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Comments
How do you become born into the UAW, in the first place and what does that mean??? What kills me is your average Teamster, makes more than most UAW workers and also take note that not all UAW members are automobile workers that work for the D3 thus what you should of said was they weren't lucky enough to be born Teamsters!!!
-Rocky
Not at most places I've worked iluv!!!
Your Union just wants your loyalty and dues. If a Company decides they want to get rid of you or a segment of the Company with you in it they'll do just that. I know this is true having worked 20 years at a Union job for The Boeing Company. And it's not that they were trimming the waste-workers off. 19 of the 21 people in my Tech.Illustrator-Eng. group were let go within about a 6 month period between 2002 and 2003.
Well tell your buddy McCain, to quit trying to send work that should of went to Boeing, overseas because it was "cheaper" :mad:
Do a good job and treat customers you provide services for and you can still get a good paycheck in America. Unions are not necessary. With a Union your voice is not heard, instead you do as everyone else mandates collectively.
I never said unions are neccessary in all occupations iluv, but huge corporations where you are just a badge # and a breathing body well they are important.
Scary way to do business. Look where it got the UAW's, rockford. A hard and nasty ride down the toilet. Almost, anyway. And rock, that is not my wish. I would prefer Ford, Chrysler and GM to remain in automotive manufacturing. Doing what they've done for a century. The 1960's remain my favorite decade in automotive manufacturing. My first car, a '65 Ford Mustang, remains my Detroit favorite. But my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS has proven to be right alongside my old Mustang as a car that I love and respect. Those two rigs just get my motor running the mostest.
The Big 3 are done unless we make major changes on domestic policy.
The worldwide marketplace has crushed that dream and idea, that one of continued mastery of the marketplace that Detroit enjoyed for so long. You can't just place the blame on Clinton and his NAFTA. The Union has not been able to save the dream, in fact, in GM, Ford and Chrysler's case they have helped hamstring them.
I never said the UAW, was perfect and like any large group they will make mistakes. NAFTA, had a large impact on the UAW because it allowed jobs to go south and bring in those parts and fully assembled cars duty free. Rove International, a former employer of my mother and step-dad annouced today they are closing the doors after nearly 100 years in buisness and moving the business to a rough area of Mexico.
Now, if your Company is not making a profit, you're in trouble. If the hospital I work at started paying out more than they take in, I could be let go. Your idea of putting an eastern Indian in my job is a nice try but it's not happening. If we start going in to the red several of us will be toast.
I have no doubt their are plenty of highly qualified Eastern Indians, that will do your job cheaper and it could be replaced if somebody like Gates, gets his way with giving H1 Visa's away like trick or treat candy!!!
I could take some of my skills and open up my own mobile medical clinic, too, like sleep studies. I am just learning this skill, so, if I get a pink slip in the next two years I won't really feel comfortable working independently. Need more experience. But believe me I have thought of this. Probably too much expense to do regular Respiratory Therapies in my own place, but doing sleep studies is extremely lucrative. If I am my own boss there will be no eastern Indian or Filipino working my job and providing my service. I will run my own show, or, my Boss and I could open our own clinic up together.
You would compete but plan on selling the Lancer, and getting a beater along with the house and all your autographed Supersonic stuff!!! :P
As we both learn sleep medicine this is a possibility, though, working for hospitals is probably what will still be our norm until retirement. rock, I know that the trend is to outsource, but I don't see it happening in healthcare now. I believe there are ways to make ourselves valuable even with that threat looming.
I think that day is already coming as you see people going south of the border or to India for healthcare issues.
It's in what you have to offer to the patient and consumer, it has to make financial sense to them and be convenient for them. And you have to technically do the tests accurately, keep in communication with the doctors in your community, and treat patients with dignity and respect.
That doesn't mean anything to the pseudo-globalist.It's all about the buck and whatever is the cheapest. It might of meant something to a UAW worker since they have souls!!!
Sorry, rockford, I just don't feel that "shaking in me boots" feel that the aerospace industry ails upon a person.
