If you can get 51% of the workers to sign a card the NLRB will certify the UAW to represent all the workers. Then the fun begins. A contract still has to be reached. If Toyota will not agree to Big 3 type contracts an arbitrator is brought in. What happens then is anyone's guess. With the new contracts at the Big 3 I am not sure the Toyota workers will get as much as they are getting now. Then if it is in a Right to Work state you may get half the workers signed up to pay dues and not the other half. Yet all will get the benefits in the contract. There is nothing wrong with the current law that allows for an NLRB election with secret ballots. I have been part of two such elections and was not threatened or fired. I would not work for a company that threatened me to start with. Only someone desperate for a job would work for such a company. I could have worked and stabbed my way up the corporate ladder and made more money. I preferred the simple life with a good retirement. Sadly not many jobs are left like that except in the government.
EFCA is BAD for America and the workers freedom...
All car dealers are trying to dump old inventory. Just got this ad today from my MB dealer. No diesels, No deal for me. $30,000 off a CL600 is a nice bit of change for most of US right now.
I don't know. We are talking about cars not phones or beef.
Protectionism was what you mentioned. For Japan to want access to markets and free trade to champion the consumer is what all of us as consumers would want. This requires that both sides allow free trade/open markets. Then the consumer wins. I understand that govt get pressure to protect special interest at the cost of the consumer. However, these special interests and lobby's need to give in for the greater good. Free markets mean more competition and more choice. To exclude and or put up barriers/hurdles on certain companies, steals from the consumer. Housing, followed by cars are large ticket items and ignoring the rest of all the goods and services is like stealing from the most efficient producer of these goods and services.
TOKYO (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co (7267.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) will lower auto loan rates in the United States to help stem a slide in U.S. car sales but will not follow rivals into zero-percent financing, its chief financial officer said on Tuesday. "We're not planning any zero-percent financing," Yoichi Hojo told Reuters in an interview a day after Honda recorded a 25 percent drop in U.S. sales for October.
Hojo said, however, that Honda would offer lower financing rates of 1.9 percent from around 2.9 percent previously. Honda began offering the reduced rate on the popular Civic late last month, he said.
"Our inventory level for the Civic is still on the low side, but competition is heating up dramatically," he said.
Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) has extended a zero-percent financing offer it had launched in October and backed by a high-profile ad campaign aimed at capitalizing on the relative strength of its financing arm.
Nissan Motor Co (7201.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) launched its own zero-percent offer for November and December, saying the financing deal would help its own results move higher from October levels.
U.S. sales plunged 32 percent to a 25-year-low of a seasonally adjusted annualized rate of just under 10.6 million vehicles in October. (Reporting by Chang-Ran Kim; editing by Sophie Hardach)
We do have tariffs. And stupid ones at that. Ever wonder why you don't see any PU trucks from Japan or Germany. It is called the Chicken Tax. It was implemented in 1963 to protect the US automakers from competition selling PU trucks. As a result we do not have any high mileage small PU trucks for sale in this country. No one wants to pay 25% tax to sell a truck built abroad. Most tariffs come about from one country or another imposing an import tax. The consumer is the one that suffers.
Lots of those folks on Skid Row who have lost all ambition and self respect are ex CEO's. If they couldn't manage a corporation, so they certainly couldn't manage that golden parachute and all of their ill-gotten gains. So they just wander and wonder where did they go wrong? From the penthouse to the dog house. Such is life. I'm thinking about setting up a relief trust fund for these fallen titans of industry. The hard core Skid Row indigenous population has all but ostricized this new breed of pauper. They are a social pariah within these circles and have a hard time fitting in. Anyone interested in contributing and or taking in one of these misfits contact me.
What did that one reporter say. The last time he saw DeLorean he was sitting on a park bench in Central Park. I would take him in just for the stories he could tell.
That is old news. Most of the claimants never changed their oil. The original oil filters were still in the car. I worked an arbitration case for a Toyota dealer back in the late 90 when the sludge debacle started. There was a 95 Toyota Avalon on the rack. 25K miles, oil never been changed. Original filter still on the engine. Engine manifold removed, you could literally scoop the gelled oil with a spoon and it had the texture of pudding. Same thing with a few Siennas, and Lexus RX. Big difference is Toyota Motor Sales usa stepped to the plate and replaced the engines at no charge to the customers and extended their warranties. Same with Honda's transmissions. What the media prints and what actually goes on at the Corporate level are two quite different things.
Most of the claimants never changed their oil. The original oil filters were still in the car
That's not the way I remember it, and I also heard that Toyota changed the oil passages to make the oil flow a bit easier. Plus they lowered the oil change interval to 5,000 miles in the US. Toyota Engine Sludge
None of which is on topic in here though, unless the union was engineering the engines.
When is the last time GM, Chrysler or Ford did something like that?
I just responded to your post in another thread where you were defending the bailout for GM and the Big 3. You were saying that the UAW workers were not over paid. Yet you just posted here that you have never bought a Big 3 vehicle. The whole mess at especially GM is being blamed on overweight contracts that are burying them.
Do you think that Toyota would be a better automaker if they were tied down with UAW contracts? Do you think all those Toyota vehicles you bought would be superior if built by $30 per hour UAW workers vs $25 per hour non union workers?
"....I can say I have not had one single vehicle affected by the so called sludge. This is an old story and it's water under the bridge."
