"I respectfully disagree!!! My state would fall apart if the Big 3 were to go under. If you think unemployment is bad in Michigan, let the Big 3 go belly up"
(Side comment: you guys are making me work hard to keep up with all this posting...don't y'all know by now that MY opinions are worth reading and analyzing, while all the rest is just...filler???...:):):):):)...)
rocky, if the gov't does not "let" them go belly up (I still maintain Ch 11, not Ch 7 liquidation) then what happens if the market buys fewer and fewer of their cars???...do you actually maintain that the lines should keep making cars that sit in parking lots just to keep people busy???...does the UAW think that this is the road to the future???...do you???
Can we just get rid of Chrysler already. They are a private company owned by a firm with questionable intentions. From a public and emotional standpoint, throwing out the empty threat of leaving Canada is despicable.
What about all the Buicks we sell in China and all the toys American companies make in China. And the Germans did not hurt Cadillac, Cadillac hurt Cadillac. Remember the Cimarron! :lemon:
I think FedEx has more stroke than WalMart. The only thing WM can do is quit buying junk from China in retaliation for this horrible legislation.
Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 12:52:48 PM PDT
In one of the most dramatic and specific responses by a corporation to the potential passing of the Employee Free Choice Act, FedEx has made specific threats of drastically cutting capital expenditure should the legislation pass:
The Memphis, Tenn., company has exercised an option to buy 15 B777F planes from Boeing Corp. and has an option to buy an additional 15 planes, Mr. Lane said. But in exercising its option on the first 15, FedEx has obtained contract language that would allow it to cancel the order should Congress pass the law. FedEx would likely obtain similar conditions for the purchase of the other 15, the company said.
While devious, I think FedEx's move here is brilliant in combating the pro-EFCA arguments. A company actually threatening to cut capital expenditures, when we really do need companies to be spending to avoid more layoffs and to create jobs.
If FedEx were to decide to decline their options on these 30 new jets, that would be over $7.5 billion in revenue that Boeing would be short. This would inevitably lead to Boeing outsourcing more and hurting the http://, which has already been taking hits as of late. Basically, pitting union against union as well as union against management.
EFCA is an ill conceived idea that throws Democracy OUT THE WINDOW. Not to mention the 1000s of jobs that will be lost. This report from no less than the very liberal rag:
While I am by no means pro union, and feel that companies should be unihibitted in their reason for firing/laying off employees. I do feel that any group of employees should be able to form a union. Example, if you company cuts wages by 25%, the employees should be allowed to unionize and strike.
I thought I posted this link in here, but maybe it was somewhere else:
"While union bosses disdain secret ballots at America’s workplaces, they require them for internal elections.
Big Labor and its Democratic allies have pressed secret ballots in Mexico while pummeling them here. “Why can’t Mexican workers have the right to secret ballot elections to vote for any union?” then-UAW president Stephen Yokich asked Mexico’s former president Vicente Fox in July 2001. The UAW, naturally, would deny American workers this right"
I believe the economy will turn-around. It might take some time but do agree GM, can't afford to over produce and as we've seen the UAW workers are taking buy-outs. Obama, is turning into a free-marketeer capitalist which is very disappointing to me. I might be voting for someone else next go around if he doesn't keep his promise to address trade. You guys need to give us someone like Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul, both of whom I can agree with at least on some issues. :sick:
Alright where is the "real" dbostondriver at??? Somebody hit him over the head this morning and tied him up because there is no way this is him!!! :surprise:
Thanks Steve. I don't know how the EFCA is a win for Unions. Yes it makes it easier to form a union, but won't the specter of being a target deter employees from agreeing to unionize. Ex: you say your up for the union and then the company fires you? :confuse:
I do feel that any group of employees should be able to form a union.
I totally agree and have spent time organizing for the Alaska Teamsters. What I object to is this lame idea that you get 51% of the employees to sign cards and you are instantly unionized. It is so open ended for abuse. Unions like the UAW would have no problem sending some of their gorillas to your home and requesting you sign. I would not want some goon harassing me to sign a Union card.
The real downside is it will push even more companies to right to work states. So then you have a union with maybe half the people paying dues. That is why the UAW never wastes a lot of time organizing in RTW states. Or you sign a card to get the Union in and decide you don't like being a member. You can quit paying dues and still get the wages negotiated by the Union.
People that are pushing for this are really clueless as to what big corporations will do. This will not get Walmart organized. Even if it did there would be massive layoffs. They are NOT going to pay some 70 year old UAW retiree $12 per hour to greet people. Just will NOT happen.
There is a lot of risk if it doesn't pass for employees who were open to unionization. Just remember most people that became successful at something assumed a certain amount of risk and in many cases sacrificed for the cause. That is what makes this country great but we are as a nation losing our courage.