Well I hope you are right but the serfs like former UAW, workers won't be able to afford your services iluv, thus they will look for alternative means to get your done cheaper. Maybe they will contract it out to an Eastern Indian, who will do your job while also punching in the numbers on the cash register of the price of booze at the Stop n' Go that they all own around the country. Unless your a minority they are going to get tax breaks that won't allow you to compete!!! You might not be shaking in your boots now but your knee's might be wobbling in 5 years.
-Rocky
You'll have to beat Kerbeck's best price, though..
Regards,
OW
They may get redemption. Or do you/society wish to be their prey for an entire lifetime? Besides, we have long since forgive the Watergate felons and they have meaningful employment. Granted they aren't UAW material.
Retail sales must be WAY DOWN. I work a part-time job doing retail inventory. The local mall was so deserted last night, I might as well have been Will Smith in "I Am Legend."
That's not what I remember and I'm probably 8 - 10 years older than you. My grandpa was a 40 year union employee of the steel mills in Gary, In. He never had more than one car and always kept them 5+ years. My FIL, also a 30 year employee of the steel mills has only bought two new cars ever. He's still driving a '95 Tahoe.
Then again, I didn't grow up around the "rich" UAW workers. As for cars being better back in the "day". That is complete B.S. There is a reason why the "shade tree" mechanic was coined. Those cars needed extensive maintenance every year in terms of tune ups etc. Rarely did you see a car go 150k miles plus, heck most didn't make it to 100k w/o rusting out or needing a new engine.
I had a '71 Mustang convertible in high school. I was lucky to keep it running for 3 mos. at a time. Points, condensers, flaky carburetors, not to mention poor handling, poor brakes, and most of those cars were slow unless they had a big block or a highly tuned small block that hardly ever stayed running right. The only thing those old cars had was distinctive styling and nostalgia.
IMO there are only a few bright spots in the 70's and most of those are probably big GM cars. I remember my dad's '73 Torino. At 3 years old and 25k miles, the vinyl roof was peeling, the doors were rusting, and its 302 v8 needed a valve job by 30k miles.
I also had a 75 Buick Regal coupe with a 350. I remember when my Grandpa gave it to me in '87. He was so proud he had gotten 120k miles out of it. Boy was that a beaut. 150 or so HP and 4000lbs, 15mpg at best, maybe 11 second 0-60. Yep, those were the days. Well it pretty much kept me out of trouble. It was slow and I couldn't afford to drive it much. The only bonus, I was able to put lots of girls in it on Friday nights:)
Sales are down big time except for consumer staples where those types of stores are running flat, i.e. Walmart, grocery stores, and drug stores.
That is true. They were not happy destroying the Domestic auto industry, now the are ruining casinos in Las Vegas. One time being a dealer in Vegas was a great income. That is until collective bargaining leveled the playing field. Now all the dealers are drones not just the ones with no personality. My sis is not thrilled with the way they do business in Las Vegas Casinos. The UAW mentality for dealers now is to share all the tips equally. So a deadpan dealer and you know who they are, will not generate any tips. Yet at the end of their shift they get the same as the dealer that puts on a great show for the players.
Why do you always play up what is wrong with the country and never focus on what is wrong with the UAW. Maybe you can ask your dad why they slow the machines at Delphi to accommodate the slowest workers? All people are not created equal. The UAW would like to make all workers equal to the worst of the bunch. That is what I dislike about your beloved UAW. No incentive in that environment to excel.
My grandparents on my Dad's side usually bought a brand-new car every 3-4 years, but it was never anything all that extravagant. Their first car was actually a used 1949 Ford, but then they bought a very well-equipped '57 Ford Fairlane 500 4-door hardtop. It was around $3500, and adjusted for inflation, probably the most expensive car they ever owned. It was followed by a '61 Galaxie and a '63 Mercury Monterrey, and each of them was around $3500, as well.
After that, they went to smaller cars. First a '66-67 Tempest hardtop coupe, then a '71. Then a '75 Dart Swinger, followed by a '77 Granada, '81 Granada, 85 LTD, 89 Taurus LX, and finally a '94 Taurus GL.
