Roger Smith was that he tried to automate the plants with robots to reduce the need for militant labor, and for that he failed but I credit him for trying...his implementation of his plan was a disaster, and he was a finance man, not a car man, so all he saw was beans to count and not cars people might want to drive...wasn't he the one behind the Caddys that looked like Chevys???
His reign was a disaster, but his ideas were ahead of their time in terms of robotics, but the machinery was not developed to fulfill his vision...I would think that if he was alive today, he might be pleased with all the automation in the import plants, which is why Honda can change over to the next model year in under a day, and GM always needed 2 months...
Oh, one other thing against Roger Smith...in 1984, GM was coming off its worst year since like 1925...I believe they actually booked a loss...the UAW negotiations were coming up for a new contract, and the UAW called a strike...they were living on strike pay of $65 weekly for about 6-8 weeks...had Smith held out for 2-3 more months, he could have broken the UAW and they would have withered away FOREVER...he had the only chance to break the union in 40 years, and he blew it...if they had run out of strike money they would have crawled back begging for their jobs at half the pay, and Smith settled...for that I can never understand his actions, as he could have destroyed the union and failed to do so...
The world would have been a better place and we would have lost a topic here because no one would have remembered the UAW except those who studied ancient Roman history...:):):)
>The world would have been a better place and we would have lost a topic here because no one would have remembered the UAW
Have you read Lutz's book about Bean counters and CarGuys? I think you would enjoy the veracity of some of the tidbits in there. Stemple gave away the farm in the early 1990s to the unions.
I would love to see Walter Reuther sitting with a tin cup on a corner in Detroit. I would imagine he is frying in hell for his evil deeds.
I hope Roger Smith is there with him
At least they'd have something to talk about!
Stemple used to have a magnificent summer "cottage" (mansion) down here. I found out too late that early into his retirement he gave a talk at a local library on the car biz. His points sounded a lot like what Lutz said and from what I caught of it was that nice combination of fact and fiction that the Lutz book was.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
Stemple was an engineer and car guy. Just a wrong time and place victim. His successors certainly didn't do much!
Now Roger Smith - prime example of a bean counter in charge. He may have been early to robotics and automation trying to cut fixed costs, but look alikes and quality shortcuts don't enhance company value long term.
I don't remember if it was under Smith or not but I remember GM getting the hots for robots when it saw the Japanese doing them but when the UAW heard that it was the end of that for quite some time.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
>when the UAW heard that it was the end of that for quite some time.
Imagine the position the UAW workers who were left and the position GM would have been in if the UAW would have recognized that embracing robotics to maintain their auto production numbers as high as possible. Even though there would have been worker number losses, keeping the US builders stronger against the underpricing of the foreign companies with their $4000 advantage would have ended up keeping better jobs for the UAW members surviving. Instead they find themselves competing at the Walmart wages of their competitors.
I think some of the transplants like Camry and Accord actually pay pretty similar wage packages as D3 plants. The bigger issue these days is work rules, featherbedding and the like with the UAW, and of course the higher overheads that go with all of that as well as other ridiculous grievances.
As Bertel has noted, GM is outsourcing future EV development to its Chinese joint ventures, but this is the first time we’ve learned that the Volt could be made in the Middle Kingdom. In fact, just two weeks ago, GM said concerns voiced by Senator Stabenow (and echoed by Rep Slaughter in the video above) about Chinese technology demands, didn’t apply because it had no plans to build the Volt in China.
Only good reason for the Domestic automakers to send more jobs out of the USA. The UAW. When will these workers wake up and smell the roses. They are NOT worth the wages they are receiving. As long as we have an open border policy there are people that will do the work for less and be grateful to have the lower paying job.
"When will these workers wake up and smell the roses. They are NOT worth the wages they are receiving."
You don't actually mean that, do you???...I thought they were highly skilled workers, needing almost a half day to be trained in their job activities... :P :shades:
Heck, if it really took ANY skill at all, you think they could hire iliterate Mexicans at $1 and hour to do the same work, ONLY BETTER???
I think some of the transplants like Camry and Accord actually pay pretty similar wage packages as D3 plants.
That's pretty much the situation.
The bigger issue these days is work rules,
Interestingly enough, the Big 3 are allowd to use their skilled tradesmen (plumbers, carpenters, millwrights, et al) on the production line when their skills aren't needed. Of course they earn about 14% more than the production line workers.
Buried deep in the new UAW/GM contract is an agreement that skilled labor will be offered buyouts and can be replaced by contract workers. The goal being to bring down production costs while lowering plant maintenance costs.