Hey Rocky, it cuts both ways. Employees should be able to fire at will and employees should be able to strike at will. The UAW is just to powerful; kind of like the Baseball Players Union. The UAW is so focused on the bottom line that it is hurting GM and the UAW's long term. Just like the Players Union wanted to protect steroid using players, but did not care to thing of the damage it would do to the game and player reputations. And don't get me wrong, I want GM to survive. I just want to see an efficient GM that doesn't get cheap on their cars. Hopefully one day I will own a Corvette Z06 and by then it won't have a cheap interior and Cobalt steering wheel. :lemon:
Well the greeter can hit the bricks. It's a worthless job anyways. Wal~Mart, needs to be unionized. If Obama, had any hair he would write a federal law that would supercede the RTW laws of the states. I agree without changing other domestic issues EFCA, will not work and I hate to say this agree with gagrice. I will however support it's passage anyways and we can then tackle the other issues to strengthen EFCA.
you say your up for the union and then the company fires you?
There are laws against that. The NLRB will prosecute a company that fires someone because of Union affiliation. Currently it takes 1/3rd of the employees to sign cards that are SECRET. So the company does not know who you are. Then the NLRB sets up an election and you have to have a simple majority of the employees vote in a secret ballot that they would like to become Union. So if it does not pass the company cannot put you on the LIST. With EFCA all you need is 51% of the employees to sign a card that is NOT secret to become Union. Now the company knows who are the trouble makers. I think it is VERY bad for Unions that are really legitimate. I don't include the UAW in that group. They have been on a slow ride down hill since 1970. The Teamsters who would like the easy road with EFCA as well, signed up 68,000 new members in 2008. That was without EFCA. Just got my Teamster magazine yesterday.
rockylee: Obama, is turning into a free-marketeer capitalist which is very disappointing to me. I might be voting for someone else next go around if he doesn't keep his promise to address trade.
Do you really believe that he is going tell moderates in places like suburban Philadelphia and Los Angeles that he is going to restrict their right to buy a Toyota or BMW, or make it more expensive to purchase through tariffs, to save the UAW, GM and Chrysler?
He's a guaranteed one-term president if he does take that route.
What do you drive/own now??? The UAW, hasn't been powerful since the 1970's. Reagan, gave tax breaks to corporate america that off-shored and that alone killed millions of union and non-union jobs. Just imagine if those millions of jobs would of stayed right here in our country just how great our standard of living would be and how low our unemployment would be!!!!
If he doesn't go that route he will be a guaranteed one-term president because he won't win the midwest. I guarantee you millions of people will be pissed off if he doesn't structure this economy to create good paying jobs.
Good luck getting the NLRB, to do anything!!! It's a joke!!! If you don't think that corporate america has them baught and paid for gagrice, you are folling yourself. We filed more than 550 charges against our employer and not one of the issues outside of the most severe safety issues were taken serious.
Rocky, you miss the point. Most jobs that have been outsourced are jobs that could be compentively produce in the US, especially the North East. Malden Mills was the las textile mill in New England; they made fleece. After a fire that destroyed the factory, the owner tried to build a bigger factory at the same sight. Guess what, Malden Mills went bankrupt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden_Mills
“We are writing to encourage you to use the secret ballot in all union recognition elections,” 16 House Democrats argued in a 2001 letter to Mexican authorities. Among the letter’s signers was EFCA sponsor Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.).
So, why do union bosses fear secret ballots? They complain that anti-labor CEOs intimidate workers during union drives, even as card-check campaigners spook employees.
Having been on the losing side a few times in Union elections. I can say that the Union does as much schmoozing as management. The Teamsters would have big fancy BBQs with free booze and food. The management would offer bonuses and higher wages. So those elections no matter how they turned out were good for the working man. I am personally thankful that my career included 3 different Unions over 46 years. I sure as anything did not always agree with the way the Unions were run.
I am glad you brought that up. It is a perfect example of a Federal Agency that is inept at doing the job they get paid for. I can tell you that most government agencies are run about the same. And to think they can run Health Care is a total joke. Let me put it more succinctly. The government makes the UAW look half way decent.
As far as all the charges, you should have let the company fire the fat employees as they should not be allowed to protect our Nuclear Defenses. People doing terrorist patrol should be in TOP condition. Not 300 lb donut munchers. Another case of Unions going to far in protecting worthless employees.
How would you suggest the UAW go about unionizing the foreign company's plants such as Georgetown?
Unionizing a company without some history of low pay and benefits is very tough. When the Honda workers see what is happening to the UAW workers it is not a picture they want a part of. If GM goes down and Honda tries to make drastic cuts in pay, the UAW or some legitimate Union may have a chance. I would start with the Electricians in the plant.
rockylee: If he doesn't go that route he will be a guaranteed one-term president because he won't win the midwest.
The Midwest doesn't decide elections. He would LOSE the West and Northeast, which more than wipes out the votes he would keep from the industrial Midwest.
Plus, what are those disgruntled Midwesterners going to do...vote Republican? The Republicans aren't going to advocate tariffs.
People like their Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, Benzes, etc. They don't want to be "protected" from the products and ideas offered by these companies. It's time for the UAW to accept this and move on.
rockylee: I guarantee you millions of people will be pissed off if he doesn't structure this economy to create good paying jobs.
