But I get pissed off when class warfare is stirred up against all CEOs simply because they make a ton of money.
Welcome to the real world, at the country club/golf course the appointments and wheeling dealing of who will be CEO, a director, and other no show positions. Shares equal votes and the same names come up in different large corporations. Much like the big boss of FEMA when all hell broke loose in the BIG EASY. Why do certain folks want to go to certain business schools? Networking is no secret. There are presidents and VP's who are involved in the day to day operations and actually come to work. $15,000 in greens fees in a year more than likely means that more business is being conduct by underlings. Spare us the free market CEO fecal matter. Fact is that those Toyota's and Honda's CEO's aren't allowed to be paid what the American CEO and by your admission have superior results. What is it about 15 times the highest paid employee that Japanese CEO's get?
How can we give AIG $150 Billion yet the Big 3 who dwarf AIG, ask for a lousy $34 billion and the right-wing is fighting them over it !!! :confuse: Are people really this dumb ???? 20+ million jobs are on the line and all our automotive suppliers here in Michigan, who happen to supply the imports will go belly up thus where are the imports going to get their parts ???? :confuse:
Is Robert Lutz still around at GM? I haven't heard about him for some time. Too bad you didn't get a position at a Buick dealer! I might just come all the way from Philly to Michigan to buy a Lucerne Super CXS from you! My 21 year-old Park Avenue is just getting a little long in the tooth!
automotive suppliers here in Michigan, who happen to supply the imports will go belly up thus where are the imports going to get their parts ????
If the big 3 go under (all will go or none will go) the suppliers will go under and all the import plants here in the US will stop production. Two things may happen.
one choice: Government gives loans to all the suppliers to keep them open to supply parts to all those southern assembly plants. As the economy gets better (3 years minimum with the big 3 gone) they increase tooling capacity at the US suppliers to meet their new higher volumes.
2nd: Government does not help out US suppliers and they go under. All parts start being imported within 6 months and US vehicle only tools get shipped overseas. Also cars are imported replacing the cars that were built here.
"My boss said their is a chance I might get to shake hands with either Wagoner, LaNeve, or Henderson"...
That is simply because THEY would want to meet the ONE GUY who actually sold a GM car to a customer in the last six months...
OK, I could not resist...rocky, I am glad to hear you not only have a job, but one that you seem to like and can express your knowledge of the product...so, finally, if one of us comes to buy a car from you, we will run into a salesperson whose knowledge of the product is not inferior to ours...
Of course, with everyone leaving Michigan, you may find yourself caught up in the whirlwind of people driving south... :P
So this is additional income in these years, right? Is that included in the $1.8M?
o Value of restricted stock units fell with GM‘s stock price
So were these restricted stock units he already owned, or were new ones given in 2007? If so, what was their (even lower) value?
o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006
What is the accrual rate, even if lower? Even if this is not income already paid out, what is this value? I doubt it is included in the $1.8M number.
Did he have any personal travel on the company jets? For executives this perk is usually listed as additional income although it is not salary.
With executive compensation, salary is rarely even 50% of the total. He may have only had $1.8M in normal salary, but I suspect there are many other perks.
And frankly, if I had failed for 14 years to do what I should be doing as CEO of one of the world's greatest companies, I think even $1.8M is darn charitable. You or I would be out on the street with that kind of performance in our jobs.
If the big 3 go under (all will go or none will go) the suppliers will go under and all the import plants here in the US will stop production.
I call BS on this. This is propaganda being offered by the same brilliant companies that gave us the Aztek, the Cavalier and Cobalt, jobs banks, and gold-plated SUVs. The same CEOs and unions that are afraid their gold-plated goose is going to die. Welcome to the real world that most of us already live in.
I'm willing to take the chance and run the experiment.
Wow, you said something nice about our president-elect !!
I back up the President that is elected. I think that spending big money on the roads and bridges that have been neglected is a good way to stimulate the economy. From what he has said, I would not count on a Big 3 bailout after he is in power. GM is so deep in debt they will never get out. Wagoner is hoping to get rid of some of that $66 billion he owes someone. Well that someone will want to be bailed out. I don't even think chapter 11 would help GM out of the mess Wagoner has gotten them into. How you can have faith in Wagoner is beyond me. He has NEVER made 5% net profit in all his years at GM. That is pathetic considering all those years selling zillions of SUVs. We could spend $100 billion and GM would still not make any profit. It would be good to see some company buy the good parts and scrap the rest. That would require chapter 7 liquidation.
Right...those better paying jobs amounts to $80 p/hr for assemblers, or $3200 per/wk!! UAW have single handly has priced themselves out of a job. Of course the High paid CEO, Presidents and the many Vice Presidents have helped also. How about cutting pay and getting rid of the UAW mob.
So this is additional income in these years, right? Is that included in the $1.8M?
o Value of restricted stock units fell with GM‘s stock price
So were these restricted stock units he already owned, or were new ones given in 2007? If so, what was their (even lower) value?
o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006
What is the accrual rate, even if lower? Even if this is not income already paid out, what is this value? I doubt it is included in the $1.8M number.
