United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

tlong

The funny thing is many of you same people will claim to be against national healthcare so which is it???

Actually while I am against big government, I'm grudgingly coming to the conclusion that the government should get into the healthcare business, because the current situation is not working. Maybe all the money they save from the drug wars when they legalize drugs could go to health care? :P

Why this is UAW relevant is that the medical costs are a big part of GM's problems and it is in all of our interests to solve the problem. Health care is certainly hurting the competitiveness of some industries. Especially GM who was dumb enough to pay for a lot of gap health care beyond Medicare.

dbostondriver

Malibu is OK, Lucerne is OK, Corvette is OK, and any reliable CTS is OK.
That is it.

rockylee

Fintail,

Unless we do something to address the uncompetitive advantages of the 3rd world pal, the UAW won't be the only thing done. Won't you agree that 401K plans are a joke??

-Rocky

rockylee

Aura, Traverse, Outlook, Enclave, Silverado, Sierra, G8, Tahoe, Suburban, Yukon, Sky, Soltice are chop liver???

-Rocky

rockylee

Well Jennifer, has raised taxes so high here in Michigan, that only the wealthy will be able to smoke. I'm glad I quit smoking. I don't think legalizing all drugs would be a good thing but marijuana would cut down the prison population and eliminate a huge percentage of our crime.

-Rocky

rockylee

I feel bad for them all. I hate people losing there jobs as I've been a victim of it a few times in my life. It's sad.

-Rocky

marsha7

You really have it all wrong when it comes to 401Ks. Yes, there is risk, as in any investment there is risk...just like an IRA, it is for the long term, plus, if your employer matches ANYTHING it is virtually free money...

5 years ago, I thought the market was overvalued and was ready to crash...obviously, I was right, but 4.5 years too soon...but, we placed my wife's 401K into interest bearing instruments, simply waiting and accumulating until the crash came, then pick up shares for pennies instead of the overinflated prices preached on CNBC...

Guess how much my wife's 401K is down since the summer???...NOTHING...we have not lost a penny, simply because we did not follow CNBC, we followed our own thinking...now, just waiting until the final drop (this is a bear market rally, next drop within a year, Dow down to 3000-5000;, time to buy is when blood is running in the streets, and there has not been sufficient blood shed yet, only a few trillion $$$ lost, not enough for a bottom) and then pick up shares for nothing...then sit on them...Ford may be one of the survivors, may pick it up cheap and sit on it for 5-10 years...if they survive this, they will survive anything short of nuclear war in Dearborn...

So, remember that following the UAW line makes YOU one of the brainwashed sheeple, as you go to sleep each night, wondering how floorsweepers can get a raise from the $35/hour they are currently paid...

And, while you rail against the 401K, it is simply because YOu must follow the crowd and lose money, while some of us sit on the sidelines and watch the sheeple, like you, lose money in theirs...allow me to gve you a word that may have been missing in your UAW childhood...RESPONSIBILITY...gagrice will understand, as he takes full responsibility for his 401K, and understands that time will bring it back...you, OTOH, rocky, will always expect someone else to be responsibile for your retirement, so you want the gov't to do it for you...let them do it for YOU, but please don't try to force your lack of ability and responsibility on us, for some of us are willing to be responsible for our lives, and are, quite frankly, disgusted at those who would turn it over to the government...you can barely take care of yourself now, so maybe it makes sense that you expect someone else to take care of you later, but some of us still have some sense of personal responsibility, so your "cradle to grave" mentality is why this country is really going down the tubes...

That is why Bush's idea of allowing me to put part of my SS into the stock market was a GREAT idea, and still is, because I would love to have even more of my money that I could take responsibility to invest...once again, your fear of responsibility is why you are afraid of it...being raised in UAW-think has disabled any form of independent thinking you might have had, had you been raised in a family that understood capitalism...

You can let the union take care of you...the rest of us have some inner pride left, please don't let your lack of free thinking hinder the rest of us...

