I certainly have to say that the Ford Truck Video makes an excellent advertisement for the Ford F150. There's a reason the people still buy more of them than any other pickup. If I was buying a full-size pickup, I think I'd buy the F150 over any of the others (that Toyota sure looked bad!).
However, as long as we're posting truck videos, here's a video about a Toyota Truck. Let's watch an Asian vehicle decompose!
Fun Video. Too bad Toyota only sells their foo foo gas trucks in the USA. I would be happy with a USA UAW built small diesel truck like the Ranger sold everywhere but the USA. When it comes to vehicle selection we are a third world country.
Your post outlines one of the stark realities that happened in the U.S. auto market. Add to that the bland offerings in ALL GM divisions, Ford and Chrysler and there you have it!
Yes, there are some recent lights at the end of the tunnel but you can't operate for so long just selling SUV's and PU trucks and completely disregard autos.
CEO with an online diploma..........lol@talent and skill
Just what does a story about a 3rd rate electronics junk store chain have to do with the mess the UAW has created for the Big 3?
If I were Mullaly, I'd have told the senate where to stick their corporate jet comment as well. You act as if the CEO does nothing to earn that salary - unlike the union, there is no leverage they hold over the stockholders head to get that salary, the market pays for guys with their talents and skills, just like a football player. It seems extreme to us, but you'd take it if you could get it, you know you would
WASHINGTON — The CEO of failed Washington Mutual, on the job only a few weeks before the nation's largest thrift was seized by the government and sold to JPMorgan Chase, is entitled to more than $13 million in severance and bonus pay.
Alan Fishman signed an agreement that provides around $6 million in cash severance and retention of his signing bonus of $7.5 million if he were to leave his job, according to a company filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
As I recall, about half of their Insights and Civics required one or more transmission replacements over the lifetime of their long-term testing.
Consumer Reports rated the CVT as worse than average and, to put kindly, you may want to look at a variety of owner review sites, hybrid focused sites, and really any site that assesses the reliability of the 1st generation Civic hybrid.
Their relationship was so close that Bush ignored Lay's request that the federal government intervene when Enron collapsed, and Lay and several of Enron's top leaders were successfully prosecuted by the federal government during the Bush Administration.
The judicial branch is independent of the executive branch. Back to UAW business.
That might not be enough for some lawmakers. Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., the Democratic Whip, told reporters Monday in Columbia, S.C., that the three CEOs should quit.
"If I had my way, all three of those guys would be in the unemployment line and I think that ought to be one of the conditions for us doing this," Clyburn said. "We need to have new leadership."
The bank "bailout" really isn't a bailout after all. :P
Six posts and not one has any relevance to the UAW workers. And their role in the demise of the Domestic Automakers. Or was Bill Clinton trying to get Ken Lay to hire UAW workers when they were out playing golf?
You may think you are able to spin fiction into fact. You have not done it on Edmund's that I have read. You have proven you can cut and paste Liberal propaganda with the best of them. It does not look like it is helping the UAW in this current mess. Even Obama Liberal number one is distancing himself from the Big 3 mess & the UAW workers. I don't think the UAW fits into his manifesto.
American buyers have been deserting Big 3 cars over the last 20 years, and there HAS to be a reason...too many doors that don't fit, too many hoods that do not meet the fenders, too many Pintos and Vegas, and too much junk manufactured well after the years of the Japanese junk...
Excellent post. Based on my own personal experiences as well as my friends and families owning Detroit's vehicles over the last 25 years, we all fit in to your example. Simply put, we bought one of the Big 3 when we were in our 20s, maybe one or two more afterward, and they fell apart, literally, as the vehicle aged over 5-7 years and upwards of 100K miles, and were then worthless.
Yes, there was the occasional vehicle that held up, but by and large that was the exception. I'll never forget an 85 Old Cutlass Ciera I bought in 88 when it had only 38K miles. I had it for 2 years and averaged $150/month in unexpected repairs over those 2 years, driving down the road,and wham, all accessory belts snap leaving me stranded. That's just one example I'll never forget.
I was going to buy some stock in GM since it's so low, but changed my mind as I just can't buy stock in a company whose product I don't believe in.
In my family, there are 4 Toyotas and I will never own anything but a Honda or Toyota! I guess I'm a Baaad American!
This is kind of do as I say, Not as I do for our new Pro Union Prez.
Barack Obama to buy rare £20,000 gold ring for his wife to say 'thanks for your support'
Michelle Obama is to receive this £20,000 thank you from her husband for her support during the election.
The Harmony ring is made of rhodium - the world's most expensive metal --and encrusted with diamonds. It is being hastily made by Italian designer Giovanni Bosco in time for January's inauguration ceremony.
The stunning thank you ring is made by top Italian designer Giovanni Bosco, who are based at Valenza Po near Alessandria and who counts a select list of VIPS's and celebrities as his clients.
Maybe like carmakers, there are no good jewelers in the USA. Obama is probably picking out his new Mercedes also.
They ain't buying American because too many have an image of poor quality that will NOT go away, so it may not be "water under the bridge" for Big 3 buyers, if they were burned multiple times in just the last 10-15 years, let alone the last 25-30...
...and THAT'S why a bailout is foolish unless GM in particular is willing to make RADICAL changes in the way it does business. Wagoner and Gettelfinger thinking the work has already been done is laughable.
