What about non-profit credit unions or the local savings & loan? How about TIAA-CREF? There are plenty of savings & investment opportunities out there apart from Wall Street.
Only if they are compensated if they make money and fined if they take foolish risks. I'm of the opinion that there are few good money managers out there. Most of these folks who can't make it in the sciences/engineering, change majors. 70% of the schools student bodies are in the business schools. You have no earthly idea of the scams being currently perpetrated on Wall Street right at the present. They buy shorting on a stock, they create a rumor, sell the shorting as the rumor mill factors in the rumor into the price, and they aggressively buy the stock. A spokesman comes out to dis-spell the rumor, mean while they have made money on shorting, and then again on the stock as the rumor is factored out of the price. Special 10% bonds for their filthy rich friends. Special deals for brokerage houses best customers. I could go on. But the point is that they would find/create a way to pocket social security money. Capital punishment is the only deterrent for these white collar criminals.
Since they have to get past inspections, what do you think? But I would venture to guess that some illegals were involved as subs. But seriously, those homes in California, pricewise, are just one step up from a trailer home here in Texas. I would venture to guess that 50% or more of these folks whom transplanted from California and got into mansion compared to what they had there. Its as if they came from the projects. Is there any reasonable housing in Stockton?
Since they have to get past inspections, what do you think?
Since you put it that way I would say they were all Non union.
I will not defend the building practices in CA. They are atrocious. It would make both my Uncles and step dad roll over in their graves. A few independent small contractors build using good materials and practices. Most homes I have looked at do not have a straight wall in them.
Not much residential Union work was used here in CA if any.
Didn't they tell you? The UAW is gasping for air. They may go under for the last time.
I did not hear Gettlefinger offer any immediate help with the problems. All in the future. If GM is dead this month it would seem that the UAW would give immediate concessions to keep their head above water.
How many people are employed by the union itself? There's probably enough funding set aside to pay the organizers salaries for a few months, and the UAW could put their phone banks to use to organize and send out of work GM employees down South to picket the foreign automaker factories.
It wouldn't take too many busloads of unemployed line workers to create havoc with a bunch of suppliers and it won't take too many GM buses to block the gates to the parking lots of Mercedes and Nissan.
Dump the Big 3 on the curb and you may find that the social unrest isn't limited to Michigan.
My years as an elected official of the UAW were misguided in that management went beyond what a reasonable person could expect. With good intension's I expected to have an adversarial relationship with the perceived wicked management. However, even if they said NO, they really meant that I needed to make a rational and sane case for my request. In doing so they showed concern and addressed issues in a timely manner. Many times dealing with issues that went beyond the workplace. So I don't understand the evil management myth. Its either the history of decades ago or just a lack of communication. If anything I see a need to address performance issues within the union membership. They understood that folks just have issues from home which sometime in their work history make them less than the best employee possible. They went above and beyond to be fair and offer many programs to deal with these issues. Divorce isn't the companies concern, but can effect the performance of an employee. Health issues, attendance, disrespect for others, doing the right thing, and all types of unacceptable behavior are taken into consideration and just discipline issued. They are running a business and have to expect that their employees add value to the business.
I learned from them and respect their fairness. My professionalism and skills with people are much better since. Add to that the negotiating abilities and all was not a waste of time. However, it wasn't my forte. Never did they belittle me on any shortcomings. I have full confidence in management/labor relations and feel they are doing a fine job considering all they have to deal with. As a whole we all make our contribution to make the company one of the best places to work.
"If there is hope long term -- for the unionized Big Three companies and for the UAW -- it rests in dealing with the unfinished business of the 1980s: unionizing the unorganized transplants." T
I don't see this happening. The transplants have worked very hard at making work and pay conditions desirable enough to keep the unions out. Pay is very close to UAW levels..... the differences are in the work rules, the ability to dump dead wood and problems, and the attitudes of the workers.
While I can't speak from experience with the auto industry, I did see how Canon Copier handled their U.S. workforce - They hired temps from a temp service. They had to wear Temp Company Tshirts to make them immediately identifiable. After 3 years the Temps were considered eligible for direct employment with Canon. Pay and benefits were very good for direct employees. Temps didn't make much. However to get hired took several interviews and a consesus vote from workers and management. While there was no union direct hire employees had a lot of input into how things were done, and how workers were treated.
This meant a very select workforce and a group culture, even among Americans. People who didn't fit didn't get in. I thought it was a very good system, frankly.
I don't see it being easily attacked by the classic UAW approach of "You're unhappy and we will force Management to listen to you". The workers weren't unhappy, and management was already listening to them. The unhappy workers never made it past the Temp Employment process.
Sometimes, to an extent, the pay difference plays a big difference in pulling a cord or not......The labor guy would think that why don't the big guys with the fat checks come down and pull the cord.... :sick:
You left out one minor detail. Most are right to work states. The UAW is not going to be successful in any of those states. If half the workers know they will get all the benefits and save the union dues they will opt out. The Union has to represent them whether they are dues paying members or not.
It wouldn't take too many busloads of unemployed line workers to create havoc with a bunch of suppliers and it won't take too many GM buses to block the gates to the parking lots of Mercedes and Nissan.
The more thuggish the UAW becomes, the less sympathy they will get from the average citizen and congress, and the more they will lose. Big 3 management may have been stupid enough to be held hostage by the UAW but the rest of the US is not.
IF all the unions in the country could get together and put forth a challenge to the pay and benefits that are paid to some (non Union) then I could see something happening.
But, it will never happen. To many people watch out only for themselves.
That could depend on how many average citizens are also out of work.
My Ford Mechanic friend that is laid off blames the UAW for the woes in the auto industry. I don't think the 10 million workers unemployed right now will have any sympathy for the overpaid UAW members. Especially the ones that do not have to go and beat the pavement each week to get their unemployment check. At one time the UAW was a symbol for what is good with Unions. That probably ended 30 years ago.
No rubber room cartoons for the 1000s that have already gotten laid off at dealerships around the country. Only the elitist UAW workers get special treatment. No the average out of work person is not feeling bad for the UAW.
IF all the unions in the country could get together and put forth a challenge to the pay and benefits that are paid to some (non Union) then I could see something happening.
We have the AFL-CIO that does just that. However many of the majors have opted out. Two of the largest dropped out, the NEA and Teamsters. As our country goes more toward the environmental and information technology base, people do not like being associated with Union Thug mentality. I know in 1970 when we voted to go Teamster instead of IBEW I was not happy and lead several big protests to no avail. The telephone operators outnumbered the technicians 10 to 1 and they voted us all into the Teamsters. I would not speak to the IBEW President for several years as I felt he dropped the ball and fed us to the wolves. I got over it and got elected to the Teamster board of trustees. You can't beat em join em.
Most people I know here in CA are anti Union. Most do not have a clue how tough it will be retiring on SS without a decent pension.
Dallasdude I went to Jr high, and high school in Stockton. I have many friends and family there. I beg them all the time to move to Dallas. No takers yet, but darn the economy is screwed out there.
>My Ford Mechanic friend that is laid off blames the UAW for the woes in the auto industry.
How does he feel about the government who let the foreign makers come into the market without tariffs? And built plants here that undercut the US brands?