"Although the UAW and GM seem satisfied with the result of the new labor contract, it is unlikely all its specifics can be carried over to currently ongoing negotiations with Ford Motor Co. and the Chrysler Group LLC. For Ford, which reputedly has labor costs slightly higher than GM, workers are said to be seeking higher signing bonuses and a better profit-sharing program, while it is believed Ford may be committed to adding as many as 10,000 new UAW jobs during the life of the contract, which runs through 2015.
The going may be tougher at Chrysler, where CEO Sergio Marchionne has publicly said the company cannot afford GM’s generosity – and to now, at least, has no profits to share. "
I'm thinking you'll see the Chrysler CEO offshoring more and more vehicles. If Ford is adding those jobs by replacing higher paid workers with lower paid new employees then that may be a good thing. Otherwise, adding incrementally more UAW burden instead of places like Mexico may be a mistake since Ford is already the disadvantaged cost structure of the D3.
Moved there in 1967, they were rioting, lived in Grosse Pointe, spent 13 yrs supplying assemblies to the B3 in sales capacities and the last 7 yrs running a small 100 emp. operation near Flint and it was UAW infested..Very profitable operation. privately owned with plants in Wisconsin and Illinois also..The Wisconsin plant was UAW and union was decertified in 1976..
I enjoying the comments from all over the UAW situations and Detroit has always given the "shop away" in order to keep the lines moving..They just kept "kicking the ball down the road" and the Asians ate their lunch..along with the Germans, and Koreans..Janitors were earning $100,000/yr..so pushing dirt paid big..
Left Detroit in 1980 for the Illinois plant after the companies were sold on a leveraged buyout. The new owners were"big shotters" and I left 2 yrs later. Joined Japanese mfgr for a couple yrs, moved back to Grosse Pointe and became self employed from 1985 thru 2002..representing 4 manufacturers, dealing in forgings, both hot and cold, and castings..A car, cell phone, and a fax machine provided a great life without having to really answer to anybody..Didn't call directly on the B3, supplied components to suppliers of assemblies..
In closing, the UAW was really not bad to deal with during the 7 yrs of P/L responsibility, small plts are really not important to them, in fact I rarely saw anybody from the local UAW hierarchy..We ran the operation, they didn't....
Own a bunch of vacant land in Michigan, bought during 2004-2005 cycle, not in Detroit, but is "under water" price wise, bought on speculation, paid for, and been living in Florida permanently since 2001..have not been to Michigan to see the mistakes..
The legal profession and the unions are the deep-pocketed sponsors of the Democrats..
Did you see where UPS dropped it's sponsorship of Jack Roush Racing, I believe the UPS bunch is unionized, and Fed-Ex is not..Roush is a Ford-Nascar oufit, also modifies Mustangs and trucks..I don't think Obama is a big "Nascar Fan"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, certainly not a Ford guy..
Did you see where UPS dropped it's sponsorship of Jack Roush Racing, I believe the UPS bunch is unionized, and Fed-Ex is not..Roush is a Ford-Nascar oufit, also modifies Mustangs and trucks..I don't think Obama is a big "Nascar Fan"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, certainly not a Ford guy..
I haven't heard of UPS dropping its sponsorship with Fenway Roush racing. There is talk if Carl Edwards leave FR that UPS may move it's sponsorship to the new owner of the car he drives. But as of right now, UPS sponsors the car of another FR driver David Ragan.
UPS is unionized, has been Teamsters forever. FedEx is non union. Neither of their union situations has anything to do with their sponsorship dollars. That's all about getting exposure.
The UAW, if aligned for cooperative success, would have embraced robotics as a tool for future success in the factory. Not only the top production numbers which would have been a result, the quality, technological leading and career-enhancement benefits would have ensured that GM Ford and Chrysler would have ruled the industry.
How short-sighted to just concentrate on wages and benefits. Such a small piece of the ultimate career. The ultimate career for any automotive staff would be to be the best manufacturer and totally support the leading effort to build the best products instead of whining and striking for every dollar.
Of course, the top management is totally responsible to create an environment that supports this goal. Unfortunately, even today, GM management and UAW management does not....the rest just follow.
I don't think Obama is a big "Nascar Fan"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I read somewhere that Obama owned a Chrysler 300 V8 before becoming president. Maybe he is a closet fan, but he can't carry the south so its not worth emphasizing?
circlew: "The UAW, if aligned for cooperative success, would have embraced robotics as a tool for future success in the factory."
That is what annoys me about you, you post as though the UAW rank & file might actually have SOME semblance of intelligence, and, we know they have the brains of the average Labrador retriever...no, wait, that insults my Lab...:):):)... :P ...(sarcasm emoticon)...
SOME semblance of intelligence, and, we know they have the brains of the average Labrador retriever...no, wait, that insults my Lab...:):):)... :P ...(sarcasm emoticon)...
LOL, no kidding, my lab knows not to bite the hands that feed her;)
Let's look at Greece and the whole country is unionized, however Greece doesn't produce anything, no MONEY, BROKE, and living in a dream world like most of Europe..Fat salaries for all public workers, great pensions, retire early, and the Greeks are looking for a bail-out from the world...Too bad they can't print money like the USA..
UPS is dropping their sponsor for the the Roush team in 2012..Probably will go with the one of the GM teams..makes sense...Another outfit getting orders from the WH...
Somebody update me on the unionization of the transplants, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Kia, and Hyundai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have lost track and being out of the business really not a top priority item..
The USA is beginning to look alot like Greece, Italy, Spain, Iceland when it comes to money woes, and we have some cities that are running out of pension funds..Elected morons negotiating labor contracts with public employees is an invitation for disaster..for everybody leaves the meeting "happy", not good, the taxpayer just got screwed...
Obama had a Chrysler Hemi and when he came under the public eye I think he switched to "hybrid Ford Explorer" if there is such an animal..Really don't want to talk about him..Depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will order my 2012 Mustang GT next week, special order Basic coupe Brembo pkg w/3.73 axle..Blk w/grey cloth interior, period...only options..ElCheapo..
Funny event on TV, Castle, last year the team was driving "black Chevy Tahoes/SUV", this year the big guns are piloting around in "Black Volts."
Can't wait until the Fla State Troopers are issued "Volts."
I guess GE will become the prime Volt customer..
Just had an oil changed in the Pontiac GT, 260 S/C V-6, Royal Purple, tires rebalanced, rotated, and it is smooth @62k miles..scary, the new engine mounts 30 days ago smoothed out the drivetrain. Oil change every 5k, synthetic, usually down a pint..The Camry hasn't been out of the garage in a month, and within 8 wks a Mustang will be it's garagemate..
Folks, don't fret over the UAW, there are bigger fish in the pond.. Just watch the bar across the street at lunch time..
Let's look at Greece and the whole country is unionized, however Greece doesn't produce anything, no MONEY, BROKE, and living in a dream world like most of Europe..Fat salaries for all public workers, great pensions, retire early
My wife talked to her adopted son in Greece yesterday. His wife works directly for one of the ministers of something. She got a 50% cut in pay. His job went away completely. His property taxes more than doubled. His mother and mother-in-law both had their pensions cut 40%. I can remember many arguments with him when he visited here. He thought that the European way was so much better than ours. I wanted to ask what he thinks of his socialist government right about now.
Elected morons negotiating labor contracts with public employees is an invitation for disaster..for everybody leaves the meeting "happy", not good, the taxpayer just got screwed.
Even socialist FDR could see the fallacy in having government employees unionized. He was totally against it. Not sure how it got a foothold. When the states and Feds are broke and cannot pay the pensions you will hear some screaming. Never hear them saying maybe we should look at keeping this sustainable. They threaten the lives of politicians that want to mess with their gravy train in places like Wisconsin.
I think you are right. The UAW is gasping their last few breaths of air. UAW is going broke without the huge amounts coming into the coffers.
The UAW is running down the strike fund as income plummets and it lives beyond its means.
"A bloated management, run-away costs, declining market share, imploding volume, a sell-off of assets and investments, headquartered in Detroit" - It's the United Auto Workers.
"The United Auto Workers surprised its fellow labor giants last year when it broke ranks and endorsed a free-trade deal with South Korea, but the union hasn’t backed up its announcement with its usual lobbying fervor, suggesting that the move is more of a thank you to the Obama administration for the auto bailout than deep support for the proposal."
"Ford and the United Auto Workers (UAW) union reached a tentative national contract in the wee hours of Tuesday morning. Ford executives said the contract, if approved by the rank and file in the coming weeks, would create or save 12,000 U.S. jobs and would include $16 billion in investment in new products and additional plant capacity. But at the same time, it would keep Ford, which has the highest hourly labor costs among the Detroit Three, to be more competitive"
Early voting results show that the UAW’s production workers at Ford are narrowly in favor of a tentative agreement while skilled-trades workers are voting to reject it.
So far UAW production workers have voted in favor of the agreement by 50.1%, while 54.8% of skilled-trades workers have voted against the contract.
The results include votes from about 7.3% of the UAW’s local units.
Ford’s 41,000 workers at plants in several states will continue voting through the week on the tentative contract that the UAW and Ford reached last Tuesday.
Bill Johnson, plant chairman for UAW Local 900 in Wayne, said workers there narrowly voted to reject the contract.
UAW Local 900 represents workers at Michigan Assembly, where Ford builds the Focus compact car.
Members rejected the contract with 51.1% voting no and 48.9% voting yes, Johnson said.
“The [GM] deal also will include creative ways to cut GM's hourly labor costs,” writes the AP. “GM pays around $56 per hour including wages and benefits, which is less than what Ford pays but far higher than other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co.” Ford pays $58 per hour.
No wonder some auto companies needed a bailout. $56 and $58 an hour? Most CEOs and small business owners make less than that.
The UAW striking Ford may be a big gift to Mexico because Ford won't be able to sit still longer term with seriously eroded costs versus the competition. Over time the UAW will lose jobs over this.
No wonder some auto companies needed a bailout. $56 and $58 an hour? Most CEOs and small business owners make less than that.
That's around $120K per year. I don't know many CEO's that earn anywhere near that low of a salary. Small business owners run a wide range. I'm sure some several employee ones don't make that, but I'm also sure many small business owners far exceed that number and I don't begrudge them because they are investing and risking capital.
"“The [GM] deal also will include creative ways to cut GM's hourly labor costs,” writes the AP. “GM pays around $56 per hour including wages and benefits, which is less than what Ford pays but far higher than other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co.” Ford pays $58 per hour."
I have used may examples of unskilled workers, like floorsweepers and lug nut tighteners making $35/hour plus benefits, and some folks howled at how ridiculous I was with my numbers...
I didn't see anything backing up "most" CEOs either. Looks like some creative word choice. I could start a company, say "Fintail's scrapyard, auto detailing, and live bait", name myself CEO, and drag the numbers way down :shades: Anyone can be a CEO if they like to file paperwork.
Let's look at average CEO:worker compensation and see what is really what.
Let's look at average CEO:worker compensation and see what is really what.
I posted a link. There are probably 100s of 1000s of CEOs in the USA. It said the average compensation was $68k to $444K depending on the state you are in. If you want to skew it to make it look bad you only take the top CEO's and show their obscene compensation.
The point of the article was a large portion of Ford UAW workers make as much as many CEOs and small business people. Not only that, they are likely going to reject the contract agreed upon by company and UAW leaders. So my advice to Ford. Send more jobs to Mexico. You will get good workers that are happy to have a high paying job in their area.
Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The United Auto Workers said in a Facebook post that it will seek a strike if members vote against a tentative agreement with Ford Motor Co. and that union leaders expect the automaker would seek replacement workers.
Lots of people out of work would love to take those high paid jobs. Ford is selling lots of cars and trucks. They don't need the UAW shutting them down. I would love to see Ford break the UAW. Then they could build factories here instead of all over the World and hire lots of hard working folks that don't think they are worth $120k a year or more.
Depends on how you define CEO. If you operate a part time seasonal fence mending operation, you aren't really a CEO. The title implies the corporate world and actual companies of more than marginal size, even if it does not literally have those requirements. Dramatic word choice.
Let's look at CEO:worker compensation and trends over the past 20 years in the top 500 or 1000 corporations in the country to get a real picture.
And don't get me wrong, I think the Ford idiot workers are being foolish too.
Driving through southern Michigan over the weekend, I heard several radio ads from auto related companies seeking skilled employees. My nephew down here who works for a brake manufacturing company goes to Detroit several times a year, and business is currently good (they do quite a bit of military work too, for heavy trucks and the like, and lots of that work is done in the Midwest in Michigan and Wisconsin. American General, etc.)
Ford could have to scramble a bit if they want to get scabs replacement workers to cross a picket line, especially if they want workers with welding, CNC or other specialized skills.
There will be some real training issues getting people skilled in equipment maintenance etc. Line workers are not going to take that long. I would guess many UAW people will cross the line. The vote is just about split down the middle. If the UAW goes on strike against Ford. And Ford finds replacement workers. Will Ford still owe any of the pension benefits from before? If I am a skilled person making top pay right now, and the rest go on strike, I am crossing the line. Armed if need be. Ford is the highest pay in the industry, and these UAW morons think they can squeeze more. Time to bust the UAW.
I am not talking about Fortune 500 CEOs. They are a small fraction of the 1000s of companies in the USA trying to stay afloat with this anti Capitalist Government. When they cannot make as much as some flunky on the line at Ford, running a corporation no matter how small, something is wrong. I don't personally know any small business people that are making any where near a million a year. So the Tax they are talking about will only hit a few and raise very little revenue. My wife's stepson that took over the reinforcing steel business when his dad retired has never made over $200k per year. He took over in 1991. He has lost money trying to keep his crew working the last 3 years. He talked to my wife today about folding. Not worth the hassle. 30 more people on unemployment. The UAW workers at Ford are blind to reality.
Anyone can be a CEO if they like to file paperwork
You're right, but usually an unincorporated company head is a President, while a corporation head is a CEO (and yes, there are some Chapter S small corporations but they tend to resemble unincorporated structures except for taxes and distributions). But here are a few more factors on the matter. First, the $58/hr for a company head survey is likely unloaded, whereas for the autoworker the number includes benefits which means the worker salary only is likely more in the $30 realm which I admit is a bit high unless the worker is in a difficult skill area. A corporation executive also gets things like bonuses, stock options and enhanced benefit packages that aren't reflected in the base pay. A private company owner has some tax advantages as well as often getting a company car and other company perks. The point I'm making is that surveys and comparisons have to be viewed carefully and in their full context. Otherwise they are no better than a political sound bite.
I am not talking about Fortune 500 CEOs. They are a small fraction of the 1000s of companies
I understand your point, but these small companies are more like propreitorships and generally pay everyone far less than mid sized and up companies. However, the large number of them skew the survey downward. Very small companies have a lot of turnover, a lot of variance in annual financial performance and many bankruptcies. They also lose a lot of their better talent to higher paying companies. Personally, I'm leery of lumping them in with midsized and large companies to get an "average". It is like doing a financial analysis on a local hardware store and one on Lowe's or Home Depot and trying to draw comparisons.
Those others really are only CEOs in title only, to boost their own ego or to make their "business" look more important. Simply running a tiny business does not really make you a chief executive officer. Painting houses in your spare time or selling antique furniture out of your garage on weekends doesn't entitle anyone to more than a factory worker, IMO.
Something more amusing would be to look at average public sector salaries compared to the others. 1:5 City of Seattle workers makes 6 figures, I wonder how this compares to the working world in general.
> public sector salaries compared to the others. 1:5 City of Seattle workers makes 6 figures
Only the republicans want to compare public salaries to the general public in this part of the country: most of the people without degrees and without HS diplomas often react with jealousy which is beneficial for the repubs at the voting box, they hope. Of course repubs then go on to benefit the WS gang and not care about the little people other than to use their jealousy at the voting booth.
But what is the distribution of incomes in Seattle? Not the average, let's see the quartiles, e.g.
This is another area you have to be careful of the comps and make sure its not a political sound bite. What is the composition of the Seattle public employees work force? Do they perform more basic tasks like garbage or meter readers, or is that contracted out? Or is it primarily white collar like lawyers, accountants, buyers, etc? If the latter, you then have to compare that to white collar salaries in the Seattle area. I doubt Boeing, Microsoft, or Burlington Northern are low wage white collar employers. Personally, I think there are places where gov workers are way overpaid when you consider pensions and the like, but I also think there are areas where they are probably underpaid.
Comments
His reign was a disaster, but his ideas were ahead of their time in terms of robotics, but the machinery was not developed to fulfill his vision...I would think that if he was alive today, he might be pleased with all the automation in the import plants, which is why Honda can change over to the next model year in under a day, and GM always needed 2 months...
Oh, one other thing against Roger Smith...in 1984, GM was coming off its worst year since like 1925...I believe they actually booked a loss...the UAW negotiations were coming up for a new contract, and the UAW called a strike...they were living on strike pay of $65 weekly for about 6-8 weeks...had Smith held out for 2-3 more months, he could have broken the UAW and they would have withered away FOREVER...he had the only chance to break the union in 40 years, and he blew it...if they had run out of strike money they would have crawled back begging for their jobs at half the pay, and Smith settled...for that I can never understand his actions, as he could have destroyed the union and failed to do so...
The world would have been a better place and we would have lost a topic here because no one would have remembered the UAW except those who studied ancient Roman history...:):):)
Have you read Lutz's book about Bean counters and CarGuys? I think you would enjoy the veracity of some of the tidbits in there. Stemple gave away the farm in the early 1990s to the unions.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I hope Roger Smith is there with him
At least they'd have something to talk about!
Stemple used to have a magnificent summer "cottage" (mansion) down here. I found out too late that early into his retirement he gave a talk at a local library on the car biz. His points sounded a lot like what Lutz said and from what I caught of it was that nice combination of fact and fiction that the Lutz book was.
Yep, sure does!!
Regards,
OW
Now Roger Smith - prime example of a bean counter in charge. He may have been early to robotics and automation trying to cut fixed costs, but look alikes and quality shortcuts don't enhance company value long term.
Imagine the position the UAW workers who were left and the position GM would have been in if the UAW would have recognized that embracing robotics to maintain their auto production numbers as high as possible. Even though there would have been worker number losses, keeping the US builders stronger against the underpricing of the foreign companies with their $4000 advantage would have ended up keeping better jobs for the UAW members surviving. Instead they find themselves competing at the Walmart wages of their competitors.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Only good reason for the Domestic automakers to send more jobs out of the USA. The UAW. When will these workers wake up and smell the roses. They are NOT worth the wages they are receiving. As long as we have an open border policy there are people that will do the work for less and be grateful to have the lower paying job.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/09/gm-considering-chinese-volt-assembly/#c- omment-1794199
You don't actually mean that, do you???...I thought they were highly skilled workers, needing almost a half day to be trained in their job activities... :P
Heck, if it really took ANY skill at all, you think they could hire iliterate Mexicans at $1 and hour to do the same work, ONLY BETTER???
That's pretty much the situation.
The bigger issue these days is work rules,
Interestingly enough, the Big 3 are allowd to use their skilled tradesmen (plumbers, carpenters, millwrights, et al) on the production line when their skills aren't needed. Of course they earn about 14% more than the production line workers.
Buried deep in the new UAW/GM contract is an agreement that skilled labor will be offered buyouts and can be replaced by contract workers. The goal being to bring down production costs while lowering plant maintenance costs.
The going may be tougher at Chrysler, where CEO Sergio Marchionne has publicly said the company cannot afford GM’s generosity – and to now, at least, has no profits to share. "
GM, UAW Agree On New Labor Contract (AutoObserver)
I enjoying the comments from all over the UAW situations and Detroit has always given the "shop away" in order to keep the lines moving..They just kept "kicking the ball down the road" and the Asians ate their lunch..along with the Germans, and Koreans..Janitors were earning $100,000/yr..so pushing dirt paid big..
Left Detroit in 1980 for the Illinois plant after the companies were sold on a leveraged buyout. The new owners were"big shotters" and I left 2 yrs later. Joined Japanese mfgr for a couple yrs, moved back to Grosse Pointe and became self employed from 1985 thru 2002..representing 4 manufacturers, dealing in forgings, both hot and cold, and castings..A car, cell phone, and a fax machine provided a great life without having to really answer to anybody..Didn't call directly on the B3, supplied components to suppliers of assemblies..
In closing, the UAW was really not bad to deal with during the 7 yrs of P/L responsibility, small plts are really not important to them, in fact I rarely saw anybody from the local UAW hierarchy..We ran the operation, they didn't....
Own a bunch of vacant land in Michigan, bought during 2004-2005 cycle, not in Detroit, but is "under water" price wise, bought on speculation, paid for, and been living in Florida permanently since 2001..have not been to Michigan to see the mistakes..
The legal profession and the unions are the deep-pocketed sponsors of the Democrats..
Did you see where UPS dropped it's sponsorship of Jack Roush Racing, I believe the UPS bunch is unionized, and Fed-Ex is not..Roush is a Ford-Nascar oufit, also modifies Mustangs and trucks..I don't think Obama is a big "Nascar Fan"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, certainly not a Ford guy..
I haven't heard of UPS dropping its sponsorship with Fenway Roush racing. There is talk if Carl Edwards leave FR that UPS may move it's sponsorship to the new owner of the car he drives. But as of right now, UPS sponsors the car of another FR driver David Ragan.
UPS is unionized, has been Teamsters forever. FedEx is non union. Neither of their union situations has anything to do with their sponsorship dollars. That's all about getting exposure.
The UAW, if aligned for cooperative success, would have embraced robotics as a tool for future success in the factory. Not only the top production numbers which would have been a result, the quality, technological leading and career-enhancement benefits would have ensured that GM Ford and Chrysler would have ruled the industry.
How short-sighted to just concentrate on wages and benefits. Such a small piece of the ultimate career. The ultimate career for any automotive staff would be to be the best manufacturer and totally support the leading effort to build the best products instead of whining and striking for every dollar.
Of course, the top management is totally responsible to create an environment that supports this goal. Unfortunately, even today, GM management and UAW management does not....the rest just follow.
Too Bad! :sick:
Regards,
OW
I read somewhere that Obama owned a Chrysler 300 V8 before becoming president. Maybe he is a closet fan, but he can't carry the south so its not worth emphasizing?
That is what annoys me about you, you post as though the UAW rank & file might actually have SOME semblance of intelligence, and, we know they have the brains of the average Labrador retriever...no, wait, that insults my Lab...:):):)... :P
LOL, no kidding, my lab knows not to bite the hands that feed her;)
Let's look at Greece and the whole country is unionized, however Greece doesn't produce anything, no MONEY, BROKE, and living in a dream world like most of Europe..Fat salaries for all public workers, great pensions, retire early, and the Greeks are looking for a bail-out from the world...Too bad they can't print money like the USA..
UPS is dropping their sponsor for the the Roush team in 2012..Probably will go with the one of the GM teams..makes sense...Another outfit getting orders from the WH...
Somebody update me on the unionization of the transplants, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru, Kia, and Hyundai!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have lost track and being out of the business really not a top priority item..
The USA is beginning to look alot like Greece, Italy, Spain, Iceland when it comes to money woes, and we have some cities that are running out of pension funds..Elected morons negotiating labor contracts with public employees is an invitation for disaster..for everybody leaves the meeting "happy", not good, the taxpayer just got screwed...
Obama had a Chrysler Hemi and when he came under the public eye I think he switched to "hybrid Ford Explorer" if there is such an animal..Really don't want to talk about him..Depressing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will order my 2012 Mustang GT next week, special order Basic coupe Brembo pkg w/3.73 axle..Blk w/grey cloth interior, period...only options..ElCheapo..
Funny event on TV, Castle, last year the team was driving "black Chevy Tahoes/SUV", this year the big guns are piloting around in "Black Volts."
Can't wait until the Fla State Troopers are issued "Volts."
I guess GE will become the prime Volt customer..
Just had an oil changed in the Pontiac GT, 260 S/C V-6, Royal Purple, tires rebalanced, rotated, and it is smooth @62k miles..scary, the new engine mounts 30 days ago smoothed out the drivetrain. Oil change every 5k, synthetic, usually down a pint..The Camry hasn't been out of the garage in a month, and within 8 wks a Mustang will be it's garagemate..
Folks, don't fret over the UAW, there are bigger fish in the pond.. Just watch the bar across the street at lunch time..
My wife talked to her adopted son in Greece yesterday. His wife works directly for one of the ministers of something. She got a 50% cut in pay. His job went away completely. His property taxes more than doubled. His mother and mother-in-law both had their pensions cut 40%. I can remember many arguments with him when he visited here. He thought that the European way was so much better than ours. I wanted to ask what he thinks of his socialist government right about now.
Elected morons negotiating labor contracts with public employees is an invitation for disaster..for everybody leaves the meeting "happy", not good, the taxpayer just got screwed.
Even socialist FDR could see the fallacy in having government employees unionized. He was totally against it. Not sure how it got a foothold. When the states and Feds are broke and cannot pay the pensions you will hear some screaming. Never hear them saying maybe we should look at keeping this sustainable. They threaten the lives of politicians that want to mess with their gravy train in places like Wisconsin.
I think you are right. The UAW is gasping their last few breaths of air. UAW is going broke without the huge amounts coming into the coffers.
The UAW is running down the strike fund as income plummets and it lives beyond its means.
"A bloated management, run-away costs, declining market share, imploding volume, a sell-off of assets and investments, headquartered in Detroit" - It's the United Auto Workers.
http://metanoodle.blogspot.com/2011/09/uaw-going-broke-using-strike-fund-to.html-
UAW holds nose, backs free trade (Politico)
Ford, UAW Tentative Pact Means 12,000 Jobs (AutoObserver)
So far UAW production workers have voted in favor of the agreement by 50.1%, while 54.8% of skilled-trades workers have voted against the contract.
The results include votes from about 7.3% of the UAW’s local units.
Ford’s 41,000 workers at plants in several states will continue voting through the week on the tentative contract that the UAW and Ford reached last Tuesday.
Bill Johnson, plant chairman for UAW Local 900 in Wayne, said workers there narrowly voted to reject the contract.
UAW Local 900 represents workers at Michigan Assembly, where Ford builds the Focus compact car.
Members rejected the contract with 51.1% voting no and 48.9% voting yes, Johnson said.
http://www.freep.com/article/20111011/BUSINESS01/111011014/Results-mixed-early-U- AW-Ford-contract-voting
“The [GM] deal also will include creative ways to cut GM's hourly labor costs,” writes the AP. “GM pays around $56 per hour including wages and benefits, which is less than what Ford pays but far higher than other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co.” Ford pays $58 per hour.
No wonder some auto companies needed a bailout. $56 and $58 an hour? Most CEOs and small business owners make less than that.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Chief_Executive_Officer_%28CEO%29/Salary-
That's around $120K per year. I don't know many CEO's that earn anywhere near that low of a salary. Small business owners run a wide range. I'm sure some several employee ones don't make that, but I'm also sure many small business owners far exceed that number and I don't begrudge them because they are investing and risking capital.
"“The [GM] deal also will include creative ways to cut GM's hourly labor costs,” writes the AP. “GM pays around $56 per hour including wages and benefits, which is less than what Ford pays but far higher than other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co.” Ford pays $58 per hour."
I have used may examples of unskilled workers, like floorsweepers and lug nut tighteners making $35/hour plus benefits, and some folks howled at how ridiculous I was with my numbers...
I think $56-58 per hour makes the point...
Let's look at average CEO:worker compensation and see what is really what.
I posted a link. There are probably 100s of 1000s of CEOs in the USA. It said the average compensation was $68k to $444K depending on the state you are in. If you want to skew it to make it look bad you only take the top CEO's and show their obscene compensation.
The point of the article was a large portion of Ford UAW workers make as much as many CEOs and small business people. Not only that, they are likely going to reject the contract agreed upon by company and UAW leaders. So my advice to Ford. Send more jobs to Mexico. You will get good workers that are happy to have a high paying job in their area.
Oct. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The United Auto Workers said in a Facebook post that it will seek a strike if members vote against a tentative agreement with Ford Motor Co. and that union leaders expect the automaker would seek replacement workers.
Lots of people out of work would love to take those high paid jobs. Ford is selling lots of cars and trucks. They don't need the UAW shutting them down. I would love to see Ford break the UAW. Then they could build factories here instead of all over the World and hire lots of hard working folks that don't think they are worth $120k a year or more.
Let's look at CEO:worker compensation and trends over the past 20 years in the top 500 or 1000 corporations in the country to get a real picture.
And don't get me wrong, I think the Ford idiot workers are being foolish too.
Ford could have to scramble a bit if they want to get
scabsreplacement workers to cross a picket line, especially if they want workers with welding, CNC or other specialized skills.You're right, but usually an unincorporated company head is a President, while a corporation head is a CEO (and yes, there are some Chapter S small corporations but they tend to resemble unincorporated structures except for taxes and distributions). But here are a few more factors on the matter. First, the $58/hr for a company head survey is likely unloaded, whereas for the autoworker the number includes benefits which means the worker salary only is likely more in the $30 realm which I admit is a bit high unless the worker is in a difficult skill area. A corporation executive also gets things like bonuses, stock options and enhanced benefit packages that aren't reflected in the base pay. A private company owner has some tax advantages as well as often getting a company car and other company perks. The point I'm making is that surveys and comparisons have to be viewed carefully and in their full context. Otherwise they are no better than a political sound bite.
I understand your point, but these small companies are more like propreitorships and generally pay everyone far less than mid sized and up companies. However, the large number of them skew the survey downward. Very small companies have a lot of turnover, a lot of variance in annual financial performance and many bankruptcies. They also lose a lot of their better talent to higher paying companies. Personally, I'm leery of lumping them in with midsized and large companies to get an "average". It is like doing a financial analysis on a local hardware store and one on Lowe's or Home Depot and trying to draw comparisons.
Something more amusing would be to look at average public sector salaries compared to the others. 1:5 City of Seattle workers makes 6 figures, I wonder how this compares to the working world in general.
Only the republicans want to compare public salaries to the general public in this part of the country: most of the people without degrees and without HS diplomas often react with jealousy which is beneficial for the repubs at the voting box, they hope. Of course repubs then go on to benefit the WS gang and not care about the little people other than to use their jealousy at the voting booth.
But what is the distribution of incomes in Seattle? Not the average, let's see the quartiles, e.g.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,