All GM assembly plants are JIT. There is very little part storage at each plant. Now the parts that come from outside the US are kept in area warehouses by the suppliers because there is too much chance of supply line interruption.
It's their culture and not Deming. Therefore it's impossible for the American Car Companies to build cars to the same quality levels. Got it.
Sorry I missed some of what was just said. Deming principles were introduced into GM years ago. They are part of the reason GM's quality has matched or passed the quality of their competitors.
...part of the reason GM's quality has matched or passed the quality of their competitors.
You keep saying this, but other than JDP initial quality data, on what do you base the claim? Edmund's recent examples of two GM new vehicles (blown tranny on a truck, myriad problems on an Aura) don't bear this out. And Edmunds takes tons of advertising money from GM.
Even if it were true, the problem I see for GM is that nothing (better economy, loan from government, divisional shutdowns, etc.) will quickly or easily overcome a reputation that is so tarnished. What if all those good things happen and GM's market share keeps sliding anyway?
The data shows that the best are in the 1.5 problems per vehicle while the average is 2. Not a heck of a lot of difference anymore.
And I agree with the perception issue. Even people here say things like GM mpg sucks yet they lead in most segments and that happens even after the data is presented to them.
You know my story. I'm not buying the quality levels you tout.
Let's level the playing field and say GM is equal or better in quality to all auto manufacturer on every nameplate they sell.
Let us all know why GM is in the worst shape of any auto manufacturer currently, save Chrysler. I guess you could say quality isn't the problem? :confuse:
The parts are cheap, the designs are blah and the business model is failing. At least the quality is the best thing that GM has going for it because their sales are some of the worst.
Regards, OW
P.S. You can only blame the economy across all competition. Failing all other categories, that obviates the management philosophy and strategy decisions made over the last period of decline.
Let us all know why GM is in the worst shape of any auto manufacturer currently, save Chrysler. I guess you could say quality isn't the problem?
Good point. Perhaps quality is not a major part of the problem (not sure I believe that). Other parts of the problem might be:
1 - Vehicle desirability/refinement: even if quality vehicles, if they aren't desirable they won't sell well. 2 - Wrong vehicles for current market: maybe the vehicles are desirable but the mix is wrong. Example: great trucks, no great small cars. 3 - Service at dealers. 4 - Reputation. IMHO this is really their longest term problem. No way to solve this one quickly, even if all other areas are competitive. Tough to erase 30 years in just a few.
You continue to omit optimism.., the Big 3 have always had to overcome a phase or 2 in the past, on the other hand, the Big 3 have always maintained a better record than let's just say, 90% of mostly all other companies(and i would honestly say it is better than that).., okay what was the record of the nonbig3 products 80 years ago.., i would put that record number at a 0.., okay, what about 50 years ago.., have to put that record at 0 also.., 50, 60, or 80 years ago America has clear evidence that the Big 3 have a much greater record than 0.., and we can keep going past 100 years.., i am sure the Big 3 have full knowledge that change is in full gear and the Big 3 have a better record for recovery in the past from their trial and error. i wouldn't mind seeing the Big 3 succeed this caotic jumble. Looks to me like the change is in for the better. As for the electric cars, i am not sure if a battery explosion in the garage would be a healthy experience, but the actual damage would be greater than that of today's average car battery, and there are further similar examples of which i won't mention. On another scale i could goto Pizza Hut and tell them how to make a better pizza, something tells me i would only be ignored. The Big3 are not out(and never will be out) to monopolize the government, i will never feel that same way about the nonbig3. The face is that the nonbig3 are definately not even close to being friends of the superfriends. The fact is no other product as of today can overmatch(and i don't even see an overmatch) enough to change my mind. I remain a Big 3 customer, as also i prefer the 'made in usa' products whenever i shop. "We will sell no wine before its time."(as stated by Orson Welles) Today, PAUL MASSON is a jug wine producer of blended wines. --> link title "Buy no Auto except from Big3" ~cheers
A few years ago I visited the Nagoya plant of Toyota (they allow free guided tours, if you book in advance) - In our group we had some "visitors" from one of Toyota's Chinese competitors. I asked the guide if Toyota felt concerned about competition also touring their assembly lines, and she said "No, not really. You see, it is not just the assembly line process (which can easily be copied) but the company culture (which cannot be easily copied)". One example cited was that when an early group from GM toured the plant many years ago, they liked the ability of the assembly line worker to pull a cord and stop the whole line, if something was amiss. However when GM implemented this in one of their US plants, it did not work (no one would stop the line.....).
The reason, it turns out, was that at the GM plant, pulling the cord resulted in a harsh klaxon blaring to alert that something had gone wrong. At the Toyota plant, they play music to indicate that a mistake has been found which is an opportunity for improvement. The music was non-threatening, and the assembly line worker would therefore not worry about the consequences when pulling the cord. The loud klaxon focused so much unwanted attention that the GM employees preferred not to pull the cord at all.
During the tour, I noticed the line being stopped a couple of times (and the music play - it was very non-intrusive).
So yes, culture plays a big part. But Deming did provide the Japanese manufacturing industry the mindset (and the statistical tools) to leapfrog the quality barrier, and is a national hero.
When GM hired all the vets who came back from Vietnam for $3.25 an hour, they had no idea that their retirements would cost them a half a $million each.
You know I believe you are right. GM management through the years up to today have proven they are not real bright. Ending up with 450,000 retirees on FULL HEALTH CARE is the dumbest thing they could have done. We do have Medicare. It may not be gold plated like the GM plan but we as workers have paid for it throughout our careers. If GM was not pissing away the profits during the last 40 years they would have a huge amount in the Pension fund. That was what the contracts were all about. I say if we have to pay a penny to the retirees the execs at GM should end up in jail.
To hire vets who served this country is a good thing. A patriotic thing which shows those boys and girls that we as a nation care about them and their families. Glad and honored to have them as my union brothers/sisters. I hear you, what I hear is that were back to the time when big business was abusing its power. I hear your call to keep these greedy bastards in check. Your calls for the rebirth of organized labor echo throughout the nation. The UAW needs to get stronger and grow. Big business and big labor keep each other in check.
1) There is a good chance unemployment will be 10% by year end 2009
2) As a parents with kids in college, believe me when I say housing prices will continue to fall in 2009. This generation coming up behind us has NOTHING and the job and wage outlook is horrible for them. They WILL NOT be buying your $300K+ homes any time soon, rest assured...especially on the "soft" degrees that they are achieving.
3) As jobs contract, sales contract, and as sales contract, companies contract. We haven't seen the shoe drop on the manufacturing and services sectors like we have the real estate and financing sectors yet. That's coming. Retail's starting to feel it, automotive is crying uncle and, on a more personal note, aerospace is beginning to whimper rather LOUDLY!
4) Commercial property is the next to tank and that happens in earnest in 2009. If credit doesn't free up, the banks won't be re-upping a lot of these short term mortgages. And if the rents don't improve, the terms on those notes will be UGLY at best and probably drive a lot of bankruptcy into that block of ownership!
5) After that comes the credit card debt. Jobs are tough and getting tougher. If there was any hope of paying this debt down, it will evaporate quickly as people are sent home.
However, the reality is a two-fold solution that focuses on job creation with high end middle class wages.
1) Intellectual Property must be protected in this country. We cannot continue to have our engineers and scientists invent new products that are then instantly shipped off shore to be produced elsewhere. If you do that, you lose high paying manufacturing jobs and you lose the experience base that creates high paying jobs in the service sector.
2) We need to somehow develop a middle class work force that is willing to educate themselves in the skill sets that can handle the manufacturing and servicing of the high tech products. Based on what I read in the news and deal with on the streets, I don't know if that can happen. I can tell you that. And I can tell you also that there is only so much room for "soft" degrees like journalism and political science in a high tech supplier market.
This is how we grew the world's #1 demand marketplace after WWII. On the supply side, we supplied the world with the high end technology products that they could not produce for themselves and charged for those products accordingly. And in so doing, we created a real wage here in America that was second to none. After a solid 20 years of outsourcing, the American demand marketplace has been busted, literally. Wages evaporated, savings evaporated, inheritances evaporated, and the credit line from the middle class real estate bubble burst.
...and in the back of my mind, I still keep referring back to the article that said, by some estimates, there could be $360 trillion of these worthless financial instruments that need to be devalued to perhaps 2% - 10% of their face value. That's 3 - 5 years of the world's combined GDPs that needs to be re-valued and written off.
As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW. The great depression was a turning point as is today in history.
I saw the same cord at the Lincoln plant in Detroit about 10 or so years ago. Your absolutely right in that quantity took priority over quality. I failed to see the concern for the employee and his family. Then the CEO pay issue would be considered absurd by Japanese standards. However, I have knowledge that many Toyota/Honda executives are jumping ship and going to the highest bidder.
The data shows that the best are in the 1.5 problems per vehicle while the average is 2. Not a heck of a lot of difference anymore.
Three years is encouraging. That would probably be 35K-50K miles for most people. Still pretty young.
I think one of the reasons you see resale go into the dumper with the Detroit makes is that right or wrong, there's a perception that at 75K and above you are really taking a risk with the Detroit iron, while with Honda or Toyota you have a lot of life yet.
I know we had our '94 Mercury Villager until 222K miles with no major work. It was a Ford body with a Nissan engine and transmission. Our gardener who bought the car has 240K on it now and it is still going strong. My '85 Jetta was at 143K when I sold it. My brother's Windstar had major engine and tranny problems before 60K miles.
To hire vets who served this country is a good thing. A patriotic thing which shows those boys and girls that we as a nation care about them and their families.
Gagrice was talking about putting all GM retirees on full health care. Why are you playing the vets card when that is not relevant? By tying the Union to all things mom and apple pie - believe me, it's not gaining any sympathies.
Re: the domino effect in the economy. You are probably (and unfortunately) correct. Problem is that when the engine of the economy is overheated and falsely over-revved with cheap subprime loans and government overspending, there's going to be a day of reckoning. It does look like it's going to be bad and long. But not directly related to the auto industry.
As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW.
Not much chance of that. Let's wait four years and check back, ok?
1) There is a good chance unemployment will be 10% by year end 2009
Some talking head on the radio this evening claimed that the "real" rate of unemployment was already around 12%. There's a lot of slack in the official number - people who are no longer seeking work aren't counted plus there's a lot of manipulation like the “birth/death” model that gets factored in.
There may be some laid off UAW workers in the next month or so who'll be wishing for the Jobs Bank to be back.
I would expect they will. The Imports are going to need to ramp up production when GM goes belly up. The UAW has been sipping poison koolaid for decades. They are just a small fraction of their former selves. They have no one to blame but their own greed and lousy leadership.
Don't expect the Imports to be anxious to use old GM facilities and workforce. Just not realistic.
Are they the ones added to the food stamp roles? There are always a good percentage that just do not work. Live off friends and family. When unemployment gets down to about 4% there is a labor shortage. Many jobs available and no one to fill them. Mostly entry level. I don't see as many help wanted signs as there was just a year ago.
I cannot believe GM did not insist on dumping the jobs bank on that last contract. What worthless management. I thought our general manager was stupid during negotiations. He would look like a rocket scientist alongside Wagoner. Too much inbreeding in upper management at GM.
Probably. Some are on disability according to another story that I glanced at but didn't note the link. Some are depending on the kindness of friends and family (moved back in with mom?).
Not too many people have a Jobs Bank to fall back on.
The new Honda plant in Greensburg advertised the 900 jobs that would be available. Since Greensburg is 60 miles SE of Anderson, Indiana, Honda specifically made it clear that ex UAW need not apply. Anderson had by then lost 25,000 UAW jobs. Honda does not want any of the mindset associated with unions to enter their new plant. Honda can't wait for the day when their factories can become 100% robots and no Americans can even have the very low glass ceiling jobs that are now offered to us as we buy their cars, ruin our economy, and go begging to them for salvation.
The city of Indianapolis just contracted yesterday to buy 90 Hybrid Camrys as non-pursuit police vehicles. They were offered $1700 lower price per car for hybrid Malibus from a local dealer but chose to pay more and send our tax money to Japan. They calculated that the Toyota was going to get better gas mileage to more than compensate for the $1700 up front cost. The news says this may be a bad political move in a state and city that is having hundreds of B3 layoffs this week. Even our Mayor wants us colonized.
Not much chance of that. Let's wait four years and check back, ok?
Reminds me of that bumper sticker "Buy American, The Job You Save May Be you Own". This is true more than ever. Self preservation is something Americans will look at as the price of their home goes down, their 401K evaporates with their dreams of retirement, and the American Dream is all but a nightmare for this next generation. One has only to look and see that Toyota stock is selling at a 52 week low and at half the value. Industries such as steel and textiles are all but gone and this time we have a new player at the table, China. In the long run China will bury the Toyota/Honda as experts expect. The most Honda/Toyota can expect is a niche market, such as that of MAC/Apple in the computer industry.
Re: the domino effect in the economy. You are probably (and unfortunately) correct. Problem is that when the engine of the economy is overheated and falsely over-revved with cheap subprime loans and government overspending, there's going to be a day of reckoning. It does look like it's going to be bad and long. But not directly related to the auto industry.
During times when private investment isn't being crowded out and or interest rates deter private investment or put off private investment altogether. Govt spending is not the evil you might think. Fact is that you haven't seen anything yet as the spending govt will have to do as the only tool. FED has lowered interest rates to historical lows and fiscal policy is all thats left. Eerie the common events of our nation to those of Japan and their decade of agony. Much like a ten year flu and all you have is a bottle of asprin.
The city of Indianapolis just contracted yesterday to buy 90 Hybrid Camrys as non-pursuit police vehicles. The news says this may be a bad political move in a state and city that is having hundreds of B3 layoffs this week.
Maybe fiscal responsibility is more important to the mayor than political correctness. I think the bigger picture would be showing the imports that Indianapolis would welcome MORE non union factories to their city. Unlike Michigan that would be most unfriendly to Toyota and Honda, Indiana already has a strong presence in the state. Those empty B3 factories can be had for pennies on the dollar and we have people that will work for the going wage without whining. Like Shelby of Alabama, your mayor wants what is good for his constituents.
So buying the Camry hybrids was probably a very smart move. They also get 22% better city mileage than the new Malibu hybrid that is relatively untested.
My daughter, SIL and grandson moved to Evansville last summer. They really like it there. Cost of living half of San Diego. They just bought a NEW GMC Sierra PU truck that my son in law has wanted for several years. My grandson loves his school. SIL only drives 4 miles to the office instead of 25 in bumper to bumper traffic. Sounds like Indiana will come out of this mess better than some of the other states around them.
Some talking head on the radio this evening claimed that the "real" rate of unemployment was already around 12%.
So my predictions aren't good enough? Truth is that the unemployment rate, consumer price index, and othe measures have been toyed with. Much like cooking the books in many large companies. In order to hold a line on cost of living adjustments in those social security checks, some tweaking happened. Most UAW contracts too had their multiple and or base year changed. Then we could go into the "average wage earners basket" (CPI) and see that energy and food are missing as core parts. Then now days 25% instead of 33% goes into housing.
People over react to numbers/metrics and Wall Street be the rumor mill that it is, saying nothing is sometimes best. Ford took a step back and said they weren't having any issues after the beating GM shares took. I know better, they are all hurting, all of them, including the imports. So here comes my next prediction.
THE 10% PENALTY FOR DIGGING INTO THE 401K WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH
In order to hold a line on cost of living adjustments in those social security checks, some tweaking happened.
Just received my update from SS in the mail. Official percentage for this year is 5.8%. So I get an additional $99 on my January deposit. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. I am just hoping I live long enough to get back what I put in over 46 years. It is doubtful. When I reach 75 I will be looking for the interest on that $250,000 contributed by myself and my employers.
THE 10% PENALTY FOR DIGGING INTO THE 401K WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH
Didn't Obama or Biden suggest that in the campaign. Along with removing the tax deduction on 401Ks?
The news says this may be a bad political move in a state and city that is having hundreds of B3 layoffs this week.
Didn't that mayor just take a taxpayer funded trip to Asia? This reeks of graff and corruption. We still have lots of work to do in getting labor friendly folks into office. The UAW supports labor friendly folks in office regardless of party.
We still have lots of work to do in getting labor friendly folks into office.
I would say over the last 2 years more anti labor folks have been elected to Congress and the Presidency. Spreading the wealth is not pro labor. It is pro non worker. Creating jobs is best done by the private sector. That is not always what the Unions and especially the UAW vote for. Your view of jobs is different than mine. Jobs are created to produce something at a profit. Many Unions like the UAW think that jobs are to keep people working whether they are making the company money or not. Add to that the Jobs Bank and you have a totally Un-American situation. Paying people not to work is "Warehousing Votes".
Did you also predict that we are officially in a recession?
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer Last Updated: December 1, 2008: 5:40 PM ET
AMERICA'S MONEY CRISIS
* Georgia bank shuttered by regulators * Job picture could get even worse * Consumer credit drops $3.6B in October * Bush: Protect taxpayers in auto bailout * Stocks rally despite jobs report
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy
Some analyst predicted an uneasy economy for 25 years. Perhaps you can hit the target?
Does that reflect the purchasing power that recient price increases have eroded?
You can thank Jimmy Carter for social security COLA and not having to resort to eating dog food as prior entitlement folks claimed. Alpo or Purina? This is the very reason we need the UAW to champion the rights of past and present workers.
You can thank Jimmy Carter for social security COLA and not having to resort to eating dog food as prior entitlement folks claimed. Alpo or Purina? This is the very reason we need the UAW to champion the rights of past and present workers.
Wrong. Social Security COLA was part of the 1972 Amendments to the Social Security Act. (In case you've forgotten, I worked for Social Security at one time.) Nixon was President at that time. (Carter wasn't sworn in until January 1977.)
The 1st actual cost-of-living adjustment was paid out in 1974.
As I recall, Congress enacted the '72 Amendments because it wanted to remove Social Security benefit increases from the legislative agenda & put the system on autopilot. Many felt at the time that Congress was spending too much time on this. Organized labor favored COLA, but wasn't a major factor in its becoming law.
The argument over how best to measure the cost-of-living for benefit adjustment purposes has been going on since COLA was enacted. This is nothing new. What the writer in your linked article doesn't mention is that more generous benefit increases will lead inevitably to higher taxes on young workers. Remember that Social Security is nothing more than a device for transferring money between generations. If you want to give more to the older generation, you have to steal more from the younger generation. It's that simple.
Personally, I'd prefer lower FICA taxes on younger workers, even if that means smaller increases for retirees.
(Actually, I'd much rather see Social Security privatized. No authentic classical liberal likes a one-size-fits-all compulsory system.)
Perhaps we need to see this for what it really is. Your looking at the entire thing with way too much optimism.
First there is what economist call a time lag. All the while when the FED should have been increasing interest rates, they caved into political pressure and to lessen the effect of the housing boom, they lowered rates. For each percentage point of increase/decrease, we have that many more/less qualified buyers. Rather than fighting inflation they opted for lessening the housing mess. They kept housing prices up and sold more units, by lowering interest rates.
Second there will be inflation. Just how bad is yet to be known. If its bad enough, those T Bills will be like investing in a Cadillac and being paid back with a Aveo. There will be a dumping of these T Bills and investors looking into something more stable. Unlike Weimar Republic of post-WWI Germany, where foreign debt was due in gold, we have a fiat currency which can pay you back in worthless paper. Worthless meaning that it buys less than it did prior to you lending it. Please don't mistake lower prices at the pump as anything but less demand worldwide, which has created excessive supplies. Then too if the price of a home increases ten fold and wages increase fifty fold you have gain nothing, but rather lost.
Third there is going to be much more spending on public works and a host of other things by govt. This will make things worse in an economic sense, but much better in a social sense.
My answer is that bottom fishing is five or more years away and this is not the same beast of past economic cycles. I wouldn't even consider investing until the war effort is over, as govt demand for the war effort in itself is fueling this economy to a large extent.
This is the very reason we need the UAW to champion the rights of past and present workers.
My guess is you are part of a minuscule minority in this country. The UAW of all Unions may be the worst example of what happens when Unions have too much control over the companies. The overwhelming mood in Congress is the UAW needs to shed their featherbedding ways. That is coming from Democrats and Republicans. There are a lot of good Unions that have used constraint in negotiations. The UAW is not one of them. Why do you think the CAW split with the UAW. It was unethical practices if you care to recall.
I would say that oil prices falling will make that 5.8% more than fair. Over all my cost of living has not gone up this year. I just did not drive as much during the high priced gas period. Stayed home and tended my garden. Helped the wife make jam and canned peaches. Have 5 gallons of Plum Brandy that is coming along VERY well. With proper planning you can recession proof your life.
I stand corrected. It was Nixon. Was it a democratic congress? Does congress write law? Could Nixon have vetoed it?
I'm not going to let these old folks down in their last days. So, I don't agree with your sixty second solution. Life expectancy, modern medicine, were not taken into account/factored and therefore we have a problem. The problem is that on average most folks exhaust their contributions within five years. So we need to bite the bullet and go from there. Besides the AARP is the second largest/powerful lobby and they will protect their members. Much like the UAW will protect the membership.
Double digit inflation was the major driver in COLA. I refuse to let the Wall Street crowd to invest social security taxes. You need an people who aren't looking to churn and or profit from the system. In a short time period, a year or two, social security would be the largest investment on Wall Street and the commissions are what these good ole boys are eying. It would be taking care of the GOP's Wall Street buddies, and we have more than done that already. I in turn would like to take a crack at it in a not for profit foundation.
If the past data is an indication we are probably already close to the bottom. 4 more months and we may be on our way back up. There are some analysts predicting this.
Hopefully the loans will assure the public and they will start buying again.
We are looking at a foreclosed home to buy and fix up to rent and then improve substantially in about 3 years to sell. Will not buy it unless GM gets the loans though. I know a bunch of guys doing the same thing. They are bidding very low on foreclosed homes because no one is buying. If they start to sell the prices will go up as will normal homes that are for sale.
You need an people who aren't looking to churn and or profit from the system
Oh you got me laughing now. And just what was Congress doing when they along with John Kennedy pulled the money out of the separate SS fund and dumped it in the big bucket? If you think the Congress of the USA has yours or my best interest at heart you are on a different planet than I am. There is NOTHING benevolent about our government. It is all based on Power, Greed and Corruption.
Since Greensburg is 60 miles SE of Anderson, Indiana, Honda specifically made it clear that ex UAW need not apply.
Let's be clear here. Honda did not want a UAW mentality. Why would a company choose to go down the path that GM is currently in? Every company wants to be profitable and none of them want boat anchors around their necks.
They were offered $1700 lower price per car for hybrid Malibus from a local dealer but chose to pay more and send our tax money to Japan.
Sales tax goes to the local/state government. Income taxes paid by Toyota - many go to US government. No income taxes from the Detroit 3 since they have no income.
And just what was Congress doing when they along with John Kennedy pulled the money out of the separate SS fund and dumped it in the big bucket?
As I recall that was LBJ. But when is buying T Bills your if fact doing the same thing, its just nothing but an accounting adjustment which hurts no one I can think of. Folks assume that Social Security is in dire straits, but its Medicare which is the problem.
Besides the AARP is the second largest/powerful lobby
Who's first? AAA?
It sure isn't the UAW, certainly not in these times.
"If there is hope for the Big Three and for the UAW, it rests in unionizing the foreign automakers' U.S. plants.
It is not too late to save the Big Three. But the solution is not to tear down the historic and heroic gains won by prior generations of UAW workers. If there is hope long term -- for the unionized Big Three companies and for the UAW -- it rests in dealing with the unfinished business of the 1980s: unionizing the unorganized transplants."
I stand corrected. It was Nixon. Was it a democratic congress? Does congress write law? Could Nixon have vetoed it?
The Democrats controlled Congress throughout Nixon's presidency. Nixon could have vetoed the '72 Amendments but did not. (Nixon's passion was foreign policy; domestic policy bored him. Although he called himself a conservative, he rarely vetoed liberal domestic legislation. In return for this, he expected Congress to go along with his foreign initiatives.)
I'm not going to let these old folks down in their last days.
Households headed by the elderly are, on average, considerably wealthier than young households. Today's 25-year-old worker pays more in inflation-adjusted FICA taxes than his 75-year-old grandfather did back in 1958, when he was 25. Overall, the system is markedly more generous to those born before WWII than it is to those born later.
I refuse to let the Wall Street crowd to invest social security taxes.
What about non-profit credit unions or the local savings & loan? How about TIAA-CREF? There are plenty of savings & investment opportunities out there apart from Wall Street.
I don't blame them. UAW labor is spoiled by overpay and benefits. That's why American Autos are overpriced for the lack of quality. I'd buy Camrys over Malibus anyday. Workmanship and material quality are what you pay for in Foreign Vehicles. It's like comparing :lemon: to
I recall it as if were yesterday. The Wall Street Journal stated that Richardson Texas was to be boom town 2000. They are the telcom corridor and anyone in telecommunications is there, over 600 high tech companies, much like Silicone Valley. They were dead wrong.
Back then we formed a limited partnership to do basically the same thing your thinking about. Plumber, lawyer, architect, electrician, and a few others lent their talents. We worked several projects a month. It was time consuming and we did make some money. A NOTE: If you live on the property for two years your going to dodge the tax bullet. Our greatest and most profitable undertaking was a large subdivision in Austin, Texas. I recall it was 20 or so lots/tracts and rough plumbing could be done in one day on all of the homes. For that matter most crafts could be better used in this manner. High end pier and beam homes built to last, everything square, and planned to the last detail. Tile and sheet rock work are a thing of beauty, more like art. I have pictures. 2 acre lagoon, community garden, herb garden, playground/picnic area. We altered many/most of the homes, a few of the partners kept their property. Over all we knew that if we couldn't sell them, we would have to reside there. The three to four hour travel was well worth it. However, time off is one of the most expensive things you can give yourself.
I've been tinkering with a geodesic domes. I bet with the labor market being what it is, cost could much less. However, demand is another thing.
The pharmaceutical industry has run up an $800 million tab for lobbying Congress and backing political candidates over the past seven years, making it the "goliath" of American lobbying groups. The tab breaks down to $675 million in lobbying, $87 million in campaign donations to federal candidates and political parties and $10 million for advocacy groups, according to the Center for Public Integrity
Largest lobby is the NEA. Those teachers throw a lot of weight in Washington DC. They make the UAW look like pikers. Some of those contracts are to die for. Others not that great.
Update The Vette man pegged it with pharmaceuticals lobbyist.
Comments
Buick has built some real ugly cars, along with Cadillac. Recent Buicks I like the looks of.
It's their culture and not Deming.
Therefore it's impossible for the American Car Companies to build cars to the same quality levels. Got it.
Since it's all the zen fecal matter, let's talk about UAW work rules - and how we can improve the American way.
https://www.glgroup.com/News/Union-work-rules-formerly-an-unassailable-and-self-- destructive-bastion-of-waste-and-corruption-at-last-to-be-challeng-8751.html
Therefore it's impossible for the American Car Companies to build cars to the same quality levels. Got it.
Sorry I missed some of what was just said. Deming principles were introduced into GM years ago. They are part of the reason GM's quality has matched or passed the quality of their competitors.
You keep saying this, but other than JDP initial quality data, on what do you base the claim? Edmund's recent examples of two GM new vehicles (blown tranny on a truck, myriad problems on an Aura) don't bear this out. And Edmunds takes tons of advertising money from GM.
Even if it were true, the problem I see for GM is that nothing (better economy, loan from government, divisional shutdowns, etc.) will quickly or easily overcome a reputation that is so tarnished. What if all those good things happen and GM's market share keeps sliding anyway?
http://www.asq.org/about-asq/who-we-are/bio_juran.html
>It's their culture and not Deming.
>Therefore it's impossible for the American Car Companies to build cars to the >same quality levels. Got it.
Perfectly put.
Remember they are also the ones who had Kamikaze pilots......
Their culture teaches them to do what should be done, no matter what. Hence a better car is made.
The data shows that the best are in the 1.5 problems per vehicle while the average is 2. Not a heck of a lot of difference anymore.
And I agree with the perception issue. Even people here say things like GM mpg sucks yet they lead in most segments and that happens even after the data is presented to them.
Let's level the playing field and say GM is equal or better in quality to all auto manufacturer on every nameplate they sell.
Let us all know why GM is in the worst shape of any auto manufacturer currently, save Chrysler. I guess you could say quality isn't the problem? :confuse:
That does not compute!
Regards,
OW
Regards,
OW
P.S. You can only blame the economy across all competition. Failing all other categories, that obviates the management philosophy and strategy decisions made over the last period of decline.
Good point. Perhaps quality is not a major part of the problem (not sure I believe that). Other parts of the problem might be:
1 - Vehicle desirability/refinement: even if quality vehicles, if they aren't desirable they won't sell well.
2 - Wrong vehicles for current market: maybe the vehicles are desirable but the mix is wrong. Example: great trucks, no great small cars.
3 - Service at dealers.
4 - Reputation. IMHO this is really their longest term problem. No way to solve this one quickly, even if all other areas are competitive. Tough to erase 30 years in just a few.
Looks to me like the change is in for the better.
As for the electric cars, i am not sure if a battery explosion in the garage would be a healthy experience, but the actual damage would be greater than that of today's average car battery, and there are further similar examples of which i won't mention.
On another scale i could goto Pizza Hut and tell them how to make a better pizza, something tells me i would only be ignored.
The Big3 are not out(and never will be out) to monopolize the government, i will never feel that same way about the nonbig3.
The face is that the nonbig3 are definately not even close to being friends of the superfriends.
The fact is no other product as of today can overmatch(and i don't even see an overmatch) enough to change my mind. I remain a Big 3 customer, as also i prefer the 'made in usa' products whenever i shop.
"We will sell no wine before its time."(as stated by Orson Welles) Today, PAUL MASSON is a jug wine producer of blended wines. --> link title
"Buy no Auto except from Big3"
~cheers
The reason, it turns out, was that at the GM plant, pulling the cord resulted in a harsh klaxon blaring to alert that something had gone wrong. At the Toyota plant, they play music to indicate that a mistake has been found which is an opportunity for improvement. The music was non-threatening, and the assembly line worker would therefore not worry about the consequences when pulling the cord. The loud klaxon focused so much unwanted attention that the GM employees preferred not to pull the cord at all.
During the tour, I noticed the line being stopped a couple of times (and the music play - it was very non-intrusive).
So yes, culture plays a big part. But Deming did provide the Japanese manufacturing industry the mindset (and the statistical tools) to leapfrog the quality barrier, and is a national hero.
Will Honda and Toyota hire all the vets?
To hire vets who served this country is a good thing. A patriotic thing which shows those boys and girls that we as a nation care about them and their families. Glad and honored to have them as my union brothers/sisters. I hear you, what I hear is that were back to the time when big business was abusing its power. I hear your call to keep these greedy bastards in check. Your calls for the rebirth of organized labor echo throughout the nation. The UAW needs to get stronger and grow. Big business and big labor keep each other in check.
1) There is a good chance unemployment will be 10% by year end 2009
2) As a parents with kids in college, believe me when I say housing prices will continue to fall in 2009. This generation coming up behind us has NOTHING and the job and wage outlook is horrible for them. They WILL NOT be buying your $300K+ homes any time soon, rest assured...especially on the "soft" degrees that they are achieving.
3) As jobs contract, sales contract, and as sales contract, companies contract. We haven't seen the shoe drop on the manufacturing and services sectors like we have the real estate and financing sectors yet. That's coming. Retail's starting to feel it, automotive is crying uncle and, on a more personal note, aerospace is beginning to whimper rather LOUDLY!
4) Commercial property is the next to tank and that happens in earnest in 2009. If credit doesn't free up, the banks won't be re-upping a lot of these short term mortgages. And if the rents don't improve, the terms on those notes will be UGLY at best and probably drive a lot of bankruptcy into that block of ownership!
5) After that comes the credit card debt. Jobs are tough and getting tougher. If there was any hope of paying this debt down, it will evaporate quickly as people are sent home.
However, the reality is a two-fold solution that focuses on job creation with high end middle class wages.
1) Intellectual Property must be protected in this country. We cannot continue to have our engineers and scientists invent new products that are then instantly shipped off shore to be produced elsewhere. If you do that, you lose high paying manufacturing jobs and you lose the experience base that creates high paying jobs in the service sector.
2) We need to somehow develop a middle class work force that is willing to educate themselves in the skill sets that can handle the manufacturing and servicing of the high tech products. Based on what I read in the news and deal with on the streets, I don't know if that can happen. I can tell you that. And I can tell you also that there is only so much room for "soft" degrees like journalism and political science in a high tech supplier market.
This is how we grew the world's #1 demand marketplace after WWII. On the supply side, we supplied the world with the high end technology products that they could not produce for themselves and charged for those products accordingly. And in so doing, we created a real wage here in America that was second to none. After a solid 20 years of outsourcing, the American demand marketplace has been busted, literally. Wages evaporated, savings evaporated, inheritances evaporated, and the credit line from the middle class real estate bubble burst.
...and in the back of my mind, I still keep referring back to the article that said, by some estimates, there could be $360 trillion of these worthless financial instruments that need to be devalued to perhaps 2% - 10% of their face value. That's 3 - 5 years of the world's combined GDPs that needs to be re-valued and written off.
As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW. The great depression was a turning point as is today in history.
The data shows that the best are in the 1.5 problems per vehicle while the average is 2. Not a heck of a lot of difference anymore.
Three years is encouraging. That would probably be 35K-50K miles for most people. Still pretty young.
I think one of the reasons you see resale go into the dumper with the Detroit makes is that right or wrong, there's a perception that at 75K and above you are really taking a risk with the Detroit iron, while with Honda or Toyota you have a lot of life yet.
I know we had our '94 Mercury Villager until 222K miles with no major work. It was a Ford body with a Nissan engine and transmission. Our gardener who bought the car has 240K on it now and it is still going strong. My '85 Jetta was at 143K when I sold it. My brother's Windstar had major engine and tranny problems before 60K miles.
Gagrice was talking about putting all GM retirees on full health care. Why are you playing the vets card when that is not relevant? By tying the Union to all things mom and apple pie - believe me, it's not gaining any sympathies.
Re: the domino effect in the economy. You are probably (and unfortunately) correct. Problem is that when the engine of the economy is overheated and falsely over-revved with cheap subprime loans and government overspending, there's going to be a day of reckoning. It does look like it's going to be bad and long. But not directly related to the auto industry.
As the Democratic party arose out of the ashes like the mighty Phoenix, so shall labor unions and the mighty UAW.
Not much chance of that. Let's wait four years and check back, ok?
Some talking head on the radio this evening claimed that the "real" rate of unemployment was already around 12%. There's a lot of slack in the official number - people who are no longer seeking work aren't counted plus there's a lot of manipulation like the “birth/death” model that gets factored in.
There may be some laid off UAW workers in the next month or so who'll be wishing for the Jobs Bank to be back.
I would expect they will. The Imports are going to need to ramp up production when GM goes belly up. The UAW has been sipping poison koolaid for decades. They are just a small fraction of their former selves. They have no one to blame but their own greed and lousy leadership.
Don't expect the Imports to be anxious to use old GM facilities and workforce. Just not realistic.
Are they the ones added to the food stamp roles? There are always a good percentage that just do not work. Live off friends and family. When unemployment gets down to about 4% there is a labor shortage. Many jobs available and no one to fill them. Mostly entry level. I don't see as many help wanted signs as there was just a year ago.
I cannot believe GM did not insist on dumping the jobs bank on that last contract. What worthless management. I thought our general manager was stupid during negotiations. He would look like a rocket scientist alongside Wagoner. Too much inbreeding in upper management at GM.
Not too many people have a Jobs Bank to fall back on.
The city of Indianapolis just contracted yesterday to buy 90 Hybrid Camrys as non-pursuit police vehicles. They were offered $1700 lower price per car for hybrid Malibus from a local dealer but chose to pay more and send our tax money to Japan. They calculated that the Toyota was going to get better gas mileage to more than compensate for the $1700 up front cost. The news says this may be a bad political move in a state and city that is having hundreds of B3 layoffs this week. Even our Mayor wants us colonized.
Reminds me of that bumper sticker "Buy American, The Job You Save May Be you Own". This is true more than ever. Self preservation is something Americans will look at as the price of their home goes down, their 401K evaporates with their dreams of retirement, and the American Dream is all but a nightmare for this next generation. One has only to look and see that Toyota stock is selling at a 52 week low and at half the value. Industries such as steel and textiles are all but gone and this time we have a new player at the table, China. In the long run China will bury the Toyota/Honda as experts expect. The most Honda/Toyota can expect is a niche market, such as that of MAC/Apple in the computer industry.
During times when private investment isn't being crowded out and or interest rates deter private investment or put off private investment altogether. Govt spending is not the evil you might think. Fact is that you haven't seen anything yet as the spending govt will have to do as the only tool. FED has lowered interest rates to historical lows and fiscal policy is all thats left. Eerie the common events of our nation to those of Japan and their decade of agony. Much like a ten year flu and all you have is a bottle of asprin.
The news says this may be a bad political move in a state and city that is having hundreds of B3 layoffs this week.
Maybe fiscal responsibility is more important to the mayor than political correctness. I think the bigger picture would be showing the imports that Indianapolis would welcome MORE non union factories to their city. Unlike Michigan that would be most unfriendly to Toyota and Honda, Indiana already has a strong presence in the state. Those empty B3 factories can be had for pennies on the dollar and we have people that will work for the going wage without whining. Like Shelby of Alabama, your mayor wants what is good for his constituents.
So buying the Camry hybrids was probably a very smart move. They also get 22% better city mileage than the new Malibu hybrid that is relatively untested.
My daughter, SIL and grandson moved to Evansville last summer. They really like it there. Cost of living half of San Diego. They just bought a NEW GMC Sierra PU truck that my son in law has wanted for several years. My grandson loves his school. SIL only drives 4 miles to the office instead of 25 in bumper to bumper traffic. Sounds like Indiana will come out of this mess better than some of the other states around them.
So my predictions aren't good enough? Truth is that the unemployment rate, consumer price index, and othe measures have been toyed with. Much like cooking the books in many large companies. In order to hold a line on cost of living adjustments in those social security checks, some tweaking happened. Most UAW contracts too had their multiple and or base year changed. Then we could go into the "average wage earners basket" (CPI) and see that energy and food are missing as core parts. Then now days 25% instead of 33% goes into housing.
People over react to numbers/metrics and Wall Street be the rumor mill that it is, saying nothing is sometimes best. Ford took a step back and said they weren't having any issues after the beating GM shares took. I know better, they are all hurting, all of them, including the imports. So here comes my next prediction.
THE 10% PENALTY FOR DIGGING INTO THE 401K WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH
Just received my update from SS in the mail. Official percentage for this year is 5.8%. So I get an additional $99 on my January deposit. Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. I am just hoping I live long enough to get back what I put in over 46 years. It is doubtful. When I reach 75 I will be looking for the interest on that $250,000 contributed by myself and my employers.
THE 10% PENALTY FOR DIGGING INTO THE 401K WILL BE DONE AWAY WITH
Didn't Obama or Biden suggest that in the campaign. Along with removing the tax deduction on 401Ks?
Didn't that mayor just take a taxpayer funded trip to Asia? This reeks of graff and corruption. We still have lots of work to do in getting labor friendly folks into office. The UAW supports labor friendly folks in office regardless of party.
I would say over the last 2 years more anti labor folks have been elected to Congress and the Presidency. Spreading the wealth is not pro labor. It is pro non worker. Creating jobs is best done by the private sector. That is not always what the Unions and especially the UAW vote for. Your view of jobs is different than mine. Jobs are created to produce something at a profit. Many Unions like the UAW think that jobs are to keep people working whether they are making the company money or not. Add to that the Jobs Bank and you have a totally Un-American situation. Paying people not to work is "Warehousing Votes".
Did you also predict that we are officially in a recession?
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
Last Updated: December 1, 2008: 5:40 PM ET
AMERICA'S MONEY CRISIS
* Georgia bank shuttered by regulators
* Job picture could get even worse
* Consumer credit drops $3.6B in October
* Bush: Protect taxpayers in auto bailout
* Stocks rally despite jobs report
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The National Bureau of Economic Research said Monday that the U.S. has been in a recession since December 2007, making official what most Americans have already believed about the state of the economy
Some analyst predicted an uneasy economy for 25 years. Perhaps you can hit the target?
Regards,
OW
Does that reflect the purchasing power that recient price increases have eroded?
You can thank Jimmy Carter for social security COLA and not having to resort to eating dog food as prior entitlement folks claimed. Alpo or Purina? This is the very reason we need the UAW to champion the rights of past and present workers.
http://www.boom2bust.com/2008/10/16/social-security-recipients-being-short-chang- ed/
Wrong. Social Security COLA was part of the 1972 Amendments to the Social Security Act. (In case you've forgotten, I worked for Social Security at one time.) Nixon was President at that time. (Carter wasn't sworn in until January 1977.)
The 1st actual cost-of-living adjustment was paid out in 1974.
As I recall, Congress enacted the '72 Amendments because it wanted to remove Social Security benefit increases from the legislative agenda & put the system on autopilot. Many felt at the time that Congress was spending too much time on this. Organized labor favored COLA, but wasn't a major factor in its becoming law.
The argument over how best to measure the cost-of-living for benefit adjustment purposes has been going on since COLA was enacted. This is nothing new. What the writer in your linked article doesn't mention is that more generous benefit increases will lead inevitably to higher taxes on young workers. Remember that Social Security is nothing more than a device for transferring money between generations. If you want to give more to the older generation, you have to steal more from the younger generation. It's that simple.
Personally, I'd prefer lower FICA taxes on younger workers, even if that means smaller increases for retirees.
(Actually, I'd much rather see Social Security privatized. No authentic classical liberal likes a one-size-fits-all compulsory system.)
First there is what economist call a time lag. All the while when the FED should have been increasing interest rates, they caved into political pressure and to lessen the effect of the housing boom, they lowered rates. For each percentage point of increase/decrease, we have that many more/less qualified buyers. Rather than fighting inflation they opted for lessening the housing mess. They kept housing prices up and sold more units, by lowering interest rates.
Second there will be inflation. Just how bad is yet to be known. If its bad enough, those T Bills will be like investing in a Cadillac and being paid back with a Aveo. There will be a dumping of these T Bills and investors looking into something more stable. Unlike Weimar Republic of post-WWI Germany, where foreign debt was due in gold, we have a fiat currency which can pay you back in worthless paper. Worthless meaning that it buys less than it did prior to you lending it. Please don't mistake lower prices at the pump as anything but less demand worldwide, which has created excessive supplies. Then too if the price of a home increases ten fold and wages increase fifty fold you have gain nothing, but rather lost.
Third there is going to be much more spending on public works and a host of other things by govt. This will make things worse in an economic sense, but much better in a social sense.
My answer is that bottom fishing is five or more years away and this is not the same beast of past economic cycles. I wouldn't even consider investing until the war effort is over, as govt demand for the war effort in itself is fueling this economy to a large extent.
My guess is you are part of a minuscule minority in this country. The UAW of all Unions may be the worst example of what happens when Unions have too much control over the companies. The overwhelming mood in Congress is the UAW needs to shed their featherbedding ways. That is coming from Democrats and Republicans. There are a lot of good Unions that have used constraint in negotiations. The UAW is not one of them. Why do you think the CAW split with the UAW. It was unethical practices if you care to recall.
I would say that oil prices falling will make that 5.8% more than fair. Over all my cost of living has not gone up this year. I just did not drive as much during the high priced gas period. Stayed home and tended my garden. Helped the wife make jam and canned peaches. Have 5 gallons of Plum Brandy that is coming along VERY well. With proper planning you can recession proof your life.
I'm not going to let these old folks down in their last days. So, I don't agree with your sixty second solution. Life expectancy, modern medicine, were not taken into account/factored and therefore we have a problem. The problem is that on average most folks exhaust their contributions within five years. So we need to bite the bullet and go from there. Besides the AARP is the second largest/powerful lobby and they will protect their members. Much like the UAW will protect the membership.
Double digit inflation was the major driver in COLA. I refuse to let the Wall Street crowd to invest social security taxes. You need an people who aren't looking to churn and or profit from the system. In a short time period, a year or two, social security would be the largest investment on Wall Street and the commissions are what these good ole boys are eying. It would be taking care of the GOP's Wall Street buddies, and we have more than done that already. I in turn would like to take a crack at it in a not for profit foundation.
Hopefully the loans will assure the public and they will start buying again.
We are looking at a foreclosed home to buy and fix up to rent and then improve substantially in about 3 years to sell. Will not buy it unless GM gets the loans though. I know a bunch of guys doing the same thing. They are bidding very low on foreclosed homes because no one is buying. If they start to sell the prices will go up as will normal homes that are for sale.
Oh you got me laughing now. And just what was Congress doing when they along with John Kennedy pulled the money out of the separate SS fund and dumped it in the big bucket? If you think the Congress of the USA has yours or my best interest at heart you are on a different planet than I am. There is NOTHING benevolent about our government. It is all based on Power, Greed and Corruption.
My Acura TL was made in the USA. I'm proud of the American workers who put it together.
Let's be clear here. Honda did not want a UAW mentality. Why would a company choose to go down the path that GM is currently in? Every company wants to be profitable and none of them want boat anchors around their necks.
They were offered $1700 lower price per car for hybrid Malibus from a local dealer but chose to pay more and send our tax money to Japan.
Sales tax goes to the local/state government. Income taxes paid by Toyota - many go to US government. No income taxes from the Detroit 3 since they have no income.
As I recall that was LBJ. But when is buying T Bills your if fact doing the same thing, its just nothing but an accounting adjustment which hurts no one I can think of. Folks assume that Social Security is in dire straits, but its Medicare which is the problem.
Who's first? AAA?
It sure isn't the UAW, certainly not in these times.
"If there is hope for the Big Three and for the UAW, it rests in unionizing the foreign automakers' U.S. plants.
It is not too late to save the Big Three. But the solution is not to tear down the historic and heroic gains won by prior generations of UAW workers. If there is hope long term -- for the unionized Big Three companies and for the UAW -- it rests in dealing with the unfinished business of the 1980s: unionizing the unorganized transplants."
The Big Three's real union problem (LA Times Opinion)
The Democrats controlled Congress throughout Nixon's presidency. Nixon could have vetoed the '72 Amendments but did not. (Nixon's passion was foreign policy; domestic policy bored him. Although he called himself a conservative, he rarely vetoed liberal domestic legislation. In return for this, he expected Congress to go along with his foreign initiatives.)
I'm not going to let these old folks down in their last days.
Households headed by the elderly are, on average, considerably wealthier than young households. Today's 25-year-old worker pays more in inflation-adjusted FICA taxes than his 75-year-old grandfather did back in 1958, when he was 25. Overall, the system is markedly more generous to those born before WWII than it is to those born later.
I refuse to let the Wall Street crowd to invest social security taxes.
What about non-profit credit unions or the local savings & loan? How about TIAA-CREF? There are plenty of savings & investment opportunities out there apart from Wall Street.
I'd buy Camrys over Malibus anyday. Workmanship and material quality are what you pay for in Foreign Vehicles.
It's like comparing :lemon: to
I recall it as if were yesterday. The Wall Street Journal stated that Richardson Texas was to be boom town 2000. They are the telcom corridor and anyone in telecommunications is there, over 600 high tech companies, much like Silicone Valley. They were dead wrong.
Back then we formed a limited partnership to do basically the same thing your thinking about. Plumber, lawyer, architect, electrician, and a few others lent their talents. We worked several projects a month. It was time consuming and we did make some money. A NOTE: If you live on the property for two years your going to dodge the tax bullet. Our greatest and most profitable undertaking was a large subdivision in Austin, Texas. I recall it was 20 or so lots/tracts and rough plumbing could be done in one day on all of the homes. For that matter most crafts could be better used in this manner. High end pier and beam homes built to last, everything square, and planned to the last detail. Tile and sheet rock work are a thing of beauty, more like art. I have pictures. 2 acre lagoon, community garden, herb garden, playground/picnic area. We altered many/most of the homes, a few of the partners kept their property. Over all we knew that if we couldn't sell them, we would have to reside there. The three to four hour travel was well worth it. However, time off is one of the most expensive things you can give yourself.
I've been tinkering with a geodesic domes. I bet with the labor market being what it is, cost could much less. However, demand is another thing.
They always leak. Try a pyramid - there's several here.
Meanwhile, let's try to keep the focus on the UAW. Thanks.
Catholics
The pharmaceutical industry has run up an $800 million tab for lobbying Congress and backing political candidates over the past seven years, making it the "goliath" of American lobbying groups. The tab breaks down to $675 million in lobbying, $87 million in campaign donations to federal candidates and political parties and $10 million for advocacy groups, according to the Center for Public Integrity
http://www.fiercebiotech.com/story/pharma-industry-emerges-as-nation-s-biggest-l- obbyist/2005-07-07
Update The Vette man pegged it with pharmaceuticals lobbyist.