Someday, despite your upbringing, you WILL have to take responsibility...up to now, you have obviously avoided it...keep looking for the $35/hour floorsweeper job, you may find it in Wonderland...thise silly gravy train days are over...

fintail

401Ks are only problematic when related to the downward wage pressures wrought by the rotten ideal of globalization - over time people are going to be able to spare less - so the top 1% can have more. They are not perfect, but some onus of retirement planning should be on the individual. On that note, the entitlement mentality of a 10% annual ROI seen in the past decade in stocks and real estate must be killed. This short term garbage thinking is why we see so many problems today.

Underfunded pension plans that exist via public and private sector unions are a much greater danger than 401Ks. How are these things supposed to survive the en masse retirement of the boomers? Did people in 1970 really expect everything to be peachy keen and progressive in 2010?

andre1969

Won't you agree that 401K plans are a joke??

A 401k plan is what you make of it. You can choose to invest conservatively, aggressively, or anywhere in between. And you can choose how little or how much (up to $16,500 in 2009) to invest. If you picked out aggressive options in your plan, then you probably lost your shirt toward the later part of 2008. If you went a more conservative route, you might've just lost a sleeve or button. :P

Actually, the best thing you can do, if you have a 401k, is to make sure you keep contributing now, while the market's down and prices are low. Over the long term, the market will stabilize and improve, and hopefully we'll all look back at 2008 as just a bad memory.

Sure, a pension would have been nice. But I'd probably have to wait until 65 to get it. And then, what if the pension fund was mismanaged, and there wasn't enough to cover it? The gov't would theoretically step in, but even that's not a sure bet.

FWIW, I'll get a pension when I turn 65, for the years I put in with McDonnell-Douglas and Boeing. It's something like $349.21. Big whoop. And it's not indexed to inflation. So by 2035, I guess $349.21 might almost be enough to buy a case of beer. :sick:

rockylee

Marsha7,

I must of struck a nerve with a response such as the one above. WOW!!! :surprise:

-Rocky

rockylee

I got out before the market totally crashed. I guess I'm not a fan of 401K's because I was told by Marsha7, that union people don't take responsibility for anything. Alriiiighty!!! :confuse:

-Rocky

dbostondriver

Rocky, you seirously have a ton of time. Is this what you do at the jobs bank all day.
Also you have been sipping the Buick/GM cool-aide for too long. What happens when GM hands you one of 162,000 pink slips they are planning. Will the bail-out money still look well spent then.
What if Hyundai gave you a gig with better benefits doing the same thing? Would you still work for GM? And since your such a smart investor, what are you relying on your retirement for?

marsha7

You ALWAYS strike a nerve because many of your posts have no connection with normal reality...you expect the employer to do everything including wash your clothes, you want the gov't to do everything that the employer does not do, and no where do you accept responsibility for anything...so, yes, you strike a nerve because you somehow, in your mind, justify illiterate UAW floorsweepers at $35/hour, then insult Southerners as illiterate hicks, when if you want to see illiterate, just look at a GM assembly line...I am sure they have not raised their educational standards since I left in 1990, and they had no brains back then...if you want to see "sheeple" just listen to UAW people as they try and tell us why, at $35/hour, a floorsweeper is underpaid and deserves more...you only justify it by avoiding the topic (how is he supposed to support 5 kids on minimum wage?) when he should have thought twice about having 5 kids with the education of a 1st grader...

No, the sheeple are the ones you run with, because they have to use Gettlefinger as their brains because they have none of their own...they screamed when they had to pay a small copay on their health care, because they were spoiled by 100% coverage for years, while the rest of the nation always paid a portion of their healthcare...they, your UAW buddies, are the most spoiled, illiterate, overpaid, over-rated people this world has seen, they made junk for years, and they still wonder why imports have grown as much as they do...

And they still expect everything to be paid 100% and have no idea why GM is in trouble...

And you have no respect for the hicks of the South???...have you ever looked at your own, the hicks of the North???

Yes, you struck a nerve...