All I can say to that is HAAAAAAAAAA haaaaaaaa haaaaa. OLD STORY......WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE.... HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
How many people here are complaining about their union built (yes, shameless title plug) Big 3 cars that they claim were a POS from 25 YEARS AGO, and you import fanboys wave this around as a banner of "union incompetence", yet the sludge problem which is affecting cars ON THE ROAD TODAY is WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE????
>That's not the way I remember it, and I also heard that Toyota changed the oil passages to make the oil flow a bit easier.
Yes. The way I see it, because I do have a 1999 ES300(110K) and 2001 RX300 (90K), is that the oil passages are such that they are not tolerant to any misuse/abuse. If you changed oil every 5000 miles, there would be no problems.
>(no more sludge please, unless it's the kind you're scraping out of your turkey pan today)
I'm not saying Toyota and the UAW would be a bad combination. I think it has to do with making contracts and promises built on future profitability that has buried GM and to a lessor degree Ford & Chrysler. Supposedly the 1990s were good years for GM. Yet they never broke 5% net profit. That is not enough to stay in business. Losing $72 billion over the last 4 years when the country was booming up till late last year, is pure and simple poor management.
If Toyota were to be tied to the same kind of losing UAW contracts they would be asking for a bailout. In 1998 when the UAW got greedy and struck GM, the management should have locked the workers out and closed up the US operations. They could have quit winners. Now they will go down in history as a footnote in automotive history.
Yet they never broke 5% net profit. That is not enough to stay in business.
"The profit margins of large U.S. companies have ranged between roughly 5.5 percent and 7.5 percent" from 1955 to 2006. Hussman Funds
GM's goal back in the mid-90s was 5 percent, but they didn't make it (or maybe they made that in a few quarters here and there). Motley Fool.
Toyota is having problems with the meltdown, although they are in better shape than most others. Their credit rating was recently cut a couple of notches for the first time in a decade. The sales slump is affecting the Japanese electronics industry. And Toyota's union workers in Thailand are worried. Bangkok Post
That is exactly my point. If GM could not break 5% in the 1990s SUV boom, how are they going to be profitable selling the VOLT at a loss? Union and non-union workers are rioting all over the World. Rocky is not buying enough Chinese toys for his kids this Christmas. :sick:
DONGGUAN, China (AP) - It started as a pay dispute at a southern Chinese toy factory. But it quickly turned into a riot as laid-off workers tapped into a network of friends and unemployed laborers who flipped over a police car, stormed into the plant and smashed office computers.
You've must have me confused with someone else. Not one post have I stated that I'm for a bailout of GM and I thought GM is part of the big 3. I also did not say the UAW were overpaid. I said their overall compensation package is excessive but as far as their hourly wage I don't think it's out of line with the other manufacturers. So please read my posts twice if you have to to understand what I write. Don't try to put words in my mouth. About the only thing you wrote that was correct was that I have never bought a big 3 vehicle. My parents did until they wised up and bought their first Toyota. I might consider the Ford Fusion IF the quality is as good as they say and with the current incentives they are a steal IMHO. I might have to wait for quite a long time before one of my Camrys craps the bed before that happens. I won't even respond to your last statement about Toyota since it's irrelevant to what I wrote. Enjoy your turkey and I hope the Cowboys win!
I also did not say the UAW were overpaid. I said their overall compensation package is excessive but as far as their hourly wage I don't think it's out of line with the other manufacturers.
By defending the UAW wages, I assumed you wanted to bail them out. It is very complicated as the companies can make the wage package seem what it may not be. The media has pegged the UAW package at about $75 per hour. What all is included is hard to say. If they are including future health care for when the employee retires that could be a lot of money. Paying health care for those over 65 is a big waste of money. The UAW has to take a good look at the direction they are headed. They have lost over 2/3rds of their auto workers since the 1970s.
If the UAW takes down the entire domestic auto industry with their greed. It will be on their shoulders. If all I knew is installing lug nuts on new cars, I would do some serious thinking about getting some other trade skills.
That is exactly my point. If GM could not break 5% in the 1990s SUV boom, how are they going to be profitable selling the VOLT at a loss?
It wasn't until 2000 and a half that GM redesigned the Tahoe/Yukon and started production of the Suburban in Mexico. Ford was making over $10,000 per unit on their Expedition. Each Ford employee was given a computer and other perks. The SUV was the American Dream at that time. GM a thin sheet metal pick up faux SUV. They later built the state of the art honey comb factory to cash in on that market. Unfortunately, those SUV's which have been traded in are limited in their market. Seems that they are what shows up at garage sales these days in Texas.
The Mexico Suburban was the lemon of the year in 2000 and about 5/6 years later the SUV of the year. I think you call it a learning curve.
I would do some serious thinking about getting some other trade skills.
If we all thought that way, no one would pick the fruits and vegetables, no one would clean or provide housekeeping services (imagine the restrooms), you couldn't get served a meal in a restaurant, and all the other little creature comforts we take for granted. Lug nuts is a honest living and no shame in a person wanting to provide for themselves and their families. Even the least of us need to be treated with dignity and respect. I, for one, will stand up for the rights of the underclass and refuse to slob on the knob of the privileged elite.
I think gagrice means that things aren't going so well right now for the UAW. Perhaps they should consider another trade to delve in to seriously or get their timbers up for some college training. Don't just sit there drinking Starbucks and eating raspberry jelly donuts like some overpaid dorky executive at Boeing and feel like you can name your price or call your own shots.
Suck it up and get some different training and be quick about it. Not UAW speed, Gary Payton speed after he's stolen the ball one more time from Kobe Bryant and he's racing down for another two for the Sonic's, eh?
"I would do some serious thinking about getting some other trade skills."
If we all thought that way, no one would pick the fruits and vegetables, no one would clean or provide housekeeping services (imagine the restrooms), you couldn't get served a meal in a restaurant, and all the other little creature comforts we take for granted.
There will always be some people who don't think that way. That's why we still have fruit pickers and housekeepers. If there weren't so many illegals you'd see the housekeeping and fruit picking salaries go somewhat higher. The market adjusts.
For the UAW, their contracts have artificially inflated their salaries vs. what the market will bear. That is not sustainable as the D3 are finding out. Bailing them out just adds a bit of time but the trend is obvious. Even the D3 have been building most of their new facilities outside the US.
Is it worth it to the UAW to lose the last of their jobs, to greedily hang on to what they have?
Not to the actual workers - but the leadership of the UAW is corrupt, and thrive on the fear of their incitable union base, telling them they are bringing evil management to their knees.....I've yet to meet a rank and file union member who understands that their own management is just as corrupt as the management of the company that gives them their jobs, and doesn't actually have their best interests at heart.
The only jobs the UAW leadership is really interested in preserving are their own.
If the UAW takes down the entire domestic auto industry with their greed.
Was it the UAW who took down the banking industry? Is the UAW responsible for your turkey being over cooked? All I see here is scapegoating. All this nations woes can't be put on the UAW. The collective bargaining of labor has fueled consumerism and done more good for the middle class than any other. Our standard of living is due to unions and even those non union folks benefit from the hard battles which unions have prevailed in.
We need to remember the steel mills and those who endured hardship prior to unions. This country enjoys the largest middle class in the history of civilization.
As the wise man of the GOP said it.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.
huh? Labor before profits and actual sustainability of the Company? Umm...then we're all missing something here. The UAW and their inflated needs are more important than the sustainability of GM, Ford and Chry-Cer-sler-berus.
Amazing comment from a very polarizing figure in American History. I can't find any articles relating to it, but there were some rumblings that Toyota would try to cut wages at their plants to keep their financial advantage over the Big 3 after they signed their labor agreements last year.
It wasn't until 2000 and a half that GM redesigned the Tahoe/Yukon and started production of the Suburban in Mexico.
You like to avoid the issue. GM has not made 5% profit in any year over the last two decades. Even if Ford was giving away free laptops, GM was still a sub standard Fortune 500 company. The average as posted by Steve over the last 50 years varied from 5.5% to 7.5% for the Fortune 500. GM did not come close to the average over the last 20 years. The UAW all but shut GM down in 1998 due to UAW GREED. This is while their company was not making squat for profit. I call that STUPID UNION TACTICS. The UAW deserves to rot in you know where for bleeding the company they work for down to nothing. I am not forgiving Management. They should have gotten tough in 98 and locked the workers out and moved the plants to a location that has people wanting to work not strike over their donuts being cold.
Was it the UAW who took down the banking industry?
Again you are avoiding the issue at hand with off the wall irrelevancy. I think if GM is still alive when BO takes office, he will want to know how the UAW plans to help GM solve their problems.
g wrote : "Again you are avoiding the issue at hand with off the wall irrelevancy. I think if GM is still alive when BO takes office, he will want to know how the UAW plans to help GM solve their problems. " As you know I tend to agree with your posts, and this is no exception. But cost : benefit analysis suggests that a bailout. Dare we call it a loan ? May be the lesser of the weevils. Yes I do realize. Non recoveralable unemployment benefits and the expansion of the credit crunch as securitized loans go kaput and insurers of such perhaps as well ( insert bailout here) . What a wicked web we weave indeed! So the dollars out far outway the dollars in. But as to the Uaw, How do we accomplish their demise ? Bankruptcy does not even appear to do it. And the current administration..... House Republicans sorry but 132 makes me have to call them out, Main street, Wall street, last week of September, first week October 700b looking cheap now huh ?. Ya idjits. Try taking a business course for CE. Financial hysteria so difficult to put out. Best suggestion, never let it take root. Note : intentional. Friggin lawyers.
Without getting in the middle of a war here, I would simply like to point out that the big three are NOT playing on a level playing field in the auto industry. Virtually ALL foreign manufacturers have nationalized health care, and that includes the unionized US plants. Honda and Toyota have 80% of their US employees health care paid for by the Japanese government.
In short, the big three are not just competing with other manufacturers, they are competing with other countries. GM alone spent over $5 Billion on health care last year.
Honda and Toyota have 80% of their US employees health care paid for by the Japanese government.
That is the first I have heard of that. Do you have any data to back that claim up? Yes that would be a reason to consider the playing field less than level. Japan is in much worse condition financially than the US, even with our current rounds of printing money without anything to back it up. That would be something the Big 3 could take to the bailout hearings, if it is true.
>" Honda and Toyota have 80% of their US employees health care paid for by the Japanese government. "
Taking your word for that.
Even at that, the total wage and bennefits package for the Japanese mfg worker is still about half that of the UAW worker. That was brought out during the B3 Bail Out hearings, as well as being reported on the news.