Heck, I'd take Wagoner's job for only $1M per year and I'd still know there was a lot more to do. :shades:
Based on my own personal experiences, as well as my friends and families owning Detroit's vehicles over the last 25 years, none of us fit in to your example. We bought several Big 3 vehicles when we were in our 20s, and many more afterward, and they just keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny. The vehicles are over 20 years old, upwards of 100K miles, and they are still with us.
In my family, there are 4 Toyotas and I will never own anything but a Honda or Toyota! I guess I'm a Baaad American!
You said it, brother! Keep buying those foreign products and pretty soon you won't own anything.
Why is it when union workers sign a contract for the highest wages and benefits they can get, they're just representing their members and it's the company's free will to enter into the contract, but when a CEO or other executive does the same thing for his own compensation, he's a greedy [non-permissible content removed] who's raping the company?
As for the Washington Mutual CEO who pockets millions for a few months of work, more power to him. If you were a senior executive who had his choice of position, would you have taken the WAMU job without a big upfront bonus and severance if the bank was bought? Come to think of it, an executive that can negotiate that deal ought to be Waggoner's replacement at GM to negotiate with the unions and suppliers.
"The judicial branch is independent of the executive branch."
And by the way, federal prosecutors are in the executive branch and answerable to the Attorney General, who answers to the President. The judicial branch can't prosecute anyone for anything.
We bought several Big 3 vehicles when we were in our 20s, and many more afterward, and they just keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny.
The fact that yours didn't fail on you is why you kept buying them. Remember that just about every middle-aged or older person you see driving a foreign nameplate bought a domestic car at some point, suffered as a result, and said "never again".
Either you guys are exaggerating or I'm extremely lucky.
Or maybe it's you that are exaggerating. In my neck of the woods there are many that have owned one of the domestics but few who currently do. That's been the trend the last 15 years I've been in Florida.
My older brother has always been a die hard GM buyer. We've had some brutal family discussions at holiday time. He's now on his 3rd piece of crap GM in a row and he's now looking at a Toyota Tundra, says he's had enough. His current vehicle is a 2002 GMC pickup with about 70K miles and needs about $3K in unexpected repairs (starter, both window regulators, check engine light on, and rear end work).
No exaggeration here. Anybody who knows how I am about my cars knows even a burned-out bulb drives me bananas. I wouldn't tolerate serious defects with any of my cars. So far, GM vehicles have been extremely good to me.
His current vehicle is a 2002 GMC pickup with about 70K miles and needs about $3K in unexpected repairs (starter, both window regulators, check engine light on, and rear end work).
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much it cost to have the window motors replaced? I just had to have the motor in the driver's door of my '85 Silverado replaced. Total bill came out to about $280, but that also included replacing some rubber seals, and I bought them separately. Figured that while the door was pulled apart that much, might as well do the seals, too.
My uncle has had the 4L60E transmission go out in his 1997 Silverado twice now. I think the first time was around 70,000 miles, and it was covered under an extended warranty. Second time was around 108,000, and that time it was around $1860 to replace. Sad thing is, it's not like he ever does anything heavy-duty with that truck. He's never towed anything with it, and never hauled anything really heavy. Whenever there's any real work to be done, we'd usually just use my old '85.
Lemko, you have to face the fact that your experience is the anomaly, regrettably, and not the rule. If the American manufacturers were making consistently making cars of the desirability and quality of the Japanese, they wouldn't be in this situation.
Almost everyone I know has a 'bad Detroit' story. My Dad's 1980 Accord was his revelation. I remember him saying - "I'm amazed. 90,000 miles and I haven't done anything but change the oil and the tires." This after a 78 Chevy Caprice that came from the factory with the rear axle misaligned, the ugliest 'Rubbermaid' dash, I've ever seen to this day, and persistent starting problems. He never went back to U.S. cars. After he passed away, I tried HARD to get my mom to buy a Buick. Great car, and great local dealer only 10 miles away. She absolutely refused. She bought an Avalon. My 23 year-old niece asked me for advice for her first car. She started out with "I know, no American cars!" Her Dad, who drives Dodge trucks. told her that. And it's not just family. I have a co-worker who changed to Japanese cars about 5 years ago. She is always saying she wished she had stopped trying to be so patriotic sooner.
It didn't have to be this way.
Caterpillar Tractor company bit the bullet and rebuilt the company back in the 1980's- it took a 200-plus day strike with the unions to do it, though.
Now, I'm not saying that GM's situation is all the fault of the UAW. The UAW had nothing to do with the design of the Aztek, et al. However, over the years, they've been part of the problem just as much as management's bad decisions. Anybody else remember when Consumers Reports published a decoder so you could avoid American cars built on a Friday or a Monday? Those were the worst build-quality days.
I really think that bankruptcy is the answer. GM is like an alcoholic in denial, and nothing is going to change until they hit bottom. Bail them out, and they'll keep drinking -in this case - the koolaid that says that these problems are somebody else's fault. Oil prices, the Japanese, misinformed consumers.
But in the end, it comes down to my 23 year old niece, and the lessons she's absorbed from the experiences of her relatives. That's another 10 years of lost sales for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, unless something dramatic happens that might change her mind.
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much it cost to have the window motors replaced?
No, he hasn't had the work done. It's cold where he lives so he's gonna drive it through the winter and then dump it. But it's probably comparable to a Mustang I had a few years ago that cost $260 to have one regulator done. And that was at a small repair shop, not the dealer.