When is your divorce gonna be over so you can marry Beth, an almost-conservative who might inject some real usable capitalistic thoughts into you???...I am about ready to give up... :P :lemon:

rockylee

Rocky, you seirously have a ton of time. Is this what you do at the jobs bank all day.

Not exactly as I work 6 days a week. It has been my slowest day on the job since I started and after finishing up my internet stuff I've had some time to follow this forum today more so than most other days.

Also you have been sipping the Buick/GM cool-aide for too long. What happens when GM hands you one of 162,000 pink slips they are planning. Will the bail-out money still look well spent then.

I personally don't think that will happen because GM, is too big to fail. If GM, goes belly up this recession will turn into the great depression!!!

What if Hyundai gave you a gig with better benefits doing the same thing? Would you still work for GM?

I guess that depends on the dealer and the offer. I would have a hard time working for a import dealership and if I get out of cars it will be doing something hopefully back in law enforcement which I did before.

And since your such a smart investor, what are you relying on your retirement for?

Most folks in my generation won't be able to retire because by then our Chinese Masters will be working us until we die!!! :sick:

-Rocky

dbostondriver

So you work at a GM/Buick dealership and have no money saved. Why do we even humor you. Also Rocky, GM and Buick dealerships are going up in smoke and they don't pay salesman to leave dealerships.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/23/smallbusiness/norris_chevrolet/index.htm
But hey look at it this way: "The benefit for GM is that those fewer, more profitable dealerships will have the money to invest in expensive upgrades, like prettier showrooms and better lighting. They'll also be able to attract the best staff."

fintail

With the way the "free market" is printing fiat paper greenbacks, you might be right about what $350 will buy in 25 years.

rockylee

You ALWAYS strike a nerve because many of your posts have no connection with normal reality...you expect the employer to do everything including wash your clothes, you want the gov't to do everything that the employer does not do, and no where do you accept responsibility for anything...so, yes, you strike a nerve because you somehow, in your mind, justify illiterate UAW floorsweepers at $35/hour, then insult Southerners as illiterate hicks, when if you want to see illiterate, just look at a GM assembly line...I am sure they have not raised their educational standards since I left in 1990, and they had no brains back then...if you want to see "sheeple" just listen to UAW people as they try and tell us why, at $35/hour, a floorsweeper is underpaid and deserves more...you only justify it by avoiding the topic (how is he supposed to support 5 kids on minimum wage?) when he should have thought twice about having 5 kids with the education of a 1st grader...

Well it's better than the father-daughter relationships that are as common in Georgia, as the sunshine. :P Your redneck hicks suck the state dry of welfare benefits and have 5 kids they stuff in a single wide trailer in some slum in North East Georgia. The UAW worker at least goes to work while you guys in the south talk a big game but are the least productive of any area in the U.S. FYI- a 1st grade education in Michigan is equivalent to 12 in Georgia and more than any non-union Hyundai, assembly line worker that thinks he has the world by the [non-permissible content removed] with his $13 an hr. crap 401K he will never be able to afford to contribute too and crap insurance coverage.

No, the sheeple are the ones you run with, because they have to use Gettlefinger as their brains because they have none of their own...they screamed when they had to pay a small copay on their health care, because they were spoiled by 100% coverage for years, while the rest of the nation always paid a portion of their healthcare...they, your UAW buddies, are the most spoiled, illiterate, overpaid, over-rated people this world has seen, they made junk for years, and they still wonder why imports have grown as much as they do...

Your corporate neocon globalist "earned" there millions. I love the double standard for the wealthy and the middle class. :confuse:

And they still expect everything to be paid 100% and have no idea why GM is in trouble...

Why should it not??? If we fixed the issues we could get back to private sector health plans which is better than the government having to step in.

And you have no respect for the hicks of the South???...have you ever looked at your own, the hicks of the North???

Yep and most of them came from the south. They are transplants from Arkansas, Georgia, Alabama, etc. :P

Yes, you struck a nerve...

Sorry!!! Now you know how I feel after you post.

When is your divorce gonna be over so you can marry Beth, an almost-conservative who might inject some real usable capitalistic thoughts into you???...I am about ready to give up...

I wished I had a end date. Her wealthy mother has too much money she sucked out of her father to take me on. I've given more than $10K to two of your kind thus if I'm a little rough of lawyers I apologize. $10K should of yielded me a divorce and now I got to wait until the end of the month too see if she is going to let it get tossed out of court. If she does I'm going to try to file here in Michigan, but I need to find out how the laws read. :confuse:

-Rocky

clarencehollow

I find it funny how the UAW thinks it's the only one to focus on. Over the years the automakers have given in to the UAW. All you have to do is look at what they get paid, and see the huge laundry list of benefits and simply add it all up and compare it to the average person - and it's really is sickening. Not to mention all the paid time off, for holidays, accrued sick time, vacation, voting, and guaranteed breaks and a whole hour to each lunch - plus all the screw off time. You guys need to understand that there are numerous automobile manufacturing facilities across America and those non-unionized people are working for companies that do not have the problems the big 3 do. You can't blame japan, germany, outsourcing or bush or obama for any of this. This problem is one that you created through greedy union bosses that could care less if their company survives and at what ultimate cost. Now you are clawing your way out of the fish bowl you climbed into. Now you're getting what I call - The Equalizer Theory. It's all relative to the physics of kharma. Why can they build the Camry, Altima and Accord in the US and have these cars stand out amongst Domestics and hold their values coming from non-union shops? This shows me that Unions obviously produce inferior products. What excuse do you have? You're the ones who claim to build these domestic!

The Best option for GM is to go Bankrupt. This is how huge companies survive and are protected. These UAW agreements will become dissolved and GM can then survive and flourish with a new attitude and new face.

But instead of saving Ford or GM you union folks would rather see the whole ship sink if you can't have it done YOUR way.

rockylee

I work at a Chevy dealership pal!!! One thing I've found is people aren't attracted by the glamourous showrooms and prefer the relaxed family setting. We have a nice dealership though but without the plasma's everywhere.

-Rocky

kernick

So you are comparing my nationalism to that of the German people in support of the Third Reich.

LOL. So of all the nationalistic movements in history, you yourself chose to compare your views to [non-permissible content removed] Germany! LOL

No my friend, I said look at history in general. Whether it be the Romans, the British, the French, the Germans of WW1, the Japanese in WW2, or the U.S. in Vietnam, history teaches you that nationalism - profiting in isolation at the expense of others, who you consider are your inferiors - not sharing prosperity, doesn't work well.

If you don't learn anything else today, you should understand that if it weren't for the Chinese owning so many of our treasury bills, and relying on the U.S. to support their economy so much by buying their products - that you have a moral problem with, we would probably be in a very tense Cold War situation with China.

Maybe you don't remember the Cold War, but many of us do. I'd rather do business with China, Vietnam, and Russia, rather than all of us not trading and rattling sabers. Thus we have relative peace and globalization. You're alternative dream-world would be much worse, but you don't seem to realize it.

rockylee

Well obviously you haven't taken a look in a domestic car in the last decade or two thus I ask you to do yourself a favor and test drive a 2009 Malibu against the camcord and come back on here and tell which one is nicer!!!

-Rocky

dbostondriver

Lets hope you work in the city and have some axillary brands under your dealer's belt to prop it up. Don't kid yourself that GM is looking to trim the fat.
When shopping for cars, I like a dealership that is roomy, well lit, has clean bathrooms, free coffee, TV's to put the football games on, is in a good neighborhood, and has genuine salesman.

kernick

...if you want to see "sheeple" just listen to UAW people as they try and tell us why, at $35/hour,

Totally agree. All I hear from the pro-union people is protect our wages, benefits, and jobs. The government needs to bail us out and protect U.S. jobs. The government needs to pass public-fiunded health-care. yada, yada, yada.

