gagrice: "So a Union can be a good thing IF they understand that the company is in business to make money, and not just provide jobs. The UAW Leaders or rank and file do not seem to understand that principle"...you do not have to be caught between me and rocky, as you and your union understand capitalism whereas our friend has no idea...while I confess I am generally anti-union, gagrice, you have opened my eyes to the fact that there ARE some unions who understand that the company has to make money in order for the jobs to be there...IMO, that is not a cutthroat union like the UAW, who, as long as ONE floorsweeper is left making $35/hour, even tho millions are no longer employed, they will tout that they have done their job protecting the last remaining UAW worker job...and he can turn the light off when he leaves the plant...
rocky: "Buyers wanting a car today want to test drive, touch, feel, the vehicle that they are seriously considering spending there hard earned dollars on. It really stinks!!!"...I am surprised you seem baffled that someone ready to buy a car today wants to see it today and actually touch the 2nd largest purchase in their lives, next to a home (altho, with the Democrats running Detroit, it won't be long before a Detroit home will cost less than my 4 year old Crown Vic, and we know how they depreciate)...
As far as dealer trade, why should they have to wait while you find the blue one they want, when they can drive around and find it themselves and maybe get a better price from the delaer who bought it from the manufacturer...that may be a courtesy you offer, but maybe the other dealer has had it on their lot long enough that they will deal better and lower than you...not a grinder, mind you, but if a car sat on the other dealer's lot for, say, 9 months, they may go a lot lower than you in order to move it...face it, rocky...for once it is a BUYER's market and we want to take full advantage of it...wouldn't you???
UAW is could care less about GM. Why do you think the difference between new GM employees and 20+ workers is so high? Every time the UAW makes a contention they take it away from the newer workers. UAW is greedy and just looking to keep there standard of living. I'm glad I live in New England, where everyone has high speed internet and NO ONE drives GMs. The Detroit 3 is already in the process of moving production to Mexico.
Mercedes still owns about 20% of Chrysler. I would say getting Jeep would be a fair trade. A Wrangler would be the only Jeep I would ever buy. Then probably used unless they put a small 4 cylinder diesel in that model. I would say that at this point in time, all 3 of the Domestics could close up shop and it would not make any difference in sales over the next 3 years.
I was talking to my bank manager that used to be WaMu, now Chase. He said they are being much more prudent about who they lend money to. This whole mess in the country boils down to piss poor lending procedures and the greed that drove them to doing so.
The reason people cannot borrow money is because they are poor risks. No one should lend more than 80% max on a new car. And then only to people with a history of paying their bills.
Rocky should be happy I DO NOT blame the banking issues on the UAW.
I am generally anti-union, gagrice, you have opened my eyes to the fact that there ARE some unions who understand that the company has to make money in order for the jobs to be there
Just to prove what I am saying. The Alaska Teamsters during the building of the Alaska Pipeline was investing Pension fund money into property that was leased to some of the companies we had contracts with. The Governor fearing we would have too much control pushed the Union to invest more out of Alaska. We bought a huge tract of land outside of Palm Springs called Indian Wells. You may know the rest of the story. That investment has netted our Pension Fund in excess of $400 million. Not bad for a Union with about 12,000 employees. Our leaders unlike Reuther and the UAW were convinced that capitalism was the only way freedom works for individuals. That is not to say that it is not abused. But then a quick look at the USSR will give a glimpse of what Socialism becomes in a very short amount of time. Reuther and his vision for America was very much like the USSR that he felt was a good model. Being a slave to the UAW or State is no better than being a slave to a corporation.
... While the retirees are somewhat vulnerable, they did benefit from a very lucrative job for 25 years or more. It could be worse....
That 25 year figure shows a major part of the problem. Name me another industry (besides government) that you can retire with 25 years? At my company the earliest you can retire is 58 regardless of years of service. I had 40 years when I reached that mark last year. Luckily I have a job that I really like, a boss that leaves me alone, make a decent wage, and so have no intention of retiring - golf is for old guys :shades: .
The point here is that part of problem with the D3's/UAW's legacy costs is the fact that workers were able to retire at 55 or less. That means that the number of retirees that has to be supported is much larger than it would have been if there had been a minimum retirement age of, say 58, regardless of years of service. This is mostly a UAW caused problem, but also one of management for giving in to UAW's unreasonable demands. It was easier in the short term to agree to lucrative retirement benefits, including health care, because 1) it made the short term problem (wages) more tractable and 2) pushed the real problem off into the future. Well, the future is now!
That 25 year figure shows a major part of the problem. Name me another industry (besides government) that you can retire with 25 years? At my company the earliest you can retire is 58 regardless of years of service.
Heck, I think the government has even gotten away from that. Now it may be different with state and local governments and such, but the federal gov't started phasing out that sweet retirement plan of theirs back around 1984. Anyone hired after then pays into social security, has the option of paying into a 401k-like plan, but they won't get a retirement.
And I think even under the old system, where you got a pension, you still had to be at least 55 to start drawing that pension. I think you'd hit your max at 40 years of service, that max would be something like 60% of the average of your 5 best years.
GM management is attrocious. Back during the last long recession, GM had a chance to get tough with the unions. Around '92, GM was not selling any cars either. When the unions got in a tiffy GM conceded instead of playing tough, and they are paying for it today. Also, Rick Wagoner may be one of the worste CEO's in history. GM has lost under ever year of his management. Even while selling bloated SUV's GM could not make a profit. When GM was sitting on the EV1 he could see the value of investing the technology into hybrids. Instead they dumped money into Escalades and paying the Unions. The idiacricy of GM goes back years; bad company culture plain and simple. http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/21/magazines/fortune/taylor_generalmotors.fortune/i- - ndex.htm
THAT THE PRESIDENT'S ADMINISTRATION WILL GIVE OUT TAXPAYERS MONEY WHEN BOTH GM AND CHRYSLER HAVE NOT RECEIVED CONCESSIONS FROM THE UAW AND BONDHOLDER IS A DISGRACE.
Yes Rocky you should have taken the interview and the job if you got it at the Hyundai dealership. There are going to be a lot of car sales people looking for jobs at other dealerships before this is over. All D3 dealerships are in trouble and will be for years to come, because for years they sold crap cars and expect people to jump on the bandwagon when the new cars are much better. Yes their newer vehicles are better, but they have to win the peoples confidence back and will take as long as Hyundai did after the Pony and Stellar crap. The public is fed up with the cars that broke down and so many bad dealerships that can't fix them and treat you like crap after you have bought the car. The only way GM can keep going is to get use to being number 3 or 4 in sales until they prove their cars are as good or better then the imports and make some of their dealerships treat people right.
Yes there are import dealerships that screw you for every dollar they can, but thankfully you aren't in as often as the D3. Between management, quality, some lousy dealerships and the UAW greed, no wonder they are going down the drain. Go to Hyundai while you can and you may even like their cars after awhile, but at least you will be making a living.
Rocky should probably hang in at Chevy until the 7500 freebie GM cars are purchased. Here is a question: Will the average UAW golden parachute recipient buy a $25k car or take on an additional loan and get a Caddy or Denali?
The smart ones will get two Aveos for their $25K. So they have a backup when one is in the shop. :shades:
Or do what a friend of mine did with his $25k. He is typical UAW thinking by buying a GM Malibu and sold it a week later to a guy he knew for less money and went out and bought a Hyundai Sonota. He blamed GM for him losing his job and said he wouldn't drive their crap LOL. He figured they are going under so he took the buyout before being tossed out. He was making $35 dollars an hour driving a tote-motor delivering a skid of parts every ten minutes to different stations in the plant.
"He was making $35 dollars an hour driving a tote-motor delivering a skid of parts every ten minutes to different stations in the plant."