My sister, who is nine years younger than me, had a Chrysler LeBaron coupe as her first car. She currently drives a new Ford Focus and also has an 2004 F-150 truck and a 2007 Fusion. Obviously, she has has no problem with American cars.
Maybe it is because you are extremely good to your cars. Most people I know just drive em. Change the oil at various intervals when it fits their schedule. Your experience with Cadillac and Buick are similar to my wife and her LS400. Though looking back at her records she was screwed over on routine maintenance by the dealer. My experience with GM dealers service is overall better than the imports. The worst being Subaru in Alaska.
The sad part for me is not GM going down it is the dealers that have treated me well over the years with my GM trucks. Most were bought in one state and serviced here in CA. I am not enthused with Toyota service. My complaints were all given the brushoff. Sorry about that.
You've been lucky and selective. The '68 Buick was built with 10-20-year-old technology that hadn't been cost-engineered, and assembled in an era when the higher-line products were still built with some care. The '89 Caddy is more or less the same story, plus some good fortune on your part. Your other Caddies weren't around long enough for them to fall apart on you, and the '88 Buick is axiomatically one of the good examples since it survived long enough for you to buy it. All the bad ones hit the junkyard before you ever thought about looking for one.
No, he hasn't had the work done. It's cold where he lives so he's gonna drive it through the winter and then dump it.
LOL, I tried to do the same thing with my truck! That window motor has actually been dead for about a year. But about a month ago, I decided to pull the door apart and see if it was something I could replace myself. I did two window motors in a 1979 New Yorker a few years back, and they were pretty easy. Once you got the door trim off, basically just unplug the motor, take off three bolts, and it comes right out. How different could it be on the truck? Well, I found out!
Part of the process involved actually taking out the window glass Another part involved loosening the lift mechanism, which was under tension. I have one of those Haynes repair manuals, and it gave a caution, stating that serious injury can occur if you don't do it just right. Well, I should have taken that as a warning to just leave it alone and pay to get it fixed!
I got the window out and the lift mechanism loosened, but still couldn't get to the motor. And I couldn't get the window glass back in. That was when I gave up. I put the truck in the garage. I drove it a few times, when I had to, but this isn't exactly good weather to drive with no window!
I thought it would cost more to have the mechanic fix, actually. Heck, if I'd known it would've been this cheap, I would've fixed it when it first broke!
I've thought about getting a new truck from time to time, and really would like to stick with GM. But their 4L60E transmission still concerns me. I heard that Edmunds has a 2008 Chevy pickup that just ate its transmission, so it's still a weak spot.
I'll probably just stick it out with the truck I have for the forseeable future. I don't think there's really anything on the truck that's horribly expensive to fix if it breaks. The engine is a 305, and those things are a dime a dozen, and the old THM350C transmission is pretty sturdy, and I think only around $800 to rebuild. Fuel economy isn't so hot, but I don't really drive it enough to justify getting a newer, more efficient truck.
Just as a reminder. I had 3 GM PU trucks that I loved and a great Suburban. It was the 2005 GMC hybrid PU that was not up to my standard for a PU truck. It was also the only one built by UAW workers. And it was shoddy workmanship that kept the door from sealing tight. I will only buy used trucks from here on out. Unless some small diesel PU comes on the market.
Lemko, didn't you have a Ford product that ate a transmission? Either a Grand Marquis or a Crown Vic? How old was the car when that happened?
Most of my cars have been bought used...VERY used in some cases, so if I've had problems it's not necessarily the manufacturer's fault, as the car could have been neglected. I've never had a GM car that was bad enough to make me swear off GM, but my '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe made me swear I'd never by another GM car with that era of 231 V-6 again! FWIW though, they redesigned the 231 block for 1985, improving it considerably. And if I were to ever search out a car like that again, I'd look for a V-8.
The Lebaron had pretty good reliability ratings and people who bought them were/ are happy with them. I certainly don't say that all Chrysler (or Ford, or GM) products were bad.
The Honda retains twice the value and gets higher reading ratings. Further, the statistics say that more people are happy with more models of Honda than they are with Chrysler built (or GM or Ford built modes if you prefer).
Can you only argue that everybody in America is crazy, Lemko? Even if they are, what those numbers are saying is that people believe that they are going to have less trouble with a Civic than a Neon. It's also saying that, while there may be good individual U.S. models, statistically they believe that the bet to make is to buy a foreign car.
You can say that it's not true, but the statistical weight of what the market believes goes against you. Without something dramatic you're not going to change that belief. Allowing your argument that the cars themselves are just as good, GM has had decades to change the impression that America has of them and failed.
What are they going to do different this time to change that. The Volt is predestined to be a failure even if it delivers everything promised. It's $40K and does nothing that a Prius doesn't do as well for a lot less money. How is that a game changer? Now if Toyota had the Volt and GM was introducing the Prius, they might have something.
The Volt is another Vega in the making. (And to get back on track) management is to blame for that decision, not the UAW.
dallasdude: First of all they owned one, you haven't.
I've owned several, and so have my friends. And our collective experience does not support your opinion.
dallasdude: Second we do know that Cuba has kept all those old Amreican cars running all these years.
Somehow, I doubt that Cuba, with its tropical climate, has had to apply salt to the roads because of snow and ice too many times over the past 50+ years.
Also note that most of those American cars you see have been so heavily patched and modified to keep them running that they really bear little resemblance to their original state. Some of those cars don't even have their original drivetrains anymore.
dallasdude: Regarding Honda CVT reliability, check out the Dept. of Energy long term testing of hybrids:
Actually, considering that this is new technology, the record is hardly awful.
Looking over the results, I note that the two 2006 Civics went for 147,000 and 153,000 with no transmission problems. The two 2005 Accord Hybrids went for 154,000 and 151,000 miles with no transmission problems.
Two of the 2003 Civics had transmission problems at about 95,000 miles, The Insights also had transmission problems around that point, too. The logical conclusion is that Honda had transmission trouble with the early models, but it appears as though Honda has corrected said transmission troubles for the new models.
The CVT transmission appears to be troublesome, which is hardly unique to Honda. Ask people who have had the misfortune of owning a Saturn Vue with the CVT...and that one didn't even feature a hybrid drivetrain.
dallasdude: The judicial branch is independent of the executive branch. Back to UAW business.
You keep trying to suggest that because Bush was friends with Ken Lay, that he was responsible for Enron's collapse, and that Enron executives got away with fraud.
This is false. Bush did not run Enron. He bears no responsibility for what happened.
Second, Enron executives - including Ken Lay - were prosecuted and convicted during the Bush presidency. If you think that the president has no influence over who is and isn't prosecuted by federal attorneys, you are kidding yourself.
Incidentally, the interview that you linked to noted that Lay was friends with Ann Richards, the Democratic governor of Texas, and he supported her bid for governor. Sooo...does this mean that she is responsible for what happened at Enron?
I agree with you on one thing - you should stick to discussing the UAW.
- Local United Auto Workers leaders from across the U.S. will hold an emergency meeting in Detroit on Wednesday to discuss concessions the union could make to help auto companies get government loans.
UAW leaders called the meeting Monday night in an e-mail, obtained by The Associated Press, to local union presidents and bargaining chairmen.
Among the subjects to be discussed at the meeting will be the possibility of restructuring the union-administered health care fund so that the automakers can delay payments to the multibillion-dollar fund, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The union leaders will also discuss potentially eliminating the jobs bank, in which laid-off workers keep receiving most of their pay. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the ...
Somehow, I doubt that Cuba, with its tropical climate, has had to apply salt to the roads because of snow and ice too many times over the past 50+ years.
I doubt that very many places in Cuba are more than 50 miles from the ocean and I suspect they have a lot of muddy roads there. There are a lot of good looking old cars there still in daily use. And a lot must look like this one.
The UAW "deplores the limits on the freedom of the Cuban people -- including restrictions on workers who seek free trade unions." link
>- Local United Auto Workers leaders from across the U.S. will hold an emergency meeting in Detroit on Wednesday
I hope there's enough time for all of them to drive to Detroit for the meeting. I wouldn't want a congressperson to be upset by finding out they flew in an, gasp, _airplane_. Especially if the plane were a small charter or jet owned by the Unions... Hmmm. Can someone check the FAA site to see if they're flying any Union owned jets around for this meeting? :P
I can't even get past the sales experience with Toyota. I foolishly went to look at a Camry with my girlfriend. The guys were arrogant and already assumed you were buying the second you stepped on the lot. They separated us were throwing all kinds of terms at my girlfriend that were confusing to say the least. She looked back at me with a bewildered look that said "Help!" as I was pushed into a corner over by a 4-Runner. It was my quick thinking that got us out of there before we lost our wallets and out wits. They were all upset when we didn't just cave-in. I don't care if a Camry is tougher than a tank, comes with free gold bullion in the trunk, $10,000 cash in the glovebox, and an ashtray full of flawless diamonds, I'm never setting foot on a Toyota lot again!
It was a 1989 Mercury Grand Marquis LS and the car was about 9 years-old at the time. Still, the repair wasn't too expensive considering it was a transmission. The rest of the car was in excellent shape. Still, even that experience wouldn't keep me from buying a Ford in the future. I just don't care for Ford as much as I do GM or Mopar.
"Based on my own personal experiences, as well as my friends and families owning Detroit's vehicles over the last 25 years, none of us fit in to your example. We bought several Big 3 vehicles when we were in our 20s, and many more afterward, and they just keep going and going and going like the Energizer bunny. The vehicles are over 20 years old, upwards of 100K miles, and they are still with us."
lemko, your experience may not be unique, just simply not enough of you to matter...unless you have been under a rock for 20 years, you have to know that there has been people grumbling about Big 3 cars for more years than I care to count...one would have to be naive to not see their impending bankruptcy...while I blame it heavily on poor workmanship from the union (extra screws, windows that don't fit, doors that don't line up are not poor mgmt but workers who don't care about ehri product) and other may blame it on mgmt, either way the PRODUCT is being deserted for what many believe are superior products, Toy and Honda...
Telling us about your 20 year old Buick ain't gonna sway anyone to walk into a Big 3 dealer, because your experience simply hasn't happened enough times to matter...
The only people I know who've ever complained about their cars - whether foreign or domestic - were they people who treated them like garbage. They never serviced them, let small problems turn into big ones, changed their oil like once a decade, never washed them, and the interiors were so filthy they should've been declared biohazards.
>Come to think of it, an executive that can negotiate that deal ought to be Waggoner's replacement at GM to negotiate with the unions and suppliers.
I would not bet on it.
In my very honest opinion, a CEO should think about the company first, before himself. When these greedy bastards negotiate their Salary and bonus, what targets are they setting in order to claim that, if any? It appears the only target they set is the stock price, which is not a true indicator since it is driven more by speculation than true fundamentals.
Funny, I see a lot of survivors like my '88 Park Ave whether they are LeSabres, Electras, or Park Avenues. Looks like very few that weren't accident casualties ended up in the scrapyard.
Look how the undeserved incomes of CEOs have increased compared to the workplace in general, and look at the economic picture they have wrought. Look at the good old boys club that exists among these souless cowards and how they are recycled like bad garbage from one overpaid position to another. They are lucky religion still keeps the poor from killing the rich, or these guys would be dragged out of bed at night and shot on a regular basis.
Buicks aren't bad cars... they have above average survivor rates -in Canada anyhow. I haven't found this data for the U.S. yet, but I believe that it would be reasonably comparable to the 2006 data below for cars bought between 11 and 20 years ago; the number shown below is the percentage that are still on the road today.
Lexus led the list with a 61.60 per cent survival rate, followed by Mercedes-Benz at 44.30 per cent, and Saturn at 41.60 per cent. Cars above the industry average, following those three, were (in order) Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Volvo, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Saab, Buick, Volkswagen, Chrysler and Nissan. Oldsmobile was below the industry average, at minus 0.10 per cent, followed in descending order by Subaru, Chevrolet, Ford, Pontiac, Audi, Mercury, Eagle, Dodge, Suzuki, Plymouth, Isuzu, Hyundai and finally Lada, at minus 28.70 per cent.
A couple of notes:
1. As far as 'non-prestige brands' Honda, Toyota are above average AND above Buick. Chevrolet, Ford, Pontiac, and Dodge are all below Buick AND below average. Honda, Toyota, Ford, and Chevrolet are the bulk of the market...where most of the public come in contact with a Big 3/ Oki 3 maker. Buick is a niche player - more comparable to Acura in terms of numbers sold.
2. The author of the article notes: that the numbers do not necessarily reflect quality, and may be affected by such factors as initial inexpensive prices, which may "write off" a vehicle more easily than an expensive model; and, of course, the 'Lemko factor' which is that the more people pay for their cars, the more likely they are to take care of them.
3. The Lemko factor can't seem to save Audi's though..... you can polish 'em all you want, but ...
By the way Lemko - we agree on Toyota sales people. Can't stand the ones that I've met. I'm sure there are some good ones who aren't arrogant (particularly right now!), but I can't seem to get myself back into a Toyota dealership to find one.
One of the sites I was reading on American cars in Cuba mentioned how many of them had Lada engines dropped into them because they were easy to do and readily available. There's high praise...
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Comments
However, as long as we're posting truck videos, here's a video about a Toyota Truck. Let's watch an Asian vehicle decompose!
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Top-Gear-tries-to-destroy_105017.htm
Not a comment on the UAW in any way, but a good break from the heat of the debate
Yes, there are some recent lights at the end of the tunnel but you can't operate for so long just selling SUV's and PU trucks and completely disregard autos.
Regards,
OW
Just what does a story about a 3rd rate electronics junk store chain have to do with the mess the UAW has created for the Big 3?
If I were Mullaly, I'd have told the senate where to stick their corporate jet comment as well. You act as if the CEO does nothing to earn that salary - unlike the union, there is no leverage they hold over the stockholders head to get that salary, the market pays for guys with their talents and skills, just like a football player. It seems extreme to us, but you'd take it if you could get it, you know you would
WASHINGTON — The CEO of failed Washington Mutual, on the job only a few weeks before the nation's largest thrift was seized by the government and sold to JPMorgan Chase, is entitled to more than $13 million in severance and bonus pay.
Alan Fishman signed an agreement that provides around $6 million in cash severance and retention of his signing bonus of $7.5 million if he were to leave his job, according to a company filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2008206643_webwamuceopa- y26.html
Brown also denied charges he padded his resume. He said the White House and FEMA made mistakes in describing two of his past jobs.
http://www.kcra.com/news/4952711/detail.html
http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/chrysler/sal/chry_sal09.php
You can't seriously think that the UAW represents only blue collar workers?
First of all they owned one, you haven't.
Second we do know that Cuba has kept all those old Amreican cars running all these years.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorial-in-search-of-hondas-hybrids/
Regarding Honda CVT reliability, check out the Dept. of Energy long term testing of hybrids:
http://avt.inel.gov/hev.shtml
As I recall, about half of their Insights and Civics required one or more transmission replacements over the lifetime of their long-term testing.
Consumer Reports rated the CVT as worse than average and, to put kindly, you may want to look at a variety of owner review sites, hybrid focused sites, and really any site that assesses the reliability of the 1st generation Civic hybrid.
The judicial branch is independent of the executive branch. Back to UAW business.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/07/07/bush-lay/
That might not be enough for some lawmakers. Rep. James Clyburn, D-S.C., the Democratic Whip, told reporters Monday in Columbia, S.C., that the three CEOs should quit.
"If I had my way, all three of those guys would be in the unemployment line and I think that ought to be one of the conditions for us doing this," Clyburn said. "We need to have new leadership."
The bank "bailout" really isn't a bailout after all. :P
TARP turns to Investment
Regards,
OW
You may think you are able to spin fiction into fact. You have not done it on Edmund's that I have read. You have proven you can cut and paste Liberal propaganda with the best of them. It does not look like it is helping the UAW in this current mess. Even Obama Liberal number one is distancing himself from the Big 3 mess & the UAW workers. I don't think the UAW fits into his manifesto.
