Bottom Line: One reason we might have a "health care crisis" and rising medical costs is that we turn away 58% of the applicants to medical schools. What we have is a medical cartel, which significantly restricts the supply of physicians, and thereby gives its members monopoly power to charge above-market prices for their services.
If we had 129 law schools (instead of 200) and 200 medical schools in the U.S. (instead of 129), it would probably go a long way to solving our "health care crisis." More MDs at much lower salaries along with fewer lawyers and lawsuits would be a good thing, no? Can't breaking up the medical cartel be part of the discussion for health care reform?
There is considerable evidence that for much of this century organized medicine has successfully restricted entry into the medical profession, primarily through its control of state licensing processes and the system of medical education.
THE American Medical Association, like other professional associations, suffers from a split personality. While it is devoted to improving the quality of medical care, education and the profession, it also operates as a cartel to protect the economic interests of its members. Although the A.M.A.'s recent report on physician manpower reflects both personalities, the cartel strain is dominant.
I was attempting to strike a common cause with our Texas guy and apparently I just hit a nerve.
I was just pointing out the reality of this economy. We have to examine all of the banking, medical, and other industries prior to blaming all of this nations ills on the auto workers. I hold no ill will and hate for you my friend. By discussion we learn from each other and can respect each others views. Please don't take me too personal. I hope I haven't offend you in any way.
FYI: I don't take it personal when you tell me to get retraining. I have a BS in math and physics, an MBA, and am a patent attorney. I've lived the life of a life long student and will retire in three years.
Well, there's not been much tort reform because the trial lawyers control our state and federal legislature.
California, enacted such a law as to limit the amount in a malpractice case. An OBGYN made a mistake, the insurance company paid out that amount. Unfortunately, the damages to the infant would require millions over his/her lifetime. That would be a burden the taxpayers would be responsible for.
Incidentally, I have a friend who is an OBGYN in San Francisco. He has decided to abandon his specialty and do family practice. Yeah, he is gay also and lives with a significant other. Is he still up there on the stratification scale within your society?
when I was telling hopefully UAW members about retraining I didn't mean you, I meant those who are actual autoworker UAW members. Those that are facing possible layoffs. I have heard of your training background and knew you didn't need any encouragement along those lines.
It's true, dallasdude1, it is very profitable to hear from those who have another view as ours. I've noticed that this thread can get rather heated at times and your views are fodder for some of us others to slash back at you.
I kind of have a feeling that views that are different than yours would not offend you at all. I am also not offended by yours.
This take on the UAW thread has me wondering where our friend rockford fosgate is at. Hope things are well with him.
No, dallas, I know things are messed up in medical. I recall that even to get signed up to enter the Associate in Applied Science degree program for Respiratory Therapy there were several hoops to jump through. It was not exactly easy to get enrolled. I was crossing the country to Missouri from Washington state to get the training, too, and the red tape I had to juggle included that from the state of Washington, state of Missouri and the Federal government. It seemed to be a part-time job in the spring and summer leading up to the start of the degree program in August of '03 to just stay connected to my goal.
But you may indeed be on to something regarding training for actual MD's. That it is restricted. Reminds me of a book by Kevin Trudeau on 'Cures They Don't Want You to Know About.' Mr.Trudeau explains in extricate detail how the medical community tries to shield and hide natural cures for ailments and diseases.
The FDA has a "rule" that only a drug can help or cure a disease or ailment, for instance, when there is documented evidence that there are indeed cures for many ailments that do not require a doctor's prescription or an FDA-approved drug. Greed with the drug companies and the medical field.
Finally, dallas, I do not blame the U.S. economic ills on the autoworkers, for heaven's sake! Our system is a flawed one and personal greed of just a few is impressed upon all of us to all our damage. The Madoff case is just one example.
So, I do not take offense either and I hope we can continue to enjoy participating in this thread to learn more about this subject. I think 2009 is going to contain many surprises before we're through.
Just as dubious is the argument (not made by the A.M.A.) that a surplus would cause physicians to perform unnecessary procedures to maintain income. This problem is most likely when services are rendered under a retrospective cost-reimbursement system that lacks any controls to monitor overutilization. Once again, the increased use of controls, cost-containment measures and incentive-based systems substantially reduce this problem.
That would be what is happening with Medicare fraud. Treatments and tests that are frivolous to satisfy the greed of some clinics and doctors. Fraud is the best argument against National Health care. The only model I have seen and felt was honest is Kaiser Permanente. I am sure there are others. Too bad that the UAW and the D3 did not build their own system as the progressive thinking Henry J. Kaiser did for his ship and autoworkers. If the UAW had any leadership they would have taken the health care system for their workers and retirees decades ago. They were to greedy and lazy would be my guess. Same goes for GM, Ford and Chrysler. Now they want the tax payers to fix their long term mess of their own making.
If our small Alaska Teamsters can build a hospital and save the companies money so could the UAW.