Both Grandmom and Granddad worked, so none of this Leave-it-to-Beaver stay-at-home-Mom mythology for our family! When Granddad retired in 1974, he was making $6.00 per hour. I dunno what Grandmom made when she finally retired.
On my Mom's side of the family, they always had two or more vehicles...a car for Grandmom, a truck for Granddad, and usually some spare beater that Granddad picked up for little or nothing. Again though, it was never anything extravagant. The most expensive vehicle they ever had, when you account for inflation, was probably a '76 GMC 3/4 ton crew cab pickup. It was around $8,000 new. The last car they bought was also the most luxurious...a 1985 LeSabre Limited, almost fully loaded, for around $16,200. First car they ever had with power windows, seat, locks, etc. The last truck they bought was a 1985 Silverado, for around $13,500.
For the most part, they just had mainstream, run-of-the-mill cars. It's not like they were farmers, hospital workers, and railroad workers driving around in a brand-new Cadillac every two years.
I also had a 75 Buick Regal coupe with a 350. I remember when my Grandpa gave it to me in '87. He was so proud he had gotten 120k miles out of it. Boy was that a beaut. 150 or so HP and 4000lbs, 15mpg at best, maybe 11 second 0-60.
My Mom bought a 1975 Pontiac LeMans coupe, brand-new, for around $5,000. I remember the car was pretty tired by 1980, when she traded it on a new Malibu coupe. It wasn't rusting yet, and thankfully didn't have a vinyl top to peel, but I just remember it getting hard to start, not driving very well, and Mom was complaining about its fuel economy. In the car's defense though, Dad wrecked it in 1977, and even though it got fixed, it just never ran right.
Interestingly, the '76 Grand LeMans I have now is probably in better shape at 33 years old, than Mom's '75 was at 5! I remember last year, my Mom saw my '76 LeMans, took a good look at it, and with a confused look on her face asked, "was my '75 really that big?! I can't believe I used to drive a car that big!" Which I don't fully comprehend, because she and my stepdad have a 2002 F-150 and a 1998 Expedition! They also have two Altimas, a '99 and an '08 though, and that's what they mainly drive. I guess those old cars can seem kind of intimidating though, with the long hood. With a pickup truck, you sit up towards the front of the vehicle, so it doesn't necessarily feel so big, as long as you forget about all that mass behind you!
I'd be curious to look at the dimensions of the '75 Regal/Lemans. I wouldn't be surprised if they were wider than a current SUV.
My '76 LeMans coupe is 208" long on a 112" wheelbase. I think it's about 53" tall, and around 77-78" wide. I think the base weight was around 3850 lb, but once you throw on a/c, power windows, and a few other odds and ends, I'm sure it's around 4,000 lb.
Most criminals engage in illegal activities because of attitudes about work and wealth, not because they were denied a student loan. Criminals don't have the discipline to pursue higher education, even if they were given the money.
Virtually all criminals prey on people in their own neighborhoods...those crimes just don't make the six-o'clock news, or the front page of the local paper. Criminals from Philadelphia aren't invading the Main Line.
If things were so great during the 1960s for the UAW workers and the auto Industry, why the 1967 Detroit riot. One of the worst in US history. 2000 buildings burnt. Sounds like the 1960s were utopia for the UAW and Detroit, NOT. I think rocky's family are looking at the past through rose colored glasses. The 1960s under socialist LBJ were horrible. I guess every generation has to go through times like that.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rioting/protesting/dropping acid were just part of life in the late 1960s. The cars were hot then, though. Can anyone say 426 HEMI, GTO?
I never said that factory workers are undeserving of a livable wage...what I have repeatedly stated (anything I write after 11 pm I am not responsble for, since I am half asleep...:):):)...) is that floor sweeping and tightening lug nuts simply is not worth $35/hour, even if the President were to do it...my argument is simply that the UAW was able to get unskilled labor paid far in excess of what anyone else in the entire universe would pay for the same job...they lived in fantasyland, and made junk for years, because we had nothing better to compare it to...
Then, we started getting products from Honda and Toyota that are manufactured with far fewer workers (simply more efficient than the union featherbedding) and, accoding to many Americans and reflected in their market share, far superior in quality...rock, you NEVER answer the efficiency and quality factors that have been destroyed by the UAW, all you yap about is why can't a worker with a 3rd grade education get $65K a year for sweeping floors...the inherent worth of the labor simply is NOT there...it is up to the individual to better themselves, and the UAW always seems to reach out for the lowest common denominator...
Numerous posters here have adequately described how they joined a union workforce and were gently "told" to slow production so that they don't make the others look bad...again, the lowest common denominator from the union...
So, I am not against anyone making a living wage, but they must perform work that earns that wage...why can you not see that???
If YOU had to hire someone to sweep the floors in your house, would YOU pay them $35/hour plus benefits for 8 hours daily, 5 days a week, plus overtime ($54/hour) on weekends???...if you were Warren Buffet you wouldn't pay that because you know that the work is not inherently worth it...why should a Ford floor sweeper be any different???
The competition from superior manufacturers like Honda and Toyota has removed the curtain from the UAW Wizard, and we can all see the emperor has no clothes...just face it, rocky...the UAW deceived us long enough, it was nice while it lasted, but the truth is now known and it ain't pretty...the UAW simply is NOT worth what they are paid, and every taxpayer in the US now knows it...
Yogi Berra said It ain't over til it's over...Guess what???...It's over...
Hell, that UAW floor sweeper/janitor is making more than Buffet's secretary who is the gatekeeper for an organization that is worth more than the D3 combined! I should say used to get paid more, as from what I understand, those unskilled positions are getting a pay cut to the $14/hr range, once the UAW concessions take effect.
I'm with ya. The first car I remember was my dad's '52 Plymouth. I can still remember him and the mechanic down the street doing a "ring job" on it on a lot at the end of the back alley. This was at 50,000 or so miles. The old brake shoes were always needing replacing, and your point about points (sorry for the pun), carburetors, etc is right in line with my recollection.
When I started driving it was on the '52 Plymouth, then graduated to a '62 Rambler. I replaced the rings on it too, but this time had a garage to use.
You never hear about cars needing rings jobs today. Most new vehicles will go 100,000 miles with not much more than fluid changes and consumables (wiper blades, tires, brake pads) replaced.
LOL, just remember to turn the ignition off before using the feeler gauge to check the point gap!! I've done that ONLY once!! Quite a shocking experience;)
My best friend that I worked with for 37 years came to Alaska as an IBEW telephone equipment installer. Much of the job in 1970 was wire wrapping connections. The better installers which Bob was one of the best would take pride in how many pairs they wrapped in a day. He jumped in our new equipment with a vengeance. The second day the IBEW shop steward/foreman called him aside and told him to cut it in half. He was working too hard. A month later our boss hired him and he became a Teamster. Being senior technicians we were not subject to that kind of stupidity. And our bosses were grateful for our efforts to convert the state of Alaska from all manual calling to direct distance dialing. In fact we would only see the boss about once a week. He would come down to see how it was going. Self starters do not need a lot of supervision. And I liked it that way.
PS
I know some here like to ignore that big negative hanging over the UAW. They will blame it on Global Warming or currency manipulation. When it is in FACT just lousy employees.
Incorrect!!! In my world we would have competition from inside our borders.
Hey Rocky, we love ya, but there's a problem with your scenario. You want it "like the 60's", where we have little foreign trade and are pretty-much self-sufficient internally. You see that this will preserve our standard of living.
The problem is that today's cars use many foreign components. Where will you get the control computers that run today's engines? Are we going back to carburetors? How about the CD or MP3 player? The GPS system? Antilock brake controls? And even more importantly, where is the gasoline coming from? You seem to want it all internal except for what we NEED from outside. And that's not going to work. Just on gasoline alone, if we started producing 60's-era cars again and did no foreign trade, only half of us would be able to drive since we would have so little fuel!
So pick your choice - half the driving with 60's era cars, or today's technology with globalization. Hint: you can't go backwards.