I didn't vote for Obama, but I certainly don't expect him to "structure" the economy to create good jobs. Companies and customers structure the economy through their individual decisions. What you want is for the government to ignore or thwart those decisions to protect one small group of workers - the UAW.
If the UAW and GM want to enjoy the fruits of good jobs in a growing economy, I'd suggest that they work together to build vehicles that people want to buy at prices that earn GM a profit. That route is likely to be more productive, as opposed to waiting for government handouts and blaming currency manipulation, Wal-Mart, Consumer Reports or George W. Bush.
We didn't have any folks that were 300 pounds on our protective force gagrice. However we did have some very unsafe working conditions. Hummers that weren't maintained and people almost got affixated as a result of it. Our ballistic vests were never designed to be woren 13 hours a day but because management wanted us to look cool and impressive to "impress" government officials well they made us wear them even though our doctors at the plant said it will cause long-term back injuries. The NLRB, did nothing!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
The Midwest doesn't decide elections. He would LOSE the West and Northeast, which more than wipes out the votes he would keep from the industrial Midwest.
Ummmm I beg to differ. Imidazol97's state decides the election!!
Plus, what are those disgruntled Midwesterners going to do...vote Republican? The Republicans aren't going to advocate tariffs.
Well that isn't what Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul, said. Both said they would level the playing field when it comes to trade. Even Reagan, as much as I hate him implemented tariffs to protect some businesses. Michigan, has voted republican several times in it's history and my UAW Great Uncle who retired from GM, just a few years ago as a tool and die maker is a right-winger but more along the lines of Hunter or Paul.
People like their Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, Benzes, etc. They don't want to be "protected" from the products and ideas offered by these companies. It's time for the UAW to accept this and move on.
We like or GM's, Fords, Chrysler's also thus you can buy your imports but it might cost you a few bucks more if we had to use a tariff to resolve the currency manipulation by the Asians. European built automobiles aren't as much of a concern because their currency is worth more than ours last time I heard.
I didn't vote for Obama, but I certainly don't expect him to "structure" the economy to create good jobs. Companies and customers structure the economy through their individual decisions. What you want is for the government to ignore or thwart those decisions to protect one small group of workers - the UAW.
I want the government to protect not just the UAW workers but also Bill the screw machine shop owner that makes parts for corporations. I want small business protected from shoddy Chinese made products. I hate China, and what they represent. I will never get behind a country who uses slave and child labor to work in sweat shops. If you can openly support that then I hope your maker has mercy on your soul!!!
If the UAW and GM want to enjoy the fruits of good jobs in a growing economy, I'd suggest that they work together to build vehicles that people want to buy at prices that earn GM a profit. That route is likely to be more productive, as opposed to waiting for government handouts and blaming currency manipulation, Wal-Mart, Consumer Reports or George W. Bush.
They do but like every other manufactuer in this country well they are facing a economic recession. GM, is still the number one seller of vehicles in this country and #2 in the world. I don't see Toyota, holding on to the #1 spot for very long though.
They were armored plated military spec H-1's pal. We had a SAW 249 or MK-19 mounted in the turret and more rounds of ammo than a battalion of troops!!! I loved it when somebody from the public showed up and you could see the amazement in their eyes of how impressed they were with our protective force. We were the best civilian protective force in the world and they still are.
I have not sold any cars today. It was cold and rainy this morning but now it's cleared up and is sunny. I'm waiting on a couple of prospects that said they were coming in today to see me to show up!!!
"I do feel that any group of employees should be able to form a union. Example, if you company cuts wages by 25%, the employees should be allowed to unionize and strike"
Yes, but if the workers have the right to strike, then you also acknowledge that the company has the absolute right to shut down and move away, whether to a RTW state or out of the country...no worker should have any right greater then the employer...no law can FORCE an employer to stay open in that location...if the worker can strike for any reason, then the company can shut down and move for any reason...
Rocky: taking away the ability to have a Right to Work state would be an extreme violation of state's rights, IMO...just because YOU think every donut dipper at Dunkin Donuts should be unionized and paid $35/hour to sell a donut, does not make any sense...if Obama/Congress took away the RTW states, you might see an open revolution...
Interesting how you have no regard for WalMart greeters, usually elderly, who may use that job to stay in touch with the "outside world" so they are not marginalized by staying home alone...if you unionize them, or try to, WM will simply drop them, as they are not worth $15/hour for what they do...
You just cannot see that many unions serve only to raise the cost of ANYTHING, which means that the cost of living for me and everybody else simply goes up for the same item or service we could have bought cheaper...UAW has simply destroyed the Midwest (auto plants, steel plants in Gary, public workers in Detroit, etc) and now you want to bless the South by unionizing us, too...no thanks...just keep selling your cars up there, while GM still makes them...