My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
I do know one fine Jesuit doctor who did some time in South America and then went off to Africa to treat the needy in an aids infested country. Dr Mike Tolle is rare and a credit to the profession. Wish more kids want to be like Mike (Tolle).
where would the funding come from for the UAW's hospital? From the members dues? Burp! I don't think so
The companies would pay the health care premiums to the UAW which would administer the Health Care. That is how my Teamster Local Union has done it for 40 years in Alaska. Instead of giving the $800- $900 per month per employee to Blue Cross they pay into the Teamster's Welfare Trust. It is not perfect, but better than many HMO's or the Federal Government.
Let's see only 2??? Well the public and media disagree's because the 2007 Saturn Aura was car of the year followed by the Malibu in 2008
You conveniently forget that the Aura and Malibu are designed by OPEL. GM Europe NOT AMERICA!!!!! besides, they're decent, not world class. The same goes woth MKS. Technology stuffed? So? What else does it have?
Again, you fail to recognize that both the VUE and Solstice are foreign designed. Vue by Daewoo, and Solstice by... again, Opel.
Like I said, only Corvette and CTS are world class American designed cars.
If I remember correctly the Silverado was Truck of the year in 2007
Didn't I say: apart from trucks????
Also many of the union plants rank among the top in quality, productivity, efficiency, but I guess none of this info. matters because you are anti-union!!!
Really? I know Oshawa does a good job, Fairfax a horrible one. How do you prove it??? I see the proof by looking at the vehicles they produce, and they mostly have poor built quality. But I give exception for some Buicks and Cadillacs.
actually, with $800-$900 monthly the Teamsters ought to be able to medically insure most anybody. You're right, it might work better than giving the money to the Fed's to administer.
It so easy to blame the unions, but have you looked lately at Citigroup and Bank of America, the two largest banks in the US, they are going into receivership.
And what makes you think I'm not against them? I recently moved all my money out of BoA because of the bailout. Just FYI...
Why the anti-union rant? Employees who belong to a union make up about what, 10% of the entire labour force or so?
What is the reason for supporting unions especially UAW?
Before you answer, can you please state the virtues of unions like UAW to the society other than higher wages? So far higher wage is all you ever point out, plus some oooolllldd union deeds from 50+ yrs ago.
Why am I against them?
Simple answer: because the existence of unions will lead to stagnant individuals. Unions will at one point destroy the only motivation to make people improve: competition. Each one won't bother to improve him/herself anymore because they'll never get more anyway. Pampering them is like spoiling your kids, result: lazyness, ungratefulness, sloppy works, etc... nothing good will come out of it.
I still prefer UAW to go bye-bye, in fact, although I'm not against any other union, I think it's better if they all go, save for those on federal payroll.
My believe is: When faced with such free market, employers will innitially pay the workers what the employers think they're worth. As they're also free to look for a job elsewhere, they can always move out and work for the other company that pays them better. Soon the previous employer will lose most or all quality wrokers and will be forced to raise the wages tog et the good apples back. On the employees' side, the fierce competition will force them to constantly improve their education and skills to remain competitive, resulting in higher quality individuals thus in the end a stronger and high-quality nation with highly qualified people. Of course, this theory doesn't apply for non-qualified workers. Bad apples are bad apples, they're not worth anything more. Want to get more? Earn it. It's my believe that you don;t need to be a college grad to become a competent human being, all you need is effort.
This way the world will go back to the basics: you get what you're worth, the more effort you put in, the more you get. This is the very basic rule that need apply, not the current unionized income distribution idea.
$1 for bad apples and $5 for good apples = makes sense. $5 for both good and bad apples as UAW (and unions) intended = idiotic.
My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
That really is an incredible statement and shows how little you know. You think just by watching a doctor in a routine delivery that you could do it? What if the baby was breach? Or had the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck? Still think you'd know what to do? Amazing!
If you really believe the UAW, goes on strike without reasons and doesn't take in consideration of the consquences well I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong!!!
If the UAW, had you passsive attitude they would be working for bread crumbs and have no benefits to speak of. "Touch your toes Mr. UAW, worker cuz this is going to hurt" :surprise: .....If you honestly believe most companies bargain in "good faith" well iluv, I have some subtropical ocean front property here in Michigan, to sell you because if you honestly believe that well you will buy my property then!!!!
What if the baby was breach? Or had the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck? Still think you'd know what to do? Amazing!
This is off topic, but those were my thoughts exactly. My first born was a piece of cake for the OB/GYN and I cut the cord. But the second was quite scary. The nurse missed the fact that she was breach. The OB/GYN did a final check before they were going to induce labor and felt feet instead of a head! Off to surgery we went for C section. I guess being a UAW member is like sleeping at a Holiday Inn!!
If you honestly believe most companies bargain in "good faith"
And you are saying the UAW bargains in good faith. When they walk out of a GM plant to show solidarity with AA? If you believe the UAW has been honest in their dealings you would probably believe there is subtropical ocean front property in Michigan.
The UAW uses the old tried and true method of hitting the biggest guy in the bar with a baseball bat, which demoralizes any other would be tough guys. The UAW is no less ruthless than the worst corporations. In fact if you would honestly analyze the strikes over the last 12 years you would come to the same conclusion I have. The D3 have been brought to their knees by the UAW. A corporation that does not make money has no business staying in business. May they RIP...
PS Look at Obama's auto team. 8 out of 10 drive foreign cars. What does that tell you is in store for the UAW?
GM, doesn't do much platform sharing with their cheaper siblings.
If you honestly still believe their is this so called "quality gap" between domestic and foreign cars today you don't know your product knowlege. I sold cars at two dealerships selling mainly pre-owned thus I've put my hands on plenty of foreign and domestic iron and the difference in quality between a Malibu/Aura and a Camcord....well I personally think the Malibu/Aura, are better looking automobiles. imidazol97, can site many sources on the camry's reliability and how well that's worked out for them. How bout the Tundra???? It was flawless also right??? Lexus, with it's sticking gas pedals....I must ask is that the pursuit of perfection??? Don't give me that imports are better than domestic B.S. please!!! Cadillac's CTS is better than the Acura TL, Infiniti G35, and IS 250/350 and has the highest KBB resale value of any ELLPS on the market!!!!
Look at Obama's auto team. 8 out of 10 drive foreign cars. What does that tell you is in store for the UAW?
Where did you hear that from??? "Hush?"
You are amazing gagrice. If you would of had to work in the real world then perhaps your views would be much different. Manufacturing is a lot different than the telephone company which can't be outsourced to a foreign country. I didn't have to look at the strikes over the last dozen years because I lived it!!! How do you know what was really going on outside of what some spokesmouth like Glen Beck, tells you on fixed news dot com???....The reasons why the UAW, went on strike was for "job security" reasons and the UAW faught D3, on outsourcing but when you've had two globalist presidents in office during the last dozen years which helps explain the crisis in manufacturing both union and non-union shops closing up shop here in the U.S. today :sick:
Name me a state with good jobs??? ....Even Wichita Kansas, has been damaged where I was looking to move and applied for several jobs in the airline manufacturing industry and now have all laid-off several thousand people.
Seriously "dude" your constant turning your head to ignore the facts doesn't make you anymore powerful or credible without the "!!!!!!" thus take a hard look at the currency manipulation that gives the "foreign nameplates" who import over 50% of their cars into this country billions of dollars in profit advantages that the D3 can't make go away by just following your lead of refusing to accept the challenge at hand. I know you can rah,rah,rah, about how much better the imports are than domestic cars but even they have seen a sharp decline in sales. If our current system of free-market capitalism is so damn great then why is every industry hurting and why are we in the worst economic times since the great depession? I guess I should turn my head right and "pretend" everything is great, right?
I guess when people are making what they did back in 2000 while everything has gone up but their pay checks well that would have nothing too do with it right?
Among the eight members named Friday to the Presidential Task Force on the Auto Industry and the 10 senior policy aides who will assist them in their work, two own American models. Add the Treasury Department's special adviser to the task force and the total jumps to three. The co-chairs of the task force -- Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and White House National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers -- both own foreign automobiles.
Geithner owns a 2008 Acura TSX, registered in New York. He once owned a 1999 Honda Accord and a 2002 Acura MDX, according to public records.
Geithner is the president's designee for purposes of enforcing loan agreements with GM and Chrysler and must approve or reject any proposed transactions by either company that would cost $100 million or more.
when you've had two globalist presidents in office during the last dozen years
Better make that 3 presidents. This one may be the most global thinking of all. He has Hillary in China as we type making trade deals to keep them buying our worthless treasury bonds. That means selling US more worthless junk. Chery anyone? Though China may be more Unionized than the USA. I know the Unions in Mexico are very strong.
why is every industry hurting and why are we in the worst economic times since the great depession?
If you think this is bad you should have been around for Carter. This is not even close to the Carter years and early 1980s. Until Reagan gave US hope. Something this President is not doing yet. Even Bill Clinton has tried to coach him to no avail. The best way to drive an economy down is for the leaders to preach doom and gloom. Keep this in mind 93 out of 100 workers are still on the job across the USA. You should try North Dakota. It is not that much different than Michigan. At least they are still under 4% unemployed. Just a short drive to visit family.
This discussion is all over the map with off topic and mean-spirited remarks. So much so, I'm considering it should be shut down and started new with a less generic title.
Gagrice, you mentioned not having a place over in OTC. No one is stopping you from creating discussions there. However, as you all know, we are a site focused on the auto industry, so discussions in OTC will not be treated in the same manner as elsewhere on the site.
That's all for now. Please continue...as long as it is pertaining to UAW and its issues.
Don't those ND oil interests need security from terrorist threats. Or will it take another 9/11 to wake up the public?
if you think Michigan, is as cold as North Dakota
Crappy weather is crappy weather. Ten above or ten below, it is still miserable. And Michigan has some miserable weather as well. With your training there has to be jobs somewhere in the country. I think you need to get outside the UAW envelope. They are history for all intents and purposes. They have Pooped in their Mess kit. Life will go on. My friend that lost his dealership mechanics job is working for an independent shop and loves it. He is learning to work on something besides Ford. It is giving him a better perspective. He was only out of work about a month. People are keeping their cars and fixing them rather than buying new when the warranty runs out. Don't expect the country to buy more than 9 million vehicles this year. Get out of the auto industry and into something with a little better future.
Re.: "Medical Cartel", thanks for providing opinions. You have no proof other than them.
As for, Do you have any evidence to refute this history? Spoken like a true lawyer. But, that would be like answering the question, "do you still beat your wife?"
Let's just agree to disagree on this. Besides, this has nothing to do with the UAW issues.
My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
Yeah, what a racket those doctors have (LOL). Who needs 'em?
"That really is an incredible statement and shows how little you know. You think just by watching a doctor in a routine delivery that you could do it? What if the baby was breach? Or had the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck? Still think you'd know what to do? Amazing!"
This discussion is all over the map with off topic and mean-spirited remarks. So much so, I'm considering it should be shut down and started new with a less generic title.
Karen, please do.
(As an alternative you could change the name to the UAW vs. the AMA (LOL).
"The trusts would pay health care bills for about 800,000 UAW retirees, spouses and dependents and move billions in liabilities off the companies' books. GM expects to save about $3 billion a year, while Ford says it will save $1 billion annually.
Ford owes $6.3 billion to its VEBA at the end of this year. GM has to pay roughly $20 billion into its health care trust, while Chrysler must pay around $9.9 billion."
So we're loaning GM and Chrysler $, while they have money to pay retiress and their dependents health care? That isn't very fair to all the retiress in the country who don't get this type of free health care!
A union is a social awakening in the workplace. When the rest of the world barred integration and women, unions brought them all together. Corporations and their government lackeys fear democracy and the right to vote. They want to keep us unorganized and controlled. Racism and gender discrimination are all tools to keep us down. Divided we fall.
Unions are a recognition in the workplace that we are all in this together. Unions give us one big voice. Historically, unions created the environment for social change in America including minimum wage, child labor regulation, 40 hr week, overtime pay, workplace safety standards, breaks and lunches, social security investment, and the basic human right to organize in the workplace.
Corporations have resisted these changes and many union organizers were killed and imprisoned for their efforts. The bosses don't want to give up their entitlements to riches at the expense of the world's workers, as that is how they have controlled and accumulated the power and wealth they now have. They look at us as an "expense," "unskilled" labor. And have convinced many of us, through their media propaganda machine, government manipulation, and workplace management, that we are not worthy of a living wage--that our wages are better off in their pocket, because we are "unskilled."
The most common political definition of "unskilled" labor is UNORGANIZED labor. When we stand up and demand to be recognized as the ones who create the Corporate wealth, and demand a "bigger slice of the pie," then we will be classified as skilled labor and finally rewarded for our work.
Why does this website need to exist? Cant you all just post on a better platform like yahoo or individual blogs. I do not get how the owners can make money on this site.
unions created the environment for social change in America including minimum wage, child labor regulation, 40 hr week, overtime pay, workplace safety standards, breaks and lunches, social security investment, and the basic human right to organize in the workplace.
Now that all of that is Federal Law, why do we need to keep paying dues to a Union? Unions also take away the right to excel at your job and make more money if you are more productive. It keeps the workforce producing to the lowest worker in the unit. That destroys a companies competitive edge. Case in Point, is Delphi with machines set to produce only as much as the slowest worker can handle.
The most common political definition of "unskilled" labor is UNORGANIZED labor. When we stand up and demand to be recognized as the ones who create the Corporate wealth, and demand a "bigger slice of the pie," then we will be classified as skilled labor and finally rewarded for our work.
I hope you did not write that as it makes NO sense at all. What happens when the pie plate is empty, such as the US automakers. Does the UAW say we have to sacrifice if we want to keep our companies viable?
All the Unions I was part of were proud to offer a higher level of skilled technicians than the companies could find on the street. Sadly we did have losers in our ranks. Even sadder is the fact that the companies did not have competent management to document and get rid of the poor producers.
Have you noticed all the ads surrounding the forums? You are supposed to buy one of each to keep our website going. Mention Edmund's when you go looking at cars. I do and they usually take note.
The union, though, shouldn't bear the entire blame for Detroit's disaster. It wasn't the UAW that pushed GM into the home-mortgage market, where it has incurred billions in losses over the last couple of years.
Nor can the UAW be blamed for Saturn and Saab, two brands that never made money, as GM executives have recently acknowledged. What they haven't explained is why their company would keep these money-losers around for nearly 20 years.
It wasn't the UAW that pushed GM into the home-mortgage market, where it has incurred billions in losses over the last couple of years.
I don't remember hearing the UAW screaming when GMAC was bringing in billions from those home loans and was the only reason GM was earning a profit. It was a running joke that GM was a profitable mortgage company that just happens to build cars.
Can't disagree about the quality of GMs management. Saturn was Roger Smith's baby. Once he left, the execs who were left behind wanted nothing to do with Saturn. It was a good idea that was executed poorly. Pretty much what I expect from GM.
>My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
eh? somebody posing as Dallasdude or what? This cannot be the learned dallasdude we know.
There is no big deal in designing and building cars too. I used to design cars when I was in 4th grade on the back-pages of my notebook when the teacher was trying to teach something to me. :sick: :P
And I was building cars even earlier when I was in Kindergarten - making clay models.
Nor can the UAW be blamed for Saturn and Saab, two brands that never made money, as GM executives have recently acknowledged. What they haven't explained is why their company would keep these money-losers around for nearly 20 years.
Just like the UAW, once you got em, you are stuck with them. Didn't GM buy Saab from Sweden as a failed nationalized company? Does not sound like they want it back. Sadly the Saab 9000 being built when GM took over is still a better car than anything GM builds today.
The Swedish government doesn’t plan to risk taxpayers’ money on Saab. Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt said Feb. 18 the U.S. company’s demands amounted to a “trap” set to pressure the government into granting aid.
We should learn from others. You cannot fix something that is beyond repair. That would be GM with their UAW mill stone around their neck.
The union, though, shouldn't bear the entire blame for Detroit's disaster.
I think very few people blame the UAW entirely OR mostly for the failure of the D3. There is plenty of blame to be split amongst the various parties (management, board, union, suppliers, and dealers).
We all make statements here about these various blames and their effects. But in the end it really doesn't matter to most of us, who was to blame. Why? Because whether the UAW has some fault, or no fault at all, they are part of the D3. If the other parts of the D3 screwup, it drags them all down.
My main concern is that I don't support the failed D3, with our tax $'s. The D3 fails or succeeds like everyone else (except the banks, which will be under full government control soon).
Comments
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/reynolds.asp
If we had 129 law schools (instead of 200) and 200 medical schools in the U.S. (instead of 129), it would probably go a long way to solving our "health care crisis." More MDs at much lower salaries along with fewer lawyers and lawsuits would be a good thing, no? Can't breaking up the medical cartel be part of the discussion for health care reform?
http://mjperry.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-couldnt-we-have-200-medical-schools.html-
There is considerable evidence that for much of this century organized
medicine has successfully restricted entry into the medical profession,
primarily through its control of state licensing processes and the
system of medical education.
http://ibiblio.org/pub/academic/medicine/public-health/doctorFees
THE American Medical Association, like other professional associations, suffers from a split personality. While it is devoted to improving the quality of medical care, education and the profession, it also operates as a cartel to protect the economic interests of its members. Although the A.M.A.'s recent report on physician manpower reflects both personalities, the cartel strain is dominant.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9A0DE2DF173AF93AA15755- C0A960948260
Do you have any evidence to refute this history?
I was just pointing out the reality of this economy. We have to examine all of the banking, medical, and other industries prior to blaming all of this nations ills on the auto workers. I hold no ill will and hate for you my friend. By discussion we learn from each other and can respect each others views. Please don't take me too personal. I hope I haven't offend you in any way.
FYI: I don't take it personal when you tell me to get retraining. I have a BS in math and physics, an MBA, and am a patent attorney. I've lived the life of a life long student and will retire in three years.
California, enacted such a law as to limit the amount in a malpractice case. An OBGYN made a mistake, the insurance company paid out that amount. Unfortunately, the damages to the infant would require millions over his/her lifetime. That would be a burden the taxpayers would be responsible for.
Incidentally, I have a friend who is an OBGYN in San Francisco. He has decided to abandon his specialty and do family practice. Yeah, he is gay also and lives with a significant other. Is he still up there on the stratification scale within your society?
Perhaps you can tell us how the banking industry did this trick tenfold?
What ever do you mean? I've been known to moonlight as an OBGYN to the super models and Hollywood starlets.
It's true, dallasdude1, it is very profitable to hear from those who have another view as ours. I've noticed that this thread can get rather heated at times and your views are fodder for some of us others to slash back at you.
I kind of have a feeling that views that are different than yours would not offend you at all. I am also not offended by yours.
This take on the UAW thread has me wondering where our friend rockford fosgate is at. Hope things are well with him.
No, dallas, I know things are messed up in medical. I recall that even to get signed up to enter the Associate in Applied Science degree program for Respiratory Therapy there were several hoops to jump through. It was not exactly easy to get enrolled. I was crossing the country to Missouri from Washington state to get the training, too, and the red tape I had to juggle included that from the state of Washington, state of Missouri and the Federal government. It seemed to be a part-time job in the spring and summer leading up to the start of the degree program in August of '03 to just stay connected to my goal.
But you may indeed be on to something regarding training for actual MD's. That it is restricted. Reminds me of a book by Kevin Trudeau on 'Cures They Don't Want You to Know About.' Mr.Trudeau explains in extricate detail how the medical community tries to shield and hide natural cures for ailments and diseases.
The FDA has a "rule" that only a drug can help or cure a disease or ailment, for instance, when there is documented evidence that there are indeed cures for many ailments that do not require a doctor's prescription or an FDA-approved drug. Greed with the drug companies and the medical field.
Finally, dallas, I do not blame the U.S. economic ills on the autoworkers, for heaven's sake! Our system is a flawed one and personal greed of just a few is impressed upon all of us to all our damage. The Madoff case is just one example.
So, I do not take offense either and I hope we can continue to enjoy participating in this thread to learn more about this subject. I think 2009 is going to contain many surprises before we're through.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
That would be what is happening with Medicare fraud. Treatments and tests that are frivolous to satisfy the greed of some clinics and doctors. Fraud is the best argument against National Health care. The only model I have seen and felt was honest is Kaiser Permanente. I am sure there are others. Too bad that the UAW and the D3 did not build their own system as the progressive thinking Henry J. Kaiser did for his ship and autoworkers. If the UAW had any leadership they would have taken the health care system for their workers and retirees decades ago. They were to greedy and lazy would be my guess. Same goes for GM, Ford and Chrysler. Now they want the tax payers to fix their long term mess of their own making.
If our small Alaska Teamsters can build a hospital and save the companies money so could the UAW.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
I do know one fine Jesuit doctor who did some time in South America and then went off to Africa to treat the needy in an aids infested country. Dr Mike Tolle is rare and a credit to the profession. Wish more kids want to be like Mike (Tolle).
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/061206dnmetfl- oyd.d7cf000.html
The companies would pay the health care premiums to the UAW which would administer the Health Care. That is how my Teamster Local Union has done it for 40 years in Alaska. Instead of giving the $800- $900 per month per employee to Blue Cross they pay into the Teamster's Welfare Trust. It is not perfect, but better than many HMO's or the Federal Government.
I suggest they sell their
country clubtraining center.You conveniently forget that the Aura and Malibu are designed by OPEL. GM Europe NOT AMERICA!!!!! besides, they're decent, not world class. The same goes woth MKS. Technology stuffed? So? What else does it have?
Again, you fail to recognize that both the VUE and Solstice are foreign designed. Vue by Daewoo, and Solstice by... again, Opel.
Like I said, only Corvette and CTS are world class American designed cars.
If I remember correctly the Silverado was Truck of the year in 2007
Didn't I say: apart from trucks????
Also many of the union plants rank among the top in quality, productivity, efficiency, but I guess none of this info. matters because you are anti-union!!!
Really? I know Oshawa does a good job, Fairfax a horrible one. How do you prove it??? I see the proof by looking at the vehicles they produce, and they mostly have poor built quality. But I give exception for some Buicks and Cadillacs.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
And what makes you think I'm not against them? I recently moved all my money out of BoA because of the bailout. Just FYI...
What is the reason for supporting unions especially UAW?
Before you answer, can you please state the virtues of unions like UAW to the society other than higher wages? So far higher wage is all you ever point out, plus some oooolllldd union deeds from 50+ yrs ago.
Why am I against them?
Simple answer: because the existence of unions will lead to stagnant individuals. Unions will at one point destroy the only motivation to make people improve: competition. Each one won't bother to improve him/herself anymore because they'll never get more anyway. Pampering them is like spoiling your kids, result: lazyness, ungratefulness, sloppy works, etc... nothing good will come out of it.
I still prefer UAW to go bye-bye, in fact, although I'm not against any other union, I think it's better if they all go, save for those on federal payroll.
My believe is:
When faced with such free market, employers will innitially pay the workers what the employers think they're worth. As they're also free to look for a job elsewhere, they can always move out and work for the other company that pays them better. Soon the previous employer will lose most or all quality wrokers and will be forced to raise the wages tog et the good apples back.
On the employees' side, the fierce competition will force them to constantly improve their education and skills to remain competitive, resulting in higher quality individuals thus in the end a stronger and high-quality nation with highly qualified people.
Of course, this theory doesn't apply for non-qualified workers. Bad apples are bad apples, they're not worth anything more. Want to get more? Earn it. It's my believe that you don;t need to be a college grad to become a competent human being, all you need is effort.
This way the world will go back to the basics: you get what you're worth, the more effort you put in, the more you get. This is the very basic rule that need apply, not the current unionized income distribution idea.
$1 for bad apples and $5 for good apples = makes sense. $5 for both good and bad apples as UAW (and unions) intended = idiotic.
That really is an incredible statement and shows how little you know. You think just by watching a doctor in a routine delivery that you could do it? What if the baby was breach? Or had the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck? Still think you'd know what to do? Amazing!
If you really believe the UAW, goes on strike without reasons and doesn't take in consideration of the consquences well I'm sorry to tell you that you are wrong!!!
If the UAW, had you passsive attitude they would be working for bread crumbs and have no benefits to speak of. "Touch your toes Mr. UAW, worker cuz this is going to hurt" :surprise: .....If you honestly believe most companies bargain in "good faith" well iluv, I have some subtropical ocean front property here in Michigan, to sell you because if you honestly believe that well you will buy my property then!!!!
-Rocky
This is off topic, but those were my thoughts exactly. My first born was a piece of cake for the OB/GYN and I cut the cord. But the second was quite scary. The nurse missed the fact that she was breach. The OB/GYN did a final check before they were going to induce labor and felt feet instead of a head! Off to surgery we went for C section. I guess being a UAW member is like sleeping at a Holiday Inn!!
And you are saying the UAW bargains in good faith. When they walk out of a GM plant to show solidarity with AA? If you believe the UAW has been honest in their dealings you would probably believe there is subtropical ocean front property in Michigan.
The UAW uses the old tried and true method of hitting the biggest guy in the bar with a baseball bat, which demoralizes any other would be tough guys. The UAW is no less ruthless than the worst corporations. In fact if you would honestly analyze the strikes over the last 12 years you would come to the same conclusion I have. The D3 have been brought to their knees by the UAW. A corporation that does not make money has no business staying in business. May they RIP...
PS
Look at Obama's auto team. 8 out of 10 drive foreign cars. What does that tell you is in store for the UAW?
Honda -> Acura
Nissan -> Infinity
GM, doesn't do much platform sharing with their cheaper siblings.
If you honestly still believe their is this so called "quality gap" between domestic and foreign cars today you don't know your product knowlege. I sold cars at two dealerships selling mainly pre-owned thus I've put my hands on plenty of foreign and domestic iron and the difference in quality between a Malibu/Aura and a Camcord....well I personally think the Malibu/Aura, are better looking automobiles. imidazol97, can site many sources on the camry's reliability and how well that's worked out for them.
-Rocky
Where did you hear that from??? "Hush?"
You are amazing gagrice. If you would of had to work in the real world then perhaps your views would be much different. Manufacturing is a lot different than the telephone company which can't be outsourced to a foreign country. I didn't have to look at the strikes over the last dozen years because I lived it!!! How do you know what was really going on outside of what some spokesmouth like Glen Beck, tells you on fixed news dot com???....The reasons why the UAW, went on strike was for "job security" reasons and the UAW faught D3, on outsourcing but when you've had two globalist presidents in office during the last dozen years which helps explain the crisis in manufacturing both union and non-union shops closing up shop here in the U.S. today :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Seriously "dude" your constant turning your head to ignore the facts doesn't make you anymore powerful or credible without the "!!!!!!" thus take a hard look at the currency manipulation that gives the "foreign nameplates" who import over 50% of their cars into this country billions of dollars in profit advantages that the D3 can't make go away by just following your lead of refusing to accept the challenge at hand. I know you can rah,rah,rah, about how much better the imports are than domestic cars but even they have seen a sharp decline in sales. If our current system of free-market capitalism is so damn great then why is every industry hurting and why are we in the worst economic times since the great depession? I guess I should turn my head right and "pretend" everything is great, right?
I guess when people are making what they did back in 2000 while everything has gone up but their pay checks well that would have nothing too do with it right?
Amazing! :confuse:
-Rocky
It don't look good for GM and the UAW...
Among the eight members named Friday to the Presidential Task Force on the Auto Industry and the 10 senior policy aides who will assist them in their work, two own American models. Add the Treasury Department's special adviser to the task force and the total jumps to three.
The co-chairs of the task force -- Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner and White House National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers -- both own foreign automobiles.
Geithner owns a 2008 Acura TSX, registered in New York. He once owned a 1999 Honda Accord and a 2002 Acura MDX, according to public records.
Geithner is the president's designee for purposes of enforcing loan agreements with GM and Chrysler and must approve or reject any proposed transactions by either company that would cost $100 million or more.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090223/AUTO01/902230327
Better make that 3 presidents. This one may be the most global thinking of all. He has Hillary in China as we type making trade deals to keep them buying our worthless treasury bonds. That means selling US more worthless junk. Chery anyone? Though China may be more Unionized than the USA. I know the Unions in Mexico are very strong.
If you think this is bad you should have been around for Carter. This is not even close to the Carter years and early 1980s. Until Reagan gave US hope. Something this President is not doing yet. Even Bill Clinton has tried to coach him to no avail. The best way to drive an economy down is for the leaders to preach doom and gloom. Keep this in mind 93 out of 100 workers are still on the job across the USA. You should try North Dakota. It is not that much different than Michigan. At least they are still under 4% unemployed. Just a short drive to visit family.
-Rocky
Yep!!!
-Rocky
Gagrice, you mentioned not having a place over in OTC. No one is stopping you from creating discussions there. However, as you all know, we are a site focused on the auto industry, so discussions in OTC will not be treated in the same manner as elsewhere on the site.
That's all for now. Please continue...as long as it is pertaining to UAW and its issues.
That guy needs to run for president!!!
-Rocky
if you think Michigan, is as cold as North Dakota
Crappy weather is crappy weather. Ten above or ten below, it is still miserable. And Michigan has some miserable weather as well. With your training there has to be jobs somewhere in the country. I think you need to get outside the UAW envelope. They are history for all intents and purposes. They have Pooped in their Mess kit. Life will go on. My friend that lost his dealership mechanics job is working for an independent shop and loves it. He is learning to work on something besides Ford. It is giving him a better perspective. He was only out of work about a month. People are keeping their cars and fixing them rather than buying new when the warranty runs out. Don't expect the country to buy more than 9 million vehicles this year. Get out of the auto industry and into something with a little better future.
As for, Do you have any evidence to refute this history? Spoken like a true lawyer. But, that would be like answering the question, "do you still beat your wife?"
Let's just agree to disagree on this. Besides, this has nothing to do with the UAW issues.
My next door neighbor delivered my youngest about 18 years ago. I was there and could have done it myself. Just remember not to fumble.
Yeah, what a racket those doctors have (LOL). Who needs 'em?
"That really is an incredible statement and shows how little you know. You think just by watching a doctor in a routine delivery that you could do it? What if the baby was breach? Or had the umbilical cord wrapped around its neck? Still think you'd know what to do? Amazing!"
Amen!
Karen, please do.
(As an alternative you could change the name to the UAW vs. the AMA (LOL).
Ford owes $6.3 billion to its VEBA at the end of this year. GM has to pay roughly $20 billion into its health care trust, while Chrysler must pay around $9.9 billion."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-02-23-ford-uaw_N.htm
So we're loaning GM and Chrysler $, while they have money to pay retiress and their dependents health care? That isn't very fair to all the retiress in the country who don't get this type of free health care!
Unions are a recognition in the workplace that we are all in this together. Unions give us one big voice. Historically, unions created the environment for social change in America including minimum wage, child labor regulation, 40 hr week, overtime pay, workplace safety standards, breaks and lunches, social security investment, and the basic human right to organize in the workplace.
Corporations have resisted these changes and many union organizers were killed and imprisoned for their efforts. The bosses don't want to give up their entitlements to riches at the expense of the world's workers, as that is how they have controlled and accumulated the power and wealth they now have. They look at us as an "expense," "unskilled" labor. And have convinced many of us, through their media propaganda machine, government manipulation, and workplace management, that we are not worthy of a living wage--that our wages are better off in their pocket, because we are "unskilled."
The most common political definition of "unskilled" labor is UNORGANIZED labor. When we stand up and demand to be recognized as the ones who create the Corporate wealth, and demand a "bigger slice of the pie," then we will be classified as skilled labor and finally rewarded for our work.
Now that all of that is Federal Law, why do we need to keep paying dues to a Union? Unions also take away the right to excel at your job and make more money if you are more productive. It keeps the workforce producing to the lowest worker in the unit. That destroys a companies competitive edge. Case in Point, is Delphi with machines set to produce only as much as the slowest worker can handle.
The most common political definition of "unskilled" labor is UNORGANIZED labor. When we stand up and demand to be recognized as the ones who create the Corporate wealth, and demand a "bigger slice of the pie," then we will be classified as skilled labor and finally rewarded for our work.
I hope you did not write that as it makes NO sense at all. What happens when the pie plate is empty, such as the US automakers. Does the UAW say we have to sacrifice if we want to keep our companies viable?
All the Unions I was part of were proud to offer a higher level of skilled technicians than the companies could find on the street. Sadly we did have losers in our ranks. Even sadder is the fact that the companies did not have competent management to document and get rid of the poor producers.
Nor can the UAW be blamed for Saturn and Saab, two brands that never made money, as GM executives have recently acknowledged. What they haven't explained is why their company would keep these money-losers around for nearly 20 years.
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/Extra/hey-gm-can-i-retire-at-48-t- oo.aspx
I don't remember hearing the UAW screaming when GMAC was bringing in billions from those home loans and was the only reason GM was earning a profit. It was a running joke that GM was a profitable mortgage company that just happens to build cars.
Can't disagree about the quality of GMs management. Saturn was Roger Smith's baby. Once he left, the execs who were left behind wanted nothing to do with Saturn. It was a good idea that was executed poorly. Pretty much what I expect from GM.
Therein is the essence of GM.
eh? somebody posing as Dallasdude or what? This cannot be the learned dallasdude we know.
There is no big deal in designing and building cars too.
I used to design cars when I was in 4th grade on the back-pages of my notebook when the teacher was trying to teach something to me. :sick: :P
And I was building cars even earlier when I was in Kindergarten - making clay models.
Therein is the essence of GM.
It's a new slogan for after the bankruptcy! "Good ideas...executed poorly"
Just like the UAW, once you got em, you are stuck with them. Didn't GM buy Saab from Sweden as a failed nationalized company? Does not sound like they want it back. Sadly the Saab 9000 being built when GM took over is still a better car than anything GM builds today.
The Swedish government doesn’t plan to risk taxpayers’ money on Saab. Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt said Feb. 18 the U.S. company’s demands amounted to a “trap” set to pressure the government into granting aid.
We should learn from others. You cannot fix something that is beyond repair. That would be GM with their UAW mill stone around their neck.
I think very few people blame the UAW entirely OR mostly for the failure of the D3. There is plenty of blame to be split amongst the various parties (management, board, union, suppliers, and dealers).
We all make statements here about these various blames and their effects. But in the end it really doesn't matter to most of us, who was to blame. Why? Because whether the UAW has some fault, or no fault at all, they are part of the D3. If the other parts of the D3 screwup, it drags them all down.
My main concern is that I don't support the failed D3, with our tax $'s. The D3 fails or succeeds like everyone else (except the banks, which will be under full government control soon).