Coming down the hill at noon (powder day :shades: ), the radioheads were talking about the big elephant in the room - UAW pensions and health care benefits for the workers. If today's actions are just to soften everyone up for a reorganization, the PBGC is going to wind up seeking money from Congress just to pay the retirees 30 cents on the dollar.
And how about this wrinkle - if the health benefits get wiped out in a Chapter 11, the administration could use that as an opportunity to start a test run of universal health care by extending Medicare or starting up some pilot program just for the auto workers. Maybe they could copy the Railroad Retirement Board.
>The UAW retirees will get screwed out of about $40B
The UAW retirees with hard-nosed negotiating and striking successful vehicle plants deserve some responsibility for the problems with making a profit and supplying cars with parts that were selected to save costs so they could pay the UAW and their retirees. :sick:
How can you defend Wagoner. Any idiot could have seen in 2000 that gas prices were going to go up. Why not invest in small car technology when you had the chance. And yes the EV-1 was a lost cause, but it did give GM the best electric car technology. That could have been easily carried over into a hybrid. Imagine if GM was the only US manufacturer with a dedicated hybrid. They would have sold 100,000s last summer. Imagine if they had created the GM version of the Insight 2 years ago.
Well our part supplier companies agree with you imidazol97, that they will go belly up if the Big 3 were too go under.
Parts suppliers that cannot make a go of it when only 8 million vehicles are sold will go broke anyway. Suppliers that are tied into UAW contracts with lots of horrible work rules will probably bite the bullet. Trust me. If automaker XYZ needs parts to build cars. Someone will be there to make the parts in very short order. I would imagine some well run suppliers will make out like bandits during this down turn. Not all 3 will go broke. I am betting that Chrysler/FIAT will weather the storm. They will unload much of their US manufacturing. Keep the few factories in Canada and start selling the heck out of the FIAT line of economical cars. Ford seems to be on the right track with good management. My bet is GM will liquidate its US holdings to cleanse themselves of all the dealer contracts and UAW contracts. They could still sell foreign made vehicles and make a profit. They have proven they cannot make cars under UAW contracts at a profit. Just because some Delphi factory made a profit does not mean GM made money on those parts. If Delphi sells a widget to GM that installs it in an Impala sitting on a dealers lot that goes broke. That part only cost GM money. It did not make them a penny.
Steve, a large majority of those plants that are on the chopping block are in Holland, MI. and yes Marsha7, they are non-union and make parts for all the manufacturers around the globe. It goes to show you even if you aren't making a livable income as a non-union worker your job isn't safe. They were paying $10-15 an /hr. the same as when I worked there 10 years ago. :sick:
Don't worry GM, is done and in a few months this forum will be able to close down for good as there will be no UAW or Big 3 left for us to debate over. :sick:
I've always pictured Holland MI as a tourist spot with lots of camping and bike paths. My brother has been there a couple of times pulling his pop-up camper from TN up there.
We won't close the discussion down - we'll just become a hangout for the retirees and laid off workers to reminisce about the good ol' days.
What were they suppose to do just bend over and take it??? You have no idea how ridiculous some of the contract proposals were. We can sit here and play the blame game but at the end of the day it boils down to domestic policy. Neither the democrat or republican party as a whole could care a bit about how the average slob is affected. This country is done and Kim Jung Mentally ILL, will be our new master as we won't have the infrastructure to fight him or the like back nor will we be able to afford it!!! :sick:
LOL!!! We can remember the good ol' days when we were free and uncensored. Oh well we will be able to debate how well Tata stacks up against Brickland, Geely, Chery, and how the non-unionized american slaves need to be beaten into shape because that lawn mower engine sludged up and left a communist lord stranded.
The UAW retirees with hard-nosed negotiating and striking successful vehicle plants deserve some responsibility for the problems with making a profit and supplying cars with parts that were selected to save costs so they could pay the UAW and their retirees
The UAW can be real proud of that American Axle strike last year. They really showed "the man" who is boss!
Holland, is indeed a tourist town but was filled with automotive and furniture plants. Holland, also had a Hershey's plant there for a good number of years which was union before they went to Canada. many members of my family worked at "GE Motors" making appliance motors which was IUE. Not many union shops in Holland, because it was a conservative town but it had a few back in the day. I'm afraid Holland, will become a ghost town before it's all said and done. :sick:
Do you remember why they went on strike??? They make $10 an/hr. at the Three Rivers plant south of Kalamazoo. They make far less than Delphi workers and they were profitable. There CEO made like $11 million in salary while the bluecollar worker swallows the cut. I guess when nobody has any money left to spend we will evolve to that serf n' elite society the globalist have dreamed about for decades.
I find this amusing because local auto workers (IUE and others) walked the streets to solicit votes for him.This was despite knowledge the local Moraine auto plant would be closing! I wonder if some rue those days.
Even under the Company’s optimistic assumptions, the Company remains breakeven, at best, on a free cash flow basis throughout the projection period, thus failing the fundamental test of viability.
o Under its own plan, GM generates $14.5bn of negative free cash flow over its 6 year forecast period.
Even in 2014, on its own assumptions, GM generates negative free cash flow after servicing legacy obligations.
o Given the highly challenging current market, the Company is already behind plan in its overall volume expectations and market share for calendar year 2009.
o Since the Company has built a plan with little margin for error, even slight swings in its assumptions produce significant and ongoing negative cash flows. For example, a 1% share miss in overall global sales, all else being equal, in 2014 would lead to a $2 billion cash flow reduction in that year.
In short, while the Company has made meaningful progress in its turnaround plan over the last few years, the progress has been far too slow, allowing the Company to continue to lag the best-in-class competitors.
Furthermore, even if the projected plan is achieved, the cash flow forecast is quite modest, leaving the Company little margin for error in what will be a very difficult turnaround.
As a result, the President’s Designee has found that General Motors’ plan is not viable as it is currently structured. However, given the improvements that have been made to date, and the path on which these improvements place GM, we believe that there could be a viable business within GM if the Company and its stakeholders engage in a substantially more aggressive restructuring plan.
No surprise there. The beancounters missed as usual, just like the sales projections at the start of the begging period. And they choose another beaner to run the mess??
New England was the first place to be hit by outsourcing starting about 100 years ago when all the textile mills were outsourced to the South which then in turn have been outsourced overseas. Some of those New England towns STILL haven't recovered. Lawrence, Massachusetts is one of the most impoverished cities in the nation.
Chikoo were has you're head been every year the UAW puts out a list on how much the execitives make. There salary of a exec. is ten times higher then what a UAW employee makes.
We have told execitives that they are draining the companies dry. Ford is the only one who started to listening.
Before you blow a gasket the UAW salary per hour is what every american should be making. If you take what a person was making after WWII with inflation added in this is what the wage should be..
What is hurting the auto makers is when they starded to down sized the retirment fund for the uaw employees was not there NO!! money in the fund. Just like Social Security.The finance department of the auto makers should be watching the dave ramsey show on how to save.
Every UAW employee in the big three makes about the same the only thing that change is the cola based on were you live.
I live in New England and this area is doing fine. Compared to other populous states it has low unemployment and high rates of education. Crime is Boston is even relatively low.
I was thinking earlier, and does it strike anyone else as unusual that no UAW workers are on this message board? We argue back and forth if they are worth their pay but non one of them defense themselves. Maybe no one in the UAW has a computer?
Rocky, as a salesman, how can you defend unions. Your pay is dictated on how hard you work. Would you rather work for a place where even the slobs got paid as much as you?
Before you blow a gasket the UAW salary per hour is what every american should be making.
If you like that system the USSR was your kind of government. If you pay the kid flipping burgers $30 per hour, what will a burger cost. The truth is you would quit buying burgers if they were as over priced as cars are today. Yes people should all be making more based on the cost of living. When I was making $5 per hour in 1970, I could buy a nice home here in San Diego for $20k. That same home today in the recession is selling for $400k. They got as high as $600k. At $400k I would have to make $100 an hour for parity to 1970. Cars are even worse today. Maybe it is the cost of labor to build them?
While it is true the Executives have done well over the last 40 years compared to labor. EVERYONE had the same chance to get educated and work up to the executive level. I for one was not willing to spend the time to do that. It is not as easy as putting a lug nut on a new car.
Do you remember why they went on strike??? They make $10 an/hr. at the Three Rivers plant south of Kalamazoo.
You know that is pure BS. AA was offering a two tier wage package at $11.50 to $14.50 per hour. The old timers held on to their high paying jobs. AA was trying to keep a level playing field with Dana to keep jobs in the USA and not move to Mexico. The UAW proved again that they are not interested in keeping jobs in the country. The UAW has pushed more work to Mexico than most Americans know. If the guy working changing tires at Firestone had any idea how much unskilled workers are getting in a UAW job they would be on the bus coming up to grab any available job by the 1000s.
Quite simply 99% of UAW workers are OVERPAID for the job and the market. It is a case of supply and demand. There are literally millions of legal and illegal UNSKILLED people in this country. A job that pays of $10+ per hour is a premium job. It seems people have a hard time grasping the concept of supply and demand.
Exactly. The UAW is worried about maintaining their standard of living, and that is it. They don't care about GM, the salesman, or the tax payers. They just car about less work and more pay. The old UAW members always make the new guys concede.
I interviewed at JCI in '93 in Plymouth. I read that retirees will get 100 cents on the dollar from pbgc up to $64k per year. I cant imagine those over 64k a year being more that the top 1/2 of 1 percent of pensionees.
450,000 automotive jobs were lost in 2008, mostly in the midwest. to most import lovers this is no big deal.
about the wrinkle I expect something like that.
We all put a lot of importance on the 3-10% we spend on our cars. What about the other 90%? My cell reception sucks. ATT sucks, my builder sucked, the guy who cleaned our street sucked. The snowplow guy sucked, the garbage man broke the handle, my water was yellow on saturday, the power surged yesterday, and congress's big mouth ruined the bizjet industry. Who doesn't suck? Am I to believe that Honda and Toyota are going to fix life?
I can't believe what a life and death importance hating on GM has for some. I have just driven their cars to work and back and on vacation for so many years without any serious issues. If I go get a new one next week, I expect it to be far better than any of the many I've had that were totally satisfying already. I have no doubt that it will be.
I keep hearing different stories about how the PGBC will handle retirees - I think the 100% may apply only to those already drawing benefits. There is a good post on the subject in this discussion iirc, but I never can remember the details.
Gagrice, I got my first house in ~74 for ~$19,000. It's now worth about $140k on Zillow in an area that hasn't experienced a housing slump. Not everywhere is SD. :shades:
funny post, youre right who doesnt suck? haha...GM makes good cars now, people should give them a break, at least we are giving americans jobs, like me...i work at a NH supplier...with no pension, no free health care, jobs bank or 28 a hour
manchester NH was home to biggest textile mill in world in early 1900s...i just drove by it friday...lawrence, ma is a s---hole town now...i buy thorlo socks made in usa...they are the best, but one of few left that are made here
Lawrence, Massachusetts is one of the most impoverished cities in the nation.
Yes but the majority of the residents don't have English as a first language, or are just out of prison (great place for a cheap apartment).
The rest of New England is doing pretty well despite this downturn. In NH we still have under 6% unemployment, and a mild case of foreclosure.
For the most part there are no private-company unions, but a thriving middle class (white collar, skilled laborers - plumbers electricians police, firemen). Factory workers make about an average $15/hr + benefits - which I consider is fair - lower middle class for people with only a HS diploma, and not taking the risk of running their own business.
I work harder than any of my coworkers here at the dealership and have assumed more responsibility than any of them yet my pay is pretty much the same as everyone else this month. In manufacturing plants that are non-union the pay scale is the same as the guy next to you. I have never worked any place that was merit based. If it was based on parts per hour well those crappy parts would end up in your cars because people would be taking chances to exceed the quota and would skip quality. That is the words coming from a former manager at JCI.
The difference is unions give people a chance at the american dream. If this economy was running like a well oiled machine and we had next to zero unenemployment and people were buying cars and other goods and services at a expected rate well this UAW topic would be a non-issue. I've had some time to reflect and I STILL think it was a huge mistake that Richard G. Wagoner is no longer CEO of GM. :mad:
imidazol97, even the UAW workers are defending Wagoner. They understand that Rick Wagoner tried his best given the uneven playing field and tried to preserve as many american jobs as he could but this and previous administrations have sold the UAW and Big 3 down the river! :mad: :mad: :mad: ...I can promise you one thing and that is Obama, will be a one term president if the Big 3 go BK!!!
I work harder than any of my coworkers here at the dealership and have assumed more responsibility than any of them yet my pay is pretty much the same as everyone else this month.
What about Beth?? She is like a sales magnet...she doesn't even have to try!
I would follow her around more and get any scraps that she misses!
You know that is pure BS. AA was offering a two tier wage package at $11.50 to $14.50 per hour. The old timers held on to their high paying jobs.
That is not B.S. and I'll prove it too you!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: The Three Rivers Plant Starts at $10 an/hr. because I applied there and was offered a interview that I refused once I saw the pay scale. I wasn't driving 70 miles one-way for $10 an/hr.
You don't think I could find some guy from India, to do your job??? Hell they are decades a head of us in communications. They have been using Fiber Optics for years. You really need to pull your head out of the sand if you don't think I couldn't find workers is foreign countries to do your and most other peoples jobs for half of the cost. If the globalist get there way that area of exploitation is next. The UAW worker is just the first domino to fall. :mad:
Beth, delivered #20 this morning. I spoke with her last night before she went to bed and said she had a 8:30 delivery. It must be nice being a smoking hot chick in sales!!!
The American Dream is working hard and getting rewarded for it. The american dream is not doing a bad job with no incentive and getting rewarded for it. Wagoner is a Horrible CEO, under his tenure: -GM's stock went from $70 to two dollars -GM lost close to $100 Billion Dollars -Car technology was ignored for SUV updating -Hummer was purchased -Hybrids were not pursued -The EV-1 was killed -GM lost its standpoint as the largest manufacturer -Close to 200,000 GM employees were laid off -GM indebted itself to the brink of bankruptcy -No meaningful concessions were negotiated with the UAW -He embarrassed GM by flying to DC and asking for taxpayers dollars with no viability plan -Old, unprofitable brands and nameplates were not can celled -A record number of dealerships closed
So put tariffs on China and Brazil? But oh wait, they will put tariffs on Buicks then and GM will lose two huge markets. I don't understand this mythical currency manipulation, but many companies have been successful with out national health insurance. I don't see Mullaly bitching. Also you skated the question, what good has Wagoner done?
I keep hearing different stories about how the PGBC will handle retirees - I think the 100% may apply only to those already drawing benefits
What makes you think think those already drawing benefits will keep their's at 100%? When Beth Steel went belly up and the retirement obligations taken over by the PBGC, most retirees took a significant cut in their retirement income. This was because PBGC guarantees the max payout ($54K/year?) only to those who did not retire before 65 or take any other form of early retirement. Any anyone bringing in more than the max, for whatever reason, was cut back, I believe.
Gagrice, I got my first house in ~74 for ~$19,000. It's now worth about $140k
Location, location, location.
In 1970 when I moved to Anchorage a tract house was about $40k. Just double San Diego. Anchorage has had some wild swings in property values. San Diego is way out of line. I just don't see with the current cost to build where it will come down much. Finding a building lot under $200k is a trick. Permits to build are about $40k. Even in this down market decent homes are bringing $200-$250 per square foot. So a cheapo tract home will be a minimum $300k. A friend just took the plunge on a new 1900 Sq Ft condo at $400K. He wanted to get the $8k tax credit for first time buyers. His rent is currently $2700 so he will be in that range with good interest rates.
So as Rocky has pointed out you need more than the current UAW $15 per hour starting pay to buy a nice home in some areas.
Speaking of unreality, Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm said that Mr. Wagoner is a "sacrificial lamb," but that's only if you don't look at his record. Since Mr. Wagoner became CEO in June 2000, GM's stock price has declined from more than $70 a share to under $3. The past year has been brutal on all stocks, but even in 2005, when car sales stood at near-record levels, the company lost $10.6 billion and the stock had plunged nearly 75% from when Mr. Wagoner took the helm. GM also suffered a steady slide in its U.S. market share -- from 28% to 22% -- during the Wagoner era.
your buddy Rick Wagoner...it sounds like was trying to be the good 'ole boy to the whole struggling Company. Some real hard decisions needed to be made, and he failed to make them.
I mean, one that many can relate to is this one. Why is GM even thinking about charging $40,000 for the Volt in this crappy economy? That new tech car is supposed to help lift GM up, but, someone can walk in to a Honda dealership and buy a new Insight with a little bit of new tech from old Insight's, but nothing that should really fail after one starts putting miles on their new Insight, and pay $19,000 OTD(well, plus T&L)?
Is it any wonder the Big 2 and a half are failing?
BTW-what are Ford Motor Company's retirees getting upon retirement for health care? Same deal as GM workers, or is this being tweaked as we speak? Ford speaks as if they'll make it through this mess and the new hybrid Fusion and even regular Fusion look good. The new 2010 Ford Fiesta will get low 40's mpg. Ford workers, fans, stockholders all can thank CEO Alan Mulally for the bulk of this goodness.
Chrysler's chances don't look good at all right now to survive.
They just car about less work and more pay. The old UAW members always make the new guys concede.
Saw a clip on tv news program this morning where tv host was interviewing a UAW local president. The president said that Gettlefinger was a very good leader and that the UAW had already made many sacrifices including giving up Jobs Bank and having entry level workers start at $14 an hour. He should be embarrassed to even mention the Jobs Bank. Out of curiousity, was Jobs Bank initiated under Wagoner's regime or prior.
That is not B.S. and I'll prove it too you!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Three Rivers Plant Starts at $10 an/hr. because I applied there and was offered a interview that I refused once I saw the pay scale. I wasn't driving 70 miles one-way for $10 an/hr.
Rocky, did you read the article you posted? That is a reasonable contract. What is your idea of factory support. I would say Janitor. If you have a skill that AA can use you would have started at $18 per hour. With regular wage increases. I would not drive 70 miles for $50 per hour. But then that is me.
New wages - Wages vary based on job title and location. At Detroit Gear and Axle, the largest striking plant, production workers will be paid about $18 per hour; skilled trades $26 per hour; non-production support workers $14.35 per hour. By comparison, wages at a Three Rivers, Mich., plant will range from $10 per hour for factory support to $25 per hour for skilled trades.
New hires - New production hires will be paid $11.50 per hour; new skilled trades hires will be paid $22 per hour. Those workers will receive a 50-cent or 51-cent per hour wage increase every 26 weeks until they reach the full senior level pay.
You don't think I could find some guy from India, to do your job?
I have retired why would I care? And he would have to join the Union. So he would get the same wage as the other guys. Our company posted ads in both Chicago and Minneapolis papers for technicians and did not receive a single resume' from a qualified technician. As I told you they finally talked someone out of retirement to work up there. If you did not want to work 70 miles from home you would probably not like being 700 air miles from the closest city of any size. I flew 3000+ miles every 3 weeks for 25 years. Like I keep telling you. The good jobs are not always where YOU want to be. My wife's nephew hated leaving family in Ohio to get a decent job here in San Diego. Whining over life's little ups and downs does little to improve your place in the scheme of things. If you are only worth $10 per hour to AA, you need to get some training.
"General Motors has always reserved its top spot for executives with strong financial backgrounds. So from that perspective, Fritz Henderson, previously GM president and chief operating officer, is a natural to take over for just-departing CEO Rick Wagoner, who also rose through the company's treasurer's office.
But the highly regarded Henderson faces at least two big problems if he hopes to extend his "interim" as GM's new CEO into a permanent gig.
Henderson suffers immediately and irreversibly from his association with the Wagoner regime. That's why many observers give him no better than a 50-50 chance of hanging on to his new job for the long term."
The new guy is GM inbred; seems like a good guy but too soaked in the old GM ways.
I hate to say it, but they are probably going into bankruptcy. The bondholders and UAW are playing a game of chicken to see who blinks first. So dumb, they both get wiped out in bankruptcy. :sick:
Can a single UAW employee defend themselves on this post?
We all put a lot of importance on the 3-10% we spend on our cars. What about the other 90%? My cell reception sucks. ATT sucks, my builder sucked, the guy who cleaned our street sucked. The snowplow guy sucked, the garbage man broke the handle, my water was yellow on saturday, the power surged yesterday, and congress's big mouth ruined the bizjet industry. Who doesn't suck? Am I to believe that Honda and Toyota are going to fix life?
Have decent cell, AT&T has been good, had great house builder, great subsequent contractors for renovations, reliable/precise snowplow guy, reliable/responsible garbage pickup, great water well and pump, reliable power company and gas supply, live in a county with mostly effective and predominantly Republican politicians, AND had great and reliable vehicles over last couple decades (Honda, Nissan, Acura). To best of my knowledge, no UAW workers had assembled any of these cars.
Guess it is all about making informed decisions when faced with numerous choices.
"CURRENCY MANIPULATION, UNFREE TRADE, NO NATIONAL HEALTHCARE.
Give Wagoner a level playing field and GM, would kick it's foreign competition [non-permissible content removed]!!!!
-Rocky
Oh, wait there's Caterpillar "Team Caterpillar has delivered another remarkable quarter," said Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jim Owens. "While North America remains depressed and we've seen softening in Western Europe and Japan, Caterpillar continues to grow in emerging markets and in global industries like energy and mining and we continue to see good growth in our integrated service businesses. It's gratifying to see the positive impact of being such a diverse company in terms of products, services, geography and the industries we serve," Owens said.
Comments
Auto Interiors Parts Supplier To Close 10 Plants. JCI is one of the biggest out there. They also seem to think they'll return to profitability in the 3rd and 4th quarters.
The UAW Lost 7.3% of Members as Auto Cuts Outpaced Gains. (Bloomberg).
Coming down the hill at noon (powder day :shades: ), the radioheads were talking about the big elephant in the room - UAW pensions and health care benefits for the workers. If today's actions are just to soften everyone up for a reorganization, the PBGC is going to wind up seeking money from Congress just to pay the retirees 30 cents on the dollar.
And how about this wrinkle - if the health benefits get wiped out in a Chapter 11, the administration could use that as an opportunity to start a test run of universal health care by extending Medicare or starting up some pilot program just for the auto workers. Maybe they could copy the Railroad Retirement Board.
The UAW retirees with hard-nosed negotiating and striking successful vehicle plants deserve some responsibility for the problems with making a profit and supplying cars with parts that were selected to save costs so they could pay the UAW and their retirees. :sick:
>That is why GM is BROKE...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
And yes the EV-1 was a lost cause, but it did give GM the best electric car technology. That could have been easily carried over into a hybrid. Imagine if GM was the only US manufacturer with a dedicated hybrid. They would have sold 100,000s last summer. Imagine if they had created the GM version of the Insight 2 years ago.
Parts suppliers that cannot make a go of it when only 8 million vehicles are sold will go broke anyway. Suppliers that are tied into UAW contracts with lots of horrible work rules will probably bite the bullet. Trust me. If automaker XYZ needs parts to build cars. Someone will be there to make the parts in very short order. I would imagine some well run suppliers will make out like bandits during this down turn. Not all 3 will go broke. I am betting that Chrysler/FIAT will weather the storm. They will unload much of their US manufacturing. Keep the few factories in Canada and start selling the heck out of the FIAT line of economical cars. Ford seems to be on the right track with good management. My bet is GM will liquidate its US holdings to cleanse themselves of all the dealer contracts and UAW contracts. They could still sell foreign made vehicles and make a profit. They have proven they cannot make cars under UAW contracts at a profit. Just because some Delphi factory made a profit does not mean GM made money on those parts. If Delphi sells a widget to GM that installs it in an Impala sitting on a dealers lot that goes broke. That part only cost GM money. It did not make them a penny.
-Rocky
-Rocky
We won't close the discussion down - we'll just become a hangout for the retirees and laid off workers to reminisce about the good ol' days.
-Rocky
-Rocky
The UAW can be real proud of that American Axle strike last year. They really showed "the man" who is boss!
-Rocky
-Rocky
But no. What do they do? They asked for "you scratch my back, I will scratch yours".
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Workers-say-Obama-treated-apf-14789941.html
I find this amusing because local auto workers (IUE and others) walked the streets to solicit votes for him.This was despite knowledge the local Moraine auto plant would be closing! I wonder if some rue those days.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Even under the Company’s optimistic assumptions, the Company remains breakeven, at best, on a free cash flow basis throughout the projection period, thus failing the fundamental test of viability.
o Under its own plan, GM generates $14.5bn of negative free cash flow over its 6 year forecast period.
Even in 2014, on its own assumptions, GM generates negative free cash flow after servicing legacy obligations.
o Given the highly challenging current market, the Company is already behind plan in its overall volume expectations and market share for calendar year 2009.
o Since the Company has built a plan with little margin for error, even slight swings in its assumptions produce significant and ongoing negative cash flows. For example, a 1% share miss in overall global sales, all else being equal, in 2014 would lead to a $2 billion cash flow reduction in that year.
In short, while the Company has made meaningful progress in its turnaround plan over the last few years, the progress has been far too slow, allowing the Company to continue to lag the best-in-class competitors.
Furthermore, even if the projected plan is achieved, the cash flow forecast is quite modest, leaving the Company little margin for error in what will be a very difficult turnaround.
As a result, the President’s Designee has found that General Motors’ plan is not viable as it is currently structured. However, given the improvements that have been made to date, and the path on which these improvements place GM, we believe that there could be a viable business within GM if the Company and its stakeholders
engage in a substantially more aggressive restructuring plan.
No surprise there. The beancounters missed as usual, just like the sales projections at the start of the begging period. And they choose another beaner to run the mess??
Give me a break!
Regards,
OW
We have told execitives that they are draining the companies dry. Ford is the only one who started to listening.
Before you blow a gasket the UAW salary per hour is what every american should be making. If you take what a person was making after WWII with inflation added in this is what the wage should be..
What is hurting the auto makers is when they starded to down sized the retirment fund for the uaw employees was not there NO!! money in the fund. Just like Social Security.The finance department of the auto makers should be watching the dave ramsey show on how to save.
Every UAW employee in the big three makes about the same the only thing that change is the cola based on were you live.
I was thinking earlier, and does it strike anyone else as unusual that no UAW workers are on this message board? We argue back and forth if they are worth their pay but non one of them defense themselves. Maybe no one in the UAW has a computer?
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/30/news/companies/contrib_detroit.fortune/index.htm-
If you like that system the USSR was your kind of government. If you pay the kid flipping burgers $30 per hour, what will a burger cost. The truth is you would quit buying burgers if they were as over priced as cars are today. Yes people should all be making more based on the cost of living. When I was making $5 per hour in 1970, I could buy a nice home here in San Diego for $20k. That same home today in the recession is selling for $400k. They got as high as $600k. At $400k I would have to make $100 an hour for parity to 1970. Cars are even worse today. Maybe it is the cost of labor to build them?
While it is true the Executives have done well over the last 40 years compared to labor. EVERYONE had the same chance to get educated and work up to the executive level. I for one was not willing to spend the time to do that. It is not as easy as putting a lug nut on a new car.
You know that is pure BS. AA was offering a two tier wage package at $11.50 to $14.50 per hour. The old timers held on to their high paying jobs. AA was trying to keep a level playing field with Dana to keep jobs in the USA and not move to Mexico. The UAW proved again that they are not interested in keeping jobs in the country. The UAW has pushed more work to Mexico than most Americans know. If the guy working changing tires at Firestone had any idea how much unskilled workers are getting in a UAW job they would be on the bus coming up to grab any available job by the 1000s.
Quite simply 99% of UAW workers are OVERPAID for the job and the market. It is a case of supply and demand. There are literally millions of legal and illegal UNSKILLED people in this country. A job that pays of $10+ per hour is a premium job. It seems people have a hard time grasping the concept of supply and demand.
The old UAW members always make the new guys concede.
450,000 automotive jobs were lost in 2008, mostly in the midwest. to most import lovers this is no big deal.
about the wrinkle
I expect something like that.
We all put a lot of importance on the 3-10% we spend on our cars. What about the other 90%? My cell reception sucks. ATT sucks, my builder sucked, the guy who cleaned our street sucked. The snowplow guy sucked, the garbage man broke the handle, my water was yellow on saturday, the power surged yesterday, and congress's big mouth ruined the bizjet industry. Who doesn't suck? Am I to believe that Honda and Toyota are going to fix life?
I can't believe what a life and death importance hating on GM has for some. I have just driven their cars to work and back and on vacation for so many years without any serious issues. If I go get a new one next week, I expect it to be far better than any of the many I've had that were totally satisfying already. I have no doubt that it will be.
Gagrice, I got my first house in ~74 for ~$19,000. It's now worth about $140k on Zillow in an area that hasn't experienced a housing slump. Not everywhere is SD. :shades:
Yes but the majority of the residents don't have English as a first language, or are just out of prison (great place for a cheap apartment).
The rest of New England is doing pretty well despite this downturn. In NH we still have under 6% unemployment, and a mild case of foreclosure.
For the most part there are no private-company unions, but a thriving middle class (white collar, skilled laborers - plumbers electricians police, firemen). Factory workers make about an average $15/hr + benefits - which I consider is fair - lower middle class for people with only a HS diploma, and not taking the risk of running their own business.
The difference is unions give people a chance at the american dream. If this economy was running like a well oiled machine and we had next to zero unenemployment and people were buying cars and other goods and services at a expected rate well this UAW topic would be a non-issue. I've had some time to reflect and I STILL think it was a huge mistake that Richard G. Wagoner is no longer CEO of GM. :mad:
imidazol97, even the UAW workers are defending Wagoner. They understand that Rick Wagoner tried his best given the uneven playing field and tried to preserve as many american jobs as he could but this and previous administrations have sold the UAW and Big 3 down the river! :mad: :mad: :mad: ...I can promise you one thing and that is Obama, will be a one term president if the Big 3 go BK!!!
-Rocky
What about Beth?? She is like a sales magnet...she doesn't even have to try!
I would follow her around more and get any scraps that she misses!
Regards,
OW
That is not B.S. and I'll prove it too you!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: The Three Rivers Plant Starts at $10 an/hr. because I applied there and was offered a interview that I refused once I saw the pay scale. I wasn't driving 70 miles one-way for $10 an/hr.
http://www.autoobserver.com/2008/05/american-axle-strike-was-it-worth-it.html
:mad: :mad:
You don't think I could find some guy from India, to do your job??? Hell they are decades a head of us in communications. They have been using Fiber Optics for years. You really need to pull your head out of the sand if you don't think I couldn't find workers is foreign countries to do your and most other peoples jobs for half of the cost. If the globalist get there way that area of exploitation is next. The UAW worker is just the first domino to fall. :mad:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Wagoner is a Horrible CEO, under his tenure:
-GM's stock went from $70 to two dollars
-GM lost close to $100 Billion Dollars
-Car technology was ignored for SUV updating
-Hummer was purchased
-Hybrids were not pursued
-The EV-1 was killed
-GM lost its standpoint as the largest manufacturer
-Close to 200,000 GM employees were laid off
-GM indebted itself to the brink of bankruptcy
-No meaningful concessions were negotiated with the UAW
-He embarrassed GM by flying to DC and asking for taxpayers dollars with no viability plan
-Old, unprofitable brands and nameplates were not can celled
-A record number of dealerships closed
What good has he done at GM, name it? :lemon:
Give Wagoner a level playing field and GM, would kick it's foreign competition [non-permissible content removed]!!!! :mad:
-Rocky
Also you skated the question, what good has Wagoner done?
What makes you think think those already drawing benefits will keep their's at 100%? When Beth Steel went belly up and the retirement obligations taken over by the PBGC, most retirees took a significant cut in their retirement income. This was because PBGC guarantees the max payout ($54K/year?) only to those who did not retire before 65 or take any other form of early retirement. Any anyone bringing in more than the max, for whatever reason, was cut back, I believe.
Location, location, location.
In 1970 when I moved to Anchorage a tract house was about $40k. Just double San Diego. Anchorage has had some wild swings in property values. San Diego is way out of line. I just don't see with the current cost to build where it will come down much. Finding a building lot under $200k is a trick. Permits to build are about $40k. Even in this down market decent homes are bringing $200-$250 per square foot. So a cheapo tract home will be a minimum $300k. A friend just took the plunge on a new 1900 Sq Ft condo at $400K. He wanted to get the $8k tax credit for first time buyers. His rent is currently $2700 so he will be in that range with good interest rates.
So as Rocky has pointed out you need more than the current UAW $15 per hour starting pay to buy a nice home in some areas.
http://www.skyranchliving.com/
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123846435523672235.html
I mean, one that many can relate to is this one. Why is GM even thinking about charging $40,000 for the Volt in this crappy economy? That new tech car is supposed to help lift GM up, but, someone can walk in to a Honda dealership and buy a new Insight with a little bit of new tech from old Insight's, but nothing that should really fail after one starts putting miles on their new Insight, and pay $19,000 OTD(well, plus T&L)?
Is it any wonder the Big 2 and a half are failing?
BTW-what are Ford Motor Company's retirees getting upon retirement for health care? Same deal as GM workers, or is this being tweaked as we speak? Ford speaks as if they'll make it through this mess and the new hybrid Fusion and even regular Fusion look good. The new 2010 Ford Fiesta will get low 40's mpg. Ford workers, fans, stockholders all can thank CEO Alan Mulally for the bulk of this goodness.
Chrysler's chances don't look good at all right now to survive.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The old UAW members always make the new guys concede.
Saw a clip on tv news program this morning where tv host was interviewing a UAW local president. The president said that Gettlefinger was a very good leader and that the UAW had already made many sacrifices including giving up Jobs Bank and having entry level workers start at $14 an hour. He should be embarrassed to even mention the Jobs Bank. Out of curiousity, was Jobs Bank initiated under Wagoner's regime or prior.
Anyway, who's the new guy in charge?
Rocky, did you read the article you posted? That is a reasonable contract. What is your idea of factory support. I would say Janitor. If you have a skill that AA can use you would have started at $18 per hour. With regular wage increases. I would not drive 70 miles for $50 per hour. But then that is me.
New wages - Wages vary based on job title and location. At Detroit Gear and Axle, the largest striking plant, production workers will be paid about $18 per hour; skilled trades $26 per hour; non-production support workers $14.35 per hour. By comparison, wages at a Three Rivers, Mich., plant will range from $10 per hour for factory support to $25 per hour for skilled trades.
New hires - New production hires will be paid $11.50 per hour; new skilled trades hires will be paid $22 per hour. Those workers will receive a 50-cent or 51-cent per hour wage increase every 26 weeks until they reach the full senior level pay.
You don't think I could find some guy from India, to do your job?
I have retired why would I care? And he would have to join the Union. So he would get the same wage as the other guys. Our company posted ads in both Chicago and Minneapolis papers for technicians and did not receive a single resume' from a qualified technician. As I told you they finally talked someone out of retirement to work up there. If you did not want to work 70 miles from home you would probably not like being 700 air miles from the closest city of any size. I flew 3000+ miles every 3 weeks for 25 years. Like I keep telling you. The good jobs are not always where YOU want to be. My wife's nephew hated leaving family in Ohio to get a decent job here in San Diego. Whining over life's little ups and downs does little to improve your place in the scheme of things. If you are only worth $10 per hour to AA, you need to get some training.
That would be Fritz "We Will Get The Job Done" Henderson.
"General Motors has always reserved its top spot for executives with strong financial backgrounds. So from that perspective, Fritz Henderson, previously GM president and chief operating officer, is a natural to take over for just-departing CEO Rick Wagoner, who also rose through the company's treasurer's office.
But the highly regarded Henderson faces at least two big problems if he hopes to extend his "interim" as GM's new CEO into a permanent gig.
Henderson suffers immediately and irreversibly from his association with the Wagoner regime. That's why many observers give him no better than a 50-50 chance of hanging on to his new job for the long term."
GM's Fritz Henderson: The New Man On The Hot Seat
I hate to say it, but they are probably going into bankruptcy. The bondholders and UAW are playing a game of chicken to see who blinks first. So dumb, they both get wiped out in bankruptcy. :sick:
Can a single UAW employee defend themselves on this post?
Have decent cell, AT&T has been good, had great house builder, great subsequent contractors for renovations, reliable/precise snowplow guy, reliable/responsible garbage pickup, great water well and pump, reliable power company and gas supply, live in a county with mostly effective and predominantly Republican politicians, AND had great and reliable vehicles over last couple decades (Honda, Nissan, Acura). To best of my knowledge, no UAW workers had assembled any of these cars.
Guess it is all about making informed decisions when faced with numerous choices.
"CURRENCY MANIPULATION, UNFREE TRADE, NO NATIONAL HEALTHCARE.
Give Wagoner a level playing field and GM, would kick it's foreign competition [non-permissible content removed]!!!!
-Rocky
Oh, wait there's Caterpillar
"Team Caterpillar has delivered another remarkable quarter," said Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Jim Owens. "While North America remains depressed and we've seen softening in Western Europe and Japan, Caterpillar continues to grow in emerging markets and in global industries like energy and mining and we continue to see good growth in our integrated service businesses. It's gratifying to see the positive impact of being such a diverse company in terms of products, services, geography and the industries we serve," Owens said.
http://www.cat.com/cda/components/fullArticleNoNav?ids=962599&languageId=7
Now how on earth did Caterpillar manage to become so successful when other manufacturers fell to the mighty Japanese like Komatsu?
Oh! Apparently because management faced down the UAW in the 90's...
http://www.kentlaw.edu/ilhs/cat.htm