I find it interesting that Democrats are scared to death of the secret ballot for unionization...everything else in this nation is by secret ballot, but only the union, and the worthless Democrats, want to take away that secret ballot...rocky, can we make your vote in the national elections public, too???...would you mind if Beth had her rights to privacy taken away by some Democrat who thought the world should know who she votes for???...do you have ANY principles at all???even if you are rabidly pro-union, doesn't the thought of removing a secret ballot simply scare you as a loss of privacy???
"I have not sold any cars today. It was cold and rainy this morning but now it's cleared up and is sunny"...rocky, remember, you are in Michigan...two seasons...July and Winter...winter will not go away until July 1...
It is cold here too. Sorry to say Rocky, but GM will not be #1 in world sales again in our lifetime. Maybe when cars can run on electricity GM will have the leg up. Is it really best to be the biggest? Isn't the most profitable and best car maker a better honor.
Sorry for the double post...it looked like the green thing on the bottom of the screen had not engaged, so I double clicked it...now it shoes twice...sorry
I find it interesting that Democrats are scared to death of the secret ballot for unionization...everything else in this nation is by secret ballot, but only the union, and the worthless Democrats, want to take away that secret ballot...rocky, can we make your vote in the national elections public, too???...would you mind if Beth had her rights to privacy taken away by some Democrat who thought the world should know who she votes for???...do you have ANY principles at all???even if you are rabidly pro-union, doesn't the thought of removing a secret ballot simply scare you as a loss of privacy???
Ummmm wasn't it the republicans who passed the Patriot Act, a law that has violated more right to privacy than any other law passed in government history. Nobody said under EFCA, that you have to have a open ballot. You can choose either or thus don't let Rush, fool you into thinking you only have one option!!! :confuse:
The old lady should be playing BINGO and CARDS with her other old friends not getting dirty looks and freezing to death so she can pay for her pills that keep her alive.
rockylee: Ummmm I beg to differ. Imidazol97's state decides the election!!
That was one state. Any candidate that advocates tariffs on new vehicles will lose entire REGIONS of the country. There are more electoral votes in the West (especially with California) and Northeast (New York and Pennsylvania).
rockylee: Well that isn't what Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul, said. Both said they would level the playing field when it comes to trade. Even Reagan, as much as I hate him implemented tariffs to protect some businesses. Michigan, has voted republican several times in it's history and my UAW Great Uncle who retired from GM, just a few years ago as a tool and die maker is a right-winger but more along the lines of Hunter or Paul.
And their success in the presidential primaries should tell you how much chance they have of winning the Republican nomination, let alone the presidency.
rockylee: We like or GM's, Fords, Chrysler's also thus you can buy your imports but it might cost you a few bucks more if we had to use a tariff to resolve the currency manipulation by the Asians.
We aren't going to pay more for imports to keep the UAW in business. If it wants to hold on to those jobs, I'd suggest that it work with the companies to do what it takes to make them profitable. If that involves concessions or changes in work rules - too bad.
They have no right to our business, and they have no right to expect us to make sacrifices so that anyone can keep buying a new Chevy or Dodge. This may be a foreign concept for the UAW, but it has to EARN our business.
The currency manipulation myth has been debunked numerous times. It is a red herring argument. The domestics have lost market share regardless of the value of the yen compared to the value of the dollar.
That isn't the reason for Toyota's success.
rockylee: European built automobiles aren't as much of a concern because their currency is worth more than ours last time I heard.
The European manufacturers have still been stealing sales from the domestics. Which further proves that "currency manipulation" as a reason for the success of the foreign nameplates is a red herring.
Maybe it has something to do with more focused vehicles, a history of better engineering and innovation (the domestics are getting better here), more consistent model offerings (how many midsize nameplates has Chevrolet used since Honda introduced the Accord in 1976?) and more consistent marketing efforts.
rockylee: I want the government to protect not just the UAW workers but also Bill the screw machine shop owner that makes parts for corporations. I want small business protected from shoddy Chinese made products. I hate China, and what they represent. I will never get behind a country who uses slave and child labor to work in sweat shops. If you can openly support that then I hope your maker has mercy on your soul!!!
Except that no Chinese vehicles are sold here. Please explain how sanctions against China are going to help the domestic auto industry, given that its strongest competitors are based in Germany, Japan and South Korea.
rockylee: They do but like every other manufactuer in this country well they are facing a economic recession. GM, is still the number one seller of vehicles in this country and #2 in the world. I don't see Toyota, holding on to the #1 spot for very long though.
GM was losing money even before the current recession. It wasn't a viable company even before the economic downturn began last year. It was losing money in a market that bought 17 million vehicles. That figure was inflated by easy credit and fleet sales. How will GM make money in a market well below 17 million (even after it recovers from this year's doldrums)?
Being number one doesn't mean much if the company is losing money hand-over-fist selling those vehicles. Toyota could cut prices by 40 percent and drive GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan and maybe Honda out of business. It would be number one in sales throughout the world. It would also wreck its balance sheet.
IIRC, Malden Mills was not a union shop. He paid the employees out of the kindness of his heart. Lawrence Mass is a very depressed area, with a lot of minorities ( asians and hispanics). By no means were these employees getting rich making this stuff. Malden Mills was undercut by foreign competition.
