Canada doesn't have enough tax-payers to dump $100 Billion into Chrysler and GM. I think the best thing would be for Chrysler to go under. Mercedes got bamboozled into buying an "equal" and Chrysler's world market share is dismal. When Mercedes bastardized them they were left with no R&D and technology. Mercedes can buy Jeep and Nissan can make the Ram. As for GM, in one for or another they need to stick around. A government aided bankruptcy may be the best choice, but they will keep digging themselves into a hole the way things are now. If they can be the 5th largest automaker and sustain a profit, that is a success,
Let's face it. GM and Chrysler's years of bad products has caught up two fold: -No one wants to buy their cars -People hate the companies so much they would rather see them fail
Rocky, in your defense, this is the worst car market in history and the economy is in a bad recession. Don't beat up yourself. Blame Wagoner.
I agree. Rocky, it's not your fault that GM has the Volt they've been advertising for 3 years that isn't in the showrooms yet. It's not like GM has a Prius or Civic or even a Genesis to sell. That's not your fault. With your passion I'm sure we would all buy from you if we were in MI and you were selling the cars we wanted!
I appreciate the support dbostondriver. I will blame Wagoner, for canceling the 4.5 V8 Duramax and the 2.9L V6 diesel engines that were suppose to be available this year. We had a big Monday morning meeting a couple of weeks ago with the owner and he is basically blaming the sales staff for our numbers. Could we improve our skills??? Sure. Even I have some weak area's I can improve on but I know more than most folks about cars. However the root of our problem is not having the right inventory in stock which he (owner) can point that finger at his son. I like his son a lot as a person and is a cool guy but it is costing me money and time having to look for inventory at other dealerships all the damn time. A customer sits at your desk while you look and how are you suppose to build enthusiasm looking at build sheets??? I have made suggestions regarding what vehicles we should carry and the response I get is it wouldn't sell here!!! Well when you have 4 new cars last month and only 6 out this month well one would think hey maybe I don't know as much as I think??? :confuse: His son also blames other sales staff even though he only has 3 or 4 out himself and has been working for his father at the dealership since he was 14 years old and knows way more people than I do.
So as this is probably my last post for the evening I will get on here tomorrow and let you guys know how it went down. I have a feeling I won't get positive feedback from the management team but my coworkers probably will appreciate the new guy having enough hair on his you know what to say something. I guess that is one thing I've learned from my UAW, IUE, TEAMSTER, family is things aren't going to change with silence. I will say what I need too in a respectful tone and at this point is if they don't like it well they can fire me!!!
I do appreciate it tlong. It is so frusterating because I of all people love GM and it's cars. Yes I drink the Kool-Aid, and believe in what I'm selling outside of an Aveo. The Aveo, belongs on another planet. We have some very interesting products in the pipeline like the 2010 Equinox, Volt, Camaro, Cruze, and the new Spark, that will replace the god awful Aveo. I wished I could be in charge of product launches at GM. The Spark would have a baby diesel engine that gets 60+ miles per gallon. The CTS diesel would get 40+ mpg. The redesigned Canyon/Colorado would have a diesel that got 40 mpg. also. I would of course keep persuing hybrid and other technologies. I would buy or re engineer the new latest and greatest battery technology I think it was from Toyota, to use for myself in the Volt. Instead of making a last minute change for the better technolgy I expect GM, to use what they have and lag behind. :mad: ....I've had at least a half dozen people this past month wished we had a Duramax half-ton. We've also had a customer complain about his 6-speed automatic transmission and how some of his buddies are now having problems with there trucks and have had to have them replaced. This isn't the Allison but rather the new GM-Ford co-devoloped 6-speed auto unit. I was busy doing something but tried to listen to him and he said to me his truck was starting to rust on the tailgate and it isn't brake residue. I should of stopped what I was doing to go confirm this because I find that hard to believe. He wants to replace his 08' with a 09' Duramax with a Allison because he doesn't want to be stranded while pulling a load. Of course the Tranny is covered under the warranty and will check with the owners son if his tailgate was indeed showing signs of rusting tomorrow. He is the only person I know of that is having problems with his truck but claims his buddies have had problems. Despite it all he still like his Chevy truck tlong. They are very nice!!! Maybe he got a :lemon: ???
These are just some examples of how everything can't be blamed on the United Automobile Workers. They can only do the best job they can with the parts they are given. The UAW workers can't make miracles happen!!!
if obama gets his way on taxing carbon emissions, i think that will officially send us into a depression...he said himself energy would "skyrocket" under his plan...the usa is like GM now, its best days are behind it unfortunately for those of us who love our country and want to see one of the most important american companies ever not fail...i support the big 3, i want them to survive
my company makes big parts for allison transmission that are shipped all over world, even china...i get sick of the GM bashing, they have supported millions of familes over the years, mine included...their 2.2 ecotec was designed in detroit, sweden (saab) england and is very well respected...it is easy to change the oil in too, with filter just underneath hood...my sunfire runs like it is brand new with 80k on it, i feel it is every bit the equal of a corolla...if GM can just survive these next few years when union contracts go off the books they might make it
I can't say I disagree with you. The CAFE standards might cost all UAW workers there jobs. Our democrat Senators and Congressman and women have faught against the enviromental whack jobs on the coasts but look at who's in charge. Pelosi, Reid, Boxer, Feinstein, are calling the shots. The democrats are going to lose the majority in both the house and senate because they are allowing the voice of a minority to dominate the room. I guess they will pay the price. The only politican I trust and have any faith in is Lansing, Michigan Mayor Virg Benero, and he blames both parties for what is going on today!!! He reminds me of Lou Dobbs.
i dont trust either party either, or the federal reserve and treasury...the fed is run by private bankers JHC, i always thought we the people controlled our currency... there is just too much potential for corruption...some people were mad GM recd govt loans but AIG and Goldman sachs can just walk in there and get 700B like it is nothing? AT least GM employs real workers in the real economy despite their past sins...Paulson and robert rubin were goldman ceos and ex treasury secretaries, tell me that isnt crooked? but back to obama and the carbon tax, this really isnt the time to drive energy and electric much higher, you will have children and the elderly suffering in this country, not to mention less autoworkers
The Fed was created with the goal of eventual private control over the national treasury. Warburg and Morgenthau et al. are not ethical names. We've been inching there a little more each generation - this is just the largest step. You get the laws and legislation you pay for, and it helps when your people are the ones who make the laws. These are the people who decide who we get to elect as president.
All of the carbon credit junk and other burdens put on the first world in the name of the environment are simply a scheme to bankrupt the first world to make it easier to submit to the dumbed down globalized new world order.
The plight of the automakers will just be used a distraction from nationalization elsewhere.
However the root of our problem is not having the right inventory in stock which he (owner) can point that finger at his son. I like his son a lot as a person and is a cool guy but it is costing me money and time having to look for inventory at other dealerships all the damn time.
And that's the way it's always going to be. He's family, and you're not, so when push comes to shove, he's gonna win every time. I've seen that in other small, family owned/run businesses. Friend of mine works for small, family owned coffee wholesaler. They are still back in the 70's in so far as their bookkeeping is concerned, and she wanted to bring them into the [non-permissible content removed] era. No dice - the owner doesn't understand that new-fangled computer stuff, and paper records and inventory control work just fine, thank you very much.
Heard the good mayor on Fox News over the weekend. Cheese, sounds like you could have been writing his copy for him, Rocky. All about "good American workers", "manufacturing base", "Detroit has lots of new stuff in the pipeline - just you wait", "yeah, GM has made some mistakes, but they've turned the corned", yada yada, yada. If it wasn't you, must have been UAW fodder :shades: .
> Obama, might of sealed is fate as a one term president after today. ....The sheeple have been sold a bill of goods regarding hybrid cars as it causes more pollution to create a battery than would be saved by a gas or diesel engine.
The total pollution and environmental damage to build a hybrid is greater than a Civic or Corolla or Cobalt is less over their lifetime. We're going to see if Geithner knows how to run an auto company. He hasn't done well at anything else since TARP 1; he hasn't done well at handling the UAW inequity costs problem with the higher paid, older faction thereof.
>I think you can chalk me up for a non-Obama, vote next election.
ROFL
>Hillary, would be light years better than what we got now.
No. No. No. She in last couple of days made statement that we have to protect or take care of the interests of the Chinese. Remember all the money Bill (and SHE) took from the Chinese? She wouldn't be using that to extend the interests of the Old UAW even though she would have used them even more than the NEA in pimping for her election votes.
I think it's going to be funny to see how they spin what this may do to the Old UAW folks. The media will help but it will be something like adding 5 trillion to the total debt over 5 years and saying that we want to cut the debt in half, both at the same time.
>I am removing Barry, from my Myspace friends tonight because of what he is doing to Wagoner.
Any company of GM's size supports many families. Microsoft, Walmart, Apple, Ford, Delta, Bank of America; all of these companies have put food on the table and helped people retire. The criticism of GM is two fold. Aloof management unable to run a company efficiently, in turn loosing billions. GM's product quality since the 60's. That Pontiac Sunfire is a great example. The Civic and Corrola have developed a loyal fanbase. Would they ever retire that nameplate? In the past four years, GM has piled up $82 billion in losses. Tax payers good will is the only reason GM is around.
How many times has GM said they have turned the corner. Remember when Saturn came out? That was supposed to be the new savior. They really need someone outside of GM to run the company. Chrysler looks gone. Fiat is not , and in this world recession it will be hard for Fiat to justify buying a failing company. Fiat may be in bailout territory as well.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Neither General Motors nor Chrysler submitted acceptable plans to receive more federal bailout money, the Obama administration said as it set the stage for a crisis in Detroit that would dramatically reshape the nation's auto industry.
The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.
President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.
In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.
Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.
In an interview with CBS'"Face the Nation" broadcast Sunday, Obama said the companies must do more to receive additional financial aid from the government.
"We think we can have a successful U.S. auto industry. But it's got to be one that's realistically designed to weather this storm and to emerge - at the other end - much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is," Obama said.
Under the terms of a loan agreement reached during the last administration, GM and Chrysler are pushing the United Auto Workers to accept shares of stock in exchange for half of the payments into a union-run trust fund for retiree health care. They also want labor costs from the union to be competitive with Japanese automakers with U.S. operations.
Little progress has been made between the companies and the union.
My highlighted statement says it all about GM and the UAW. They were unable to get rid of poor performing employees. Executives, white collar and UAW. Maybe the lot of them can form a self help group to cope with the mess they have made of General Motors. Once the largest corporation on the Planet. Now worth less than Dunkin Donuts.
But Wagoner never followed up his success with Lutz by recruiting other outsiders, leaving it to Ford and Chrysler to recruit Toyota stars Jim Farley and Jim Press.
And despite the clear failure of several staff functions to perform adequately, Wagoner never let anybody go. He despised ritual hangings to keep survivors on their toes and couldn't find it in himself to move anyone aside for poor performance.
The collapse of General Motors is a tragedy in several regards, but nowhere more so than in the case of Wagoner. Having become chief financial officer at the age of 39 during GM's last crisis in 1992, he performed loyally and uncomplainingly throughout his entire career. In other circumstances, he could have been a superstar.
GM: GM earns a large share of its profits from high-margin trucks and SUVs, which are vulnerable to a continuing shift in consumer preference to smaller vehicles. Additionally, while the Chevy Volt holds promise, it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term [ ]GM is at least one generation behind Toyota on advanced, “green” powertrain development. In an attempt to leapfrog Toyota, GM has devoted significant resources to the Chevy Volt. While the Volt holds promise, it is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable.
Chrysler: On a standalone basis, Chrysler will struggle to comply with increasing fuel efficiency standards, and it may even have to restrict the sale of certain models to make sure it is in accordance with proposed standards.
The collapse of General Motors is a tragedy in several regards, but nowhere more so than in the case of Wagoner. Having become chief financial officer at the age of 39 during GM's last crisis in 1992, he performed loyally and uncomplainingly throughout his entire career. In other circumstances, he could have been a superstar.
The ironic part about this is that in those other circumstances, you don't need a superstar. When times are good, cars/trucks are selling at 12-15 million units a year, and you're one of the few players in the game, ANYONE can look good. It's when the going gets tough (like now) that the truly great CEOs, those that are really worth their multi-million dollar compensation packages, prove their worth.
I would agree, but Wagoner has never maid a profit while at the head of GM. He has lost $82 billion in four years. Even when SUV's were selling he could not make a dime. If Wagoner was running your family business and had lost copious amounts of money over the last eight years would you keep him? :lemon: GM needs an outside thinker. Someone that has not been at GM for so long that they haven't driven a Toyota or Hyundai.
I think they were being kind to him. Wagoner as CFO never had a winning year at GM. A company that does not average at least close to 5% net profit, is a loser. GM has not had 5% profit ONE YEAR out of the last 20. They should have gone bankrupt in 1998 when the UAW shut them down. The blame ultimately lies with a bunch of losers on the BOD. When the CEO is not making the right moves you axe them. At least Bill Ford was smart enough to know he was incapable of running Ford and hired someone that could. Heck Bill Ford can't even win a football game with his dad's Detroit Lions. I think the whole Detroit culture needs reorganization. They have lost all credibility. Can't make cars, play football or make music anymore.
DETROIT -- President Barack Obama's auto task force believes General Motors Corp. can bounce back and become a competitive auto maker -- but only if the company shakes up its management and dramatically accelerates its restructuring efforts.
After weeks of reviewing company's operations, the panel concluded GM's current restructuring plan "is not viable" and is not scheduled to reach many of its goals until 2014, according to a memo summarizing its findings that was released late Sunday night.
"A great deal of progress needs to be made," the task force wrote, "and GM's plan contemplates initiatives that will take many years to complete."
Using the threat of withholding additional loans, the task force forced GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner to step down on Sunday. He will be replaced by Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, currently GM's chief operating officer.
In its memo on the company, the task force also said that the majority of GM's directors would be replaced and that Kent Kresa, a long-time director, would serve as interim chairman.
Despite the pessimistic view on GM's restructuring plan, members of the task force said they are "confident that with a more fundamental restructuring, GM will emerge from this process as a stronger more competitive business."
To help GM, the Obama Administration will provide it with working capital for 60 days to develop a more aggressive restructuring plan.
A five-page summary reviewing GM's financial health is largely an evisceration of the plan GM presented to the task force earlier this year. It challenges the auto maker's rosy projections on almost every front, from how quickly the company expects to lose more U.S. market share to its ability to price competitively to its ability to introduce and sell new, fuel efficient cars.
In one section, the task force examined GM's optimistic view of its sliding market share by recounting its 30-year decline. In 1980s, GM's market share was 45%; last year, it was 22%. But the company only forecasted a rate of decline through 2014 at half the rate it has lost a year for the last three decades - 0.3% a year versus 0.7% annually.
Most important to the task force, the company simply is burning through more cash than it can bring in, "failing a fundamental test of viability," the government panel concluded. Task force members said while they considered many factors, GM's ability to generate future profits is the truest test of the company's viability.
Critics of the company long complained that GM had been saddled by too many brands, too many dealers and too many retirees to whom they had promised generous lifetime health care benefits. Like other U.S. auto makers, GM had also become overly dependent on sales of trucks and SUVs for profits while shunning less profitable cars.
The government body also took aim squarely at the Chevy Volt – GM's heavily hyped electric car of the future – saying it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term.
Looming over all of GM's financial woes is the massive obligation GM has to its retirees. The task force found that GM's own plan to deal with retiree health care and pensions "grow to unsustainable levels, reaching approximately $6 billion per year in 2013 and 2014."
To pay those bills, GM would need to sell 900,000 additional cars per year, according to the panel. GM sold 8.35 million vehicles globally last year.
The company does not clearly address "the lingering consumer perception that GM makes lower-quality cars," the task force found. The implications of that perception mean most consumers will pay less for GM cars against its competitors, forcing the auto maker to entice customers with hefty price reductions through incentives.
"While the Company has made meaningful progress in its turnaround plan over the last few years, the progress has been far too slow, allowing the Company to continue to lag the best-in-class competitors," the government panel concluded.
>the task force examined GM's optimistic view of its sliding market share by recounting its 30-year decline. In 1980s, GM's market share was 45%; last year, it was 22%. But the company only forecasted a rate of decline through 2014 at half the rate it has lost a year for the last three decades - 0.3% a year versus 0.7% annually.
I hope I'm not the only one finding humor in the administration's team criticizing GM for being over optimistic while the administration reduced the deficit projection to 5 years because the usual 10 years projection used by the office that does that shows the huge ballooning effect of all the deficit spending.
Even the forecast for how quickly we'd get out of this recession was tainted by very high optimism on things that would happen to show a rosy future.
What's missing from the summary is what Bo's administration is going to do about the older high cost UAW folks that are one end of the cost problem.
The other thing missing is the inequity in how the competition cars through the decades were allowed in to undercut the costs of the US automakers.
Same administration is proposing to change rules for companies getting tax breaks now for producing off our shores and for moving production. But the past administrations allowed competition in unlike how other countries allow us to produce or import into their countries.
iluv: "Umm...last time I checked you pay in to U.I. at your place of employment"...actually, your employer is TAXED based upon your wages or salary...what IS different is that UAW folks have taxes themselves for what is called SUB (SUPPLEMENTAL UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFIT) PAY, which makes up the difference between your regular check and regular unemployment benefit...but things like unemployment, workers comp are a tax placed on the employer that they pay into...the employee generally does not pay anything for those benefits...
rocky: I hope you have the ability to speak the truth to your employer about the obvious situation with inventory...you cannot sell what you do not have, and, in this market, no one wants to wait for you to find one 20 minutes away...
maybe Beth can support YOU and you can be Mr. Mom and take care of the kids of you and Beth (am I rushing this relationship too fast???)
you should always re-evaluate your abilities, but maybe you could have better luck selling a product other than GM...when folks walk into an import dealer, they are already prejudiced toward their quality, whether real or perceived...you might have a better time selling cars that get great write-ups from companies that are farther from bankruptcy than Big 3...
The task force is made up of hand picked people by Geithner. They have to have shown the ability to avoid taxes to be considered for these very lucrative jobs. :sick:
what I see as destroying it is policies that are lone to the D3. Paying bridge medical. Paying pre 65 pensions. Many more. Hard to compete when you are the only one paying it. UAW tactics like striking to cripple their own companies finances (do they not know who they work for?) and resisting automation don't help.
Perceptions are really screwed up. We know so much about the company that we can pass judgment on the ins and outs of so many parts of their business, but our knowledge of the quality of their products is left to follow common held perceptions. Even the Bowtie is considered offensive in some circles.
Fritz Henderson, isn't going to change anything. He is not much different than Wagoner. If the board and Obama, had any clue they would put Jim Press in charge of GM, since I don't expect Chrysler, to be around much longer.
Well our meeting this morning included threats from the manager and why we are to blame for not selling cars even though we don't keep the products people want in our inventory. I made small talk with my sales manager and gave my $0.02 on why we aren't selling cars here. I have a interview Wednesday at the Hyundai, dealership. I will be able to sell Hyundai, Nissan, Dodge, Jeep, Pontiac, GMC, thus I'm not totally away from GM. I hope I get the job because I have a feeling this place is doomed. :sick:
marsha7, I'm not sure I'm going to have any more kids pal and getting married is the last thing on my mind. My family has purchased a car from the dealership I'm applying at (Pontiac/GMC) and I will have "friends" that buy Hyundai's and other imports. One of my best friends parents only drive imports thus I will have to network in a whole new direction. They currently own a Hyundai Sonata, I think. The best part would be assuming I get the job would be the fact that I would have 6 major brands to sell instead of just one. :shades:
Well our meeting this morning included threats from the manager and why we are to blame for not selling cars even though we don't keep the products people want in our inventory.
Don't let poor management discourage you. And don't go out eating pizza and drinking with your bosses kid. Did you know these guys at Wayland Chevrolet?
" I will have "friends" that buy Hyundai's and other imports. One of my best friends parents only drive imports thus I will have to network in a whole new direction. They currently own a Hyundai Sonata, I think"...
You will have to widen your circle to include the "treasonous Communists" that actually buy imports and non-UAW products...when you meet them, listen to WHY they buy the imports...don't shut your ears to what they say...they may give you VERY important insights as to why the Big 3 and the UAW are going down...don't hand them the "skilled labor" stuff you hand to us...they will look you in the eye and tell you why they deserted Big 3 brands...and, if you are half as intelligent as gagrice thinks you are (... ...), you might learn something that you will never learn from us because you simply don't "hear" us...
If they tell you about dealers who screwed them, or cars that fell apart, or were not well assembled, listen to them, because you will be talking DIRECTLY to the people who could have bought a Big 3 car but didn't...regardless of YOUR opinions, they mean nothing to the person who will never buy a Big 3 car again, so listen to why GM no longer gets their money and you might learn something...
See, that is something you have insulated yourself from for years...you sell UAW, you have UAW family, and you only know UAW products...you need to place yourself in the belly of the beast and talk to the REAL people who have deserted GM forever, and find out why...regardless of what YOU think, it is THEIR money and you would be wise to find out why they buy imports...working at a Chevy Dealer, frankly, will teach you NOTHING about the downfall of the Big 3 because everyone thinks like you do, and everyone worships the ground that the UAW walks on...that gives you ZERO insight into why people spend their hard-earned money on imports...
Learn from Hyundai, it may open your eyes more than we ever could, because we discuss theory, and they will represent the "Real World" and real opinions on the cars you have attempted to sell...
So, back to the cleavage... :P ...(It's all I had on my mind anyway)...
Well our meeting this morning included threats from the manager and why we are to blame for not selling cars even though we don't keep the products people want in our inventory.
Fast forward a year. Perhaps your former manager might ask you to be a reference when he applies for an entry sales job at the Hyundai/Nissan/etc dealership in 2010.
I won't let my personal feelings get in my way Marsha7, regarding selling Hyundai's. I personally would rather sell a Genesis, than a Nissan. If I were given a Genesis coupe or sedan for a demo well I'd drive it. I'd love to drive the Sedan blasting some Metallica "Nothing Else Matters" DVD Audio through the 528 watt 7.1 Lexicon surround sound system. :shades: $42K for a loaded up Genesis, is the best car money can buy period and it's union made. :P
Yeah Marsha, go easy on Rocky. The company he loves has imploded. As someone who in sales as well, I can definitely relate to loosing money due to outside forces. The market is flooded with cars, credit is hard to come by, and no one wants to buy big ticket items. Maybe at this new dealership he can be successful and reap the rewards when the market ticks back up. By then there will be less cars and dealers to compete with.
Well with the way dealerships are closing well that is a possibility. Yes gagrice, I know Wayland Chevrolet. I had relatives buy cars from them. I think my dad purchased a pre-owned Trans-Am back in the 1980's from them when we lived in Wayland. I lived in Wayland, MI in 1985-1986, before my parents split up the first time. Dad, just transferred from GM -Burlingame plant to GM Coopersville, MI. GM/Delphi Coopersville opened up in 1985 and he had a long drive but he and my mom wanted to live out of the big city thus moving to the small town which is now basically a suburb of Grand Rapids.
Hope you are right regarding the market ticking back up and life is back to some what normal again in this country. I am still looking as a means to get out of this field all togeather. It's just tough right now and I might be competing with millions more unemployed if the Big 3 go under. :sick:
Well with the way dealerships are closing well that is a possibility.
Don't worry about Chevy. The name will last forever. My next door neighbor has at least 7 Chevys all 100% UAW made. Of course none are newer than 1957. He has 3 of my favorite all time cars. 1955, 56 & 57 Chevy Nomads. He had this drop dead gorgeous 55 Convertible out for a drive last Saturday and I took a few shots. You will see these collected. No one will ever collect a 1995 Camry.
All of the big three won't go under. GM will have its hand held by Obama's administration until they can make money on their own. Canada is so worried about Chrysler that I don't think even they can fail. In three years when we are out of this recession and people who have been waiting to trade in their junkers have enough confidence to do it, you will start making money again.
GM won't be the largest for a long time, but what is wrong with being a solid 3, 4, or 5. I don't see Honda salesman complaining.
>might be competing with millions more unemployed if the Big 3 go under
Some posters have said that the Big 3 going out of business won't affect all the parts suppliers. They'll do just fine, so really there won't be all those high numbers of people out of work. At least that is what a few posters would like to think. I think otherwise. :shades:
Also the auto suppliers just got a $5 billion dollar bailout. They are set up to be prepared in case GM or Chrysler go under.
Also don't feel to bad for Wagoner. He is getting top notch health insurance and a $20+ million severance package. I hope he doesn't start his own dealership; god knows he will run it into the ground.
Well our part supplier companies agree with you imidazol97, that they will go belly up if the Big 3 were too go under. $5 billion wouldn't scratch the surface of the amount of money the supplier companies would need to restructure there operations.
Time will tell, but I can't imagine is costs $5 billion to start making more Toyota parts than GM parts. The market is down, but people will still have to buy cars. $10,000,000 cars will be sold whether they are Chevys, Toyotas, or GMs.
By the time this mess is cleaned up Wagoner will be one of the most hated men in America. Madoff only screwed people out of $50B. Wagoner will be well over $100billion owed to various entities. The UAW retirees will get screwed out of about $40B in healthcare owed to VEBA. If as some say he is a nice guy, and I have no idea. He will have proven again. Nice guys finish last. This is a dog eat dog World. You got to be a Big mean dog to survive in the Corporate World. I would imagine there are UAW people that like him because he was so easy at contract time. That is why GM is BROKE...
Comments
I think the best thing would be for Chrysler to go under. Mercedes got bamboozled into buying an "equal" and Chrysler's world market share is dismal. When Mercedes bastardized them they were left with no R&D and technology. Mercedes can buy Jeep and Nissan can make the Ram.
As for GM, in one for or another they need to stick around. A government aided bankruptcy may be the best choice, but they will keep digging themselves into a hole the way things are now. If they can be the 5th largest automaker and sustain a profit, that is a success,
Let's face it. GM and Chrysler's years of bad products has caught up two fold:
-No one wants to buy their cars
-People hate the companies so much they would rather see them fail
If only the Cimarron had never been made. :lemon:
I agree. Rocky, it's not your fault that GM has the Volt they've been advertising for 3 years that isn't in the showrooms yet. It's not like GM has a Prius or Civic or even a Genesis to sell. That's not your fault. With your passion I'm sure we would all buy from you if we were in MI and you were selling the cars we wanted!
Best of luck in this tough market.
So as this is probably my last post for the evening I will get on here tomorrow and let you guys know how it went down. I have a feeling I won't get positive feedback from the management team but my coworkers probably will appreciate the new guy having enough hair on his you know what to say something.
-Rocky
These are just some examples of how everything can't be blamed on the United Automobile Workers. They can only do the best job they can with the parts they are given. The UAW workers can't make miracles happen!!!
-Rocky
Good night from G-RAP!!!
-Rocky
All of the carbon credit junk and other burdens put on the first world in the name of the environment are simply a scheme to bankrupt the first world to make it easier to submit to the dumbed down globalized new world order.
The plight of the automakers will just be used a distraction from nationalization elsewhere.
And that's the way it's always going to be. He's family, and you're not, so when push comes to shove, he's gonna win every time. I've seen that in other small, family owned/run businesses. Friend of mine works for small, family owned coffee wholesaler. They are still back in the 70's in so far as their bookkeeping is concerned, and she wanted to bring them into the [non-permissible content removed] era. No dice - the owner doesn't understand that new-fangled computer stuff, and paper records and inventory control work just fine, thank you very much.
The total pollution and environmental damage to build a hybrid is greater than a Civic or Corolla or Cobalt is less over their lifetime. We're going to see if Geithner knows how to run an auto company. He hasn't done well at anything else since TARP 1; he hasn't done well at handling the UAW inequity costs problem with the higher paid, older faction thereof.
>I think you can chalk me up for a non-Obama, vote next election.
ROFL
>Hillary, would be light years better than what we got now.
No. No. No. She in last couple of days made statement that we have to protect or take care of the interests of the Chinese. Remember all the money Bill (and SHE) took from the Chinese? She wouldn't be using that to extend the interests of the Old UAW even though she would have used them even more than the NEA in pimping for her election votes.
I think it's going to be funny to see how they spin what this may do to the Old UAW folks. The media will help but it will be something like adding 5 trillion to the total debt over 5 years and saying that we want to cut the debt in half, both at the same time.
>I am removing Barry, from my Myspace friends tonight because of what he is doing to Wagoner.
ROFL!!!
May I say, I told ya?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The criticism of GM is two fold. Aloof management unable to run a company efficiently, in turn loosing billions.
GM's product quality since the 60's. That Pontiac Sunfire is a great example. The Civic and Corrola have developed a loyal fanbase. Would they ever retire that nameplate?
In the past four years, GM has piled up $82 billion in losses.
Tax payers good will is the only reason GM is around.
Chrysler looks gone. Fiat is not , and in this world recession it will be hard for Fiat to justify buying a failing company. Fiat may be in bailout territory as well.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/29/news/companies/motor_world.fortune/index.htm :lemon:
The White House pushed out GM's chairman and directed Chrysler to move quickly to forge a partnership with Fiat if it expects to receive additional government assistance.
President Barack Obama and his top advisers have determined that neither company is viable and that taxpayers will not spend untold billions more to keep the pair of automakers open forever.
In a last-ditch effort, the administration gave each company a brief deadline to try one last time to convince Washington it is worth saving, said senior administration officials who spoke on the condition of anonymity to more bluntly discuss the decision.
Obama was set to make the announcement at 11 a.m. Monday in the White House's foyer.
In an interview with CBS'"Face the Nation" broadcast Sunday, Obama said the companies must do more to receive additional financial aid from the government.
"We think we can have a successful U.S. auto industry. But it's got to be one that's realistically designed to weather this storm and to emerge - at the other end - much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is," Obama said.
Under the terms of a loan agreement reached during the last administration, GM and Chrysler are pushing the United Auto Workers to accept shares of stock in exchange for half of the payments into a union-run trust fund for retiree health care. They also want labor costs from the union to be competitive with Japanese automakers with U.S. operations.
Little progress has been made between the companies and the union.
But Wagoner never followed up his success with Lutz by recruiting other outsiders, leaving it to Ford and Chrysler to recruit Toyota stars Jim Farley and Jim Press.
And despite the clear failure of several staff functions to perform adequately, Wagoner never let anybody go. He despised ritual hangings to keep survivors on their toes and couldn't find it in himself to move anyone aside for poor performance.
The collapse of General Motors is a tragedy in several regards, but nowhere more so than in the case of Wagoner. Having become chief financial officer at the age of 39 during GM's last crisis in 1992, he performed loyally and uncomplainingly throughout his entire career. In other circumstances, he could have been a superstar.
GM earns a large share of its profits from high-margin trucks and SUVs, which are vulnerable to a continuing shift in consumer preference to smaller vehicles. Additionally, while the Chevy Volt holds promise, it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term [ ]GM is at least one generation behind Toyota on advanced, “green” powertrain development. In an attempt to leapfrog Toyota, GM has devoted significant resources to the Chevy Volt. While the Volt holds promise, it is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable.
Chrysler:
On a standalone basis, Chrysler will struggle to comply with increasing fuel efficiency standards, and it may even have to restrict the sale of certain models to make sure it is in accordance with proposed standards.
http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2009/03/30/auto-pilots-gm-chrysler-flu- nk-small-cars-test-says-team-obama/?mod=yahoo_hs
The ironic part about this is that in those other circumstances, you don't need a superstar. When times are good, cars/trucks are selling at 12-15 million units a year, and you're one of the few players in the game, ANYONE can look good. It's when the going gets tough (like now) that the truly great CEOs, those that are really worth their multi-million dollar compensation packages, prove their worth.
He has lost $82 billion in four years. Even when SUV's were selling he could not make a dime.
If Wagoner was running your family business and had lost copious amounts of money over the last eight years would you keep him? :lemon: GM needs an outside thinker. Someone that has not been at GM for so long that they haven't driven a Toyota or Hyundai.
After weeks of reviewing company's operations, the panel concluded GM's current restructuring plan "is not viable" and is not scheduled to reach many of its goals until 2014, according to a memo summarizing its findings that was released late Sunday night.
"A great deal of progress needs to be made," the task force wrote, "and GM's plan contemplates initiatives that will take many years to complete."
Using the threat of withholding additional loans, the task force forced GM Chief Executive Rick Wagoner to step down on Sunday. He will be replaced by Frederick "Fritz" Henderson, currently GM's chief operating officer.
In its memo on the company, the task force also said that the majority of GM's directors would be replaced and that Kent Kresa, a long-time director, would serve as interim chairman.
Despite the pessimistic view on GM's restructuring plan, members of the task force said they are "confident that with a more fundamental restructuring, GM will emerge from this process as a stronger more competitive business."
To help GM, the Obama Administration will provide it with working capital for 60 days to develop a more aggressive restructuring plan.
A five-page summary reviewing GM's financial health is largely an evisceration of the plan GM presented to the task force earlier this year. It challenges the auto maker's rosy projections on almost every front, from how quickly the company expects to lose more U.S. market share to its ability to price competitively to its ability to introduce and sell new, fuel efficient cars.
In one section, the task force examined GM's optimistic view of its sliding market share by recounting its 30-year decline. In 1980s, GM's market share was 45%; last year, it was 22%. But the company only forecasted a rate of decline through 2014 at half the rate it has lost a year for the last three decades - 0.3% a year versus 0.7% annually.
Most important to the task force, the company simply is burning through more cash than it can bring in, "failing a fundamental test of viability," the government panel concluded. Task force members said while they considered many factors, GM's ability to generate future profits is the truest test of the company's viability.
Critics of the company long complained that GM had been saddled by too many brands, too many dealers and too many retirees to whom they had promised generous lifetime health care benefits. Like other U.S. auto makers, GM had also become overly dependent on sales of trucks and SUVs for profits while shunning less profitable cars.
The government body also took aim squarely at the Chevy Volt – GM's heavily hyped electric car of the future – saying it will likely be too expensive to be commercially successful in the short-term.
Looming over all of GM's financial woes is the massive obligation GM has to its retirees. The task force found that GM's own plan to deal with retiree health care and pensions "grow to unsustainable levels, reaching approximately $6 billion per year in 2013 and 2014."
To pay those bills, GM would need to sell 900,000 additional cars per year, according to the panel. GM sold 8.35 million vehicles globally last year.
The company does not clearly address "the lingering consumer perception that GM makes lower-quality cars," the task force found. The implications of that perception mean most consumers will pay less for GM cars against its competitors, forcing the auto maker to entice customers with hefty price reductions through incentives.
"While the Company has made meaningful progress in its turnaround plan over the last few years, the progress has been far too slow, allowing the Company to continue to lag the best-in-class competitors," the government panel concluded.
I hope I'm not the only one finding humor in the administration's team criticizing GM for being over optimistic while the administration reduced the deficit projection to 5 years because the usual 10 years projection used by the office that does that shows the huge ballooning effect of all the deficit spending.
Even the forecast for how quickly we'd get out of this recession was tainted by very high optimism on things that would happen to show a rosy future.
What's missing from the summary is what Bo's administration is going to do about the older high cost UAW folks that are one end of the cost problem.
The other thing missing is the inequity in how the competition cars through the decades were allowed in to undercut the costs of the US automakers.
Same administration is proposing to change rules for companies getting tax breaks now for producing off our shores and for moving production. But the past administrations allowed competition in unlike how other countries allow us to produce or import into their countries.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
rocky: I hope you have the ability to speak the truth to your employer about the obvious situation with inventory...you cannot sell what you do not have, and, in this market, no one wants to wait for you to find one 20 minutes away...
maybe Beth can support YOU and you can be Mr. Mom and take care of the kids of you and Beth (am I rushing this relationship too fast???)
you should always re-evaluate your abilities, but maybe you could have better luck selling a product other than GM...when folks walk into an import dealer, they are already prejudiced toward their quality, whether real or perceived...you might have a better time selling cars that get great write-ups from companies that are farther from bankruptcy than Big 3...
UAW tactics like striking to cripple their own companies finances (do they not know who they work for?) and resisting automation don't help.
Perceptions are really screwed up. We know so much about the company that we can pass judgment on the ins and outs of so many parts of their business, but our knowledge of the quality of their products is left to follow common held perceptions. Even the Bowtie is considered offensive in some circles.
-Rocky
Well our meeting this morning included threats from the manager and why we are to blame for not selling cars even though we don't keep the products people want in our inventory. I made small talk with my sales manager and gave my $0.02 on why we aren't selling cars here. I have a interview Wednesday at the Hyundai, dealership. I will be able to sell Hyundai, Nissan, Dodge, Jeep, Pontiac, GMC, thus I'm not totally away from GM.
-Rocky
-Rocky
-Rocky
Canada should buy Chrysler. Thanks Canadian tax payers.
Don't let poor management discourage you. And don't go out eating pizza and drinking with your bosses kid. Did you know these guys at Wayland Chevrolet?
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1bb20a/300
You will have to widen your circle to include the "treasonous Communists" that actually buy imports and non-UAW products...when you meet them, listen to WHY they buy the imports...don't shut your ears to what they say...they may give you VERY important insights as to why the Big 3 and the UAW are going down...don't hand them the "skilled labor" stuff you hand to us...they will look you in the eye and tell you why they deserted Big 3 brands...and, if you are half as intelligent as gagrice thinks you are (...
If they tell you about dealers who screwed them, or cars that fell apart, or were not well assembled, listen to them, because you will be talking DIRECTLY to the people who could have bought a Big 3 car but didn't...regardless of YOUR opinions, they mean nothing to the person who will never buy a Big 3 car again, so listen to why GM no longer gets their money and you might learn something...
See, that is something you have insulated yourself from for years...you sell UAW, you have UAW family, and you only know UAW products...you need to place yourself in the belly of the beast and talk to the REAL people who have deserted GM forever, and find out why...regardless of what YOU think, it is THEIR money and you would be wise to find out why they buy imports...working at a Chevy Dealer, frankly, will teach you NOTHING about the downfall of the Big 3 because everyone thinks like you do, and everyone worships the ground that the UAW walks on...that gives you ZERO insight into why people spend their hard-earned money on imports...
Learn from Hyundai, it may open your eyes more than we ever could, because we discuss theory, and they will represent the "Real World" and real opinions on the cars you have attempted to sell...
So, back to the cleavage... :P
Fast forward a year. Perhaps your former manager might ask you to be a reference when he applies for an entry sales job at the Hyundai/Nissan/etc dealership in 2010.
-Rocky
The market is flooded with cars, credit is hard to come by, and no one wants to buy big ticket items. Maybe at this new dealership he can be successful and reap the rewards when the market ticks back up. By then there will be less cars and dealers to compete with.
-Rocky
-Rocky
Don't worry about Chevy. The name will last forever. My next door neighbor has at least 7 Chevys all 100% UAW made. Of course none are newer than 1957. He has 3 of my favorite all time cars. 1955, 56 & 57 Chevy Nomads. He had this drop dead gorgeous 55 Convertible out for a drive last Saturday and I took a few shots. You will see these collected. No one will ever collect a 1995 Camry.
In three years when we are out of this recession and people who have been waiting to trade in their junkers have enough confidence to do it, you will start making money again.
GM won't be the largest for a long time, but what is wrong with being a solid 3, 4, or 5. I don't see Honda salesman complaining.
Some posters have said that the Big 3 going out of business won't affect all the parts suppliers. They'll do just fine, so really there won't be all those high numbers of people out of work. At least that is what a few posters would like to think.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also don't feel to bad for Wagoner. He is getting top notch health insurance and a $20+ million severance package. I hope he doesn't start his own dealership; god knows he will run it into the ground.
-Rocky
-Rocky
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxUQcNa_fL8
This is who we need in office. A defender of the american worker.
-Rocky