You have to do better than that. There are dozens of options to Oslo from MI every day. All under a $grand.
Well when I looked at going on vacation there a few years ago it was going to be $2400 bucks per person. We decided to just go to Michigan, instead.
Funny your cousins moved to Canada, mine moved out of Toronto and now live in Branson, MO. They were so happy when they got their US citizenship. They want NO PART or a government sponsored health care plan. They been there and done that. The high taxes far out weighed the benefits in Canada.
Yeah that is funny. Mine looked at it as this country is going to hell and despite the higher taxes the benefits out weighed the taxes. They are very happy they made the move.
Just like the days of the buggy builders. Reality has changed. The dirty industry jobs in the USA are gone NEVER to return. And companies were bailing out of the Midwest in the 1960s for many and various reasons. The poor workforce being the leading cause. They found they could get the same level of unskilled labor in the South or out of the country as they could in the Midwest. By the way they started leaving PA long before they did the Midwest. Unfortunately you are only able to see one side of the coin.
Perhaps you are right and they will never return. I'm holding out hope that they will. We just need somebody like Virgil Bernero to become president and it can be done. it's going to take a great leader with the masses behind him/her to accomplish that goal.
If you think that statement is correct you have been LIED to. The overall unemployment was higher than Michigan is today. Somewhere around 13% for the WHOLE country. Not just your little world.
Ummmm I beg to differ. If we really counted everyone who has ran out of unemployment benefits the percentage would be A LOT higher. Were times tough back then??? I don't doubt it but not nearly as bad as they are today because at least back then if you acquired a job it paid something and the COL wasn't so out of whack. Now if you find a job it's going to be for a lot less than what you were making and the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
We aren't even close to a socialist society. Where is the free education, healthcare, etc?????....The only socialism going on today is for the elites in the financial and oil industry.
I don't know where you get that disrespect the King and be sent to the gulag ideal from...I'd certainly trust Norwegian crime and punishment no less than the broken system here. Sounds more like something from a nation we'd blindly make an ally and then let rape and torture much of a continent for the next 50 years.
I also don't buy that income claim, seeing as Norway is a relatively well to do nation and has much less of an income gap than the US. Skilled worker making 9K per year? No.
Move there. You can get a round trip ticket for $781 on several airlines. I don't think they would take you. You want a King, I think we have one here.
$781 for a round trip??? That is a lot cheaper than what I was looking at a few years ago. :surprise: What's this I want a King, I think we have one here??? The closest thing we have to a King here is Lebron "King" James :P
I can tell you that in the 1950s, 60s & 70s that a larger percentage of the population were working for minimum wage than now.
Well maybe in the South. Going to the restroom also still meant going outside in a wooden upright box with a moon cut out on the door or did you guys have cess pools by then? :P I don't know if I buy that. :confuse:
It was $1.25 when I first started working for someone else in 1957 at 14 years or age. Slave labor, that was me and thankful for the job. Benefits, what were benefits. You are still living in the dream world that was the Midwest. Though I believe if you were allowed to think for yourself as a child you would have been able to see all those NOT in the UAW were far less paid.
A lot of people in manufacturing that were non-union made more money than my family. People quit GM, to go work somewhere else for better pay. You are living in a dream world if you think GM, always paid the highest wages. A lot of non-union companies paid more to keep the union out thus there workers were living on the coat tails of the UAW workers just like the Toyota workers are doing now.
Not even ONE percent of the Michigan population are in the UAW. The rest are scrambling to make a living. CA is in much the same situation. I blame it on high taxes and regulation. You blame it on globalism. I just disagree with you.
Yeah we disagree on the root cause. Hey you can't be right all the time gagrice. Even I'm not. However this time is one of those times I am.
We're probably not far from 13% today, especially as the talking heads used tweaked numbers to create artificial optimism, and the underemployed aren't counted in anything.
We didn't fight for freedom, we (as in our soldiers) fought for the profit and ego of a few. Nobody was really liberated due to this fighting, only sold from one slavery to another. WW1 and WW2, which claimed so many of our good men, did nothing but dig western civilization into a deep hole from which it will possibly never recover.
A lot of people want to come here, but usually from corrupt third world hellholes or those who fear a bad future in Europe due to the postwar mismanagement. Doesn't say much.
The rich won't leave the poor alone, they will squeeze the turnips until there is nothing left. Who benefits from the mass exodus of living wage jobs? And who pays for it? The gap is at its greatest point since before the depression. This is just going to get worse. The Belle Epoque was not a time of justice.
Sadly neither political party makes any inroads to that smaller government ideal. I agree the public servants at every level need to be trimmed...but who will do this? It might take more than simple elections...but the globalists will have the masses under perpetual surveillance by then, so it might be tough to pull off. Just as the pro and anti union ideal is a pendulum, so is big and small government...but this time the controllers seek to break the pendulum as the Orwellian ideal becomes reality.
Corporate interests are no more trustworthy than socialist government interests.
This deserves a response. My question is WHAT HAS THE UAW DONE FOR THE POOR? Have they made life better for those in the ghettos of Detroit, Chicago, New Orleans or Killadelphia? Or are they like Oprah and Obama? They want to take care of the poor with OPM (other people's money). Raising the wages for a few of the workers only make it more expensive of those on the bottom. And from my perspective we have as many on the bottom today as we did when I was a kid. I don't believe for a minute that the UAW has helped the poor no matter what their race may be. You can try to make it a racial issue it just does not fly with me. I was raised in black churches from the time I was about 8 years old. I have dated black girls when I was a teen. Some were as poor as us, some were not. Socialism only pushes the poor out of sight and takes their incentive to get out of the ghetto.
I must of hit a nerve? I was speaking about the facts. If you are truly that naive to say that the UAW didn't raise the standard of living for minorities in this country you are seriously ignorant.
The UAW was one of the first major unions that was willing to organize African-American workers. The UAW rapidly found success in organizing with the sit-down strike — first in a General Motors plant in Atlanta, Georgia in 1936, and more famously in the Flint sit-down strike that began on December 29, 1936. That strike ended in February 1937 after Michigan's governor Frank Murphy played the role of mediator, negotiating recognition of the UAW by General Motors. The next month, auto workers at Chrysler won recognition of the UAW as their representative in a sit-down strike.
Some day the reality will hit you. Those UAW workers in your family were at the TOP of the heap. The poor DID NOT benefit one iota as a result of the UAW workers making top tier wages.
You are naive and blind. If it wasn't for organizations such as the UAW getting behind Dr. King minorities would still be slaves. They also benefited from the wages and benefits won by the UAW. I'm shocked you are arguing that especially one who was a former teamster. :confuse: The Teamsters faught for civil rights well right a long side of the UAW. Don't you know your unions history??? :confuse:
You really need to make that trip to Norway to learn the facts about living in a society where they tax the workers to death and the King rides around in luxury. If you want to drive in Norway you need to own the bank. Gas is the highest of any place on earth. Better get in shape as they will only let the janitors ride a bike. If they would even allow you to work there. I am very doubtful your blood lines will get you into that closed society. They have less than half the population of Michigan in the whole country.
I could fly in and prove my heritage. Hell they have allowed some muslims to move in. You really need to practice what you preach to me regarding looking at history and getting the facts Ulabrand is my relative and my great-great grandfather was European Sailboat champion in years 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, before coming to America because he was suppose to sail for Lipton Tea Company.
I think Mr. Fintail like usual has fact found some of your rhetoric and propaganda. I guess all that ranting was for nothing, eh? :P
I am first and foremost a family person. I value my family more than anything else on this earth and put it at #1 on my priority list above my career and everything else. I am a mix breed thus Norway isn't 100% my motherland. I am at least half German and I also have some Danish blood in me with small touches of English, Irish, Scotish. I look German and Scandinavian though. My relatives in Larvik, say I look Norwegian.
I am an Aryan, and bow my head to the Swastika everyday.
Draw your own conclusions.
Well I don't despite having [non-permissible content removed] relatives who died in Germany. I am not very sympathetic for them. How can you be such a free marketeer and not nationalistic and be a [non-permissible content removed]??? That again makes zero sense. :confuse: If you would pick up your history book the [non-permissible content removed] Party was National Socialist German Workers' Party.
I am pretty sure folks who think US is the world will rile up against me and try to ban me from this site. My argument is that learn world history before you even think of doing that.
I agree you should read that history book again before posting. :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
Anyways, back to UAW, working class and equal rights. It is always a fight. Workers will fight with owners and vice versa to prove who is superior. I like that. But to come up with equality bs is just that...BS.
You have to fight for equal rights or otherwise favoritism will prevail. There is no perfect way to judge who should and who shouldn't get a raise or the next job. The best proven approach while flawed is seniority and qualifications. We have seen in government and management that if you rub the right elbows you can become anything even if you aren't qualified. I personally think the majority of the world will contine to operate under that very flawed system of it's not what you know but who you know. Just my $0.02
2004 to 2007 We were selling 16-17 million vehicles per year. I would call that booming. Why didn't GM make money when they were offering better deals than the Imports? Because they sold crap for the most part.
Trust me dad would switch retirement benefits with you gagrice in a New York second.
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
FDR is arguably the greatest president of all-time. His job was simpler due to the fact that he wasn't competing on a global scale
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
Well maybe in the South.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
2004 to 2007 We were selling 16-17 million vehicles per year. I would call that booming. Why didn't GM make money when they were offering better deals than the Imports? Because they sold crap for the most part.
Trust me dad would switch retirement benefits with you gagrice in a New York second.
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
FDR is arguably the greatest president of all-time. His job was simpler due to the fact that he wasn't competing on a global scale
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
Well maybe in the South.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
The rich won't leave the poor alone, they will squeeze the turnips until there is nothing left. Who benefits from the mass exodus of living wage jobs? And who pays for it? The gap is at its greatest point since before the depression. This is just going to get worse.
I agree it will probably get worse. It is no where close to the Great Depression. It is still a long ways from the late 1970s. Not sure what you were doing then. The family farmers were destroyed in the late 1970s. Most of the land was bought up cheap by the mega farms. If the government said it was 13% then it was probably more if what you are saying is correct. I know in Alaska we went through two real housing bubbles. 1978-80 the price of houses went down by 50%. They did the same in about 1991. Not sure about the rest of the country in 1991 as that was following the Gulf war. It killed property values in Hawaii also. My timing was good on those two places. Not so good on the current one in CA. Stuck with two houses and 3 mortgages. Good tax write-off is all that is good about it.
Free marketeers are the employers...EVERYTHING you have. EVERYTHING generated a profit for someone. From the fork in a drawer to the car in your driveway. Government creates nothing..They take money from people who generate income starting businesses and hiring employees. EVERY time you get a check from ANYONE you are participating in "trickle down economics" . Poor people don't employ rich people.
We the tax payers are employing many rich people right now. It takes poor people to make money for the rich people aka "employers" thus your Misean economics while somewhat true are also flawed also. The poor people buy the majority of goods and services and should have a better say on what stays and what goes not the elites like we have now.
Next time you are in a resturant...thank the server for great service then tell them you are going to give his tip to the unemployed pan handler on the street.....There's your Socialist society. I did exactly this to prove a point to a server wearing an Obama button.....I think she "got it"
I doubt she did because if she would of been wearing a McSame button instead of it going to the pan handler out on the street it would instead go towards another bailout for the socialist for the wealthy neocon globalist. If I would of been your server that is what I would of told you.
A government that takes from the productive to give to the unproductive will run out of productive people to take from....
You are right. I just wished you and your party would practice what you preach. The unproductive on Wall Street sucked $700 billion from the tax payers and now that Obama and this Congress want to track where that money is being spent or saved they are whining about it. They are making the pan handler out on the street look like money well spent.and it was a lot cheaper sending a few bucks to him so he/she can eat.
I know this if the government takes more of my money...they will cause the letting go of one of my employees...I WON"T take a cut in pay. I will just let go of an employee...or raise prices to cover the added expense. Either way I'm not going to earn any less. I am the one who paid to send myself through school and joined the service to get the GI BIll. I am the one who lived in an apartment for 25 years trying to get my business off the ground. I finally have achieved success and even put my homes up as collateral to expand my business. Hired more employees and at 49 years old I make a good living and have taken care of my own retirement. No one will tell me how much my employees should make. They earn what they will work for and according to how VALUABLE they are individually. The same job could pay from $8 to $15 an hour. Favorites? YOU BET! The favorites are those who increase the business profit and generate more productivity. Those who don't get raises eventually quit. This ENSURES a highly productive workforce.
Catch a clue.........
But what if your business fails who's going to do the paying then???
You are right. I just wished you and your party would practice what you preach. The unproductive on Wall Street sucked $700 billion from the tax payers and now that Obama and this Congress want to track where that money is being spent or saved they are whining about it
Obama and Geithner are the ones refusing to give accounting for the TARP money. Geithner is protecting his buddies in the banking industry.
We the tax payers are employing many rich people right now.
Hang onto your wallet Rocky, You ain't seen nothing yet. On that Fintail and I agree. It makes little difference who sits in the oval office. You heard your main man Soros. He is happy with the recession he has made $billions in currency manipulation. That is his specialty. His Quantum Hedge Fund is very big in everything you all hate about globalism.
Google is your friend, dude, google is your friend. Even that ridiculous puppet PM in the future Sharia state of Great Britain uses the term in describing the ridiculous unified bailout of financial entities in this so-called recession.
If there is a new world order of the power you speak, then I'm sure Google has been co-opted. So that's not a good source. Remember, the press is part of the conspiracy. :P
The issue of how much regulation has been debated for eons and it will continue to be debated for eons to come. IMO, the banking industry needs more regulation. They shot themselves in the foot both in 1929 and 2008, and you and I are suffering for it.
You are right on. I have libertarian-leaning views but even I recognize that a bit more regulation here would have helped prevent us all losing a bunch of our retirement money. One of the problems is allowing corporations to acquire each other to the point of oligopoly, where each is "too big to fail" and therefore in this case the government had to step in to prevent catastrophe.
Oligopoly - A market dominated by a small number of participants who are able to collectively exert control over supply and market prices
I also get riled up when the workers think they are the ones who "made" the company, when their jobs were created by someone other than themselves...that is also why when workers strike, the employer has every right to can them and hire new workers to repalce them...the one who creates the job is the one who controls the pay...if the worker does not like it, they have the complete freedom to leave, work somewhere else, or start their own business and take the risk (there it is, that risk factor again, the one factor that the employee will NEVER take out of fear...but they want the profits of the employer, the one who took the risk...to that I say NO!!!)...
I don't see any one individual assuming allthe risk at these large nulti-national corporations thus your theory outside of the mom and pa shop is flawed.
The UAW has been insulated from the real world for half a century...the fact that rocky actually thinks that floorsweeping is a skill that should be paid $25 hour means that he lives in a dream world, because it isn't worth the minimum wage paid back in Reagan's day, and it isn't worth that now...
For the millionth time there isn't any floor sweepers making $25 an hour nor is there any lug nut assemblers either. Your ranting isn't going to make it so!!!
Rocky, if you want socialism, please go where it already runs the nation as you would like it, so you can have all your needs taken car of by a benevolent gov't so you won't have to do a thing...don't change us any more than we have, because some of us accept the fact of winners and losers, and it is strikingly obvious that you do not accept that fact...I wonder how Beth feels about someone taking her hard earned money from her 20-plus sales last month and giving it to someone who refuses to work, altho quite able-bodied...that is what you would do rocky, if you could, because you simply cannot stand to see a winner, and you would use gov't power to take confiscate STEAL her money because you can't stand to see someone win in the game of capitalism...
She has had a lot more of her money stolen from the socialist for the rich. Beth and I disagree on a lot of things political wise. I'm okay with winners and losers but the playing field for some guy in this country who wants to start a business can't compete with his competition that is making a like product for pennies on the dollar using slave labor. That is where you and many others are blinder than Steve Wonder. Perhaps if we took my idea's of tariffing the imports making those companies come back here to compete on a level playing field then we could really see who are the winners and losers in your free market, no??? That's a bad idea right?? :confuse:
she is a winner because she is accomplishing great profits, but your thinking would drag her down to everyone else who only sells 1-2 cars monthly, because everyone should be EQUAL in your utopian society...keep your hands out of her wallet and keep it out of mine, because we worked hard for our money and can't stand to see it given to the worthless, useless and shiftless for doing nothing but eating donuts...
She is a winner but if we lived in your golden eutopia of out of control capitalism there would be no one left to buy cars because every job would be shipped to China, Mexico, India, thus she would be dead broke anyways because the top 1% isn't buying Chevy's that she sells they are buying Maybach's, Bentley's, Benzes, Rolls Royces, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's. Get it??? Probably not!!! :sick:
You are very funny. My great aunt about 8 years back who lives in Oregon, was considering living part of the year in Norway, and applying for dual citizenship because she loved it there so much. I would be welcomed with open arms but would have to adjust to there culture.
Wagoner couldn't turn a giant ship like GM around over night. With years of abuse from Roger and Jack Smith it was going to take years to develop the R&D needed to steer that big ship in safer waters. Remember GM isn't some Ma and Pa outfit like you were use to working for thus it takes A LOT longer!!!!!
Wagoner couldn't turn a big ship over 14 years! Dud after dud due to his wisdom:
I thought he was the best CEO ever. He's the one that agreed to the VEBA that GM could never afford. He hired KLutz who first knocked hybrids, then later thought they were the best things since sliced bread.
If you want to see a fast turnaround by a big company, look at Hyundai. Now THERE'S a company that is really making a difference with great new products. Hyundai adds extended warranty - GM follows. Hyundai adds job loss protection - GM follows. GM always FOLLOWS. Even Ford is making big strides. GM is not leading in anything other than a downward spiral. Pretty sad for such a big company.
Fintail, It use to be that if you wanted to move to Norway, you had to prove heritage "blood" which I can easily due. However that has all changed because some years ago they opened up there borders and culture to foreigners something I didn't agree with.
Demography
Main article: Demography of Norway
Demographics in NorwayAs of 2009, Norway's population numbered 4.8 million. Most Norwegians are ethnic Norwegians, a North Germanic people. The Sami people traditionally inhabit central and northern parts of Norway and Sweden, as well as in northern Finland and in Russia on the Kola Peninsula. Another national minority are the Kven people who are the descendants of Finnish speaking people that moved to northern Norway in the 18th up to the 20th century. Both the Sami and the Kven were subjected to a strong assimilation policy by the Norwegian government from the 19th century up to the 1970s.[33] Because of this "Norwegianisation process", many families of Sami or Kven ancestry now self-identify as ethnic Norwegian.[34] This, combined with a long history of co-habitation of the Sami and North Germanic peoples on the Scandinavian peninsula, makes claims about ethnic population statistics less straightforward than is often suggested[original research?] — particularly in central and northern Norway. Other groups recognized as national minorities of Norway are Jews, Forest Finns, Roma/Gypsies and Romani people/Travellers.
In recent years, immigration has accounted for more than half of Norway's population growth. According to Statistics Norway (SSB), a record 61,200 immigrants arrived in the country in 2007 — 35% higher than 2006. At the beginning of 2008, there were 459,600 persons in Norway with an immigrant background (i.e. immigrants, or born of immigrant parents), comprising 9.7% of the total population. 350,000 of these were from a non-Western background, which includes the formerly Communist countries according to the definition used by Statistics Norway. The largest immigrant groups by country of origin, in order of size, are Poles, Pakistanis, Swedes, Iraqis, Somalis, Vietnamese, Danes, and Germans.[35] Norwegians of Pakistani descent are the largest visible minority group in Norway, with most of its 59,000 members living around Oslo. The Iraqi immigrant population has shown a large increase in recent years. After the enlargement of the EU in 2004, there has also been an influx of immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe, particularly Poland. The largest increase in 2007 was of immigrants from Poland, Germany, Sweden, Lithuania and Russia.[36][37]
We aren't even close to a socialist society. Where is the free education, healthcare, etc?????....
Uhhh - education is free through high school. Community colleges cost very little. If you are poor your healthcare is free at your local ER courtesy the taxes of the "elites".
I would imagine they are all government controlled. You say anything bad about the King and you are demoted to picking after the horses in the parades. Or sent out to spend the winter on a drill rig in the North Sea. I think Rocky would have a REAL eye opener if he were to venture back to the homeland..
LOL.... You are freaken hilarious!!! You are more entertaining than Rush and about as factual as him also!!!
So the average Norwegian union Skilled worker makes less than $9000 US per year. They pay $8 per gallon for gas. I hope they don't have a long drive to work. I guess that leaves Rocky out. He would not be able to afford a plane ticket.
I think Fintail, proved your $9,000 wage theory was about as accurate as the spew coming from Fixed News. You just don't stop do you??? :P
Maybe not worse in terms of unemployment or economic malaise...but in terms of the socio-economic gap...we are already there. A return to a late 19th century labor standard is a guarantee at this rate. But this time there will not be a new west for people to find escape and opportunity. And this time the globalists have the technology to watch the masses in perpetuity to prevent any organization against them.
Uhhh - education is free through high school. Community colleges cost very little. How about University expenses. My ex has $50K in student loans thus yeah that is very little. :surprise: Okay!!!
If you are poor your healthcare is free at your local ER courtesy the taxes of the "elites".
We the tax payers are employing many rich people right now. It takes poor people to make money for the rich people aka "employers" thus your Misean economics while somewhat true are also flawed also.
You have it backwards. The top 10% of income earners pay 70% of income taxes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay 3% of income taxes in the US:
So let's reverse your statement. In the United States, the rich people right now are covering the costs for most of the poor people. It really sounds like the elitists are taking advantage of the common folk . This must be that "new world order".
Perhaps the common folk are too dependent and should pay more? I do agree that the wage and income gaps should be narrowed. But by that same definition, globalization is good. The poorer countries are getting richer and the richest countries are under pressure. Which way do you want it to be? If you want high paying jobs staying in the US you are an elitist vs. poorer countries. If you want common folk's standard of living to rise you want the globalization process which is occurring. Or do you only want the best for those in the U.S.? Isn't that a selfish from a world view?
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
I wished Marsha7 and gagrice would drop the Mises book and take in what "Honest Abe" said many years ago. Great Post cooterbfd!!!
Who defines what is reasonable? Quite a few crony capitalist "entrepreneurs" benefit from sweatshop labor both at home and abroad. These people will vote GOP simply to diminish their own personal tax obligations. Not reasonable.
UAW compensation is often not reasonable...but neither is the polar opposite.
That is a great question. Hell what have they done for working class people in general?
They create jobs for people willing to work for a reasonable wage. Not some UAW inflated wage for the unskilled untrained masses.
Well unfortunately the Republicans are also all for those who break the law by sneaking into this country illegally to get jobs and citizenship. I guess that's helping working-class people. What ever happened to the rule of law? On this Rocky and I agree.
What percentage of income and wealth are held by that top 10%?
And likewise for that bottom 50%?
Society exists for the benefit of the top few, and they can pay the most to maintain it. Wars are fought and men die so the elite can prosper. Let em pay, and they can pay more. It's the only responsibility many will take in their lives.
Elitism is a human condition. Western civilization should not commit suicide so a few globalist cowards can profit and lie about it being for the benefit of less developed regions. This altriusm angle is a disgusting lie.
Why are so many Americans handicapped by medical debt then?
I said you needed to be poor. If you are poor you are covered (perhaps not well, but covered). If you are rich you can afford it. If you are middle-class then you are screwed unless you have insurance from your employer.
I agree that this has to change. It is ridiculous.
I am trying to be less off topic. You can research it yourself.
We get it. You smarmy one-worlders don't like to admit to any kind of collusion or united ideal to make a dumbed down standard for the masses of the planet, at the expense of the future of what was the western world. Point taken.
I used to work helping to develop credit scoring models for my employer. In analyzing the results I would often examine individual random applicants, and see why they scored as they did. The amount of medical debt among people who don't have much of a pot to piss in to begin with (judging by their other trades) is staggering. These aren't middle class people by my definition anyway, and they are handicapped pretty much forever from it.
I disagree. If there are such planned controls on most of the masses as you suggest, then certainly a tool used by most of the masses to get information must be controlled. I can't understand how you wouldn't be suspicious!
On another note, I notice from your profile you may be in Canada. What is your take on the health care quality. Do most citizens feel the system is good? Is the satisfaction generally pro, con, or mixed?
I bet if you can get your aunt to sponsor you once/if she gets in, you'd have less hurdles to clear. If you want it, go for it
But, personally I believe Europe is going to be no better off in the future than the US, and possibly worse. Even with the EUSSR enhancing thought control and censorship, I see a powder keg developing. I love Europe, but I don't know if I want to be there in 40 years.
You smarmy one-worlders don't like to admit to any kind of collusion or united ideal to make a dumbed down standard for the masses of the planet, at the expense of the future of what was the western world.
Agree we're getting off topic. I'll just let your statement above stand, and others can judge its rationality.
The theories are out there. The thought police, who do exist, do not censor all. Remain above suspicion and all that
I am not in Canada, but from what I know most people there are at least tolerant of their system. It has quite a few flaws, but is not a complete disaster. It will probably develop into some kind of half private hybrid, as ours might have to go the other way.
2004 to 2007 We were selling 16-17 million vehicles per year. I would call that booming. Why didn't GM make money when they were offering better deals than the Imports? Because they sold crap for the most part.
The banks were giving loans away like they were with housing. No credit, no job, no problem!!!! Gary seriously I think you know better but are only trying to get under my skin aren't chya. :P
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
Dad went from the Navy to working at GM. He was from Michigan and good jobs were plentiful around here.
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
Where do you come up with this stuff. I'm a history buff and never heard such rhetoric about FDR. You liberatarian think tanks scholars sure come up with some conspiracy theories.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
How much would it cost for bullet proof glass. You can't buy any home around here in G-Rap that cheap otherwise I'd be moving.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
I don't know if he will get it passed. Too many on the right and left are opposed to it. The majority of this country is opposed to it. Look at every poll.
We're probably not far from 13% today, especially as the talking heads used tweaked numbers to create artificial optimism, and the underemployed aren't counted in anything.
Absolutely true!!!
If we counted all the unemployed here in Michigan that have ran out of benefits it is estimated to be around 18% and that isn't counting underemployed.
Comments
Well when I looked at going on vacation there a few years ago it was going to be $2400 bucks per person. We decided to just go to Michigan, instead.
Funny your cousins moved to Canada, mine moved out of Toronto and now live in Branson, MO. They were so happy when they got their US citizenship. They want NO PART or a government sponsored health care plan. They been there and done that. The high taxes far out weighed the benefits in Canada.
Yeah that is funny. Mine looked at it as this country is going to hell and despite the higher taxes the benefits out weighed the taxes. They are very happy they made the move.
Just like the days of the buggy builders. Reality has changed. The dirty industry jobs in the USA are gone NEVER to return. And companies were bailing out of the Midwest in the 1960s for many and various reasons. The poor workforce being the leading cause. They found they could get the same level of unskilled labor in the South or out of the country as they could in the Midwest. By the way they started leaving PA long before they did the Midwest. Unfortunately you are only able to see one side of the coin.
Perhaps you are right and they will never return. I'm holding out hope that they will. We just need somebody like Virgil Bernero to become president and it can be done. it's going to take a great leader with the masses behind him/her to accomplish that goal.
-Rocky
Ummmm I beg to differ. If we really counted everyone who has ran out of unemployment benefits the percentage would be A LOT higher. Were times tough back then??? I don't doubt it but not nearly as bad as they are today because at least back then if you acquired a job it paid something and the COL wasn't so out of whack. Now if you find a job it's going to be for a lot less than what you were making and the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
-Rocky
-Rocky
I also don't buy that income claim, seeing as Norway is a relatively well to do nation and has much less of an income gap than the US. Skilled worker making 9K per year? No.
http://www.worldsalaries.org/norway.shtml
$781 for a round trip??? That is a lot cheaper than what I was looking at a few years ago. :surprise: What's this I want a King, I think we have one here??? The closest thing we have to a King here is Lebron "King" James :P
I can tell you that in the 1950s, 60s & 70s that a larger percentage of the population were working for minimum wage than now.
Well maybe in the South. Going to the restroom also still meant going outside in a wooden upright box with a moon cut out on the door or did you guys have cess pools by then? :P I don't know if I buy that. :confuse:
It was $1.25 when I first started working for someone else in 1957 at 14 years or age. Slave labor, that was me and thankful for the job. Benefits, what were benefits. You are still living in the dream world that was the Midwest. Though I believe if you were allowed to think for yourself as a child you would have been able to see all those NOT in the UAW were far less paid.
A lot of people in manufacturing that were non-union made more money than my family. People quit GM, to go work somewhere else for better pay. You are living in a dream world if you think GM, always paid the highest wages. A lot of non-union companies paid more to keep the union out thus there workers were living on the coat tails of the UAW workers just like the Toyota workers are doing now.
Not even ONE percent of the Michigan population are in the UAW. The rest are scrambling to make a living. CA is in much the same situation. I blame it on high taxes and regulation. You blame it on globalism. I just disagree with you.
Yeah we disagree on the root cause. Hey you can't be right all the time gagrice. Even I'm not. However this time is one of those times I am.
-Rocky
-Rocky
A lot of people want to come here, but usually from corrupt third world hellholes or those who fear a bad future in Europe due to the postwar mismanagement. Doesn't say much.
The rich won't leave the poor alone, they will squeeze the turnips until there is nothing left. Who benefits from the mass exodus of living wage jobs? And who pays for it? The gap is at its greatest point since before the depression. This is just going to get worse. The Belle Epoque was not a time of justice.
Sadly neither political party makes any inroads to that smaller government ideal. I agree the public servants at every level need to be trimmed...but who will do this? It might take more than simple elections...but the globalists will have the masses under perpetual surveillance by then, so it might be tough to pull off. Just as the pro and anti union ideal is a pendulum, so is big and small government...but this time the controllers seek to break the pendulum as the Orwellian ideal becomes reality.
Corporate interests are no more trustworthy than socialist government interests.
I must of hit a nerve?
The UAW was one of the first major unions that was willing to organize African-American workers. The UAW rapidly found success in organizing with the sit-down strike — first in a General Motors plant in Atlanta, Georgia in 1936, and more famously in the Flint sit-down strike that began on December 29, 1936. That strike ended in February 1937 after Michigan's governor Frank Murphy played the role of mediator, negotiating recognition of the UAW by General Motors. The next month, auto workers at Chrysler won recognition of the UAW as their representative in a sit-down strike.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Auto_Workers
http://www.uaw.org/about/uawmembership.html
http://www.uaw897.com/Front%20Page/feb08/mlk_marching.html
http://www.iamtheuaw.org/files/mlk1.JPG
I rest my case!!!!
Some day the reality will hit you. Those UAW workers in your family were at the TOP of the heap. The poor DID NOT benefit one iota as a result of the UAW workers making top tier wages.
You are naive and blind. If it wasn't for organizations such as the UAW getting behind Dr. King minorities would still be slaves. They also benefited from the wages and benefits won by the UAW. I'm shocked you are arguing that especially one who was a former teamster. :confuse: The Teamsters faught for civil rights well right a long side of the UAW. Don't you know your unions history??? :confuse:
You really need to make that trip to Norway to learn the facts about living in a society where they tax the workers to death and the King rides around in luxury. If you want to drive in Norway you need to own the bank. Gas is the highest of any place on earth. Better get in shape as they will only let the janitors ride a bike. If they would even allow you to work there. I am very doubtful your blood lines will get you into that closed society. They have less than half the population of Michigan in the whole country.
I could fly in and prove my heritage. Hell they have allowed some muslims to move in. You really need to practice what you preach to me regarding looking at history and getting the facts Ulabrand is my relative and my great-great grandfather was European Sailboat champion in years 1900, 1901, 1902, 1903, before coming to America because he was suppose to sail for Lipton Tea Company.
I think Mr. Fintail like usual has fact found some of your rhetoric and propaganda. I guess all that ranting was for nothing, eh? :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
I am an Aryan, and bow my head to the Swastika everyday.
Draw your own conclusions.
Well I don't despite having [non-permissible content removed] relatives who died in Germany. I am not very sympathetic for them. How can you be such a free marketeer and not nationalistic and be a [non-permissible content removed]??? That again makes zero sense. :confuse: If you would pick up your history book the [non-permissible content removed] Party was National Socialist German Workers' Party.
I am pretty sure folks who think US is the world will rile up against me and try to ban me from this site. My argument is that learn world history before you even think of doing that.
I agree you should read that history book again before posting. :surprise: :surprise: :surprise:
Anyways, back to UAW, working class and equal rights. It is always a fight. Workers will fight with owners and vice versa to prove who is superior. I like that. But to come up with equality bs is just that...BS.
You have to fight for equal rights or otherwise favoritism will prevail. There is no perfect way to judge who should and who shouldn't get a raise or the next job. The best proven approach while flawed is seniority and qualifications. We have seen in government and management that if you rub the right elbows you can become anything even if you aren't qualified. I personally think the majority of the world will contine to operate under that very flawed system of it's not what you know but who you know. Just my $0.02
-Rocky
2004 to 2007 We were selling 16-17 million vehicles per year. I would call that booming. Why didn't GM make money when they were offering better deals than the Imports? Because they sold crap for the most part.
Trust me dad would switch retirement benefits with you gagrice in a New York second.
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
FDR is arguably the greatest president of all-time. His job was simpler due to the fact that he wasn't competing on a global scale
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
Well maybe in the South.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
Oh, you do an excellent job of putting them in their place already. Carry on the battle, soldier.
2004 to 2007 We were selling 16-17 million vehicles per year. I would call that booming. Why didn't GM make money when they were offering better deals than the Imports? Because they sold crap for the most part.
Trust me dad would switch retirement benefits with you gagrice in a New York second.
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
FDR is arguably the greatest president of all-time. His job was simpler due to the fact that he wasn't competing on a global scale
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
the COL is still out of whack and hasn't adjusted to the conditions of this market.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
Well maybe in the South.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
I agree it will probably get worse. It is no where close to the Great Depression. It is still a long ways from the late 1970s. Not sure what you were doing then. The family farmers were destroyed in the late 1970s. Most of the land was bought up cheap by the mega farms. If the government said it was 13% then it was probably more if what you are saying is correct. I know in Alaska we went through two real housing bubbles. 1978-80 the price of houses went down by 50%. They did the same in about 1991. Not sure about the rest of the country in 1991 as that was following the Gulf war. It killed property values in Hawaii also. My timing was good on those two places. Not so good on the current one in CA. Stuck with two houses and 3 mortgages. Good tax write-off is all that is good about it.
We the tax payers are employing many rich people right now. It takes poor people to make money for the rich people aka "employers" thus your Misean economics while somewhat true are also flawed also. The poor people buy the majority of goods and services and should have a better say on what stays and what goes not the elites like we have now.
Next time you are in a resturant...thank the server for great service then tell them you are going to give his tip to the unemployed pan handler on the street.....There's your Socialist society. I did exactly this to prove a point to a server wearing an Obama button.....I think she "got it"
I doubt she did because if she would of been wearing a McSame button instead of it going to the pan handler out on the street it would instead go towards another bailout for the socialist for the wealthy neocon globalist.
A government that takes from the productive to give to the unproductive will run out of productive people to take from....
You are right. I just wished you and your party would practice what you preach. The unproductive on Wall Street sucked $700 billion from the tax payers and now that Obama and this Congress want to track where that money is being spent or saved they are whining about it. They are making the pan handler out on the street look like money well spent.and it was a lot cheaper sending a few bucks to him so he/she can eat.
I know this if the government takes more of my money...they will cause the letting go of one of my employees...I WON"T take a cut in pay. I will just let go of an employee...or raise prices to cover the added expense. Either way I'm not going to earn any less. I am the one who paid to send myself through school and joined the service to get the GI BIll. I am the one who lived in an apartment for 25 years trying to get my business off the ground. I finally have achieved success and even put my homes up as collateral to expand my business. Hired more employees and at 49 years old I make a good living and have taken care of my own retirement. No one will tell me how much my employees should make. They earn what they will work for and according to how VALUABLE they are individually. The same job could pay from $8 to $15 an hour. Favorites? YOU BET! The favorites are those who increase the business profit and generate more productivity. Those who don't get raises eventually quit. This ENSURES a highly productive workforce.
Catch a clue.........
But what if your business fails who's going to do the paying then???
-Rocky
-Rocky
Agree
Oh yeah, what has the GOP "done for the poor"?
That is a great question. Hell what have they done for working class people in general????
-Rocky
Obama and Geithner are the ones refusing to give accounting for the TARP money. Geithner is protecting his buddies in the banking industry.
We the tax payers are employing many rich people right now.
Hang onto your wallet Rocky, You ain't seen nothing yet. On that Fintail and I agree. It makes little difference who sits in the oval office. You heard your main man Soros. He is happy with the recession he has made $billions in currency manipulation. That is his specialty. His Quantum Hedge Fund is very big in everything you all hate about globalism.
They create jobs for people willing to work for a reasonable wage. Not some UAW inflated wage for the unskilled untrained masses.
You keep mentioning "powers that be". I smell a conspiracy. Who are these mysterious powers?
If there is a new world order of the power you speak, then I'm sure Google has been co-opted. So that's not a good source. Remember, the press is part of the conspiracy. :P
It's starting to look like a replay of Eastern Airlines.
You are right on. I have libertarian-leaning views but even I recognize that a bit more regulation here would have helped prevent us all losing a bunch of our retirement money. One of the problems is allowing corporations to acquire each other to the point of oligopoly, where each is "too big to fail" and therefore in this case the government had to step in to prevent catastrophe.
Oligopoly - A market dominated by a small number of participants who are able to collectively exert control over supply and market prices
I don't see any one individual assuming allthe risk at these large nulti-national corporations thus your theory outside of the mom and pa shop is flawed.
The UAW has been insulated from the real world for half a century...the fact that rocky actually thinks that floorsweeping is a skill that should be paid $25 hour means that he lives in a dream world, because it isn't worth the minimum wage paid back in Reagan's day, and it isn't worth that now...
For the millionth time there isn't any floor sweepers making $25 an hour nor is there any lug nut assemblers either. Your ranting isn't going to make it so!!!
Rocky, if you want socialism, please go where it already runs the nation as you would like it, so you can have all your needs taken car of by a benevolent gov't so you won't have to do a thing...don't change us any more than we have, because some of us accept the fact of winners and losers, and it is strikingly obvious that you do not accept that fact...I wonder how Beth feels about someone taking her hard earned money from her 20-plus sales last month and giving it to someone who refuses to work, altho quite able-bodied...that is what you would do rocky, if you could, because you simply cannot stand to see a winner, and you would use gov't power to take confiscate STEAL her money because you can't stand to see someone win in the game of capitalism...
She has had a lot more of her money stolen from the socialist for the rich. Beth and I disagree on a lot of things political wise. I'm okay with winners and losers but the playing field for some guy in this country who wants to start a business can't compete with his competition that is making a like product for pennies on the dollar using slave labor. That is where you and many others are blinder than Steve Wonder. Perhaps if we took my idea's of tariffing the imports making those companies come back here to compete on a level playing field then we could really see who are the winners and losers in your free market, no??? That's a bad idea right?? :confuse:
she is a winner because she is accomplishing great profits, but your thinking would drag her down to everyone else who only sells 1-2 cars monthly, because everyone should be EQUAL in your utopian society...keep your hands out of her wallet and keep it out of mine, because we worked hard for our money and can't stand to see it given to the worthless, useless and shiftless for doing nothing but eating donuts...
She is a winner but if we lived in your golden eutopia of out of control capitalism there would be no one left to buy cars because every job would be shipped to China, Mexico, India, thus she would be dead broke anyways because the top 1% isn't buying Chevy's that she sells they are buying Maybach's, Bentley's, Benzes, Rolls Royces, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's. Get it??? Probably not!!! :sick:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Wagoner couldn't turn a big ship over 14 years! Dud after dud due to his wisdom:
Aztek
G6
Cobalt
Solstice/Sky
HHR
G8
Camaro (soon)
Volt (probably never)
I thought he was the best CEO ever. He's the one that agreed to the VEBA that GM could never afford. He hired KLutz who first knocked hybrids, then later thought they were the best things since sliced bread.
If you want to see a fast turnaround by a big company, look at Hyundai. Now THERE'S a company that is really making a difference with great new products. Hyundai adds extended warranty - GM follows. Hyundai adds job loss protection - GM follows. GM always FOLLOWS. Even Ford is making big strides. GM is not leading in anything other than a downward spiral. Pretty sad for such a big company.
Demography
Main article: Demography of Norway
Demographics in NorwayAs of 2009, Norway's population numbered 4.8 million. Most Norwegians are ethnic Norwegians, a North Germanic people. The Sami people traditionally inhabit central and northern parts of Norway and Sweden, as well as in northern Finland and in Russia on the Kola Peninsula. Another national minority are the Kven people who are the descendants of Finnish speaking people that moved to northern Norway in the 18th up to the 20th century. Both the Sami and the Kven were subjected to a strong assimilation policy by the Norwegian government from the 19th century up to the 1970s.[33] Because of this "Norwegianisation process", many families of Sami or Kven ancestry now self-identify as ethnic Norwegian.[34] This, combined with a long history of co-habitation of the Sami and North Germanic peoples on the Scandinavian peninsula, makes claims about ethnic population statistics less straightforward than is often suggested[original research?] — particularly in central and northern Norway. Other groups recognized as national minorities of Norway are Jews, Forest Finns, Roma/Gypsies and Romani people/Travellers.
In recent years, immigration has accounted for more than half of Norway's population growth. According to Statistics Norway (SSB), a record 61,200 immigrants arrived in the country in 2007 — 35% higher than 2006. At the beginning of 2008, there were 459,600 persons in Norway with an immigrant background (i.e. immigrants, or born of immigrant parents), comprising 9.7% of the total population. 350,000 of these were from a non-Western background, which includes the formerly Communist countries according to the definition used by Statistics Norway. The largest immigrant groups by country of origin, in order of size, are Poles, Pakistanis, Swedes, Iraqis, Somalis, Vietnamese, Danes, and Germans.[35] Norwegians of Pakistani descent are the largest visible minority group in Norway, with most of its 59,000 members living around Oslo. The Iraqi immigrant population has shown a large increase in recent years. After the enlargement of the EU in 2004, there has also been an influx of immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe, particularly Poland. The largest increase in 2007 was of immigrants from Poland, Germany, Sweden, Lithuania and Russia.[36][37]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway
-Rocky
Uhhh - education is free through high school. Community colleges cost very little. If you are poor your healthcare is free at your local ER courtesy the taxes of the "elites".
LOL.... You are freaken hilarious!!!
So the average Norwegian union Skilled worker makes less than $9000 US per year. They pay $8 per gallon for gas. I hope they don't have a long drive to work. I guess that leaves Rocky out. He would not be able to afford a plane ticket.
I think Fintail, proved your $9,000 wage theory was about as accurate as the spew coming from Fixed News. You just don't stop do you??? :P
-Rocky
How about University expenses. My ex has $50K in student loans thus yeah that is very little. :surprise: Okay!!!
If you are poor your healthcare is free at your local ER courtesy the taxes of the "elites".
At the expense of your credit's beacon score.
-Rocky
You have it backwards. The top 10% of income earners pay 70% of income taxes. The bottom 50% of income earners pay 3% of income taxes in the US:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html
So let's reverse your statement. In the United States, the rich people right now are covering the costs for most of the poor people. It really sounds like the elitists are taking advantage of the common folk
Perhaps the common folk are too dependent and should pay more? I do agree that the wage and income gaps should be narrowed. But by that same definition, globalization is good. The poorer countries are getting richer and the richest countries are under pressure. Which way do you want it to be? If you want high paying jobs staying in the US you are an elitist vs. poorer countries. If you want common folk's standard of living to rise you want the globalization process which is occurring. Or do you only want the best for those in the U.S.? Isn't that a selfish from a world view?
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if Labor had not first existed. Labor is superior to capital, and deserves much the higher consideration."
I wished Marsha7 and gagrice would drop the Mises book and take in what "Honest Abe" said many years ago. Great Post cooterbfd!!!
-Rocky
UAW compensation is often not reasonable...but neither is the polar opposite.
They create jobs for people willing to work for a reasonable wage. Not some UAW inflated wage for the unskilled untrained masses.
Well unfortunately the Republicans are also all for those who break the law by sneaking into this country illegally to get jobs and citizenship. I guess that's helping working-class people. What ever happened to the rule of law? On this Rocky and I agree.
And likewise for that bottom 50%?
Society exists for the benefit of the top few, and they can pay the most to maintain it. Wars are fought and men die so the elite can prosper. Let em pay, and they can pay more. It's the only responsibility many will take in their lives.
Elitism is a human condition. Western civilization should not commit suicide so a few globalist cowards can profit and lie about it being for the benefit of less developed regions. This altriusm angle is a disgusting lie.
I said you needed to be poor. If you are poor you are covered (perhaps not well, but covered). If you are rich you can afford it. If you are middle-class then you are screwed unless you have insurance from your employer.
I agree that this has to change. It is ridiculous.
We get it. You smarmy one-worlders don't like to admit to any kind of collusion or united ideal to make a dumbed down standard for the masses of the planet, at the expense of the future of what was the western world. Point taken.
I used to work helping to develop credit scoring models for my employer. In analyzing the results I would often examine individual random applicants, and see why they scored as they did. The amount of medical debt among people who don't have much of a pot to piss in to begin with (judging by their other trades) is staggering. These aren't middle class people by my definition anyway, and they are handicapped pretty much forever from it.
I disagree. If there are such planned controls on most of the masses as you suggest, then certainly a tool used by most of the masses to get information must be controlled. I can't understand how you wouldn't be suspicious!
On another note, I notice from your profile you may be in Canada. What is your take on the health care quality. Do most citizens feel the system is good? Is the satisfaction generally pro, con, or mixed?
But, personally I believe Europe is going to be no better off in the future than the US, and possibly worse. Even with the EUSSR enhancing thought control and censorship, I see a powder keg developing. I love Europe, but I don't know if I want to be there in 40 years.
Agree we're getting off topic. I'll just let your statement above stand, and others can judge its rationality.
I am not in Canada, but from what I know most people there are at least tolerant of their system. It has quite a few flaws, but is not a complete disaster. It will probably develop into some kind of half private hybrid, as ours might have to go the other way.
The banks were giving loans away like they were with housing. No credit, no job, no problem!!!!
Did he put in 46 years on the job? I am sure many people would switch with me now. That is not rocket science. Where were they when we could not get help on the job? Too many wimps that do not want to work out splicing cable at 50 Below zero with the wind blowing 40 MPH. When people especially the oil companies have an outage of their telephones, it made NO difference how cold it was out side. You were expected to get the job done.
Dad went from the Navy to working at GM. He was from Michigan and good jobs were plentiful around here.
I would say getting US into a World War was on a global scale. He also made the deal with the Royal Saudi family to protect them with no time limit. In exchange World oil price would be in US Dollars. So you are right his Presidency was arguably one of Treason. I think the Depression was prolonged by FDR with his poor policies. We did not come out without WW2 and I think that was of his doing. We threatened Japan and they attacked. He knew ahead of time and did not warn the forces in Hawaii. He is just another of your misguided hero worship.
Where do you come up with this stuff. I'm a history buff and never heard such rhetoric about FDR. You liberatarian think tanks scholars sure come up with some conspiracy theories.
How much cheaper do you want things to go. You can buy a home in your beloved Detroit for a couple grand. You can afford that on Minimum wage.
How much would it cost for bullet proof glass. You can't buy any home around here in G-Rap that cheap otherwise I'd be moving.
Minimum wage in CA was the defacto for all entry level jobs. Unlike now when they pay $8 or more per hour at McDs. If you worked in a gas station, Store, wrecking yard it was a buck and a quarter. You were raised in a spoiled environment. Built on hot air and not solid ground. Now that the sand is washing out from under those jobs you want to cry foul. No one from the White House to Congress is listening. They have a more sizable voting bloc to woo. Think 10-30 million new citizens with the right to vote and go for your job.
I don't know if he will get it passed. Too many on the right and left are opposed to it. The majority of this country is opposed to it. Look at every poll.
-Rocky
Absolutely true!!!
If we counted all the unemployed here in Michigan that have ran out of benefits it is estimated to be around 18% and that isn't counting underemployed.
-Rocky
LOL...
-Rocky
-Rocky