United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

1156157159161162406

Comments

  • wisemanwiseman Member Posts: 81
    Exactly! Gresham's Law in action.
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Do you deny that UAW have always been vehemently against "scabs"? Do you deny that "scabs" show up because the job pays more than their previous jobs? Use some logic please. "Scabs" are people too, and perfectly capable of analysing for their own benefit, just like UAW members can, and you and I can.

    Reminds me of illegal immigration de javu..........its not right, either side.

    "It Ain't Your Color, It's Your Scabbing": Literary Depictions of African American Strikebreakers.

    by Mark Noon

    I wonder why


    They are so shortsighted >As not to realize >That every time >They keep any worker, >man or woman, >White, yellow, or black, >OUT of a UNION, >They are forcing a worker >To be a SCAB, >To be used AGAINST THEM? >--from "The Negro Worker" > These lines of verse, published in The Messenger in July 1919, make a point about strikes that is frequently disregarded in the hundreds of pages of fiction by social realists who addressed the major labor struggles of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries: "[A]ny worker / man or woman, / White, yellow, or black" could be a strikebreaker. In the West, for example, railroad and mining company managers used workers from countries such as China, Italy, Greece, Japan, and Mexico to break strikes, fully aware that these immigrants would have no allegiance to the ethnic groups who had thrown down their tools in protest. Surprisingly, strikebreaking even crossed class lines as upper and middle class male college students also took on the role of strikebreaker to express their antagonism toward workers. (1) The variety of sources of strikebreakers is not fully reflected in the fictional response to the strike. In some of the most significant radical fiction of the early twentieth century, black workers--more than any other group--are curiously cast in the villainous role of "scab." In the span of a few decades, these literary depictions ranged from collective racist stereotypes to sympathetic psychological portraits of the pressures faced by the African American laborer. Ample evidence of friction between whites and blacks can be found in some of the U.S. labor movement's key strikes in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries. (2) The use of black troops offers the earliest examples. Black soldiers were used against striking miners in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, in 1892 and 1899, because African Americans "were believed much less likely than white troops to...

    http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/05/29/9271
  • wisemanwiseman Member Posts: 81
    "Reminds me of illegal immigration de javu..........its not right, either side."

    The concept of "illegal immigration" was a union political invention in the late 19th century . . . ironicly unionism itself came with European immigrants shortly before that. Before that, all immigrants were legal because there wasn't any law to make any distinction. Old World habits of using government powers of coercion to one's own advantage die hard. The result of course is worse standard of living and more political strife for all. Socialism often ends up being national socialism as the pie shrinks.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    The "illegal immigrants" run Circles around any UAW...and they APPRECIATE the work as well. ;)

    Kinda how this country started, no?

    Regards,
    OW
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    The concept of "illegal immigration" was a union political invention in the late 19th century

    http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/inventing-illegal-immigration/
  • wisemanwiseman Member Posts: 81
    "Kinda how this country started, no?"

    Exactly! It's amazing how far this country has gone down the wrong path of creating feudal privileges like they used to do in the Old World. Free exchange, live and let live are good; coercion is wasteful and bad for everyone.
  • jimbresjimbres Member Posts: 2,025
    Free exchange, live and let live are good; coercion is wasteful and bad for everyone.

    Bingo! You've nailed my political philosophy perfectly. This is exactly what I have in mind when I describe myself as a classical liberal.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    >The "illegal immigrants" run Circles around any UAW...and they APPRECIATE the work as well.

    If people from other countries are better workers, then this premise suggests sending all work of all types to workers in other countries...? Right?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    If people from other countries are better workers, then this premise suggests sending all work of all types to workers in other countries...? Right?

    That stands to reason and your stating the obvious. We have to go to the fact that the non touch labor is a no value added work concept. Just as the gentleman from the Heritage Foundation started stuttering when he was asked "what do you make"? A PHD made a fool on national television. Everyone is aware that these think tanks and foundations are funded by big business and have no peer review whatsoever, unlike major universities. The common man has learned to read and now he must get by the corporate owned media/public relations machine. Even the Japanese, who have brought this value added/touch labor to all of the business schools, use this as sound business practice. Why do we seek the Lean manufacturing and not the CEO compensation issue from the east? Why do these folks, that you hold to high esteem, employ their workers for life? What is the tradition of the 13 month of compensation? What exactly did these folks in these banks produce?
  • wisemanwiseman Member Posts: 81
    Same here, classical liberal . . . a concept many of my friends on the left and the right find hard to grasp. LOL
  • wisemanwiseman Member Posts: 81
    You may want to look up what's happening in Japan after two decades of stagnation. Labor inflexibility is not good. It's tough to be strung along for 20 years then get laid off when you are 60!

