also expect to see Lexus vehicles built in & shipped from Japan for several years to come. Call 'em unpatriotic if you want, but U.S. Lexus buyers want to see "Made in Japan" on their cars, even though Toyota's North American plants could probably turn out cars of equal quality. In this respect, they're just like American buyers who avoid cars built in BMW's South African plant & insist on German-made cars.
Same reason GM doesn't have a Corvette factory in Europe or an Enclave factory in China.
My plan is to first make sure my son knows how to drive- think Street Survival and the BMW Performance Driving School. Then, if he has a job and needs a car for work or after school sports I'll HELP him buy a safe slug such as a Volvo 240 or maybe even an elderly 5er. If he goes a year without any at-fault accidents or tickets THEN we'll discuss a cooler ride. At 14 he's already saying he wants my Club Sport when he turns 16. I think not. Maybe the 2002, but not the Club Sport.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
This vehicle is selling at a reasonable pace; supply and demand are pretty well matched. The price reflects a fair price for both sides of the transaction, given good availability of the product.
Kelly Blue Book on the 2009 CTS
During employee pricing weekend all of the 08 CTS's were sold
Same reason GM doesn't have a Corvette factory in Europe or an Enclave factory in China."
Not sure your answer really answers the question. Why does Toyota still import only 50% of all their vehicles? If it was so much cheaper they could just increase plant capacity by going to 3 shifts here in the states.
I doubt GM would ever build a low volume vette in a different country. This would mean having double the tooling. Ah, perhaps that is why the Lexus's are imported since they are low volume and have little in common with the Toyota models (other than the ES). Still I believe they are importing quite a few Camrys and Corrollas?
If you have the means, get them a new sports car. Why do you want the headache of fixing old junk. My oldest went to a private prep school and his 2002 Z28 wasn't exactly the best car on the high school parking lot. He did his school work and earned a full scholarship, which included room and board. He will be a chemical engineer before the summer. He has already gotten offers as high as $80,000 a year to start.
Not too bad for a Non-Union Job. There is life after the UAW is put out of its misery.
I'd guess that they have models not set up to be produced in the US (I think the CRV is one of them, but not sure). Aren't they working on setting up a plant to produce Priuses in the US?
That's a good point. Looking at it on a micro scale, more production here would mean more employees. That could lead to wage pressures in areas where plants are located trying to employee more workers on a part time basis or even as full time. That might even lead to unionization by the UAW.
Also more production here would mean less money going back to the motherland. The reality is they are still Japanese companies and the money still goes home flowing through suppliers set up here or other routes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The prosperity of the '90s helped keep GM solidly profitable until the end of the decade, although it never reached Smith's target of a 5% net profit margin. He also kept shrinking the company (helped greatly by the spinoff of the Delphi parts-making unit). Total employment, which stood at 757,500 when Smith took over, had fallen to 388,000 by the time he left office. But Smith's elfin charm wasn't enough to stop warring factions among engineering, manufacturing, and design from undermining one another's work.
And Smith failed to address such looming problems as why GM still had divisions like Pontiac, Buick, and Oldsmobile. With its market share down to 30% and falling, it didn't need all those brands, and ensuring that each model was distinctive remained a constant headache. The problem of "look-alike cars," brilliantly revealed in a memorable 1985 Fortune cover photograph, continued to bedevil GM.
A prosperity built on gas guzzling SUVs and big PU trucks.
From a very good article on the demise of a once successful automaker.
Death of GM
That only proves that if GM loads a vehicle with a lot of incentives, it can get rid of leftover models. If the CTS really were selling out, there wouldn't have been any leftover 2008 models to sell, and no need for GM to offer employee pricing.
Because that 50% is scattered among a bunch of low- and moderate-volume vehicles. The biggest single chunk is the RAV4 (8% of October's volume) and the Prius (7.8%), both of which are set for North American production in the next few years. The next biggest after those are the Highlander (4.5%) and the Yaris (3.2%). Lexus was 10.7% and Scion was 4.4%. Camry (including the hybrid) was 20% by itself.
Not until I'm convinced he can handle one. I might get him a newer product of Munich or Stuttgartf after a year and a few HPDEs in the '02- I want him to actually learn how to drive without the assistance of intrusive electronic nannies.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Was watching a news program on cable recently on topic of unions. Guest showed the host a 2,200 page document (looked like 8.5x11 paper) that was the UAW contract agreement. Just think, with a Chapter 11, that entire document goes into the garbage and the managers and engineers take back control.
On the reco of a previous poster of weeks ago, I just read John DeLorean's "On a Clear Day You Can See General Motors"...not only was it on point in 1979, if it was released today, you would think he write it last month...with one exception...he has a nicer attitude toward the UAW than I do, but they had not gotten out of hand in 1979, whereas now they should be, and will be, disbanded...if a bailout does not cause it, the market will...they can make all the "green" vehicles they want...if no one buys them, they will simply die on the vine...even lemko cannot buy enough Caddys to keep them alive...:):):):):)
Also, good luck to rocky on his Saturn job...I hope it works out so you will stay current on your alimony and child support...:):):):):)
If anything, the union was probably more militant in the 1970s that it is today. The UAW strike against GM in 1970 was long, bitter and settled in the union's favor...of course, in the long run, the union paid a price for that victory, as a few of today's problems stem from what the union won in 1970.
It was UAW wages which paid the $1000 a month private prep school. That open up the doors and scholarships. Besides chemE is a difficult discipline and in high demand. He is an exception and not the norm. A large percentage of grads live at home after graduation as we were informed during freshman orientation. We rather he took less to start and stay close to home.
Always a marketing ploy. Zero percent, employee pricing, red tags sale, and rebates are used to empty the dealers inventory of the prior years models. If you look at employee/supplier pricing, you see that its done in regions. Some regions don't fare as well as others. A smart man would wait for this time of the year to buy or lease. I was amazed at the percentage of new cars which are leased/smart buy leased. The Infinity dealer outright told me the 70% to 80% of their cars are leased. That was in Plano, Texas which is rather well to do suburb, Fact is that Plano has more Hummers per capita than any other city. Then Sewell Cadillac also claims most of the inventory is leased. Sure you can either drive a better car by leasing or you can make lower payments on the car you intended to buy, by leasing it. So is leasing for if you can't afford the payments or for upgrading with the same payment?
As gas prices went up the residual on those SUV's took a beating in that the high fuel price wasn't factored into the future value/residual. A very costly miscalculation by those lenders.
One last note on lease returns. A CTS with the small six (not the 3.6) are all over the used car lots. Only an ignorant person would pay more than $15,000 for one. They are pricing them at $20,000 to bait fools.
First you have wording and then you have intent, which is only truly known by the parties at negotiations. Countless letters of agreement come into play as both parties seek clarification and or to amend. I have read many collective bargaining agreement which were more simplistic than lets say a golden chute CEO's contract/agreement.
The real problems lie with the grandfather clauses within different unions, retirees, exempt /non exempt, and other special circumstances. The Big Three have a master agreement and past practice agreements for different plants. It doesn't get any more simple.
Perhaps its easier to explain like this, you consolidate, buy a business unit, or add a plant. You first seek the economies of scale. One accounting dept, one benefits dept, and one of anything redundant. You negotiate these and have labor agree to do payroll/direct deposit from a centralize location. This centralize location must now know how to handle benefits for retirees from many plants and the contract amount which these folks retired upon and entitled medical benefits prevailing at the time of their retirement. All those redundant employees which were no longer needed because of the economies of scale and therefore terminated, took a wealth of knowledge with them. All this has nothing to do with the union, but rather the merger and occurs in union and non union situations. No different than no one taking the time to prepare for the year 2000 and then looking for patches.
That's what I figured. There seems to be a conspiracy theory out there that they only produce 50% because they don't want to employ US workers. If you go from 100% production in Japan say, 20 years ago, you of course focus on your highest volume vehicles first. It's expensive to build plants. Toyota's latest foray was the truck plant in TX, and we know that has bitten them, as it has all large vehicle manufacturers. Your post points out that the next most voluminous vehicles are coming next.
First people complain about the Japanese makes manufacturing in this country, then 20 years later they say they're stilly trying to keep the import levels high when companies like Toyota are at 50% of their US volume made here! They can't win over the skeptics no matter what they do....
They intend to keep a manufacturing base. Employees for life. They want their own to be superior. They educate them and their families. Its a family business. You would not even believe what they think of non Japanese. I've seen it first hand. There is a Mazak plant near Ohio, but actually in Florance KY. This is the largest machine tool company in the world and they own it. China is getting a plant too, since they are the biggest customer. The plant in Japan enjoys three times the pay, for Japanese only. Outsiders are scum and to be used like non family.
Back in the 80's they were only allowed to import no more than 1 million vehicles per year. Since the demand was higher we (US) allowed them to build factories here and sell more vehicles. And the rest like they say is history.
Lemko, I think you have point. In college I had a Chinese and a Korean roommate (both immigrated to US). Neither had much good to say about Japanese and both drove domestic cars, one a Camaro and the latter a ratted out Cavalier. One thing that I took away from that experience was how determined they both were. While I took my studies seriously, I did blow off steam on the weekends, not those two, if they were awake, they were studying.
First off, 6.5% unemployment is not high. The late 1970s and early 80s was sometimes over 9%. We have millions of illegals taking jobs for cash that could be done by US citizens. If they were willing. These jobs many are in construction. Try to find a good carpenter when the housing boom was going full tilt up to last year.
Many here like to denigrate the many working for minimum wage or a bit more at places like WalMart. I can tell you if that stupid sign a union card bill passes and companies like WalMart get nailed, you will see some serious layoffs. There is no way WalMart can justify paying some 75 year old $10 an hour to say hi as you walk through the door. Or that handicapped person flattening boxes on the loading dock. With the stock market crash many elderly folks will be looking for a job this Christmas to pay their utility bills. Two of my retired neighbors are living from their deflated 401ks. The UAW workers are just one of a handful of Unions that still offer a fancy retirement with health benefits.
Is it worth it to the UAW to lose the last of their jobs, to greedily hang on to what they have?
Obviously things aren't good right now and very well may get much worse before we see improvements, but I personally don't know anyone who's received pink a slip lately. During the early 80's, I was a young kid, but remember several family friends and relatives being laid off. My BIL got let go from his construction project manager job in Florida, but he found a better job within 2 mos earlier this year.
Hadn't heard much about it, but today on CNBC some guy said the economy today employs double the amount that the economy employed in the early 80's. Interesting.
What's usually left unsaid is how many people aren't counted because they have quit looking or because they are underemployed.
"If the autoworkers worked for no salary at all, it would cut just 5 percent off the cost of their cars." Smart Ways to a Bailout -- Step 1: Stop Demonizing the UAW
In case you missed it, the dealers and suppliers are knocking on DC's door along with the autoworkers:
'The Engine of Democracy' Coalition to Send Workers From 50 States to Washington to Support Auto Bridge Loans
Rank Country GDP
1 United States $11,750,000,000,000
2 China $7,262,000,000,000
3 Japan $3,745,000,000,000
4 India $3,319,000,000,000
5 Germany $2,362,000,000,000
6 United Kingdom $1,782,000,000,000
7 France $1,737,000,000,000
8 Italy $1,609,000,000,000
9 Brazil $1,492,000,000,000
10 Russia $1,408,000,000,000
11 Canada $1,023,000,000,000
12 Mexico $1,006,000,000,000
13 Spain $937,600,000,000
14 Korea, South $925,100,000,000
15 Indonesia $827,400,000,000
What happens if the EFCA goes through, and Japanese plants unionize, and the UAW says pay us the going (Big 3) rate or we strike??
Only a theory, and That'll never happen isn't an answer.
>That only proves that if GM loads a vehicle with a lot of incentives, it can get rid of leftover models. If the CTS really were selling out, there wouldn't have been any leftover 2008 models to sell, and no need for GM to offer employee pricing.
Which also proves MY point that if GM sells Cadillac Quality at Chevy prices, they can and will get a ton of customers. You cannot sell a Chevy Malibu at prices comparable to an accord to get customers coming back.
Oh please, both Honda and Toyota are offering zero percent right now. Cars just aren't flying off the lots. I'll agree that if you just want transportation Honda and Toyota are great. But if you want something that turns you on when you turn it on, CTS is by far superior. Its DNA/RNA is German. If you got the means, CTS - V is the state of the art. All of them offer high end stuff and low end junk. Just check out the Toyota Matrix forum here on Edmunds. Class action in Canada. Certainly a VETT is considered an excellent Chevy product?
Toyota - yeah, if you own a TV you can't get past their zero ads.
I assure you China plans to do just that.
What is so bad in letting those folks go through attrition?