I'm not in a union, I'm not an executive or making 6-figures, I don't want a guarantee of a pension (I'll save for myself, and in a 401K), I don't want public-health-insurance I'd prefer to pay cash for services. And if I get laid off I'm certainly not going around with the attitude that someone's going to offer me a job on a silver-plater.

I'm one of those people who realize that certain jobs are affected by globalization and others aren't. Being in the UAW and making cars has global competition. I would liken the UAW mentality to the sheeple-from-hell. Unwilling to take any responsibility for themselves in life, and forever being ungrateful that they are being taken care of very well.

kernick

Ha - I was in a Chevy dealer last week getting my car inspected, and the receptionist suggested I sit in the new "Traverse", which was actually a Malibu hybrid. Well I did sit in it, and I can tell you the gray cloth interior was nothing great. Maybe they have an upgrade with leather and wood? But what I sat in, was rental car quality.

fintail

"sharing prosperity" = the first world masses making do with less so the globalist elite can make do with more. "relative peace and globalization" = destruction (and often outlawing) of national identity and pride for the furthering of consumerism and the benefit of multinational corporations and some parasitic special interests.

This is what the west gets for not properly dealing with communism. Maybe it is a deserved fate, a race to the bottom and eventual death.

rockylee

The only reason why we would be is because we allowed them to build there military using our technology. If we would of never shipped that first job to China, that country would still be living in the stone age.

The reason why I brought up [non-permissible content removed] Germany is because it was referenced by another poster. I find nothing wrong with being nationalistic and carrying more about your country than another nation especially when that other nation wants to cause harm.

-Rocky

rockylee

Well we fit your criteria thus come to Rockford, MI. and I can address and exceed all of your needs!!! :P

-Rocky

rockylee

Whatever!!! We do have leather models called the LTZ and you can get NAV, Bose 5.1, rearview camera, etc, etc, etc...Our Traverse like the Enclave and Acadia are the best made CUV's on the market buddy!!! Go sit in a LTZ model and get back to me. You probably sat in a LS "base" model but sure at $29K it's not going to be a Rolls Royce interior pal!!!

-Rocky

dbostondriver

Sounds good Rocky. Do you have any deals on Fusions or Escapes?

rockylee

Thank-you Mr. Fintail!!! Why do only a few on here understand what the globalist has in store for us??? :confuse:

-Rocky

rockylee

I sell new Chevy's as far as new goes pal. I could get you a lightly used pre-owned Ford, if you wanted one lol!!!

-Rocky

chikoo

Rocky, I have told this before, but in case it has vaporized, I hold a degree in Industrial Engineering, worked as an Industrial Engineer in Manufacturing plants for quite some time holding various titles along the way. I know it can get dirty working in manufacturing plants. Not denying that. I was recommending cleaning up after.

>A lot of my relatives have had knee replacements, shoulder surgeries, and some carpal tunnel.

I find this almost unbelievable. Did 4 of them lift an engine from the corners and mounted it in the engine bays? Were your relatives not using any of the work simplification tools i.e. Joists, etc....I would think this would be problem in China, not the US. In the manufacturing plants I have worked, and they were not electronics assembly but full blown - made Motors, turbines, pharmaceutical and Glass bottle molding machinery. Never heard of any of the labors had to get knee and shoulder surgeries.

chikoo

>I personally don't think that will happen because GM, is too big to fail. If GM, goes belly up this recession will turn into the great depression!!!

I will bet that it will not. That is plain and simple scare tactics.

clarencehollow

The best most seasoned Professional sales person still only makes about $75- $100 bucks commission selling at GMS prices... so if they are selling 20 cars a month (national average is 10 cars a month) - they make a measly $24,000 a year even though the dealerships pocket $1000 to $2000 in hold back per car. I think car salespeople should make at least $30 an hour base plus commission with all the crap they have to take from rude and obnoxious buyers.

dbostondriver

In 2007 you said: "Actually, I like cutting the Buick name more. Since Saturn is going Euro-sporty (and becoming Opel North America) Pontiac matches up better as a lower-end Cadillac than Buick.
Besides, from what I've seen the dealer mix tends to go Chevy/Cadillac, and Pontiac/Buick/GMC. So just fold Buick into Pontiac."
What happened to your Buick loving back then? Are you sure your not paid by GM to right posts on this wall?

cooterbfd

".....By the way, the new LaCrosse was developed by Buick China on the global platform. They must have a thing for the new Mazda6."