Excellent post. Based on my own personal experiences as well as my friends and families owning Detroit's vehicles over the last 25 years, we all fit in to your example. Simply put, we bought one of the Big 3 when we were in our 20s, maybe one or two more afterward, and they fell apart, literally, as the vehicle aged over 5-7 years and upwards of 100K miles, and were then worthless.
Yes, there was the occasional vehicle that held up, but by and large that was the exception. I'll never forget an 85 Old Cutlass Ciera I bought in 88 when it had only 38K miles. I had it for 2 years and averaged $150/month in unexpected repairs over those 2 years, driving down the road,and wham, all accessory belts snap leaving me stranded. That's just one example I'll never forget.
I was going to buy some stock in GM since it's so low, but changed my mind as I just can't buy stock in a company whose product I don't believe in.
In my family, there are 4 Toyotas and I will never own anything but a Honda or Toyota! I guess I'm a Baaad American!
Barack Obama to buy rare £20,000 gold ring for his wife to say 'thanks for your support'
Michelle Obama is to receive this £20,000 thank you from her husband for her support during the election.
The Harmony ring is made of rhodium - the world's most expensive metal --and encrusted with diamonds. It is being hastily made by Italian designer Giovanni Bosco in time for January's inauguration ceremony.
The stunning thank you ring is made by top Italian designer Giovanni Bosco, who are based at Valenza Po near Alessandria and who counts a select list of VIPS's and celebrities as his clients.
Maybe like carmakers, there are no good jewelers in the USA. Obama is probably picking out his new Mercedes also.
...and THAT'S why a bailout is foolish unless GM in particular is willing to make RADICAL changes in the way it does business. Wagoner and Gettelfinger thinking the work has already been done is laughable.
Heck, I'd take Wagoner's job for only $1M per year and I'd still know there was a lot more to do. :shades:
In my family, there are 4 Toyotas and I will never own anything but a Honda or Toyota! I guess I'm a Baaad American!
You said it, brother! Keep buying those foreign products and pretty soon you won't own anything.
As for the Washington Mutual CEO who pockets millions for a few months of work, more power to him. If you were a senior executive who had his choice of position, would you have taken the WAMU job without a big upfront bonus and severance if the bank was bought? Come to think of it, an executive that can negotiate that deal ought to be Waggoner's replacement at GM to negotiate with the unions and suppliers.
"The judicial branch is independent of the executive branch."
And by the way, federal prosecutors are in the executive branch and answerable to the Attorney General, who answers to the President. The judicial branch can't prosecute anyone for anything.
The fact that yours didn't fail on you is why you kept buying them. Remember that just about every middle-aged or older person you see driving a foreign nameplate bought a domestic car at some point, suffered as a result, and said "never again".
Or maybe it's you that are exaggerating. In my neck of the woods there are many that have owned one of the domestics but few who currently do. That's been the trend the last 15 years I've been in Florida.
My older brother has always been a die hard GM buyer. We've had some brutal family discussions at holiday time. He's now on his 3rd piece of crap GM in a row and he's now looking at a Toyota Tundra, says he's had enough. His current vehicle is a 2002 GMC pickup with about 70K miles and needs about $3K in unexpected repairs (starter, both window regulators, check engine light on, and rear end work).
Viva Viagra!
Just out of curiosity, do you know how much it cost to have the window motors replaced? I just had to have the motor in the driver's door of my '85 Silverado replaced. Total bill came out to about $280, but that also included replacing some rubber seals, and I bought them separately. Figured that while the door was pulled apart that much, might as well do the seals, too.
My uncle has had the 4L60E transmission go out in his 1997 Silverado twice now. I think the first time was around 70,000 miles, and it was covered under an extended warranty. Second time was around 108,000, and that time it was around $1860 to replace. Sad thing is, it's not like he ever does anything heavy-duty with that truck. He's never towed anything with it, and never hauled anything really heavy. Whenever there's any real work to be done, we'd usually just use my old '85.
Almost everyone I know has a 'bad Detroit' story. My Dad's 1980 Accord was his revelation. I remember him saying - "I'm amazed. 90,000 miles and I haven't done anything but change the oil and the tires." This after a 78 Chevy Caprice that came from the factory with the rear axle misaligned, the ugliest 'Rubbermaid' dash, I've ever seen to this day, and persistent starting problems. He never went back to U.S. cars. After he passed away, I tried HARD to get my mom to buy a Buick. Great car, and great local dealer only 10 miles away. She absolutely refused. She bought an Avalon. My 23 year-old niece asked me for advice for her first car. She started out with "I know, no American cars!" Her Dad, who drives Dodge trucks. told her that. And it's not just family. I have a co-worker who changed to Japanese cars about 5 years ago. She is always saying she wished she had stopped trying to be so patriotic sooner.
It didn't have to be this way.
Caterpillar Tractor company bit the bullet and rebuilt the company back in the 1980's- it took a 200-plus day strike with the unions to do it, though.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,923617,00.html
They not only survived the Japanese invasion - against exactly the same odds and playing field that Detroit faced - but prospered as well.
Now it's time to reinvent themselves again, and they're ready.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/08/20/100166166/inde- x.htm
Now, I'm not saying that GM's situation is all the fault of the UAW. The UAW had nothing to do with the design of the Aztek, et al. However, over the years, they've been part of the problem just as much as management's bad decisions. Anybody else remember when Consumers Reports published a decoder so you could avoid American cars built on a Friday or a Monday? Those were the worst build-quality days.