Seems ridiculous to me that the UAW workers still draw 95% of their pay during model changes and so forth, and then get paid vacations also.
Why not let the vacation time be during the plant idle times. Other companies do that. That way they have a full work force while the plant is in operation. Also wouldn't be necessary to have as many "stand by" people to cover for vacationing workers.
This is serious business. A "You Bet Your Company" and "Your Livelihood" business.
Time for UAW to start contributing toward their own future rather than their demise.
it's too late for GM. They're toast, the UAW and their Starbuck's coffee and warm raspberry jelly donut work ethic has come up behind them like Gary Payton ready to pick Kobe Bryant clean once again.
They're gone. A bailout, loan or what-have-you won't turn the GM-Titanic around before it hits that inconsequential iceberg of South Korean, Japanese, German and now Italian-French cars(wonder which rig I'm talking about here)carmakers.
Too late. Chev is even talking about jacking up the price of the Volt to $43,000 USD? Umm...three times stupid in a pile of wrenches, nuts, bolts and tooling jigs.
Someone tell me how they think the UAW-GM can recover from this? They're bleeding cash daily!! And nobody I read of has a plan, their management doesn't have a plan.
They're just interested in making sure that jelly donut is clean and available for them with a fresh cup of coffee. Paid for from the "friendly, ever-flowing coffers."
A carmaker like GM doesn't deserve my business. And no I'm not sorry, either.
My 2003 Denali is not water under the bridge for me either. The "Professional Grade" repair record is at $3,600 at 65K miles. Hardly an incentive for me to believe in GM and the UAW labor model.
In business, if your costs exceed your ability to make a profit selling a top grade product, you reduce the costs but make sure quality does not suffer. The UAW model is broken along with the management capability to see past the trees in the forest. Bad business model = failed business.
Fair enough. But does that mean that if you owned a sludged up 2001 Toyota and had to fork over $5,000 for a new engine it would not be water under the bridge???
No, you are correct. If it was me, I would judge it on the merit of the repair and how I was treated to fix the problem.
In my case with the Denali, the Dealer was on Strike Three and I invoked Lemon Law papers to GM...then all at once, GM Technical phoned the dealer and worked through a solution for the MAP sensor failure. This was very close to the need of warranty guidelines and if it happend after, would have been $900 hit to me.
See, I don't fool around with the dealer. I'm not satisfied, I go elsewhere. If that doesn't work, a call to the district office helps move things along.
Here is some news that puts non-union (UAW-type) advantage back deep into the water.
Industry/General CEO says BMW in “biggest crisis in its history;” rivals have similar concerns
BMW, which has seen it sales double since 1999, is now in the “biggest crisis in its history,” CEO Norbert Reithofer told Germany’s Spiegel. Like all automakers, BMW’s sales have been hit hard by the financial crisis, but the company’s reliance on leasing for a large percentage puts it in an even more vulnerable position.
Reithofer isn’t alone in his sentiment. Daimler boss Dieter Zetsche admitted the situation could easily be the “worst crisis since World War II.” If that’s the case, expect more job cuts and production slowdowns at Mercedes and BMW.
Even Volkswagen, which has a much broader brand and model mix, is concerned about its future. “We have never before seen this kind of a crisis,” chairman Martin Winterkorn said. He said it would be impossible for his company to avoid “difficult cuts” and “painful” measures.
According to the New York Times, luxury cars from BMW and Mercedes are beginning to pile up at U.S. ports. But they aren’t the only ones. Literally thousands of Toyota and Nissan models have filled acres of land at the port in Long Beach, California. In fact, Mercedes, Toyota and Nissan have requested to lease additional space at a 160-acre lot to park their slow-selling cars.
Recently, Toyota Executive Vice President Mitsuo Kinoshita characterized the current situation as “an emergency, of a magnitude we have never seen before.”
So is any automaker immune to the economic collapse in America, Europe, and Asia? Simply put: no. After all, Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Toyota are usually thought of as the most stable automakers in the world. Their survival will depend entirely on their ability to quickly adapt to slowing sales. Without the same rigid union and legacy costs of the Detroit Three, we’re hopeful they’ll all pull through.
No shortage of buyers for cheap Chinese junk this Christmas. What would you put in a contract to avoid this kind of tragedy? So much for me getting a job as a WalMart Greeter.
A Wal-Mart worker died after being trampled when hundreds of shoppers smashed through the doors of a Long Island store Friday morning, police and witnesses said.
The 34-year-old worker, employed as an overnight stock clerk, tried to hold back the unruly crowds just after the Valley Stream store opened at 5 a.m.
Witnesses said the surging throngs of shoppers knocked the man down. He fell and was stepped on. As he gasped for air, shoppers ran over and around him.
GM has not made 5% profit in any year over the last two decades.
Thats the role of management to take care of the shareholders first and above all else. The UAW is first charged with taking care of its members first and above all else.
Roger Bonham Smith (born July 12, 1925) was the Chairman and CEO of General Motors from 1981 to 1990. Born in Columbus, Ohio, Smith earned his MBA at the University of Michigan Business School after serving in the United States Navy. He worked his way up the GM financial management team to become corporate treasurer in 1970, vice president of finance in 1971, executive vice president for finance and public relations, and a member of the board of directors in 1974.
