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Comments
-Rocky
Rocky, you AGREED with most of my points! You are even brighter than I thought!
Well Bill Gates competed and won with the current playing field. Steve Jobs is competing in the current playing field. Warren Buffet competes on today's playing field. Even John Deere, a successful UAW company, competes on today's playing field. I stand by the statement that Wagoner sucked. Life doesn't give you level playing fields; you make it what it will be. Those other companies didn't whine and complain, they just made it happen. Unlike GM.
-Rocky
You must not be pro union. They don't believe in differentiating for skill levels. There might be brown-nosing going on. It should be seniority ONLY. :P
Yeah we do once in a blue moon. :P
Well Bill Gates competed and won with the current playing field. Steve Jobs is competing in the current playing field. Warren Buffet competes on today's playing field. Even John Deere, a successful UAW company, competes on today's playing field. I stand by the statement that Wagoner sucked. Life doesn't give you level playing fields; you make it what it will be. Those other companies didn't whine and complain, they just made it happen. Unlike GM.
I guess I spoke too soon. :P The playing field is unlevel. The companies and people you mentioned outsourced millions of jobs to gain an unfair advantage against some small firm trying to grow his/her company here in the U.S.
-Rocky
-Rocky
You posted GM is #1...have you noticed that means absolute NOTHING since they have lost 40 Billion in the last 5-8 years???...do you understand what it means to lose money and how meaningless being #1 really is???...think of a baseball team that lost every game in a season but had the #1 home run hitter with 100 home runs...so what???...they have to win games and GM has really won nothing except Chapter 11...
Just read in current Forbes that Buick sales have dropped 81% in the last few years...someone tell me why keep Buick as a separate division...aside from one model, 2010 LaCrosse, and we don't know how good it is yet (except rocky, who states that every GM model is the best in the world as they file for bankruptcy), one model cannot keep a division going...the crossover SUV (Acadia???) is another rebadged car from Chevy, what else is there for Buick (Forbes also said that Lucerne sales were quite low)???
Saab, Saturn and Hummer either sold or simply shut down...I maintain my prediction, Chevy, caddy and a truck division, pick your name of either Chevy Truck or GMC...
In 90 days, GM will be the automotive equivalent of Pets.com, and they brouhgt it all on themselves...and anyone who thinks that the electric car will save them is on drugs...no one will buy them except Tom Hanks, Warren Beatty and Bill Gates...oh, and Al Gore...
Not really. It did not get close to EPA estimates for mileage around town. It was ok on the highway. I think it was mostly the crap ethanol gas in CA. I did not like the auto stop feature as it was dangerous on slippery surfaces. Just glad I found a happy new owner. Much better electronics than the Toyota. Probably made in China.
I think the GMT-900 is the best made truck in the world.
Again, that is nothing to brag about. I think all trucks have taken a dump over the last 10 years. They are just foo foo trucks for kids and wannabes. I want a solid built truck with strong bumpers. Not some plastic piece of crap truck.
That I blame on management and not the UAW. Just so you know.
That's what we have been trying to tell you. The other companies left long ago. The migration started in the 1950s. The UAW workers should be happy they lasted the longest. Now it is their turn to look for a new career as so many others have done before them. If I would have stayed with the AT&T back in 1970 instead of quitting and going to Alaska for RCA, I would have been given an early retirement in the late 1980s. Those guys are all having to do WalMart greeter jobs to supplement their meager Pensions from AT&T. One of the guys I worked with got pushed out with 17 years service and when he turned 65 got $207 per month pension. He was 2nd level management at AT&T in their Denver Toll Center. He gets 10 times that with 24 years in the Teamsters. He is the one that just retired at 75 years of age.
The UAW guys getting the golden parachutes should be counting their blessings. Most losing their jobs were not so lucky.
how is this small business owner going to compete with the giant names at such a disadvantage?
By giving good service to customers. Just like our little hardware store. It is more expensive. It is also 12 miles closer to home. We also do 90% of our grocery shopping at the local market that is not affiliated with any of the chains. They have good produce and that is the bulk of our diet.
50's??? Where did they go in the 50's??? People in the south were still driving horse and buggie and going to the rest room meant going out the backdoor outside in a wooden shack. :P I thought Fintail said it started in the 1970's??? :confuse:
The UAW workers should be happy they lasted the longest. Now it is their turn to look for a new career as so many others have done before them. If I would have stayed with the AT&T back in 1970 instead of quitting and going to Alaska for RCA, I would have been given an early retirement in the late 1980s. Those guys are all having to do WalMart greeter jobs to supplement their meager Pensions from AT&T. One of the guys I worked with got pushed out with 17 years service and when he turned 65 got $207 per month pension. He was 2nd level management at AT&T in their Denver Toll Center. He gets 10 times that with 24 years in the Teamsters. He is the one that just retired at 75 years of age.
So are we just going to roll over and die and allow this to happen??? Glad you made the right moves. It could of been the total opposite and you could of gotten screwed over worse if that was possible. Sounds like your AT&T friends got a screw job and I'm happy things worked out. Hope the union workers at AT&T have a better agreement now.
The UAW guys getting the golden parachutes should be counting their blessings. Most losing their jobs were not so lucky.
They are but most aren't happy about it. They wanted there kids and family to have the same opportunities as them. We are suppose to progress and not regress. As Duncan Hunter said it's a national security issue.
By giving good service to customers. Just like our little hardware store. It is more expensive. It is also 12 miles closer to home. We also do 90% of our grocery shopping at the local market that is not affiliated with any of the chains. They have good produce and that is the bulk of our diet.
You might be able to do that with a hardware store but you will not survive in technology sectors like Tractors, Cars, Computers, etc by only having good customer service. If that was the case then Saturn who always ranked at the top wouldn't be getting the axe!
-Rocky
P.S. I thought Steak was the bulk of your diet???
And did everyone catch this news today, UAW workers for Chrysler actually decided to take less pay and benefits? rock, could this really be true?
It now sounds like creditors are forgiving some $5B large of Chrysler debt. Daimler is bought off and gone, and Fiat is still talking to them to strike a deal before their April 30 deadline.
tick..tock...tick...tock. Things are looking up for Chrysler, at least more up than they looked like a week ago.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Is this really shocking too you? :confuse:
-Rocky
-Rocky
Case in point! Take a good look at that new Chevy with the duramax and allison tranny. Sounds good huh? Then look at the so called leather interior. WTH? Only the front seats are leather? not the back seats The front seats headrests are plastic? And, they want $60,000 bucks for this? I don't think so! I hope they quit cutting corners on quality and start building fine vehicles again.
And the foreign looking dash on the Tundra is a beacon of quality, eh? I'll take the fit and finish of the Silverado/Sierra combo over the Tundra any day.
I'll stay with Toyota! Why? you may ask! They hired many of the 1800 unemployed auto workers that were laid off by GM.
Got some proof to back that claim? :confuse:
Here is a message to those that are in charge of running those Companys. You have been kicked to the curb by me until you can show me that you are what you say you are. And quit cutting corners. Americans deserve better than that from an American made automobile manufacturer. AND, KICK THAT UAW TO THE CURB TOO! They are hurting the auto industry. can you not see that?
Go visit the Tundra forum and look at all the upset customers. Plenty of recalls and quality issues especially on the 2007's
Here is a challenge for you to chew on. Lets see what you got! We Americans want a 3/4 ton truck that gets 50 miles to the gallon hwy. 40 city. and, keep the price to around $23,000 Think your up to it? Or, is that too much to ask from a Company that Brags about being the best in the auto industry?
You might see something like that 10 or 20 years from now. We don't have the technology to get there yet. If you think it can be done for $23K you are nuts. That is as much as a Prius and you want a 3/4 ton truck??? You better go see China or India.
You have some of the most gifted and. talented minds working there. LET THEM SHOW THEIR STUFF! This challenge is for FORD, GM, DODGE.
True but technology is expensive. It's called R&D and it ain't cheap to develop.
-Rocky
P.S. The back seats in the Duramax aren't plastic
I've driven em' all and I beg to differ. The dash is a real "eye sore" in my eyes. How is that sub 14 mpg hwy treating you??? :surprise:
have many Family members that live in Detroit .and, have either retired or are working for one of the big three back there. I hope the big three can recover! and, show the world that they are # 1.
I'm sure they are disappointed that you purchased a Toyota despite at that time a Silverado was the best truck on the market and arguably still is. Why would you pass up on a discount you would get from one of your relatives to buy a Tundra? :confuse: You could buy a extended service contract and still have thousands in your pocket. They might recover but they are going to need help.
Not just say it. but, prove it with a superior vehicle. Read my post called the challenge in the UAW section. We have so much talent and technology in this Nation. If we can put a man on the moon. we can build a 3/4 truck that gets 50 mpg on the hwy and 40 mpg in the city.or better. and gas powered! Not the battery crap either.
I can appreciate your enthusiasm "2007_tundra" but the technology at this present momment doesn't exist and if you think it's possible in a 3/4 ton body without batteries and powered by gas I'm sorry you are going to be severely disappointed. A diesel gets better mileage than gas and with all the programmers and technology to tweak them you are only able to get about 26 mpg hwy. The 4.5L V8 Duramax that was suppose to go into the 1/2 tons might of pushed the 30 mpg mark. Getting to 40 let alone 50 mpg is technology limited. We've hit the ceiling without using another power source such as "cold fusion"
-Rocky
While unrelated, here is the latest recall from Toyota...hardly the same as an engine oil leak that could cause a fire.
TORRANCE, California — Toyota on Monday said it is recalling 121,000 2008 Highlander and Highlander Hybrid vehicles in the U.S. because an optional stainless-steel exhaust tip may fall off.
"Due to improper heat treatment, the original clamp used to secure the stainless-steel exhaust tip to the exhaust pipe may develop microscopic cracks," said Toyota Motor Sales USA in a statement. "If this occurs, the crack may expand, causing the clamp to break, and in the worst case, the exhaust tip may fall off."
The Japanese automaker said there have been 10 reports of incidences of this condition in the U.S. It estimated that there are about 39,100 accessory kits that may be affected. "Because this accessory is installed at the Toyota vehicle processing centers and dealers, and is available over the counter, all of approximately 121,000 vehicle owners will be notified," Toyota said.
The recall is expected to begin in early May. Owners can contact Toyota at (800) 331-4331.
Regards,
OW
-Rocky
Spent a good deal of time over the past couple of years helping other folks with vehicle purchases. . .
The trick is to instill confidence in the customer that the product is the best there is, without appearing arrogant. Unfortunately some just can't seem to manage that.
In this area,Toyota tends to appear more arrogant than most others. For years they had one of the most reliable cars on earth. Not necessarily true any longer. On the other hand, Kia and Hyundai sales personal appear to be the most knowledgeable of their product line and the least "Pushy".
Of the domestics, GM, especially trucks, act as though they have absolutely the greatest products on earth, and that is OK. Problem is, that I can do it their way or not at all. Chrysler product dealers seem more willing to work with the customer as well as being extremely knowledgeable.
Biggest problem I have with the Domestics is the manufacturers unwillingness to help the customer with known problems after warranty.
Anything can go wrong with any vehicle. Regardless of the make. Many of the domestic and import parts come from the same vendors. They key is, how was the vehicle assembled in the first place and how does it and the manufacturer satisfy the customer down the road.
Kip
The teachers in a school are professionals and the UAW workers are assemblers. The teachers with more years of experience, and who survived to hold those years rather than leaving teaching for a higher paid alternative profession or job, are much more effective at teaching and the ancillary things part of the job. I want my child in the classes with the most experienced teachers in our high school. BTW my wife is a retired teacher so I've been around those so-called "old dog teachers" via my wife's friends for years; I'll take the ones with experience.
I realize the attempts to tie in AFT and NEA to the unions with UAW, but there are two different types of work in those two unions. E.g., I've watched a friend near death in the ICU for almost a week being treated by those highly paid nurses. Of course the hospital could just pick up workers at the local Lowes or temp agency and let them handle the life-saving job of a critically ill patient's care. Do the top nurses have a union? I don't care, but I've seen the same high intelligent decision making occur by the best nurses in the hospital. I'll take longevity over the younger ones I saw in the post surgical floors.
Does that mean a higher seniority UAW worker provided value added to the job they were doing? Probably. But the younger workers could have been trained to do the same work in most of the cases, so seniority is not a factor. So we probably agree about UAW seniority not being meaninful, but criticizing teachers in a profession is different than someone pushing buttons and assembling parts.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Are you some sort of a consultant for people buying vehicles?
The trick is to instill confidence in the customer that the product is the best there is, without appearing arrogant. Unfortunately some just can't seem to manage that.
It really depends a lot on the customer too. I have been on the sales consultant side with my previous jobs and I can speak first hand that some Toyota Kool-Aid drinkers were so disrespectful to our products I was chewing my lip and eventually broomed them. I asked them what in the hell are you doing here if a Toyota is what you want??? :confuse: So it works both ways. However I have played the consumer a few times "shopping" dealerships for my sales schools and we had this honda salesman so fired up it was hilarious when we told him we were looking at Chrysler's vans also. He started trashing his competition a big "No No" when selling cars.
In this area,Toyota tends to appear more arrogant than most others. For years they had one of the most reliable cars on earth. Not necessarily true any longer. On the other hand, Kia and Hyundai sales personal appear to be the most knowledgeable of their product line and the least "Pushy".
They made reliable cars because when you went in for a oil change they were secretly being fixed to give that perception.
Of the domestics, GM, especially trucks, act as though they have absolutely the greatest products on earth, and that is OK. Problem is, that I can do it their way or not at all. Chrysler product dealers seem more willing to work with the customer as well as being extremely knowledgeable.
That really depends on the dealership. I don't trust one our local Chrysler stores. They will say anything to sell a car and it cost my mothers coworker a service visit because they told him a LTZ Impala in 2007 with a 3.9 V6 could run on E85 which wasn't the case.
Biggest problem I have with the Domestics is the manufacturers unwillingness to help the customer with known problems after warranty.
That depends on the dealership. Our import dealerships don't do it around here. That is why the warranty has limits. If highly recommend to customers Paint Protection and Extended Service Contracts. If you negotiate right you can get a good deal on them.
Anything can go wrong with any vehicle. Regardless of the make. Many of the domestic and import parts come from the same vendors. They key is, how was the vehicle assembled in the first place and how does it and the manufacturer satisfy the customer down the road.
True. I think it more so boils down to how it was designed and engineered. A vehicle made today is only as good as the material and parts that is put in them. if you buy cheap parts and cut corners your vehicle probably won't be a good one. I have a lot of confidence in what the Big 3 make today. The new 2010 Buick Lacrosse if I had the money for a daily driver would be at the top of my list. :shades: I'm very likely going to get rid of the 04' Impala after my final divorce hearing on the 11th of next month and go after a low mileage car from the mid 90's that I can buy cheap until I get in a better financial situation. I would love to find a steal on a low mileage Aurora 4.0 but am open to other options. I just need to buy something for under $5K that will be reliable. I know it will be a hard find but I am up to the challenge.
-Rocky
We were buying electronics and steel from Japan and Germany in the 1950s. Part of the rebuilding after WW2.
So are we just going to roll over and die and allow this to happen?
What choice is there?
I thought Steak was the bulk of your diet?
I use to eat lots of steak when the company paid for it. Sound familiar?
Gagrice - So you are a meat eater. I thought most of you in California were veggie eaters.
-Rocky
True. I think it more so boils down to how it was designed and engineered. A vehicle made today is only as good as the material and parts that is put in them. if you buy cheap parts and cut corners your vehicle probably won't be a good one. I have a lot of confidence in what the Big 3 make today
The same parts maker does the parts for BMW, MERCEDES, GM, and Chrysler cooling systems for HVAC and engine. So they make top quality parts for BMW and terrible parts for GM? NOT.
Local Behr nee Chrysler plant lays off 40 more workers.
Behr lays off 40 more workers
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That is not true. Both Ford and Toyota build diesel PU trucks sold all over the world that can get 45 MPG and haul 3/4 of a ton in the bed.
The 4.5L V8 Duramax that was suppose to go into the 1/2 tons might of pushed the 30 mpg mark
More vaporware from GM. Too big of an engine for a 1/2 ton. A 3.0L inline 6 diesel would have all the power you would need in a 1/2 ton PU truck and could get at least in the mid 30 MPG range.
You can thank the UAW for blocking trucks that are capable of high mileage. They used their political clout to pass the Chicken Tax in the 1960s. Remember the VW diesel PU would get 50 MPG. Many are still on the road today that were built in the 1970s.
I am sure it is good. My best fish days were living on my farm in MN. I love Walleye, Crappie and Northern Pike, fresh out of the lakes. Alaskan fish is so seasonal and the good fishing spots you have to fly to. Kind of takes the fun out of catching your own.
So to answer your question about what will the UAW workers do. Let them eat PERCH.
:shades:
But, I, as a poster here, have every right to insult the intelligence of the UAW people, because I must get under rocky's skin any way I can...it is my mission in life, waiting to express itself for the last 20 years, just waiting for the internet and edmunds.com, knowing that a "rocky" or someone just like him, would exist solely to haunt me... :P
That is the profit margin in most businesses.
I as a sales consultant might think you are an idiot for wanting the other car but I'm not going to tell you that. What I'd try to do was get them sold on a pre-owned unit if that other make/model was a must have by the end of the sale to not lose the customer. This strategy worked for me a few times.
But, I, as a poster here, have every right to insult the intelligence of the UAW people, because I must get under rocky's skin any way I can...it is my mission in life, waiting to express itself for the last 20 years, just waiting for the internet and edmunds.com, knowing that a "rocky" or someone just like him, would exist solely to haunt me... ...
You are doing a damn fine job of it too!!!! :P :P :P :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
Profit is why we are in business, the Govt deals in charity funded by our taxes..In running a UAW infested plant, my last year the net profit was 20%, six months later the 3 plant operation was sold to some big shooters who were ex-titans of big business..Long story shortened, within 5 yrs all operations vanished--gone..I went into sales after the sale was completed, for I could foresee the problems after they paid for something they didn't know a thing about..You sell things at the peak and let the buyer beware!!!!
Sales were always more fun and much more profitable, with tons of free time for Florida, golf, and playing..
We did all this w/o computers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, impossible today...Times change..
Being a GM it should last you an other 5 years being UAW built.
April 29, 2009
DETROIT - Three people briefed on the deal say Italian automaker Fiat Group SpA will sign paperwork by Thursday to become a partner with Chrysler LLC.
So I guess Chrysler stays alive to fight an other day.
Obama Said to Plan for Chrysler Bankruptcy, Alliance (Bloomberg)
"Chrysler has made progress in its out-of-court restructuring, including reaching labor deals with the United Auto Workers union and Canadian Auto Workers on new contracts. Nardelli said today in a memo to employees that the company is waiting to hear whether its 46 lenders will agree to take cash to wipe out $6.9 billion in secured debt.
The possibility exists that a bankruptcy filing won’t be needed, one person said."
It sounds like Nardelli will be gone but the UAW will live for another day.
Heavy negotiations continue. I bet.
Chrysler To Be Taken Over By Fiat; Bankruptcy Not Ruled Out (AutoObserver)
UAW voting was today. "Meantime, Chrysler hourly employees represented by the United Auto Workers union were voting Wednesday on a contract that would give them 55 percent of Chrysler's stock in exchange for a pay freeze, work rule changes and other modifications to the current contract negotiated in 2007. Workers were expected to approve the new deal."
Chrysler Deadline Looms; Progress Made, Nardelli Says (AutoObserver)
-Rocky
The United Automobile Workers union said Wednesday that its members ratified a cost-cutting deal with Chrysler by a 4-to-1 margin."
As Detroit Is Remade, the U.A.W. Stands to Gain (NY Times)
Rocky you make that sound like a negative for HonToy. I wish GM would have done that with their KNOWN bad hinges from 1999 - 2006. Or the defective bolt in the passengers seat of my Suburban that broke and the seat collapsed. The dealer that replaced the bolt said they used too low of a hardness and many had broken. It is lucky the passenger did not get hurt when the seat went back abruptly.
Again the UAW puts together the parts sent to them. I think to be competitive the D3 cut corners on content to make up for the higher labor & legacy costs. Don't forget that GM is at least down $20B on the pension plan they will have to make up the end of this year. If they sell 2 million vehicles that is $10,000 added to the cost of each vehicle. Plus $3500 for legacy health care for the retirees tagged onto each vehicle. That is $13,500 per vehicle sold off the top. Promises made to the UAW that they will not be able to meet.