I really think that bankruptcy is the answer. GM is like an alcoholic in denial, and nothing is going to change until they hit bottom. Bail them out, and they'll keep drinking -in this case - the koolaid that says that these problems are somebody else's fault. Oil prices, the Japanese, misinformed consumers.
But in the end, it comes down to my 23 year old niece, and the lessons she's absorbed from the experiences of her relatives. That's another 10 years of lost sales for GM, Ford, and Chrysler, unless something dramatic happens that might change her mind.
No, he hasn't had the work done. It's cold where he lives so he's gonna drive it through the winter and then dump it. But it's probably comparable to a Mustang I had a few years ago that cost $260 to have one regulator done. And that was at a small repair shop, not the dealer.
Maybe it is because you are extremely good to your cars. Most people I know just drive em. Change the oil at various intervals when it fits their schedule. Your experience with Cadillac and Buick are similar to my wife and her LS400. Though looking back at her records she was screwed over on routine maintenance by the dealer. My experience with GM dealers service is overall better than the imports. The worst being Subaru in Alaska.
The sad part for me is not GM going down it is the dealers that have treated me well over the years with my GM trucks. Most were bought in one state and serviced here in CA. I am not enthused with Toyota service. My complaints were all given the brushoff. Sorry about that.
I still consider the UAW the key to GM survival.
LOL, I tried to do the same thing with my truck! That window motor has actually been dead for about a year. But about a month ago, I decided to pull the door apart and see if it was something I could replace myself. I did two window motors in a 1979 New Yorker a few years back, and they were pretty easy. Once you got the door trim off, basically just unplug the motor, take off three bolts, and it comes right out. How different could it be on the truck? Well, I found out!
Part of the process involved actually taking out the window glass Another part involved loosening the lift mechanism, which was under tension. I have one of those Haynes repair manuals, and it gave a caution, stating that serious injury can occur if you don't do it just right. Well, I should have taken that as a warning to just leave it alone and pay to get it fixed!
I got the window out and the lift mechanism loosened, but still couldn't get to the motor. And I couldn't get the window glass back in. That was when I gave up. I put the truck in the garage. I drove it a few times, when I had to, but this isn't exactly good weather to drive with no window!
I thought it would cost more to have the mechanic fix, actually. Heck, if I'd known it would've been this cheap, I would've fixed it when it first broke!
I've thought about getting a new truck from time to time, and really would like to stick with GM. But their 4L60E transmission still concerns me. I heard that Edmunds has a 2008 Chevy pickup that just ate its transmission, so it's still a weak spot.
I'll probably just stick it out with the truck I have for the forseeable future. I don't think there's really anything on the truck that's horribly expensive to fix if it breaks. The engine is a 305, and those things are a dime a dozen, and the old THM350C transmission is pretty sturdy, and I think only around $800 to rebuild. Fuel economy isn't so hot, but I don't really drive it enough to justify getting a newer, more efficient truck.
Most of my cars have been bought used...VERY used in some cases, so if I've had problems it's not necessarily the manufacturer's fault, as the car could have been neglected. I've never had a GM car that was bad enough to make me swear off GM, but my '82 Cutlass Supreme coupe made me swear I'd never by another GM car with that era of 231 V-6 again! FWIW though, they redesigned the 231 block for 1985, improving it considerably. And if I were to ever search out a car like that again, I'd look for a V-8.
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/reliability.aspx?year=1995&make=Chrysler&model- =Lebaron
Unfortunately, it wasn't true for all Chrysler products....
Take the 1995 Neon for example
http://autos.msn.com/research/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?modelid=815
Now look at the Honda Civic of the same year.
http://autos.msn.com/research/userreviews/reviewlist.aspx?modelid=1324
The Honda retains twice the value and gets higher reading ratings. Further, the statistics say that more people are happy with more models of Honda than they are with Chrysler built (or GM or Ford built modes if you prefer).
Can you only argue that everybody in America is crazy, Lemko? Even if they are, what those numbers are saying is that people believe that they are going to have less trouble with a Civic than a Neon. It's also saying that, while there may be good individual U.S. models, statistically they believe that the bet to make
is to buy a foreign car.
You can say that it's not true, but the statistical weight of what the market believes goes against you. Without something dramatic you're not going to change that belief. Allowing your argument that the cars themselves are just as good, GM has had decades to change the impression that America has of them and failed.
What are they going to do different this time to change that. The Volt is predestined to be a failure even if it delivers everything promised. It's $40K and does nothing that a Prius doesn't do as well for a lot less money. How is that a game changer? Now if Toyota had the Volt and GM was introducing the Prius, they might have something.
The Volt is another Vega in the making. (And to get back on track) management is to blame for that decision, not the UAW.
I've owned several, and so have my friends. And our collective experience does not support your opinion.
dallasdude: Second we do know that Cuba has kept all those old Amreican cars running all these years.
Somehow, I doubt that Cuba, with its tropical climate, has had to apply salt to the roads because of snow and ice too many times over the past 50+ years.
Also note that most of those American cars you see have been so heavily patched and modified to keep them running that they really bear little resemblance to their original state. Some of those cars don't even have their original drivetrains anymore.
dallasdude: Regarding Honda CVT reliability, check out the Dept. of Energy long term testing of hybrids:
Actually, considering that this is new technology, the record is hardly awful.