Roger Smith seemed to be the last of the old-line GM Chairmen, a conservative, anonymous bureaucrat, resisting change. However, propelled by industry and market conditions, Smith oversaw some of the most fundamental change in GM's history, although his tenure is commonly viewed as a failure. When Smith took over GM, it was reeling from its first annual loss since the early 1920s. Its reputation had been tarnished by lawsuits, persistent quality problems, bad labor relations, public protests over the installation of Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles and by a poorly designed diesel engine. Smith made sweeping changes at GM, which was losing market share to foreign automakers for the first time. He instituted several initiatives that included forming strategic joint ventures with Japanese and Korean automakers, launching the Saturn division, investing heavily in technological automation and robotics, and attempting to rid the company of its risk-averse bureaucracy. Smith's transformation failed to earn consistent profits for GM, while its share of the US market fell from 46% to 35%.
In 1982 Smith negotiated contract concessions with the United Auto Workers and cut planned raises for white-collar workers. After unveiling a more generous bonus program for top executives provoked an angry response from the union, Smith was forced to back-pedal. Relations with the UAW, management, and stockholders remained strained. Profits improved in 1983 and Smith began unveiling his vision for reorganization, diversification, and "reindustrialization."
After GM's massive lay-offs hit Flint, Michigan, a strike began at the General Motors parts factory in Flint on June 5, 1998, which quickly spread to five other assembly plants and lasted seven weeks. Because of the significant role GM plays in the United States, the strikes and temporary idling of many plants noticeably showed in national economic observations.
That's disgusting. Welfare mongers, no doubt. And for what, 5 $199 TV's??? I'll tell ya, there's nothing I'm so hard up for that I couldn't get online, at my leisure.
"The plants that don't unionize will be the secret to the successful companies!"
BMW, UPS, and even the Southwest Airlines pilots shot that out of the water , just to name a few.
That's because (gasp!) Southwest actually has GOOD relationships with its unions. And last I recall even the pilots pitched in to clean planes. No stupid work rules
Perhaps the UAW could survive if they became a lot more flexible.
I guess what I am reading in your article this problem of over paying UAW workers is more like 3 decades.
I agree that it is managements responsibility to make a profit. And it is the Union leaders responsibility to do what is best for the workers. When you lead workers on a strike against a company that is not making a profit you are basically signing a death warrant for those workers. The most recent strikes come to mind. GM was bleeding red ink and one of only a couple vehicles were selling. So what do the stupid UAW workers do? They strike the only plants that are building vehicles anyone wants. They were striking over NOTHING. If you took a legitimate poll across the USA. I can bet the UAW is considered the problem by at least 80% of the population outside Detroit. UAW workers are not going to get any sympathy from the tradesmen that are out of work. Most around here were lucky to get $20 per hour with NO benefits.
Comments
If you can get 51% of the workers to sign a card the NLRB will certify the UAW to represent all the workers. Then the fun begins. A contract still has to be reached. If Toyota will not agree to Big 3 type contracts an arbitrator is brought in. What happens then is anyone's guess. With the new contracts at the Big 3 I am not sure the Toyota workers will get as much as they are getting now. Then if it is in a Right to Work state you may get half the workers signed up to pay dues and not the other half. Yet all will get the benefits in the contract. There is nothing wrong with the current law that allows for an NLRB election with secret ballots. I have been part of two such elections and was not threatened or fired. I would not work for a company that threatened me to start with. Only someone desperate for a job would work for such a company. I could have worked and stabbed my way up the corporate ladder and made more money. I preferred the simple life with a good retirement. Sadly not many jobs are left like that except in the government.
EFCA is BAD for America and the workers freedom...
http://www.efcaexposed.com/?gclid=CNiPx6e4lJcCFRJxxwodFUcoeA
Protectionism was what you mentioned. For Japan to want access to markets and free trade to champion the consumer is what all of us as consumers would want. This requires that both sides allow free trade/open markets. Then the consumer wins. I understand that govt get pressure to protect special interest at the cost of the consumer. However, these special interests and lobby's need to give in for the greater good. Free markets mean more competition and more choice. To exclude and or put up barriers/hurdles on certain companies, steals from the consumer. Housing, followed by cars are large ticket items and ignoring the rest of all the goods and services is like stealing from the most efficient producer of these goods and services.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/toyota_engine.html
A five year lawsuit and 3.5 million engines later
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002/04/04/toyota-sludge.htm
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/honda_transmission.html
Angry honda owners?
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/daily-news/080502-Angry-Owners-- Force-Honda-to-Fix-Their-Cars/
http://www.autosafety.org/transmissions-prompt-large-honda-recall
TOKYO (Reuters) - Honda Motor Co (7267.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) will lower auto loan rates in the United States to help stem a slide in U.S. car sales but will not follow rivals into zero-percent financing, its chief financial officer said on Tuesday. "We're not planning any zero-percent financing," Yoichi Hojo told Reuters in an interview a day after Honda recorded a 25 percent drop in U.S. sales for October.
Hojo said, however, that Honda would offer lower financing rates of 1.9 percent from around 2.9 percent previously. Honda began offering the reduced rate on the popular Civic late last month, he said.
"Our inventory level for the Civic is still on the low side, but competition is heating up dramatically," he said.
Toyota Motor Corp (7203.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) has extended a zero-percent financing offer it had launched in October and backed by a high-profile ad campaign aimed at capitalizing on the relative strength of its financing arm.
