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Comments
I think I read that GM never recovered its market share after the last strike in 1998, but I don't remember the link now. Plus GM has been losing share since the late 70's anyway so I'm not sure how any market share loss was attributed to the strike.
I do hope they iron out a contract. A strike is not going to be beneficial to either side.
I say Sunday October 7th 2007 will see a deal..
A. Is the UAW so damn stupid that they can continue asking for the moon while their products do not sell???...
B. if these folks had the brains of the average dog,
C. WHY people started deserting them in droves for them newfangled Japanese cars...
D. they stuck their heads in the sand and just wished that they would go away...
E. If the union bosses had said at local meetings that they need to make a better product and maybe compete with a better product, we might be in a different world right now
I think I detect a slight disdain for the auto worker union in your comments.
Re E., I didn't see anything on my recent tour of a GM assembly plant where the workers could have changed what goes into the product. The items are shipped in and assembled same day. The engineering and design of said components are determined by the management of GM.
Re D., The management stuck their head in the sands and didn't reconfigure to produce a lighter, smaller, and agile small car in the 70s and early 80s to compete. They just gave away the market for the foreign cars to produce their econoboxes with minimum quality and matter; they wrongly thought that market would be minor to overall car demand.
Re C., The people wanted economical small cars for cheap commuting. The Japanese provided them. Detroit ignored the segment after a few feeble attempts.
Re B., Doesn't deserve response.
Re A., The UAW doesn't and didn't design the cars. They were the sweat workers on the assembly line asembling the components. The excesses and errors in their self-policing of poor workers in the 80s and 90s have now been purged. I saw only one category of worker showing poor attitude during my tour of a GM plant. If I can wiggle in the tour of a Camry/Avalon plant into my busy schedule, I suspect I'll see more and other types of poor attitudes.
What responsibility do you ascribe to the upper management of GM during those 80s and 90s when they chose the small product mix wrongly? They are highly paid as a group; they are paid much more than UAW workers were paid.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Education alone isn't the key to success. The world is filled with educated derelicts. My girlfriend's brother-in-law is just such a guy. He's brilliant, but has a personality that can best be described like chewing foil gum wrappers after coming from the dentist with fresh fillings. The guy is also totally lacking in common sense.
Heck, I admire those guys on "American Chopper" who can fabricate a motorcycle from tubing and sheet metal much more than some pretentious blowhard who can recite all of Shakespeare's sonnets. So, here's to you, UAW Workers! I really love the Cadillacs and Buicks you assembled for me!
That said, I think the marketplace values hustle over education. Working hard will get you further than a BA degree.
An example would be a guy I went to high school with. As soon as he got out he went to work as a roofer. Within four years he had his own company. The only reason he still has the company is that he has 8 skilled roofers who depend on him for their paycheck. He could sell the business and never work again but he won't sell to anyone who won't continue those 8 guys as a condition of the sale.
Back when the big 3 had little competition they could pass employment costs on to the customers. GM can't do that today. Very, very, few companies have that luxury.
Yes and no. The degree can help get you in the door. Hard work can take you up to the penthouse suite.
No doubt some are extremely successful w/o a college education. I have a large network of friends. No doubt the college educated ones are more successful overall. But, I have a childhood friend that ended up making the most of all of us didn't go to college. He became a millionaire before he was 30 by selling Kirby vacuums & moving up in Kirby's sales scheme. (no I'm not kidding)
Generally, the more formal education, the higher the lifetime income.
Generally, the more formal education, the higher the lifetime income.
Very true.
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Meanwhile, back at the contract talks... Oh, here you go - the UAW boss was a line worker who went back to school and got his accounting degree. So he's made good use (so far, lol) of his college efforts.
If it all falls apart and GM files banko and wipes out the union, I guess he'll have college mud on his face.
Remember back when Donald Trump was teetering on bankruptcy and had to go to his dad for a few hundred million? I asked my dad for that and he turned me down......
People do make fortunes from scratch but it sure doesn't hurt to have rich family members.
I'll take October 5 in the pool.
While management designs them, and the UAW does not, it is the line worker who leaves parts out of a given assembly...the line worker fails to install the window mechanism correctly...the line worker who just drops in a dashboard w/o lining it up in the proper indentations so it is 2 inches cockeyed...it is the line worker who drops empty beer cans into chassis channels before the body comes down to create a "never-will-find-the-cause" rattle (the worker looked at me and said "Let them try and fix THIS under warranty)...
Was he the majority???...probably not, but I wonder how many cars this one guy sabotaged in his career, and then you wonder how many of his "clones" are on the line doing something similar...
Yes, the union mentality is parallel to the same entitlement mentality of those on welfare...somebody owes it to them because they are the union...
If you notice the Big 3 market share, it is obvious that many folks have rebelled against that attitude, voted with their feet, and taken their money to foreign competitors...so, while we have not (yet) broken the union, what will be left of it will be so insignificant it will not matter...then life will return to some sense of sanity...
The UAW ship is sinking, but they are barely aware to see that they are fighting for the best orchestra seats...
Meanwhile, Honda, Toy, NIssan gobble up market share, and the lineworker cannot see that they simply do not exude the "perception (real or imagined) of quality" that foreign makes do...even if the Japanese do not exude that perception, the ordinary perception of the union is certainly NOT one of enduring quality and longevity...they brought it on themselves, and now they are finding it impossible to shake their well deserved image...
I'm not sure what attitude you mean. I think you are attributing something to something that doesn't exist. It helps if you quote from original when responding.
>Was he the majority???...probably not, but I wonder how many cars this one guy sabotaged in his career,
What guy?
>Meanwhile, Honda, Toy, NIssan gobble up market share, and the lineworker cannot see that they simply do not exude the "perception (real or imagined) of quality" that foreign makes do...even if the Japanese do not exude that perception,
Buyers don't see the persons who assembled the car, so they can't see the lineworker doesn't exude the perception (???)... I just sat in a Camry hybrid this morning and the hard plastics and the finish on them didn't justify the premium pricing and the obnoxious salesperson who wouldn't quit breathing over my shoulder. Does the salesperson see that he doesn't exude the perception of quality on the part of Toyo? :P
Back to the UAW and the strike, I give it some good friction before it's settled. The problem is people can hate a GM worker making as much or more than they have chosen to make, but the people don't car about the many higher ups with platinum parachutes and huge salaries actually making those decisions through the decades. If we want the workers to be third-world, we need the management folks to be third-world in pay and expectations.
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I haven't heard the one about the live turtle in the door for a long time now. :P
The urban myths do have long lives though.
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And exactly how do you know that these are "propagandistic publications," since you've obviously never read them yourself? Generally, it is best to read about the subject before commenting on it.
There is nothing condescending about pointing out the facts after doing some reading on the subject, and thereby suggesting that it might be helpful to read said books to have a more thorough understanding of the issue at hand.
fintail: Are you somehow trying to make a half-baked argument that social ills do not increase as income disparities increase?
Social ills began increasing during the 1960s, when income disparity was much less than in the 1990s, when those ills began decreasing.
That is not "half-baked," it is a fact, and one that directly contradicts your original assertion.
fintail: It's almost as if these people are being insulted personally. Don't kid yourself, you will never be even close to them.
I don't give two hoots about the super rich one way or the other. I just prefer that any discussion be centered on facts, instead of opinions or beliefs. One doesn't need to be close to the super rich or even the moderately rich to have an understanding of how people got their wealth (which is part of the public record, through tax filings, business incorporation records, public offerings of stock, etc.).
fintail: You would be well advised from demanding what anyone 'must' do...
One is also well advised not to indulge in stereotypes or dismiss books as "propaganda" without have read said books.
As for "hating" the union workers - outside this board (i.e, the real world), I have never heard anyone say that he or she avoids vehicles from the Big Three because of the UAW.
The reasons most commonly given are past experiences with subpar domestic products, or a preference for the styling, features and performance offered by the foreign offerings.
Healthcare fund tabled temporarily
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"There is nothing condescending about pointing out the facts"
Yes, condescending was your tone.
It is hilarious how some squawk and cry when anyone with wealth, no matter how it is attained, is criticized.
Generally, you've gotta have (at least a little) money to make money...
So have I, and they don't hold water.
fintail: Yes, condescending was your tone.
When you don't dismiss a reference book as "propaganda" (especially when you haven't read it), don't refer to facts as "half baked," and don't refer to someone offering facts to counter your assertions as "squawking and crying," you will have ground to comment on the tone of posts.
Check out Book Talk - What are you reading?.
We have a Conservative from GA, another from SW WA, several Liberals from the big cities, and the Socialist from the Peoples Republic of Puget Sound.
Did I leave anyone out?
Did you overlook my memo?
UAW, remember?
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-Rocky
So..., Rocky's date is September 22!
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Hope he's right even though it would mean I lose the pool.
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Apologies for the interruption. Back to the topic.
Idiot management, national ownership and greedy unions.
You still have manufacturing over there,its just foreign owned.
Was it some guy named Lucas?
Will find out one way or another I'm sure soon. Thanks for your support!!! Hope it is a honest and legit gig because I need something positive to happen for me in my career so I can move on with my life and maybe someday take my friendship with Beth to the next level or I could start dating other woman.
Beth sold 14 cars so far. 10 in 5 days. Monday is the final day so I'm hoping she gets another one becaus the next couple of months could be tough for GM sales consultants if GM goes BK.
-Rocky
Union sets strike deadline at GM
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
GM has the retiree pay as well as the retiree healthcare problem, both discussed in the article. However the current amount paid for the ever higher costs of health insurance shocks me. Toyota is paying 25%. I wonder how the coverage and copays and coinsuranc costs of the two plans compare. The devil's always in the details.
What was the date I picked in the pool? It's looking bleak that I'll be close.
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September 23, Rockylee
September 30, 6 pm (EDT?), steve
September 30, grbeck
October 5, fezo
October 7, gagrice
October 13, Imidazol97
If I missed anyone, please add to list.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
-Rocky