Too many Leave it Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet re-runs on TV. That may have been the way it was for a UAW family. The rest of US it was more like the Munsters or Addams Family. Barely enough food and buying 10 year old cars that were worn out when we bought them. Rocky would like me to work in an auto factory. I would like him to climb a 200 foot tower and swing a microwave dish at 35 below zero when he is 60 years old. Both good paying jobs. Which is toughest?
It is wayyy down. In most cases as much as 30% for retailers like Chico's or GAP, etc...
http://www.gapinc.com/public/Media/Press_Releases/med_pr_Januarysales020509.shtm- l
COMPARABLE STORE SALES DOWN 23 PERCENT
Did you have a low paid worker who went up and cleaned the snow off the steps and the work area for you? :P
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It is just that some of us have yet to see reality after all the justified beating the UAW gets...justified simply because they demand royal treatment for lug nuts and floor sweeping, they think no one else can do it when they do it poorly; their products took a 30 year dive in quality, just now waking up to the fact that other products are better, and have been since the 80s...
They further believe that they get to live in an Ozzie and Harriet bubble, insulated from the real world...yet their yearly sales have dropped by millions of vehicles over the last 20 years, and they have no idea why...
They scream for protectionism because their products are inferior and their workers are worse than inferior...they have no idea that the reason they can't compete is that their product quality comes up short, and they want the law to stop people from buying Honda or Toyota...not ONE of them has ever stood up and said they would try and make a car better than Honda, they just want to stop people from buying a Honda and showing them up for their poor quality...
Almost like McDonalds outlawing filet mignon so that the world won't know there is something better than a hamburger...
The first major quality improvement will be the destruction of the UAW, so that normal workers might put some quality into the cars...
UAW Mission Statement: to attract the lowest quality workers to turn out the lowest quality workmanship in the highest possible quantity, thereby permanently contaminating the American supply of goods and services...that may not be their actual mission, but considering how the quality of Big 3 cars have been over the last 30 years, it does make you wonder...
And yes, the last 30 years IS relevant because they are just waking up now, which is why this whole argument is mind-numbing...if it was just the worthless junk of the 70s, and they made radical quality improvements in the 80s and beyond, I could see the past as irrelevant, but they made junk for so long it must be in the UAW DNA to make an inferior product...I would bet half the UAW has never seen a Honda and has no idea why people might buy them...talk about ignorant brainwashing from UAW stewards...it is a wonder they let UAW members have their own checking accounts, since their thought processes are so infantile...and on top of that, they let UAW members reproduce, which means there are more that have that silly entitlement mentality...
That cycle will be broken in the next few years, and the USA will be better for it...
Maybe you should tone it down a bit. Just get back from happy hour?
Thats plain silly since most if not all innovation comes from America. I would tend to agree with Rocky. Yeah the cost would be more, but where does this wholesale of exporting jobs end? Sooner or later we have no one making enough in wages to afford anything import or export. Perhaps much like today. I can ust hear the yelping when other industries are exported as that of the auto/UAW. Lets face it, we just can't be money managers for the world, given the state of affairs in Wall Street.
Even the great conservative economics Nobel prize winner Krugman has come down as a buy American, given the current conditions.
The Big 3 are not suffering as a result of the decisions jointly made between any or all of them and the UAW today. They are suffering as a result of decisions made by those entities in the 1950s and 1960s, when the Big 3 could be fairly said to have oligopoly power and could easily pass on these costs to consumers. Once that power was lost, these legacy costs were left over and the Big 3 could never quite figure out a way (until recently) to get out from under them.
Assuming we're talking about more competitive industries than 1950-60 Detroit, no new union today would be able to organize, say, Walmart and obtain a defined benefit pension plan or retiree health care benefits.
The converse of this rhetorical question would be whether Americans (Democrats or Republicans if there are any left) trust the management teams of the likes of ENRON, Citicorp, AIG, Washington Mutual, et. al. to raise the living standards of the typical American worker without giving that worker some increased bargaining power.
One suspects the answer lies somewhere in the middle but the idea that unions are antithetical to economic prosperity is one which would have been controversial prior to around 1980 in the United States.