Looking over the results, I note that the two 2006 Civics went for 147,000 and 153,000 with no transmission problems. The two 2005 Accord Hybrids went for 154,000 and 151,000 miles with no transmission problems.
Two of the 2003 Civics had transmission problems at about 95,000 miles, The Insights also had transmission problems around that point, too. The logical conclusion is that Honda had transmission trouble with the early models, but it appears as though Honda has corrected said transmission troubles for the new models.
The CVT transmission appears to be troublesome, which is hardly unique to Honda. Ask people who have had the misfortune of owning a Saturn Vue with the CVT...and that one didn't even feature a hybrid drivetrain.
You keep trying to suggest that because Bush was friends with Ken Lay, that he was responsible for Enron's collapse, and that Enron executives got away with fraud.
This is false. Bush did not run Enron. He bears no responsibility for what happened.
Second, Enron executives - including Ken Lay - were prosecuted and convicted during the Bush presidency. If you think that the president has no influence over who is and isn't prosecuted by federal attorneys, you are kidding yourself.
Incidentally, the interview that you linked to noted that Lay was friends with Ann Richards, the Democratic governor of Texas, and he supported her bid for governor. Sooo...does this mean that she is responsible for what happened at Enron?
I agree with you on one thing - you should stick to discussing the UAW.
- Local United Auto Workers leaders from across the U.S. will hold an emergency meeting in Detroit on Wednesday to discuss concessions the union could make to help auto companies get government loans.
UAW leaders called the meeting Monday night in an e-mail, obtained by The Associated Press, to local union presidents and bargaining chairmen.
Among the subjects to be discussed at the meeting will be the possibility of restructuring the union-administered health care fund so that the automakers can delay payments to the multibillion-dollar fund, according to a person familiar with the matter.
The union leaders will also discuss potentially eliminating the jobs bank, in which laid-off workers keep receiving most of their pay. The person spoke on condition of anonymity because the ...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I doubt that very many places in Cuba are more than 50 miles from the ocean and I suspect they have a lot of muddy roads there. There are a lot of good looking old cars there still in daily use. And a lot must look like this one.
The UAW "deplores the limits on the freedom of the Cuban people -- including restrictions on workers who seek free trade unions." link
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope there's enough time for all of them to drive to Detroit for the meeting. I wouldn't want a congressperson to be upset by finding out they flew in an, gasp, _airplane_. Especially if the plane were a small charter or jet owned by the Unions... Hmmm. Can someone check the FAA site to see if they're flying any Union owned jets around for this meeting? :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
lemko, your experience may not be unique, just simply not enough of you to matter...unless you have been under a rock for 20 years, you have to know that there has been people grumbling about Big 3 cars for more years than I care to count...one would have to be naive to not see their impending bankruptcy...while I blame it heavily on poor workmanship from the union (extra screws, windows that don't fit, doors that don't line up are not poor mgmt but workers who don't care about ehri product) and other may blame it on mgmt, either way the PRODUCT is being deserted for what many believe are superior products, Toy and Honda...
Telling us about your 20 year old Buick ain't gonna sway anyone to walk into a Big 3 dealer, because your experience simply hasn't happened enough times to matter...
Did you see the video from top Gear where rest of the world uses a Toyota, and they don't have to keep it running? It just keeps on running
I would not bet on it.
In my very honest opinion, a CEO should think about the company first, before himself. When these greedy bastards negotiate their Salary and bonus, what targets are they setting in order to claim that, if any? It appears the only target they set is the stock price, which is not a true indicator since it is driven more by speculation than true fundamentals.
Lexus led the list with a 61.60 per cent survival rate, followed by Mercedes-Benz at 44.30 per cent, and Saturn at 41.60 per cent. Cars above the industry average, following those three, were (in order) Infiniti, Acura, BMW, Volvo, Cadillac, Jaguar, Lincoln, Toyota, Honda, Mazda, Saab, Buick, Volkswagen, Chrysler and Nissan. Oldsmobile was below the industry average, at minus 0.10 per cent, followed in descending order by Subaru, Chevrolet, Ford, Pontiac, Audi, Mercury, Eagle, Dodge, Suzuki, Plymouth, Isuzu, Hyundai and finally Lada, at minus 28.70 per cent.
A couple of notes:
1. As far as 'non-prestige brands' Honda, Toyota are above average AND above Buick. Chevrolet, Ford, Pontiac, and Dodge are all below Buick AND below average. Honda, Toyota, Ford, and Chevrolet are the bulk of the market...where most of the public come in contact with a Big 3/ Oki 3 maker. Buick is a niche player - more comparable to Acura in terms of numbers sold.
2. The author of the article notes: that the numbers do not necessarily reflect quality, and may be affected by such factors as initial inexpensive prices, which may "write off" a vehicle more easily than an expensive model; and, of course, the 'Lemko factor' which is that the more people pay for their cars, the more likely they are to take care of them.
3. The Lemko factor can't seem to save Audi's though..... you can polish 'em all you want, but ...
Source:
http://www.canadiandriver.com/news/060905-1.htm
By the way Lemko - we agree on Toyota sales people. Can't stand the ones that I've met. I'm sure there are some good ones who aren't arrogant (particularly right now!), but I can't seem to get myself back into a Toyota dealership to find one.
Looks like a job for Andre!
One of the sites I was reading on American cars in Cuba mentioned how many of them had Lada engines dropped into them because they were easy to do and readily available. There's high praise...