Nissan Motor Co (7201.T: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) launched its own zero-percent offer for November and December, saying the financing deal would help its own results move higher from October levels.
U.S. sales plunged 32 percent to a 25-year-low of a seasonally adjusted annualized rate of just under 10.6 million vehicles in October. (Reporting by Chang-Ran Kim; editing by Sophie Hardach)
What the media prints and what actually goes on at the Corporate level are two quite different things.
That's not the way I remember it, and I also heard that Toyota changed the oil passages to make the oil flow a bit easier. Plus they lowered the oil change interval to 5,000 miles in the US. Toyota Engine Sludge
None of which is on topic in here though, unless the union was engineering the engines.
Regards,
OW
I just responded to your post in another thread where you were defending the bailout
for GM and the Big 3. You were saying that the UAW workers were not over paid.
Yet you just posted here that you have never bought a Big 3 vehicle. The whole mess
at especially GM is being blamed on overweight contracts that are burying them.
Do you think that Toyota would be a better automaker if they were tied down with
UAW contracts? Do you think all those Toyota vehicles you bought would be superior
if built by $30 per hour UAW workers vs $25 per hour non union workers?
(no more sludge please, unless it's the kind you're scraping out of your turkey pan today).
All I can say to that is HAAAAAAAAAA haaaaaaaa haaaaa. OLD STORY......WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE.... HAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
How many people here are complaining about their union built (yes, shameless title plug) Big 3 cars that they claim were a POS from 25 YEARS AGO, and you import fanboys wave this around as a banner of "union incompetence", yet the sludge problem which is affecting cars ON THE ROAD TODAY is WATER UNDER THE BRIDGE????
What a LOAD OF S......er BUNK!
Yes. The way I see it, because I do have a 1999 ES300(110K) and 2001 RX300 (90K), is that the oil passages are such that they are not tolerant to any misuse/abuse. If you changed oil every 5000 miles, there would be no problems.
>(no more sludge please, unless it's the kind you're scraping out of your turkey pan today)
Sorry Steve. Read this after I posted.
If Toyota were to be tied to the same kind of losing UAW contracts they would be asking for a bailout. In 1998 when the UAW got greedy and struck GM, the management should have locked the workers out and closed up the US operations. They could have quit winners. Now they will go down in history as a footnote in automotive history.
"The profit margins of large U.S. companies have ranged between roughly 5.5 percent and 7.5 percent" from 1955 to 2006. Hussman Funds
GM's goal back in the mid-90s was 5 percent, but they didn't make it (or maybe they made that in a few quarters here and there). Motley Fool.
Toyota is having problems with the meltdown, although they are in better shape than most others. Their credit rating was recently cut a couple of notches for the first time in a decade. The sales slump is affecting the Japanese electronics industry. And Toyota's union workers in Thailand are worried. Bangkok Post
That is exactly my point. If GM could not break 5% in the 1990s SUV boom, how are they going to be profitable selling the VOLT at a loss? Union and non-union workers are rioting all over the World. Rocky is not buying enough Chinese toys for his kids this Christmas. :sick:
DONGGUAN, China (AP) - It started as a pay dispute at a southern Chinese toy factory. But it quickly turned into a riot as laid-off workers tapped into a network of friends and unemployed laborers who flipped over a police car, stormed into the plant and smashed office computers.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D94MPOJG0&show_article=1
I won't even respond to your last statement about Toyota since it's irrelevant to what I wrote.
Enjoy your turkey and I hope the Cowboys win!
By defending the UAW wages, I assumed you wanted to bail them out. It is very complicated as the companies can make the wage package seem what it may not be. The media has pegged the UAW package at about $75 per hour. What all is included is hard to say. If they are including future health care for when the employee retires that could be a lot of money. Paying health care for those over 65 is a big waste of money. The UAW has to take a good look at the direction they are headed. They have lost over 2/3rds of their auto workers since the 1970s.
If the UAW takes down the entire domestic auto industry with their greed. It will be on their shoulders. If all I knew is installing lug nuts on new cars, I would do some serious thinking about getting some other trade skills.
It wasn't until 2000 and a half that GM redesigned the Tahoe/Yukon and started production of the Suburban in Mexico. Ford was making over $10,000 per unit on their Expedition. Each Ford employee was given a computer and other perks. The SUV was the American Dream at that time. GM a thin sheet metal pick up faux SUV. They later built the state of the art honey comb factory to cash in on that market. Unfortunately, those SUV's which have been traded in are limited in their market. Seems that they are what shows up at garage sales these days in Texas.
The Mexico Suburban was the lemon of the year in 2000 and about 5/6 years later the SUV of the year. I think you call it a learning curve.
If we all thought that way, no one would pick the fruits and vegetables, no one would clean or provide housekeeping services (imagine the restrooms), you couldn't get served a meal in a restaurant, and all the other little creature comforts we take for granted. Lug nuts is a honest living and no shame in a person wanting to provide for themselves and their families. Even the least of us need to be treated with dignity and respect. I, for one, will stand up for the rights of the underclass and refuse to slob on the knob of the privileged elite.
Suck it up and get some different training and be quick about it. Not UAW speed, Gary Payton speed after he's stolen the ball one more time from Kobe Bryant and he's racing down for another two for the Sonic's, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
If we all thought that way, no one would pick the fruits and vegetables, no one would clean or provide housekeeping services (imagine the restrooms), you couldn't get served a meal in a restaurant, and all the other little creature comforts we take for granted.