I not sure where this sense of entltlement comes from. In the US we have the right to life,Liberty and the pursuit of happiness; not actual happiness, not economic security, etc. I do agree with many others' comments here, that all that said, the government does not do a great job with leveling the playing field with other foreign sellers. Economic times are tough but we all have the same choices with our jobs: if we don't like it, we look elsewhere. The writing has been on the wall with the big 3 for 20 years: Declining market share and quarterly billion dollar losses. Only the Federal government with a printing press can endure such circumstances.
Those were truly days of glory for the big three.
The D3 cars were, for the most part, superior to anything coming out of Europe. Many of the European models came with small tool kits to keep them running. "Detroit Iron" was king. I can remember going to Ford in Hapeville Georgia and Chevy at Lakewood,(every September) to check out the new models. Looking through the Chain link fence. Checking out the new body styles. That actually started in late 1954 when we got wind of a totally new 55 Chevy with a V8. WOW. Never owned one of them but my 52 Chevy 4 door sedan got one of those fabulous ( 265 cu in) engines stuffed under the hood in '59..
But then the 60s hit and Detroit got interesting with the HP races. All three made big powerful motors. Way to much engine for the brakes and chassis. But we didn't care. '60 Impala with 4speed and 348 cu in, 62 Catalina with 389 cu in, 63 Impala 4 speed 327, 64 GTO- 4 speed-tri power-389 (favorite), 66 Fairlane 390 GTA, and 67 GTO automatic 400 cu in all graced my drive way, all bought new, with several 4 and 6 cylinder things mixed in for commuting. 49 VW beetle, 61 Corvair, 63 Falcon, 65 Mustang, etc.
Then the EPA started working it's magic in the 70s and got serious in the 80s and the D3 began to fall behind in innovations. Especially in the drive train department.
If we wanted a car that ran good, we kept what we had. We kept the IRON from the middle 50' through the late 60's and a few mid 70 models. D3 engineers and BEAN COUNTERS, continued to cut corners, UAW continued to demand more, and the Japanese continued to make their products run better and last longer.
Yeah, I remember disparaging the "[non-permissible content removed] Junk" that were made from left over WW2
GI beer cans, we said. But they kept importing the little pieces of crap and good Americans were actually buying them. Yep, I had a "BUY AMERICAN" bumper sticker on both our 73 Catalina and 73 Chevy Cheyenne Pickup bumpers. Things got tight for us and I had to sell both vehicles. Got a 66 (289 cu in) Cougar for the wife and a new 74 Toyota PU for me. Then I began to understand why the "[non-permissible content removed]" cars were so popular. The Toyota never broke. Never had to take it to a dealer for any type of warranty or other work. The 73 Chevy truck had been to the dealer, many times. I didn't "know" the service writers at the Toyota dealership like I did at the Chevy and Pontiac dealerships.
Last try at an American "car" was the 87 Olds. Driver seat sagged, Paint peeled, and THE ENGINE AND TRANNY WERE PRETTY MUCH SHOT AT 75K .
Last try at an American truck was the 98 Ram. Too many problems!
So what happened to DETROIT IRON ? The word GREED comes to mind.
Kip
That's ironic!
Regards,
OW
After a '79 Sunbird and a '91 Continental I gave up!
I gots a
'91 Accord, a '99 Odyssey, an '05 CR-V and an '07 Element.
Fluid and filter changes!!!
........AND they have more US content than did the '91 Continental!!!! (...made in Mexico!)
I bought an 83 Dodge Charger that was good until about 70K miles. I would lose almost all of the power steering fluid on a sharp right turn and remember taking right turns very gently, then pulling over to fill the power steering fluid. I would keep a case of it in the car.
Regards,
OW
What is this Union crap? The highest Union percentage of labor in the USA was about 30% in the mid 1950's. This was when the rest of the world was crawling out of a bomb crater. Unless with the big milk cow companies and industries they were useless, getting labor marginal wage increases in the small shops and taking half that for the Union and the Democrats.
I believe the percentage is about 7% now in the private sector jobs, most of that heavily dependent on gov't contracts mandating union wages. I believe about 30% of the govt jobs are unionized.
Of course the tab for this is picked up by 85% of the non union workforce.
Even if they did get sizeable wage increases, their membership would drop off due to lower sales. (one can sell a lot more of the product at $500 than $1400) The 84% of non-unionized workers would pay the tab.
The union's biggest enemy in the world has always been:
1) Math (the enemy of all socialists/etc...)
2) Computers and automation
3) Corruption (there are a lot of holes in the desert... exactly where is hoffa?)
4) 5-6 billion (85%) of the worlds population who would give their left nut for $3000/yr.
5) The massive growth of the market outside of the G7 countries. Any "fortress America" "buy American" etc tradewar would be cutting our own export throats.
Just read my previous post. Even under recent circumstances many of you idiots could have had it all.
----------------------------------------
The UAW guys could have had it all, at least fr a lot longer. Many saw the problems, the golf cart stewards in their blue shirts shutting down the production line in pissing contests with management. ("safety" issues) Stewards "cutting out" with their buds to go bowling down the street.
Ridiculously low quotas for some work stations a determined worker could complete in 2 hrs and read the paper the rest of the day. (and thumb his nose at management when he did it)
UAW membership dropping 70%? in 20 years. Despite a large increase in the U.S. sales.(It didn't occur to them it wasn't working?)
The only thing keeping the Domestics afloat was the "outsourcing" of parts to small mechanized machine shops around the country.
15 years ago "outsourcing" was considered to be the traitorous shifting of labor from ridiculously expensive American union shops to far less expensive American non-union shops. The concept of overseas wasn't mentioned much.
I have a customer who makes $12/hr operating a cnc machine producing parts for the local Ford plant. When not doing that he resets for parts from 4 other companies in 2 separate industries. A UAW high school dropout would be paid 4x as much to do 1/5 the work. (and believing he's getting "shafted"). Other UAW workers who knew how lucky they were were powerless. Exceeding quota would make other workers "look bad", and reveal the need for less workers. Work ethic could be highly discouraged. One lady got really reamed by the stewards for consistently producing too much product. "I just get so bored doing nothing" she explained to me. She eventually got to enjoy solitare.
Of course absenteeinsm and alcoholism, $30/hr janitors... we won't go there.
The Democratic party's unholy alliance with the deal. (mostly northern "Blue States" aka "rust belt". $70/hr pay packages meant hefty union dues with the Democrats hand in the payroll through union contributions (98% to Democrats)
The infamous "jobs bank". Hmmmm hardly no other plants lay workers off at full pay to go play pool, at $29/hr much less $50+. Great deal if all the workers could share in this. Unfortunately, only 1-2% of (politically connected) workers can get it and the rest pay up for the products.
There's no way a bunch of high school dropouts/GED folks, with an extra layer of management (union/stewards) ,pay packages 40%? higher than competitors and with rigid work rules (how many UAW guys does it take to change a light bulb..) are going to compete with college educated employees unhindered by such in other plants in automobile manufacturing. The dog won't hunt with $3.00 gas.
Save the flag waving/pearl harbor/working class hero crap for those who don't know any better. Mostly driven "domestic" nameplates all my life, but what they say about watching "sausage being made" surely applied here.
Put a fork in the UAW/domestics for consumer autos. They're done. The Democrats will throw them 30-40 billion (of your tax money making much less/hr. ) to have them float another year.
Some of the "skilled" trades were pulling down $170+k/yr (actual salary sans benefits) with overtime.
The dolts should leave the stewards/golf carts/UAW leadership in a ditch.
Good luck folks
--jjf
Cars are now a commodity...any country can make 'em better and cheaper than Detroit UAW.
Here's to the new owners in a non-union environment!
Regards,
OW
Betrayal would be if they gave back something the rank and file still wanted.
Regards,
OW
Again we act as if the UAW and unions are the only special interest in this great American society. The medical field has done more to distort the market and thereby adding cost to every company. This is the single most advantage of moving/relocating overseas. They are all lined up in Washington and grease the wheel. Seeking to lobby our elected representatives. Do they add any value to any product? This is the very concept of touch labor/value added the Japanese hold in high esteem. We seem to like this concept and ignore others. Their compensation of executives and share the employee for life mantra seem to be missing from our corporate community.
Then we are now in this " I'm bored generation". This is a whole new breed of wildcat. With technology they will free up mankind from the toil of the 40 work week. They will assure that everyone has the basic needs taken car of. We will be in short supply of folks to do what many here consider worthless jobs. Govt will have to require the average citizen to sweep floors or such tasks one day a week. Such will be the human condition. Many here want the next generation to endure the same or worse, I've got news for you. They have hundreds of channels on the television, the internet, video games, movies on demand, cell phones, IPODs, and an entire host of things to amuse themselves with. Then they still manage to get bored. The last 7 years of auto engineering technology is equal to the prior 70 years in terms of technology. I would be hard pressed to find regression in mankind. Its retarded to think we cannot innovate our way into a better human condition. Imagine that 95% of the population was needed to grow the nations food supply and today its less than 5%. Then ponder the thought of the out house and indoor plumbing. One cannot expect to return back to the horse and buggy days of ole, just by looking at history. Then at this time we will see what "pursuit of happiness" is.
Kipk: Good run down on the rise and demise of Detroit iron. I lost interest in the early 1960s. Bought a POC Toyota Land Cruiser in 1964. They tried to copy the Chevy inline 6 cylinder using old beer cans and it was totally inferior to the GM original. Wish I still had it with a modern drive train.
jfritsch: UAW membership dropping 70%? in 20 years. Despite a large increase in the U.S. sales.(It didn't occur to them it wasn't working?)
Thank you for an insider's view of the UAW shops.
That kind of says it in a nutshell. The UAW has just gone along fat, dumb and Happy while their ranks have been diminishing at an alarming rate. The retirees took their early pensions without a thought for the future. Anyone with half a brain could see that a big loss of UAW members would diminish the automakers contribution to the retirees. Now when faced with reality, they want the rest of the USA to pay for their continuing high lifestyle. The key being the average tax payer living in an average home. It is not so hard to feel compassion for the person living in the ghetto needing food stamps. It is a push for a tax payer living in a modest home to be forced to subsidize a UAW worker or retiree that has a McMansion in the burbs with a Caddy and Denali sitting in the driveway. A $300,000 RV and boat along side the house with a cabin on Black Lake where they spend months in the summer playing golf subsidized by the UAW at their fancy resort.
So what is the UAW retiree and 5+ year employee giving up NOW to save the Domestic automakers? All I see is talk for the future aside from the jobs bank.
You are in for the great awakening as there are folks in Mexico willing to do it for $1.20 an hour and $.12 in China. Mazak is the largest machine tool builder in the world and China is its biggest customer. They have broke ground and are building CNC machines in China. It just a matter of time before your bloated costs are no longer tolerated.
I think you have to include the attorneys & Insurance in the high cost of health care. That along with the very expensive treatments offered. We have friends that are in their 70s. She has Parkinson's the drugs cost them $1000 per month out of pocket. He is still working full time as a plumber to make ends meet. If as you say the AMA restricts new doctors why the steady stream of foreign doctors going into practice. Are you saying they prefer Indian and Pakistani doctors to US citizen doctors?
I hear rumblings from the new administration of making college free to all. How many UAW workers would go and become doctors, lawyers and college professors. And who is going to pay for this extravagance?
We don't have to worry about that until we get 100% of our H.S. students to earn a diploma, unfortunately we're a long way from making that happen.
I would say that the oil embargo caused this whole situation. They tried to make cars lighter and more fuel efficient. Plastic parts, aluminum engines, a technology which was yet developed made America suffer the break-in and familiarization period. Look at all of the good that came from it however, fuel injection and the lot. Its going to be a while, but were on the road to newer technologies, which will make the internal combustion engine obsolete. Unfortunately, America is still the greatest buyer of cars on the planet and will be the proving ground again.