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. I like the looks of it, INSIDE especially.

Next time read your own article:

".....That car was the joint work of GM teams in China and Michigan and was billed as "Buick's strongest statement yet of its deliberately international plans."

Joint, as in cooperative, not the stuff you're smokin'

gagrice

That car was the joint work of GM teams in China and Michigan

Here is the question. How much content will be USA made vs Made in China. Would you still want a new LaCrosse if it was 50% Chinese content?

dbostondriver

With the half baked products GM has been putting out, let's give a little credit to Buick China.

dbostondriver

What are you you talking about? Keep it on topic. UAW.

fintail

If you want to be a host, contact Edmunds.

Othwerwise...well, I will censor myself :shades:

Globalization topics and unions are as connected as Boston and inept hockey team ownership...

cooterbfd

".....You mentioned earlier about a mere $7/hour difference between UAW and non-union automakers...that is not quite the whole story...that assumes that both plants hire the same number of workers to make the same number of cars...you muct remember that Honda makes as many cars with 2000 workers as GM does with 6000 workers, so it is $7/hour multiple by GM's extra 4000 workers PER PLANT, all due to silly UAW work restrictions...so that comes to $28,000 PER HOUR, $280,000 per day (10 hour day), approx $1.5 million per week per plant, $75 million dollars per year...now multiple $75 million times the number of GM plants, and it does add up...that does not count for the UAW absenteeism due to drunks and drug addicts...and you wonder why their cost structure is ridiculous???"

Even if this is correct (and it's not, because it is a $7 difference for the FIRST 2000 workers, and THEN the full monty, $52/hr??? for the REMAINING 4000 workers, so at 10 hrs that's $140,000 for the first 2000, then $2.8 million for the other 4000)

I think the bigger issue is the legacy costs not actual labor. IIRC, some of GM's plants have the lowest labor times (man/hrs per auto) in the industry.

On a side issue, considering our debate over US vs imported labor on clothes, I was at Olympia Sports looking at running shoes for my son for track. They had one particular model New Balance shoe, model 479, one in grey that was made in China, and one in black made in USA. BOTH pairs were $64.99. How can that be???

dbostondriver

Margin's on close are high. But even if they lost money on the one shoe they make enough on the China shoe to cover it. New Balance was the last athletic shoe company to move oversees.
New Balance make shoes in the US, but they are marketed as being made in the USA and charge a premium.
http://www.nbwebexpress.com/information/madeinusa.asp?page=1
Also, for better or worst, they don't endorse athletes. I own two pairs of New Balance and they last forever.

tlong

What happened to your Buick loving back then? Are you sure your not paid by GM to right posts on this wall?

You think Rocky is perhaps Wagoner or Gettlefinger in disguise? :confuse:

dbostondriver

Hey, he was pro ditching Buick back then. I think he is Rick Wagoner's blacksheep son. He couldn't get into Duke like Papa Wagoner so he sells GM.

cooterbfd

".....Here is the question. How much content will be USA made vs Made in China. Would you still want a new LaCrosse if it was 50% Chinese content?"

Ehhh....ummm....do I have to answer that, as I already promised my Ultra to my Godson???

Oh well, I guess I'd settle for a loaded Aura.

dallasdude1

So should GM just continued to be bailed out? Is that your recommendation?

If economics 101 says that a bank and or an insurance company are sure bets and absolutely impossible to fail. So why are the banks and AIGs getting bailed out? Certainly we should give GM the same type of capitalism? Why does the taxpayer have to buy toxic assets/legacy assets/assets with STDs? Can you not give the UAW/GM the same consideration as the folks who created the entire mess? Fact is that demand for autos is down by about 50% worldwide and GM is not the root cause. Nor is the UAW the root cause of worldwide recession/depression.

