If Reagan had not "busted" this strike, he would not have been doing his job.
Why does the govt have to intrude into the business of the ordinary folks? Is that not what Reagan wanted? A real Libertarian government would actually remove the government support that keeps the corporate system afloat, undermining it more than all the "Progressives" in the universe. -- total economic garbage! Trickle down Reagonomics never worked and we will go straight back to the 19th century workhouses.
Libertarianism HAS been tried -- and failed! It was called the gilded age of the 1890s when British workers worked 16 hour days 7 days a week and the ultra rich screamed that the nation would collapse if 7 year olds were taken out of the coal mines. Same story with the US sweatshops and sharecropping.
Salud Bob, that was an excellent post. You sound like a hard worker. I imagine in the end all that will matter is if you did right by your family, friends, and employer ( clients, in your case) for the money you earned.
>This year, Jim Press, a former senior executive with Toyota and now vice chairman at Chrysler LLC, told BusinessWeek the Japanese government funded development of the Prius hybrid-electric drivetrain. Toyota insists it developed the Prius on its own.
And if we totalled how much government support went into various parts of the foreign-based auto manufacturing through the decades when they were establishing their markets here, we'd be way above the dollars being lambasted as undeserved by the US brands now that they've been put in bad positions (by their help and UAW's help) by the lower price of the foreign products.
And that's exclusive of the value of the dumping techniques and the below value losses that represented a subsidy of the product.
Why does the govt have to intrude into the business of the ordinary folks? Is that not what Reagan wanted?
Air Traffic Controllers are not just ordinary folks. They are a high paid vital part of keeping the skies safe. I find your ultra pro unionism very disturbing. You would probably like to have the military in a Union. Some jobs go beyond personal freedoms. When you sign on to any job you sign to abide by the rules set at the start. All the Teamster contracts I was under had "No Strike" clauses in them. Guess what, I still had to pay 35 cents per hour into the strike fund. Not everything in life is fair. Unions are not anymore fair than management. Thankfully we have the freedom you seem to disdain, to go where we want and work what ever job fits our skills and training. If there are too many people trained in a particular field, that's life. I may have wanted to be a movie star, but no one hired me. That means all of the movie industry is corrupt by your logic.
One minute you are ranting that there is too much cheap labor in the workplace diluting Union wages. Next minute you are defending the illegal immigrants that flood in and take jobs at a lower wage. What difference is an illegal taking a job in the USA below minimum wage or someone in Mexico, China or India doing the same?
Yes, ladies and gentlemen, you're paying more in taxes than a hedge fund manager who made a cool billion last year.
How's that for fair?
Let me see, 15% of $1B (assuming they truly made $1B profit) is $150MM. I only paid $35K in fed taxes. Additionally all their employees paid taxes. All the people as suppliers and dependants paid taxes. That's sorta like what the stimulus is supposed to do.
On an individual level I totally don't understand why people think I should pay more taxes than another. I get no extra benefit than my neighbor. But that's OK I'll go along with that. But then the more I make the higher % I have to pay. Not only do I pay more I pay a higher %. I see now where the stimulus intent is to raise the max rate to 39.5% for people making over $250K/yr. I don't know how anyone can make this argument about individual tax rates with a straight face.
Clearly they are building cars no one wants to buy.
I think you have finally got the picture. GM and Chrysler are building vehicles very few people want. Even a UAW worker should understand when a companies percentage goes from over 50% to 20% they are doing something Wrong. GM down 49% in January 2009 Chrysler down 55% in January 2009
Guess what? UAW membership has fallen at about the same pace. Maybe something to think about.
You would probably like to have the military in a Union.
At the moment, we have our young men and women fighting side by side with paid for services professional soldiers getting $1000 or more a day. Certainly you should pay the going rate? All of those companies who sell their wares in the on going war effort are making a profit.
>They are a high paid vital part of keeping the skies safe. I find your ultra pro unionism very disturbing.
I'll bet a lot of high paid salaried folk from GM and Delphi in this area wish they could have been unionized, now that their healthcare and other benefits are being cut/eliminated. Are they at risk of having their retirement paychecks cut as well?
. All the Teamster contracts I was under had "No Strike" clauses in them.
No strike, no slow down, no walk our and the like are only good until the end of the contract. Once the contract expires, all bets are off. This very clause is what the company wants, an assured workforce.
The point is that they paid 15% of their income, whereas you paid 35%(?). That's not fair. Whether you make $1 or $1 billion, the tax rate should be the same.
One minute you are ranting that there is too much cheap labor in the workplace diluting Union wages. Next minute you are defending the illegal immigrants that flood in and take jobs at a lower wage. What difference is an illegal taking a job in the USA below minimum wage or someone in Mexico, China or India doing the same?
Thats the red herring in that conservatives want you to believe that illegals are taking your jobs, while they are exporting them overseas. Reminds me of Carolina getting BMW and Michelin to bring in several thousand jobs. While they have exported hundreds of thousands of jobs. Then they have less than 2% Hispanic population. Then the retarded governor has exhausted the states unemployment fund. Lets get serious and deal with the facts.
Another job that should NEVER be unionized is closer to Rocky's heart. I still cannot believe they turned the protection of our nuclear arsenal over to a bunch of civilians. I am sure that had to be a Republican privatizing our government. I would have shot those that went on strike at our Nuclear Weapons plant for TREASON.
More than 500 security guards at the nation's only nuclear weapons assembly plant walked off the job just after midnight yesterday to protest what they said is a steep deterioration in job and retirement security since the government changed fitness standards for weapons-plant guards in response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
The contractor at the plant, BWXT Pantex in Carson County, Tex., replaced the striking guards with a contingency force that it says will secure the plant's weapons, nuclear materials and explosives as long as necessary. The issue is not confined to Pantex because guard union leaders at other weapons plants also are raising concerns about the new security requirements, which they say will force many older guards out of their jobs.
I don't want some fat old porker, jelly donut eating Union nut protecting our Nuclear arsenal. I want well trained ready for combat soldiers. This is a big mistake giving the nuclear weapons protection to a "RENT A COP" company. I have no doubt Rocky was in good shape and able to do the job. There had to be people that were not that caused the strike. Some jobs require a certain level of physical condition. You would not send a guy in a wheelchair on a mission in the jungle. You can bet the Al-Qaeda terrorists that would try to penetrate any target are in top physical condition. Same should go for our people.
Thats the red herring in that conservatives want you to believe that illegals are taking your jobs
SO the meat packing plants in Iowa and Nebraska that had over 70% illegal workers was not taking jobs from US citizens? How about in Connecticut?
Last year, federal agents raided a factory in the old whaling town of New Bedford Massachusetts, arresting hundreds of illegal immigrants working in a textile factory.
Most were shackled and sent to a detention center in Texas,
OAKLAND, Calif. - U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents this morning arrested 13 foreign nationals who were working illegally at a Bay Area factory that makes packaging products for industry and agribusiness, including the U.S. military.
Seven of the 13 Eagle Bag employees taken into custody today used valid social security numbers belonging to others in order to obtain their jobs.
