I can understand why people would like the CTS, but the bottom line is that every one I've seen on the road - including the new version - is being driven by someone who looks like a traditional Cadillac customer.
Everyone I see driving a rice burner looks too poor to buy a Caddy. When i'm driving my 2002 Z28, they look like a blurr, I pass them so fast on the highway, its like they are standing still.
How about a CTS V and be sure to bring the pink slip. I munched a M4 just last week with a regular 3.6 CTS.
Wow, you sure do know your BMWs; there's no such thing as an M4. In any event, according to Edmunds the CTS V6 runs from 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds. Not counting the E30 M3, there has never been a US M car that took over 6 seconds to hit 60. My 1988 M6 took only 6 seconds flat. Dead stock. Even the 330i ZHP I'm considering can click off a 0 to 60 time of under six seconds. That said, where does the Cadillac owner's club conduct their HPDEs? With all the enthusiast drivers flocking to the CTS I'm sure that the Caddy boys must put on a lot more track events than the CCA.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
When i'm driving my 2002 Z28, they look like a blurr, I pass them so fast on the highway, its like they are standing still.
Better enjoy those GM cars while you can. Won't be long now. Toyota will probably take over the Corvette as they need a nice sports car. They have a few months to shed about 30% of their overhead. Even then they will not be guaranteed a bailout as Obama is not interested in small potatoes.
if GM wants people to move from the Accord/Camry, they should start selling Cadillac quality at Malibu prices.
Thats the plain Jane car market which the masses flock to. Just transportation. There are better rides out there which may only be a niche market, but they are the quality products which the auto makers should strive for. A 300 series BMW with an automatic is not too much fun to drive and just plain bland. The 96 Impala SS is a fine ride, the first year Chevy put the shifter on the console and the last year they made this car (rear wheel drive). The 2002 V8 camaro was also discontinued, just as they had gotten it right. Subaru WRX is a fine all wheel drive car. Cadillac Catera was not given a fair chance. The 700 series BMW, with the hight vision is a work of art. CTS and the last Silverado SS AWD trucks merit mentioning. Each manufacturer has come up with winners and losers. Most folks fail in doing their homework on this major purchase. Its second only to their home in the money they spend on their ride. Some cars are just fun to drive and take the boredom out of driving.
I can tell you the devastation in CA over the housing bubble is much worse than a few hundred thousand UAW workers losing their jobs.
Its going to be more like 2 million jobs tied to the Big Three. You can bet on there being more foreclosures and other jobs being effected as those who lose their jobs either pass on buying good and services, or shift to cheaper goods and services. this in no way fuels an already weak economy, but rather drives it deeper into a free fall. you seem to forget that these auto workers also buy goods and services, such as homes and cars. The suppliers and others are effected too. I'm not going to envy someone because he/she are well represented by the UAW and by no fault of their own are losing their employment. You seem to take pleasure in the auto workers and their families having to suffer hardships. These are hard working folks with families, dreams, and aspirations much like the rest of us. They work for their money and earn it in an honest manner. You seem to think that your better than others by some unknown rational in your own mind which justifies your being superior.
Sorry but I didn't mean to sound that way. You sound like one size car fits all and since camry was the best/most seller, we should all drive Camry's. Besides Rodman can play defense. Modonna and Carman Electra were his groupies .
You seem to take pleasure in the auto workers and their families having to suffer hardships.
Not at all. I see people around me every day that have lost their homes and jobs already. What disgusts me, is the UAW being unwilling to give some of their large contract back to save their company. Every time I was part of our contract negotiations we researched the health of the company and acted accordingly. The UAW members and leaders are TOO STUPID to see what they are doing to GM.
GM and their greedy employees do not deserve to be bailed out. Ford will make it without the bailout and gain a lot of GM market share. They are probably building a better truck than GM anyway. They for sure are building better large and small SUVs. They have not even made a case that would sway the socialist in Congress.
BMW and Mercedes pioneered this market. The 3-Series has been around since the 1970s, and the 190 series, predecessor to the C-Class, debuted in the early 1980s in Europe, and soon after in the U.S. This was before the introduction of Acura, Infiniti and Lexus, which debuted in the late 1980s and early 1990s.
When Maureen Totaro decided to buy her daughter a Mercedes for her 16th birthday, she worried what the neighbors would think. "I was embarrassed she'd look like a spoiled rich kid," she confesses. So before she turned over the keys, Totaro phoned the parents of several of her daughter's friends. She explained that the C230 model she bought Marissa starts at only $25,000.
Move over, rich guys. The kid bagging your groceries is now driving your wheels of fortune. It's not just Mercedes with its hatchback (the only Benz to come with cloth upholstery). In a quest for younger drivers and higher sales, many other stately luxury-car makers are rolling out models priced under $30,000. Jaguar, known for selling cars with six-figure stickers, recently introduced the $29,950 X-Type to go up against low-priced offerings from BMW and Lexus. All the new models are making luxury's low end the hottest spot in the U.S. auto market. Sales of "entry luxe" cars have soared 23 percent so far this year, while overall auto sales have fallen 4.3 percent. Budget-priced models now make up one third of the $63 billion luxury-car business and outpace sales of high-end SUVs. Coming in the next few years: tiny Beemers and Benzes that start at $20,000. Audi will roll out a small hatchback, while Volvo is designing a model based on Ford's Focus economy car.
What's driving the affordable-luxury trend? Catering to a clubby clientele just isn't enough anymore. "You don't make a business out of selling very exclusive cars in extraordinarily low numbers," says Mike O'Driscoll, head of Jaguar's U.S. operations, which expects the X-Type to nearly double annual sales to 75,000 cars. To puff up profits, luxury-car makers are putting their hood ornaments on some unusual models these days. Porsche will soon come out with an SUV, while Cadillac and Lincoln now sell pickups. But the real action is at the low end, where luxury brands are hoping to win over a new generation. For years BMW has done its best, luring young buyers with its $27,000 3 Series sports sedan and then pushing them up to the $50,000 5 Series and the $80,000 7 Series. Luxury-car makers aren't the only ones who've decided to invite more customers to the party. Everyone from Ralph Lauren to Tiffany is doing it. "There's been a tremendous democratization of luxury," says O'Driscoll.
But are the crown jewels of the auto industry risking becoming cheap imitations of themselves? Strip away too much leather and wood, and suddenly you may be selling little more than a Taurus with a fancy hood ornament.
Want to drive a luxury brand automobile but can't afford it? You might be surprised to find that many luxury brands (like BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and Lincoln) offer vehicles that start in the low 30s. Just by foregoing a few extras like a bigger engine and built-in GPS you could be driving a new luxury car for about the same as you'd expect to pay for a nice Toyota or Honda. It really comes down to deciding if the term "fully loaded" is really that important to you -- do you have to have that gas-guzzling V8? If the answer is 'no' then you suddenly have a lot more options.
Better enjoy those GM cars while you can. Won't be long now. Toyota will probably take over the Corvette as they need a nice sports car. They have a few months to shed about 30% of their overhead. Even then they will not be guaranteed a bailout as Obama is not interested in small potatoes.
Weren't you wrong about McCain being president? Its still 2008 and your on a roll.
""What is really sad is that GM does not own the jets they use. They sold them years ago to save money. They rent them as needed. " 62vettefp, Post 5247
"I'm sure with as much traveling a CEO for the big 3 does, a private/corporate jet saves a lot of time and maybe justified. It just doesn't look good flying in one to washington to beg for money. The last thing they needed to do was give the media soundbites on the issue. Maybe Waggoner should have called Mulally to hitch a ride. LOL. "
I am sure that would be suggested by the media but since the hearings were moved up one day I am sure they all were working hard on the plane to DC. IN fact it could be called collusion if they were on the same plane. They still are competitors.
"I'm sure with as much traveling a CEO for the big 3 does, a private/corporate jet saves a lot of time and maybe justified. It just doesn't look good flying in one to washington to beg for money. The last thing they needed to do was give the media soundbites on the issue. Maybe Waggoner should have called Mulally to hitch a ride. LOL. "
I am sure that would be suggested by the media but since the hearings were moved up one day I am sure they all were working hard on the plane to DC. IN fact it could be called calusion if they were on the same plane. They still are competitors.
I am sure that would be suggested by the media but since the hearings were moved up one day I am sure they all were working hard on the plane to DC. IN fact it could be called collusion if they were on the same plane. They still are competitors.
I was joking about the hitching a ride part. But after listening to Wagoner's statements, it didn't sound like he prepared at all.
I was very disappointed. But I looked around the room and saw all those important folks, many angry, looking down at him. He is a bit shy. Hard to talk to. Friendly, just reserved.
But I looked around the room and saw all those important folks, many angry, looking down at him. He is a bit shy. Hard to talk to. Friendly, just reserved.
No doubt they the CEO's were put on the spot. But it didn't even seem like Wagoner had a canned speech prepared.
When i'm driving my 2002 Z28, they look like a blurr,
Defective windows will do that. :P
If they really wanted to make their arrival in Washington say something they should have driven in new or better yet coming soon hybrids. Heck, Wagoner could have shown up in a Volt prototype.
I think they were so deep in Detroit think that it never occurred to them that the answer they got might be no. I think the testimony - especially that of Wagoner - hurt more than it helped.
To be fair they could not have picked a worse time to be in this pickle. Bush isn't high on the bailout and is perfectly happy to kick this down the road. The only approach he favors is freeing the retooling money and turning it into a no string attached gift. That is what will likely get passed in two weeks.
To be honest I was surprised they didn't work out something yesterday. I underestimated how much the Republicans are generally against this and they still have the power to shoot things down in the Senate.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Toyota will probably take over the Corvette as they need a nice sports car.
Toyota had the Supra, one of the worlds best sports cars. They didn't think that it sold enough units and did away with it. Too much of a niche market and not enough profit. This is the reason people are labeling Toyota as bland in their offerings.
Well, the media can't agree about the jets either.
"GM, which leases its planes rather than owning them, once had seven planes and eliminated two planes in December, and will cut two more soon." azcentral.com
Now, what the heck does that mean? They lease their planes but still have five?
As Imidazol97 says, it's more of a diversion from the bigger issues. At $5,000 an hour, the shareholders really don't expect these guys to cool their heels at the bus station for a couple of hours reading Newsweek.
Gettelfinger: "the issue had become "a distraction, unfortunately... It just seems odd to us that we can help the financial institutions in this country, that we can offer incentives to our competitors to come here to compete against us, but at the same time, we're willing to walk away from an industry that is the backbone of our economy." Detriot Free Press
When i'm driving my 2002 Z28, they look like a blurr,
Defective windows will do that.
So will over 300 HP. I'm thinking that you would like the Tata made in India, $2500 econo-box, for the masses. $7500 price tag to get USA ready. Perish the thought. its like a moped next to a Harley.
These incentives are nothing but tax money, which will be borne by the taxpayers in the end. So what is the difference between bail out money and incentives (foregone tax money) given to large corporations? Incentives may be looked upon as a bribe to sweeten the decision process by a business. Now lets say that China, with its abundance of money, were to lure corporations overseas to attract jobs. And suppose some of these were the very ones that are now located in Alabama. Then that Alabama representative would change his tune. Something tells me that this is not the competition which America wants or of any benefit to the consumer.
> I don't know what the two posters know about running large companies, but one poster pointed out that GM doesn't own any private jets; indeed they rent them.
Well, certainly I don't know, but as a small business owner, I do realize that when I go to a Bank for a loan, I need to have a business plan to impress the lenders, not a Mercedes SL500 :sick:
Those articles don't refute my point that BMW and Mercedes were in the entry-level luxury/sport sedan market before Acura, Infiniti and Lexus were introduced in this country.
BMW and Mercedes didn't introduce the 3-Series and C-Class, respectively, in response to the Japanese moving upscale. The Japanese were chasing them.
"There is a huge difference between Asia and here when it comes to the top executive compensation," says Han Kim, a professor of business administration at the University of Michigan. "Rarely in Asia, especially Japan and Korea, do the CEOs get paid more than a million dollars.....Toyota's top executive, Hiroshi Okuda, earned $903,000 in 2006. ...compare that to Ford's new CEO, Alan Mulally, got $27.8 million in salary and bonus in his first few months on the job, including an $18.5 million signing bonus."
>I think our problem isn't the transportation to DC for the executives, but rather the media itself. After the election I feel this more and more. Here it shows. The media should go after facts--like the pay of the executives compared to the Japanese. Or the pay of the UAW highest paid (NOT the new employees at the NEW rate).
With BMW, it has never been the numbers game. It's focus is always on the experience, driving feel. Getting the highest acceleration or the most g's...nah
I wouldn't rely on youtube (or wikipedia) for automotive insight. There's no such thing as an M4, and I dare anyone to present any official BMW material that shows such a model name exists or existed. There was once rumor of an M4 coupe, but nothing aside from drawings was ever produced.
To sit in front of Congress and ask for $25B (which was planned to be their first installment, I'm sure) without a detailed plan and fall-back plans was a huge mistake.
Not anything new regarding the usual business making decision capabilities of the current industry. I loved when Wagoner and Mulally answered the question regarding reduced PERSONAL compensation: Wagoner said " I am not prepared to address that at this time". Mulally said: " No, I'm good."
Hilarious!
Now the UAW will support a plan for solvency. Like I said, EVERYTHING is on the table. At least the decision to delay was a decent one..not great but decent. Let's see what stipulations need to be met according to Congress' plan.
MB and BMW had lowline cars before the Japanese luxo-marques were mere glimmers in their mom's eye. Really, these cars go back to the roots of the company, as neither were particularly luxurious upon inception. 50 years ago, the normal MB or BMW had no amenities compared to an American land yacht. These makes have always had lowline cars. I will question the foreign automotive heritage knowledge of Keith Naughton.
I suspect that there will be a lot of folks working for the Big 3 who won't see their families over Thanksgiving, since the deadline is 2 December.
Ford, in my opinion, seems to be the closest to having a strategy mapped out. Perhaps that is because they are the only one to have made a significant change in their management structure in the past year or so, bringing on board a CEO who has been there and done that in terms of turning companies around. Bringing over European models (but made locally, unlike the Astra and G8) is a step in the right direction. Yes, they will still continue to build trucks and SUV's - the market demands that they do, just not in the numbers of the past.
Nardelli? He got ran out of his job at Home Depot.
Wagoner? He does not strike me as the right man for the job of turning GM around
This is the plan that would make the most sense. Hopefully, this will happen.
U.S. President-Elect Barack Obama is said to be considering a ‘prepackaged bankruptcy’ plan for the Detroit Three automakers. Prepackaged bankruptcy is a strategy whereby a detailed plan for restructuring and creditor settlements are established before a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is initiated. Settlements with creditors and renegotiation of contracts takes place out of court, ahead of the actual proceedings.
A prepackaged bankruptcy can be completed quickly, and avoids the potential chaos and uncertainty of a Chapter 11 filing. It’s sometimes viewed as a ‘best of both worlds’ solution, because it provides the benefits of bankruptcy with a predetermined plan for the company’s survival. The strategy would enable GM to eliminate the union obligations that make it uncompetitive, say proponents.
“It creates the environment to deal with GM’s problems but limits government financial commitment,” bankruptcy lawyer Mark Bane of Ropes & Gray in New York told Bloomberg.
James Harris, President of Seneca Financial Group in New York, said a ‘prepack’ deal combined with a small amount of financial aid from the government — rather than $25 billion — is the most logical path.
“I look at the Democrats that say these businesses are very important to the economy, and I agree with that, so the logical step is a prepack,” Harris told the financial publication.
Obama’s eloquent way with words might also enable him to explain such a strategy to the American people, thereby preventing a massive drop in sales.
Ford and General Motors have repeatedly said traditional bankruptcy is not an option, because consumer surveys show people would not buy a car from a bankrupt company. But a prepackaged bankruptcy facilitated by the U.S. government could allow GM to continue operating and instill a sense of confidence in investors and consumers.
"Hello....nobody said closure. We are talking reorganization / restructuring. Do you think restructuring will result in 2 million jobs lost??"
I guess we really do not know, but many in the business feel that if any go into chapter 11 all 3 do. And if they do it is believed that the public will not buy from a company in bankruptcy. Sales will plummet taking the auto suppliers with them.
The same suppliers supply the domestically built imports and therefore the experts (CAR-Center for Automotive Research) says auto production will come to a standstill throughout the US. This will drive the loss in jobs everywhere.
Now the above is what CAR says they believe will happen.
Now we can just not believe the experts but it sure does sound dire.
And in my extra opinion the day the US plants shut down the importers will just start importing vehicles from overseas because they have their own suppliers (negligible exports from US). The plants here will probably stay shut for years keeping the home plants in business. There will be no real reason to build vehicles in the US unless the dollar ratio makes it more economical.
"Ford, in my opinion, seems to be the closest to having a strategy mapped out."
They all have them mapped out. It is not something you can just discuss in a public forum. Need to sit down and see all the issues. Big issue is where our country will be next year. 10 million sales? 12 million? 8 million?
These are key factors on why Wagoner could not give a good answer on how much is needed. If sales went back up to 15 million GM would not need much. If 5 million then the burn rate is horrendous.
So the big 3 go to DC with their proposals, some government financial expert works out what is needed, and all parties do what DC says.
Current Pensions (hourly/salaried) transferred to the government future pensions (hourly) transferred to the government (or go to 401 like most salaried already has) No healthcare coverage (already gone for all retired salaried, hourly pay their own w/o domestics VEBA payments) No bonus's (already gone) Top execs base pay cut 30% Hourly pay cut to $45/hour w/few beni's (hey UAW supported Obama) Job banks gone Sell the jets (already being sold) Government officials on boards Government given stock in all 3 companies Current stock owners allowed to keep stock with no dividends(already gone) until profitable and government paid off. GM allowed to kill 3 brands with no dealer franchise issues.
For all those who think the shrinking suppliers won't be a major factor, we've been through this already in this part of the midwest. For those saying that they get what they deserve, that's not a good attitude. It affects more people than just the bigwigs and the part of the UAW some love to hate.
We currently have an SUV plant closing in December. The suppliers who are just-in-time in the area are announcing the layoffs and closings. After losing many GM (Delco and Delphi) plants along with Chrysler through the years, now we lose the non-UAW truck assembly plant.
I have to laugh at that. The poetic justice is the plan that Obama is floating to see how the winds blow cuts the UAW... They supported him heavily along with organized labor in this area, what's left of it.
>GM allowed to kill 3 brands with no dealer franchise issues.
And in my extra opinion the day the US plants shut down the importers will just start importing vehicles from overseas because they have their own suppliers (negligible exports from US). The plants here will probably stay shut for years keeping the home plants in business. There will be no real reason to build vehicles in the US unless the dollar ratio makes it more economical.
You've made this statement before, but it makes no business sense. Consider Honda, for example, which has been building cars here for almost 25 years. Why would Honda anger current & potential customers & sever longstanding supplier relationships when the cost benefit would be negligible at best? Wages in Japan are among the world's highest, & if Japanese brands consolidate all of their production there, shipping charges will climb sharply. Some of the larger cars (the North American version of the Accord comes to mind) are built here because they aren't sold in large numbers anywhere else. If you shut down North American production of these models, you'll probably have to build new plants elsewhere. How does that pay?
It would make more sense for foreign brands to cherry-pick by buying up the most modern of the Big Three plants & then shutting down older plants at home. It wouldn't surprise me if some German auto executives are thinking along these lines; German auto workers are the world's most expensive. In comparison, non-union U.S. workers are a screaming bargain.
Comments
Everyone I see driving a rice burner looks too poor to buy a Caddy. When i'm driving my 2002 Z28, they look like a blurr, I pass them so fast on the highway, its like they are standing still.
CTS stands for Catera Touring Sedan. The Catera is still made in Germany by Opel and comes in a four, six, and VETT eight. Its called an Omega.
Wow, you sure do know your BMWs; there's no such thing as an M4. In any event, according to Edmunds the CTS V6 runs from 0 to 60 in 6.5 seconds. Not counting the E30 M3, there has never been a US M car that took over 6 seconds to hit 60. My 1988 M6 took only 6 seconds flat. Dead stock. Even the 330i ZHP I'm considering can click off a 0 to 60 time of under six seconds. That said, where does the Cadillac owner's club conduct their HPDEs? With all the enthusiast drivers flocking to the CTS I'm sure that the Caddy boys must put on a lot more track events than the CCA.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Better enjoy those GM cars while you can. Won't be long now. Toyota will probably take over the Corvette as they need a nice sports car. They have a few months to shed about 30% of their overhead. Even then they will not be guaranteed a bailout as Obama is not interested in small potatoes.
Thats the plain Jane car market which the masses flock to. Just transportation. There are better rides out there which may only be a niche market, but they are the quality products which the auto makers should strive for. A 300 series BMW with an automatic is not too much fun to drive and just plain bland. The 96 Impala SS is a fine ride, the first year Chevy put the shifter on the console and the last year they made this car (rear wheel drive). The 2002 V8 camaro was also discontinued, just as they had gotten it right. Subaru WRX is a fine all wheel drive car. Cadillac Catera was not given a fair chance. The 700 series BMW, with the hight vision is a work of art. CTS and the last Silverado SS AWD trucks merit mentioning. Each manufacturer has come up with winners and losers. Most folks fail in doing their homework on this major purchase. Its second only to their home in the money they spend on their ride. Some cars are just fun to drive and take the boredom out of driving.
Its going to be more like 2 million jobs tied to the Big Three. You can bet on there being more foreclosures and other jobs being effected as those who lose their jobs either pass on buying good and services, or shift to cheaper goods and services. this in no way fuels an already weak economy, but rather drives it deeper into a free fall. you seem to forget that these auto workers also buy goods and services, such as homes and cars. The suppliers and others are effected too. I'm not going to envy someone because he/she are well represented by the UAW and by no fault of their own are losing their employment. You seem to take pleasure in the auto workers and their families having to suffer hardships. These are hard working folks with families, dreams, and aspirations much like the rest of us. They work for their money and earn it in an honest manner. You seem to think that your better than others by some unknown rational in your own mind which justifies your being superior.
Sorry but I didn't mean to sound that way. You sound like one size car fits all and since camry was the best/most seller, we should all drive Camry's. Besides Rodman can play defense. Modonna and Carman Electra were his groupies .
Not at all. I see people around me every day that have lost their homes and jobs already. What disgusts me, is the UAW being unwilling to give some of their large contract back to save their company. Every time I was part of our contract negotiations we researched the health of the company and acted accordingly. The UAW members and leaders are TOO STUPID to see what they are doing to GM.
GM and their greedy employees do not deserve to be bailed out. Ford will make it without the bailout and gain a lot of GM market share. They are probably building a better truck than GM anyway. They for sure are building better large and small SUVs. They have not even made a case that would sway the socialist in Congress.
When Maureen Totaro decided to buy her daughter a Mercedes for her 16th birthday, she worried what the neighbors would think. "I was embarrassed she'd look like a spoiled rich kid," she confesses. So before she turned over the keys, Totaro phoned the parents of several of her daughter's friends. She explained that the C230 model she bought Marissa starts at only $25,000.
Move over, rich guys. The kid bagging your groceries is now driving your wheels of fortune. It's not just Mercedes with its hatchback (the only Benz to come with cloth upholstery). In a quest for younger drivers and higher sales, many other stately luxury-car makers are rolling out models priced under $30,000. Jaguar, known for selling cars with six-figure stickers, recently introduced the $29,950 X-Type to go up against low-priced offerings from BMW and Lexus. All the new models are making luxury's low end the hottest spot in the U.S. auto market. Sales of "entry luxe" cars have soared 23 percent so far this year, while overall auto sales have fallen 4.3 percent. Budget-priced models now make up one third of the $63 billion luxury-car business and outpace sales of high-end SUVs. Coming in the next few years: tiny Beemers and Benzes that start at $20,000. Audi will roll out a small hatchback, while Volvo is designing a model based on Ford's Focus economy car.
What's driving the affordable-luxury trend? Catering to a clubby clientele just isn't enough anymore. "You don't make a business out of selling very exclusive cars in extraordinarily low numbers," says Mike O'Driscoll, head of Jaguar's U.S. operations, which expects the X-Type to nearly double annual sales to 75,000 cars. To puff up profits, luxury-car makers are putting their hood ornaments on some unusual models these days. Porsche will soon come out with an SUV, while Cadillac and Lincoln now sell pickups. But the real action is at the low end, where luxury brands are hoping to win over a new generation. For years BMW has done its best, luring young buyers with its $27,000 3 Series sports sedan and then pushing them up to the $50,000 5 Series and the $80,000 7 Series. Luxury-car makers aren't the only ones who've decided to invite more customers to the party. Everyone from Ralph Lauren to Tiffany is doing it. "There's been a tremendous democratization of luxury," says O'Driscoll.
But are the crown jewels of the auto industry risking becoming cheap imitations of themselves? Strip away too much leather and wood, and suddenly you may be selling little more than a Taurus with a fancy hood ornament.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/153540
Want to drive a luxury brand automobile but can't afford it? You might be surprised to find that many luxury brands (like BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, and Lincoln) offer vehicles that start in the low 30s. Just by foregoing a few extras like a bigger engine and built-in GPS you could be driving a new luxury car for about the same as you'd expect to pay for a nice Toyota or Honda. It really comes down to deciding if the term "fully loaded" is really that important to you -- do you have to have that gas-guzzling V8? If the answer is 'no' then you suddenly have a lot more options.
http://www.luxist.com/2008/10/21/lux-tip-drive-a-luxury-car-for-less/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGFI9Nkd0Q
Weren't you wrong about McCain being president? Its still 2008 and your on a roll.
62vettefp,
Post 5247
Apology accepted at any time... "
Sorry again for the misinfo.
I am sure that would be suggested by the media but since the hearings were moved up one day I am sure they all were working hard on the plane to DC. IN fact it could be called collusion if they were on the same plane. They still are competitors.
I am sure that would be suggested by the media but since the hearings were moved up one day I am sure they all were working hard on the plane to DC. IN fact it could be called calusion if they were on the same plane. They still are competitors.
I was joking about the hitching a ride part. But after listening to Wagoner's statements, it didn't sound like he prepared at all.
No doubt they the CEO's were put on the spot. But it didn't even seem like Wagoner had a canned speech prepared.
Defective windows will do that. :P
If they really wanted to make their arrival in Washington say something they should have driven in new or better yet coming soon hybrids. Heck, Wagoner could have shown up in a Volt prototype.
I think they were so deep in Detroit think that it never occurred to them that the answer they got might be no. I think the testimony - especially that of Wagoner - hurt more than it helped.
To be fair they could not have picked a worse time to be in this pickle. Bush isn't high on the bailout and is perfectly happy to kick this down the road. The only approach he favors is freeing the retooling money and turning it into a no string attached gift. That is what will likely get passed in two weeks.
To be honest I was surprised they didn't work out something yesterday. I underestimated how much the Republicans are generally against this and they still have the power to shoot things down in the Senate.
Toyota had the Supra, one of the worlds best sports cars. They didn't think that it sold enough units and did away with it. Too much of a niche market and not enough profit. This is the reason people are labeling Toyota as bland in their offerings.
"GM, which leases its planes rather than owning them, once had seven planes and eliminated two planes in December, and will cut two more soon." azcentral.com
Now, what the heck does that mean? They lease their planes but still have five?
As Imidazol97 says, it's more of a diversion from the bigger issues. At $5,000 an hour, the shareholders really don't expect these guys to cool their heels at the bus station for a couple of hours reading Newsweek.
Gettelfinger: "the issue had become "a distraction, unfortunately... It just seems odd to us that we can help the financial institutions in this country, that we can offer incentives to our competitors to come here to compete against us, but at the same time, we're willing to walk away from an industry that is the backbone of our economy." Detriot Free Press
Defective windows will do that.
So will over 300 HP. I'm thinking that you would like the Tata made in India, $2500 econo-box, for the masses. $7500 price tag to get USA ready. Perish the thought. its like a moped next to a Harley.
http://www.corporations.org/welfare/globe3.html
http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1991/04/lapp.html
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well, certainly I don't know, but as a small business owner, I do realize that when I go to a Bank for a loan, I need to have a business plan to impress the lenders, not a Mercedes SL500 :sick:
BMW and Mercedes didn't introduce the 3-Series and C-Class, respectively, in response to the Japanese moving upscale. The Japanese were chasing them.
enough said....
Read post#5302
link title
Hello....nobody said closure. We are talking reorganization / restructuring. Do you think restructuring will result in 2 million jobs lost??
I agree with that....
Not anything new regarding the usual business making decision capabilities of the current industry. I loved when Wagoner and Mulally answered the question regarding reduced PERSONAL compensation: Wagoner said " I am not prepared to address that at this time". Mulally said: " No, I'm good."
Hilarious!
Now the UAW will support a plan for solvency. Like I said, EVERYTHING is on the table. At least the decision to delay was a decent one..not great but decent. Let's see what stipulations need to be met according to Congress' plan.
Is this great reality TV or what??
Regards,
OW
Isn't that what got them into this mess?
Regards,
OW
Actually, I own three, and I'll probably add a fourth one in the very near future
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Ford, in my opinion, seems to be the closest to having a strategy mapped out. Perhaps that is because they are the only one to have made a significant change in their management structure in the past year or so, bringing on board a CEO who has been there and done that in terms of turning companies around. Bringing over European models (but made locally, unlike the Astra and G8) is a step in the right direction. Yes, they will still continue to build trucks and SUV's - the market demands that they do, just not in the numbers of the past.
Nardelli? He got ran out of his job at Home Depot.
Wagoner? He does not strike me as the right man for the job of turning GM around
Actually, I'm thinking more along the lines of an M Isetta:
:surprise: :P :surprise:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
U.S. President-Elect Barack Obama is said to be considering a ‘prepackaged bankruptcy’ plan for the Detroit Three automakers. Prepackaged bankruptcy is a strategy whereby a detailed plan for restructuring and creditor settlements are established before a Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is initiated. Settlements with creditors and renegotiation of contracts takes place out of court, ahead of the actual proceedings.
A prepackaged bankruptcy can be completed quickly, and avoids the potential chaos and uncertainty of a Chapter 11 filing. It’s sometimes viewed as a ‘best of both worlds’ solution, because it provides the benefits of bankruptcy with a predetermined plan for the company’s survival. The strategy would enable GM to eliminate the union obligations that make it uncompetitive, say proponents.
“It creates the environment to deal with GM’s problems but limits government financial commitment,” bankruptcy lawyer Mark Bane of Ropes & Gray in New York told Bloomberg.
James Harris, President of Seneca Financial Group in New York, said a ‘prepack’ deal combined with a small amount of financial aid from the government — rather than $25 billion — is the most logical path.
“I look at the Democrats that say these businesses are very important to the economy, and I agree with that, so the logical step is a prepack,” Harris told the financial publication.
Obama’s eloquent way with words might also enable him to explain such a strategy to the American people, thereby preventing a massive drop in sales.
Ford and General Motors have repeatedly said traditional bankruptcy is not an option, because consumer surveys show people would not buy a car from a bankrupt company. But a prepackaged bankruptcy facilitated by the U.S. government could allow GM to continue operating and instill a sense of confidence in investors and consumers.
Regards,
OW
I guess we really do not know, but many in the business feel that if any go into chapter 11 all 3 do. And if they do it is believed that the public will not buy from a company in bankruptcy. Sales will plummet taking the auto suppliers with them.
The same suppliers supply the domestically built imports and therefore the experts (CAR-Center for Automotive Research) says auto production will come to a standstill throughout the US. This will drive the loss in jobs everywhere.
Now the above is what CAR says they believe will happen.
http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=935684
Now we can just not believe the experts but it sure does sound dire.
And in my extra opinion the day the US plants shut down the importers will just start importing vehicles from overseas because they have their own suppliers (negligible exports from US). The plants here will probably stay shut for years keeping the home plants in business. There will be no real reason to build vehicles in the US unless the dollar ratio makes it more economical.
They all have them mapped out. It is not something you can just discuss in a public forum. Need to sit down and see all the issues. Big issue is where our country will be next year. 10 million sales? 12 million? 8 million?
These are key factors on why Wagoner could not give a good answer on how much is needed. If sales went back up to 15 million GM would not need much. If 5 million then the burn rate is horrendous.
So the big 3 go to DC with their proposals, some government financial expert works out what is needed, and all parties do what DC says.
Current Pensions (hourly/salaried) transferred to the government
future pensions (hourly) transferred to the government (or go to 401 like most salaried already has)
No healthcare coverage (already gone for all retired salaried, hourly pay their own w/o domestics VEBA payments)
No bonus's (already gone)
Top execs base pay cut 30%
Hourly pay cut to $45/hour w/few beni's (hey UAW supported Obama)
Job banks gone
Sell the jets (already being sold)
Government officials on boards
Government given stock in all 3 companies
Current stock owners allowed to keep stock with no dividends(already gone) until profitable and government paid off.
GM allowed to kill 3 brands with no dealer franchise issues.
What did I miss?
We currently have an SUV plant closing in December. The suppliers who are just-in-time in the area are announcing the layoffs and closings. After losing many GM (Delco and Delphi) plants along with Chrysler through the years, now we lose the non-UAW truck assembly plant.
>Hourly pay cut to $45/hour w/few beni's (hey UAW supported Obama)
I have to laugh at that. The poetic justice is the plan that Obama is floating to see how the winds blow cuts the UAW... They supported him heavily along with organized labor in this area, what's left of it.
>GM allowed to kill 3 brands with no dealer franchise issues.
Good.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
You've made this statement before, but it makes no business sense. Consider Honda, for example, which has been building cars here for almost 25 years. Why would Honda anger current & potential customers & sever longstanding supplier relationships when the cost benefit would be negligible at best? Wages in Japan are among the world's highest, & if Japanese brands consolidate all of their production there, shipping charges will climb sharply. Some of the larger cars (the North American version of the Accord comes to mind) are built here because they aren't sold in large numbers anywhere else. If you shut down North American production of these models, you'll probably have to build new plants elsewhere. How does that pay?
It would make more sense for foreign brands to cherry-pick by buying up the most modern of the Big Three plants & then shutting down older plants at home. It wouldn't surprise me if some German auto executives are thinking along these lines; German auto workers are the world's most expensive. In comparison, non-union U.S. workers are a screaming bargain.