Ford has the best selling car in Europe and the best truck in America. Time has just shown that GM has a failing culture

Most folks know that GM owns Opel and GM of France makes transmissions for most of BMWs. Get your facts straight.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/News/Top_ten_article.aspx?cp-documentid=7319152

cooterbfd

".....Globalization topics and unions are as connected as Boston and inept hockey team ownership..."

(please....God don't make me go there.....) OK, Steve, 1 post. ONLY 1 post....

From 1974, when Jacobs bought the team, until the first lockout in 1994, Boston made the Stanley cup finals 5 times; 1974,1977,1978,1988, and 1990. They lost the conference championship to the eventual champs 3 other times, in 1979,1983,and 1992. That's quite a feat, considering that the teams they lost to, Philly, Montreal, the Isles, Edmonton, and Pittsburg all won multiple championships during those periods, and had the best players in the game at that time. No shame in that. Also, if not for Alan Eagleson, Bobby Orr would be a minority shareholder in the team, offered by Jacobs, for what would've amounted to 25 games played.

Granted, Harry Sinden never won a cup as a GM, but he always tried to keep the team fresh, trading away talent like Phil Esposito for Brad Park, and Barry Pederson for Cam Neely AND a first round draft pick (Glen Wesley) which paid dividend for them for almost 20 years.

WHEW....OK, back to the UAW

cooterbfd

I doubt they would lose money on any of them, just to say Made in USA. These were at Olympia, and retailed for $64.99, but were on sale for $49.99 Both pairs were identical in looks and model number (save color). The Nike's were $80 and up, all made in China.

marsha7

Well, thanks for the math correction...I should have seen that myself...as far as a family site, my mind was ONLY on family-type thoughts when I posted that...maybe she COULD teach him something about reality...

BTW, I really get tired about folks thinking that this world would not survive without GM...they said the same thing about Eastern Airlines, and they evaporated and the world still exists...yes, Atlanta and Miami had to work thru the job losses, but they did...and the stupid airline mechanics (Machinist Union, I believe...uh-oh, another union problem) would rather see eastern go down than give up their rank as the highest paid in the industry...looking at the UAW problem, we have been thru this before...

GM would not file Ch 7, they would file Ch 11 and dump debt and dump UAW contracts...the next stage would simply be UAW members surrendering their plasma TVs, vacation homes on the coast, and their RV...they would do fine in the long run...

That is another side effect of UAW brainwashing that has infected our rocky...he thinks that this planet cannot exist unless GM continues to hire more worthless people to continue to make more cars that fewer and fewer want to buy...face the fact that much of GM will follow Oldsmobile into the dustbin of history, and no one will miss them, except the dealer who (theoretically) sell them...Hummer, Saturn, Pontiac, Saab, maybe Buick (fold it into Cadillac) and (take your pick, they only need one) Chevy Truck or GMC truck...they don't need an entire "division" just to sell a few G6 or G8 or Solstices, fold them into Chevrolet...

Like the UAW in the 30s and 40s, when they were needed, Alfred Sloan's model was brilliant from the 30s/40s well into the 80s...once the price of a discounted decked out Olds 98 was the same as loaded Impala, Slaon's model was on life support...they acknowledged it with the death of Oldsmobile, and now the hatchet needs to go further with the other brands as I stated...

Same with Mercury, who is really just for someone who wants the exact Ford product with a different dashboard or grille...and to have fully independent dealers just for Mercury is ridiculous...just Lincoln and Ford will do just fine...maybe even under the same roof...

fintail

Neely was some good luck...but what has become of the team in modern times? The team hasn't won a playoff series in a decade, and I see no light at the end of the tunnel. Jacobs is a greedy egoistic cheapskate when it comes to that team. Sounds like he might have simply bought something that wasn't in bad condition at the time.

Bruins are going to be like the Blackhawks of the east....inherited fortunes don't bode well in hockey.

And that was my 1 post... :shades: