United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

rockylee

Darn .....I was hoping that the UAW union reps would help call the shots and would further there clout and influence in the political mainstream to help pass pro-worker legistlation and take the fight to the neocon globalist.

-Rocky

PMO

Ok you admit you are off thats good? Now how about the tax bit have you figured out what tax an Auto worker pays ,say over 30 years?( this should count for something.then the taxes he pays out of his pension? This is now to consider if this was taken away and now you paying taxes have to pay him everything on welfare.

gagrice

Don't you think the taxes paid by the UAW workers is irrelevant? Most of US pay taxes and never get squat from the Feds. It is a giant black hole we dump it into. Gone, kaput, spent by ignorant politicians on all kinds of things we don't want or need.

Now to GM and the UAW workers. What is so hard to accept about the fact that NO ONE wants the Vehicles sold by Chrysler and GM? We may sell half as many cars this year as in 2007. GM has built its paper empire on selling millions more than it will sell. That means they are broke. They lost $80 BILLION over the last 4 years. At least $20 Billion was for the retirees health care. GM cannot keep losing money like that. That means they need to dump at least half of their UAW work force and tell the retirees they need to go on Medicare or some other plan. Life is tough and GM no longer can carry them. Not all GM's fault. Some lies on the back of the UAW leaders that agreed to such a Ponzi scheme. I would put all the leaders of the UAW and GM in Prison with Madoff. The ones that came up with that pyramid scheme. I can tell you if it was my Union, I would organize a class action suit with all the retirees.

PMO

Your Regal was built in Canada soo this was a CAW car not UAW and if your VIN is a 2 it will be built in Canada under Caw,(don't all get up to check but my guess it is a good car.

PMO

I have been there when the Buick Regal was a pilot car,The first thousand cars were built for Engineering try outs (crash Barriers etc) This is to make sure your General public gets what the Government Standard dictates, this is MVSS no car is built without meeting this standard for public use. This brings us back to what the Public wants well this is a fact more people have died in cars from Japan than those built in America, (would you not think a Car built for an average person from Japan ,would do the same for an American Person) not! you watch them fly down the road . Zoom! Zoom! Bang Dead . love your thinking but my money would be in an American Car built for American's

PMO

Sorry you feel that way about my comment but in the USA all the blue prints for GM are all metric standard and nobody in america is taught Metric only thousands

PMO

Not to say you are wrong but I have worked in Dorville Fairfax OK city and Canada for GM and I know the Reliability person in Dorville Fairfax and OK city was one person salary to over see that everything met P.A.D. specs. in Canada we had 18 spec. people in the body shop.alone , so please tell me why I would think Quality sucked in the USA.

rockylee

Because anything tied to a UAW plant must suck. You haven't heard that everyone at GM is high on drugs, drunk on the job, sabatoge the cars, and what else oh yeah and are lazy, dirty, no good dogs. Did I miss anything marsha7 and gagrice??? :sick:

-Rocky

PMO

I too went to school and ended up working in Detroit as a rep for Canada building Buick and Chevrolet, My guess my knowing trumps your Believe for you see most Americans Believe all wars were won by America , only the Cival war my friend was won by America by killing off their brothers, but you took that in school I bet. Now most cars in America are built to a Standard set by the Government called M.V.S.S. and GP3 approval is required by the government to continue with the build. The UAW and CAW follow the Standard set down by P.A.D. Production Assembly Documents. The PAD are Speced out by a Reliability Person or persons ( In the USA the plants would allow one Salary person the responsability ) this in my opinion was wrong and quality Sucked . all cars other than those built by the Ford GM and Chrysler were designed off shore to hold a person of average size in Japan or Korea and the death rate now published for small cars is out there Good Luck in your Choices and to think I Know without a degree.

PMO

No I would say the jobs were tedious and being on the line for eight or ten hours a day was something that could drive you to drink or drugs, the fact that over 20,000,000 in the USA are on drugs some of the things being put on this site make me wonder what some are thinking. This could be ignorance but I would hope most would be of sound mind . Then some have no cartoons on TV and come here I have been told. I have worked in Grand Rapids GM plant too for J Batchelder I do know Drugs were used throughout GM and when you think what is being done even here to the CAW and UAW workers who have put hundreds of thousands of their kids through university so their kids would'nt end up on a line like dad or mum. Then listen to the remarks given by so many that have no idea that their Dr or Dentist Lawyers are a product of a UAW or CAW worker.

gagrice

Did I miss anything marsha7 and gagrice?

No I think you and your partner PMO have done a fine job representing the UAW workers.

gagrice

CAW and UAW workers who have put hundreds of thousands of their kids through university so their kids would'nt end up on a line like dad or mum.

Now you are making sense. That would be the smart UAW workers that made sure their kids did not end up in a dead end job in the UAW. What about the 100s of 1000s of UAW workers that are still clueless as to the reality of their lifestyle lasting into the future?

PMO

Yes I know ! the split came after GM went with profit shareing in the contract as did Ford and Chrysler for all hourly workers. Canada added one and one and figured this is like for a thousand bucks getting a guarantee to live to 90 GM was building Fairfax the W car build was on line and Canadian workers were setting up the China plant .(if GM was spending like we knew where was the profit?) guess now we were right ! but McLaughlin was building cars with Buick motors before GM became GM and Chevrolet was built in the same plant in 1916 and GM bought into it in 1918. if not for GM Canada GM would not be. This is a fact been hid

tlong

You haven't heard that everyone at GM is high on drugs, drunk on the job, sabatoge the cars, and what else oh yeah and are lazy, dirty, no good dogs.

Not everyone. Only the UAW.

The previous non-UAW management instead was cash-grabbing, luxury golfing fat cats who flew on business jets to WA to beg for our tax dollars as their lifestyle was being threatened. They knew how to predict success no mater what the failure. And they were very concerned about apple pie, hot dogs, being born from jets, and building excitement.
:P :P

PMO

how do you know when I started in 1961 getting 2.34 per hour that I would be there for 32 years and two marrages because overtime was big stuff and you didn't turn it down because you signed a contract to work shift work and x amount of hours overtime , you would loose the job. I had been in the NAVY before starting with GM and it was a job I married in 1963.

gagrice

how do you know when I started in 1961 getting 2.34 per hour that I would be there for 32 years

Well that is the year I started as an unskilled worker for Pacific Telephone. We were not fat cats in the CWA Union like you were in the UAW. I was only making $1.56 per hour with NO OT. I got married in 1964 and by 1965 was still only making $2.50 with the equivalent of an AA degree in electronics. I finally retired in 2006 after putting 46 years in five different phone companies. If I had stayed at Pacific Telephone I would probably be a Walmart Greeter trying to supplement my lousy pension. And my working remote as I did cost me 3 marriages.

You need to count your blessings. A young man starting as we did does not have the same chance at retirement that we enjoy. Unless they make it a lot higher up the ladder or start their own business I would say a 30 year old today will not be able to retire before age 73. It has to do with average life spans.

PMO

Mine was in Canadian dollars but America has to turn the Government around and advocate full time imployment or every man jack and jill will have no life to live ,oh sure the government still brings in taxes but the man gets robbed of health care and a pension. the government won't pay!

marsha7

rocky: "Because anything tied to a UAW plant must suck. You haven't heard that everyone at GM is high on drugs, drunk on the job, sabatoge the cars, and what else oh yeah and are lazy, dirty, no good dogs. Did I miss anything marsha7 and gagrice???"...

I am trying to sit here and maintain my composure, ROTFLMAO...rocky, I am VERY PROUD of you, as you have FINALLY understood what we have been saying for months (or is it years???)

gagrice:, well, does he pass the course???...considering he's repeated it over a hundred times, I think he deserves an "A"...and no, rocky, we do NOT believe in social promotion here, you have to earn your grade...

Finally, some common sense out of the boy... :P :):):):)

To another poster (I can't keep up with 50 posts since my last one)...my Regal was traded in when I got my 2000 Intrepid...I kept the Intrepid until Nov 2004 (end of lease) when I gave it back and had to get another vehicle...since I had already traded my 2000 Sable (anyone notice the chain of UAW-made Big 3 cars...where is the union cheering squad for old Bob???)...for the 2004 Crown Vic (still have it, 4 more payments and it is MINE), we gave back the Intrepid for a 2004 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi 4 door (the real Marsha is a farm girl at heart and wanted a pickup truck...in case you don't know, rocky, what Momma wants, Momma gets)...so, 4 payments to own the Crown Vic, 20 payments to own the truck...

Imidaz: Yeah, I knew that lawyer joke, about the billable hours making him 83...please be careful I have a weak ego, lawyer jokes offend my sensibilities...yeah, right...

Oh, the reason this marriage works is that the real Marsha has the same opinions about the UAW as I do...rocky, care to come over for dinner???

rocky: is it just me, or do you seem to have a lot of contact with ex-girlfriends???...one works in a dealership, one is applying for the same job you are, Beth sells more cars than most dealers...have you ever tried asscoaiting with anyone besides ex-girlfriends???..

I will say it again because I mean it...rocky's ideas about capitalism and the auto industry need to deal with reality, and I think he is nuts... :P ...but since I am somewhat of an upfront kind of guy who tactfully voices his opinion at any chance, I have deep respect for those who voice theirs and accept the consequences...I really believe that so much in American business and industry, in a macro sense, would be much better if bosses were more openminded to subordinate's ideas, and more subordinates felt the freedom to speak their minds...yes, sometimes really stupid stuff comes from the mouths of subordinates and the untrained...but an openminded boss should always be on the lookout because sometimes subordinates, in their innocence, will spew out some of the best ideas for improvement, simply because their untrained minds are not stuck in the "we must do it this way" mentality and their fresh look from an "outsider" is often the "out of the box" thinking that will improve the operation...that is how I ran my business in Detroit, and my employees always knew my door was open to new ideas, or a different way of doing things...I would question them further, either to draw out the flaws in their thinking process, or to develop their thinking to institute improvements...

I never understood why bosses were afraid to listen to subordinate's opinions, because some great ideas come from sources we never dreamed of...I have never feared my employee's minds, and I have no idea why some bosses are so unwilling to listen...

OK, enough of that...now back to my favorite sport, rocky-bashing...

Good luck on that security job interview...

chetj

i read in the WSJ that [non-permissible content removed] ceos want to start offshoring more of their mfg too...there are going to be a lot of pissed off american and japanese workers soon

chetj

i can only imagine the billions of dollars and college educations GM has contributed to over years

chetj

i think lawyers are a lot more unpopular than union workers in usa but i am glad you buy from detroit

gagrice

my employees always knew my door was open to new ideas, or a different way of doing things

Of all the companies I worked for RCA Global had the best system for incorporating employee suggestions. They would award 10% of the first years savings for suggestions that saved the company money. I got over $16,000 in awards in the early 1970s when I worked for them. Then they sold out to PPL and the company headed down hill. I quit to be a farmer and then came back after Carter destroyed all the little farmers in the Midwest. It was not as good of a company so I quit and took the job I worked at for my last 25 years. I also took all the best technicians with me. Both jobs were covered by a Teamster agreement. Three of the crew worked together for 37 years. Sadly I can only say I had two good bosses over 46 years of service. The rest were incompetent or worthless. I can tolerate an incompetent boss if he stays out of my way and lets me do the job. I have no problem telling an incompetent boss to go back to his office if he is getting in the way.

The best part of our Union was a place to keep my $7 per hour that went into the Pension trust. I would not have trusted any of the corporations to keep it. And especially not AT&T. The ignorance of the UAW leadership in letting GM oversee the Pension is beyond belief. With all the pension failures as a result of poor management they should have held out to build their own Pension plan. What happens if you move and go to work for one of the other auto makers? Do you get two separate pensions?

marsha7

"i think lawyers are a lot more unpopular than union workers in usa but i am glad you buy from detroit"...everybody hates lawyers...until suddenly they feel that their precious little rights have been trampled...then, they not only want a lawyer, but they want the lawyer with the reputation for pushing the envelope, finding every little technicality, doing everything to make opposing counsel work his buns off...nothing wrong with that, mind you, but I am always amused when people say that all lawyers are crooks and unethical, but when THEY need a lawyer, they want the most crooked and unethical they can find, because now THEY want to screw the other guy...

They are often surprised when some us of will turn away cases simply because I don't exist just to cause grief to the opposing side, and many times their case is completely unwinnable, but they want "their day in court"...and some of their "causes of action" are so trivial, you wonder if they really have some kind of a life..."He cut me off on the interstate, and even tho there was no accident, I thought I was going to die...can I sue for emotional distress???"...it is amazing how thin some people's skin really is, or they criticize everyone else for going to court for the slightest breach, and then they one-up them by doing something even more childish...it is amusing to tell someone that their case is worthless, when they thought they had the million $$$ case...

Yes, I have the RIGHT to rail against the UAW and Big 3 because I have bought 5 of their cars since 1998, plus all the junk from 1972-1985, when I went over to Honda...I speak from experience, and, believe me, their junk from the 70s and 80s would have to be improved 100% just to be classified as boat anchors they were that bad...that was when I learned about the UAW, and it has been downhill ever since...they really are quite worthless...

dave8697

out of 284,000 with jobs making and selling Chryslers.

And 10% excess wage killed them.
They should make $54,000 instead of 60,000 avg in Kokomo, IN?

I'm sure that includes the average amount of OT.

Yeah, cut the wage of 18,000 UAW by 10% and leave the other 264,000 workers wages the same and there's the formula for success!!!!

That would up the current ROI from 4.5% to 5%?

Some people on here actually think that is the solution.

The only solution I see is market share. As long as the foreign market share is approaching 50%, Chrysler losing money will be the tip of the iceberg. The town of Greencastle losing 246 jobs is another American community destroyed by Honda.

PMO

My guess here you are lacking in knowlage GM had a pension fund when I started in 1961 in 1980 GM found the 19 billion in the fund to be top heavy and recieved permission from the Government to tap it for building new plants GM OK city was a big loss to GM but the Government wanted employment there as was the plant in Atlanta and then came the other car plant (Saturn) this was a farce thought up by government to get GM on side in employing people in areas with low employment . The UAW was not the Scape Goat here GM was shafted by Government. Why did Saturn start with no UAW ? This too was a deal set up to get the workers that were weeded out of other GM plants with good work records employment. Then getting back to the pension fund it was just raided by billions to pay out UAW workers in the plants shutting down ( my guess is the Government oversite is still into Baseball. What a wonderful country run by three blind mice. Walt Disney had more fun with disney world ,it to was Mickey Mouse.

lemko

Good God, where do you get this "no one wants GM or Chrysler cars?" Heck, I want them, but I can't keep buying new ones every year. There's a young girl at work who keeps talking about buying a Challenger. She already has a Hemi Charger. Another young guy actually has a 2007 Corvette. I think the young people are sick of "Toyota this" and "Honda that." It's funny. There's this dorky middle-aged dude who talks about his Camry and Corolla all the time. Think of a fat Dwight Shrute. The young girl with the Charger sticks her finger in her mouth and makes a retching noise! I most wholeheartedly agree! A world of Camcords would be extremely dull!

lemko

My Dad had a great job in a factory, but he always told me never to end up there like he did. I, myself worked there in the summer when I was away from college. I made great money and as a young guy wondered why the heck I was bothering with college when I could make real money working in the factory? It wasn't until years later I realized the wisdom of what my Dad was telling me over 20 years ago. Still, I don't disdain the guys who still work there.

PMO

It is like toilet bowl cleaning ,somone has to do and do it well but why me? The old UAW workers built cars on presses that put out Tanks planes and ships during the wars going back to 1919 and America was glad that we could do it to save the World. Then came the Japanies with the new way of building with new hydrolic presses not the mechanical bangers we had and went deaf with the robotics not the jungle lines of wires and spotwelders we had and the tolerances that thy were able to work with were unbelievable ,not like we were working with. GM woke up and in the late 80's purchased new equipment that held tolarances that were mesured in three decimal points . America had no idea as to what the old school of UAW worker had to do to adjust to the latest equipment. The names called out about the UAW workers who had to get their education on equipment totaly blind and this in Metric (guess America had before this and now never taught Metric . The prints around the world are all Metric and America fell behind the rest of the world because it wouldn't listen to any one that knew. Wake up America the rest of the world is pulling away.

dieselone

Good God, where do you get this "no one wants GM or Chrysler cars?" Heck, I want them, but I can't keep buying new ones every year.

Well obviously not enough people are willing to buy them or the D3 wouldn't be in the position they are in.

Most of the D3 car's I don't like and wouldn't buy, but there are a few I would. Chrysler has nothing I'd consider outside of a Ram. Ford and GM have a few cars I'd consider.

lemko

GM and Chrysler cars on my A-List:

GM:

Cadillac DTS
Buick Lucerne
Cadillac STS
Cadillac CTS
Buick LaCrosse
Pontiac G8
Chevrolet Impala
Chevrolet Camaro
Chevrolet Corvette
Chevrolet Silverado

Chrysler:

Chrysler 300
Dodge Charger
Dodge Challenger
Dodge Ram

Ford:

Mercury Grand Marquis LS
Ford Mustang

PMO

Nice list but how could a person in a coal State afford anything but the dream? I drive a 2009 enclave and love it.

gagrice

The UAW was not the Scape Goat here GM was shafted by Government.

Well either your Democrat President Carter or your Democrat Congress should be held accountable for letting GM steal from the pension fund. They could have floated loans for expansion. The UAW is not guilt free as they could have negotiated to control the Pension fund of THEIR workers.

Paying golden parachutes to get rid of old worn out workers should not come from the Pension fund. If it did then the UAW leaders need to be held responsible for signing onto such a plan. Notice the Leaders of your UAW have their own pension plan safe and sound. They could care less about the workers. They are worse than the worst corporate leaders. Wolves in sheeps cloths.

emittlesta

Nonsense!

tlong

The town of Greencastle losing 246 jobs is another American community destroyed by Honda.

You really don't believe in accountability, do you? Honda isn't destroying anything, they are competing and building better vehicles. If the UAW and the management of the D3 had been competent they would have been able to compete successfully. Blaming the customer is a real smart way of moving forward. :confuse:

American auto manufacturing is doing quite well, it's just that the successful US manufacturing is coming from foreign nameplates.

tlong

The UAW was not the Scape Goat here GM was shafted by Government.

It's always somebody else's fault, isn't it?

The UAW has never made a mistake and the current situation was not caused by the UAW. The fact that the successful manufacturers in the US are almost all non-UAW is just a coincidence.

PMO

It is nice to see a plant in the south building and employing workers,who cares if thy arn't worth the money others get . This isn't to say the workers arn't smart enough to earn a proper living and then who could you blame for them getting minimal wage on a job in the south that workers get in the north. then the education leval isn't the same is it? and lets face it homes will not be lost there . Then you can get rid of the antenna and put up a dish.

marsha7

You seem to have me confused with someone, or you are incapable of reading my posts (yeah, sometimes they ARE long ones)...

All my cars were new at purchase (except the Sable was one year old), and my wife is not upset and she never left...you really have the wrong person, or incapable of paying attention...

And I did not fly off, I simply responded...you are incapable of making me angry, I just tried to set the record straight...

Quote: "The town of Greencastle losing 246 jobs is another American community destroyed by Honda."...this makes no sense...if jobs move elsewhere because that is where the owrk is, there is no right for any town to exist is a status quo forever simply because it has done so for years...the only thing constant is change, we all know that...

It is the same argument given when WalMart comes to town, they scream that Mom & Pop stores close up...that is because Mom & Pop offer the same goods at 3 times the price, and Mom & Pop, whether you realize it, have been raping the townsfolk for years...if MOm & Pop offer better goods than the Chinese goods in WalMart, Mom & Pop will thrive and prosper...but to buy the identical goods at 3X the price is highway robbery if someone else can sell it cheaper, even if the highway robber is a little old lady with gray hair...

Local hardware store sold U-shaped fluorescent bulbs for $16.50 each...same bulb at Home Depot 30 miles away was $5.50 each...buying 10 bulbs from Mom & Pop was $165.00, whereas HD was $55.00, saving me $110.00, well worth my time to drive it...PLUS, that $110.00 allowed me to take wife out to nice dinner (supporting the local restaurant, which I could NOT do if I bought from local hardware store...remember, economics is dynamic, not static...buying from Mom & Pop deprived the OTHER local merchant, the restaurant owner, of my business there), and fill my tank with gas...

All Mom & Pop did was take more of my money and put it in THEIR pocket, whereas Home Depot allowed me to support the local restaurant, buy fuel, and still have money in my pocket...what is wrong with that???...and THAT is why any argument for "preserving" Mom & Pop stores against the Big Box stores is simple and unadulterated hogwash...Mom & Pop are obsolete and so is the UAW for making automobiles...they are one and the same...economics has changed and they refuse to change along with it...too bad...

PMO

I agree with you on some things,like Honda moving (guess someone wanted more money like UAW) This should make you upset when in the south any place that needs the money the government will relocate Toyota and Honda but if after GM had been pushed into building plants where ,could you imagine shipping fenders and hoods to OK city GM from Detroit to put on a car to ship it back to Detroit thats the Government for you but now Honda and Toyota wanted plants in the USA the Government thought of the South not knowing what the plants in the north were getting in wages but Shelby knew and pocketed money to get the plants built in his state with the workers getting out of the cotton fields and having jobs was a start now Shelby owns all the workers in his state. Talk about your slave trade.Then the Government wants wages in a place to keep you Americans in line . Use to be bare foot and pregnant. You are all getting shafted and the government will keep your earnings down so minimum wages don't get as high as the Canadians get $10.00 per hour in Canadian dollars what is it state by state there still $4.50 I think guess you can blame the union for that too.

PMO

Welcome aboard but what part is Nonsence! please explane yourself.

gagrice

I think guess you can blame the union for that too.

Why not? They did go on strike last year against GM when they were losing close to $40 Billion. A big share of the GM loss was providing the leeches on GM retirement with Viagra. Face it the days of having a gold plated health plan are over. The UAW retirees and oldtimers have KILLED the GOOSE that was laying the GOLDEN EGGS. Purely greed on the part of GM upper management and the old worthless UAW workers. They wanted to keep their gravy train and screw the new guys coming on the job. The Old timers and Retirees in the UAW should be ashamed of their complicity in destroying the domestic auto industry. Has nothing to do with the government. It was the lazy good for nothing unskilled laborers making a $100,000 per year when they were not worth $20,000.

Yes I blame a big part of the demise of GM on the UAW. So do about 75% of the American patriotic citizens that agree with me. And I am a 46 year Union worker. I never pushed a company into Bankruptcy. I did accept less pay when times were tough. You remember when Carter was President and almost bankrupted the whole country?

The people in the CAW are not the issue. The people building cars in Alabama and other fair labor states are not the issue. It is pure and simple the greed of the old timers in the UAW. They deserve what they get in the mess they have caused.

I think it was me that has the 4 wives and counting. I also owned 5 GM trucks. The only one that was poorly built was the 2005 GMC from a UAW shop in Indiana. The others were built in Canada and Mexico. All 4 were great vehicles. So if I were to buy another GM I would look on the door to make sure it was not from a shoddy UAW shop in the USA.

iluvmysephia1

one can buy a late-model Mitsubishi and get great build quality and a 10 year and 100,000 mile Warranty. I am very impressed with this car, yet I look at the "expert" car rating magazines and Mitsu is far down the list. Oh, well. Reality is what I look at. To be fair, the only Ford I ever bought new, a 1994 Ford Escort station wagon, ran like a champ and only needed one item fixed. That was a cracked exhaust manifold. Fixed at no cost to me under the manufacturer's Warranty.

Yeah, PMO, marsha and others, I don't buy this "buy American or eat &*^% and die" philosophy at all. If I find a Mitsubishi Lancer I like, and I like it much more than a Chevy Cobalt, I'm gonna buy it. And if I find light bulbs and some moulding trim at Home Depot that costs me $15.00 less than at Mom and Pop's Home Town Peddler's Store, I'm gonna get the best deal out there.

As long as it's legal and not a Ponzi scheme of some sort, I go for the best price. We get burned often enough by high prices for ghastly, or nat.gas, or electricity costs. Why feel some dorky patriotism to buy American cars?

gagrice is right, it's the dumb GM management and the greedy UAW oldtimers that have together helped to bring GM down. Not a select group of people who "have failed to buy domestic automobiles."

kipk

>"This isn't to say the workers arn't smart enough to earn a proper living and then who could you blame for them getting minimal wage on a job in the south that workers get in the north."

Do what? That is one confusing sentence.

Kip

PMO

I thank you for your comments on Canada and as you know I worked for GM of Canada for 32 years as a Rep in Detroit and did try to avoid this but didn't see the Greed thing coming . It is nice to understand your misunderstanding of how the Economy in the USA was created when you try to bring people in the poor states (please don't misunderstand the intent of this) The South ,again the Government over the years has pushed GM for Plants in the South and GM lost money trying to create work at their expence. The Toyota and Honda companies did come to America and Shelby can afford to get pissy at the UAW because if the Pay went as it was in the north we wouldn't be in this bind now. Shelby had Toyota and Honda locate in his state giving the wages higher than the average and giving both companies the edge over American built Cars and this now will drag America into an equal pay scale but lower the living standard in America to be as The Japanies dropped the Bomb on America and Shelby let them in. (The Canadian workers didn't drop their wages as much but we have lost 45,000 workers over all and with this loss will find it hard to recover too.) Then don't blame the UAW workers for the Contract swings put the blame on the Government for its oversite on letting Toyota and Honda to locate in the south with low wages creating this Auto pay problem. ( guess the oversite is into Baseball)

gagrice

Then don't blame the UAW workers for the Contract swings put the blame on the Government for its oversite on letting Toyota and Honda to locate in the south with low wages creating this Auto pay problem.

I place the blame on UAW leaders, GM Management and to a lesser extent the workers. A company building in the South made a lot more sense than where wages were OVERLY inflated. There are people here that still think an unskilled worker is worth $28 per hour. While the factory next door is paying $15 per hour. That is the problem. The UAW and its diminishing ranks are OVERPAID for the market they are in. One could make the same argument for Union Laborers getting $25 to $30 per hour. Those jobs are now paying $12- $15 per hour in the construction industry. I know masons that are happy to get work today that nets them $15 per hour.

You should be thankful you were one of the lucky unskilled workers during your 32 year career on an assembly line. Those jobs are going to be gone forever. Whining, crying and lamenting the good old days will not bring those overpaid unskilled jobs back. This World has at least a billion more unskilled workers than it did when those lucrative contracts were signed. If you had not noticed, every developed country in the World is being overrun by immigrants both legal and illegal. Canada has let millions of immigrants in to fill positions in the growing oil industry. The smart younger CAW workers would be wise to head to the provinces that are currently having a labor shortage. It may be their only chance at a high paying job that does not require a college degree or a skilled trade.

marsha7

To quote PMO "please don't misunderstand the intent of this"...I am respectfully trying to follow your posts that have almost no punctuation, run-on sentences and strained grammar...is English a second language for you, as I am trying my darnedest to follow you and I cannot...

lokki

Then don't blame the UAW workers for the Contract swings put the blame on the Government for its oversite on letting Toyota and Honda to locate in the south with low wages creating this Auto pay problem.

Hey - Honda is in Ohio... not very far south. And at least Americans got the jobs.

It's GM who imports the Aveo, and European Opels to sell as Saturns, and imports
cars from Mexico.

The transplants gave jobs to Americans. It was the big 3 who exported the jobs.

How is it worse to give Americans jobs than to give Mexicans and Koreans jobs?

You're gonna have to explain this one for me please.

iluvmysephia1

hey, edumacate me on a particular issue if y'all will. What d'ya know about labor laws? marsha, do ya know Nancy Grace? Isn't she Atlanta-based, I know, now on TV investigating various child abusers and killers, but formerly a defense attorney. But maybe not enough of your law forte to bump shoulders with her in Hot-lanta at any time.

Let's pop out a for-instance. What legally could GM have done in 1998 when the UAW struck them, I mean as far as standing against the tide of the strike? And not backing down, caving in and folding. And paying the turkeys the over-inflated amounts they are now getting, and then some?

Could they insist on just giving the UAW their best offer, or bust? Or, could they just slam the heavy hammer of intelligence down and break the UAW at that point? Decide that the strong suck of the UAW has busted their ability to effectively sell GM rigs at a profit and that enough is enough? Think about it. A publicly-owned Company has to turn a profit. You'd think shareholders would be choking on their raspberry jelly donuts at these long, overly drawn out mindless strikes by large Unions.

Could they just rehire people off the streets, give people like rockford fosgate a job, put a lollipop in his mouth and convince him it's the best thing since Claussen halved dill pickles, and be done with it. Just like that.

Because, there are some build quality issues, yes. And it's true in my case, GM offered nothing that I wanted to buy in the past 40 years. And even then it might've been a '69 Dodge Challenger, and not a Camaro or Trans Am.

But, it seems to me that the greatest sticking point in this whole thing, as we watch GM get flushed down the toilet by their own employees...yes, it has been the draining dominance of the UAW, plus some asleep-at-the-switch GM management, that has failed to put the gavel down at the proper time.

Just look at the pathetic Job's Bank and tell me if that doesn't make ya hungry for a Winchell's apple fritter warmed up for 40 seconds in the microwave? :shades:

I mean, come on, parting with hard-earned cash makes people think a while. Why would I plunk down good greenbacks for GM rigs?

Really, marsha, an Atlanta lawyer, what rights do huge Company owners have in these labor disputes? Don't tell me the good 'ole boy network was more important than turning profit for shareholders? Aren't we experiencing this whole Wall St. profit and bank loans fiasco ad naseum the past few months, and the overall feel is that it's pathetic that man has let man dominate man to his own injury, even the majority of man, for far too long? Then again, it's hard to turn aside Bible prophecy, isn't it?

The pigs with full tummies can eat for just a little while longer, my car-nutty friends, and then they will be gone. Like Karl Malone and his pathetic free throw mantra and John Stockton and his bony elbows of fate and all the grief they caused the NBA, they will be gone. And that is better than good. That is Starbuck's and Mitsubishi and Seattle Sonic's and Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp best NBA team of the 90's good, friends.

PMO

I agree with you 100% you can't get any thing in America worth the money and the reason Americans build crap. Oh yes we put man on the moon ( I think ) That was because we used the German rocket science and their Smarts and brought Canadians in from their Airow space program when America refused the Avrow CF105 putting them out of work. Then our Electronics were sent to Japan because we couldn't find technical people in America. The Car issue is the biggest farce GM in the beginning was a holding Company and didn't have a Car . Canada had bought Buick Motors from Dorant to build cars called McLaughlins in 1907 for 1908 .Dorant with a 14 year contract in hand from Canadian Builder started GM in 1908 with the purchase of Buick Motor company . He Got his butt kicked out of GM still holding on to a place on the Board , he Started with Lew Chevrolet to build Chevrolet in 1911 it didn't go far until he had McLaughlin build Chevrolet in Canada in 1915 , He was able to use his shares along with the Chevrolet built by Mclaughlin in Canada to regain his place in GM. and in 1918 purchased less than half of the McLaughlin Company for GM to Become Known as GM Canada after that all the Mclaughlin Built cars were know as Buicks built by GM. This is a little known fact .if you think about it America got this wrong too. GM realy started in Canada with McLaughlin in Oshawa Ontario Canada. Then Bell telephone . Canadian inventor couldn't sell his idea in Canada, after being in Canada he was from Scottland and went to the USA and this became known as an American invention. The world trade desided many years ago to use a standard called the Metric systmn, good for them America could not figure how this would be good for them so in the building of the Auto the manufactures did everything in metric the screws bolts and the Blue prints. America not knowing how this worked when building a car in America(sucked) because their thinking to change Metric to Thousands to build Dies was easier than learning Metric . (wrong) Now comes the Kicker when Toyota and Honda built their plants in the South the Engineering People were from Japan because the educated Americans were not up to building in the South something of this Industry ( Shelby knew he OK'd the Japanies to build the plants) Now you have people in the plants in Honda and Toyota that build cars of the Value America Wants putting Cheep labor in the South with Japanies overseers ( just like Slaves on the line no Chains but No Union either) you get what you pay for even if it comes out of sweat shops in India or China and now in America.

PMO

I agree with your remarks and never was a wizard at typing either I have a problem getting anything across to Americans at the best of times . Please forgive me ! but what you see is what you get and for 70 it can't be that bad.

iluvmysephia1

I'll tell ya what, the UAW must've let GM, Ford and Chrysler alone long enough to concentrate on building great cars with great body designs in the 1960's. I don't know what kind of Kool-Aid the Big Three was feeding their workers, then, but it worked.

BTW-there's been a lot of talk about the U.S. not really going to the moon. Do you think that mission really went down like we all saw on TV? Or was it staged? Many are coming to think that it was staged. I honestly don't really know. I need to listen to Art Bell/George Noory and get an update. Richard Hoagland would be the guest Art would bring on the show to edumacate us all on that mission. I can't remember what R.Hoagland's viewpoint was on that mystery, but he is a former NASA worker and probably believes it was real and not a hoax.