You would love to have it both ways protecting US jobs and allowing illegal workers to undercut UNION wages. As long as it is Not your beloved UAW wages.
BOSTON (Reuters) - Workers including 361 illegal immigrants were cheated of hundreds of thousands of dollars in overtime pay at a factory at the center of a high-profile raid in Massachusetts, according to a lawsuit filed on Tuesday.
You should post UAW organizers at the popular illegal border crossings with Union cards. Join the UAW and make the big bucks.
That [non-permissible content removed] had them get up at 5pm, punch out, then get another time card from a "different company", punch in, and go sit at the same postitions for 8 more hrs. at straight time. Something that, w or w/o a union is illegal.
And the kicker is, there was a federal employee ON SITE, inspecting the product (it was for military backpacks and such), and he did nothing about it.
The point is that they paid 15% of their income, whereas you paid 35%(?)
If I buy a piece of real estate or a business for $100k and sell it for $200k more than a year later, I pay long term capital gains on that profit. In California It is 15% to the Feds and about 9% to the State. That is different than income. If I sell in less than a year it is considered income and taxed at whatever rate I pay. That was just another anti-capitalist rant by DD1. What most of these gungho Union Dudes do not realize is without capital investment there would not be any taxes or Union jobs. No taxes no government. We are currently headed into just such chaos. A UAW membership without an employer seems worthless to me.
Most hedge funds cater to million dollar plus folks. Your way out of your league. One has to recall the Bear Sterns hedge fund who stopped redemptions as the beginning of the end. Then the board ignored the millionaires/shareholders at the quarterly meeting. Big mistake, you don't jack with connected people.
If you don't understand the progressive tax system. Its simple and factual that these trickle down folks on the top aren't doing the intended fueling of the economy as the father of deregulation (Reagan) stated. Hence, the gap between the well to do and middle America has become wider.
But we weren't talking about individual tax rates and even Warren Buffet knows and has stated that his employees are over taxed and he is under taxed. Certainly you can't argue the oracle of Omaha is wrong. He is the real thing and not some wanna bee billionaire.
You forgot about the ones Walmart locked in the stores at night? So its not bad enough that they ship jobs overseas, they are now hiring illegals. Then to top that off they want to get rid of our unions. Them greedy bastards!!!
That is absolutely illegal. Every place of employment is required by law to have a poster giving workers rights to wages, OT, breaks etc. I would bet the Federal employee was a Union person. He was probably in the break room all day eating jelly donuts and drinking coffee. Our Government is full of that kind of waste.
You have to admit that is a clever way of getting around the law with two separate companies in one location. With all the corporate corruption and Union corruption and government corruption it amazes me we are still surviving as a society. I always worked with people that could read English. I did not see any excuse for being abused, with all the safeguards. When people are not punished severely for hiring illegals and the government is so inept at spotting SS # fraud. You get the current mess we are in.
I would bet that well over a million illegals are working in Los Angeles. NYC, Chicago and Dallas right today. Those are jobs that US citizens could be doing. The question is how many are UNION jobs?
At the moment, we have our young men and women fighting side by side with paid for services professional soldiers getting $1000 or more a day. Certainly you should pay the going rate?
No we live in a global economy now and the going rate is much lower. What we should do is recruit 500,000 young Chinese men, pay them $20/day, and have them take over all security operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. China and India basically have an endless supply of people looking for a job and willing to work for wages like that.
Honestly, I don't care how many are or aren't. They should all be sent back where they came from, and the employers jailed. If the unions knowingly recruited them, JAIL THEM TOO. I'm not saying that we shouldn't do what we can do for other nations, but we have to take care of ourselves first. If we can't take care of ourselves, then how can we take care of other nations.
I think that's to lenient. I suggest more definite cleansing :sick: of the gene pool so that others are not tempted to try the same thing in a year or two.
If you don't understand the progressive tax system. Its simple and factual that these trickle down folks on the top aren't doing the intended fueling of the economy as the father of deregulation (Reagan) stated. Hence, the gap between the well to do and middle America has become wider.
That is total BS. The wealthy have always gotten off easy. They put their money in offshore accounts. Trusts that are fool proof, think Joe Kennedy. There is just more information now than ever before. You are trying to tell US that the working man is not better off today than 100 years ago. Creating jobs whether they are Union or non union is what made this country great. It also gave US the largest percentage in the middle. Those in the middle pay for the government. No Obama or anyone else is going to extract more from the rich. I think their own greed has done a pretty good job over the last year. We are just scratching the surface of con artists like Madoff that took advantage of people's greed. Trying to get something for nothing. Sound familiar. Think UAW Jobs bank.
Creating jobs whether they are Union or non union is what made this country great.
Some times I feel like I'm one of the few that gets that if the US had universal health care it make things more even.
Something that even fewer people seem to recognize: unions pull up wages at non-union companies. Seriously. If a company pay pay near-union wages and benefits, a lot of the employees will go "Hey, we got it pretty good, we don't need to unionize." The trouble (for the company) starts when they start to renege on that promise.
We could have had universal health care with the New Deal, but what became the Dixiecrats scuttled it because they couldn't stomach the idea of their loved ones lying in a hospital bed next to some black person.
The wealthy have always gotten off easy.
30 years of Reaganism has destroyed the country. It's eviscerated our industrial base, broken the social contract, crushed our unions, savaged our schools and infrastructure, and shifted the nation's wealth from the middle class to the upper 5%. Now that same multi-headed Hydra is devouring itself. Wages have stagnated, the dollar is nosediving, the banking system is paralyzed, and subprime poison is surging through the global system shuddering banks and businesses around the world. Is this the same “compassionate” Bush who deliberately withheld food, water and medical supplies from Katrina's disaster victims while they huddled in the stinking, feces-infested Superdome or clung to the roofs of their homes while rescue boats were turned away by FEMA goons?
The Bush administration's unprecedented cash giveaway (aka, the "stimulus package") will be accompanied by dollar-crushing rate cuts that will send gas and food prices to the moon. As the nation slides deeper and deeper into recession, it may be worth remembering that the present troubles began with Greenspan's "low interest" monetary policy and a corrupt-deregulated "structured investment" market that allowed chiseling bankers to sell the subprime loans of unemployed restaurant workers--with no collateral, no down payment, and bad credit---into the secondary market as though they were valuable assets. That Ponzi-scam is imploding, and it's now clear that we'll all be expected to pay the multi-trillion dollar losses.
The financial service industry is under the spotlight and has been so since August 2007 when the unfolding debacle of the Sub-Prime/Alternative-A derivative investments became the story on page one. TENs of BILLIONS of these have been written-off/ down worldwide with HUNDREDs of BILLIONS more to come. Such “investments” are literally popping up everywhere, but NOT necessarily where you might expect them to be! This current audit cycle will not only prove critical in identifying who is holding such dubious paper, but also what adjustments will be required to “fairly present” the financial statements (or statements of condition) of the entities under examination by the accounting profession.
While the public’s attention will focused on their banks and the timeliness of this year’s audit’s completion date as well as the nature of the independence accountants’ opinions – be they unqualified, qualified, adverse, or disclaimed; the real focus should be aimed at those audited financials and reports of investment bankers, mutual funds, hedge funds, money market funds, pension funds, municipalities, and insurance companies. While they may face concerns/issues regarding declines in local Real Estate values, and increased foreclosures; I foresee that the local/ regional community banks (who are locally owned and managed) and are not satellites of the national mega-money-center banks, will get thru their audits unscathed with flying colors. The proof behind my assertion will come in the next four months.
They should all be sent back where they came from, and the employers jailed. If the unions knowingly recruited them, JAIL THEM TOO
That is something that you, rocky and I are in agreement on. I have nothing against Latino workers. Most of my friends are Hispanic. Over half our church is Hispanic. Many came from Mexico the hard way, legally. They are not anymore thrilled with illegal immigrants than most US citizens. I do think they could make the system better. And should require learning the language as a condition of citizenship.
30 years of Reaganism has destroyed the country. It's eviscerated our industrial base, broken the social contract, crushed our unions, savaged our schools and infrastructure, and shifted the nation's wealth from the middle class to the upper 5%.
I do not understand how one person can be so wrong on so many levels. The migration of work from the highly unionized Midwest to the South started in a BIG way during the 1960s. In 1958 I got a portable radio made in Japan. Nothing made in the USA was even close. We have not done much mfg of electronic consumer equipment ever. We got out of the TV business while it was still all tube type with NO solid state.
“compassionate” Bush who deliberately withheld food, water and medical supplies from Katrina's
More bull malarkey. Where was Obama and FEMA when people were dying in the Biggest ice storm in recent history in KY? I think he said it all when he only cares about the Urban dwellers.
You put out more irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with the UAW screwing the D3. You never have even addressed the strikes by the UAW last year when GM was bleeding red ink. Because you know they were WRONG to do that.
Why does the govt have to intrude into the business of the ordinary folks? Is that not what Reagan wanted?
I'm afraid that I don't understand your point. These weren't "ordinary folks" - they were Federal employees who knowingly violated Federal statutes that explicitly prohibited them from striking. These laws were on the books long before Reagan became President. Although you might argue that firing the controllers was too harsh, you can't avoid the clear fact that this was an illegal strike, plain & simple, & that Reagan had to punish the strikers in some way.
What this has to do with libertarianism or child labor in 19th century British coal mines is beyond me. We're discussing an illegal strike by employees of the U.S. Department of Transportation in 1981.
that's the union mentality. It's all for us, none for them. Two for me, one for you. Three for us, one for them. The UAW is the epitome of that kind of thinking. I used to work at The Boeing Company in Everett, WA, and a lot of those co-workers(SPEEA and the International Aerospace Machinists)would rather dawdle around a burn barrel "protecting" a worker's rights than do the right thing.
Unionites were the types of kids who would just take a few of the neighbors apples and jump over the fence and run away. Tee-hee, now let's eat these apples. The Creator won't care, will he, my apple-stealing buddy? Hee-hee. Let's just strike the nation and let airplanes fly around freely, some of them might even be on autopilot. Hee-hhee. Who cares? We're neonites, heck, we're Unionites. We're ultra liberal and free.
What might that be, doing the right thing? How about thinking about what you're doing, not just your ever-expanding pocketbook? Sure you want all that, but is the Company willing to give you all that?
When Reagan canned those striking air traffic controllers he was doing what was right. Clinton would've had to do the same, as would have Barack.
they were Federal employees who knowingly violated Federal statutes that explicitly prohibited them from striking.
Going into negotiations the term "good faith effort" is one used. Did the govt go into a good faith effort? There are two sides to every story. As to the law/legal we now have ample evidence that the executive office deems itself above the law and makes the constitution (from which all laws must adhere to) rubbish. Then to forbid certain federal employees the right to organize, we see the trend.
What this has to do with libertarianism or child labor in 19th century British coal mines is beyond me.
This goes to the point of what govt role and or their lack of oversight (smaller govt) means in a society. We have tried it and we can now see that regulation is a good thing.
>Where was Obama and FEMA when people were dying in the Biggest ice storm in recent history in KY? I think he said it all when he only cares about the Urban dwellers.
Furthermore, after years of complaining the hurricane prone Gulf Coast city isn't getting extra money because, well just because they want it, during the previous hated president, the media and politicians have forgotten to complain that Katrina "victims" aren't getting an extra handout in the pork package being called stimulus. I wonder what the difference could be from then to now? It all changed Jan 20. :sick:
If the current guy screws the UAW out of something they feel they are entitled to, it will be okay because he's the guy they helped elect. It's interesting.
The Oklahoma terrorist case and Katrina case were not nearly as worthy of the 911 Towers govt hand out. So what explains this? This is also interesting. Does Ky not have a national gaurd? I didn't even hear a thing about this national disaster in KY.
By the way what constitutes a national disaster? When does the president declare a national disaster?
Back to GOOD FAITH NEGOTIATION. It one thing to work without a contract, as long as they are in negotiations, and another thing to say take it or leave it. You have to look up negotiations up in the dictionary. No one like another imposing their will on another. Unilateral things just don't work, just look at the method of imposing democracy on Iraq. If two parties or more sit down and discuss things, your apt to get better results.
Its silly to think that you will agree to buying a car and loan terms put in front of you by a dealership. Hence, you work out something you both can live with. No difference in negotiating your labor and working conditions. Its just that simple.
I do not understand how one person can be so wrong on so many levels
I prefer to refer to this group as the "Phantasmagorical Third" since I believe polling this group would find them all to be literal believers in a book of fantasy and magic (along with hatred and violence) called the bible. Nothing matters to them except their clear knowledge and close relationship to this fantasy. They recognize Dim Son as one of "them" and justify his actions as being directed by their god. No matter how stupid, how ignorant, "if god said then that's the way it is!"
These are the same people who, when asked if Iraq (Saddam) had anything to do with 911, will emphatically state that Saddam and Osama were DEFINITELY working together, and that Iraq was exactly whom we should have attacked - and nothing will ever change their opinion. Where'd they get this opinion? - many simply answer that their preacher told them - so -it HAS to be true!
This scares the crap out of me as the only solution I can possibly fathom would be a worldwide deprogramming project starting with classes in logic and physics taught in the elementary schools across the planet.
In the interim I simply try to plant questions in their feeble little minds - unfortunately these questions require some thought and many of the repugnicans I encounter are incapable of thinking for themselves.
You never have even addressed the strikes by the UAW last year when GM was bleeding red ink.
They vote to strike and its not your and or my business as non members. Its their right. No one tells Rush to work for $10 an hour (much more than he is worth), he has his rights.
my point in this is the political machinations going on and how that's going to affect the outcome of the predicament of the Big2.5 who have overspent themselves and have been affected by allowing foreign companies to come in to compete with a different set of rules at first. I don't discuss religion or lack thereof.