    "Touch labor"? What has Ron G. touched lately? Value is subjective. Different people have different values and priorities. In fact, that's the only way there can be peaceful cooperation between people. Otherwise, if we all have the exactly same preferences regarding everything, wouldn't we be fighting all the time against each other? Instead of complement each other in what we want and what we offer?

    That's why information managers and knowledge workers have value . . . often more value than a horse saddle maker after 1905, for example, but not necessarily more than a maker of collectible horse saddles nowdays. Talk about subjectivity! There is no other way you can reconcile the the two realities: (1) a pitiful experienced and proficient saddle maker going out business in 1915 vs. (2) a craft saddle maker taking his sweet time but making big bucks today! What should be the "fair wage" for a saddle maker anyway? if not through fluctuating market supply and demand.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    No, let 'em become the new Americans here.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I'll try again...let 'em become new Americans who take pride in their work and appreciate their job.

    Regards,
    OW
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Tough luck, UAW people. Everyone is getting cut. Get ready to take yours.

    Strapped U.S. companies, while continuing to slash their work forces, are deploying a once-rare tool to trim labor costs -- pay cuts.

    Latest Layoffs

    * AMD: 1,100 jobs, 9% of work force.
    * ConocoPhillips: 1,350 (4%).
    * Pfizer: 2,400 in sales (33% of group).
    * Hertz: 4,000 (13%).
    * WellPoint: 1,500 (3.6%).
    * Circuit City: 30,000 jobs in jeopardy


    Big Firms Deepen Job, Wage Cuts

    Regards,
    OW
  • dallasdude1dallasdude1 Member Posts: 1,151
    Yeah, were shedding jobs at the rate of a half of a million a month. How long will it take to shed all of the jobs? Nevermind, whats happening overseas.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    25 years give or take.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The sooner the domestics shed the UAW jobs the sooner they can get back to making cars at a profit. That along with ridding themselves of the legacy costs pushed onto them via strikes and goon tactics. Not to worry the out of work UAW people can go deal cards at the Tropicana. That is if the UAW has not driven the casinos into bankruptcy.
  • duke23duke23 Member Posts: 488
    rocky wrote in response to g's post :
    "Texas, also has the natural resources, climate for agriculture, to keep a low unemployment rate in these tough times. They also have a lot of government facilities....The reason why DOE, protects our nuclear weapon stockpile is to protect us from our military if a nut gets in their and was able to gain power and try to overthrow the government. Also I wouldn't want your average soldier near our nuclear weapons thus I like how it is done now with civillians as it limits the number of people that have access... "

    -Rocky

    rocky/g,
    Granted that 5.7% is below the national average but look for that to change soon. When oil goes to the $30's the tough get scared. Look for down sizing from integrated and all oil service related very soon. We may still beat the national average after having learned a lesson or two from the '80's but our numbers will be going up. rocky, agriculture really sucks, unless you have really cheap labor who aren't union. :D It's an ill wind that blows no good. Most glad you are re-employed, r. Keep up the hyperbole, God knows we need distraction.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I could buy a Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Lexus, etc. if I wanted but don't. I prefer Cadillac and Buick because I find them much more attractive and desirable. A lower cost or a better deal is secondary. Heck, I would pay a premium for both of them!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    It is solid as a tank and will easily go 300,000 miles.

    It's about as attractive as a tank too! See you in 300,000 miles!

    As far as I'm concerned, Buick is the ultimate value for the dollars spent!
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Henry Ford also had a buddy named Harry Bennett who was pretty much a gangster who kept the workforce under his thumb. Henry Ford also accepted a citation from Hitler and published an anti-Semitic newsletter. Some older Jewish people refuse to buy a Ford vehicle to this day for these reasons.

    The Ford Motor Company was in such disarray by 1943 that FDR discharged Henry Ford II, old Henry's grandson, to rescue the ailing company for fear of losing such a major defense contractor. It took Henry Ford's wife Clara's threat to sell her stock to get the old man to step aside and let his grandson run the family business.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Look for down sizing from integrated and all oil service related very soon

    I expected some cutbacks in Alaska when the oil prices fell. I remember BP and ARCO almost stopped in their tracks when oil prices tanked in the mid 1980s then again in the late 1990s. So far they have not slowed down production or exploration in Prudhoe area. In the mid 1980s almost all the Unions gave up wages in the oilfields when the price of oil dropped. A company can only pay what they can afford. Unless you are being subsidized as GM/C and the UAW is. That can only go on so long.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Buick is the ultimate value for the dollars spent!

    While I will agree that it is one of the better looking sedans on the road today. I think you will find it is not that high on the content Made in USA by UAW workers. It is not in the top 10 for US content. Two Toyotas and a Honda are in the top 10. So if you are concerned about helping your fellow citizens you might consider a Sequoia, Tundra or Sienna. All built in Indiana. I know my Sequoia was built by more skillful Indiana workers than my GMC PU truck. The Sequoia doors all shut very nicely without air gaps, unlike what the UAW workers left in my GMC PU truck.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Asking me to buy a Toyota is like my mother asking me to date her friend's fat ugly daughter because she "has a nice personality." Toyotas are just too bland or grotesque for me to consider. I wouldn't care if they were made by the UAW or not.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    On doors being shut without air gaps - do UAW workers at GM assembly plants have training, procedures that are deficient to say Toyota assemblers? Do Toyota engineers create better procedures, techniques for their assembly line workers than do GM engineers? Are procedures, techniques for both GM and Toyota similar, but the UAW workers fail to execute properly? If they fail to execute, is it lack of motivation, supervision, training, etc? Or, is it possible that the doors, hinges, car frames that are designed/toleranced by GM engineers inferior to Toyota engineering? Just curious.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,698
    >On doors being shut without air gaps

    We should blame the UAW workers:
    I think it was actually that GM designers and engineers and manufacturing engineers had the doors and seals perfectly setup for minimum clearance at first, but then along came the UAW assemblers who said it was too good and they were going to assemble the doors with larger gaps and with seals not fitting. So the assembly line people talked to the body manufacturing portion of the plant and had them adjust the gaps to be larger, twist the door shapes relative to the openings or vice-versa, and had them design the rubbers gasket material so that it wouldn't work in the new opening as well as it did before. :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    and had them design the rubbers gasket material so that it wouldn't work in the new opening as well as it did before

    That reminds me of something else. Every time I washed the truck I had to slide the rubber door gasket back in place. It was very loose. I thought about gluing it in place. Then I figured it would be a mess to replace it. I would have to say it was partially the design of that door system on the extended cab, and poor execution at the factory. It should not have left without fitting better. They only built 300 of the hybrid PUs. You would think they would have taken special care in assembly.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    That reminds me of something else. Every time I washed the truck I had to slide the rubber door gasket back in place. It was very loose.

    That must be a GM issue. My 2000 Suburban was the same way. When I was shopping to replace the Suburban last year, I test drove 3 used 08 Yukon XL's, two were Denali's and one a 3/4 ton SLT, all certified used. Two of the 3 had the rubber door gasket hanging out of the rear passenger doors. These vehicles had MSRPs well over $50k, and were high $30k range used, had less than 10k miles on them and already rubber door gaskets were falling out and they were already developing rattles through out the cabin. If I wanted a POS that's falling apart with rattles, I just would have kept my Suburban and saved myself $30-40k. That's how I ended up with an 07 Expedition. I really wanted a Denali, but after test driving several 07-08 Expeditions that were $10-15k cheaper used with 10-30k miles on them, they felt much tighter and put together better. So far I've been happy with my choice, the Expe feels like a vault in comparison. We'll see how it holds up. The Expe was built with UAW labor and I know the 3/4 ton Yukon I drove was made in Mexico, I didn't check on the Denali's.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    My 1998 Suburban 4X4 was much better made than the 2005 GMC PU. Then it was built by NON-UAW folks that appreciated a good job down in Mexico. The only thing that was better on the GMC is the 4 wheel disk brakes. The Suburban was not a performance rig in any way. Just good solid roomy driving comfort on long trips. I miss it. I would gladly take my 98 Suburban back. I could have the $41k in the bank that I spent on the Sequoia. Sometimes we make bad decisions.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Has anyone asked them to make wage concessions?

    Who? the UAW or the Senate?
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >This crap the UAW keeps touting that there is less than 10% labor in a car just does not add up.

    10% is what makes about a good profit margin in any product. If they cannot control cost, their car is going to cost more than they sell it for.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Even Bill Ford was smart enough to know that he was the wrong person to be CEO, so he hired Mulally.

    Bill Ford sure must have read the book by Marcus Buckingham, and made sure that Wagoner andhis jesters did not get a chance to read it :shades:

    link title

    image
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Absolutely, an injury to one is an injury/insult to all. My union brothers and sisters are family. There are so many union folks out there and you try to single out, the UAW, as the evil one's. We look at it as your going after all unions in the grand scheme of things to come.

    oooohhh.....

    Do I hear "Comrades" in this posting?
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >What it boils down to is that consumers want autos cheap and they don't really give a crap what the standard of living is for the people who make them.

    No. They don't want to buy cheapo autos so that they can provide a higher standard of living for those who make them.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >You say unions started for a good reason. What was that reason? Was it not that labor was unable to achieve acceptable living standards when it was every man for himself? Is that not true today? Looks to me like it is.

    It was me who said that "unions started for a good reason".

    >What was that reason?
    The reason was that the owners/mgt held all the cards as far as employment was concerned. The labor was not educated enough to understand how to survive on it's single self. That is not the case today. Most labor folks are smart enough, and thankfully educated enough to understand the good and the bad. Over and above, most management respects the labor contributions and willing to share the profits as and when they come. They are no longer captive employees, which was the case decades ago.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >Is that the school which allows freshmen to not count their grades into GPA? does MIT stand for Made In Taiwan? Does a GED from MIT count as more than a GED from another institution?

    ooohhhh....booooo.....

    Looks like the worst is coming out :sick:
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >So, if I do twice as much as my peer on the job, will management pay me twice as much? They are in fact only paying for one set of benefits and therefore much better off as they having to hire two employees to equal my production.

    Maybe. This can happen because you will be promoted to be his boss, and earn more in the process.
  • chikoochikoo Member Posts: 3,008
    >In the absence of UAW pay scale, you should talk to your management and demand higher pay, with a higher pay offer from a different employer in your pocket. I pay my productive workers much more than the less productive ones. That's the only way to keep them from jumping ship.

    I do that too.
    I have a salesgirl who was hired fresh. She is now earning more in two months than another girl who has been at the same job for over 6 months now. She was mad and started talking about seniority and all. Turns out her Dad is in the Auto sales business. Now I know why she thinks like that.Performance counts. Seniority does not. She got the message and is now working harder.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Seniority should have some privileges such as layoffs, vacations and shifts. I felt even all those years as a Union member that everyone making the same did drag the better producers down to the lowest common denominator. However our company RCA Global Communications wanted to have a Union. They felt it was easier than dealing with each individual. When you have 1500 people all claiming they are worth more than the other it gets a bit much for most lame brained managers to deal with. One size fits all, tell it to your Business Agent...
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    They fail to save for any reason. These folks will be in dire straits even if GM remains solvent. There are many folks who are employed and just don't think about the future. I, myself, can't see why they don't think as I do. We should acknowledge that good hard working people have no ability to manage money and are forced to seek protection under bankruptcy.

    Knowing this, do you still believe that they're worth saving? I agree that this isn't exclusive to UAW, but why on earth whould we acknowledge that "hard working people" can't manage their money? Correct me if I'm mistaken but you seem to imply that the hard workers can;t manage their money and we should simpathize?That makes no sense, they made the decisions and shot themselves in the foot. Then they reap the reasults, and now we have to save them?
    Come on.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    There are the possible dreams and there are impossible ones. American president coming from a non-white race was only a matter of time (unless you bank on the racists taking over the community all of a sudden). The American dream however, is impossible. Unless you're planning on trampling other nations to work for your dreams.
    I like being American, however I think the American dream is a total BS. You work more and gain more, there's no work less and gain more, not in this world at least.
  • Bob64014Bob64014 Member Posts: 1
    As a former UAW line worker, I need to comment on your assertion that the "air gaps" in your GMC were the result of what "UAW workers left in my GMC PU truck". Can I tell you a little story? I was part of the Statistical Process Control Team at the Lansing Car Assembly plant in the early 90s. I measured stuff like gaps and flushes on the outer panels. We couldn't get the doors and FESM (front-end sheet metal) to fit correctly during the pre-build stage. After having everything measured and remeasured, we ascertained that one of the quarter panels was 3 millimeters too long. We proved discrepancy to the engineers and management. We were told to do the best we could, because they're not going to retool that quarter panel. Ever notice that the left rear doors on those cars look like they're not closed all the way? So before blaming the UAW worker for all of your car's woes, please remember that there are some things that they have no control over.
    Next time I post, maybe I'll tell you about when I went into management. The losers that I tried to fire and the decent folks that DID care about their work.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Companies can get comparative data for various of their work positions and by state, region, etc. This data gets updated regularly. With the data, a company can construct their own wage scales and salary ranges by position. Main criteria for awarding salary level is performance with tenure/experience a lesser factor.
    Maybe those companies that don't want deal with this end up with a union and one size fits all.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    However, I've worked with many that through of their own are burden to society. The mentally challenged, I've seen in the Special Olympics, come to mind as wards of our society. Surely you have some compassion and some heart?

    Dallas, with all due respect please leave the physically and mentally challenged out of this. I'd never dish them as burdens to our society, they'd never asked for the state they're in anyway. However UAW isn't one of them are they? We're talking about capable adult people here, and all capables must earn their living.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Member Posts: 3,062
    Bob64014 comments on out of spec quarter panels and Management "telling" workers essentially to make do reminds me of quality managment guru, W. Edwards Demming. (Deming was/is highly respected by Japanese nation and peoples for help he gave them in improving their industries following WWII)

    Many years ago, when he was alive, he conducted various seminars on quality. In one type of 4-day seminar, he had students doing a mock work operation with some portion of defective parts (different colored marbles were used). The proportion of defective parts stayed constant day after day and the workers were never able to achieve the desired quality level, no matter what they did, because of ""things out of control of the workers" - defective parts, components provided by management.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    >Has anyone asked them to make wage concessions?

    Who? the UAW or the Senate?


    lol, I think we have a Quote of the Day winner. :)

    Welcome to the frey, Bob64014. It's great to have some more stories from "inside."

    In Jobs Bank news, Tokyo Jobs Bank: Japanese Government Helps to Pay Idled Workers. (Straightline)
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Again, why is it everytime a car is assembled poorly the blame goes to the design?

    It makes no sense when a car, say the Malibu I saw came out the Fairfax assembly line with misaligned trunk and then the next one was just fine. Were it a design fault every car of the same model should have the same problem.
    A great example was my Ford Escape. There was a half-inch gap between the dash and the bottom of the windshield. Was it a design problem? Then how come the dealer could fix it in minutes? How come when I got another Escape for a loaner such gap wasn't there (but the outside mirrors were rattling constantly)?
    Please explain.
  • m4d_cowm4d_cow Member Posts: 1,491
    Bill Ford sure must have read the book by Marcus Buckingham, and made sure that Wagoner andhis jesters did not get a chance to read it

    Wagoner won't read it, ever. Otherwise he'd recognize that he has no absolutely no capability and lost his confidence or worse, commit suicide. :P
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Bob64014: Next time I post, maybe I'll tell you about when I went into management. The losers that I tried to fire and the decent folks that DID care about their work.

    That would actually be interesting to read...an insider's perspective is certainly welcome.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,522
    Really, the first world should then be forced compete on the same playing field as hellholes like China and India, which seem to trade in socio-economic injustice. That's not progress, but it is what we are facing. Globalization is not progress.

    The American dream is impossible, the European dream is impossible - both being destroyed by domestic demographic issues and living wage jobs competing with third world sweatships, but the globalized serfdom dream managed by multinational corporations who exist to exploit cheap and irresponsible labor first and foremost - that's the new reality.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.