Of course, maybe you'd rather we work for THIS as$&*l#:
That guy belongs not in a prison but in a concentration camp with me as his corrections officer and I'd take great satisfaction in torturing him like he did his workers every day!!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
The claim is, there are 1000s of such operations in cities like LA, NYC and Chicago. A big share of the 20-30 million illegals must be working somewhere. Then when the Sheriff in Phoenix tries to crack down on these operations the LEFT tries to stop him. Sheriff Joe is a hero for doing what the Feds have failed to do.
How many jobs are lost to legitimate citizens by these criminals sneaking into the USA. How many UAW members are illegal? EFCA will make it even easier for illegals to get Union jobs. Hand someone a Union card that does not read English. Tell him or her to sign for MORE money. Then the Union will have to protect his job when he is found out to be here illegally.
are you saying we should have bailed out the dot coms?
Prior to the dot com bust the FED was raising interest rates. To avoid the impact on the economy they decided to lower interest rates and thus created the housing bubble. So in effect they did bail out the economy as a whole at the risk of future inflation. Unfortunately, interest rates are near zero and thus there is no FED tool and or policy to use. Fiscal policy is the only option.
I can assure you of one thing. Inflation will dampen/hamper any recovery and a smart man would prepare for it. Just because your getting 20% returns on savings/CDs doesn't mean that you are gaining purchasing power and or getting wealthier. Because the price of your home doubles, doesn't mean that your making money either. Because to replace that home you would need that same amount you sold it for. Just some food for thought.
Except that no Chinese vehicles are sold here. Please explain how sanctions against China are going to help the domestic auto industry, given that its strongest competitors are based in Germany, Japan and South Korea.
You can't see that far into the future? The very near future? Don't blimk!!!
The government wants to cut the number of major Chinese auto groups to 10 or fewer from 14, and wants two or three megaproducers with annual output of more than two million vehicles each, the reports said. SAIC Motor's production was 1.7 million vehicles in 2008, compared with 8.2 million at Toyota.
Things might be looking dreary back at home, but Detroit, Mich.-based General Motors may find that its prospects in China, the current darling of the global marketplace, are a little rosier.
Dallas, I don't get it? So China buys all of our Buicks, and we get to buy t-shirts for them on the cheap, yet that is a bad thing? :confuse: You should be more worried about Mexico. A lot of non-union labor down there and it is a short drive to the US. Why aren't you worried about Canada? :sick:
a lot depends on what everyone else is doing. lots of people have seen 40% of their 401k's go away. That doesn't mix well with inflation. Today they warned of a bond bubble. On the other hand, I have been getting just tiny interest on my savings. One 401k pays me 0.2%. How do I get in on the bond bubble?
Comments
(Side comment: you guys are making me work hard to keep up with all this posting...don't y'all know by now that MY opinions are worth reading and analyzing, while all the rest is just...filler???...:):):):):)...)
rocky, if the gov't does not "let" them go belly up (I still maintain Ch 11, not Ch 7 liquidation) then what happens if the market buys fewer and fewer of their cars???...do you actually maintain that the lines should keep making cars that sit in parking lots just to keep people busy???...does the UAW think that this is the road to the future???...do you???
Remember the Cimarron! :lemon:
Tue Mar 24, 2009 at 12:52:48 PM PDT
In one of the most dramatic and specific responses by a corporation to the potential passing of the Employee Free Choice Act, FedEx has made specific threats of drastically cutting capital expenditure should the legislation pass:
The Memphis, Tenn., company has exercised an option to buy 15 B777F planes from Boeing Corp. and has an option to buy an additional 15 planes, Mr. Lane said. But in exercising its option on the first 15, FedEx has obtained contract language that would allow it to cancel the order should Congress pass the law. FedEx would likely obtain similar conditions for the purchase of the other 15, the company said.
While devious, I think FedEx's move here is brilliant in combating the pro-EFCA arguments. A company actually threatening to cut capital expenditures, when we really do need companies to be spending to avoid more layoffs and to create jobs.
If FedEx were to decide to decline their options on these 30 new jets, that would be over $7.5 billion in revenue that Boeing would be short. This would inevitably lead to Boeing outsourcing more and hurting the http://, which has already been taking hits as of late. Basically, pitting union against union as well as union against management.
EFCA is an ill conceived idea that throws Democracy OUT THE WINDOW. Not to mention the 1000s of jobs that will be lost. This report from no less than the very liberal rag:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/24/712521/-FedEx-threatens-cuts-if-EFCA-pas- ses
I do feel that any group of employees should be able to form a union. Example, if you company cuts wages by 25%, the employees should be allowed to unionize and strike.
"While union bosses disdain secret ballots at America’s workplaces, they require them for internal elections.
Big Labor and its Democratic allies have pressed secret ballots in Mexico while pummeling them here. “Why can’t Mexican workers have the right to secret ballot elections to vote for any union?” then-UAW president Stephen Yokich asked Mexico’s former president Vicente Fox in July 2001. The UAW, naturally, would deny American workers this right"
Big Labor’s hypocrisy no longer secret (Boston Herald)
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
I totally agree and have spent time organizing for the Alaska Teamsters. What I object to is this lame idea that you get 51% of the employees to sign cards and you are instantly unionized. It is so open ended for abuse. Unions like the UAW would have no problem sending some of their gorillas to your home and requesting you sign. I would not want some goon harassing me to sign a Union card.
The real downside is it will push even more companies to right to work states. So then you have a union with maybe half the people paying dues. That is why the UAW never wastes a lot of time organizing in RTW states. Or you sign a card to get the Union in and decide you don't like being a member. You can quit paying dues and still get the wages negotiated by the Union.
People that are pushing for this are really clueless as to what big corporations will do. This will not get Walmart organized. Even if it did there would be massive layoffs. They are NOT going to pay some 70 year old UAW retiree $12 per hour to greet people. Just will NOT happen.
-Rocky
The UAW is just to powerful; kind of like the Baseball Players Union. The UAW is so focused on the bottom line that it is hurting GM and the UAW's long term.
Just like the Players Union wanted to protect steroid using players, but did not care to thing of the damage it would do to the game and player reputations.
And don't get me wrong, I want GM to survive. I just want to see an efficient GM that doesn't get cheap on their cars.
Hopefully one day I will own a Corvette Z06 and by then it won't have a cheap interior and Cobalt steering wheel. :lemon:
-Rocky
There are laws against that. The NLRB will prosecute a company that fires someone because of Union affiliation. Currently it takes 1/3rd of the employees to sign cards that are SECRET. So the company does not know who you are. Then the NLRB sets up an election and you have to have a simple majority of the employees vote in a secret ballot that they would like to become Union. So if it does not pass the company cannot put you on the LIST. With EFCA all you need is 51% of the employees to sign a card that is NOT secret to become Union. Now the company knows who are the trouble makers. I think it is VERY bad for Unions that are really legitimate. I don't include the UAW in that group. They have been on a slow ride down hill since 1970. The Teamsters who would like the easy road with EFCA as well, signed up 68,000 new members in 2008. That was without EFCA. Just got my Teamster magazine yesterday.
Do you really believe that he is going tell moderates in places like suburban Philadelphia and Los Angeles that he is going to restrict their right to buy a Toyota or BMW, or make it more expensive to purchase through tariffs, to save the UAW, GM and Chrysler?
He's a guaranteed one-term president if he does take that route.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Malden Mills was the las textile mill in New England; they made fleece. After a fire that destroyed the factory, the owner tried to build a bigger factory at the same sight.
Guess what, Malden Mills went bankrupt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malden_Mills
“We are writing to encourage you to use the secret ballot in all union recognition elections,” 16 House Democrats argued in a 2001 letter to Mexican authorities. Among the letter’s signers was EFCA sponsor Rep. George Miller (D-Calif.).
So, why do union bosses fear secret ballots? They complain that anti-labor CEOs intimidate workers during union drives, even as card-check campaigners spook employees.
Having been on the losing side a few times in Union elections. I can say that the Union does as much schmoozing as management. The Teamsters would have big fancy BBQs with free booze and food. The management would offer bonuses and higher wages. So those elections no matter how they turned out were good for the working man. I am personally thankful that my career included 3 different Unions over 46 years. I sure as anything did not always agree with the way the Unions were run.
How would you suggest the UAW go about unionizing the foreign company's plants such as Georgetown? What kind of schmoozing would be effective?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am glad you brought that up. It is a perfect example of a Federal Agency that is inept at doing the job they get paid for. I can tell you that most government agencies are run about the same. And to think they can run Health Care is a total joke. Let me put it more succinctly. The government makes the UAW look half way decent.
As far as all the charges, you should have let the company fire the fat employees as they should not be allowed to protect our Nuclear Defenses. People doing terrorist patrol should be in TOP condition. Not 300 lb donut munchers. Another case of Unions going to far in protecting worthless employees.
Unionizing a company without some history of low pay and benefits is very tough. When the Honda workers see what is happening to the UAW workers it is not a picture they want a part of. If GM goes down and Honda tries to make drastic cuts in pay, the UAW or some legitimate Union may have a chance. I would start with the Electricians in the plant.
The Midwest doesn't decide elections. He would LOSE the West and Northeast, which more than wipes out the votes he would keep from the industrial Midwest.
Plus, what are those disgruntled Midwesterners going to do...vote Republican? The Republicans aren't going to advocate tariffs.
People like their Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, Benzes, etc. They don't want to be "protected" from the products and ideas offered by these companies. It's time for the UAW to accept this and move on.
rockylee: I guarantee you millions of people will be pissed off if he doesn't structure this economy to create good paying jobs.
I didn't vote for Obama, but I certainly don't expect him to "structure" the economy to create good jobs. Companies and customers structure the economy through their individual decisions. What you want is for the government to ignore or thwart those decisions to protect one small group of workers - the UAW.
If the UAW and GM want to enjoy the fruits of good jobs in a growing economy, I'd suggest that they work together to build vehicles that people want to buy at prices that earn GM a profit. That route is likely to be more productive, as opposed to waiting for government handouts and blaming currency manipulation, Wal-Mart, Consumer Reports or George W. Bush.
-Rocky
Ummmm I beg to differ. Imidazol97's state decides the election!!
Plus, what are those disgruntled Midwesterners going to do...vote Republican? The Republicans aren't going to advocate tariffs.
Well that isn't what Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul, said. Both said they would level the playing field when it comes to trade. Even Reagan, as much as I hate him implemented tariffs to protect some businesses. Michigan, has voted republican several times in it's history and my UAW Great Uncle who retired from GM, just a few years ago as a tool and die maker is a right-winger but more along the lines of Hunter or Paul.
People like their Toyotas, Hondas, BMWs, Benzes, etc. They don't want to be "protected" from the products and ideas offered by these companies. It's time for the UAW to accept this and move on.
We like or GM's, Fords, Chrysler's also thus you can buy your imports but it might cost you a few bucks more if we had to use a tariff to resolve the currency manipulation by the Asians. European built automobiles aren't as much of a concern because their currency is worth more than ours last time I heard.
I didn't vote for Obama, but I certainly don't expect him to "structure" the economy to create good jobs. Companies and customers structure the economy through their individual decisions. What you want is for the government to ignore or thwart those decisions to protect one small group of workers - the UAW.
I want the government to protect not just the UAW workers but also Bill the screw machine shop owner that makes parts for corporations. I want small business protected from shoddy Chinese made products. I hate China, and what they represent. I will never get behind a country who uses slave and child labor to work in sweat shops. If you can openly support that then I hope your maker has mercy on your soul!!!
If the UAW and GM want to enjoy the fruits of good jobs in a growing economy, I'd suggest that they work together to build vehicles that people want to buy at prices that earn GM a profit. That route is likely to be more productive, as opposed to waiting for government handouts and blaming currency manipulation, Wal-Mart, Consumer Reports or George W. Bush.
They do but like every other manufactuer in this country well they are facing a economic recession. GM, is still the number one seller of vehicles in this country and #2 in the world. I don't see Toyota, holding on to the #1 spot for very long though.
-Rocky
I have not sold any cars today. It was cold and rainy this morning but now it's cleared up and is sunny. I'm waiting on a couple of prospects that said they were coming in today to see me to show up!!!
-Rocky
Yes, but if the workers have the right to strike, then you also acknowledge that the company has the absolute right to shut down and move away, whether to a RTW state or out of the country...no worker should have any right greater then the employer...no law can FORCE an employer to stay open in that location...if the worker can strike for any reason, then the company can shut down and move for any reason...
Rocky: taking away the ability to have a Right to Work state would be an extreme violation of state's rights, IMO...just because YOU think every donut dipper at Dunkin Donuts should be unionized and paid $35/hour to sell a donut, does not make any sense...if Obama/Congress took away the RTW states, you might see an open revolution...
Interesting how you have no regard for WalMart greeters, usually elderly, who may use that job to stay in touch with the "outside world" so they are not marginalized by staying home alone...if you unionize them, or try to, WM will simply drop them, as they are not worth $15/hour for what they do...
You just cannot see that many unions serve only to raise the cost of ANYTHING, which means that the cost of living for me and everybody else simply goes up for the same item or service we could have bought cheaper...UAW has simply destroyed the Midwest (auto plants, steel plants in Gary, public workers in Detroit, etc) and now you want to bless the South by unionizing us, too...no thanks...just keep selling your cars up there, while GM still makes them...
I find it interesting that Democrats are scared to death of the secret ballot for unionization...everything else in this nation is by secret ballot, but only the union, and the worthless Democrats, want to take away that secret ballot...rocky, can we make your vote in the national elections public, too???...would you mind if Beth had her rights to privacy taken away by some Democrat who thought the world should know who she votes for???...do you have ANY principles at all???even if you are rabidly pro-union, doesn't the thought of removing a secret ballot simply scare you as a loss of privacy???
Is it really best to be the biggest? Isn't the most profitable and best car maker a better honor.
(Actually this place is out by the dumpster most days. :P )
Ummmm wasn't it the republicans who passed the Patriot Act, a law that has violated more right to privacy than any other law passed in government history.
Nobody said under EFCA, that you have to have a open ballot. You can choose either or thus don't let Rush, fool you into thinking you only have one option!!! :confuse:
The old lady should be playing BINGO and CARDS with her other old friends not getting dirty looks and freezing to death so she can pay for her pills that keep her alive.
-Rocky
-Rocky
That was one state. Any candidate that advocates tariffs on new vehicles will lose entire REGIONS of the country. There are more electoral votes in the West (especially with California) and Northeast (New York and Pennsylvania).
rockylee: Well that isn't what Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul, said. Both said they would level the playing field when it comes to trade. Even Reagan, as much as I hate him implemented tariffs to protect some businesses. Michigan, has voted republican several times in it's history and my UAW Great Uncle who retired from GM, just a few years ago as a tool and die maker is a right-winger but more along the lines of Hunter or Paul.
And their success in the presidential primaries should tell you how much chance they have of winning the Republican nomination, let alone the presidency.
rockylee: We like or GM's, Fords, Chrysler's also thus you can buy your imports but it might cost you a few bucks more if we had to use a tariff to resolve the currency manipulation by the Asians.
We aren't going to pay more for imports to keep the UAW in business. If it wants to hold on to those jobs, I'd suggest that it work with the companies to do what it takes to make them profitable. If that involves concessions or changes in work rules - too bad.
They have no right to our business, and they have no right to expect us to make sacrifices so that anyone can keep buying a new Chevy or Dodge. This may be a foreign concept for the UAW, but it has to EARN our business.
The currency manipulation myth has been debunked numerous times. It is a red herring argument. The domestics have lost market share regardless of the value of the yen compared to the value of the dollar.
That isn't the reason for Toyota's success.
rockylee: European built automobiles aren't as much of a concern because their currency is worth more than ours last time I heard.
The European manufacturers have still been stealing sales from the domestics. Which further proves that "currency manipulation" as a reason for the success of the foreign nameplates is a red herring.
Maybe it has something to do with more focused vehicles, a history of better engineering and innovation (the domestics are getting better here), more consistent model offerings (how many midsize nameplates has Chevrolet used since Honda introduced the Accord in 1976?) and more consistent marketing efforts.
rockylee: I want the government to protect not just the UAW workers but also Bill the screw machine shop owner that makes parts for corporations. I want small business protected from shoddy Chinese made products. I hate China, and what they represent. I will never get behind a country who uses slave and child labor to work in sweat shops. If you can openly support that then I hope your maker has mercy on your soul!!!
Except that no Chinese vehicles are sold here. Please explain how sanctions against China are going to help the domestic auto industry, given that its strongest competitors are based in Germany, Japan and South Korea.
rockylee: They do but like every other manufactuer in this country well they are facing a economic recession. GM, is still the number one seller of vehicles in this country and #2 in the world. I don't see Toyota, holding on to the #1 spot for very long though.
GM was losing money even before the current recession. It wasn't a viable company even before the economic downturn began last year. It was losing money in a market that bought 17 million vehicles. That figure was inflated by easy credit and fleet sales. How will GM make money in a market well below 17 million (even after it recovers from this year's doldrums)?
Being number one doesn't mean much if the company is losing money hand-over-fist selling those vehicles. Toyota could cut prices by 40 percent and drive GM, Ford, Chrysler, Nissan and maybe Honda out of business. It would be number one in sales throughout the world. It would also wreck its balance sheet.
So california fell apart when the dot coms busted.
are you saying we should have bailed out the dot coms?
Of course, maybe you'd rather we work for THIS as$&*l#:
http://www.diggersrealm.com/mt/archives/002101.html
-Rocky
How many jobs are lost to legitimate citizens by these criminals sneaking into the USA. How many UAW members are illegal? EFCA will make it even easier for illegals to get Union jobs. Hand someone a Union card that does not read English. Tell him or her to sign for MORE money. Then the Union will have to protect his job when he is found out to be here illegally.
Prior to the dot com bust the FED was raising interest rates. To avoid the impact on the economy they decided to lower interest rates and thus created the housing bubble. So in effect they did bail out the economy as a whole at the risk of future inflation. Unfortunately, interest rates are near zero and thus there is no FED tool and or policy to use. Fiscal policy is the only option.
I can assure you of one thing. Inflation will dampen/hamper any recovery and a smart man would prepare for it. Just because your getting 20% returns on savings/CDs doesn't mean that you are gaining purchasing power and or getting wealthier. Because the price of your home doubles, doesn't mean that your making money either. Because to replace that home you would need that same amount you sold it for. Just some food for thought.
Loosing culture leads to loosing cars.
You can't see that far into the future? The very near future? Don't blimk!!!
The government wants to cut the number of major Chinese auto groups to 10 or fewer from 14, and wants two or three megaproducers with annual output of more than two million vehicles each, the reports said. SAIC Motor's production was 1.7 million vehicles in 2008, compared with 8.2 million at Toyota.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/03/09/business/chiauto.php
Things might be looking dreary back at home, but Detroit, Mich.-based General Motors may find that its prospects in China, the current darling of the global marketplace, are a little rosier.
http://www.forbes.com/2006/01/05/gm-china-vw-cx_po_0105autofacescan05.html
You should be more worried about Mexico. A lot of non-union labor down there and it is a short drive to the US. Why aren't you worried about Canada? :sick:
Made in China and certainly not good paying UAW jobs.
we get to buy t-shirts for them on the cheap
Do we get the Walmart jobs too?
You should be more worried about Mexico.
Mexico was all for globalization, until they saw those companies moving overseas.