I'm not sure the country can afford to spend all this stupid stuff on the pork bill being called stimulus AND then complain about spending a small fraction to help the jobs at the US automakers survive. Somehow this seems a lot more important Pelosi's favorite mouse for $30 M and for aid to the cities through the new Office of Urban Affairs. The cities usually didn't maintain their infrastructure but wasted loads of money on pet projects and on unionized workers who didn't have to work because they were of the right party (Dayton, OH). Currently the city wants the urban money (mayor was at the White House this week) but they are wanting to spend on a garden on the roof of the city building and wanting to spend for developing a Tech Town and something about the green garden areas there as well in a blighted area. I assume a relative or friend of city management has the business for the green garden stuff--just a guess on my part after a few decades of watching how these things work.
This is relevant to the UAW because in 3 decades we've lost a boatload of UAW jobs at Delphi (nee Delco) plants and GM assembly plants along with a Chrysler auto AC units plant. Spending for GM bailout won't help us directly much, other than we have plants that are suppliers to the auto industry; some have closed already with the slowdown and then closing of the Moraine truck plant.But I still support it. Our area is included by some in the "you get what you deserve for having UAW workers in your area" category.
So help GM survive and help UAW workers have a future in retirement, but not necessarily at the overpaid level for current work.
It so easy to blame the unions, but have you looked lately at Citigroup and Bank of America, the two largest banks in the US, they are going into receivership. They do not have unions, but they have greedy bankers who gambled with peoples money and now the country is going down because of it. Who is blaming them?? I think the Unions did a lot more good for the people. Now what I would like to see is the US government to step in and force those bankers to return their huge undeserved bonuses just like the Swiss government did to UBS bank. Who cares if the executives leave if they don't get their bonus, where are they going to go? To China or Europe where they will make only a tenth of what they scammed from us, this is poetic justice.
maybe there might have been a baby on one of those endangered flights. A baby belonging to a UAW family.
Enough of the drama. Ground the plane just like they ground the space shuttle. As soon as the contract is settled then everything is back to normal.
We have to think outside the box of our own desires and wants.
Those are the very same words used to get the LEAN thinking folks to buy in. However, they don't mention the "jobs for life" and or "executive compensation in Japan". Only the ideas that appeal to them. You have no idea what greed is. The average UAW worker is far from the wholesale orgy the banking system has engaged in. It pathetic that the main stream media, which is owned by big business, has you chasing your tail. A middle class life style is a good thing for America. To bail out the greedy bastards who claim to be the best and brightest is beyond ignorance. Its stupid to put it mildly. Where is their burden? Only in America is failure rewarded. Their failure is the reason all others will be in dire straits if not fail all together.
Well, I'm glad to see that the corporatocracy has accomplished one goal -- getting working people to blame other working people for the mess.
So, you're suggesting we should take benefits away from people who have them just because you don't. Yeah -- that will make everyone feel better.
Why the anti-union rant? Employees who belong to a union make up about what, 10% of the entire labour force or so? The "war" is long over and the anti-union forces have won. In 6 months you learned everything there is to know? Is it any wonder the powerful and privileged classes have won the mother of all financial battles.....too many of us are just to unknowing, uncaring, uninformed and totally oblivious to the real state of what passes for the economic structure of our society.
Because the American Middle Class has to be the stupidest species of animal on the face of the Earth. How else to explain a group of people who, when they vote at all, consistently vote against their own best interests. We've got mom and pop business owners who obviously believe they are going to accumulate wealth like the corporate big boys do and therefore, they don't wanna pay no stinkin' taxes. It doesn't matter if National Healtcare would alleviate them of a big expense of running their business - no sir! They're gonna be captains of industry one day, and the wanna be able to pass that on to their worthless kids without any Communist "death tax" to worry about. It's pathetic; the typical Middle Class American actually belives this. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
Nah, the European middle class is the stupidest species on Earth. Americans have to be second place once again :P
BTW your interpretation of the dreamed libertarian labor climate is correct. Sweatshops and a two tiered society where corporations control every aspect of life. Von Mises would be proud.
OK, I used to belong to a Union, the Seattle Professional Engineering Employees Association. I can't say as I benefited by belonging, but I did. And I paid my dues.
But that's not the deal we're discussing here. Boeing is full of big boys believers in themselves, they can always get another Technical Illustrator off the street, so they let you get your pay up (yes, SPEEA membership surely helped me earn more pay than if not belonging to a union, with a huge Company like Boeing, it probably helps to be in the union, eh?) then they lay your butt off. But know the following.
I should be getting across to anyone reading this thread that I am kind of bitter about companies in corporate America like Boeing. So perhaps you and I are not really that far off in our belief systems, sans religion. And we won't go down that road any more, this topic is about the UAW's.
Union membership wasn't that bad, actually. I will get a nice pension for my 20 years at The Boeing Company, but certainly no healthcare insurance paid by Boeing. Wouldn't expect them to pony up for that. Who knows about when I retire from the Allied Healthcare industry. I sincerely doubt my rural hospital employer will pay my wife and I healthcare insurance benefits after retirement. We turn a profit, but not that big of a profit.
I can understand that you and rockylee are for the working class citizen, he/she does need a helping hand nowadays.
Some skillsets don't require a union, or, if the people of a company are being properly rewarded and compensated for their work, and there are at least some benefits to be had, why would there be a need for a union? What need is there for representation..if you're being treated decently.
So I can understand if you're not being decently treated, you might want to unionize. Lord knows the slaves from the South could have used some Unionization, for sure, for sure. And I don't mean any disrespect regarding that horrible time in human history. There's a need to help a huge cause.
I think what has chapped some hides of readers in this thread, though, is things like the UAW striking GM, Ford or Chrysler when the Companies were not making enough money to pay all of their bills on. Additionally things like the Jobs Bank strike people as being kind of luxurious, too. And not conceding when Big Boy GM is being flushed down the potter maketh no sense at alleth. Really.
Indeed, at Boeing the union newsletters would always say how much Boeing had in it's coffers, and our strike in early 2000 was against a cash-rich Boeing Company. There's the difference, some common sense should be sprinkled upon that desire of the large groups, to sort of quell the "mob mentality" aspect of being in a union.
I think what has chapped some hides of readers in this thread, though, is things like the UAW striking GM, Ford or Chrysler when the Companies were not making enough money to pay all of their bills on. Additionally things like the Jobs Bank strike people as being kind of luxurious, too. And not conceding when Big Boy GM is being flushed down the potter maketh no sense at alleth. Really.
Exactly! However, I DO fault the big-wigs like Waggoner who took his $17million when the company was losing millions in '07.
Greed is greed whether it be from Madoff, the B. of A, Enron, AIG, Tyco. or Citi-corp execs or the UAW.
They vote to strike and its not your and or my business as non members. Its their right.
You are absolutely correct. And then when they run the company into bankruptcy and beg for myself and the other taxpayers to bail them out, it is my right to bad mouth their ignorant actions. The UAW and totally inept management has run GM into the toilet. I say flush it and don't waste any more money on them. Socialized Health care would make little or no difference. Which will not be free for those that have a job. Instead of the company paying the individual will get to pay. Probably more per month than the company currently pays. Remember the campaign. You don't pay your Universal Health Care premium we will just garnish your wages. The middle class will pay as they ALWAYS have. The wealthy will get off with the same as they ALWAYS have. And you the upper middle class will pay more of the cost for the expanded services provided the NON producing part of our society. Welcome to the World YOU voted for.
They seek special treatment as a special interest. Be it by limiting the medical school enrollment or tort reform.
Well, there's not been much tort reform because the trial lawyers control our state and federal legislature. The medical schools around me are growing in their enrollments and even adding new med. schools.
Please don't equate a professional like a physician to a UAW worker to make your biased point. It's not even an apples to oranges comparison. It's more like apples to cement.
Here is an example of a skill set you can probably identify with or at least vote in favor.
Jesse Jackson's Newest Staff Member Mel Reynolds Jesse Jackson has added former Chicago Democrat Congressman Mel Reynolds to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree. Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud, and lies to the Federal ElectionCommission. He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate...won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate...then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate! His new job? Ready for this?? *****YOUTH COUNSELOR****** IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
That is the mentality now running this country. A utopia you and the UAW have always dreamed about. I think you need to sign ACORN and Rainbow up in the UAW.
Where did you find that tidbit? That's priceless. But typical I'm afraid. There business built around Jackson and Sharpton's type of industry is sad. Look at the Burris mess. I didn't like his body language when he was being introduced as the 2nd Savior before being appointed. I was right.
I was attempting to strike a common cause with our Texas guy and apparently I just hit a nerve.
dallas, your argument against me is that I chose the wrong industry, you're barking up a tree that is going to come thundering down and land right on top of the Cadillac CTS you cherish so much.
Since when is it wrong for a breadwinner like myself to pick an industry in America to train in and then do it. And occasionally give my story in here as an option for some of the UAW who might humbly listen? I say it because money can be made.
I agree, medical care costs too much. Some doctors are too greedy, some are not. Some are ethical, some are not. And the drug companies are charging way too much to the people F&DA being in bed with them to maximize profits. Basically robbing the people.
Hey, dallas, I agree about the costs. But I am not the one to tell your agonies to, I am another middle class taxpayer who was booted out the door at a big boy planemaker that is either hideously conservative or stupid, or a chafing combination of both.
I have little use for Unions like the AMA, Bar and NEA. DD is way out in left field with his hatred of Doctors and the AMA. Must have flunked out of Pre Med is all I can figure. Comparing the time and expense to get a medical degree and being born into the UAW family is really the pot calling the kettle black. Even if I was born with the desire for college and the money, it would not have been Medical School. I think Drs as a whole more than earn their pay. Most die at a young age and get little time with family to enjoy the money they do earn. Getting a UAW job is like instant wealth and upper middle class status. Well it used to mean that. Now it is just another job with average pay for below average skill requirements.
Comments
Why does the govt have to intrude into the business of the ordinary folks? Is that not what Reagan wanted? A real Libertarian government would actually remove the government support that keeps the corporate system afloat, undermining it more than all the "Progressives" in the universe. -- total economic garbage! Trickle down Reagonomics never worked and we will go straight back to the 19th century workhouses.
Libertarianism HAS been tried -- and failed! It was called the gilded age of the 1890s when British workers worked 16 hour days 7 days a week and the ultra rich screamed that the nation would collapse if 7 year olds were taken out of the coal mines. Same story with the US sweatshops and sharecropping.
Its called not taking off, the skies are never safer, than when all the planes/jets are on the ground.
And if we totalled how much government support went into various parts of the foreign-based auto manufacturing through the decades when they were establishing their markets here, we'd be way above the dollars being lambasted as undeserved by the US brands now that they've been put in bad positions (by their help and UAW's help) by the lower price of the foreign products.
And that's exclusive of the value of the dumping techniques and the below value losses that represented a subsidy of the product.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-nLS6FJtSM
Air Traffic Controllers are not just ordinary folks. They are a high paid vital part of keeping the skies safe. I find your ultra pro unionism very disturbing. You would probably like to have the military in a Union. Some jobs go beyond personal freedoms. When you sign on to any job you sign to abide by the rules set at the start. All the Teamster contracts I was under had "No Strike" clauses in them. Guess what, I still had to pay 35 cents per hour into the strike fund. Not everything in life is fair. Unions are not anymore fair than management. Thankfully we have the freedom you seem to disdain, to go where we want and work what ever job fits our skills and training. If there are too many people trained in a particular field, that's life. I may have wanted to be a movie star, but no one hired me. That means all of the movie industry is corrupt by your logic.
One minute you are ranting that there is too much cheap labor in the workplace diluting Union wages. Next minute you are defending the illegal immigrants that flood in and take jobs at a lower wage. What difference is an illegal taking a job in the USA below minimum wage or someone in Mexico, China or India doing the same?
How's that for fair?
Let me see, 15% of $1B (assuming they truly made $1B profit) is $150MM. I only paid $35K in fed taxes. Additionally all their employees paid taxes. All the people as suppliers and dependants paid taxes. That's sorta like what the stimulus is supposed to do.
On an individual level I totally don't understand why people think I should pay more taxes than another. I get no extra benefit than my neighbor. But that's OK I'll go along with that. But then the more I make the higher % I have to pay. Not only do I pay more I pay a higher %. I see now where the stimulus intent is to raise the max rate to 39.5% for people making over $250K/yr. I don't know how anyone can make this argument about individual tax rates with a straight face.
I think you have finally got the picture. GM and Chrysler are building vehicles very few people want. Even a UAW worker should understand when a companies percentage goes from over 50% to 20% they are doing something Wrong.
GM down 49% in January 2009
Chrysler down 55% in January 2009
Guess what? UAW membership has fallen at about the same pace. Maybe something to think about.
At the moment, we have our young men and women fighting side by side with paid for services professional soldiers getting $1000 or more a day. Certainly you should pay the going rate? All of those companies who sell their wares in the on going war effort are making a profit.
I'll bet a lot of high paid salaried folk from GM and Delphi in this area wish they could have been unionized, now that their healthcare and other benefits are being cut/eliminated. Are they at risk of having their retirement paychecks cut as well?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
No strike, no slow down, no walk our and the like are only good until the end of the contract. Once the contract expires, all bets are off. This very clause is what the company wants, an assured workforce.
Thats the red herring in that conservatives want you to believe that illegals are taking your jobs, while they are exporting them overseas. Reminds me of Carolina getting BMW and Michelin to bring in several thousand jobs. While they have exported hundreds of thousands of jobs. Then they have less than 2% Hispanic population. Then the retarded governor has exhausted the states unemployment fund. Lets get serious and deal with the facts.
More than 500 security guards at the nation's only nuclear weapons assembly plant walked off the job just after midnight yesterday to protest what they said is a steep deterioration in job and retirement security since the government changed fitness standards for weapons-plant guards in response to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
The contractor at the plant, BWXT Pantex in Carson County, Tex., replaced the striking guards with a contingency force that it says will secure the plant's weapons, nuclear materials and explosives as long as necessary. The issue is not confined to Pantex because guard union leaders at other weapons plants also are raising concerns about the new security requirements, which they say will force many older guards out of their jobs.
I don't want some fat old porker, jelly donut eating Union nut protecting our Nuclear arsenal. I want well trained ready for combat soldiers. This is a big mistake giving the nuclear weapons protection to a "RENT A COP" company. I have no doubt Rocky was in good shape and able to do the job. There had to be people that were not that caused the strike. Some jobs require a certain level of physical condition. You would not send a guy in a wheelchair on a mission in the jungle. You can bet the Al-Qaeda terrorists that would try to penetrate any target are in top physical condition. Same should go for our people.
SO the meat packing plants in Iowa and Nebraska that had over 70% illegal workers was not taking jobs from US citizens? How about in Connecticut?
Last year, federal agents raided a factory in the old whaling town of New Bedford Massachusetts, arresting hundreds of illegal immigrants working in a textile factory.
Most were shackled and sent to a detention center in Texas,
OAKLAND, Calif. - U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents this morning arrested 13 foreign nationals who were working illegally at a Bay Area factory that makes packaging products for industry and agribusiness, including the U.S. military.
Seven of the 13 Eagle Bag employees taken into custody today used valid social security numbers belonging to others in order to obtain their jobs.
You would love to have it both ways protecting US jobs and allowing illegal workers to undercut UNION wages. As long as it is Not your beloved UAW wages.
BOSTON (Reuters) - Workers including 361 illegal immigrants were cheated of hundreds of thousands of dollars in overtime pay at a factory at the center of a high-profile raid in Massachusetts, according to a lawsuit filed on Tuesday.
You should post UAW organizers at the popular illegal border crossings with Union cards. Join the UAW and make the big bucks.
And the kicker is, there was a federal employee ON SITE, inspecting the product (it was for military backpacks and such), and he did nothing about it.
If I buy a piece of real estate or a business for $100k and sell it for $200k more than a year later, I pay long term capital gains on that profit. In California It is 15% to the Feds and about 9% to the State. That is different than income. If I sell in less than a year it is considered income and taxed at whatever rate I pay. That was just another anti-capitalist rant by DD1. What most of these gungho Union Dudes do not realize is without capital investment there would not be any taxes or Union jobs. No taxes no government. We are currently headed into just such chaos. A UAW membership without an employer seems worthless to me.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/10/business/hedge.php?page=1
Most hedge funds cater to million dollar plus folks. Your way out of your league. One has to recall the Bear Sterns hedge fund who stopped redemptions as the beginning of the end. Then the board ignored the millionaires/shareholders at the quarterly meeting. Big mistake, you don't jack with connected people.
If you don't understand the progressive tax system. Its simple and factual that these trickle down folks on the top aren't doing the intended fueling of the economy as the father of deregulation (Reagan) stated. Hence, the gap between the well to do and middle America has become wider.
But we weren't talking about individual tax rates and even Warren Buffet knows and has stated that his employees are over taxed and he is under taxed. Certainly you can't argue the oracle of Omaha is wrong. He is the real thing and not some wanna bee billionaire.
That is absolutely illegal. Every place of employment is required by law to have a poster giving workers rights to wages, OT, breaks etc. I would bet the Federal employee was a Union person. He was probably in the break room all day eating jelly donuts and drinking coffee. Our Government is full of that kind of waste.
You have to admit that is a clever way of getting around the law with two separate companies in one location. With all the corporate corruption and Union corruption and government corruption it amazes me we are still surviving as a society. I always worked with people that could read English. I did not see any excuse for being abused, with all the safeguards. When people are not punished severely for hiring illegals and the government is so inept at spotting SS # fraud. You get the current mess we are in.
I would bet that well over a million illegals are working in Los Angeles. NYC, Chicago and Dallas right today. Those are jobs that US citizens could be doing. The question is how many are UNION jobs?
Beats sleeping in a Canyon as they do around here. They had food, shelter and blankets. How humane can one company get? Walmart the people's store.
No we live in a global economy now and the going rate is much lower. What we should do is recruit 500,000 young Chinese men, pay them $20/day, and have them take over all security operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. China and India basically have an endless supply of people looking for a job and willing to work for wages like that.
I think that's to lenient. I suggest more definite cleansing :sick: of the gene pool so that others are not tempted to try the same thing in a year or two.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is total BS. The wealthy have always gotten off easy. They put their money in offshore accounts. Trusts that are fool proof, think Joe Kennedy. There is just more information now than ever before. You are trying to tell US that the working man is not better off today than 100 years ago. Creating jobs whether they are Union or non union is what made this country great. It also gave US the largest percentage in the middle. Those in the middle pay for the government. No Obama or anyone else is going to extract more from the rich. I think their own greed has done a pretty good job over the last year. We are just scratching the surface of con artists like Madoff that took advantage of people's greed. Trying to get something for nothing. Sound familiar. Think UAW Jobs bank.
Some times I feel like I'm one of the few that gets that if the US had universal health care it make things more even.
Something that even fewer people seem to recognize: unions pull up wages at non-union companies. Seriously. If a company pay pay near-union wages and benefits, a lot of the employees will go "Hey, we got it pretty good, we don't need to unionize." The trouble (for the company) starts when they start to renege on that promise.
We could have had universal health care with the New Deal, but what became the Dixiecrats scuttled it because they couldn't stomach the idea of their loved ones lying in a hospital bed next to some black person.
The wealthy have always gotten off easy.
30 years of Reaganism has destroyed the country. It's eviscerated our industrial base, broken the social contract, crushed our unions, savaged our schools and infrastructure, and shifted the nation's wealth from the middle class to the upper 5%. Now that same multi-headed Hydra is devouring itself. Wages have stagnated, the dollar is nosediving, the banking system is paralyzed, and subprime poison is surging through the global system shuddering banks and businesses around the world.
Is this the same “compassionate” Bush who deliberately withheld food, water and medical supplies from Katrina's disaster victims while they huddled in the stinking, feces-infested Superdome or clung to the roofs of their homes while rescue boats were turned away by FEMA goons?
The Bush administration's unprecedented cash giveaway (aka, the "stimulus package") will be accompanied by dollar-crushing rate cuts that will send gas and food prices to the moon. As the nation slides deeper and deeper into recession, it may be worth remembering that the present troubles began with Greenspan's "low interest" monetary policy and a corrupt-deregulated "structured investment" market that allowed chiseling bankers to sell the subprime loans of unemployed restaurant workers--with no collateral, no down payment, and bad credit---into the secondary market as though they were valuable assets. That Ponzi-scam is imploding, and it's now clear that we'll all be expected to pay the multi-trillion dollar losses.
The financial service industry is under the spotlight and has been so since August 2007 when the unfolding debacle of the Sub-Prime/Alternative-A derivative investments became the story on page one. TENs of BILLIONS of these have been written-off/ down worldwide with HUNDREDs of BILLIONS more to come. Such “investments” are literally popping up everywhere, but NOT necessarily where you might expect them to be! This current audit cycle will not only prove critical in identifying who is holding such dubious paper, but also what adjustments will be required to “fairly present” the financial statements (or statements of condition) of the entities under examination by the accounting profession.
While the public’s attention will focused on their banks and the timeliness of this year’s audit’s completion date as well as the nature of the independence accountants’ opinions – be they unqualified, qualified, adverse, or disclaimed; the real focus should be aimed at those audited financials and reports of investment bankers, mutual funds, hedge funds, money market funds, pension funds, municipalities, and insurance companies. While they may face concerns/issues regarding declines in local Real Estate values, and increased foreclosures; I foresee that the local/ regional community banks (who are locally owned and managed) and are not satellites of the national mega-money-center banks, will get thru their audits unscathed with flying colors. The proof behind my assertion will come in the next four months.
That is something that you, rocky and I are in agreement on. I have nothing against Latino workers. Most of my friends are Hispanic. Over half our church is Hispanic. Many came from Mexico the hard way, legally. They are not anymore thrilled with illegal immigrants than most US citizens. I do think they could make the system better. And should require learning the language as a condition of citizenship.
I do not understand how one person can be so wrong on so many levels. The migration of work from the highly unionized Midwest to the South started in a BIG way during the 1960s. In 1958 I got a portable radio made in Japan. Nothing made in the USA was even close. We have not done much mfg of electronic consumer equipment ever. We got out of the TV business while it was still all tube type with NO solid state.
“compassionate” Bush who deliberately withheld food, water and medical supplies from Katrina's
More bull malarkey. Where was Obama and FEMA when people were dying in the Biggest ice storm in recent history in KY? I think he said it all when he only cares about the Urban dwellers.
You put out more irrelevant crap that has nothing to do with the UAW screwing the D3. You never have even addressed the strikes by the UAW last year when GM was bleeding red ink. Because you know they were WRONG to do that.
I'm afraid that I don't understand your point. These weren't "ordinary folks" - they were Federal employees who knowingly violated Federal statutes that explicitly prohibited them from striking. These laws were on the books long before Reagan became President. Although you might argue that firing the controllers was too harsh, you can't avoid the clear fact that this was an illegal strike, plain & simple, & that Reagan had to punish the strikers in some way.
What this has to do with libertarianism or child labor in 19th century British coal mines is beyond me. We're discussing an illegal strike by employees of the U.S. Department of Transportation in 1981.
Unionites were the types of kids who would just take a few of the neighbors apples and jump over the fence and run away. Tee-hee, now let's eat these apples. The Creator won't care, will he, my apple-stealing buddy? Hee-hee. Let's just strike the nation and let airplanes fly around freely, some of them might even be on autopilot. Hee-hhee. Who cares? We're neonites, heck, we're Unionites. We're ultra liberal and free.
What might that be, doing the right thing? How about thinking about what you're doing, not just your ever-expanding pocketbook? Sure you want all that, but is the Company willing to give you all that?
When Reagan canned those striking air traffic controllers he was doing what was right. Clinton would've had to do the same, as would have Barack.
Agreed, dallas?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Going into negotiations the term "good faith effort" is one used. Did the govt go into a good faith effort? There are two sides to every story. As to the law/legal we now have ample evidence that the executive office deems itself above the law and makes the constitution (from which all laws must adhere to) rubbish. Then to forbid certain federal employees the right to organize, we see the trend.
What this has to do with libertarianism or child labor in 19th century British coal mines is beyond me.
This goes to the point of what govt role and or their lack of oversight (smaller govt) means in a society. We have tried it and we can now see that regulation is a good thing.
Furthermore, after years of complaining the hurricane prone Gulf Coast city isn't getting extra money because, well just because they want it, during the previous hated president, the media and politicians have forgotten to complain that Katrina "victims" aren't getting an extra handout in the pork package being called stimulus. I wonder what the difference could be from then to now? It all changed Jan 20. :sick:
If the current guy screws the UAW out of something they feel they are entitled to, it will be okay because he's the guy they helped elect. It's interesting.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
By the way what constitutes a national disaster? When does the president declare a national disaster?
Back to GOOD FAITH NEGOTIATION. It one thing to work without a contract, as long as they are in negotiations, and another thing to say take it or leave it. You have to look up negotiations up in the dictionary. No one like another imposing their will on another. Unilateral things just don't work, just look at the method of imposing democracy on Iraq. If two parties or more sit down and discuss things, your apt to get better results.
Its silly to think that you will agree to buying a car and loan terms put in front of you by a dealership. Hence, you work out something you both can live with. No difference in negotiating your labor and working conditions. Its just that simple.
I prefer to refer to this group as the "Phantasmagorical Third" since I believe polling this group would find them all to be literal believers in a book of fantasy and magic (along with hatred and violence) called the bible. Nothing matters to them except their clear knowledge and close relationship to this fantasy. They recognize Dim Son as one of "them" and justify his actions as being directed by their god. No matter how stupid, how ignorant, "if god said then that's the way it is!"
These are the same people who, when asked if Iraq (Saddam) had anything to do with 911, will emphatically state that Saddam and Osama were DEFINITELY working together, and that Iraq was exactly whom we should have attacked - and nothing will ever change their opinion. Where'd they get this opinion? - many simply answer that their preacher told them - so -it HAS to be true!
This scares the crap out of me as the only solution I can possibly fathom would be a worldwide deprogramming project starting with classes in logic and physics taught in the elementary schools across the planet.
In the interim I simply try to plant questions in their feeble little minds - unfortunately these questions require some thought and many of the repugnicans I encounter are incapable of thinking for themselves.
You never have even addressed the strikes by the UAW last year when GM was bleeding red ink.
They vote to strike and its not your and or my business as non members. Its their right. No one tells Rush to work for $10 an hour (much more than he is worth), he has his rights.
Well there's no shortage of that on your part
I'm not sure the country can afford to spend all this stupid stuff on the pork bill being called stimulus AND then complain about spending a small fraction to help the jobs at the US automakers survive. Somehow this seems a lot more important Pelosi's favorite mouse for $30 M and for aid to the cities through the new Office of Urban Affairs. The cities usually didn't maintain their infrastructure but wasted loads of money on pet projects and on unionized workers who didn't have to work because they were of the right party (Dayton, OH). Currently the city wants the urban money (mayor was at the White House this week) but they are wanting to spend on a garden on the roof of the city building and wanting to spend for developing a Tech Town and something about the green garden areas there as well in a blighted area. I assume a relative or friend of city management has the business for the green garden stuff--just a guess on my part after a few decades of watching how these things work.
This is relevant to the UAW because in 3 decades we've lost a boatload of UAW jobs at Delphi (nee Delco) plants and GM assembly plants along with a Chrysler auto AC units plant. Spending for GM bailout won't help us directly much, other than we have plants that are suppliers to the auto industry; some have closed already with the slowdown and then closing of the Moraine truck plant.But I still support it. Our area is included by some in the "you get what you deserve for having UAW workers in your area" category.
So help GM survive and help UAW workers have a future in retirement, but not necessarily at the overpaid level for current work.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Enough of the drama. Ground the plane just like they ground the space shuttle. As soon as the contract is settled then everything is back to normal.
We have to think outside the box of our own desires and wants.
Those are the very same words used to get the LEAN thinking folks to buy in. However, they don't mention the "jobs for life" and or "executive compensation in Japan". Only the ideas that appeal to them. You have no idea what greed is. The average UAW worker is far from the wholesale orgy the banking system has engaged in. It pathetic that the main stream media, which is owned by big business, has you chasing your tail. A middle class life style is a good thing for America. To bail out the greedy bastards who claim to be the best and brightest is beyond ignorance. Its stupid to put it mildly. Where is their burden? Only in America is failure rewarded. Their failure is the reason all others will be in dire straits if not fail all together.
Well, I'm glad to see that the corporatocracy has accomplished one goal -- getting working people to blame other working people for the mess.
So, you're suggesting we should take benefits away from people who have them just because you don't. Yeah -- that will make everyone feel better.
Why the anti-union rant? Employees who belong to a union make up about what, 10% of the entire labour force or so? The "war" is long over and the anti-union forces have won. In 6 months you learned everything there is to know? Is it any wonder the powerful and privileged classes have won the mother of all financial battles.....too many of us are just to unknowing, uncaring, uninformed and totally oblivious to the real state of what passes for the economic structure of our society.
Because the American Middle Class has to be the stupidest species of animal on the face of the Earth. How else to explain a group of people who, when they vote at all, consistently vote against their own best interests. We've got mom and pop business owners who obviously believe they are going to accumulate wealth like the corporate big boys do and therefore, they don't wanna pay no stinkin' taxes. It doesn't matter if National Healtcare would alleviate them of a big expense of running their business - no sir! They're gonna be captains of industry one day, and the wanna be able to pass that on to their worthless kids without any Communist "death tax" to worry about. It's pathetic; the typical Middle Class American actually belives this. It would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
BTW your interpretation of the dreamed libertarian labor climate is correct. Sweatshops and a two tiered society where corporations control every aspect of life. Von Mises would be proud.
But that's not the deal we're discussing here. Boeing is full of big boys believers in themselves, they can always get another Technical Illustrator off the street, so they let you get your pay up (yes, SPEEA membership surely helped me earn more pay than if not belonging to a union, with a huge Company like Boeing, it probably helps to be in the union, eh?) then they lay your butt off. But know the following.
I should be getting across to anyone reading this thread that I am kind of bitter about companies in corporate America like Boeing. So perhaps you and I are not really that far off in our belief systems, sans religion. And we won't go down that road any more, this topic is about the UAW's.
Union membership wasn't that bad, actually. I will get a nice pension for my 20 years at The Boeing Company, but certainly no healthcare insurance paid by Boeing. Wouldn't expect them to pony up for that. Who knows about when I retire from the Allied Healthcare industry. I sincerely doubt my rural hospital employer will pay my wife and I healthcare insurance benefits after retirement. We turn a profit, but not that big of a profit.
I can understand that you and rockylee are for the working class citizen, he/she does need a helping hand nowadays.
Some skillsets don't require a union, or, if the people of a company are being properly rewarded and compensated for their work, and there are at least some benefits to be had, why would there be a need for a union? What need is there for representation..if you're being treated decently.
So I can understand if you're not being decently treated, you might want to unionize. Lord knows the slaves from the South could have used some Unionization, for sure, for sure. And I don't mean any disrespect regarding that horrible time in human history. There's a need to help a huge cause.
I think what has chapped some hides of readers in this thread, though, is things like the UAW striking GM, Ford or Chrysler when the Companies were not making enough money to pay all of their bills on. Additionally things like the Jobs Bank strike people as being kind of luxurious, too. And not conceding when Big Boy GM is being flushed down the potter maketh no sense at alleth. Really.
Indeed, at Boeing the union newsletters would always say how much Boeing had in it's coffers, and our strike in early 2000 was against a cash-rich Boeing Company. There's the difference, some common sense should be sprinkled upon that desire of the large groups, to sort of quell the "mob mentality" aspect of being in a union.
Wouldn't you agree?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Why the anti-union rant?
How 'bout because the companys (GM and Chrysler) are in dire straights, on the verge of bankruptsy? Tell me how to get blood from a stone.
Exactly! However, I DO fault the big-wigs like Waggoner who took his $17million when the company was losing millions in '07.
Greed is greed whether it be from Madoff, the B. of A, Enron, AIG, Tyco. or Citi-corp execs or the UAW.
You are absolutely correct. And then when they run the company into bankruptcy and beg for myself and the other taxpayers to bail them out, it is my right to bad mouth their ignorant actions. The UAW and totally inept management has run GM into the toilet. I say flush it and don't waste any more money on them. Socialized Health care would make little or no difference. Which will not be free for those that have a job. Instead of the company paying the individual will get to pay. Probably more per month than the company currently pays. Remember the campaign. You don't pay your Universal Health Care premium we will just garnish your wages. The middle class will pay as they ALWAYS have. The wealthy will get off with the same as they ALWAYS have. And you the upper middle class will pay more of the cost for the expanded services provided the NON producing part of our society. Welcome to the World YOU voted for.
Well, there's not been much tort reform because the trial lawyers control our state and federal legislature. The medical schools around me are growing in their enrollments and even adding new med. schools.
Please don't equate a professional like a physician to a UAW worker to make your biased point. It's not even an apples to oranges comparison. It's more like apples to cement.
Jesse Jackson's Newest Staff Member
Mel Reynolds
Jesse Jackson has added former Chicago Democrat Congressman Mel Reynolds to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll. Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused in President Clinton's last-minute forgiveness spree. Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud, and lies to the Federal ElectionCommission. He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer
This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had sex with a subordinate...won clemency from a president who had sex with a subordinate...then was hired by a clergyman who had sex with a subordinate!
His new job?
Ready for this??
*****YOUTH COUNSELOR******
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
That is the mentality now running this country. A utopia you and the UAW have always dreamed about. I think you need to sign ACORN and Rainbow up in the UAW.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
dallas, your argument against me is that I chose the wrong industry, you're barking up a tree that is going to come thundering down and land right on top of the Cadillac CTS you cherish so much.
Since when is it wrong for a breadwinner like myself to pick an industry in America to train in and then do it. And occasionally give my story in here as an option for some of the UAW who might humbly listen? I say it because money can be made.
I agree, medical care costs too much. Some doctors are too greedy, some are not. Some are ethical, some are not. And the drug companies are charging way too much to the people F&DA being in bed with them to maximize profits. Basically robbing the people.
Hey, dallas, I agree about the costs. But I am not the one to tell your agonies to, I am another middle class taxpayer who was booted out the door at a big boy planemaker that is either hideously conservative or stupid, or a chafing combination of both.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick