There is also a better return on those risks as GM, proved when they got out of the stock market and put the money they made in secure area's and now it's really a non-issue!!!
Says who? PBGC claims that GM is underfunded by 20% currently.
Thursday, February 19, 2009 GM needs $12.3B for pension fund by 2014 GM disclosed on Tuesday that its pension funds were underfunded by $12.7 billion as of Dec. 31 -- with an $11.1 billion shortfall in its hourly pension fund and $1.7 billion in its salaried fund.
As I said the CAW, has always lived off what the UAW, has negotiated and let's not forget the Canadians have national healthcare thus if they are so great then hell I'm with you and let's adopt Canada's socialist style of government for ours. Can we in this new government allow foreign leaders to run for office???
We can elect Jens Stoltenberg, for president of the United States of America, in 2012!!!! :shades:
I did not say anything bad about Saab. My partner switched to Volvo and wishes he had his 9000 back. They just do not sell very many and do not make enough money to support 4500 Union workers. I do think that GM kind of messed them up. They were a great car in 1990. Not sure the same can be said now that they are just GM rebadges. Why pay $50k for a Trailblazer with Saab on the nameplate. You can get the same thing for $35k
When the 2007 contract was reached the GM pension was fully funded or 99.6% according to the PBGC due to the huge gains it made in 2006 when the stock market hit 14,000. That is the data I was using to make the 80 year claim....They must of lost a lot of money this past year to be underfunded once again!!! :confuse:
Well you can get a 9-7x which doesn't come even close to $50K (btw) for well under $35K....I think they are marking the 09's down like $10-15K off sticker. The 5.3 V8 version of the 9-7x might make me a nice used car someday but I kinda have my heart set on a very low mileage 99-2000 GMC Yukon Denali, but that depends on my next job and how much I have to drive.
Our only Saab dealer, is also Cadillac, Hummer and GMC. Sounds like they will lose two brands. You should get a great buy on a used Denali. I should have never sold my 99 Suburban. I had it 7+ years with only 45k miles on it, when I sold it in Pristine condition.
I don't know what GM was thinking when they bought Saab. I can't see any evidence that they did anything useful with them. At least Ford was able to use some some components from Volvo to improve their own product. GM and Ford both should have never went on the spending spree buying up nameplates. I think if that money would have been invested in their product, both would have been better off.
How did investing in Volvo, Saab, Fiat, Aston, and Jag etc, help compete against Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and Hundai? The only investments that have any sense have been Mazda, Opel, Daewoo, Holden, and Wuling in China. I don't know enough about Vauxhaul to determine if that was smart or not.
Michael Whouley, among the party's most respected organizers of grass-roots politics, most recently was a top strategist on Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign
How did he do for Hillary???
GM must have deep pockets to hire an expensive lobbyist. Why not use the UAW lobbyist? Though Obama says no lobbyist allowed in His administration... Yeah right..
Only got her 18 million votes the most in primary history and if the DNC would of counted Florida and Michigan, well she would of been president!!!
GM must have deep pockets to hire an expensive lobbyist. Why not use the UAW lobbyist? Though Obama says no lobbyist allowed in His administration... Yeah right..
Our only Saab dealer, is also Cadillac, Hummer and GMC. Sounds like they will lose two brands.
Yep!!! It probably was a profitable dealer group I assume.
You should get a great buy on a used Denali.
I hope so...There is a couple of them out their that have caught my eye with less than 50K on them. I now just need to find another job because I think I can finally break even on the plum Impala, that my ex wife to be forged in my name. Hopefully next week Kelloggs will call me for a 2nd interview. I can only hope!!!
I should have never sold my 99 Suburban. I had it 7+ years with only 45k miles on it, when I sold it in Pristine condition.
If I had your money I would probably own a new 2009' Black GMC Sierra Denali or wait for the Turbocharged MKS. Lemko, what do you think of the UAW-Made Lincoln MKS???....
However gagrice, those old Chevy/GMC Trucks and SUV's were better made than the GMT-800's from 99/2000 on. However the GMT-900's seem to be holding up pretty well from what I've been told. I would love to own a Cadillac Escalade Platinum Edition the size of a Suburban for traveling. I just need to win the Mega-Millions, LOL :P
I'm much better off financially than my father. I am married with three kids. My oldest just recd her degree in Mechanical Engineering with a minior in Bioengineering. Being married and raising kids is certainly not for everyone. It's taken me 22 years to sort of get used to the idea. Each of us needs to do what we feel comfortable with. We cannot live someone else's life.
Life for me is like walking on a tight rope. The trick is a positive mental attitude, and don't look down. But I don't see a bankrupt, impoverished, crime-infested, ultra-violent, deindustrialized America of the near future. I think my kids will do well. New opportunities present themselves all the time, if you look for them.
Things change all the time, and have always changed throughout history. It has never been any other way, and thiings are changing now. Adaptation has always been the key. That's why we all need to arm ourselves with any and all tools available to us, like education.
Maybe try looking up more, and not down. It aint over until its over.....
GM's pension plan is not the only one that's taken a hit. So has mine (still have the defined benefit part from the legacy plan, before they moved to the cash balance plan).
The company has reduced the amount of money in the merit pool for 2009 in order to fund the plan. That means fewer raises and lower raises. BTW, professionals here have been all-merit for the past 25 years or so. No COLAs, step increases, raise for learning to tie your shoes, etc.
...GM pension was fully funded or 99.6% according to the PBGC
I'm curious. Was that really 99.6% funded (to the level needed to meet all of the plan's obligations), or was it only 99.6% funded to the minimum level required by the PBGC. I know my company tends to weasel -word things like that. You know, "The pension plan is fully funded to the minimum levels as required by law", that sort of thing.
"".....What bob will likely say, and I'll be ready to agree with him..., is that he gets paid what the market rate is for his services. So do I. So do the new hires on he UAW contract."
I would agree with that save one thing. Go into court and try to represent yourself. I know it's not smart. Lawyers don't go to school for 6 years and have to pass a bar that seems to be nearly impossible to pass for nothing. I'm sure Bob has a wealth of knowledge and a personality to boot that is a boon in a court."
Well, shucks, thanks for the kind words...I am ALMOST speechless, but, rest assured, I will find SOMETHING to say...
I try and know my stuff, and my "wealth" of knowledge varies by the day...BUT, I am subject to market forces, that's for sure...
I have lost Bankruptcy clients who went to someone else who was $50 cheaper...they take 30 minutes of my time, they even TELL me that I was the most courteous attorney they had spoken to, and the most informative, and then go to the other guy to save 50 bucks...kinda like getting all your questions answered by the local Honda dealer (oops, this is the UAW topic), I mean, local Chevy dealer, and then go to the volume store for the better price... :confuse: :P
Also, even after quoting a fee, sometimes you find out that the entire fee was used up just conversing with the Client and drafting their pleadings (legal documents for court), but I still have the many hours of depositions, possible trial, and other matters that will not be compensated, simply because they could not afford the actual cost...
As rocky wants to know, am I worth what I am paid???...I hope so...the listed hourly rate never actually works out that way, simply because you just don't often get paid for everything you do...now, remember, I am a small law firm, no secretary or paralegal, just me...I answer the phone, do my own typing, show up in court, etc...the larger firms have secretaries who are paid to keep track of time to the minute...
I do NOT believe in nickel-and-diming clients, either...unless postage goes over $5.00 (Fedex comes to mind) I do not charge for postage or photocopies (most charge 25-50 cents per copy, I charge zero, unless we make over 100 copies or some other ridiculous amount)...I also do not charge for telephone calls of a few minutes...most attorneys, if you call them just to ask the time, and they answer, "12:00 noon...goodbye", they will charge for 1/10 hour...I will not do that, as I feel that tiny amounts like that only irritate the client...now, 15 minutes or more, charges will ensue...after all, if you don't charge at all, they will keep you on the phone for an hour, talking about whether the Braves will make it to the Super Bowl, and I truly don't have the time for childish things like sports (OTOH, if I was a sports lawyer, I WOULD have the time for childish things like sports...:):):)...)
So, that's me...don't think I don't compete, because in my field, the competition is stiff for bankruptcy work...but, since the client has the choice, I must deal with it...whereas the UAW thinks they have a Divine Right to a minimum salary for work that an illiterate illegal imiigrant could be trained to do in about an hour...
To train a lawyer would take at least a full day, even in Daylight Saving Time...:):):)
"That is why I'm for National Healthcare and I also think one should be limited to so many children but I won't open up that can of worms"
Well, we can agree on one thing...altho I can't stand the idea of national healthcare, I can absolutely agree that anyone on welfare who has a child must be sterilized during birth so they are incapable of adding more load to the taxpayer...
And to think they wanted Medicaid to cover Viagra...the best thing to happen to this country would be for every male welfare recipient to suffer lifetime impotence, since they usually stay on welfare for their lifetime...sheesh, what idiot comes up with those ideas anyway???
That is A LOT of pension for blue collar. $3000 a month should easily allow the retiree to take care of "ALL" their health care cost.
Seriously, I'm certainly not taking up for the UAW but do any of you really want to retire at $36,000/yr and still pay for your health care. Hopefully if that is anyone's pension amount I hiope they are getting SS or a payout of a 401K.
I'm still single and don't want any children. I'm worried about surviving my own life. What kind of life would my hypothetical children live in the bankrupt, impoverished, crime-infested, ultra-violent, deindustrialized America of the near future? At least if I go down, I won't be dragging any innocent people with me.
That's a pretty bleak picture you're painting. Sounds like your glass is half empty.
I think Lemko's only joy in life is on the occasional nice sunny day in Philly when he gets out the DTS for a ride in Lemko. All that car and no kids? Get busy man:)
Then again, I would have a depressed outlook too if I was driving around in a 1988 Park Ave;)
Not depressed, just realistic. There are a lot of people who are parents who really shouldn't be.
I love my 1988 Buick Park Avenue! Nothing depressing about it whatsoever! Oh, and I immensely enjoy bringing out either the DTS or the Brougham on a nice sunny day!
Good to see you back. How is that new job? Non UAW I hope. That is not what I would consider a great retirement after 25 years.
Hi. I never really left - just lurking in the background. Actually, sometimes when I miss a day or two on here and I come back to see 300+ new messages I usually just skip to the last page and read the latest summary of the ongoing UAW arguments. You know you guys will never change the other side's opinion on all this, right?
The new job is going well. I'm with the IBEW and starting to build up a new pension. Hopefully there will be no layoffs in the defense industry. The new president is from the same state that my company's headquarters is in so maybe some more contracts will get thrown our way now. A certain defense contractor down in Texas had been getting the majority of the defense business for a long time although I'm sure that didn't have anything to do with where they're located.
Anyway, the last of the UAW holdouts from Chrysler here in St. Louis are nervous about whether the restructuring plan will put and end to the only remaining production shift left that builds the Ram truck. The two minivan shifts are gone, the plant is closed and the truck 2nd shift was laid off last fall.
Some analysts say that they might keep the plant open just to say that the truck is still built in the USA (there's a similar plant in Mexico). Many of us are wondering why they didn't consider that when they closed the only USA Chrysler minivan plant and moved it all to Canada.
Looking back I'm glad I took the buyout money and ran although if GM is giving $3k/mo for a pension the UAW negotiating team at Chrysler needs to talk to some people.
Hopefully there will be no layoffs in the defense industry.
Remember the party in charge will probably never go to war short of anything like a nuclear attack.
Besides, when we turn into a Socialist country weapons of war lose their priority. What was it I saw for sale a few years back? For sale: French Army Rifle. Never fired and olny dropped once
The new president is from the same state that my company's headquarters is in so maybe some more contracts will get thrown our way now
Working for Boeing in St. Louis, right ?
I'm not sure about the no layoffs in the defense industry thing, though. Defense has been doing pretty well the past 8+ years. Some pullback in defense spending, given the new administration and the general state of the economy, is probably coming your/our way. A couple of high-cost programs such as the F-22 always seem to be one committee vote away from cancellation.
>The slow down in junk mail is probably part of the financial problem
The credit card apps have been replaced with car warranty companies selling their faux warranty programs trying to disguise themselves as being related to the manufacturers. They send envelopes, they advertise on TV and they call trying to sell their crap.
"Union workers at Fremont's car-and-truck factory might be facing the first layoffs in the 25-year history of the plant unless they agree to take off one unpaid day every week."
I received one in the mail today. I was tempted to call and let them do their spiel, and then start asking hundreds of stupid questions (Does your warranty cover the carburetor in my Gremlin? What about the rubber bands in the Yugo?). But, I have better things to do... But, if I'm bored one day...
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I was tempted to call and let them do their spiel, and then start asking hundreds of stupid questions (Does your warranty cover the carburetor in my Gremlin? What about the rubber bands in the Yugo?).
I did do that one day when I was bored and got a tele-marketer on the phone, I think it was AT&T, asked all kinds of stupid question, repeating them over and over but using different words. I really couldn't believe they hung on as long as they did. But she finally did hang up when I start telling her she had a sexy voice, LOL.
A friend at work tells me she puts in a porn DVD, turns up the volume on the TV, and sets the phone down near it when she gets a tele-marketing call. And no, I didn't ask her about the porn DVD.
Then why is GM such a big loser. They have at least twice as many UAW workers as they need to get the job done.
We Seattle-area Boeing workers would chat each other up when stressful layoff periods would breeze in. For Boeing it goes in cycles. The SPEEA union members were always angry about something. Phil Condit's(another CEO from Boeing that is long gone now) having an affair at work, Harry Stonecipher(he's the CEO from McDonnell-Douglas that Boeing acquired who became a co-CEO with Condit for the bigger, better Boeing Co.)when we "merged" with McDouggies, that man basically ruled with an iron fist) is doing this or doing that to anger the union throngs. The liberal Seattle-area union workers really got their panties in a bunch over Stonecipher, because Harry was da man, da Boss-man, what Harry said goes. The two of them fell off of face with everyone else and were let go. I think Stonecipher actually retired, beleaugered from dealing with an obstinate union, SPEEA, that demanded a lot but really gave very little. Condit was fired, in bitter disgrace. Alan Mullaly was hired as CEO after these two were fried wither and tither by the tough Seattle-area working throngs.
But really, you pro-union guys, Boeing's white-collar union, SPEEA, was a big money-dragging scheme. When you take our dues times the number of Engineers/Tech.'s, these unionites in control really made a umm...killing.
Don't expect them to be able to do squat if you get the dreaded Boeing's pink slip. Just don't even think of withholding your dues, either. Won't work. Like I've said on here about 5 times now, the Company's first offer was worth more in pay and benefits than the one the stupid SPEEA members struck the Company 40 days for in early 2000! That was and still is the longest white-collar strike in history. What a joke. They're badgered theirselves into accepting the worst offer, then made it sound to everyone everywhere that they had earned some kind of "moral" victory. What a bunch of dopes. Really they were. I have a few people I still communicate with from Boeing's. The rest couldn't see past their own nose to spite their over-sized view of theirselves. At Boeing, a good, hardworking gentlemen is an "enemy". Better take care of him. Lay him off. Boeing's answer for everything. Goofiest company I have ever worked for, and I worked 20 years for them. Worked well. Worked smart. Solved drawing problems. Got laid off for my concern.
Unions may have been useful in the 20's or 30's or 40's. Since WWII they haven't been necessary. As Boeing has to keep telling the airlines, keep waiting patiently for your Dreamliners, our union-led engineers, mechanics, illustrators and so on, are more than happy to work slowly, eat lots of gloppy raspbery donuts and Starbuck's and talk about their beloved Mariners. Let's just let a real team from a real sport, NBA basketball, dangle on the vine. But mention the Mariners and they all get a titter and a glow about them.
Sheesh, I am so glad I'm out of there. If Boeing just fell off of the Mukilteo bluffs in to the Puget Sound I would find it difficult to bat an eyelash of grief.
Let those know-it-all managers of any and all levels battle hand-to-hand with the octpii at the bottom of the dark saltwaters of Puget Sound. Look out, we'll...lay off all of you bad octupii!
Good riddance. I'm pickin' up the strongest vibes that GM is going in to bankruptcy. It's a shame the dumb UAW's union didn't think about how much they were dragging the company in to the ground...striking when things were not very...umm...profitable. Real smart. :sick:
Healthcare and dental work is too expensive, I agree. Even as an Allied Healthcare worker I would have to agree. The drug companies just make things worse by way over-charging for their wares...wares that take thousands of overpaid employees punching either a '0' or a '1' over and over and over and over again, until the magic "click" of the newly found drug of America's choice is hatched, so to speak.
And doctors run tests that aren't really needed. As a Certified Respiratory Therapy Technician I just follow doctor's orders. Oh, we suggest treatment plans of attack to the doctors and make a tad bit of our own decisions, in the pt.'s best interests, sure we do. But doctors run up the services sometimes. And to add to the expense, patients come in thinking they're having the "big one", the end-all heart attack, when all they've done is eat too many burrito's, refrito's, chilito's and what-have-you, and are suffering a nasty gas attack is all. I'm serious, the waste list just goes on and on. We are not a perfect people, are we?
Do people need good wages to survive on? Of course they do. But you don't just strike a company just because you get the testosterone-fueled fury of a big group of morons chipping at your butt encouraging you to "have" to strike. How about thinking about the negative impact of a strike? Ever thought of that? Maybe what you make Mr.Autoworker, isn't top story for all of us. Maybe your strike might just cause some money problems down the furry road for your employer, eh? That's where I disagree with unions. I want to think on my own, not be snorkled and hog-tied by a bunch of dorky morons that are just thinking about the next oversized pick-em-up truck they need. Think for a sec.
What you do now affects what happens to you 5 years down the road.
Anyone heard of any mudslide forecasts for the area about 25-30 miles north-northwest of Seattle? Any Weather Channel experts on here? Oh, that would really be a shame, wouldn't it? Your head popped open by the suctions of an octopus. Ewww. :sick:
Oh, and watch for yet another Dreamliner delay announcement in the next coupla weeks, too Boeing dreams big. :sick:
Should we lay them off, too? That's their answer for everything. Morons.
Well, we are a car site, not the HuffPo or Rush. Talking about the politics behind VEBA or RTW or the union card check bill is one thing, but just throwing potshots back and forth between the red and blue sides doesn't relate to cars or the unions. You can get all that political dreck you need elsewhere.
The UAW retirees may not get to vote on the ratification but they can sue. There's plenty of other cases where they did just that - here's one:
>4. differentiating higher end product by offering better amenities/options, and not by reducing the quality of the lower end offerings. >I'm not sure what brands you are tal(k)ing about???
Toyota -> Lexus Honda -> Acura Nissan -> Infinity
All of these brands use the same platforms on their low end and high end offerings. But the differentiating factor between them is the luxuries and amenities offered on the premium brand, not the lack of basic necessities on lower end offerings.
>1. producing better quality products and >That's a matter of a personal opinion
Since when did quality become personal opinion? You know what I am talking about. I'd appreciate if you come out of denial.
>2. year after year offering better products for marginal increase in cost? >Thanks to currency manipulation!!!
Agreed that currency manipulation plays its part in this scenario. However, who is encouraging this? The US business, govenrnment and lobbyists who want to provide an improved EPS to the shareholders, who are in most cases residents of USA.
>My aunts best friend moved to Alabama, after getting laid-off at the hospital as a registered nurse in Kalamazoo, MI. My cousin still can't find work as a X-ray Tech so yes iluv, the healthcare industry is feeling the effects and the bonuses they once paid to attract nurses well is gone!!!
>They are coming to Michigan, looking for workers but I refuse to be miserable and move to North Dakota!!! I would hate it there with a passion!!!!
Of course you have to move where the jobs are. If I was in your shoes, I would still be living in a village in India running my family owned convenience store, and then btching about life.
In US itself I have moved from NY to NJ to TX. Follow the money trail.
1. Dollar is high. GM: We can't make profit, any money we make overseas (e.g. China) is diminished due to the exchange rate. Anything we export is uncompetitive in Mexico and Canada. We are losing money. Do something! 2. Dollar is low. GM: Our competitors set prices that are too low and we can't compete. We are losing money. Do something!
Now seriously. I'm sick and tired of those excuses of currency manipulation as main reason of D3 being in the dump. Anybody with any knowledge from economics knows that yes, it happens and no, it usually doesn't help as intended. Every time a government tries to intervene with tariffs, currency or subsidies, results are usually the same: short term boosts, long term suffering, lack of innovation, consummer decline. Usually people who are supposed to be protected by those policies suffer the most.
Rocky, Dallas Dude et al. can scream all day long (and Rocky literally does with his overuse of exclamation signs - seriously dude, can't you speak like a normal person? Using "!!!!!!" won't make it any more true or any more powerful - really) about all those evil forces that conspired to D3 decline. It won't mask the truth that D3 is where it is because decades of inferior product, too high costs and same decades of denials. The product got better (wow - now they say it might just be "as good" - whooheaw!), but the cost issue still persists and seems to have no end. Now GM wants 2 billion every month for next year or more. What a joke.
As the last union worker walks out of the plant, and hopefully turns off the lights, the remainder of the auto industry will thrive, but south of Michigan...
I saw an analyst on TV yesterday, obviously in favor of right-to-work states, showing the job growth over the last 5 (10?) years, comparing union to right to work states...RTW sates showed a much higher growth rate, overall, and it is obvious to ANYONE but a union member...American workers can make a good product, but companies are working hard to avoid any semblance of a union...
Anyone outside a union, just like anyone outside of a urban gang, can see why unions are the death knell for employment...unions do NOT see themselves as militant, greedy, or consumed by the welfare entitlement attitude, anymore than a gang does not see itself as violent, even tho any fool can see that it is...
The Obama admin wants to make unions MANDATORY in all 50 states, taking away the right of the state to control it own laws...how arrogant of the Democrats (now you WILL start to see the difference between Repubs and Democrats, and it won't be pretty) and I want to see how the Southern states respond to it...
Unions are dinosaurs, esp the UAW, since they will soon realize that floor sweeping is not worth $35/hour in anybody's factory, including theirs...how can they be so stupid...
When GM was the dominant force, they could get away with anything, and the junk they sold us proves it...now, GM is just another player, and they will not sell us junk, as we have more alternatives than we have choices of breakfast cereal...and thank God for that, or the junk of the 70s would be called "state of the art" today, if not for Hon,Toy and Nissan...
"Union workers at Fremont's car-and-truck factory might be facing the first layoffs in the 25-year history of the plant unless they agree to take off one unpaid day every week."
Guess them Toyota Corolla's ain't selling too well.
Detroit contends the money is necessary to help it achieve the corporate average fuel economy of 35 mpg (6.7 L/100 km) by 2020, as mandated by the federal energy act signed into law last December. The low-cost loans were promised — but not allocated — as part of the legislation.
Presidential candidates Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain backed the loans after it became clear the automotive-centric states of Michigan and Ohio would be key in swinging the election. Earlier, McCain opposed the loans, and they were not even a blip on the Obama campaign's radar.
In other parts of the world, governments routinely help their domestic auto industries with tax breaks, reimbursement for research and development, worker training funds and — perhaps most significantly — state-sponsored health care.
“It would be hard to find a country that has less of a broad infrastructure to support the auto industry than the U.S.,” says manufacturing expert Harley Shaiken, a professor at the University of California-Berkeley.
“Certainly Germany and Japan do,” Shaiken tells Ward's. “Beyond that, I think there is a broader understanding of the importance of a manufacturing base to the health of an economy.”
In the U.S., perhaps no other country has drawn more scrutiny about government support for its auto industry than Japan
This year, Jim Press, a former senior executive with Toyota and now vice chairman at Chrysler LLC, told BusinessWeek the Japanese government funded development of the Prius hybrid-electric drivetrain. Toyota insists it developed the Prius on its own.
Guess them Toyota Corolla's ain't selling too well.
Or is it the Pontiac Vibe? It will be a chance for Toyota to rid themselves of the UAW leeches in a failed experiment. I am surprised that CA has not taxed them out of the state already. I am surprised you are gloating over the only Toyota UAW workers losing jobs. I thought you were all brothers. I guess only when the UAW built cars have D3 names on them.
This year, Jim Press, a former senior executive with Toyota and now vice chairman at Chrysler LLC, told BusinessWeek the Japanese government funded development of the Prius hybrid-electric drivetrain. Toyota insists it developed the Prius on its own.
That is what I heard also. That the Prius took $2 billion in R&D much of it supplied by the Japanese government. So how does that compare to the $13.4 we have flushed down the UAW GM toilet in the last 3 months? What do the US tax payers have to show for the money. Not even a car that will beat a Prius in Mileage. Sad waste of tax dollars.
Employees knew that Hastings Manufacturing Co., a family-owned auto-parts supplier 30 miles south of Grand Rapids, Mich., was in deep water. Facing financial pressure, 375 employees--two-thirds of whom were in the United Auto Workers' (UAW) bargaining unit-conceded $1 million in benefits to save their company, relinquishing newly negotiated pay raises and agreeing to cover part of their own health care costs. But according to UAW Local 138 Chief Steward Kim Townsend, who testified before the House Commercial and Administrative Law subcommittee in September, when Hastings' management declared bankruptcy and was taken over by the private equity firm Anderson Group in December 2005, the slicing didn't stop there. Sick days were cut in half, an existing two-tier wage system with a top rate of $13.49 an hour was maintained and the allotment for bargaining time was limited to two hours a month on company time. For retirees, the consequences were more dire, with pensions and health care coverage all but severed.
To market analysts, Hastings appears more profitable today. But its value stems not from innovation but from breaking obligations to the company's employees and retirees. "We make the same products," Townsend said at the hearing, "in the same building, with the same equipment, for the same customers as we did before the asset sale."
And as if the plethora of these kind of stories are not bad enough, a tax loophole, one that both Democrats and Republicans alike appear loathe to do anything about, allows these fund managers to declare their profits from these takeovers as capital gains. This means their income is taxed at the 15% capital gains rate instead of the 35% rate appropriate for this kind of obsene economic gain. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you're paying more in taxes than a hedge fund manager who made a cool billion last year. Big name firms such as Cerberus Capital Management, The Carlysle Group, The Blackstone Group and Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts (KKR) take advantage of this loophole with stunning success.
How's that for fair?
So what are the economic consequences of this kind of behavior for our nation? Well, it's that we start to resemble the very Developing World dictatorships we often sanctimoniously decry in the press. Here is a nice helping of this hypocrisy for you:
According to Executive Excess 2007, a study released in August by the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy, the 20 highest-paid fund managers made an average of $657.5 million last year--22,255 times the average annual U.S. salary of $29,500.
This is not only an immoral way to treat the middle class and working Americans on whose backs this country's economy was built. It also provides an atmosphere ripe for the kind of Abramoffian political corruption with which we have all sadly become accustomed over the past seven years. Furthermore, this increasing subjugation of everone except those at the very top of the income ladder is dangerous for a democracy, as any historian can tell you.
Which reminds me. Gordon Gekko had another piece of sage advice in the movie Wall Street. At one point in the film he turns to his new protege, stock broker Bud Fox, and offers this prescient observation with practiced nonchalance, "now you're not naïve enough to think that we're living in a democracy, are you, Buddy? It's the free market, and you're part of it."
In a globalized world, the law of supply and demand is in play with lots more workers around everywhere than enough jobs for them. It keeps corporate costs low and profits high and growing with Business Week (BW) magazine reporting in its April 9 issue "the share of (US) national income going to corporate profits (compared to labor) is hovering around a 50 year high." BW then quoted Harvard economist Richard Freeman's research paper saying only "a global pandemic that kills millions of people" could cause a labor shortage and elevate worker bargaining power.
There's little in sight, and the result is a huge reserve army of unemployed or underemployed working people creating an inevitable race to the bottom in a corporatized marketplace. It harms workers everywhere, including in developed nations. They're outsourcing good jobs abroad to lower wage countries and pressuring workers to do more for less because they've got little bargaining power to fight back. More on this below.
Earlier in 2001 and new in office, Bush showed his anti-labor stripes straightaway. He invoked the Railway Labor Act blocking a threatened strike by 10,000 mechanics, cleaners and custodians at Northwest Airlines set for March 12. He acted again against United Airlines' 15,000 mechanics in December. He also took management's side in August, 2006 against Northwest's 8700 flight attendants' planned job action against the bankrupt airline's unfair demands for huge wage cuts and increases in hours worked. Bill Clinton was just as unfriendly invoking the Railway Labor Act against American Airline's pilots and to prevent railroad strikes 13 times.
George Bush supports corporate interests aiming to crush unions so they have free reign to treat workers any way they wish or go find other work. In the wake of 9/11, he took on public sector unions straightaway. He denied 170,000 new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) employees their civil service protection and right to bargain collectively. Those affected included Transportation Security Administration (TSA) newly federalized airport screeners. They lost their right to unionize in the name of national security that could as easily been for any reason or none at all. But this was just for starters. Bush also wants federal positions contracted out to private companies. That jeopardizes 850,000 federal employees likely to get lower pay, fewer benefits, loss of other unionized rights, and many of them ending up out of work.
Greater worker clout under unions is why management wants to destroy them. It's to deny working people their right to organize, earn more and get greater benefits corporations don't want to provide. It's happening in the gilded age of George Bush, and a recent example came in a ruling late last year when his administration's NLRB ruled 3-2 against registered nurses' right to union membership if they perform certain minimal supervisory duties.
It was in a case where United Auto Workers (UAW) were trying to organize nurses at a Taylor, Michigan-based hospital. US labor law doesn't guarantee supervisors the right to organize making the NLRB ruling hugely important for up to eight million workers in other trades. It may potentially deny their right henceforth to qualify for union representation if employers want to use this ruling to add enough supervisory responsibilities to employees' job descriptions to throw them into a union-exempt category.
Just the way Ronald Reagan busted PATCO, George Bush tipped his hand straightaway in office. He's a company man and union-hater, so henceforth it's been open season on workers and their rights under his administration. His policies range from:
-- a one-sided support for management;
-- stripping workers of their right to unionize;
-- cutting pay raises for 1.8 million federal workers on the pretext of a "national emergency;"
-- denying millions overtime pay;
-- appointing anti-union officials;
-- scheming to weaken (and then end) retirement security by replacing Social Security with risky private accounts managed by Wall Street sharks that so far has gotten nowhere because of public opposition to it;
-- weakening environmental regulations and protections; and more in an endless war on workers in service to corporate interests that elected and own him.
Bad example, DD. As you must know by now, the air traffic controllers' strike was clearly illegal. Air traffic controllers are Federal employees, & Federal employees have always been barred from striking. Every newly hired Federal employee learns this on his first day of employment. (I know this because I was once a Federal employee.)
If Reagan had not "busted" this strike, he would not have been doing his job.
irritation back then, knowing that these people who are supposed to be keeping the skies safe, are getting extreme cases of overselfishness. When they know good and well they were violating Federal rules, too. :mad:
Or is it the Pontiac Vibe? It will be a chance for Toyota to rid themselves of the UAW leeches in a failed experiment. I am surprised that CA has not taxed them out of the state already. I am surprised you are gloating over the only Toyota UAW workers losing jobs. I thought you were all brothers. I guess only when the UAW built cars have D3 names on them.
Clearly they are building cars no one wants to buy.
Comments
Says who? PBGC claims that GM is underfunded by 20% currently.
Thursday, February 19, 2009
GM needs $12.3B for pension fund by 2014
GM disclosed on Tuesday that its pension funds were underfunded by $12.7 billion as of Dec. 31 -- with an $11.1 billion shortfall in its hourly pension fund and $1.7 billion in its salaried fund.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090219/AUTO01/902190374
We can elect Jens Stoltenberg, for president of the United States of America, in 2012!!!! :shades:
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Looks like good news for the UAW & GM
-Rocky
How did investing in Volvo, Saab, Fiat, Aston, and Jag etc, help compete against Honda, Nissan, Toyota, and Hundai? The only investments that have any sense have been Mazda, Opel, Daewoo, Holden, and Wuling in China. I don't know enough about Vauxhaul to determine if that was smart or not.
How did he do for Hillary???
GM must have deep pockets to hire an expensive lobbyist. Why not use the UAW lobbyist? Though Obama says no lobbyist allowed in His administration... Yeah right..
Only got her 18 million votes the most in primary history and if the DNC would of counted Florida and Michigan, well she would of been president!!!
GM must have deep pockets to hire an expensive lobbyist. Why not use the UAW lobbyist? Though Obama says no lobbyist allowed in His administration... Yeah right..
They can use the money they made in China.
-Rocky
Yep!!! It probably was a profitable dealer group I assume.
You should get a great buy on a used Denali.
I hope so...There is a couple of them out their that have caught my eye with less than 50K on them. I now just need to find another job because I think I can finally break even on the plum Impala, that my ex wife to be forged in my name. Hopefully next week Kelloggs will call me for a 2nd interview. I can only hope!!!
I should have never sold my 99 Suburban. I had it 7+ years with only 45k miles on it, when I sold it in Pristine condition.
If I had your money I would probably own a new 2009' Black GMC Sierra Denali or wait for the Turbocharged MKS. Lemko, what do you think of the UAW-Made Lincoln MKS???....
However gagrice, those old Chevy/GMC Trucks and SUV's were better made than the GMT-800's from 99/2000 on. However the GMT-900's seem to be holding up pretty well from what I've been told. I would love to own a Cadillac Escalade Platinum Edition the size of a Suburban for traveling. I just need to win the Mega-Millions, LOL :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
Life for me is like walking on a tight rope. The trick is a positive mental attitude, and don't look down. But I don't see a bankrupt, impoverished, crime-infested, ultra-violent, deindustrialized America of the near future. I think my kids will do well. New opportunities present themselves all the time, if you look for them.
Things change all the time, and have always changed throughout history. It has never been any other way, and thiings are changing now. Adaptation has always been the key. That's why we all need to arm ourselves with any and all tools available to us, like education.
Maybe try looking up more, and not down. It aint over until its over.....
It's good to hear you are happy with your life. Truly the ultimate measure of success is being happy. Money alone does not fulfill all people.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090220/NEWS07/90220015?GID=k8cwKL62LrMzmk8B9Wb3kH- LqzEgcApCtMm/P/7LeM70%3D
This is what UAW workers are going to be faced with if their insurance goes buh-bye!!!
-Rocky
The company has reduced the amount of money in the merit pool for 2009 in order to fund the plan. That means fewer raises and lower raises. BTW, professionals here have been all-merit for the past 25 years or so. No COLAs, step increases, raise for learning to tie your shoes, etc.
I'm curious. Was that really 99.6% funded (to the level needed to meet all of the plan's obligations), or was it only 99.6% funded to the minimum level required by the PBGC. I know my company tends to weasel -word things like that. You know, "The pension plan is fully funded to the minimum levels as required by law", that sort of thing.
-Rocky
I would agree with that save one thing. Go into court and try to represent yourself. I know it's not smart. Lawyers don't go to school for 6 years and have to pass a bar that seems to be nearly impossible to pass for nothing. I'm sure Bob has a wealth of knowledge and a personality to boot that is a boon in a court."
Well, shucks, thanks for the kind words...I am ALMOST speechless, but, rest assured, I will find SOMETHING to say...
I try and know my stuff, and my "wealth" of knowledge varies by the day...BUT, I am subject to market forces, that's for sure...
I have lost Bankruptcy clients who went to someone else who was $50 cheaper...they take 30 minutes of my time, they even TELL me that I was the most courteous attorney they had spoken to, and the most informative, and then go to the other guy to save 50 bucks...kinda like getting all your questions answered by the local Honda dealer (oops, this is the UAW topic), I mean, local Chevy dealer, and then go to the volume store for the better price... :confuse: :P
Also, even after quoting a fee, sometimes you find out that the entire fee was used up just conversing with the Client and drafting their pleadings (legal documents for court), but I still have the many hours of depositions, possible trial, and other matters that will not be compensated, simply because they could not afford the actual cost...
As rocky wants to know, am I worth what I am paid???...I hope so...the listed hourly rate never actually works out that way, simply because you just don't often get paid for everything you do...now, remember, I am a small law firm, no secretary or paralegal, just me...I answer the phone, do my own typing, show up in court, etc...the larger firms have secretaries who are paid to keep track of time to the minute...
I do NOT believe in nickel-and-diming clients, either...unless postage goes over $5.00 (Fedex comes to mind) I do not charge for postage or photocopies (most charge 25-50 cents per copy, I charge zero, unless we make over 100 copies or some other ridiculous amount)...I also do not charge for telephone calls of a few minutes...most attorneys, if you call them just to ask the time, and they answer, "12:00 noon...goodbye", they will charge for 1/10 hour...I will not do that, as I feel that tiny amounts like that only irritate the client...now, 15 minutes or more, charges will ensue...after all, if you don't charge at all, they will keep you on the phone for an hour, talking about whether the Braves will make it to the Super Bowl, and I truly don't have the time for childish things like sports (OTOH, if I was a sports lawyer, I WOULD have the time for childish things like sports...:):):)...)
So, that's me...don't think I don't compete, because in my field, the competition is stiff for bankruptcy work...but, since the client has the choice, I must deal with it...whereas the UAW thinks they have a Divine Right to a minimum salary for work that an illiterate illegal imiigrant could be trained to do in about an hour...
To train a lawyer would take at least a full day, even in Daylight Saving Time...:):):)
Well, we can agree on one thing...altho I can't stand the idea of national healthcare, I can absolutely agree that anyone on welfare who has a child must be sterilized during birth so they are incapable of adding more load to the taxpayer...
And to think they wanted Medicaid to cover Viagra...the best thing to happen to this country would be for every male welfare recipient to suffer lifetime impotence, since they usually stay on welfare for their lifetime...sheesh, what idiot comes up with those ideas anyway???
Seriously, I'm certainly not taking up for the UAW but do any of you really want to retire at $36,000/yr and still pay for your health care. Hopefully if that is anyone's pension amount I hiope they are getting SS or a payout of a 401K.
That's a pretty bleak picture you're painting. Sounds like your glass is half empty.
Then again, I would have a depressed outlook too if I was driving around in a 1988 Park Ave;)
I love my 1988 Buick Park Avenue! Nothing depressing about it whatsoever! Oh, and I immensely enjoy bringing out either the DTS or the Brougham on a nice sunny day!
Hi. I never really left - just lurking in the background.
The new job is going well. I'm with the IBEW and starting to build up a new pension. Hopefully there will be no layoffs in the defense industry. The new president is from the same state that my company's headquarters is in so maybe some more contracts will get thrown our way now. A certain defense contractor down in Texas had been getting the majority of the defense business for a long time although I'm sure that didn't have anything to do with where they're located.
Anyway, the last of the UAW holdouts from Chrysler here in St. Louis are nervous about whether the restructuring plan will put and end to the only remaining production shift left that builds the Ram truck. The two minivan shifts are gone, the plant is closed and the truck 2nd shift was laid off last fall.
Some analysts say that they might keep the plant open just to say that the truck is still built in the USA (there's a similar plant in Mexico). Many of us are wondering why they didn't consider that when they closed the only USA Chrysler minivan plant and moved it all to Canada.
Looking back I'm glad I took the buyout money and ran although if GM is giving $3k/mo for a pension the UAW negotiating team at Chrysler needs to talk to some people.
No, we all know it's all GWB and the Republican's fault.
Remember the party in charge will probably never go to war short of anything like a nuclear attack.
Besides, when we turn into a Socialist country weapons of war lose their priority. What was it I saw for sale a few years back?
For sale: French Army Rifle. Never fired and olny dropped once
How about we give the overt politics a rest for a few more months?
UAW Reaches Preliminary Agreement With Big Three (WKZO)
Working for Boeing in St. Louis, right
I'm not sure about the no layoffs in the defense industry thing, though. Defense has been doing pretty well the past 8+ years. Some pullback in defense spending, given the new administration and the general state of the economy, is probably coming your/our way. A couple of high-cost programs such as the F-22 always seem to be one committee vote away from cancellation.
The credit card apps have been replaced with car warranty companies selling their faux warranty programs trying to disguise themselves as being related to the manufacturers. They send envelopes, they advertise on TV and they call trying to sell their crap.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
NUMMI workers told to take unpaid furloughs (Mercury News)
"Union workers at Fremont's car-and-truck factory might be facing the first layoffs in the 25-year history of the plant unless they agree to take off one unpaid day every week."
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I did do that one day when I was bored and got a tele-marketer on the phone, I think it was AT&T, asked all kinds of stupid question, repeating them over and over but using different words. I really couldn't believe they hung on as long as they did. But she finally did hang up when I start telling her she had a sexy voice, LOL.
A friend at work tells me she puts in a porn DVD, turns up the volume on the TV, and sets the phone down near it when she gets a tele-marketing call. And no, I didn't ask her about the porn DVD.
Then why is GM such a big loser. They have at least twice as many UAW workers as they need to get the job done.
We Seattle-area Boeing workers would chat each other up when stressful layoff periods would breeze in. For Boeing it goes in cycles. The SPEEA union members were always angry about something. Phil Condit's(another CEO from Boeing that is long gone now) having an affair at work, Harry Stonecipher(he's the CEO from McDonnell-Douglas that Boeing acquired who became a co-CEO with Condit for the bigger, better Boeing Co.)when we "merged" with McDouggies, that man basically ruled with an iron fist) is doing this or doing that to anger the union throngs. The liberal Seattle-area union workers really got their panties in a bunch over Stonecipher, because Harry was da man, da Boss-man, what Harry said goes. The two of them fell off of face with everyone else and were let go. I think Stonecipher actually retired, beleaugered from dealing with an obstinate union, SPEEA, that demanded a lot but really gave very little. Condit was fired, in bitter disgrace. Alan Mullaly was hired as CEO after these two were fried wither and tither by the tough Seattle-area working throngs.
But really, you pro-union guys, Boeing's white-collar union, SPEEA, was a big money-dragging scheme. When you take our dues times the number of Engineers/Tech.'s, these unionites in control really made a umm...killing.
Don't expect them to be able to do squat if you get the dreaded Boeing's pink slip.
Just don't even think of withholding your dues, either. Won't work. Like I've said on here about 5 times now, the Company's first offer was worth more in pay and benefits than the one the stupid SPEEA members struck the Company 40 days for in early 2000! That was and still is the longest white-collar strike in history. What a joke. They're badgered theirselves into accepting the worst offer, then made it sound to everyone everywhere that they had earned some kind of "moral" victory. What a bunch of dopes. Really they were. I have a few people I still communicate with from Boeing's. The rest couldn't see past their own nose to spite their over-sized view of theirselves. At Boeing, a good, hardworking gentlemen is an "enemy". Better take care of him. Lay him off. Boeing's answer for everything. Goofiest company I have ever worked for, and I worked 20 years for them. Worked well. Worked smart. Solved drawing problems. Got laid off for my concern.
Unions may have been useful in the 20's or 30's or 40's. Since WWII they haven't been necessary. As Boeing has to keep telling the airlines, keep waiting patiently for your Dreamliners, our union-led engineers, mechanics, illustrators and so on, are more than happy to work slowly, eat lots of gloppy raspbery donuts and Starbuck's and talk about their beloved Mariners. Let's just let a real team from a real sport, NBA basketball, dangle on the vine. But mention the Mariners and they all get a titter and a glow about them.
Sheesh, I am so glad I'm out of there. If Boeing just fell off of the Mukilteo bluffs in to the Puget Sound I would find it difficult to bat an eyelash of grief.
Let those know-it-all managers of any and all levels battle hand-to-hand with the octpii at the bottom of the dark saltwaters of Puget Sound. Look out, we'll...lay off all of you bad octupii!
Good riddance. I'm pickin' up the strongest vibes that GM is going in to bankruptcy. It's a shame the dumb UAW's union didn't think about how much they were dragging the company in to the ground...striking when things were not very...umm...profitable. Real smart. :sick:
Healthcare and dental work is too expensive, I agree. Even as an Allied Healthcare worker I would have to agree. The drug companies just make things worse by way over-charging for their wares...wares that take thousands of overpaid employees punching either a '0' or a '1' over and over and over and over again, until the magic "click" of the newly found drug of America's choice is hatched, so to speak.
And doctors run tests that aren't really needed. As a Certified Respiratory Therapy Technician I just follow doctor's orders. Oh, we suggest treatment plans of attack to the doctors and make a tad bit of our own decisions, in the pt.'s best interests, sure we do. But doctors run up the services sometimes. And to add to the expense, patients come in thinking they're having the "big one", the end-all heart attack, when all they've done is eat too many burrito's, refrito's, chilito's and what-have-you, and are suffering a nasty gas attack is all. I'm serious, the waste list just goes on and on. We are not a perfect people, are we?
Do people need good wages to survive on? Of course they do. But you don't just strike a company just because you get the testosterone-fueled fury of a big group of morons chipping at your butt encouraging you to "have" to strike. How about thinking about the negative impact of a strike? Ever thought of that? Maybe what you make Mr.Autoworker, isn't top story for all of us. Maybe your strike might just cause some money problems down the furry road for your employer, eh? That's where I disagree with unions. I want to think on my own, not be snorkled and hog-tied by a bunch of dorky morons that are just thinking about the next oversized pick-em-up truck they need. Think for a sec.
What you do now affects what happens to you 5 years down the road.
Anyone heard of any mudslide forecasts for the area about 25-30 miles north-northwest of Seattle? Any Weather Channel experts on here? Oh, that would really be a shame, wouldn't it? Your head popped open by the suctions of an octopus. Ewww. :sick:
Oh, and watch for yet another Dreamliner delay announcement in the next coupla weeks, too
Should we lay them off, too? That's their answer for everything. Morons.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Is there a choice? our Off Topic Chatter threads are mostly deleted :sick:
The question here will the UAW workers ratify the agreement? I say they will as it mostly affects the retirees that don't get to vote.
The UAW retirees may not get to vote on the ratification but they can sue. There's plenty of other cases where they did just that - here's one:
Retirees Sue Ford, UAW over Health Care
>I'm not sure what brands you are tal(k)ing about???
Toyota -> Lexus
Honda -> Acura
Nissan -> Infinity
All of these brands use the same platforms on their low end and high end offerings. But the differentiating factor between them is the luxuries and amenities offered on the premium brand, not the lack of basic necessities on lower end offerings.
>1. producing better quality products and
>That's a matter of a personal opinion
Since when did quality become personal opinion? You know what I am talking about. I'd appreciate if you come out of denial.
>2. year after year offering better products for marginal increase in cost?
>Thanks to currency manipulation!!!
Agreed that currency manipulation plays its part in this scenario. However, who is encouraging this? The US business, govenrnment and lobbyists who want to provide an improved EPS to the shareholders, who are in most cases residents of USA.
>They are coming to Michigan, looking for workers but I refuse to be miserable and move to North Dakota!!! I would hate it there with a passion!!!!
Of course you have to move where the jobs are. If I was in your shoes, I would still be living in a village in India running my family owned convenience store, and then btching about life.
In US itself I have moved from NY to NJ to TX. Follow the money trail.
2. Dollar is low. GM: Our competitors set prices that are too low and we can't compete. We are losing money. Do something!
Now seriously. I'm sick and tired of those excuses of currency manipulation as main reason of D3 being in the dump. Anybody with any knowledge from economics knows that yes, it happens and no, it usually doesn't help as intended. Every time a government tries to intervene with tariffs, currency or subsidies, results are usually the same: short term boosts, long term suffering, lack of innovation, consummer decline. Usually people who are supposed to be protected by those policies suffer the most.
Rocky, Dallas Dude et al. can scream all day long (and Rocky literally does with his overuse of exclamation signs - seriously dude, can't you speak like a normal person? Using "!!!!!!" won't make it any more true or any more powerful - really) about all those evil forces that conspired to D3 decline. It won't mask the truth that D3 is where it is because decades of inferior product, too high costs and same decades of denials. The product got better (wow - now they say it might just be "as good" - whooheaw!), but the cost issue still persists and seems to have no end. Now GM wants 2 billion every month for next year or more. What a joke.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I saw an analyst on TV yesterday, obviously in favor of right-to-work states, showing the job growth over the last 5 (10?) years, comparing union to right to work states...RTW sates showed a much higher growth rate, overall, and it is obvious to ANYONE but a union member...American workers can make a good product, but companies are working hard to avoid any semblance of a union...
Anyone outside a union, just like anyone outside of a urban gang, can see why unions are the death knell for employment...unions do NOT see themselves as militant, greedy, or consumed by the welfare entitlement attitude, anymore than a gang does not see itself as violent, even tho any fool can see that it is...
The Obama admin wants to make unions MANDATORY in all 50 states, taking away the right of the state to control it own laws...how arrogant of the Democrats (now you WILL start to see the difference between Repubs and Democrats, and it won't be pretty) and I want to see how the Southern states respond to it...
Unions are dinosaurs, esp the UAW, since they will soon realize that floor sweeping is not worth $35/hour in anybody's factory, including theirs...how can they be so stupid...
When GM was the dominant force, they could get away with anything, and the junk they sold us proves it...now, GM is just another player, and they will not sell us junk, as we have more alternatives than we have choices of breakfast cereal...and thank God for that, or the junk of the 70s would be called "state of the art" today, if not for Hon,Toy and Nissan...
Guess them Toyota Corolla's ain't selling too well.
Presidential candidates Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain backed the loans after it became clear the automotive-centric states of Michigan and Ohio would be key in swinging the election. Earlier, McCain opposed the loans, and they were not even a blip on the Obama campaign's radar.
In other parts of the world, governments routinely help their domestic auto industries with tax breaks, reimbursement for research and development, worker training funds and — perhaps most significantly — state-sponsored health care.
“It would be hard to find a country that has less of a broad infrastructure to support the auto industry than the U.S.,” says manufacturing expert Harley Shaiken, a professor at the University of California-Berkeley.
“Certainly Germany and Japan do,” Shaiken tells Ward's. “Beyond that, I think there is a broader understanding of the importance of a manufacturing base to the health of an economy.”
In the U.S., perhaps no other country has drawn more scrutiny about government support for its auto industry than Japan
This year, Jim Press, a former senior executive with Toyota and now vice chairman at Chrysler LLC, told BusinessWeek the Japanese government funded development of the Prius hybrid-electric drivetrain. Toyota insists it developed the Prius on its own.
Or is it the Pontiac Vibe? It will be a chance for Toyota to rid themselves of the UAW leeches in a failed experiment. I am surprised that CA has not taxed them out of the state already. I am surprised you are gloating over the only Toyota UAW workers losing jobs. I thought you were all brothers. I guess only when the UAW built cars have D3 names on them.
That is what I heard also. That the Prius took $2 billion in R&D much of it supplied by the Japanese government. So how does that compare to the $13.4 we have flushed down the UAW GM toilet in the last 3 months? What do the US tax payers have to show for the money. Not even a car that will beat a Prius in Mileage. Sad waste of tax dollars.
To market analysts, Hastings appears more profitable today. But its value stems not from innovation but from breaking obligations to the company's employees and retirees. "We make the same products," Townsend said at the hearing, "in the same building, with the same equipment, for the same customers as we did before the asset sale."
And as if the plethora of these kind of stories are not bad enough, a tax loophole, one that both Democrats and Republicans alike appear loathe to do anything about, allows these fund managers to declare their profits from these takeovers as capital gains. This means their income is taxed at the 15% capital gains rate instead of the 35% rate appropriate for this kind of obsene economic gain. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you're paying more in taxes than a hedge fund manager who made a cool billion last year. Big name firms such as Cerberus Capital Management, The Carlysle Group, The Blackstone Group and Kohlberg, Kravis, Roberts (KKR) take advantage of this loophole with stunning success.
How's that for fair?
So what are the economic consequences of this kind of behavior for our nation? Well, it's that we start to resemble the very Developing World dictatorships we often sanctimoniously decry in the press. Here is a nice helping of this hypocrisy for you:
According to Executive Excess 2007, a study released in August by the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a Fair Economy, the 20 highest-paid fund managers made an average of $657.5 million last year--22,255 times the average annual U.S. salary of $29,500.
This is not only an immoral way to treat the middle class and working Americans on whose backs this country's economy was built. It also provides an atmosphere ripe for the kind of Abramoffian political corruption with which we have all sadly become accustomed over the past seven years. Furthermore, this increasing subjugation of everone except those at the very top of the income ladder is dangerous for a democracy, as any historian can tell you.
Which reminds me. Gordon Gekko had another piece of sage advice in the movie Wall Street. At one point in the film he turns to his new protege, stock broker Bud Fox, and offers this prescient observation with practiced nonchalance, "now you're not naïve enough to think that we're living in a democracy, are you, Buddy? It's the free market, and you're part of it."
Yes, indeed we are.
There's little in sight, and the result is a huge reserve army of unemployed or underemployed working people creating an inevitable race to the bottom in a corporatized marketplace. It harms workers everywhere, including in developed nations. They're outsourcing good jobs abroad to lower wage countries and pressuring workers to do more for less because they've got little bargaining power to fight back. More on this below.
Earlier in 2001 and new in office, Bush showed his anti-labor stripes straightaway. He invoked the Railway Labor Act blocking a threatened strike by 10,000 mechanics, cleaners and custodians at Northwest Airlines set for March 12. He acted again against United Airlines' 15,000 mechanics in December. He also took management's side in August, 2006 against Northwest's 8700 flight attendants' planned job action against the bankrupt airline's unfair demands for huge wage cuts and increases in hours worked. Bill Clinton was just as unfriendly invoking the Railway Labor Act against American Airline's pilots and to prevent railroad strikes 13 times.
George Bush supports corporate interests aiming to crush unions so they have free reign to treat workers any way they wish or go find other work. In the wake of 9/11, he took on public sector unions straightaway. He denied 170,000 new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) employees their civil service protection and right to bargain collectively. Those affected included Transportation Security Administration (TSA) newly federalized airport screeners. They lost their right to unionize in the name of national security that could as easily been for any reason or none at all. But this was just for starters. Bush also wants federal positions contracted out to private companies. That jeopardizes 850,000 federal employees likely to get lower pay, fewer benefits, loss of other unionized rights, and many of them ending up out of work.
Greater worker clout under unions is why management wants to destroy them. It's to deny working people their right to organize, earn more and get greater benefits corporations don't want to provide. It's happening in the gilded age of George Bush, and a recent example came in a ruling late last year when his administration's NLRB ruled 3-2 against registered nurses' right to union membership if they perform certain minimal supervisory duties.
It was in a case where United Auto Workers (UAW) were trying to organize nurses at a Taylor, Michigan-based hospital. US labor law doesn't guarantee supervisors the right to organize making the NLRB ruling hugely important for up to eight million workers in other trades. It may potentially deny their right henceforth to qualify for union representation if employers want to use this ruling to add enough supervisory responsibilities to employees' job descriptions to throw them into a union-exempt category.
Just the way Ronald Reagan busted PATCO, George Bush tipped his hand straightaway in office. He's a company man and union-hater, so henceforth it's been open season on workers and their rights under his administration. His policies range from:
-- a one-sided support for management;
-- stripping workers of their right to unionize;
-- cutting pay raises for 1.8 million federal workers on the pretext of a "national emergency;"
-- denying millions overtime pay;
-- appointing anti-union officials;
-- scheming to weaken (and then end) retirement security by replacing Social Security with risky private accounts managed by Wall Street sharks that so far has gotten nowhere because of public opposition to it;
-- weakening environmental regulations and protections; and more in an endless war on workers in service to corporate interests that elected and own him.
Bad example, DD. As you must know by now, the air traffic controllers' strike was clearly illegal. Air traffic controllers are Federal employees, & Federal employees have always been barred from striking. Every newly hired Federal employee learns this on his first day of employment. (I know this because I was once a Federal employee.)
If Reagan had not "busted" this strike, he would not have been doing his job.
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