United Automobile Workers of America (UAW)

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Comments

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The odds of this being a quick bankruptcy proceeding is low, with so many parties involved, does anyone believe this will be quick?

    When you look at Delphi and the C11 that was filed in 2005, I would say 10 years minimum, we will be bailing them out. Unless we change the whole political scenery over the next several elections. GM will take even longer. Unless they just liquidate and get it over we will be in Auto Limbo for decades.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Well to many people claim to "know" stuff because there favorite news rag said so!

    ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    rocky: just how much IS a janitor paid, and how much do they COST the automaker, with health insurance, work comp, unemployment, social security matching, and other benefits...I am going to bet that my figure of $35/hour will be off by half, and they probably cost GM about $70/hour...what are the correct figures, rocky???

    I don't know what they are paid as they have been contracted out for quite a while now. They are not union members and to settle one of there previous contacts they agreed custodians could be outsourced. The real cost of wages, benefits, retirement is $55 an hour but that figure is going to drop as time goes on as more of these veterans reach retirement age. Toyota is paying $48 with wages and benefits. There costs are cheaper because they don't have the sheer number of retirees of GM.

    I want to know so I can rail against the UAW with correct figures for the lowest of the unskilled laborers, the floorsweeper...

    Sorry that UAW position has been eliminated and outsourced. I thought we made that clear a few weeks ago??? :confuse:

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    He didn't respond because he knows you are right. Good post imidazol97. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    According to the UAW supporters, "ALL UAW Employees" are entitled to live the good life..

    Damn straight!!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • lokkilokki Member Posts: 1,200
    after your investigation ,get back and let us know how much the Janitor gets ( being you don't know ,why put this reterick (SIC) up?

    Ok, PMO The website below shows that the a General Maintenance Worker at GM in Detroit will make between $62 K and $68K annually - That's $29.81 per hour.
    http://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/General-Maintenance-Worker-Salaries-SRCH_KO0,2- 6.htm

    Happy now? (Probably Not)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It will be interesting to see if UAW leaders are as good at caring for the goose as they have been at strangling it.

    LOL....You guys are hilarious with the words "strangling" being used. I'm getting this image of a person with both hands around a poor gooses necks kinda like the pseudo-capitalist are doing to small business and the working man in this country. ;)

    Harley is a well oiled machine. They not only make motorcycles but make military equipment also. :)

    The UAW now needs to fatten Barry's wallet and get some NAFTA reform, Tariffs to adress the unlevel playing field of unfair trade and currency manipulation. Throw a $15K tax on the hood of a imported Lexus LS and the playing field will be even. Then Yota will either have to pass that cost on to their consumers if they must own a Lexus LS or build them here to avoid it. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    lemko, I think that figure is about right for the contractors. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    That is a good thing too!!!! ;) We need to subsidize our industry like every other country. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Not true. The bondholders all had insurance policies thus they knew if they forced a bankruptcy they were getting there money back. ;) They were talking about the reasons why the bondholders were playing hardball and not open for negotiations.

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    PMO...the engineers design the basic method of the building of the car, but it is the people on the line who determine if things are properly aligned, tightened, etc...so, windows can fall out of tracks and doors may not align by simple ignorance, negligence, or sabotage by the line worker...so, I blame mgmt for ugly cars (Roadmaster) but I blame UAW for rattles, shakes and things that simply do not work that well due to rotten assembly...

    If your dash rattles you need to blame JCI and not UAW assembly workers. If the body its self rattles you can blame the engineers and the robots. I had a window fall out of alignment on my wifes 98 Mustang and it wasn't the UAW workers fault but a bad part according to the guy who fixed it.

    lokki: "It would appear that the average assembly line worker doesn't make $30 an hour in take-home pay - it's only $28.33 or $58,926 annually - not including any benefits or overtime."...ONLY $28.33???...OK, I was off by $1.67...and like you said, that did not include benefits...so, when I refer to floorsweepers making over $25/hour, I am correct, but if I say $30 I am technically wrong, altho not by much...

    You are still wrong because no floor sweepers are making $25 an/hr and they are for the BILLIONTH TIME contractors that are NON-UNION marsha7. :confuse:

    Forgive me, but justifying sweeping a floor for $28.33/hour PLUS BENEFITS, I cannot fathom how any UAW supporter can, with a straight face, tell me how "skilled" they are...plus, if they were that skilled, millions of Americans would not have deserted the Big 3 for imports...

    Read above!!!! NO UAW FLOOR SWEEPERS. What does Toyota pay there floor sweepers??? Are they contracted out??? :confuse:

    So, what the UAW folks SAY really is a figment in their own minds, because the REAL reviewers, not edmunds or CR, but the people who buy the cars out there, have said with their feet and their money that UAW-made cars are of insufficient quality for them to purchase... THAT IS THE BOTTOM LINE...

    They still out sell your beloved imports!!! :P

    Argue wth me all you want...the market has decided, and the UAW must become history...they may get a small reprieve when they have partial ownership of the company, but when the product comes out no different than the last 20 years, then it will be the UAW who manages themselves into oblivion instead of just assembling themselves into oblivion...

    As an outsider, this will be fun to watch...


    Take a 2010 LaCrosse CXS for a test drive Marsha7. You will be very impressed. I must ask what "trim level" is your Regal??? Do you has a GS?

    -Rocky
  • bmgpebmgpe Member Posts: 62
    Well to many people claim to "know" stuff because there favorite news rag said so!



    -Rocky

    My post stated that everyone "knows" D3 dealerships are going out of business. That "knowledge" is shared by all news agencies in the US. That "knowledge" has been confirmed by GM itself. There is forum here on Edmunds called "Where did all the dealerships go?" But you want to "believe" this is propaganda promoted on a "favorite news rag"?

    It just occurred to me that you personally worked for several GM dealerships one week, and they folded up the next week. Maybe its not the economy or quality or the Japanese. Maybe its you...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,044
    If your dash rattles you need to blame JCI and not UAW assembly workers. If the body its self rattles you can blame the engineers and the robots. I had a window fall out of alignment on my wifes 98 Mustang and it wasn't the UAW workers fault but a bad part according to the guy who fixed it.

    If it makes you feel any better, Rocky, my uncle's '03 Corolla squeaks and rattles worse than my '67 Catalina convertible. :P I guess I should confess though, that my uncle's Corolla has about 170,000 miles on it and has been wrecked a few times.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Say what? I am confused. You are blaming me for them going under??? I am well aware of GM closing down 1700 dealerships. I worked at two of them that closed earlier this year and the last one I was fired from because I told my dealerships management they weren't meeting my customers "wants and needs" when it came to inventory and I had fellow sales consultants that agreed with me but were too chicken [non-permissible content removed] to say anything about it. That dealership will be closed and once they do I will post the story here on edmunds.com. Even Marsha7 respects me for standing my ground and he and I don't agree on much. ;)

    -Rocky
  • numb3rznumb3rz Member Posts: 15
    I bought an 04 Mazda6 new, (built in Flat Rock Michigan). The car never had anything go wrong with it, nothing. It was stolen last month so I went looking for a new car. Got drawn back to the same Mazda dealer. I now own an 09 Mazda6. If the UAW builds the Mazda's, you guys are doing one fine job. If you're not, maybe you should try to find out how to build a car like that.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I recall they were going to slap a 100% tariff on all Japanese luxury cars, but they didn't have the cajones to do it. I wonder how many people would've paid over 6 figures for a 1994 Lexus LS400?
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What does Toyota pay their floor sweepers??? Are they contracted out???

    Toyota managers come around every morning in a Tundra and pick them up in front of Lowe's and the Home Depot.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    UAW Made Foreign Nameplates:

    Mazda6
    Mitsubishi Eclipse
    Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder
    Mitsubishi Galant

    Toyota Corolla*

    Mazda B-Series
    Toyota Tacoma*

    Mazda Tribute/Hybrid

    Mitsubishi Endeavor

    CAW SUVs/CUVs

    Suzuki XL7

    CAW Vans

    Volkswagen Routan

    http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2009/index.cfm

    -Rocky

    P.S.

    So your UAW Mazda6 is UAW MADE in Flat Rock, Michigan. Glad you like it as they are indeed a nice car. I had the chance to drive one last month and agree!!! ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,044
    Toyota managers come around every morning in a Tundra and pick them up in front of Lowe's and the Home Depot.

    Okay Lemko, you owe the government a new keyboard and monitor, because I read that while drinking chocolate milk and, well, let's just say I "redecorated" the office! :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    The republicans called Clinton a communist, socialist, a protectionist, etc, etc, thus he backed down from his 100% tariff and screwed over the UAW and working people in this country. :cry:

    -Rocky
  • motorcity6motorcity6 Member Posts: 427
    Please sit down before reading, Japan's unemployment rate jumped to 4.8% last month..WOW!!!!!! Really upsets our workers standing in line for their unemployment checks...

    You good folks buying the Asian trinkets called cars should make a beeline for your nearest anti-American dealership with an Oriental name like Toyota or Honda and put the USA deeper in a recession.. We need 10% unemployment nationwide so do your part, and buy one of those trinkets...

    Don't worry about the UAW, for the Democratic party has taken care of them for it will take twice as many employees to assemble the future cars coming out of Detroit..New work schedule, 1 hour on the job, and 1 hour off, so maybe we can get 4 hrs/daily of productive work..

    They will probably model our GOVERNMENT MOTORS after the Postal Dept and their $2-3 billion annual shortfall is an accepted shortfall...Just raise prices..cut services, and hire more people...

    The UAW is now enjoying a summer of leisure with Chrysler shut down and GM halting production for 9wks in the next few days...Your tax $$$$'s are keeping those
    highly skilled valuable one-of-kind individuals comfortable at their neighbor bar or filling in as protestors for illegal immigration or gay rights..

    Off to Detroit next week in the 09 Bullitt, 1300 miles of high-speed bliss, giving the car to my grandson, he deserves to live a life before the hybrid age takes hold..

    Drove a 2010 Mustang recently, and it is an improvement, more refinement, and better handling..Will get a 2010 GT w/track pkg.,
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Shoot, in this country they call a 4.8% rate "full employment" which is great unless you happen to be one of the 4.8% - which is optimistically low.
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    Not true. The bondholders all had insurance policies thus they knew if they forced a bankruptcy they were getting there money back. ;) They were talking about the reasons why the bondholders were playing hardball and not open for negotiations.

    Not all of them, as some where willing to take concessions on the debt. Either way, the loss is going to cost someone, either the bond holders and/or the insurers and of course us tax payers.

    Same thing could easily happen to gm.

    business week
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Yeah, it's only half-true that janitors make $30/hr. They only make $15/hr!

    Good one! :P
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Good article...Thanks!! :) I guess most of them had insurance. I do agree a BK for GM is very likely. Barry needs to address this NAFTA if he's going to get the troops from the UAW to rally behind him.

    Keith Olbermann tells it like it is on autoworker pay

    http://www.uaw.org/auto/12_01_08auto1.cfm

    -Rocky
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    the only thing Sucking is your Idea of American Quality

    Not true. I have an American made Acura TL and it is of high quality.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I'd also like to see "most favored nation" trading status taken away from China.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,507
    No source on that link. I don't defend the UAW, but I find it hard to believe that they pay a mechanical engineer only marginally more than a maintenance worker.

    Maybe if the maintenance worker is putting in 30 hours/week in OT or something.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It also doesn't include the two-tiered wage scales thus the info isn't entirely accurate or up to date. ;)

    -Rocky
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "I want to know so I can rail against the UAW with correct figures for the lowest of the unskilled laborers, the floorsweeper...

    Sorry that UAW position has been eliminated and outsourced. I thought we made that clear a few weeks ago???"...

    Forgive me, that was a slip on my part...I basically refer to the anonymous "floorsweeper" as the most unskilled of the unskilled, paid far in excess of what his skill level demands...BTW, there was a time when the janitor WAS a UAW member, IIRC, so my timing is off but I think my general meaning is on point...can I go back to lug nut tightener (abbreviated LNT) to replace the floorsweeper???

    My Regal was the other one, not the GS (LS???)...which was traded in when I bought my new 2000 Intrepid ES, further supporting the Big 3 and the UAW, as I am a Union Man from the word "go"...excuse me while I gag on that, or spew chocolate milk on my keyboard...

    Yes, regardless of our differences, I believe in standing up for the truth, and if rocky told his boss that what was wrong was the "family" part of family business, and the boss can't take that his son is incompetent, then rocky's best bet was to leave, whether voluntarily or involuntarily...esp since he could see why the dealer was not selling cars, due to no stock on the lot...


    The fact that the REAL problem was selling UAW-made cars and not imports, we will overlook...rocky STILL did the right thing by voicing his opinion...I can ALWAYS have NO RESPECT for rocky's UAW opinion, but on this I will always respect the person who speaks their mind with constructive criticism...even rocky...yes, even "rocky the misguided one"...
    ...:):):):):)... ;):blush: :P

    Hey, it's about 1:40 pm on Friday...shouldn't I be working???...wait a minute, I am just taking one of my 15 "thirty-minute lawyer's union breaks" in an 8 hour work period...let's see, 15 half hour breaks comes to 7.5 hours on break, with 30 minutes left to work...sounds like a UAW contract to me...and I don't even get paid $28/hour to sweep the floor or tighten lug nuts...this calls for only one solution.............STRIKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Throw a $15K tax on the hood of a imported Lexus LS and the playing field will be even.

    But the Lexus would still be a better car. If the D3 don't fix the desirability problem, no amount of cost savings will help. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    “Only a fool would try to deprive working men and women of the right to join a union of their choice.”

    -Rocky
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Member Posts: 2,882
    Dwight Eisenhower
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    If the union didn't try to strong arm and physically threaten the folks, then the card choice or election would be fair...don't forget the RIGHT of the employer to close up shop and move away to avoid the union...you only seem to think the workers have rights, but the employer has the right to do EVERYTHING to avoid the union, and that includes closing and leaving...then they can thumb their noses at the workers and simply say..."You have your union, now see if you can find the JOB to pay you"...all most (not all) unions have done is destroy the company and throw their members out of a job...it is no longer the 1940s, and the need for the union, quite real back then, is now history along with buggy whip makers and 8 track player makers...
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    If Eisenhower did say it, there is your other answer...the 1950s, right after WWII (40s) and the Depression-era 30s...life is rather different now, and Eisenhower is along with that thinking, is quite dead...fortunately...
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Keith Olbermann tells it like it is on autoworker pay

    Did the UAW kick in on his new contract of $7.5 million per year?
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Forgive me, that was a slip on my part...I basically refer to the anonymous "floorsweeper" as the most unskilled of the unskilled, paid far in excess of what his skill level demands...BTW, there was a time when the janitor WAS a UAW member, IIRC, so my timing is off but I think my general meaning is on point...can I go back to lug nut tightener (abbreviated LNT) to replace the floorsweeper???

    You are forgiven pal. However the lug nut tightener isn't a position either. There is no one putting lug nuts on cars going down the assembly line either. We made that clear a few weeks ago also. You will have to come up with something else. :P

    My Regal was the other one, not the GS (LS???)...which was traded in when I bought my new 2000 Intrepid ES, further supporting the Big 3 and the UAW, as I am a Union Man from the word "go"...excuse me while I gag on that, or spew chocolate milk on my keyboard...

    So you had the LS. Do you still own the 2000 Intrepid???? What other vehicles do you own or is that it???

    Yes, regardless of our differences, I believe in standing up for the truth, and if rocky told his boss that what was wrong was the "family" part of family business, and the boss can't take that his son is incompetent, then rocky's best bet was to leave, whether voluntarily or involuntarily...esp since he could see why the dealer was not selling cars, due to no stock on the lot...

    Thanks. It is pretty sad when Beth sells more new cars than a whole dealership. She delivered #15 yesterday to end the month. I guarantee you my former dealership didn't come close to that number in new. ;)

    The fact that the REAL problem was selling UAW-made cars and not imports, we will overlook...rocky STILL did the right thing by voicing his opinion...I can ALWAYS have NO RESPECT for rocky's UAW opinion, but on this I will always respect the person who speaks their mind with constructive criticism...even rocky...yes, even "rocky the misguided one"... ...

    Even though I think I'm guided and you are misguided I appreciate your support on that. I am going to apply for a armed security job at the nuclear power plant where I use to work about 7 years ago tomorrow. My ex g/f Tammy is going with me to take the test. So hopefully one of us will land it. :)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Correct!!!

    -Rocky
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    You good folks buying the Asian trinkets called cars should make a beeline for your nearest anti-American dealership with an Oriental name like Toyota or Honda and put the USA deeper in a recession.. We need 10% unemployment nationwide so do your part, and buy one of those trinkets...

    Of course. I should not have bought my American-made Acura TL, I should instead go get a Mexican Fusion. That Fusion employed a lot of US workers. ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >The UAW is now enjoying a summer of leisure with Chrysler shut down and GM halting production for 9wks in the next few days...Your tax $$$$'s are keeping those
    highly skilled valuable one-of-kind individuals comfortable at their neighbor bar or filling in as protestors for illegal immigration

    You left out being able to be paid or volunteer to assist ACORN in gathering more voters.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    But just maybe with EFCA the next location and same union can organize the plant where it reopens causing the business to either negotiate or go out of business. Workers need to fight these greedy employers and there needs to be a tariff on imports so it isn't cost effective to go overseas. That would solve everything. :mad:

    -Rocky
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,691
    >"thirty-minute lawyer's union breaks" in an 8 hour work period...let's see, 15 half hour breaks comes to 7.5 hours on break, with 30 minutes left to work...

    Speaking of union nonwork or padding...

    I read a joke about an attorney checking in at the Pearly Gates complaining, "But I'm only 50."
    St. Peter then explains, "Oh we thought you were 83 based on your billing hours."

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    It will give them room to make there cars more desirable and still make a good profit is the point of my arguement. ;)

    -Rocky
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Workers need to fight these greedy employers and there needs to be a tariff on imports so it isn't cost effective to go overseas. That would solve everything.

    You just do not understand that tariffs are a two way street. When we put 100% tariff on foreign oil, Alaska and Texas along with the other oil producing states will be sitting fat. Not the UAW and Domestic car makers that cannot build a 50 MPG car in the USA. Heck they cannot even build a 40 MPG car here.

    Of course the UAW workers building heavy trucks and equipment will be out of a job as the countries we tack tariffs onto will reciprocate. You and your UAW friends better learn to live with free trade and open borders. This administration likes it that way. He is just feeding the UAW crumbs to keep them voting Democrat.
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    You just do not understand that tariffs are a two way street. When we put 100% tariff on foreign oil, Alaska and Texas along with the other oil producing states will be sitting fat. Not the UAW and Domestic car makers that cannot build a 50 MPG car in the USA. Heck they cannot even build a 40 MPG car here.

    They will be able to soon enough. Cruze, Volt. How many 40 and 50 mpg cars is Honyota & Nissan building??? :surprise:

    -Rocky
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The UAW now has 26,800 members at Chrysler, one-fourth as many as in 1979. Its Chrysler equity could turn out to be worthless, leaving retirees with curtailed health insurance, if the company’s fortunes don’t turn around quickly, said Harley Shaiken, a labor analyst at the University of California at Berkeley.

    “What’s at stake is auto being the pre-eminent industry generating middle-class jobs in the country,” Shaiken said. “The union will have a tough fight in the future to make sure competitiveness results in high-wage jobs rather than coming at their expense.”

    UAW’s Chrysler Equity Is Small Comfort as Union’s Power Wanes (Bloomberg)
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Of course the UAW workers building heavy trucks and equipment will be out of a job as the countries we tack tariffs onto will reciprocate. You and your UAW friends better learn to live with free trade and open borders. This administration likes it that way. He is just feeding the UAW crumbs to keep them voting Democrat.

    They can build those heavy trucks and equipment here or they can go out of business. I don't care. Someone will replace them because that is the way the fair-market works. ;) We will see what he does. If it is enough crumbs then we will vote for him again. If the republicans offer the working people more then we will switch thus it's up to you guys. ;)

    -Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Member Posts: 14,017
    Will Gettelfinger or a desiganator sit on the board at Chrysler for the UAW???

    -Rocky
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My understanding is that it's the VEBA trust that's getting the 55% interest. So the UAW will have indirect influence. "Shares owned by the trust fund will be voted by independent trustees." (from that Bloomberg link above).
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