How does he feel about the government that doesn't do anything to control the UAW's high wages and benefits?
Workers who got three days' notice their factory was shutting its doors have occupied the building and say they won't go home without assurances they'll get severance and vacation pay they say they are owed.
About 200 union workers occupied the Republic Windows and Doors plant in shifts Saturday while union leaders outside criticized a Wall Street bailout they say is leaving laborers behind.
Leah Fried, an organizer with the United Electrical Workers, said the Chicago-based vinyl window manufacturer failed to give 60 days' notice required by law before shutting down.
During the peaceful takeover, workers have been shoveling snow and cleaning the building, Fried said.
"We're doing something we haven't since the 1930s, so we're trying to make it work," Fried said.
Protest organizers said the company can't pay employees because its creditor, Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America, won't let them. Crain's Chicago Business reported that Republic Windows' monthly sales had fallen to $2.9 million from $4 million during the past month. In a memo to the union, obtained by the business journal, Republic CEO Rich Gillman said the company had "no choice but to shut our doors."
Bank of America received $25 billion from the government's financial bailout package.
"Across cultures, religions, union and nonunion, we all say this bailout was a shame," said Richard Berg, president of Teamsters Local 743. "If this bailout should go to anything, it should go to the workers of this country."
Outside the plant, protesters wore stickers and carried signs that said, "You got bailed out, we got sold out."
Larry Spivack, regional director for American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, Council 31, said the peaceful action will add to Chicago's rich history in the labor movement, which includes the 1886 Haymarket affair, when Chicago laborers and anarchists gathering in a square on the city's west side drew national attention when an unidentified person threw a bomb at police.
"The history of workers is built on issues like this here today," Spivack said.
Representatives of Republic Windows did not immediately respond Saturday to calls and e-mails seeking comment.
Police spokeswoman Laura Kubiak said authorities were aware of the situation and officers were patrolling the area.
Workers were angered when company officials didn't show up for a meeting Friday that had been arranged by U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez, a Chicago Democrat, Fried said. Union officials said another meeting with the company is scheduled for Monday afternoon.
"We're going to stay here until we win justice," said Blanca Funes, 55, of Chicago, after occupying the building for several hours. Speaking in Spanish, Funes said she fears losing her home without the wages she feels she's owed. A 13-year employee of Republic, she estimated her family can make do for three months without her paycheck. Most of the factory's workers are Hispanic
The Japanese had kamikaze pilots and you think that's a good thing? Hundreds of young pilots futilely sacrificed their lives! I guess those Toyota workers just toss themselves into a steel press if the tolerance on a gasoline filler door is off by a 10,000th of a millimeter. I guess you think it's a good thing to work yourself to death while forsaking your family and friends for the good of your Asian masters. I guess you also think the Emperor is God.
Can someone speak to the retirement plans of the foreign brands compared to the retirement plans of the US manufacturers?
I believe that I read somewhere that Toyota and Honda in this country offer 401K with matching, just like the majority of non-auto companies. Very few companies are left with pension plans. Anybody who thinks pensions and health care supplied by your company are normal are living 30 years ago.
I heard the UAW is expected to take a 40% pay cut to then make the same as transplant workers. So we are talking about taking a person making a little over $1000 a week and asking them to switch to $600 a week.
We all just elected a president wanting to cut taxes for families making less than $75k a year or $1442 a week. People making $1442 a week need help in Barrack's eye.
GM sells about 200 billion dollars a year worth of cars. The avg buyer puts down 10% so $180 billion dollars have to be loaned out each year by banks for GM to stay in business. So no wonder Toyota sales are down 43%. There is a credit crunch that is killing the big3. Give them the loans and get on with fixing the overall economy so that hundreds of billions of dollars a year can be loaned to car buyers. Too Too much discussion on what amounts to $100 out of $60,000 when you scale the auto bailout to the size of American economy.
The rest of us who don't need a bailout will be the ones who do for our country. In 4 years, Obama and Pelosi can get booted out if this bailout is deemed a mistake. My view is that the 28 other more major financial issues facing our country also need attention from Congress.
My Ford Mechanic friend that is laid off blames the UAW for the woes in the auto industry.
I'm not sure that the UAW or even non-UAW workers in Michigan realize the mentality of most of the country. From reading these boards it seems that the UAW sees a brotherhood and pride in having protected workers, even non-union workers.
Most of the country sees a bunch of overpaid and over-benefitted whiners who hold companies hostage until they get their way. They see three formerly great companies collapsing with a significant part of the blame due to the UAW.
So while the UAW may feel that the whole country will stand up for them, the reality is that most people want the UAW gone, because they've helped destroy a formerly very good auto industry and are going to cost the rest of us large $$ in taxes.
We all want a vibrant domestic auto industry, and it is sad that the vibrant companies have to be foreign nameplates. The UAW is significantly responsible for this.
How does he feel about the government who let the foreign makers come into the market without tariffs? And built plants here that undercut the US brands?
Let me rephrase:
"How does he feel about the government who encouraged competition by not restricting trade? And allowed new companies to compete with plants in the US who also stimulate the economy?"
I did not vote for any candidate that voted for the $700b bailout. It is the Democrat Congress that pushed for all the money for the banks and insurance companies. Republicans as a group were against the bailouts. A few were persuaded and noted. I say vote them all out next time they are up for election. This government and the next are not for the working middle class...
"Across cultures, religions, union and nonunion, we all say this bailout was a shame," said Richard Berg, president of Teamsters Local 743. "If this bailout should go to anything, it should go to the workers of this country."
Outside the plant, protesters wore stickers and carried signs that said, "You got bailed out, we got sold out."
Whether it is 1 person or 200 or 2000 it hurts each individual.
So no wonder Toyota sales are down 43%. There is a credit crunch that is killing the big3. Give them the loans and get on with fixing the overall economy so that hundreds of billions of dollars a year can be loaned to car buyers.
That was then, this is NOW. Hopefully lenders will not do like they did in the past giving loans to people that could not pay them back. Or worse yet taking equity from their homes to finance that Tahoe they always wanted. Then could not afford the gas when it hit $4.50 a gallon. You give loans to the Big3 you could be liable for loans to the imports building here. Why is that fair market giving money to one competitor and not the other?
Most of the country sees a bunch of overpaid and over-benefitted whiners who hold companies hostage until they get their way.
That is the absolute truth. Auto mechanics work by the job. They get a percentage of the take. Warranty work is notoriously low pay. Same GM or Ford pays for that as pays the over priced UAW guys that left the screw out that caused the failure that ended up in the shop for repair. Remember it is the shop mechanics that see the flaws left by the UAW workers. They have good reason to despise the UAW. They feel the UAW is the reason for the loss of profit & market share over the years.
How does he feel about the government who let the foreign makers come into the market without tariffs?
I don't know, never asked him. I know how I feel. It gives US a much higher standard of living than the other countries. We buy a Jaguar for about 10 grand less than the poor bloke in the UK where it is built. That is what free trade buys US. You go into a 100 average homes in any foreign country, then do the same here. Tell me who has the most big flat screen TVs and a TV in every room etc etc... I can bet you won't find a country anymore affluent than here. I walked into homes built out of packing crates in the Arctic Eskimo villages. They had a TV that was half the size of the room and 10 family members huddled around it. Only in America.
1. What's wrong with Toyota being in the United States, employing American workers? How is that bad?..... unless you're unhappy that (like almost all of the rest of America), they're not UAW?.
2. a. UAW Retiree, "I'm having a wonderful day spending time with my children and grandchildren on this beautiful Sunday afternoon!" Toyota Retiree, "Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart!" 2.b. UAW Employee- My company is bankrupt, and I'm out of work. Toyota Employee - My company is paying bonuses again!
I just don't understand the mentality that says that it's better to drive the company out of business than to accept that you can't keep eating all the cake. But, UAW workers are special, and better than the other employees of GM, right?
3. The Japanese built their plants here because of tarrifs. However, they were doing just fine even when they were only importing cars. The government put limits on how many cars they could import, so the prices of their cars went up but people kept buying them. The government fixed the dollar so that the exchange rate made Japanese cars more expensive but people kept buying them. One of the things that I remember is expecting that the American companies would keep the prices of their cars down - or even lower them when the Japanese were forced to raise theirs. Lower prices would have given people a great reason to buy American. But they didn't - nope. Detroit just raised their prices too. Note that the Koreans are making big inroads and they are importing their cars. And kids, the Chinese are coming, maybe not for 5 years but they're coming.
4. You really want tariffs? you think that everyone in America should pay more for their cars - so you can keep your fat retirements? You really think that the rest of America is going to support that?. Anyhow, how is THAT going to work? Will the Daewoos that GM imports be exempt, but the Honda's built in Maryland be taxed?
I really want American companies to succeed, but look what happened to the railroads. They were heavily unionized and the trucking companies nearly put them out of business. The big unionized Airlines... what happened to them? GM will follow their path, if they don't change.
5, The "Buy American" resort to patriotism is dead. It has just been used too many times... without the big 3 fixing themselves.
The "Buy American" Slogan had worn thin aready then. Here's a quote from the article:
It is the consensus that Detroit's products have improved vastly in recent years, but the Japanese cars have also improved so much that gaps remain. Big Three auto executives go one step further, insisting that their products are now comparable to Japan's. But American auto makers also claimed parity in the 1980's when, as Mr. Iacocca now admits, domestic vehicles were demonstrably inferior... Longer term, nationalistic enthusiasm for American vehicles won't help Detroit nearly as much as would matching Japanese competition. When Japanese politicians offered only grudging support for the Persian Gulf war, some surveys suggested that Americans, in a burst of patriotism, would be turning to Chevys and Fords. Yet during 1991 the Big Three lost market share and the Japanese gained.
6. Finally, before you start complaining about the Japanese keeping American cars out with tariffs, here's an article from 2002 that says that Japan has no tariffs on passenger cars. I believe that's been true for a lot longer than that/ http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/09/12/japan.cars/index.html
Japan itself already has no tariffs on passengers cars, trucks and parts, and although the United States, its major export market, also imposes no duties on cars, it has a tariff of 25 percent on trucks.
g : wrote " I did not vote for any candidate that voted for the $700b bailout. It is the Democrat Congress that pushed for all the money for the banks and insurance companies. Republicans as a group were against the bailouts. A few were persuaded and noted. I say vote them all out next time they are up for election. This government and the next are not for the working middle class..."
Verily they did, but alas they let financial hysteria take root.Darn expensive, perhaps to the power of 10. The Rtc was passed for 1/2 a trillion dollars, they spent 153 b on the S & l 'S.Don't get me wrong, congress spent all the money but on the S&l's alone only 153 b. This one will prove very expensive Financial hysteria costs much more than then our actual problem.If our dim witted house republicans had a inkling of economics they would comprehend cost: benefits but as they are false republicans, scarily even more lawyers they endorse budget deficits and inflation of the national debt. My horse for a true Republican,
Some Asian automakers are showering U.S. plant workers with bonuses averaging up to $10,000 while Detroit’s two biggest carmakers have scrapped profit-sharing checks this year because of mounting automotive losses, reports the Detroit News. Toyota awarded each of its 5,600 hourly employees at its largest U.S. plant in Georgetown, Ky., an average of $10,131 for 2005. The plant builds the Camry, the best-selling car in the nation.
General wage increases (GWI) keep on giving until you retire, compound with each GWI added, and a bonus is a one time thing. I rather have a $1 an hour raise or 3% increase than a $10,000 bonus. If you do the math its more than $2000 a year for many years and the bonus is a one time thing for one year. Any UAW member is better served with a GWI as opposed to a bonus.
You make my point exactly - but we take the opposite side of the equation.
General wage increases (GWI) keep on giving until you retire, compound with each GWI added, and a bonus is a one time thing. I rather have a $1 an hour raise or 3% increase than a $10,000 bonus. If you do the math its more than $2000 a year for many years and the bonus is a one time thing for one year. Any UAW member is better served with a GWI as opposed to a bonus.
Now, you're the employer and you have hundreds of thousands of employees each getting the $2,000 a year - even when business is bad, Why, after a couple of decades of doing that, even the biggest company in the world could end up like GM !
>"If you do the math its more than $2000 a year for many years and the bonus is a one time thing for one year. Any UAW member is better served with a GWI as opposed to a bonus."
Lokki replied: "Now, you're the employer and you have hundreds of thousands of employees each getting the $2,000 a year - even when business is bad, Why, after a couple of decades of doing that, even the biggest company in the world could end up like GM ! ".
I agree 100%.
To me a bonus is supposed to be a "Thank You" for a job well done and helping the company to make a profit for this time frame.
GWI is stupid on the part of the company. Why would they want to continue paying a bonus in the form of GWI when the company is going in the toilet?
And FWIW many corporations are getting away from pension plans and replacing them with good 401K matching plans. IBM was phasing in that direction when I retired in '96. Employees hired before a certain date were not affected, but those hired later were affected more and more according to hire date.
My wife retired (baby) from IBM in 1991 and my in-laws still work there. That company was in bad shape and made some good decisions to return to a strong leading technology firm.
The D3 never reallt made the right decisions and are at the brink in 2 weeks. There are many reasons why a bankruptcy is called for and a bailout only delays the inevitable.
But the biggest one surrounds the inability to shed legacy costs at the same time as downsizing by 50% to return to profitability. Those who believe $34B will no doubt find more reasons to give after March more good $$$ after bad.
You can't do it in 3 months and the systems are not set up today to make it happen even in 1 year. It's really too late but blinders will prevail as usual.
Any UAW member is better served with a GWI as opposed to a bonus.
What about the company that is not making enough to pay that buck an hour more? I watched the culinary workers in the oilfields lose 30% of their wages when the price of oil went in the toilet. The IBEW electricians lost 20% during that same time in Alaska. When has the UAW ever given back wages when the Big 3 were losing money. I am not referring to this last lame agreement where they dumped the losses on new hires and kept the gold for the senior employees. When GM lost $72 billion over the last 4 years and $38 b just last year. Did the workers volunteer to take a $5 per hour cut in pay? The biggest UAW rip-off is tacking retiree benefits to the members wage package. IF the UAW was looking out for the workers they would have insisted and rightly so that the Big 3 have a pension plan that is fully funded. So in the event of one or more automakers going broke those retirees would be covered. That is what you have a Union for. To protect your interest on the job and after you retire. I get my check from a Teamster Trust that has current and past Union members on the board. They look out for me and my retirement. I would hate to think that lame brained bunch I worked for was holding control of my retirement. GM and the UAW do not deserve to survive. They have been inept at doing what they are supposed to do for decades. And now the poor tax payer and future tax payers will be burdened with the mess they have made.
Excellent point. It's also worth noting that a bonus-based compensation structure gives a company the flexibility to ride out hard times without laying off employees. When business is bad, the company can conserve cash by reducing or eliminating bonuses. But if a company is locked into an inflexible wage-based pay structure, it may have to resort to layoffs sooner rather than later.
Japan itself already has no tariffs on passengers cars, trucks and parts, and although the United States, its major export market, also imposes no duties on cars, it has a tariff of 25 percent on trucks.
Thank you for setting the record straight on tariffs. That has been the hue and cry of the UAW whiners. They want a level playing field. Well then we need to drop our 25% tariff on trucks and make it level. Japan is far and away the biggest importer of cars to the USA. Yet our automakers have not been able to keep up. Admitting defeat is not an American tradition.
The UAW would like the deck stacked against any competition so they can keep on featherbedding as they have for the past 40 or more years. The more I learn about that lame Union the more I agree with the rest of the US workforce. They do not deserve to survive. As a pensioner, I feel for those retirees. I do believe they had the obligation to see that they were in good financial condition when they were making more money than 99% of the manufacturing workforce in America. If GM fails and they lose part of their pension and benefits they may have to join millions of other retirees in low paying part time jobs, like greeters at WalMart.
Two of my neighbors that are retired are looking for work due to the 401K crash. Another already went back to his part time yard maintenance business that he retired from 10 years ago. Two of them are past 70. Nothing is 100% for sure...
when would they finally realize they were killing the master that feeds them? And the answer is...almost never. It comes down to the next day or so for them to decide to give concessions. I'd rather have 20 more years at $15 an hour than only 3 more weeks of a better paying job, but that is not how the UAW think. To give up jobs bank is to give up nothing. That does nothing to bring health to GM. They actually think that they could consider this as a major concession. I think it needs to be the tip of the iceberg.
I hope the UAW take a 30% wage cut and extract 2000 pages from their union contract. The alternative of bankruptcy and then Asia owning everything is what I call colonization.
We have a $15 an hour job.
Japan is busy designing a robot to replace us.
Many parts suppliers that send parts to the car assembly plant are Japan owned.
Record profit growth at our company from which a tiny bit is given to us and the rest stays in Japan.
"How does he feel about the government who encouraged competition by not restricting trade? And allowed new companies to compete with plants in the US who also stimulate the economy?"
This is good business to build plant here by Toyota/Honda. They are closer to the consumer, we buy most of the cars produced, and they save big time on labor. So why don't they just shut down the plants in Japan which have wages much higher than here in America? Almost a third of the cost of an import is put back into Japan to run such things as health care and other govt expenses. By their own accounts they have the highest paid employees in Japan. By custom they pay an extra months wages in the form of bonus aka the 13th month. They know they lack natural resources and look to bring in industries to support the mother land.
They seek every advantage and know the India, Korea, China, and many others are out there wanting these same industries. We have all but given up textiles, steel, machine tools, and now autos are at stake.
Is it just envy that drives our nation? Can we not see that unions are the folks who brought us weekends (to both union and non union) along with other countless, taken for granted, benefits through out the years? If that union job goes away we all lose the multiplier effect of those wages spent in the economy. Therefore, we lose more than one union job, we lose countless other jobs as demand decreases. Not to mention that most big corporations calculate pay by the prevailing wage in a given area. Hence, a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area. Certainly you can believe that these benevolent corporation would pay any more than they had to. They only need to be competitive enough to attract that next best job candidate from their competition.
Its in our nations history, that men worked in the steel mills. 364 days a year, for 12 hours a day. A tater was the common lunch, if he fell into the molten steel vat, the family had no safety net, they more than likely went to the almshouse if they lost their bread winner. Somebody fought the battle to end this madness. For a man to work so hard for life's bare needs (food, shelter, and clothes) is today considered less than civilized. If it not for organized labor, there would be no consumerism. Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class.
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
This is the big issue in a nutshell, A. if the big 3 fails now it will really hurt the US and obliterate Michigan. B. If you save the big 3 you will be saving and institution that needs to be replaced by more efficient UNION FREE auto makers. - LOOK TO TUCKER. Preston Tucker made an automobile, back in the 1940s, that was innovative even by today's technological standards. The big three bribed congressmen and the SEC to shut him down (see capture theory and "Preston Tucker: A Generation Too Late", by Gregory Rehmke). In his farewell speech, Preston warns the US public that some day the Germans and the Japanese will crush the American Auto makers by building a better mousetrap (read: car). Well the chickens have come home to roost, and the big three lost their IMMENSE advantage and are now going broke, and because we eliminated the true bad asses (like Tucker and all the other innovators who JUMPED out or NEVER went in the auto making business after watching Tucker get hauled in front of the SEC and congressional committees) are not around to take up the vacuum/slack. Remeber the big three are so inept that even though Japan and Germany and Korea came out of utter desimation and destruction they were still able to overcome the US/victors industrial might.
man, you've forgotten all the hard work of many who have gone to great lengths to explain that the UAW is the anti-thesis of a real union. The UAW has fallen in to the vat of self-importance, huge, ego, feed-me, feed-me, feed-me, I make the cars around here.
The Jobs Bank is the best way I have found to explain the excesses of the UAW and GM. Raspberry jelly donuts, warmed just how I like it, and some fresh Starbuck's French Roast coffee to go along with that.
They are going down, along with GM and Chrysler. A bailout only prolongs their misery they share with the U.S. They have bunkrupted GM. That fact is painfully obvious if one reads this column for months on end, like iluvmysephia1 does.
Can we not see that unions are the folks who brought us weekends (to both union and non union) along with other countless, taken for granted, benefits through out the years?
And it may be the Unions that destroy our automakers as well. You cannot have one without the other. No sales, no profit, no job, only jobs bank until the coffers run dry. Guess what the coffers are dry and GM has borrowed $66 billion to keep afloat. I say when they payoff their current debt we loan them some more...
a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area.
That may be as long as there is a company left in any given area. Ever hear the term boom town? Well just think of Detroit as a boom town. The boom is over and time to move on. That my friend is history. And it will be repeated over and over. The Big 3 went through similar trials in the late 1970s due to oil shortages. They did not learn a thing. Nor did the worker bees. They just follow the queen fat dumb and happy.
Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class.
They get bought by the welfare people on the South Side of Chicago. I have not bought a pair of shoes made in China. I am hoping my stock of US made shoes and sandals will last the rest of my life. Some have holes in the soles. If you own a pair of shoes made in China you have no room to complain. Same goes for all those UAW workers that shop at WalMart.
As I recall it was Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. of the Bush & Co whom called in this emergency. All the political grand standing isn't going to change a thing. We have NO choice but to bail out the banks, insurance, and even the auto companies. All hell would break loose if congress sat on their hands and did nothing. You have no earthly idea how this economy operates. There would be no gas at the pump, the shelves at the food store would be bare, not to mention rioting/looting.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. failed to mention that these big banks who swallowed the small banks would also be allowed to write of the little banks debt.
The financial world was fixated on Capitol Hill as Congress battled over the Bush administration's request for a $700 billion bailout of the banking industry. In the midst of this late-September drama, the Treasury Department issued a five-sentence notice that attracted almost no public attention.
But corporate tax lawyers quickly realized the enormous implications of the document: Administration officials had just given American banks a windfall of as much as $140 billion.
The sweeping change to two decades of tax policy escaped the notice of lawmakers for several days, as they remained consumed with the controversial bailout bill. When they found out, some legislators were furious. Some congressional staff members have privately concluded that the notice was illegal. But they have worried that saying so publicly could unravel several recent bank mergers made possible by the change and send the economy into an even deeper tailspin.
Can we not see that unions are the folks who brought us weekends (to both union and non union) along with other countless, taken for granted, benefits through out the years?
Sure, I can see it. I can also see that unions have morphed into businesses that provide services to customers in return for payments. Just as H&R Block claims that it can get me a larger refund if I pay it to prepare my tax returns, so unions claim that they can secure higher pay if workers pay them for representation.
That's why I'm not anti-union. I see unions as businesses - part of the service industry. There's nothing special about unions today - no reason to join hands & sing "Solidarity".
The term of REDLINING would give a company the ability to set the max on any given job and therefore not go beyond the going/prevailing wage in any one job. Your not going to tell me that if that employer is having economic issues, that an employee should work below the prevailing wage so as to bail out the employer? If their competition isn't in the same quagmire, why should the work force of the inefficiently operated employer be responsible?
However, this was all about the Japanese auto maker giving their employees $10,000 in bonus and 0 for GM. As if the bonus is superior to GWI, from an employees point of view. We weren't discussing the pros or cons to the employer, but we all know they want to demonize all thats UAW here. Blinded by the fact that our whole economy is not going to be better if the UAW jobs go away and or the fact that we can't afford to do away with anything in our current situation.
Sure, I can see it. I can also see that unions have morphed into businesses that provide services to customers in return for payments. Just as H&R Block claims that it can get me a larger refund if I pay it to prepare my tax returns, so unions claim that they can secure higher pay if workers pay them for representation.
Surely you can google the average union/non union wages? Funny you should mention tax refunds, USA Today sent the same tax papers to 10 different preparers, and they got 10 different returns...........Thats worth mentioning.
Thank you for setting the record straight on tariffs. That has been the hue and cry of the UAW whiners. They want a level playing field. Well then we need to drop our 25% tariff on trucks and make it level. Japan is far and away the biggest importer of cars to the USA. Yet our automakers have not been able to keep up. Admitting defeat is not an American tradition.
For eons, Japan had tariffs on food, to protect its agri industry. This was stealing from the consumer.
All industries should be considered. Few people even know that MAZAK has all but taken the machine tool industry over. Highly skilled workers lost jobs and these ain't your typical autoworkers either.
Comments
Were they all legal and union tradesmen?
Only if they are compensated if they make money and fined if they take foolish risks. I'm of the opinion that there are few good money managers out there. Most of these folks who can't make it in the sciences/engineering, change majors. 70% of the schools student bodies are in the business schools. You have no earthly idea of the scams being currently perpetrated on Wall Street right at the present. They buy shorting on a stock, they create a rumor, sell the shorting as the rumor mill factors in the rumor into the price, and they aggressively buy the stock. A spokesman comes out to dis-spell the rumor, mean while they have made money on shorting, and then again on the stock as the rumor is factored out of the price. Special 10% bonds for their filthy rich friends. Special deals for brokerage houses best customers. I could go on. But the point is that they would find/create a way to pocket social security money. Capital punishment is the only deterrent for these white collar criminals.
Since you put it that way I would say they were all Non union.
I will not defend the building practices in CA. They are atrocious. It would make both my Uncles and step dad roll over in their graves. A few independent small contractors build using good materials and practices. Most homes I have looked at do not have a straight wall in them.
Not much residential Union work was used here in CA if any.
I did not hear Gettlefinger offer any immediate help with the problems. All in the future. If GM is dead this month it would seem that the UAW would give immediate concessions to keep their head above water.
It wouldn't take too many busloads of unemployed line workers to create havoc with a bunch of suppliers and it won't take too many GM buses to block the gates to the parking lots of Mercedes and Nissan.
Dump the Big 3 on the curb and you may find that the social unrest isn't limited to Michigan.
I learned from them and respect their fairness. My professionalism and skills with people are much better since. Add to that the negotiating abilities and all was not a waste of time. However, it wasn't my forte. Never did they belittle me on any shortcomings. I have full confidence in management/labor relations and feel they are doing a fine job considering all they have to deal with. As a whole we all make our contribution to make the company one of the best places to work.
I don't see this happening. The transplants have worked very hard at making work and pay conditions desirable enough to keep the unions out. Pay is very close to UAW levels..... the differences are in the work rules, the ability to dump dead wood and problems, and the attitudes of the workers.
While I can't speak from experience with the auto industry, I did see how Canon Copier handled their U.S. workforce - They hired temps from a temp service. They had to wear Temp Company Tshirts to make them immediately identifiable. After 3 years the Temps were considered eligible for direct employment with Canon. Pay and benefits were very good for direct employees. Temps didn't make much.
However to get hired took several interviews and a consesus vote from workers and management. While there was no union direct hire employees had a lot of input into how things were done, and how workers were treated.
This meant a very select workforce and a group culture, even among Americans. People who didn't fit didn't get in. I thought it was a very good system, frankly.
I don't see it being easily attacked by the classic UAW approach of "You're unhappy and we will force Management to listen to you". The workers weren't unhappy, and management was already listening to them. The unhappy workers never made it past the Temp Employment process.
The more thuggish the UAW becomes, the less sympathy they will get from the average citizen and congress, and the more they will lose. Big 3 management may have been stupid enough to be held hostage by the UAW but the rest of the US is not.
But, it will never happen. To many people watch out only for themselves.
That could depend on how many average citizens are also out of work.
I doubt that the few from Toyota Georgetown have the retirement that UAW has garnered for their US members through the last decades.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Ford Mechanic friend that is laid off blames the UAW for the woes in the auto industry. I don't think the 10 million workers unemployed right now will have any sympathy for the overpaid UAW members. Especially the ones that do not have to go and beat the pavement each week to get their unemployment check. At one time the UAW was a symbol for what is good with Unions. That probably ended 30 years ago.
No rubber room cartoons for the 1000s that have already gotten laid off at dealerships around the country. Only the elitist UAW workers get special treatment. No the average out of work person is not feeling bad for the UAW.
We have the AFL-CIO that does just that. However many of the majors have opted out. Two of the largest dropped out, the NEA and Teamsters. As our country goes more toward the environmental and information technology base, people do not like being associated with Union Thug mentality. I know in 1970 when we voted to go Teamster instead of IBEW I was not happy and lead several big protests to no avail. The telephone operators outnumbered the technicians 10 to 1 and they voted us all into the Teamsters. I would not speak to the IBEW President for several years as I felt he dropped the ball and fed us to the wolves. I got over it and got elected to the Teamster board of trustees. You can't beat em join em.
Most people I know here in CA are anti Union. Most do not have a clue how tough it will be retiring on SS without a decent pension.
How does he feel about the government who let the foreign makers come into the market without tariffs? And built plants here that undercut the US brands?
How does he feel about the government that doesn't do anything to control the UAW's high wages and benefits?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
About 200 union workers occupied the Republic Windows and Doors plant in shifts Saturday while union leaders outside criticized a Wall Street bailout they say is leaving laborers behind.
Leah Fried, an organizer with the United Electrical Workers, said the Chicago-based vinyl window manufacturer failed to give 60 days' notice required by law before shutting down.
During the peaceful takeover, workers have been shoveling snow and cleaning the building, Fried said.
"We're doing something we haven't since the 1930s, so we're trying to make it work," Fried said.
Protest organizers said the company can't pay employees because its creditor, Charlotte, N.C.-based Bank of America, won't let them. Crain's Chicago Business reported that Republic Windows' monthly sales had fallen to $2.9 million from $4 million during the past month. In a memo to the union, obtained by the business journal, Republic CEO Rich Gillman said the company had "no choice but to shut our doors."
Bank of America received $25 billion from the government's financial bailout package.
"Across cultures, religions, union and nonunion, we all say this bailout was a shame," said Richard Berg, president of Teamsters Local 743. "If this bailout should go to anything, it should go to the workers of this country."
Outside the plant, protesters wore stickers and carried signs that said, "You got bailed out, we got sold out."
Larry Spivack, regional director for American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, Council 31, said the peaceful action will add to Chicago's rich history in the labor movement, which includes the 1886 Haymarket affair, when Chicago laborers and anarchists gathering in a square on the city's west side drew national attention when an unidentified person threw a bomb at police.
"The history of workers is built on issues like this here today," Spivack said.
Representatives of Republic Windows did not immediately respond Saturday to calls and e-mails seeking comment.
Police spokeswoman Laura Kubiak said authorities were aware of the situation and officers were patrolling the area.
Workers were angered when company officials didn't show up for a meeting Friday that had been arranged by U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez, a Chicago Democrat, Fried said. Union officials said another meeting with the company is scheduled for Monday afternoon.
"We're going to stay here until we win justice," said Blanca Funes, 55, of Chicago, after occupying the building for several hours. Speaking in Spanish, Funes said she fears losing her home without the wages she feels she's owed. A 13-year employee of Republic, she estimated her family can make do for three months without her paycheck. Most of the factory's workers are Hispanic
I believe that I read somewhere that Toyota and Honda in this country offer 401K with matching, just like the majority of non-auto companies. Very few companies are left with pension plans. Anybody who thinks pensions and health care supplied by your company are normal are living 30 years ago.
We all just elected a president wanting to cut taxes for families making less than $75k a year or $1442 a week. People making $1442 a week need help in Barrack's eye.
GM sells about 200 billion dollars a year worth of cars. The avg buyer puts down 10% so $180 billion dollars have to be loaned out each year by banks for GM to stay in business. So no wonder Toyota sales are down 43%. There is a credit crunch that is killing the big3. Give them the loans and get on with fixing the overall economy so that hundreds of billions of dollars a year can be loaned to car buyers. Too Too much discussion on what amounts to $100 out of $60,000 when you scale the auto bailout to the size of American economy.
The rest of us who don't need a bailout will be the ones who do for our country. In 4 years, Obama and Pelosi can get booted out if this bailout is deemed a mistake. My view is that the 28 other more major financial issues facing our country also need attention from Congress.
I'm not sure that the UAW or even non-UAW workers in Michigan realize the mentality of most of the country. From reading these boards it seems that the UAW sees a brotherhood and pride in having protected workers, even non-union workers.
Most of the country sees a bunch of overpaid and over-benefitted whiners who hold companies hostage until they get their way. They see three formerly great companies collapsing with a significant part of the blame due to the UAW.
So while the UAW may feel that the whole country will stand up for them, the reality is that most people want the UAW gone, because they've helped destroy a formerly very good auto industry and are going to cost the rest of us large $$ in taxes.
We all want a vibrant domestic auto industry, and it is sad that the vibrant companies have to be foreign nameplates. The UAW is significantly responsible for this.
Let me rephrase:
"How does he feel about the government who encouraged competition by not restricting trade? And allowed new companies to compete with plants in the US who also stimulate the economy?"
Toyota Retiree, "Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart!"
Republicans as a group were against the bailouts. A few were persuaded and noted. I say vote them all out next time they are up for election. This government and the next are not for the working middle class...
"Across cultures, religions, union and nonunion, we all say this bailout was a shame," said Richard Berg, president of Teamsters Local 743. "If this bailout should go to anything, it should go to the workers of this country."
Outside the plant, protesters wore stickers and carried signs that said, "You got bailed out, we got sold out."
Whether it is 1 person or 200 or 2000 it hurts each individual.
So no wonder Toyota sales are down 43%. There is a credit crunch that is killing the big3. Give them the loans and get on with fixing the overall economy so that hundreds of billions of dollars a year can be loaned to car buyers.
That was then, this is NOW. Hopefully lenders will not do like they did in the past giving loans to people that could not pay them back. Or worse yet taking equity from their homes to finance that Tahoe they always wanted. Then could not afford the gas when it hit $4.50 a gallon. You give loans to the Big3 you could be liable for loans to the imports building here. Why is that fair market giving money to one competitor and not the other?
Most of the country sees a bunch of overpaid and over-benefitted whiners who hold companies hostage until they get their way.
That is the absolute truth. Auto mechanics work by the job. They get a percentage of the take. Warranty work is notoriously low pay. Same GM or Ford pays for that as pays the over priced UAW guys that left the screw out that caused the failure that ended up in the shop for repair. Remember it is the shop mechanics that see the flaws left by the UAW workers. They have good reason to despise the UAW. They feel the UAW is the reason for the loss of profit & market share over the years.
How does he feel about the government who let the foreign makers come into the market without tariffs?
I don't know, never asked him. I know how I feel. It gives US a much higher standard of living than the other countries. We buy a Jaguar for about 10 grand less than the poor bloke in the UK where it is built. That is what free trade buys US. You go into a 100 average homes in any foreign country, then do the same here. Tell me who has the most big flat screen TVs and a TV in every room etc etc... I can bet you won't find a country anymore affluent than here. I walked into homes built out of packing crates in the Arctic Eskimo villages. They had a TV that was half the size of the room and 10 family members huddled around it. Only in America.
2. a. UAW Retiree, "I'm having a wonderful day spending time with my children and grandchildren on this beautiful Sunday afternoon!"
Toyota Retiree, "Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart! Welcome to Wal~Mart!"
2.b. UAW Employee- My company is bankrupt, and I'm out of work.
Toyota Employee - My company is paying bonuses again!
By the way, nobody except the UAW gets that nice pension, you're talking about anymore http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=13359. GM hasn't been able to afford it since 2006.