Did he have any personal travel on the company jets? For executives this perk is usually listed as additional income although it is not salary.
With executive compensation, salary is rarely even 50% of the total. He may have only had $1.8M in normal salary, but I suspect there are many other perks.
From what I can tell $1.8 is his entire income including paid out stocks. Now if GM stock goes up to some point he will be able to cash in those stocks but it did not happen in 2007. Not sure about the "perks". It may not have been in there but I do not know. Depends what the government would expect in the filing.
Here is what all the UAW supported Congressional folks think. They don't want to have this bailout on their watch.
Two weeks after a botched attempt on Capitol Hill, repentant leaders of General Motors Corp. (GM), Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler LLC were appealing to the Senate Banking Committee on Thursday with three separate survival plans that include massive restructuring, the ditching of corporate jets and vows by CEOs to work for $1 a year.
But they could expect a chilly reception on Capitol Hill. Even a top Democrat in charge of evaluating their aid requests made it clear he was eager to avoid voting on a bailout. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, wrote to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Wednesday asking the central bank chief whether there was anything stopping him from using his considerable lending authority to help the automakers.
And Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said it was up to the Bush administration to unilaterally rescue the Big Three with loans drawn from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund, since Congress was still unwilling to do so. "I just don't think we have the votes to do that now," he told The Associated Press.
Congressional Democrats know they can kiss their big gains goodbye in 2010 if the make a mess of the auto industry. It is easier to pass the buck.
Reid, Pelosi and Dodd know that $700 billion is already earmarked along with another $500 billion. So it is easy to try and make Bush and Bernanke look stingy with money they do not have to handout to the beggars from Detroit.
I say let the Big 3 rot in hell for destroying our auto industry over the last 40 years. The truth is and Congress knows it. NO amount of money will put them on the road to sustainable profitability with their antiquated systems.
The Caprice would never start when it was cold. I kept taking it to the dealer, but Chevy couldn't fix it. The Caprice had a carb that was set up for pollution and not for starting in cold weather. I don't even think it HAD adjustments. The executive hated leaving a meeting at some company and going outside only to have car trouble. It was embarassing as well as annoying. He dumped it after the first winter and bought a first-year Lexus LS400.
Not that it's any excuse for the car, but I wonder if that carburetor just got harder and harder to adapt to emissions controls as the years went by? I've had that same carb (at least I guess it's the same) in 4 cars now. 1985 Buick LeSabre 307-4bbl, 1985 Chevy Silverado 305-4bbl, 1986 Chevy Monte Carlo 305-4bbl, and a 1989 Plymouth Gran Fury 318-4bbl. Yep, you read that right...my '89 Gran Fury used a GM carburetor!
The only one that really gave me problems was the Gran Fury, and I'd always joked that it was rejecting it because it wasn't a genuine Mopar part! :P IIRC, on the GM cars the thing was computer controlled, but on the Gran Fury.
Or, I guess it could just be chalked up to inconsistency, which I think was GM's biggest problem back then. They could build an excellent car, but it wasn't always a guarantee that the second one to roll off the assembly line would be as good as the first.
As for the ultimate fate of my cars with that carb, well the Monte Carlo got t-boned at 192,000 miles while I was delivering pizzas. The LeSabre made it to 157,000 when its brakes went out. It had other issues as well. By that time it was a spare car, sat around too much, and we just didn't keep up on maintenance and repairs. The brakes were the last straw.
The Gran Fury just got driven less and less after I got the Intrepid. Gasoline was getting expensive (although a pittance compared to this past summer), and that thing got bad mileage and had an appetite for premium. Finally the water pump went out on it, around 118,000 miles. I cancelled the insurance, turned in the tags, and started pulling off parts here and there.
The pickup has around 128,000 miles on it, still running fine. I drove it today, in fact. Started up on the first try, didn't sputter or stall or anything, and behaved about as well as a 23 year old truck can, I guess.
FWIW, GM went to TBI fuel injection with the Caprice 305 for 1989, so maybe that was an improvement? The 307, which stayed on through 1990 in the Caddy Brougham and the Caprice/Estate/Custom Cruiser wagons, was 4-bbl carb right through the end.
Oddly, GM chose to switch the 305 to fuel injection in trucks comparatively early...1987. I wonder why they kept the Caprice/Monte 305 carbureted for two more years?
I say let the Big 3 rot in hell for destroying our auto industry over the last 40 years. The truth is and Congress knows it. NO amount of money will put them on the road to sustainable profitability with their antiquated systems.
Absent a long filibuster, the Dems will have the vote in a couple of months. The unions were a big factor in electing them, in spite of falling membership, so they will do whatever it takes to keep UAW workers on the job and on the voting rolls.
I can just see a deal where the Big 3 get money with the proviso that the workers don't have to make further (significant) concessions (the jobs bank deal is pretty significant to the UAW). The delay in pension funding will probably be guaranteed by Congress, either standalone or by giving funding to the pension guaranty agency that had been self-supported until recently.
Note too that the jobs bank wasn't killed, but suspended.
Note too that the jobs bank wasn't killed, but suspended.
If the UAW wants to look like they are part of saving the Big 3, they should kill the Jobs Bank, Yesterday. Put a note on the bulletin board. You no longer need to come in and read comic books and watch Cartoons. You are welcome to hang out if you like. Coffee is a buck and there are no more paychecks for doing NOTHING! Compliments of your working brothers in the UAW.
Wow, I wasn't aware of this "Jobs bank" until recently. What executive in their right mind OKed the union contract for that. WTF, that is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Layoff workers yet they still get paid most of their salary. Heck, I'd rather be laid off than work.
I guess the spin on the Jobs Bank is that the UAW can unilaterally suspend it but can't kill it without renegotiating the contracts. And they are saying that renegotiation is possible.
The rationale for creating the Jobs Bank was keeping trained workers handy to man the factory when production was increased. Hard to say it was anything more than featherbedding though.
The Caprice would never start when it was cold. I kept taking it to the dealer, but Chevy couldn't fix it. The Caprice had a carb that was set up for pollution and not for starting in cold weather.
...I wonder if that carburetor just got harder and harder to adapt to emissions controls as the years went by
I think that's exactly the situation, and also - didn't they actually stop putting adjustments on carbs in those days - or at least putting nonremovable plugs over the adjustment screws?
For most cars in most situations, the 'factory setting' on the carb worked fine, but if you got one that (because of other variables in the engine) was too lean to start on a winter day, there was nothing you could do.
I seem to remember a friend looking for a shade-tree shop brave enough to violate the law and adjust the richness on his carb. The GM people couldn't/wouldn't do it for fear of the legal implications.
However - a lot of the Japanese cars had already gone to fuel injection by that time. GM was lagging in that area.
Ford seems to be on the right track with the new Focus and more expensive Fusion.
Yes, they do, but the problem they will now face is the economy, already broken, is now paralyzed by fear, and those needing new cars, are cautiously buying used Japanese cars as best bets if they have to take a pay cut or lose their jobs, rather than buying a new car of any type. Let alone one from a company that could be needing a bailout.......
I wish I saw a real future for our auto industry, but I don't. I have 5 Fords, BTW (and one Lexus, shamefully noted).
The rationale for creating the Jobs Bank was keeping trained workers handy to man the factory when production was increased. Hard to say it was anything more than featherbedding though.
Not quite. GM wanted to modernize their plants back in the 80's with automatic equipment. The UAW did not want it to happen. So GM agreed to allow displaced workers to be in job banks for up to two years at 95% pay. Why would GM do this? Because otherwise there would have been a huge strike and whether we agree or not strikes take out huge amounts of money/profit and GM did not want to do this.
But in the end GM sales went downward and more workers were displaced. Right now there are about 1400 in the job banks. Many have been bought out by GM.
The jobs bank exemplifies the problem with the unions through the decades. When the companies (GM) wanted to automate and reduce worker costs (robots don't have retirement, healthplans, and relatives along with sick days), the union wouldn't sign contracts that didn't guarantee a time and number of employees for a plant. So workers who weren't needed couldn't be fired as in a normal business, but were paid anyhow. Can you picture a successful school district not being able to release teachers and administration staff if they needed to reduce the number of buildings they operate? But instead they had to pay them for reporting to a gymnasium and being there?
do the displaced-workers actually get put in any sort of training or do they just sit around all day in a lounge watching Green Acres reruns and Jerry Springer?
I hope they at least find something productive for them to do, training or otherwise. Just sitting around getting paid to do nothing can rot your brain!
It's my recollection (no guarantee) that they were encouraged to use job-finding help available. They had college and vocational courses they could take for training for their next vocation. I believe both of those were available online as well as in person at the institutions around the area.
meant they were "supposed" to be looking for other work...remember, we are talking about someone putting lug nuts on a wheel for over $25/hour...just what kind of job was he REALLY qualified for, that might accidentally pay over $8/hour...answer...NONE............so, to paraphrase the Russians of some time ago, "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us" except that the pay was real, a real drain on company coffers, and work was nonexistent, along with the effort made to look for the work...
That needed to end 15 years ago or longer, and just now they are talking about getting rid of it...when the average taxpayer finds out about Jobs Bank, and a bailout is granted for the UAW, I see even more anger among the natives...
But what do I know???...On a Clear Day I Can See General Motors...sinking...
Anybody recall the four-barrel carbs with the secondaries welded shut? Good God, the '70s sure sucked!
I heard that the carb used on the Olds 260 V-8 was like that, but I'm not sure what others used it. I thought my '76 LeMans had that carburetor, until I was fiddling around with it one day and accidentally bumped the secondary flap, and it opened.
Good God, what an exaggeration people made of the jobs bank!!! Only 1,400 people and it's good for only two years? Sheesh! I had pictured tens of thousands of idled workers sitting around watching Jerry Springer, reading the sports page, and playing cards. I guess there were a few stupid guys who didn't use the opportunity to better their educations, but it was a good thing for the guys who took advantage of the opportunity. At least you would end up with an ex-auto worker who's an educated guy who can obtain work elsewhere rather than another poor unemployable slob with no marketable skills!
"I am a retired GM-UAW member and I remember when the jobs bank was adopted. It was funded by every working hourly person. $0.05 an hour was deducted from everyone's paycheck to help support laid off workers. "
This Detroit News story says that the UAW had 12,000 members in the Jobs Bank in 2005. This was before the Delphi bankruptcy.
That link talks about how much the automakers contributed to funding the Jobs Bank. It's a bit more than a nickel an hour.
The rationale for creating the Jobs Bank was keeping trained workers handy to man the factory when production was increased. Hard to say it was anything more than featherbedding though.
Any company that has gone through layoffs knows that there are some critically skilled people you don't want to lose. You may not have an immediate need for their skills but you know you will shortly. You don't lay off these people.
When I worked for IBM when they had their first involuntary layoffs there were many issues like that. And the company hadn't gone through a layoff in decades so they actually didn't know how to go about a layoff without shooting themselves in the foot.
20 years ago get over it!!! GM is the most highly engineered cars built in the world. Toyota owes some of its successes to GM as do most auto manufacturers. I was in Auto parts / carb shop through the 80's. Let me tell you about Mitsubishi's Mikuni carb faults or Honda's Kehin Carb problems ... All and I will state again all cars have problems if you don't take care of them... they are machines made by man. CV joints and rack an pinions I sold dozens per day all for japanese manufactured cars . How about honda's notorious exhaust maniflods plugging up with carbon deposits causing backfires though the carb or a 84 Toyota tacoma/hilux that went through clutches and brakes every 10k or the 22R and 20R with a/t whose main seals leak and let tranny fuild into the engine and burnt smoke all day. Oh wait the Germans had some winners too... Don't blame the big 3 poor big gas guzzlers SUVS/Hummers blah blah blah. Look at Toyotas line up they have huge trucks and more SUVs than anyone and BTW Chevy has more cars that get better MPG than anyone. My buddy has an 2000 C1500 5.3 gets 20MPG and it has over 300k on it. He has replaced a cat converter / o2 sensor and a front wheel bearing. thats it plus reg maint. Jeez what a pile o .... CHEVY made? C'mon quit picking on the workers and their products it's not their faults. PUBLIC OPINIONS have a lot of weight behind them right or wrong mostly wrong based on hersay or unfactul events E1 needs to lighten up on GM, FORD and Chrysler.
There is nothing wrong with the UAW.., i have friends that are members of the VFW and i am an American Legion member.., for all of you who dislike the UAW probably are irrational, sounds like you're stampeding over a wal~mart employee. Your voices are not without sound, but there should be no reason to bring the workforce to lower levels. We all should demand better jobs. Who cares if the big 3 have a union, get over it already.(probably none of your business). The fact is that the bailout process is already begun and is not finished yet and is well into the trillions, that is a fact.., and so as the bailout process moves on they(the big 3) should be entitled to a $50 billion low-interest government-backed loan. The BIG 3 support the government in more ways than mostly any other company. Too many have already agreed as long as there are conditions. Only thing about conditions is that it should not always be up to everybody else to run the company. It alot of ways it is up to the company, but also guarantee the payback of that loan(which they have already done). restructuring and/or making concessions has always been something the BIG 3 have to consider. With the current Wall Street bailout already in the trillions.., i think the BIG 3 should get a bailout. Too much time wasted on this already, time to implement.There's already massive amounts of government intervention in the economy, we've [crossed] that bridge What's the fairness of not giving say $50 billion of low interest loans to automakers to help them restructure? It is good for the economy as well !!!
I say let the Big 3 rot in hell for destroying our auto industry over the last 40 years.
I think your sentiment is shared by any and all patriots, including the congress. Which is why they want to punish the big 3 for losing the fight against the imports. Who wants to side with losers in a fight? AIG or Wall street did not lose a fight with the trading community of any other world. Therefore no negative sentiments were built up against them.
>Wow, I wasn't aware of this "Jobs bank" until recently. What executive in their right mind OKed the union contract for that. WTF, that is one of the most stupid things I've ever read. Layoff workers yet they still get paid most of their salary. Heck, I'd rather be laid off than work.
When the management introduces Automation at the plant, the labor unions only reaction is that of losing a job and going on strike. So in order to placate the labor union while still pursuing automation, the management OKs such a deal. Very short sightedness. But, hey.....
>GM is the most highly engineered cars built in the world. Toyota owes some of its successes to GM as do most auto manufacturers
Agreed.
Except that GM did not listen to Juran, and the Japanese did. Not only did they not listen to Juran, they actually mocked him out of the USA. Guess where he landed? Japan. The rest is history.
When the management introduces Automation at the plant, the labor unions only reaction is that of losing a job and going on strike. So in order to placate the labor union while still pursuing automation, the management OKs such a deal.
That was the same reaction from many unions when IBM in the early 60s came out with the first cost effective computer systems that could replace the army of clerks that were employed. OMG, look at the huge numbers of job losses!
If the technology exists, and it does, then companies must replace labor intensive jobs with automation, otherwise your competition will, and you will fail.
Duh! (Not directed toward you chikoo, but at the idiots who continually fight this).
20 years ago get over it!!! GM is the most highly engineered cars built in the world
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Vega Get over it!!! That's what they said after the X-Cars Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Cimmaron Get over it!!! That's what they said after the paint fell off all the cars in the 80's Get over it!!! That's what they said after the diesel fiasco Get over it!!! That's what they said after the infamous plastic head gaskets Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Aurora transmission problems Get over it!!! That's what they said after piston slap problems
But trust me... we've got everything just right this time.
It isn't just me unfortunately. If it was, it wouldn't matter. It's the rest of America that needs to get over it. Maybe "GM is (sic) the most highly engineered cars in the world" but the truth is that too many people think that Japanese cars are a better $20K or $30K bet. Besides the quality question the fall-like-a-hot-rock resale values haven't helped either. That has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with GM dumping cars on the market.
Now, to get back on subject - why do they make cars and dump them? Answer - because they have fixed labor costs and the thinking was that it's better to have workers making cars that GM might make money on than it is to pay them to sit in job banks and be a complete waste.
AIG or Wall street did not lose a fight with the trading community of any other world.
Last I heard China has the cash to buy AIG and all of Wall Street. Even some Middle Eastern countries have a large stake in CitiGroup. Its self evident that no one wants the Wall Street failure.
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Vega
Was that 75? You will also recall the start of unleaded gas being used. Unfortunately lead also protected the valves and hence bad valves were everyones nightmare. The Vega was a cheap car, they tried to inject silicone carbide in a futile effort to protect cylinder walls. If you weren't so cheap you could have gotten a Cosworth Vega.
That was the same reaction from many unions when IBM in the early 60s came out with the first cost effective computer systems that could replace the army of clerks that were employed. OMG, look at the huge numbers of job losses!
If you look closer you will see that more jobs are created. However, IBM is a poor example since they gave away entire industries.
Dallasdude....I think you did not get the drift of my post.
AIG was not in competition with anybody of it's size from the "import" world. therefore they did not lose any fights with any outsider. hence, there are no bad feeling for them.
Whereas the big 3, while being the undisputed leaders in the Auto world, and the pride of the US in the rest of the world, lost the superbowl, in their own backyard to competition that was considered junk once upon a time. Therefore most US people are miffed at them.
>If you look closer you will see that more jobs are created.
Right you are. But those jobs were created elsewhere. This is a concept that "laborers" could not understand. They were not entrepreneurs at heart. They want a buck today to spend it at the Rambling Rose tonight.
AIG is flush with 152 billion in taxpayer money and is now in a position to use govt liquidity to outbid any competitor on any business that comes along. It's only a matter of time before competitors line up for cash infusions from the TARP. If they don't obtain cash infusions, they won't be able to stay in the game. They can't compete against the United States Treasury - which is subsidizing insurance and other risk products sold through AIG. Ironically, saving AIG is also killing off AIG's competition. Not sure if this was the plan, or just an unintended consequence. Phd's will write many books about the dislocations created by AIG and its bail out.
how Orwellian of you. 152 billion in debt is an advantage? they don't have that money in cash. it is gone to keep needed liquidity to avoid complete collapse of this fail socialist company. they have NO liquidity. they are sellers of assets, NOT a buyer. enjoy penny stock hell. the auto bail out should be paid for by liquidating aig , that would send a message that people are more important than paper
Thanks for the response. I don't own this thing, but AIG is underselling all competion. I work in the industry. AIG's long term prognosis should be "death" but the cadaver is proped up and it is hurting competitors. The govt can keep the monster alive and damage what's left of the healthy competition in the P&C industry - - or let the monster die. I'm with you - let it die.
Comments
Welcome to the real world, at the country club/golf course the appointments and wheeling dealing of who will be CEO, a director, and other no show positions. Shares equal votes and the same names come up in different large corporations. Much like the big boss of FEMA when all hell broke loose in the BIG EASY. Why do certain folks want to go to certain business schools? Networking is no secret. There are presidents and VP's who are involved in the day to day operations and actually come to work. $15,000 in greens fees in a year more than likely means that more business is being conduct by underlings. Spare us the free market CEO fecal matter. Fact is that those Toyota's and Honda's CEO's aren't allowed to be paid what the American CEO and by your admission have superior results. What is it about 15 times the highest paid employee that Japanese CEO's get?
-Rocky
If the big 3 go under (all will go or none will go) the suppliers will go under and all the import plants here in the US will stop production. Two things may happen.
one choice: Government gives loans to all the suppliers to keep them open to supply parts to all those southern assembly plants. As the economy gets better (3 years minimum with the big 3 gone) they increase tooling capacity at the US suppliers to meet their new higher volumes.
2nd: Government does not help out US suppliers and they go under. All parts start being imported within 6 months and US vehicle only tools get shipped overseas. Also cars are imported replacing the cars that were built here.
That is simply because THEY would want to meet the ONE GUY who actually sold a GM car to a customer in the last six months...
OK, I could not resist...rocky, I am glad to hear you not only have a job, but one that you seem to like and can express your knowledge of the product...so, finally, if one of us comes to buy a car from you, we will run into a salesperson whose knowledge of the product is not inferior to ours...
Of course, with everyone leaving Michigan, you may find yourself caught up in the whirlwind of people driving south... :P
So this is additional income in these years, right? Is that included in the $1.8M?
o Value of restricted stock units fell with GM‘s stock price
So were these restricted stock units he already owned, or were new ones given in 2007? If so, what was their (even lower) value?
o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006
What is the accrual rate, even if lower? Even if this is not income already paid out, what is this value? I doubt it is included in the $1.8M number.
Did he have any personal travel on the company jets? For executives this perk is usually listed as additional income although it is not salary.
With executive compensation, salary is rarely even 50% of the total. He may have only had $1.8M in normal salary, but I suspect there are many other perks.
And frankly, if I had failed for 14 years to do what I should be doing as CEO of one of the world's greatest companies, I think even $1.8M is darn charitable. You or I would be out on the street with that kind of performance in our jobs.
I call BS on this. This is propaganda being offered by the same brilliant companies that gave us the Aztek, the Cavalier and Cobalt, jobs banks, and gold-plated SUVs. The same CEOs and unions that are afraid their gold-plated goose is going to die. Welcome to the real world that most of us already live in.
I'm willing to take the chance and run the experiment.
I back up the President that is elected. I think that spending big money on the roads and bridges that have been neglected is a good way to stimulate the economy. From what he has said, I would not count on a Big 3 bailout after he is in power. GM is so deep in debt they will never get out. Wagoner is hoping to get rid of some of that $66 billion he owes someone. Well that someone will want to be bailed out. I don't even think chapter 11 would help GM out of the mess Wagoner has gotten them into. How you can have faith in Wagoner is beyond me. He has NEVER made 5% net profit in all his years at GM. That is pathetic considering all those years selling zillions of SUVs. We could spend $100 billion and GM would still not make any profit. It would be good to see some company buy the good parts and scrap the rest. That would require chapter 7 liquidation.
How about cutting pay and getting rid of the UAW mob.
So this is additional income in these years, right? Is that included in the $1.8M?
o Value of restricted stock units fell with GM‘s stock price
So were these restricted stock units he already owned, or were new ones given in 2007? If so, what was their (even lower) value?
o Supplemental Executive Retirement Plan (SERP) frozen and adopted lower accrual rate consistent with the tax-qualified plan on December 31, 2006
What is the accrual rate, even if lower? Even if this is not income already paid out, what is this value? I doubt it is included in the $1.8M number.
Did he have any personal travel on the company jets? For executives this perk is usually listed as additional income although it is not salary.
With executive compensation, salary is rarely even 50% of the total. He may have only had $1.8M in normal salary, but I suspect there are many other perks.
From what I can tell $1.8 is his entire income including paid out stocks. Now if GM stock goes up to some point he will be able to cash in those stocks but it did not happen in 2007. Not sure about the "perks". It may not have been in there but I do not know. Depends what the government would expect in the filing.
Two weeks after a botched attempt on Capitol Hill, repentant leaders of General Motors Corp. (GM), Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler LLC were appealing to the Senate Banking Committee on Thursday with three separate survival plans that include massive restructuring, the ditching of corporate jets and vows by CEOs to work for $1 a year.
But they could expect a chilly reception on Capitol Hill. Even a top Democrat in charge of evaluating their aid requests made it clear he was eager to avoid voting on a bailout. Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, wrote to Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke on Wednesday asking the central bank chief whether there was anything stopping him from using his considerable lending authority to help the automakers.
And Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said it was up to the Bush administration to unilaterally rescue the Big Three with loans drawn from the $700 billion Wall Street rescue fund, since Congress was still unwilling to do so. "I just don't think we have the votes to do that now," he told The Associated Press.
Congressional Democrats know they can kiss their big gains goodbye in 2010 if the make a mess of the auto industry. It is easier to pass the buck.
Reid, Pelosi and Dodd know that $700 billion is already earmarked along with another $500 billion. So it is easy to try and make Bush and Bernanke look stingy with money they do not have to handout to the beggars from Detroit.
I say let the Big 3 rot in hell for destroying our auto industry over the last 40 years. The truth is and Congress knows it. NO amount of money will put them on the road to sustainable profitability with their antiquated systems.
Not that it's any excuse for the car, but I wonder if that carburetor just got harder and harder to adapt to emissions controls as the years went by? I've had that same carb (at least I guess it's the same) in 4 cars now. 1985 Buick LeSabre 307-4bbl, 1985 Chevy Silverado 305-4bbl, 1986 Chevy Monte Carlo 305-4bbl, and a 1989 Plymouth Gran Fury 318-4bbl. Yep, you read that right...my '89 Gran Fury used a GM carburetor!
The only one that really gave me problems was the Gran Fury, and I'd always joked that it was rejecting it because it wasn't a genuine Mopar part! :P IIRC, on the GM cars the thing was computer controlled, but on the Gran Fury.
Or, I guess it could just be chalked up to inconsistency, which I think was GM's biggest problem back then. They could build an excellent car, but it wasn't always a guarantee that the second one to roll off the assembly line would be as good as the first.
As for the ultimate fate of my cars with that carb, well the Monte Carlo got t-boned at 192,000 miles while I was delivering pizzas. The LeSabre made it to 157,000 when its brakes went out. It had other issues as well. By that time it was a spare car, sat around too much, and we just didn't keep up on maintenance and repairs. The brakes were the last straw.
The Gran Fury just got driven less and less after I got the Intrepid. Gasoline was getting expensive (although a pittance compared to this past summer), and that thing got bad mileage and had an appetite for premium. Finally the water pump went out on it, around 118,000 miles. I cancelled the insurance, turned in the tags, and started pulling off parts here and there.
The pickup has around 128,000 miles on it, still running fine. I drove it today, in fact. Started up on the first try, didn't sputter or stall or anything, and behaved about as well as a 23 year old truck can, I guess.
FWIW, GM went to TBI fuel injection with the Caprice 305 for 1989, so maybe that was an improvement? The 307, which stayed on through 1990 in the Caddy Brougham and the Caprice/Estate/Custom Cruiser wagons, was 4-bbl carb right through the end.
Oddly, GM chose to switch the 305 to fuel injection in trucks comparatively early...1987. I wonder why they kept the Caprice/Monte 305 carbureted for two more years?
Well said and I agree whole heartedly.
I can just see a deal where the Big 3 get money with the proviso that the workers don't have to make further (significant) concessions (the jobs bank deal is pretty significant to the UAW). The delay in pension funding will probably be guaranteed by Congress, either standalone or by giving funding to the pension guaranty agency that had been self-supported until recently.
Note too that the jobs bank wasn't killed, but suspended.
If the UAW wants to look like they are part of saving the Big 3, they should kill the Jobs Bank, Yesterday. Put a note on the bulletin board. You no longer need to come in and read comic books and watch Cartoons. You are welcome to hang out if you like. Coffee is a buck and there are no more paychecks for doing NOTHING! Compliments of your working brothers in the UAW.
The rationale for creating the Jobs Bank was keeping trained workers handy to man the factory when production was increased. Hard to say it was anything more than featherbedding though.
Sorry, I'll pass.
...I wonder if that carburetor just got harder and harder to adapt to emissions controls as the years went by
I think that's exactly the situation, and also - didn't they actually stop putting adjustments on carbs in those days - or at least putting nonremovable plugs over the adjustment screws?
For most cars in most situations, the 'factory setting' on the carb worked fine, but if you got one that (because of other variables in the engine) was too lean to start on a winter day, there was nothing you could do.
I seem to remember a friend looking for a shade-tree shop brave enough to violate the law and adjust the richness on his carb. The GM people couldn't/wouldn't do it for fear of the legal implications.
However - a lot of the Japanese cars had already gone to fuel injection by that time. GM was lagging in that area.
Yes, they do, but the problem they will now face is the economy, already broken, is now paralyzed by fear, and those needing new cars, are cautiously buying used Japanese cars as best bets if they have to take a pay cut or lose their jobs, rather than buying a new car of any type. Let alone one from a company that could be needing a bailout.......
I wish I saw a real future for our auto industry, but I don't. I have 5 Fords, BTW (and one Lexus, shamefully noted).
The rationale for creating the Jobs Bank was keeping trained workers handy to man the factory when production was increased. Hard to say it was anything more than featherbedding though.
Not quite. GM wanted to modernize their plants back in the 80's with automatic equipment. The UAW did not want it to happen. So GM agreed to allow displaced workers to be in job banks for up to two years at 95% pay. Why would GM do this? Because otherwise there would have been a huge strike and whether we agree or not strikes take out huge amounts of money/profit and GM did not want to do this.
But in the end GM sales went downward and more workers were displaced. Right now there are about 1400 in the job banks. Many have been bought out by GM.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope they at least find something productive for them to do, training or otherwise. Just sitting around getting paid to do nothing can rot your brain!
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0510/17/A01-351179.htm
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That needed to end 15 years ago or longer, and just now they are talking about getting rid of it...when the average taxpayer finds out about Jobs Bank, and a bailout is granted for the UAW, I see even more anger among the natives...
But what do I know???...On a Clear Day I Can See General Motors...sinking...
I heard that the carb used on the Olds 260 V-8 was like that, but I'm not sure what others used it. I thought my '76 LeMans had that carburetor, until I was fiddling around with it one day and accidentally bumped the secondary flap, and it opened.
"I am a retired GM-UAW member and I remember when the jobs bank was adopted. It was funded by every working hourly person. $0.05 an hour was deducted from everyone's paycheck to help support laid off workers. "
This Detroit News story says that the UAW had 12,000 members in the Jobs Bank in 2005. This was before the Delphi bankruptcy.
That link talks about how much the automakers contributed to funding the Jobs Bank. It's a bit more than a nickel an hour.
Any company that has gone through layoffs knows that there are some critically skilled people you don't want to lose. You may not have an immediate need for their skills but you know you will shortly. You don't lay off these people.
When I worked for IBM when they had their first involuntary layoffs there were many issues like that. And the company hadn't gone through a layoff in decades so they actually didn't know how to go about a layoff without shooting themselves in the foot.
He has replaced a cat converter / o2 sensor and a front wheel bearing. thats it plus reg maint. Jeez what a pile o .... CHEVY made? C'mon quit picking on the workers and their products it's not their faults. PUBLIC OPINIONS have a lot of weight behind them right or wrong mostly wrong based on hersay or unfactul events E1 needs to lighten up on GM, FORD and Chrysler.
The BIG 3 support the government in more ways than mostly any other company. Too many have already agreed as long as there are conditions. Only thing about conditions is that it should not always be up to everybody else to run the company. It alot of ways it is up to the company, but also guarantee the payback of that loan(which they have already done). restructuring and/or making concessions has always been something the BIG 3 have to consider.
With the current Wall Street bailout already in the trillions.., i think the BIG 3 should get a bailout. Too much time wasted on this already, time to implement.There's already massive amounts of government intervention in the economy, we've [crossed] that bridge
What's the fairness of not giving say $50 billion of low interest loans to automakers to help them restructure?
It is good for the economy as well !!!
But every time I see a middle east video, the truck shown is inevitably a Toyota Land-cruiser or a Mitsubishi Pajero.
I think your sentiment is shared by any and all patriots, including the congress. Which is why they want to punish the big 3 for losing the fight against the imports.
Who wants to side with losers in a fight? AIG or Wall street did not lose a fight with the trading community of any other world. Therefore no negative sentiments were built up against them.
When the management introduces Automation at the plant, the labor unions only reaction is that of losing a job and going on strike. So in order to placate the labor union while still pursuing automation, the management OKs such a deal. Very short sightedness. But, hey.....
Agreed.
Except that GM did not listen to Juran, and the Japanese did.
Not only did they not listen to Juran, they actually mocked him out of the USA.
Guess where he landed? Japan. The rest is history.
That was the same reaction from many unions when IBM in the early 60s came out with the first cost effective computer systems that could replace the army of clerks that were employed. OMG, look at the huge numbers of job losses!
If the technology exists, and it does, then companies must replace labor intensive jobs with automation, otherwise your competition will, and you will fail.
Duh! (Not directed toward you chikoo, but at the idiots who continually fight this).
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Vega
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the X-Cars
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Cimmaron
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the paint fell off all the cars in the 80's
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the diesel fiasco
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the infamous plastic head gaskets
Get over it!!! That's what they said after the Aurora transmission problems
Get over it!!! That's what they said after piston slap problems
But trust me... we've got everything just right this time.
It isn't just me unfortunately. If it was, it wouldn't matter. It's the rest of America that needs to get over it. Maybe "GM is (sic) the most highly engineered cars in the world" but the truth is that too many people think that Japanese cars are a better $20K or $30K bet. Besides the quality question the fall-like-a-hot-rock resale values haven't helped either. That has nothing to do with quality and everything to do with GM dumping cars on the market.
Now, to get back on subject - why do they make cars and dump them?
Answer - because they have fixed labor costs and the thinking was that it's better to have workers making cars that GM might make money on than it is to pay them to sit in job banks and be a complete waste.
Last I heard China has the cash to buy AIG and all of Wall Street. Even some Middle Eastern countries have a large stake in CitiGroup. Its self evident that no one wants the Wall Street failure.
Was that 75? You will also recall the start of unleaded gas being used. Unfortunately lead also protected the valves and hence bad valves were everyones nightmare. The Vega was a cheap car, they tried to inject silicone carbide in a futile effort to protect cylinder walls. If you weren't so cheap you could have gotten a Cosworth Vega.
If you look closer you will see that more jobs are created. However, IBM is a poor example since they gave away entire industries.
AIG was not in competition with anybody of it's size from the "import" world. therefore they did not lose any fights with any outsider.
hence, there are no bad feeling for them.
Whereas the big 3, while being the undisputed leaders in the Auto world, and the pride of the US in the rest of the world, lost the superbowl, in their own backyard to competition that was considered junk once upon a time. Therefore most US people are miffed at them.
Right you are. But those jobs were created elsewhere. This is a concept that "laborers" could not understand. They were not entrepreneurs at heart. They want a buck today to spend it at the Rambling Rose tonight.
how Orwellian of you. 152 billion in debt is an advantage? they don't have that money in cash. it is gone to keep needed liquidity to avoid complete collapse of this fail socialist company. they have NO liquidity. they are sellers of assets, NOT a buyer. enjoy penny stock hell. the auto bail out should be paid for by liquidating aig , that would send a message that people are more important than paper
Thanks for the response. I don't own this thing, but AIG is underselling all competion. I work in the industry. AIG's long term prognosis should be "death" but the cadaver is proped up and it is hurting competitors. The govt can keep the monster alive and damage what's left of the healthy competition in the P&C industry - - or let the monster die. I'm with you - let it die.
the perils of communism.
http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_(A_to_Z)/Stocks_A/threadview?m=tm&bn=632&tid=255360&mid=255360&tof=1&off=1