There will always be some people who don't think that way. That's why we still have fruit pickers and housekeepers. If there weren't so many illegals you'd see the housekeeping and fruit picking salaries go somewhat higher. The market adjusts.
For the UAW, their contracts have artificially inflated their salaries vs. what the market will bear. That is not sustainable as the D3 are finding out. Bailing them out just adds a bit of time but the trend is obvious. Even the D3 have been building most of their new facilities outside the US.
Not to the actual workers - but the leadership of the UAW is corrupt, and thrive on the fear of their incitable union base, telling them they are bringing evil management to their knees.....I've yet to meet a rank and file union member who understands that their own management is just as corrupt as the management of the company that gives them their jobs, and doesn't actually have their best interests at heart.
The only jobs the UAW leadership is really interested in preserving are their own.
Was it the UAW who took down the banking industry? Is the UAW responsible for your turkey being over cooked? All I see here is scapegoating. All this nations woes can't be put on the UAW. The collective bargaining of labor has fueled consumerism and done more good for the middle class than any other. Our standard of living is due to unions and even those non union folks benefit from the hard battles which unions have prevailed in.
We need to remember the steel mills and those who endured hardship prior to unions. This country enjoys the largest middle class in the history of civilization.
As the wise man of the GOP said it.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." Lincoln's First Annual Message to Congress, December 3, 1861.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
BMW, UPS, and even the Southwest Airlines pilots shot that out of the water , just to name a few.
You like to avoid the issue. GM has not made 5% profit in any year over the last two decades. Even if Ford was giving away free laptops, GM was still a sub standard Fortune 500 company. The average as posted by Steve over the last 50 years varied from 5.5% to 7.5% for the Fortune 500. GM did not come close to the average over the last 20 years. The UAW all but shut GM down in 1998 due to UAW GREED. This is while their company was not making squat for profit. I call that STUPID UNION TACTICS. The UAW deserves to rot in you know where for bleeding the company they work for down to nothing. I am not forgiving Management. They should have gotten tough in 98 and locked the workers out and moved the plants to a location that has people wanting to work not strike over their donuts being cold.
Was it the UAW who took down the banking industry?
Again you are avoiding the issue at hand with off the wall irrelevancy. I think if GM is still alive when BO takes office, he will want to know how the UAW plans to help GM solve their problems.
"Again you are avoiding the issue at hand with off the wall irrelevancy. I think if GM is still alive when BO takes office, he will want to know how the UAW plans to help GM solve their problems. "
As you know I tend to agree with your posts, and this is no exception. But cost : benefit analysis suggests that a bailout. Dare we call it a loan ? May be the lesser of the weevils. Yes I do realize. Non recoveralable unemployment benefits and the expansion of the credit crunch as securitized loans go kaput and insurers of such perhaps as well ( insert bailout here) . What a wicked web we weave indeed! So the dollars out far outway the dollars in. But as to the Uaw,
How do we accomplish their demise ? Bankruptcy does not even appear to do it. And the current administration.....
House Republicans sorry but 132 makes me have to call them out, Main street, Wall street, last week of September, first week October 700b looking cheap now huh ?. Ya idjits. Try taking a business course for CE. Financial hysteria so difficult to put out. Best suggestion, never let it take root. Note : intentional. Friggin lawyers.
In short, the big three are not just competing with other manufacturers, they are competing with other countries. GM alone spent over $5 Billion on health care last year.
That is the first I have heard of that. Do you have any data to back that claim up? Yes that would be a reason to consider the playing field less than level. Japan is in much worse condition financially than the US, even with our current rounds of printing money without anything to back it up. That would be something the Big 3 could take to the bailout hearings, if it is true.
Taking your word for that.
Even at that, the total wage and bennefits package for the Japanese mfg worker is still about half that of the UAW worker. That was brought out during the B3 Bail Out hearings, as well as being reported on the news.
Seems ridiculous to me that the UAW workers still draw 95% of their pay during model changes and so forth, and then get paid vacations also.
Why not let the vacation time be during the plant idle times. Other companies do that. That way they have a full work force while the plant is in operation. Also wouldn't be necessary to have as many "stand by" people to cover for vacationing workers.
This is serious business. A "You Bet Your Company" and "Your Livelihood" business.
Time for UAW to start contributing toward their own future rather than their demise.
Kip
They're gone. A bailout, loan or what-have-you won't turn the GM-Titanic around before it hits that inconsequential iceberg of South Korean, Japanese, German and now Italian-French cars(wonder which rig I'm talking about here)carmakers.
Too late. Chev is even talking about jacking up the price of the Volt to $43,000 USD? Umm...three times stupid in a pile of wrenches, nuts, bolts and tooling jigs.
Someone tell me how they think the UAW-GM can recover from this? They're bleeding cash daily!! And nobody I read of has a plan, their management doesn't have a plan.
They're just interested in making sure that jelly donut is clean and available for them with a fresh cup of coffee. Paid for from the "friendly, ever-flowing coffers."
A carmaker like GM doesn't deserve my business. And no I'm not sorry, either.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
So I bought a Honda 2 weeks ago!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
In my case with the Denali, the Dealer was on Strike Three and I invoked Lemon Law papers to GM...then all at once, GM Technical phoned the dealer and worked through a solution for the MAP sensor failure. This was very close to the need of warranty guidelines and if it happend after, would have been $900 hit to me.
Regards,
OW
Industry/General
CEO says BMW in “biggest crisis in its history;” rivals have similar concerns
BMW, which has seen it sales double since 1999, is now in the “biggest crisis in its history,” CEO Norbert Reithofer told Germany’s Spiegel. Like all automakers, BMW’s sales have been hit hard by the financial crisis, but the company’s reliance on leasing for a large percentage puts it in an even more vulnerable position.
Reithofer isn’t alone in his sentiment. Daimler boss Dieter Zetsche admitted the situation could easily be the “worst crisis since World War II.” If that’s the case, expect more job cuts and production slowdowns at Mercedes and BMW.
Even Volkswagen, which has a much broader brand and model mix, is concerned about its future. “We have never before seen this kind of a crisis,” chairman Martin Winterkorn said. He said it would be impossible for his company to avoid “difficult cuts” and “painful” measures.
According to the New York Times, luxury cars from BMW and Mercedes are beginning to pile up at U.S. ports. But they aren’t the only ones. Literally thousands of Toyota and Nissan models have filled acres of land at the port in Long Beach, California. In fact, Mercedes, Toyota and Nissan have requested to lease additional space at a 160-acre lot to park their slow-selling cars.
Recently, Toyota Executive Vice President Mitsuo Kinoshita characterized the current situation as “an emergency, of a magnitude we have never seen before.”
So is any automaker immune to the economic collapse in America, Europe, and Asia? Simply put: no. After all, Mercedes, BMW, VW, and Toyota are usually thought of as the most stable automakers in the world. Their survival will depend entirely on their ability to quickly adapt to slowing sales. Without the same rigid union and legacy costs of the Detroit Three, we’re hopeful they’ll all pull through.
Regards,
OW
Does that mean you're going to be hanging out in Honda forums now?
--KW
You'll have to tell us what you bought, how much you paid, and if you bought an extended warranty. :confuse:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
A Wal-Mart worker died after being trampled when hundreds of shoppers smashed through the doors of a Long Island store Friday morning, police and witnesses said.
The 34-year-old worker, employed as an overnight stock clerk, tried to hold back the unruly crowds just after the Valley Stream store opened at 5 a.m.
Witnesses said the surging throngs of shoppers knocked the man down. He fell and was stepped on. As he gasped for air, shoppers ran over and around him.
Thats the role of management to take care of the shareholders first and above all else. The UAW is first charged with taking care of its members first and above all else.
Roger Bonham Smith (born July 12, 1925) was the Chairman and CEO of General Motors from 1981 to 1990. Born in Columbus, Ohio, Smith earned his MBA at the University of Michigan Business School after serving in the United States Navy. He worked his way up the GM financial management team to become corporate treasurer in 1970, vice president of finance in 1971, executive vice president for finance and public relations, and a member of the board of directors in 1974.
Roger Smith seemed to be the last of the old-line GM Chairmen, a conservative, anonymous bureaucrat, resisting change. However, propelled by industry and market conditions, Smith oversaw some of the most fundamental change in GM's history, although his tenure is commonly viewed as a failure. When Smith took over GM, it was reeling from its first annual loss since the early 1920s. Its reputation had been tarnished by lawsuits, persistent quality problems, bad labor relations, public protests over the installation of Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles and by a poorly designed diesel engine. Smith made sweeping changes at GM, which was losing market share to foreign automakers for the first time. He instituted several initiatives that included forming strategic joint ventures with Japanese and Korean automakers, launching the Saturn division, investing heavily in technological automation and robotics, and attempting to rid the company of its risk-averse bureaucracy. Smith's transformation failed to earn consistent profits for GM, while its share of the US market fell from 46% to 35%.
In 1982 Smith negotiated contract concessions with the United Auto Workers and cut planned raises for white-collar workers. After unveiling a more generous bonus program for top executives provoked an angry response from the union, Smith was forced to back-pedal. Relations with the UAW, management, and stockholders remained strained. Profits improved in 1983 and Smith began unveiling his vision for reorganization, diversification, and "reindustrialization."
After GM's massive lay-offs hit Flint, Michigan, a strike began at the General Motors parts factory in Flint on June 5, 1998, which quickly spread to five other assembly plants and lasted seven weeks. Because of the significant role GM plays in the United States, the strikes and temporary idling of many plants noticeably showed in national economic observations.
Kudos to that excellent observation.
BMW, UPS, and even the Southwest Airlines pilots shot that out of the water , just to name a few.
That's because (gasp!) Southwest actually has GOOD relationships with its unions. And last I recall even the pilots pitched in to clean planes. No stupid work rules
Perhaps the UAW could survive if they became a lot more flexible.
I agree that it is managements responsibility to make a profit. And it is the Union leaders responsibility to do what is best for the workers. When you lead workers on a strike against a company that is not making a profit you are basically signing a death warrant for those workers. The most recent strikes come to mind. GM was bleeding red ink and one of only a couple vehicles were selling. So what do the stupid UAW workers do? They strike the only plants that are building vehicles anyone wants. They were striking over NOTHING. If you took a legitimate poll across the USA. I can bet the UAW is considered the problem by at least 80% of the population outside Detroit. UAW workers are not going to get any sympathy from the tradesmen that are out of work. Most around here were lucky to get $20 per hour with NO benefits.