I think that says it all...you have bolstered my claim of $35/hour, and, for what???...pulling a "little red wagon" around behind him, like a child pulling a wagonload of stuff around his yard, except that the adult was on a motorized machine pulling something bigger than the wagon...
rocky: please explain to me how long it took to train this person to pull a pallet of parts behind them, and how much "skill" it takes to do this, since you keep telling me how "skilled" the folks are in Michigan and how dumb and ignorant these country Southern hicks are...this sounds like a job that takes 5 minutes to train, but 5 hours for the worker to learn the route and not get lost in the plant...and if supplied with a GPS, he can't even get lost in the plant, unless he is looking for the donuts in the Jobs Bank...you know, the place where he sits and gets paid to do even LESS than nothing, just in case an emergency arises and the OTHER guy who drives the toys doesn't show up (UAW absenteeism), and they have to call HIM in an emergency because SOMEONE "skilled" has to drive a pallet of parts around the plant...
rock, the more you talk about "skilled" labor that makes these cars, and the more people who post about what it is really like, makes me wonder just how you define "skilled" (well, he didn't drive the forklift into the bathroom today, so he must be our best forklift operator...let's make HIM the forklift steward...assuming he shows up five days in a row sober...in this union, highly unlikely)...your best bet is to stop trying to convince ANYONE of the skills to assemble these cars, because if skill was required, the illiterates would not be the ones hired...
And I KNOW about the illiterates, because I lived there for my ten years and saw it firsthand...
Like in the Wizard of OZ, the curtain is pulled back and all of your misconceptions (I assume yoyu aren't lying, you just have no real idea of what a "skill" really is) are being exposed for what they are...total misconceptions of what these people are...easily replaceable, 1 hour to train, unskilled labor that are probably being paid more than 5 times what the inherent value of their work is...they had it good for awhile, but that is simply OVER, because the other guys do it better, cheaper, and more efficient...and, they make it in America...
Oh, and about the fact that the profit goes back to japan...gagrice made the point that GM could not make money at the height of the SUV boom, when the profit per vehicle was $10,000...so, having the "profit" go back to GM probably did not do much for the shareholders, so if I owned GM stock, what would it have done for me???...even the instututions are wondering what to do with GM stock, and if they all do the prudent thing and dump it, shares will drop to about a nickel...and no, don't tell me it is the patriotic thing to do and just "hold" the stock...losing stocks should be dumped by everybody and anybody, only an idiot holds onto to a loser, saying "I lost my a**, but I feel good because GM is an American company"...
That goes back to taking control of my 401K and retirement...dump GM and buy what works, and an American auto company, sadly, ain't what works anymore...altho I do wonder if Ford may be worth buying soon, on a gamble...not now, this is a bear market rally that will crash again in a few months...when Ford is down to under a buck, it may pay to gamble...maybe a buck will become five in a year or 2...it worked back in the early 80s (altho I did not buy Ford or Chrysler at the time) and it may work now...
Daimler getting Jeep for their 20% of Chrysler would be odd, as it was Jeeps that helped us defeat the Germans in WWII, and now THEY would own it???
Last thought: "He blamed GM for him losing his job and said he wouldn't drive their crap"...he blamed GM but never looked in the mirror at who made that crap...and if HE called it crap, what am I to think???...please, rocky, what am I to think of a GM product if a GM employee calls his product crap???...you think YOU have any credibility left at all???...don't hold your breath...
You never did answer earlier...when is your divorce over so you can move on with Beth, the girl who will be selling Lexuses in the next two months??? :P
I beleive there are some "skills" involved in the automobile industry... but not the folks who run the machines nor the folks who assemble things.
EXAMPLE: I consider the folks that DESIGN an engine to be "skilled".... but the folks who BUILD that engine are just running machines which are programmed to build the internal engine parts. A monkey can be trained to "push the blue button when the yellow light goes on".... does that mean the monkey is "skilled"? (oh... the folks who PROGRAM the machines to build the parts may be skilled too)
The very purpose of the machines is to allow UNskilled workers to build a complex automoble. The UNskilled workers have been trained to think they are "skilled" thus they deserve a higher wage than burger-flippers. (Its all a big consparicy 8-) LOL)
The guy does not make $35 an/hr and is as fictious as the story behind it. I know you are one to believe everything you read or hear but as an attorney I thought you'd be a bit more objective or is your anger and hate blind any reality you had left??? :confuse:
The country is headed into the toilet. It isn't a good time at all to be selling cars period. I agree with you that if I was a buyer I'd like to see what I was buying before making a purchase decision. I just wished our owner and his son felt the same way as I and you do. I know we aren't as big as some of the other dealerships in the area but I do think we could use that to our advantage and be smarter than them. You can't order a one size fits all selecting vehicles with the same trim when peoples tastes vary. If you can land them on something close (trim level) to what they will end up buying and tell them you can get them there color choice by tomorrow well it would increase our sales volume as they will be able to feel out that specific vehicle. It is hard to have the customer drive a base model Malibu, and tell to just imagine what a loaded up one feels like. There is a huge difference between a 170 hp Malibu 4-cylinder and a loaded up V6 2LT or LTZ. I've had a dozen or more people want Duramax 3/4 ton pick-ups and we still don't have one. I can [non-permissible content removed] and complain about our inventory but I'm the new guy thus what do I know about cars, right??? I only watch them go to the next town or Beth's dealership to buy the one they want. :sick: I am going to call the Hyundai, dealership on Monday and schedule that interview. I might cross over to the dark side. The $25K buyout cash to be used on a new vehicle is pointless if we don't carry the right inventory for them. I can't take it anymore. I have a new Traverse, blocking my view of the lot and coworkers are griping at me for not watching the lot while they go have there smoke break or run off to eat and expect you to drop everything that you are working on. I've assumed more responsibility than I needed too because I'm trying to make our dealership successful. My only break is a 10 minute lunch or a quick read and post in this forum usually in between looking for cars to order off the auction. If they aren't willing to implement the change needed it affects my pay check. My sales manager has his hands tied I think personally regarding the new car inventory part. We don't have one show stopper car like a Cobalt SS or HHR SS or even a Vette, in our inventory to draw attention. If it was my dealership I'd have a couple of "Flashy Cars" standing high to draw attention instead of the gimmicky hoods opened up and balloons which are so 1970's and 80's.
I have said this before and I'll say it again that Hyundai, probably makes the best cars for the least amount of money on the market. The Genesis, is as well made as any Cadillac, Lexus, Mercedes, Acura, Lincoln, Infiniti, BMW, etc, etc, on the market. I do like the Hyundai, line-up but the bigger question is will I like the dealership and leadership??? My success is of course soley on me but if the enviroment and culture aren't a good fit well it isn't worth the risk. Beth, thinks I should of taken the interview and so as I said I'm going to give them a ring.
-Rocky
P.S. Do you and I agree on the inventory part??? Am I wrong for feeling the way I do because it is hurting my bottom line. I had a distant relative not buy from me because we had nothing like the vehicle they wanted.
Can a monkey run a screw machine??? Can a monkey repair a robot when it breaks down??? These are some of the skills you don't hear about when the machines are running right. The dumb hicks in the transplants have to call the marginally trained farm boy that they call a machine repairmen. The UAW workers fix the machines they work with when they break down and of course during complex situations a "real" machine repairmen will come to the rescue.
well i live in NH and i only buy GM or Ford...i work at factory that makes parts for the big 3...the globalization and offshoring jobs has really helped the US..helped us become biggest debtor nation in worlds history
i have 05 sunfire with the 2.2 ecotec engine with 80k on it...the car runs like a ferrari, ok, well maybe not but for a inexpensive car it runs like a top and burns no oil, of course i use platinum plugs and synthetic oil which doesnt hurt..i also have a 07 focus that is very roomy and trouble free, i also make some tranny parts for this car right in NH, not ------- korea or china....i paid 16k total for these 2 cars brand new , (6500 for pontiac, 9500$ for ford) with my 3k GM card discount...my old cavalier has 180k on it and still runs good....the ford is assembled in mich with a mi engine and transmission...i drove by the tonawanda NY engine plant 4 years ago that assembled the well respected ecotec...it seems like our once great country is at the abyss and i would like to see us keep as much mfg as possible here...i know the all involved have sinned in past (big 3 and union), but it is one of our last big industries left and nobody can say they havent improved...our mfg capacity helped win 2 world wars, now we would have to borrow the $$$ off china and have japan build it for us, pathetic
my wifes friends subie with 130k blew a motor this past week and yet my best friend never changes his oil unless i do it in his american cars(10k intervals) and his cars always run...my point is GM and co are pretty good now and the asian cos can make a lemon once in awhile too
My only break is a 10 minute lunch or a quick read and post in this forum
You need to get 33% of the crew to sign UAW cards and GO UNION!
Inventory is the catch 22 in your business. Too much and the overhead will bring the dealer down. Not enough and the customer goes elsewhere. It is hard for a buyer to negotiate for a car they cannot see and drive.
The dumb hicks in the transplants have to call the marginally trained farm boy that they call a machine repairmen. The UAW workers fix the machines they work with when they break down and of course during complex situations a "real" machine repairmen will come to the rescue.
That argument holds NO water. You are saying that the machinery in a HonToy or BMW factory fixes itself with a minimum down time? I don't think so. I worked with people in the oil fields for 25 years on very technical equipment. Most were hired out of the South for their training. For anyone to think that one state or area produces better workers than another is just a child's view. I think the example was back to a forklift operator making a huge wage. Whether $28 per hour as Oscar of Delphi fame or $35 per hour as posted earlier. That is at least twice as much as the job would be worth in CA where the cost of living is higher than Michigan. The gravy train is pulling out of Michigan. They have held the automakers hostage for too long, now it is payback time. My wife's nephew just got a job here in San Diego paying $21 per hour. He will be maintaining CH73 helicopters. He has all his certification through commercial jets. He was working in Ohio for an airline that went broke. That is a skilled job and he will be making more than he did in Ohio working on 737 engines.
Next you will tell me that fixing a robot is as skilled as repairing a jet engine on a commercial airliner. And carries the same responsibility.
Sorry Rocky it is a true story and this guy is one of the UAW workers that will never make it working for any company that doesn't have a union to protect his butt. He did make this deal with a relation of his on buying the car from him so he could use the money to buy anything but GM. His attitude towards employers and management is what they owe him for as little as possible work in return. There are too many union people that think this way and is screwing it up for the real workers. The unions were needed back when your family worked hard for their money, but instead of keeping a fair playing field they have got greedy and it's destroying a lot of companies. Most union leaders today are the bad workers of yesterday and to keep their jobs they have moved up the ladder to save their butts. They couldn't care less about the other employees except to fill their pockets along with the CEO's with the loans from the government, knowing when they go bankrupt then new people will take over, but they will be alright in the future money wise.
It sounds like your dealership can't afford or too scared to have the kind of money needed to have the inventory you are talking about sitting around. Other years they knew it would sale sooner or later, but now they could be stuck with it and you don't stay in business by losing money. All the D3 dealers are hurting, some a lot more then others for sure.
>The very purpose of the machines is to allow UNskilled workers to build a complex automoble. > the folks who PROGRAM the machines to build the parts may be skilled
Now somebody here is talking real. Thanks bpeebles.
That is the whole point of automation. 1. Higher quality 2. Higher productivity 3. Lower labor costs
For every 20 or so robots/cnc machine, you will need 1 or 2 CNC programmers. They are the skilled folks. The operators are just button monkeys. Same for the folks who fix those machines. You don't need 1 for every robot. you can have again 1/2 repairman for a gang of 20 robots or so.
>Inventory is the catch 22 in your business. Too much and the overhead will bring the dealer down. Not enough and the customer goes elsewhere. It is hard for a buyer to negotiate for a car they cannot see and drive.
Question for Gagrice: which airline went bankrupt? I recall months back someone trying to get local/state government funding for a service center at the local airport for large aircraft repairs.
This question is for Rocky and it's about the inventory.
Is the inventory not available from GM in the items that are the hot-lookers to have sitting in obvious places at the deal?
Or is the inventory too expensive for the deal to invest in currently due to shortage of funds with the other cars unsold that they already have?
Or is it that the inventory that's "hot' has been in but has been bought because it is the interesting vehicles to a certain part of the buyer market and they had money and the cars were sold.
Friday April 04, 2008, 11:19 PM CHICOPEE - Two weeks after promoting an expanding service here, Skybus Airlines announced Friday it would cease operations Saturday, the victim of rising fuel costs and a slowing economy.
The move threatens $15 million in state funds proposed for Westover Metropolitan Airport, Skybus' local departure point, said Chicopee Mayor Michael D. Bissonnette.
The Columbus, Ohio,-based airline opened in July, bringing the first regular passenger service to the airport since the late 1980s. With seats as low as $10, the no-frills service averaged 100 passengers per flight.
He took a job as a small aircraft mechanic after Skybus failed. He got laid off about 6 weeks ago and was offered a job out here. His wife is from San Diego so she was ready to go. They were all packed up and the guy out here emailed that the job offer was canceled. They came anyway and he was hired within a week at a better job at Miramar Marine base. He hated to leave his Buckeyes. But Ohio just does not have many opportunities for aircraft mechanics. He quit a Civil Service job at North Island to take the job at Skybus. He just could not stand being in CA away from home. I think he has gotten over that. Maybe. Rocky needs to pull the plug and get out of Michigan while he has a chance. The South has so much more to offer. He had a HIGH paying Union job with Pantex. He was not in a part of TX I would want to live. I like the Hill country of TX.
Hey Rocky, if you go to Hyundai they are at least growing their sales. Seems like a good strategic move to go to a brand that appears to be up and coming with some great cars.
Perhaps your dealership is struggling and doesn't want to carry higher-cost demo models? Or perhaps the clientele is struggling and the dealership management thinks they won't be able to afford the higher-content models?
The story is not true because I've read the wages and benefits part of the UAW contract. Have you??? His job isn't classified as skilled trades and is more likely to make $28 an/hr. My step-dad makes $33 an hour as a millwright which requires a journeymens card. He probably has the right to be upset but I disagree with him regarding where his anger should be aimed. He needs to direct his frusteration torwards the president and congress of this and the past for selling our citizens down the river. I know you love site specific examples of wages and benefits but the simple fact is the longer we keep driving down wages and benefits the longer it's going to take to recover from this turmoil. If people can't afford to buy stuff the wheels on this economy will come off. It is not going to get better unless we have growth and you can't grow the economy when the largest percentage of the population can't afford to spend. This is simple economics. The so-called skilled jobs of working on a jet engine is no more harder than making a car engine. I'm not your average dumb hick and understand that someone making a jet engine is doing the same job over and over again just like the guy making the car engine in a manufacturing plant. I know that somebody who has never worked inside a manufacturing plant thinks UAW, workers sweep floors and clean toilets while the non-union worker has the talent of a engineer because of the press reports Fixed News, makes up to have a hot story to push the buttons of the sheeple down in Georgia.
My owner has allowed his son to have total control of our new car inventory. He doesn't get it despite my best efforts. Most of the new car deals we do sell Marsha7, are dealer trades which = to just 6 this month thus far. I get phone-ups that ask me do you have such and such a car on your lot for me to come see??? What should I tell them??? Lie to them and say why sure we do??? They don't want to hear I can get it for you which brings me back to the root problem which I'm going to bring up next tomorrow morning. If they aren't willing to change then Rocky, needs to leave and try something else. I'm not working my [non-permissible content removed] off 6 days and 60 hours a week to make my draw check. I will sell Hyundai's or get a new job in a different field if I can find one. The sad thing is just a few problems are ruining a otherwise great work enviroment!!! :sick:
"GM and Chrysler are surviving on $17.4 billion in government loans. They have been hard hit by the economic downturn and the worst decline in auto sales in 27 years. GM is seeking $16.6 billion more; Chrysler wants $5 billion more.
Obama said the government would require a "set of sacrifices from all parties involved, management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody's gonna have to come to the table and say it's important for us to take serious restructuring steps now in order to preserve a brighter future down the road."
Both companies are trying to reduce their debt by two-thirds and persuade the United Auto Workers union to accept several cost-cutting measures."
Rockford, MI. is a more affluent clientel buddy. They can afford the higher end trim models with the bells and whistles. I'm not saying every customer wants these higher end models but it gives them a choice for the customer who might. It gives the customer options to see what a few more grand can get them. If they go to another dealer and look at the higher end model well they then have something to compare it too and while they are there why would they drive back to me and buy my car if they decide to go that route??? I think Marsha7, kinda understands what I'm saying. I'm going to try to arrange a interview for this next week with the Hyundai, dealership and yes they are a growing brand.
Well most of the hot cars imidazol97, have been sold and not replaces. We have a million Aveo's that nobody wants on our lot. The Impala, we have diversity only because not many people are buying them but I have had some lookers. Most of my new car calls are on Malibu's and Silverado's. I have not had one new car phone-up on an Aveo, Tahoe, or a Suburban. 80% of them are on the Silverado/Malibu. If I would of had Duramax 3/4 tons I would of sold quite a few of them. I got people calling me looking for pre-owned Duramax 3/4 tons also. We are getting a crap load of calls on cars we just don't have. Pre-owned 3-6 yr. old Tahoes, Yukons, have been pretty popular. I have looked at putting Saab's on the pre-owned lot because they make great used car buys but my boss has not purchaed a one of them thus I'm about sick and tired of trying. They will buy a 60K stripped down truck and think it will sell because they got a good deal on it. My point is further proven with this crew cab Colorado, they purchased that had scratches, dents, dings, and a headlamp assembly that was looser than a girl at the Bunny Ranch.
There are no high paying jobs to go too in other parts of the country. If you don't think I've looked well you are very mistaken. It isn't just the midwest that is suffering now. It is the whole country. I'm not going to move to Wyoming or North Dakota to work as a assistant manager at Arby's.
The money is in used cars and that is what we are selling but it isn't going to keep dealerships afloat just selling used cars. The UAW workers can't make people buy new cars. They can work for Chinese, wages and if people can't afford to buy new because they aren't willing to stretch there budget well there is nothing we can do about it. My instincts tell me to get out because only the strong in the big cities are going to survive.
bpeebles: "The very purpose of the machines is to allow UNskilled workers to build a complex automoble. The UNskilled workers have been trained to think they are "skilled" thus they deserve a higher wage than burger-flippers."...I only wish I could have said it better, but you have done a fine job...yes, I know there are truly skilled trades in the automakers who have immense skill at what they do...but that is not the assemblers who bolt it together, assuming they remember to tighten those bolts...I am amazed that someone who tightens a few bolts from the hood to the body thinks they have a skill...
rocky: I am absolutely with you on this one, believe it or not...it is up to the dealer to keep inventory, as if I want to see a blue Malibu I want to see it or go to the dealer who does...I appreciate that you have the decency not to lie to the customer, telling them you have a blue one, and then when they get there tell them you just sold it...
You need to consider Hyundai, if there is one selling cars near you...or, consider the (what is to you) unthinkable, and leave Michigan for better parts...just because you don't like Texas does not mean that another state may not be to your liking...YOU need to make a living, and if your current dealer employer has no decent cars to sell, you do NOT prove any high-handed principle by staying at a dying dealer just to sell Big 3 cars...
You may remember another principle...the concept of paying your bills and being an upright citizen...if selling Hyundais lets you pay your bills and improve your standard of living, you are NOT selling out America by selling a Hyundai to a customer...while you may be rah-rah for the UAW (and, yes, it will be your demise) it is not YOUR fault that Americans have deserted the Big 3 for cars they believe are better made...you can argue with me all you want, the market is slapping you in the face daily, confirming everything I say...so buck up and sell the hell out of that which does seem to sell...make yourself a good living and be proud to do so...and maybe you won't have to consult me for bankruptcy protection(...:):):)...)
If you REALLY have the ability to sell, and really have a good product to sell, then do it...don't let your UAW relatives scorn you, as they are not the ones paying your bills, and it is probably their products that the US market has shunned...like it or not, the Big 3 have lost severe market share, and it is the folks making the cars of the last 5-10 years that have cemented that reputation of the previous 20-30 years...
They cannot look at themselves...you need a job and one is apparently there for you...take it...so you can then support Beth in the manner to which she wants to become accustomed... :P
Their in lies the problem. The Union and Bondholders are hoping for a government hand out and not conceding to GM's restructuring. Whey do you think Ford was able to do it. UAW is worried about their standard of living and that is it.
It would be very hard on me selling Hyundai's marsha7. My dad surpised me and said you gotta do what you have to do to pay your bills. I don't know how well the Hyundai dealership is doing thus before I pull the trigger I need to do some fact finding. I last night went out to dinner with my ex g/f whom I'm still like best friends with and despite her parents also being both former GM workers and a Chevy girl herself she supports my decision for change. I will see where this road takes me. I am open too changing dealerships and/or brands. I'm also open to a career change all togeather because I'm not confident we are going to come out of this recession any time soon. :sick:
-Rocky
P.S. I was brushing up on my product knowledge on the Genesis sedan and coupe last night.
Yeah, Steve posted this a while ago. Maybe Obama read some magazines and realized that the Unions and Bondholders were being greedy and hoping for tax-payer's money. Last thing he needs are people with pitchforks a signs protesting at GM and Chrysler dealerships (which I would take off work to do). Thumping the GM and Chrysler would give Obama some cred in my book. Lets face it too, management of both these companies is inept and a bankruptcy world force those managers out. While I applaud Rocky for being open minded about selling other makes, car sales in general is a brutal business. I too work in sales and while it is difficult, the company is great, management is supportive, and the money is good. Our quotas for this quarter was $167,000. You do the math.
being a Kia fan like I am (and a Hyundai fan) I would totally applaud your decision(or possible decision) to go sell Hyundia's. Hyundai owns Kia, and I still respect Kia so much, that I want both of them to succeed. Kia is South Korea's oldest carmaker and forces out of their control in the late 90's caused the Hyundai buyout of them. They had to take the deal-the government of South Korea didn't want them to go belly up, and, they had way too much talent to stop making vehicles to let bad S.Korean economic times, the devaluation of the Korean won, worker strikes, etc., be the end of them.
My favorite of all carmakers, Mitsubishi, (my former fave was Kia Motors, ala iluvmysephia1...I considered a Mitsu nametag here on Edmunds but later dropped the idea) is basically a tax write-off by a parent Mitsubishi company. There are Mitsubishi's in several worldwide fondue pots, they're huge. If Mitsu vehicle sales fall too much in the U.S., they could pull up tent stakes and leave the U.S. market, like Isuzu. With their great new electric vehicle coming in another year and a half called the i-MiEV, I don't think I have to worry about Mitsubishi leaving the U.S. market.
But rockford, you do have to pay your bills, and the new Genesis sedan and Coupe are awesome cars. The Santa Fe, Veracruz, Sonata, Elantra, their good list is solid and selling. They are selling a mini car called the i10 in Europe that may get a NA counterpart soon, too, because small is still the direction we're going. Or the direction we should be going.
And no, I don't fear my Allied Health job will be taken by the Indians, or Filipino's. I have some other options I would choose if that should start happening, in this "offload" economy I would not say that my job is 100% solid, there's too many greedy dolts out there that wrest economic control of the work structure, to just flat out declare our individual jobs 100% secure. Let's just say I'll be watching it like a hawk.
You, my friend, jump ship to Hyundai. Do it! You're part of the Edmunds family, whether we agree on all things automotive or not, it doesn't matter, I want you to get and hold gainful employment. It's true, as Marsha says, you have Beth to think about now. :shades:
Imidazo, do you have a link to that report? I am strongly in the camp to get Wagoner out of there. If you were a GM stockholder you would want him out too; GM has lost money every year Wagoner has been in charge. Read the "Death of an American Dream" by Alex Taylor III on Fortune. Wagoner cannot get out of his own way and GM is a culture of failure. They need to get a successful person from out of the auto industry. Mullaly worked at Boeing before Ford and look at the things he has been able to do at Ford. Upon his being hired Mullaly went on a limb and said the Lexus LS was the best made car out there. He got flack, but look at how much better Ford's products and reliability have became. Mullaly can also talk to the media an is innovative. He called some guy to congratulate him on buying a Fusion Hybrid instead of a new Prius; could you imagine Wagoner doing that?
Rocky, your a hypocrite. You can leave GM for a better job, but GM can't ditch the UAW for more competitively paid work force? Not one of the bolt heads in the UAW would stay at GM if they could get paid more money somewhere else. GM sales are down, but sales now pale in comparison to how low they will be if another bailout is given. Part of this is GM's fault. The employee pricing scheme flooded the market, now all the slow people that would buy GM all ready have one. I bet you were not complaining then.
yep, it's true, Mullaly at Fo-Mo-Co is the real CEO thing. I am a former Boeing Co.employee, and Mullaly has his $%^& together, fully completely. Boeing gets rather, umm, trigger-happy when everything doesn't go their way with worldwide sales, and they wholesale start laying off everyone and their brother. They'll do this even with $10B large in the bank. I know, I was laid off in 2003 and Boeing had $10B large ones in the bank!
That irritates me about Boeing, but, I'm outta there and in a better job and in a better place to live to boot. Alan Mullaly, though, I have no quarrel with. Ford Motors is really turning around here, and Alan can take a lot of the credit for that. He did a great job for Boeing and he's doing a great job for Ford. I am starting to think Ford is going to pull out of this mess. I am not gonna look to Ford for a new car purchase, though, my faves are still all foreign carmakers and cars. :shades:
Remember, they (Ford) still have to pay off their "private" loans, they're just having to pay those firms off and not the Fed's. The same Fed's that GM will no doubt ever pay back for their "bailout" monies. Ford has more intestinal fortitude and smarts to sell off those assets they sold to raise capital. Isn't that part of what smart financial planning is all about?
GM should've planned to dump the UAW's at least 10 years ago, gentlemen.
General Motors chief executive Rick Wagoner is stepping down immediately, a source has told the Associated Press.
29/03/2009 5:19:36 PM
General Motors Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner talks about the company's restructuring plans during a news conference in Detroit, Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2009. (AP / Carlos Osorio)
CTV.ca News Staff
The source spoke to the news agency on condition of anonymity because Wagoner has yet to make an official announcement.
The news came on the same day U.S. Barack Obama chided the Detroit Three automakers, saying they needed to do more in terms of restructuring in order to receive financial aid.
GM and Chrysler are now surviving on US$17 billion in loans from the U.S. government, and GM was expected to ask for another US$16.6 billion. The Canadian units of both companies are also seeking billions of dollars in loans from Ottawa.
It's unclear who will replace Wagoner, who has been leading the company through the toughest financial crisis GM has ever faced.
He also leaves just before the company was expected to hand its finalized restructuring plans to the White House.
The Obama administration asked Rick Wagoner, the chairman and CEO of General Motors, to step down and he agreed, a White House official said.
The White House confirmed Wagoner was leaving at the government's behest after The Associated Press reported his immediate departure, without giving a reason.
On Monday, President Obama is to unveil his plans for the auto industry, including a response to a request for additional funds by GM and Chrysler.
Industry sources had said the White House planned very tough medicine, which turned out to be an understatement. And it went to the very top. The measures to be imposed by the government will have a dramatic effect on workers, unions, suppliers, retirees and the communities where plants are located, the sources said.
I want clear some things up. Beth, is just a best friend and not a responsibility of mine and we are just dating at this juncture. If it becomes more than that sure she will be included in my area of responsibilities. She sold her 16th car yesterday making her lots of money for the month thus she can take care of herself quite well. My only responsibility is my two kids and they come first obviously.
I am not abandoning GM, and don't even have the job yet at the Hyundai dealership. If I could find another dealership that sells GM, and it would be a good fit I would jump at it. The Hyundai, dealership does also sells new Dodge, Jeep, Nissan, Pontiac, GMC, thus I might be able to sell some GM products if I were to get the job. I am first before I make such a move am going to speak up in our Monday morning meeting. I want to see what kind of a reaction I get. If it's negative I'm going to bail as I'm not working my butt off if they don't want to change.
GM has flooded the market with cars for years to stay #1 in sales over Toyota. They should have been #2 or #3 in sales to stay competitive and made a profit until people trusted their quality again. Wagoner knows the bailout will not save GM and the only way is going bankrupt. When that happens he will be out of a job anyhow. This way he will some where spending his millions and will not have to answer the media when the crap hits the fan.
Thanks for the info and agree 100%. Growing up I never thought I would say this, but the Fusion and Mustang are appealing cars to me. Next time I buy an auto I will have to look at the Fusion, and if I get a good deal might buy one. If I need a truck, Ford is my first top. Hooray. No more wagoner! :shades:
Yay finally some good news. He might have his golden parachute and his ZR1, but he will always get looks from his country club and the Duke alumni association. He will go down in history as one of the worst CEO's in history. Our children's children will read about his folly.
Boeing gets rather, umm, trigger-happy when everything doesn't go their way with worldwide sales, and they wholesale start laying off everyone and their brother. They'll do this even with $10B large in the bank. I know, I was laid off in 2003 and Boeing had $10B large ones in the bank!
As I remember, the airframers all did that, not just Boeing. McDonald Aircraft, Lockheed, Grumman, Northrop, General Dynamics all were quick to lay off once a production run was nearing completion. It was part of their culture.
Comments
rocky: "Buyers wanting a car today want to test drive, touch, feel, the vehicle that they are seriously considering spending there hard earned dollars on. It really stinks!!!"...I am surprised you seem baffled that someone ready to buy a car today wants to see it today and actually touch the 2nd largest purchase in their lives, next to a home (altho, with the Democrats running Detroit, it won't be long before a Detroit home will cost less than my 4 year old Crown Vic, and we know how they depreciate)...
As far as dealer trade, why should they have to wait while you find the blue one they want, when they can drive around and find it themselves and maybe get a better price from the delaer who bought it from the manufacturer...that may be a courtesy you offer, but maybe the other dealer has had it on their lot long enough that they will deal better and lower than you...not a grinder, mind you, but if a car sat on the other dealer's lot for, say, 9 months, they may go a lot lower than you in order to move it...face it, rocky...for once it is a BUYER's market and we want to take full advantage of it...wouldn't you???
UAW is greedy and just looking to keep there standard of living. I'm glad I live in New England, where everyone has high speed internet and NO ONE drives GMs.
The Detroit 3 is already in the process of moving production to Mexico.
I was talking to my bank manager that used to be WaMu, now Chase. He said they are being much more prudent about who they lend money to. This whole mess in the country boils down to piss poor lending procedures and the greed that drove them to doing so.
The reason people cannot borrow money is because they are poor risks. No one should lend more than 80% max on a new car. And then only to people with a history of paying their bills.
Rocky should be happy I DO NOT blame the banking issues on the UAW.
Just to prove what I am saying. The Alaska Teamsters during the building of the Alaska Pipeline was investing Pension fund money into property that was leased to some of the companies we had contracts with. The Governor fearing we would have too much control pushed the Union to invest more out of Alaska. We bought a huge tract of land outside of Palm Springs called Indian Wells. You may know the rest of the story. That investment has netted our Pension Fund in excess of $400 million. Not bad for a Union with about 12,000 employees. Our leaders unlike Reuther and the UAW were convinced that capitalism was the only way freedom works for individuals. That is not to say that it is not abused. But then a quick look at the USSR will give a glimpse of what Socialism becomes in a very short amount of time. Reuther and his vision for America was very much like the USSR that he felt was a good model. Being a slave to the UAW or State is no better than being a slave to a corporation.
That 25 year figure shows a major part of the problem. Name me another industry (besides government) that you can retire with 25 years? At my company the earliest you can retire is 58 regardless of years of service. I had 40 years when I reached that mark last year. Luckily I have a job that I really like, a boss that leaves me alone, make a decent wage, and so have no intention of retiring - golf is for old guys :shades: .
The point here is that part of problem with the D3's/UAW's legacy costs is the fact that workers were able to retire at 55 or less. That means that the number of retirees that has to be supported is much larger than it would have been if there had been a minimum retirement age of, say 58, regardless of years of service. This is mostly a UAW caused problem, but also one of management for giving in to UAW's unreasonable demands. It was easier in the short term to agree to lucrative retirement benefits, including health care, because 1) it made the short term problem (wages) more tractable and 2) pushed the real problem off into the future. Well, the future is now!
Heck, I think the government has even gotten away from that. Now it may be different with state and local governments and such, but the federal gov't started phasing out that sweet retirement plan of theirs back around 1984. Anyone hired after then pays into social security, has the option of paying into a 401k-like plan, but they won't get a retirement.
And I think even under the old system, where you got a pension, you still had to be at least 55 to start drawing that pension. I think you'd hit your max at 40 years of service, that max would be something like 60% of the average of your 5 best years.
Around '92, GM was not selling any cars either. When the unions got in a tiffy GM conceded instead of playing tough, and they are paying for it today.
Also, Rick Wagoner may be one of the worste CEO's in history. GM has lost under ever year of his management. Even while selling bloated SUV's GM could not make a profit. When GM was sitting on the EV1 he could see the value of investing the technology into hybrids. Instead they dumped money into Escalades and paying the Unions. The idiacricy of GM goes back years; bad company culture plain and simple.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/11/21/magazines/fortune/taylor_generalmotors.fortune/i- - ndex.htm
THAT THE PRESIDENT'S ADMINISTRATION WILL GIVE OUT TAXPAYERS MONEY WHEN BOTH GM AND CHRYSLER HAVE NOT RECEIVED CONCESSIONS FROM THE UAW AND BONDHOLDER IS A DISGRACE.
Yes there are import dealerships that screw you for every dollar they can, but thankfully you aren't in as often as the D3. Between management, quality, some lousy dealerships and the UAW greed, no wonder they are going down the drain.
Go to Hyundai while you can and you may even like their cars after awhile, but at least you will be making a living.
The smart ones will get two Aveos for their $25K. So they have a backup when one is in the shop. :shades:
I think that says it all...you have bolstered my claim of $35/hour, and, for what???...pulling a "little red wagon" around behind him, like a child pulling a wagonload of stuff around his yard, except that the adult was on a motorized machine pulling something bigger than the wagon...
rocky: please explain to me how long it took to train this person to pull a pallet of parts behind them, and how much "skill" it takes to do this, since you keep telling me how "skilled" the folks are in Michigan and how dumb and ignorant these country Southern hicks are...this sounds like a job that takes 5 minutes to train, but 5 hours for the worker to learn the route and not get lost in the plant...and if supplied with a GPS, he can't even get lost in the plant, unless he is looking for the donuts in the Jobs Bank...you know, the place where he sits and gets paid to do even LESS than nothing, just in case an emergency arises and the OTHER guy who drives the toys doesn't show up (UAW absenteeism), and they have to call HIM in an emergency because SOMEONE "skilled" has to drive a pallet of parts around the plant...
rock, the more you talk about "skilled" labor that makes these cars, and the more people who post about what it is really like, makes me wonder just how you define "skilled" (well, he didn't drive the forklift into the bathroom today, so he must be our best forklift operator...let's make HIM the forklift steward...assuming he shows up five days in a row sober...in this union, highly unlikely)...your best bet is to stop trying to convince ANYONE of the skills to assemble these cars, because if skill was required, the illiterates would not be the ones hired...
And I KNOW about the illiterates, because I lived there for my ten years and saw it firsthand...
Like in the Wizard of OZ, the curtain is pulled back and all of your misconceptions (I assume yoyu aren't lying, you just have no real idea of what a "skill" really is) are being exposed for what they are...total misconceptions of what these people are...easily replaceable, 1 hour to train, unskilled labor that are probably being paid more than 5 times what the inherent value of their work is...they had it good for awhile, but that is simply OVER, because the other guys do it better, cheaper, and more efficient...and, they make it in America...
Oh, and about the fact that the profit goes back to japan...gagrice made the point that GM could not make money at the height of the SUV boom, when the profit per vehicle was $10,000...so, having the "profit" go back to GM probably did not do much for the shareholders, so if I owned GM stock, what would it have done for me???...even the instututions are wondering what to do with GM stock, and if they all do the prudent thing and dump it, shares will drop to about a nickel...and no, don't tell me it is the patriotic thing to do and just "hold" the stock...losing stocks should be dumped by everybody and anybody, only an idiot holds onto to a loser, saying "I lost my a**, but I feel good because GM is an American company"...
That goes back to taking control of my 401K and retirement...dump GM and buy what works, and an American auto company, sadly, ain't what works anymore...altho I do wonder if Ford may be worth buying soon, on a gamble...not now, this is a bear market rally that will crash again in a few months...when Ford is down to under a buck, it may pay to gamble...maybe a buck will become five in a year or 2...it worked back in the early 80s (altho I did not buy Ford or Chrysler at the time) and it may work now...
Daimler getting Jeep for their 20% of Chrysler would be odd, as it was Jeeps that helped us defeat the Germans in WWII, and now THEY would own it???
Last thought: "He blamed GM for him losing his job and said he wouldn't drive their crap"...he blamed GM but never looked in the mirror at who made that crap...and if HE called it crap, what am I to think???...please, rocky, what am I to think of a GM product if a GM employee calls his product crap???...you think YOU have any credibility left at all???...don't hold your breath...
You never did answer earlier...when is your divorce over so you can move on with Beth, the girl who will be selling Lexuses in the next two months???
EXAMPLE: I consider the folks that DESIGN an engine to be "skilled".... but the folks who BUILD that engine are just running machines which are programmed to build the internal engine parts. A monkey can be trained to "push the blue button when the yellow light goes on".... does that mean the monkey is "skilled"? (oh... the folks who PROGRAM the machines to build the parts may be skilled too)
The very purpose of the machines is to allow UNskilled workers to build a complex automoble. The UNskilled workers have been trained to think they are "skilled" thus they deserve a higher wage than burger-flippers. (Its all a big consparicy 8-) LOL)
The country is headed into the toilet. It isn't a good time at all to be selling cars period. I agree with you that if I was a buyer I'd like to see what I was buying before making a purchase decision. I just wished our owner and his son felt the same way as I and you do. I know we aren't as big as some of the other dealerships in the area but I do think we could use that to our advantage and be smarter than them. You can't order a one size fits all selecting vehicles with the same trim when peoples tastes vary. If you can land them on something close (trim level) to what they will end up buying and tell them you can get them there color choice by tomorrow well it would increase our sales volume as they will be able to feel out that specific vehicle. It is hard to have the customer drive a base model Malibu, and tell to just imagine what a loaded up one feels like. There is a huge difference between a 170 hp Malibu 4-cylinder and a loaded up V6 2LT or LTZ. I've had a dozen or more people want Duramax 3/4 ton pick-ups and we still don't have one. I can [non-permissible content removed] and complain about our inventory but I'm the new guy thus what do I know about cars, right???
I have said this before and I'll say it again that Hyundai, probably makes the best cars for the least amount of money on the market. The Genesis, is as well made as any Cadillac, Lexus, Mercedes, Acura, Lincoln, Infiniti, BMW, etc, etc, on the market. I do like the Hyundai, line-up but the bigger question is will I like the dealership and leadership??? My success is of course soley on me but if the enviroment and culture aren't a good fit well it isn't worth the risk. Beth, thinks I should of taken the interview and so as I said I'm going to give them a ring.
-Rocky
P.S. Do you and I agree on the inventory part??? Am I wrong for feeling the way I do because it is hurting my bottom line. I had a distant relative not buy from me because we had nothing like the vehicle they wanted.
-Rocky
My only break is a 10 minute lunch or a quick read and post in this forum
You need to get 33% of the crew to sign UAW cards and GO UNION!
Inventory is the catch 22 in your business. Too much and the overhead will bring the dealer down. Not enough and the customer goes elsewhere. It is hard for a buyer to negotiate for a car they cannot see and drive.
The dumb hicks in the transplants have to call the marginally trained farm boy that they call a machine repairmen. The UAW workers fix the machines they work with when they break down and of course during complex situations a "real" machine repairmen will come to the rescue.
That argument holds NO water. You are saying that the machinery in a HonToy or BMW factory fixes itself with a minimum down time? I don't think so. I worked with people in the oil fields for 25 years on very technical equipment. Most were hired out of the South for their training. For anyone to think that one state or area produces better workers than another is just a child's view. I think the example was back to a forklift operator making a huge wage. Whether $28 per hour as Oscar of Delphi fame or $35 per hour as posted earlier. That is at least twice as much as the job would be worth in CA where the cost of living is higher than Michigan. The gravy train is pulling out of Michigan. They have held the automakers hostage for too long, now it is payback time. My wife's nephew just got a job here in San Diego paying $21 per hour. He will be maintaining CH73 helicopters. He has all his certification through commercial jets. He was working in Ohio for an airline that went broke. That is a skilled job and he will be making more than he did in Ohio working on 737 engines.
Next you will tell me that fixing a robot is as skilled as repairing a jet engine on a commercial airliner. And carries the same responsibility.
He did make this deal with a relation of his on buying the car from him so he could use the money to buy anything but GM. His attitude towards employers and management is what they owe him for as little as possible work in return. There are too many union people that think this way and is screwing it up for the real workers.
The unions were needed back when your family worked hard for their money, but instead of keeping a fair playing field they have got greedy and it's destroying a lot of companies. Most union leaders today are the bad workers of yesterday and to keep their jobs they have moved up the ladder to save their butts. They couldn't care less about the other employees except to fill their pockets along with the CEO's with the loans from the government, knowing when they go bankrupt then new people will take over, but they will be alright in the future money wise.
It sounds like your dealership can't afford or too scared to have the kind of money needed to have the inventory you are talking about sitting around. Other years they knew it would sale sooner or later, but now they could be stuck with it and you don't stay in business by losing money. All the D3 dealers are hurting, some a lot more then others for sure.
> the folks who PROGRAM the machines to build the parts may be skilled
Now somebody here is talking real. Thanks bpeebles.
That is the whole point of automation.
1. Higher quality
2. Higher productivity
3. Lower labor costs
For every 20 or so robots/cnc machine, you will need 1 or 2 CNC programmers. They are the skilled folks. The operators are just button monkeys. Same for the folks who fix those machines. You don't need 1 for every robot. you can have again 1/2 repairman for a gang of 20 robots or so.
Question for Gagrice: which airline went bankrupt? I recall months back someone trying to get local/state government funding for a service center at the local airport for large aircraft repairs.
This question is for Rocky and it's about the inventory.
Is the inventory not available from GM in the items that are the hot-lookers to have sitting in obvious places at the deal?
Or is the inventory too expensive for the deal to invest in currently due to shortage of funds with the other cars unsold that they already have?
Or is it that the inventory that's "hot' has been in but has been bought because it is the interesting vehicles to a certain part of the buyer market and they had money and the cars were sold.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
CHICOPEE - Two weeks after promoting an expanding service here, Skybus Airlines announced Friday it would cease operations Saturday, the victim of rising fuel costs and a slowing economy.
The move threatens $15 million in state funds proposed for Westover Metropolitan Airport, Skybus' local departure point, said Chicopee Mayor Michael D. Bissonnette.
The Columbus, Ohio,-based airline opened in July, bringing the first regular passenger service to the airport since the late 1980s. With seats as low as $10, the no-frills service averaged 100 passengers per flight.
He took a job as a small aircraft mechanic after Skybus failed. He got laid off about 6 weeks ago and was offered a job out here. His wife is from San Diego so she was ready to go. They were all packed up and the guy out here emailed that the job offer was canceled. They came anyway and he was hired within a week at a better job at Miramar Marine base. He hated to leave his Buckeyes. But Ohio just does not have many opportunities for aircraft mechanics. He quit a Civil Service job at North Island to take the job at Skybus. He just could not stand being in CA away from home. I think he has gotten over that. Maybe. Rocky needs to pull the plug and get out of Michigan while he has a chance. The South has so much more to offer. He had a HIGH paying Union job with Pantex. He was not in a part of TX I would want to live. I like the Hill country of TX.
Perhaps your dealership is struggling and doesn't want to carry higher-cost demo models? Or perhaps the clientele is struggling and the dealership management thinks they won't be able to afford the higher-content models?
My owner has allowed his son to have total control of our new car inventory. He doesn't get it despite my best efforts. Most of the new car deals we do sell Marsha7, are dealer trades which = to just 6 this month thus far. I get phone-ups that ask me do you have such and such a car on your lot for me to come see??? What should I tell them??? Lie to them and say why sure we do??? They don't want to hear I can get it for you which brings me back to the root problem which I'm going to bring up next tomorrow morning. If they aren't willing to change then Rocky, needs to leave and try something else. I'm not working my [non-permissible content removed] off 6 days and 60 hours a week to make my draw check. I will sell Hyundai's or get a new job in a different field if I can find one. The sad thing is just a few problems are ruining a otherwise great work enviroment!!! :sick:
-Rocky
"GM and Chrysler are surviving on $17.4 billion in government loans. They have been hard hit by the economic downturn and the worst decline in auto sales in 27 years. GM is seeking $16.6 billion more; Chrysler wants $5 billion more.
Obama said the government would require a "set of sacrifices from all parties involved, management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody's gonna have to come to the table and say it's important for us to take serious restructuring steps now in order to preserve a brighter future down the road."
Both companies are trying to reduce their debt by two-thirds and persuade the United Auto Workers union to accept several cost-cutting measures."
Obama: Auto industry needs to do more to get help (AP)
-Rocky
-Rocky
There are no high paying jobs to go too in other parts of the country. If you don't think I've looked well you are very mistaken. It isn't just the midwest that is suffering now. It is the whole country. I'm not going to move to Wyoming or North Dakota to work as a assistant manager at Arby's.
-Rocky
-Rocky
rocky: I am absolutely with you on this one, believe it or not...it is up to the dealer to keep inventory, as if I want to see a blue Malibu I want to see it or go to the dealer who does...I appreciate that you have the decency not to lie to the customer, telling them you have a blue one, and then when they get there tell them you just sold it...
You need to consider Hyundai, if there is one selling cars near you...or, consider the (what is to you) unthinkable, and leave Michigan for better parts...just because you don't like Texas does not mean that another state may not be to your liking...YOU need to make a living, and if your current dealer employer has no decent cars to sell, you do NOT prove any high-handed principle by staying at a dying dealer just to sell Big 3 cars...
You may remember another principle...the concept of paying your bills and being an upright citizen...if selling Hyundais lets you pay your bills and improve your standard of living, you are NOT selling out America by selling a Hyundai to a customer...while you may be rah-rah for the UAW (and, yes, it will be your demise) it is not YOUR fault that Americans have deserted the Big 3 for cars they believe are better made...you can argue with me all you want, the market is slapping you in the face daily, confirming everything I say...so buck up and sell the hell out of that which does seem to sell...make yourself a good living and be proud to do so...and maybe you won't have to consult me for bankruptcy protection(...:):):)...)
If you REALLY have the ability to sell, and really have a good product to sell, then do it...don't let your UAW relatives scorn you, as they are not the ones paying your bills, and it is probably their products that the US market has shunned...like it or not, the Big 3 have lost severe market share, and it is the folks making the cars of the last 5-10 years that have cemented that reputation of the previous 20-30 years...
They cannot look at themselves...you need a job and one is apparently there for you...take it...so you can then support Beth in the manner to which she wants to become accustomed... :P
-Rocky
P.S. I was brushing up on my product knowledge on the Genesis sedan and coupe last night.
-Rocky
Lets face it too, management of both these companies is inept and a bankruptcy world force those managers out.
While I applaud Rocky for being open minded about selling other makes, car sales in general is a brutal business. I too work in sales and while it is difficult, the company is great, management is supportive, and the money is good. Our quotas for this quarter was $167,000. You do the math.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My favorite of all carmakers, Mitsubishi, (my former fave was Kia Motors, ala iluvmysephia1...I considered a Mitsu nametag here on Edmunds but later dropped the idea) is basically a tax write-off by a parent Mitsubishi company. There are Mitsubishi's in several worldwide fondue pots, they're huge. If Mitsu vehicle sales fall too much in the U.S., they could pull up tent stakes and leave the U.S. market, like Isuzu. With their great new electric vehicle coming in another year and a half called the i-MiEV, I don't think I have to worry about Mitsubishi leaving the U.S. market.
But rockford, you do have to pay your bills, and the new Genesis sedan and Coupe are awesome cars. The Santa Fe, Veracruz, Sonata, Elantra, their good list is solid and selling. They are selling a mini car called the i10 in Europe that may get a NA counterpart soon, too, because small is still the direction we're going. Or the direction we should be going.
And no, I don't fear my Allied Health job will be taken by the Indians, or Filipino's. I have some other options I would choose if that should start happening, in this "offload" economy I would not say that my job is 100% solid, there's too many greedy dolts out there that wrest economic control of the work structure, to just flat out declare our individual jobs 100% secure. Let's just say I'll be watching it like a hawk.
You, my friend, jump ship to Hyundai. Do it! You're part of the Edmunds family, whether we agree on all things automotive or not, it doesn't matter, I want you to get and hold gainful employment. It's true, as Marsha says, you have Beth to think about now. :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I am strongly in the camp to get Wagoner out of there. If you were a GM stockholder you would want him out too; GM has lost money every year Wagoner has been in charge. Read the "Death of an American Dream" by Alex Taylor III on Fortune.
Wagoner cannot get out of his own way and GM is a culture of failure.
They need to get a successful person from out of the auto industry. Mullaly worked at Boeing before Ford and look at the things he has been able to do at Ford.
Upon his being hired Mullaly went on a limb and said the Lexus LS was the best made car out there. He got flack, but look at how much better Ford's products and reliability have became. Mullaly can also talk to the media an is innovative. He called some guy to congratulate him on buying a Fusion Hybrid instead of a new Prius; could you imagine Wagoner doing that?
GM sales are down, but sales now pale in comparison to how low they will be if another bailout is given.
Part of this is GM's fault. The employee pricing scheme flooded the market, now all the slow people that would buy GM all ready have one. I bet you were not complaining then.
That irritates me about Boeing, but, I'm outta there and in a better job and in a better place to live to boot. Alan Mullaly, though, I have no quarrel with. Ford Motors is really turning around here, and Alan can take a lot of the credit for that. He did a great job for Boeing and he's doing a great job for Ford. I am starting to think Ford is going to pull out of this mess. I am not gonna look to Ford for a new car purchase, though, my faves are still all foreign carmakers and cars. :shades:
Remember, they (Ford) still have to pay off their "private" loans, they're just having to pay those firms off and not the Fed's. The same Fed's that GM will no doubt ever pay back for their "bailout" monies. Ford has more intestinal fortitude and smarts to sell off those assets they sold to raise capital. Isn't that part of what smart financial planning is all about?
GM should've planned to dump the UAW's at least 10 years ago, gentlemen.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's immediate.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
General Motors chief executive Rick Wagoner is stepping down immediately, a source has told the Associated Press.
29/03/2009 5:19:36 PM
General Motors Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner talks about the company's restructuring plans during a news conference in Detroit, Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2009. (AP / Carlos Osorio)
CTV.ca News Staff
The source spoke to the news agency on condition of anonymity because Wagoner has yet to make an official announcement.
The news came on the same day U.S. Barack Obama chided the Detroit Three automakers, saying they needed to do more in terms of restructuring in order to receive financial aid.
GM and Chrysler are now surviving on US$17 billion in loans from the U.S. government, and GM was expected to ask for another US$16.6 billion. The Canadian units of both companies are also seeking billions of dollars in loans from Ottawa.
It's unclear who will replace Wagoner, who has been leading the company through the toughest financial crisis GM has ever faced.
He also leaves just before the company was expected to hand its finalized restructuring plans to the White House.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The White House confirmed Wagoner was leaving at the government's behest after The Associated Press reported his immediate departure, without giving a reason.
On Monday, President Obama is to unveil his plans for the auto industry, including a response to a request for additional funds by GM and Chrysler.
Industry sources had said the White House planned very tough medicine, which turned out to be an understatement. And it went to the very top. The measures to be imposed by the government will have a dramatic effect on workers, unions, suppliers, retirees and the communities where plants are located, the sources said.
I want clear some things up. Beth, is just a best friend and not a responsibility of mine and we are just dating at this juncture. If it becomes more than that sure she will be included in my area of responsibilities. She sold her 16th car yesterday making her lots of money for the month thus she can take care of herself quite well. My only responsibility is my two kids and they come first obviously.
I am not abandoning GM, and don't even have the job yet at the Hyundai dealership. If I could find another dealership that sells GM, and it would be a good fit I would jump at it. The Hyundai, dealership does also sells new Dodge, Jeep, Nissan, Pontiac, GMC, thus I might be able to sell some GM products if I were to get the job.
I hope I cleared some things up. :P
-Rocky
They should have been #2 or #3 in sales to stay competitive and made a profit until people trusted their quality again. Wagoner knows the bailout will not save GM and the only way is going bankrupt. When that happens he will be out of a job anyhow.
This way he will some where spending his millions and will not have to answer the media when the crap hits the fan.
He's jumpin' ship, he's got more than an adequate parachute, yikes and spikes. Would this make him a...umm...coward, does anyone think?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Hooray. No more wagoner! :shades:
As I remember, the airframers all did that, not just Boeing. McDonald Aircraft, Lockheed, Grumman, Northrop, General Dynamics all were quick to lay off once a production run was nearing completion. It was part of their culture.