I just don't understand the mentality that says that it's better to drive the company out of business than to accept that you can't keep eating all the cake. But, UAW workers are special, and better than the other employees of GM, right?
3. The Japanese built their plants here because of tarrifs. However, they were doing just fine even when they were only importing cars. The government put limits on how many cars they could import, so the prices of their cars went up but people kept buying them. The government fixed the dollar so that the exchange rate made Japanese cars more expensive but people kept buying them. One of the things that I remember is expecting that the American companies would keep the prices of their cars down - or even lower them when the Japanese were forced to raise theirs. Lower prices would have given people a great reason to buy American. But they didn't - nope. Detroit just raised their prices too. Note that the Koreans are making big inroads and they are importing their cars. And kids, the Chinese are coming, maybe not for 5 years but they're coming.
4. You really want tariffs? you think that everyone in America should pay more for their cars - so you can keep your fat retirements? You really think that the rest of America is going to support that?. Anyhow, how is THAT going to work? Will the Daewoos that GM imports be exempt, but the Honda's built in Maryland be taxed?
I really want American companies to succeed, but look what happened to the railroads. They were heavily unionized and the trucking companies nearly put them out of business. The big unionized Airlines... what happened to them? GM will follow their path, if they don't change.
5, The "Buy American" resort to patriotism is dead. It has just been used too many times... without the big 3 fixing themselves.
Here's a NYT article from January 1992...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE2D91631F935A15752C0A96495826- - - 0&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=1
The "Buy American" Slogan had worn thin aready then. Here's a quote from the article:
It is the consensus that Detroit's products have improved vastly in recent years, but the Japanese cars have also improved so much that gaps remain. Big Three auto executives go one step further, insisting that their products are now comparable to Japan's. But American auto makers also claimed parity in the 1980's when, as Mr. Iacocca now admits, domestic vehicles were demonstrably inferior... Longer term, nationalistic enthusiasm for American vehicles won't help Detroit nearly as much as would matching Japanese competition. When Japanese politicians offered only grudging support for the Persian Gulf war, some surveys suggested that Americans, in a burst of patriotism, would be turning to Chevys and Fords. Yet during 1991 the Big Three lost market share and the Japanese gained.
6. Finally, before you start complaining about the Japanese keeping American cars out with tariffs, here's an article from 2002 that says that Japan has no tariffs on passenger cars. I believe that's been true for a lot longer than that/
http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/09/12/japan.cars/index.html
Japan itself already has no tariffs on passengers cars, trucks and parts, and although the United States, its major export market, also imposes no duties on cars, it has a tariff of 25 percent on trucks.
" I did not vote for any candidate that voted for the $700b bailout. It is the Democrat Congress that pushed for all the money for the banks and insurance companies.
Republicans as a group were against the bailouts. A few were persuaded and noted. I say vote them all out next time they are up for election. This government and the next are not for the working middle class..."
Verily they did, but alas they let financial hysteria take root.Darn expensive, perhaps to the power of 10. The Rtc was passed for 1/2 a trillion dollars, they spent 153 b on the S & l 'S.Don't get me wrong, congress spent all the money but on the S&l's alone only 153 b. This one will prove very expensive Financial hysteria costs much more than then our actual problem.If our dim witted house republicans had a inkling of economics they would comprehend cost: benefits but as they are false republicans, scarily even more lawyers they endorse budget deficits and inflation of the national debt. My horse for a true Republican,
2006 article
Toyota pays $10K bonuses - GM, Ford, $0
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-workers-get-10000-bonuses-gmford-workers-get-- 0.html
Some Asian automakers are showering U.S. plant workers with bonuses averaging up to $10,000 while Detroit’s two biggest carmakers have scrapped profit-sharing checks this year because of mounting automotive losses, reports the Detroit News. Toyota awarded each of its 5,600 hourly employees at its largest U.S. plant in Georgetown, Ky., an average of $10,131 for 2005. The plant builds the Camry, the best-selling car in the nation.
http://www.japaneconomynews.com/2007/02/17/shunto-japans-spring-wage-offensive/
http://www.japaneconomynews.com/category/automotive/page/3/
General wage increases (GWI) keep on giving until you retire, compound with each GWI added, and a bonus is a one time thing. I rather have a $1 an hour raise or 3% increase than a $10,000 bonus. If you do the math its more than $2000 a year for many years and the bonus is a one time thing for one year. Any UAW member is better served with a GWI as opposed to a bonus.
Now, you're the employer and you have hundreds of thousands of employees each getting the $2,000 a year - even when business is bad, Why, after a couple of decades of doing that, even the biggest company in the world could end up like GM !
The UAW advantage will be history.
MARK MY WORDS. It happens this coming year. Simple economics will prevail. A new age is already dawning in American Made Automotive Industry.
Change is inevitable and everlasting.
Regards,
OW
Lokki replied: "Now, you're the employer and you have hundreds of thousands of employees each getting the $2,000 a year - even when business is bad, Why, after a couple of decades of doing that, even the biggest company in the world could end up like GM ! ".
I agree 100%.
To me a bonus is supposed to be a "Thank You" for a job well done and helping the company to make a profit for this time frame.
GWI is stupid on the part of the company. Why would they want to continue paying a bonus in the form of GWI when the company is going in the toilet?
And FWIW many corporations are getting away from pension plans and replacing them with good 401K matching plans. IBM was phasing in that direction when I retired in '96. Employees hired before a certain date were not affected, but those hired later were affected more and more according to hire date.
Kip
The D3 never reallt made the right decisions and are at the brink in 2 weeks. There are many reasons why a bankruptcy is called for and a bailout only delays the inevitable.
But the biggest one surrounds the inability to shed legacy costs at the same time as downsizing by 50% to return to profitability. Those who believe $34B will no doubt find more reasons to give after March more good $$$ after bad.
You can't do it in 3 months and the systems are not set up today to make it happen even in 1 year. It's really too late but blinders will prevail as usual.
Regards,
OW
What about the company that is not making enough to pay that buck an hour more? I watched the culinary workers in the oilfields lose 30% of their wages when the price of oil went in the toilet. The IBEW electricians lost 20% during that same time in Alaska. When has the UAW ever given back wages when the Big 3 were losing money. I am not referring to this last lame agreement where they dumped the losses on new hires and kept the gold for the senior employees. When GM lost $72 billion over the last 4 years and $38 b just last year. Did the workers volunteer to take a $5 per hour cut in pay? The biggest UAW rip-off is tacking retiree benefits to the members wage package. IF the UAW was looking out for the workers they would have insisted and rightly so that the Big 3 have a pension plan that is fully funded. So in the event of one or more automakers going broke those retirees would be covered. That is what you have a Union for. To protect your interest on the job and after you retire. I get my check from a Teamster Trust that has current and past Union members on the board. They look out for me and my retirement. I would hate to think that lame brained bunch I worked for was holding control of my retirement. GM and the UAW do not deserve to survive. They have been inept at doing what they are supposed to do for decades. And now the poor tax payer and future tax payers will be burdened with the mess they have made.
Thank you for setting the record straight on tariffs. That has been the hue and cry of the UAW whiners. They want a level playing field. Well then we need to drop our 25% tariff on trucks and make it level. Japan is far and away the biggest importer of cars to the USA. Yet our automakers have not been able to keep up. Admitting defeat is not an American tradition.
The UAW would like the deck stacked against any competition so they can keep on featherbedding as they have for the past 40 or more years. The more I learn about that lame Union the more I agree with the rest of the US workforce. They do not deserve to survive. As a pensioner, I feel for those retirees. I do believe they had the obligation to see that they were in good financial condition when they were making more money than 99% of the manufacturing workforce in America. If GM fails and they lose part of their pension and benefits they may have to join millions of other retirees in low paying part time jobs, like greeters at WalMart.
Two of my neighbors that are retired are looking for work due to the 401K crash. Another already went back to his part time yard maintenance business that he retired from 10 years ago. Two of them are past 70. Nothing is 100% for sure...
I hope the UAW take a 30% wage cut and extract 2000 pages from their union contract. The alternative of bankruptcy and then Asia owning everything is what I call colonization.
We have a $15 an hour job.
Japan is busy designing a robot to replace us.
Many parts suppliers that send parts to the car assembly plant are Japan owned.
Record profit growth at our company from which a tiny bit is given to us and the rest stays in Japan.
This is good business to build plant here by Toyota/Honda. They are closer to the consumer, we buy most of the cars produced, and they save big time on labor. So why don't they just shut down the plants in Japan which have wages much higher than here in America? Almost a third of the cost of an import is put back into Japan to run such things as health care and other govt expenses. By their own accounts they have the highest paid employees in Japan. By custom they pay an extra months wages in the form of bonus aka the 13th month. They know they lack natural resources and look to bring in industries to support the mother land.
They seek every advantage and know the India, Korea, China, and many others are out there wanting these same industries. We have all but given up textiles, steel, machine tools, and now autos are at stake.
Is it just envy that drives our nation? Can we not see that unions are the folks who brought us weekends (to both union and non union) along with other countless, taken for granted, benefits through out the years? If that union job goes away we all lose the multiplier effect of those wages spent in the economy. Therefore, we lose more than one union job, we lose countless other jobs as demand decreases. Not to mention that most big corporations calculate pay by the prevailing wage in a given area. Hence, a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area. Certainly you can believe that these benevolent corporation would pay any more than they had to. They only need to be competitive enough to attract that next best job candidate from their competition.
Its in our nations history, that men worked in the steel mills. 364 days a year, for 12 hours a day. A tater was the common lunch, if he fell into the molten steel vat, the family had no safety net, they more than likely went to the almshouse if they lost their bread winner. Somebody fought the battle to end this madness. For a man to work so hard for life's bare needs (food, shelter, and clothes) is today considered less than civilized. If it not for organized labor, there would be no consumerism. Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class.
"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."
A. if the big 3 fails now it will really hurt the US and obliterate Michigan.
B. If you save the big 3 you will be saving and institution that needs to be replaced by more efficient UNION FREE auto makers. - LOOK TO TUCKER.
Preston Tucker made an automobile, back in the 1940s, that was innovative even by today's technological standards. The big three bribed congressmen and the SEC to shut him down (see capture theory and "Preston Tucker: A Generation Too Late", by Gregory Rehmke). In his farewell speech, Preston warns the US public that some day the Germans and the Japanese will crush the American Auto makers by building a better mousetrap (read: car). Well the chickens have come home to roost, and the big three lost their IMMENSE advantage and are now going broke, and because we eliminated the true bad asses (like Tucker and all the other innovators who JUMPED out or NEVER went in the auto making business after watching Tucker get hauled in front of the SEC and congressional committees) are not around to take up the vacuum/slack. Remeber the big three are so inept that even though Japan and Germany and Korea came out of utter desimation and destruction they were still able to overcome the US/victors industrial might.
The Jobs Bank is the best way I have found to explain the excesses of the UAW and GM. Raspberry jelly donuts, warmed just how I like it, and some fresh Starbuck's French Roast coffee to go along with that.
They are going down, along with GM and Chrysler. A bailout only prolongs their misery they share with the U.S. They have bunkrupted GM. That fact is painfully obvious if one reads this column for months on end, like iluvmysephia1 does.
I see it plainly and clearly. It's over.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And it may be the Unions that destroy our automakers as well. You cannot have one without the other. No sales, no profit, no job, only jobs bank until the coffers run dry. Guess what the coffers are dry and GM has borrowed $66 billion to keep afloat. I say when they payoff their current debt we loan them some more...
a union job would drive up the average wage in any given area.
That may be as long as there is a company left in any given area. Ever hear the term boom town? Well just think of Detroit as a boom town. The boom is over and time to move on. That my friend is history. And it will be repeated over and over. The Big 3 went through similar trials in the late 1970s due to oil shortages. They did not learn a thing. Nor did the worker bees. They just follow the queen fat dumb and happy.
Much like that child who makes Nike shoes and cannot afford to buy a pair of them, we would be working for the needs of the elite class.
They get bought by the welfare people on the South Side of Chicago. I have not bought a pair of shoes made in China. I am hoping my stock of US made shoes and sandals will last the rest of my life. Some have holes in the soles. If you own a pair of shoes made in China you have no room to complain. Same goes for all those UAW workers that shop at WalMart.
Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. failed to mention that these big banks who swallowed the small banks would also be allowed to write of the little banks debt.
The financial world was fixated on Capitol Hill as Congress battled over the Bush administration's request for a $700 billion bailout of the banking industry. In the midst of this late-September drama, the Treasury Department issued a five-sentence notice that attracted almost no public attention.
But corporate tax lawyers quickly realized the enormous implications of the document: Administration officials had just given American banks a windfall of as much as $140 billion.
The sweeping change to two decades of tax policy escaped the notice of lawmakers for several days, as they remained consumed with the controversial bailout bill. When they found out, some legislators were furious. Some congressional staff members have privately concluded that the notice was illegal. But they have worried that saying so publicly could unravel several recent bank mergers made possible by the change and send the economy into an even deeper tailspin.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/09/AR2008110902155.- html
Sure, I can see it. I can also see that unions have morphed into businesses that provide services to customers in return for payments. Just as H&R Block claims that it can get me a larger refund if I pay it to prepare my tax returns, so unions claim that they can secure higher pay if workers pay them for representation.
That's why I'm not anti-union. I see unions as businesses - part of the service industry. There's nothing special about unions today - no reason to join hands & sing "Solidarity".
However, this was all about the Japanese auto maker giving their employees $10,000 in bonus and 0 for GM. As if the bonus is superior to GWI, from an employees point of view. We weren't discussing the pros or cons to the employer, but we all know they want to demonize all thats UAW here. Blinded by the fact that our whole economy is not going to be better if the UAW jobs go away and or the fact that we can't afford to do away with anything in our current situation.
Surely you can google the average union/non union wages? Funny you should mention tax refunds, USA Today sent the same tax papers to 10 different preparers, and they got 10 different returns...........Thats worth mentioning.
http://www.uaw.org/publications/jobs_pay/01/0901/jpe05.html
For eons, Japan had tariffs on food, to protect its agri industry. This was stealing from the consumer.
All industries should be considered. Few people even know that MAZAK has all but taken the machine tool industry over. Highly skilled workers lost jobs and these ain't your typical autoworkers either.