Yeah. The Nissan Titan is being phased out and while the Toyota Tundra is just OK. I would go with Ford since they were not bailed out and the new engine line-up is sweet. Maybe one made in Mexico.
Plus one other factor...if the cars sold in India were junk and they were made by fellow Indians (that is the term, isn't it???...Indians???), they could only blame themselves instead of the UAW...
Neither of those is a full size pickup truck. The Tacoma is a mid-size and the Armada is an SUV.
I think you're referring to the Toyota Tundra and the Nissan Titan, don't know where the Titan is build but the Tundra is about the only truck that qualifies for what the OP asked. I'm not a fan of either.
from the Associated Press, commenting on the new contract between GM and UAW...
"Most GM workers make around $56 per hour in wages and benefits, less than at Ford but far higher than at other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co."
For those who have mocked me when I comment on floorsweepers making $35/hour, please explain this...to me, this seems to be the problem, and it has not gone away...while new hires DO make less (two-tiered pay scale?), this looks like lug but tighteners and janitors, whose jobs can be taught in less than an hour, are probably paid $35-40/hour before the benefits, for work that is barely worth minimum wage...
I saw mention of an earlier $4000 bonus. Is that bonus flat rate or is it stepped in proportion to the salary rate of the worker?
I find it interesting the settlement gives a $14 to $16 increase to the lower wage recent hires. Is there an increase for those at the top of the scale?
Because the UAW so avidly supports Democrats and especially supported Obama in 2008, so they support his "take from the rich and give to the poor" philosophy that Obama at least verbalizes?
If so, why aren't their bonuses, etc., doing exactly that? Give a large bonus to the low workers and no bonus for those $150,000 top workers? Or do they support a party goals but don't want to implement those goals for themselves.
I think Marsh should take a tour of an assembly plant around Atlanta to see what kind of work the people are actually doing. I did a tour of the Moraine plant a few years back before GM and UAW closed that plant because it was IUE union instead of UAW. The work effort was different than you decribe. It may not be $150,000 including all benefits in value, but it's more than $14 per hour.
Four year contract. Nothing specific though that I've seen yet, just the "well placed" rumors that you guys have mentioned about the bonuses, etc.
Different story at Chrysler with Marchionne sending King nasty grams, but the negotiators are still talking. And the UAW has already authorized a strike against Ford, but that's business as usual. The UAW gave up the right to strike when GM and Chrysler got bailed out.
"The deal likely will include sweeter profit-sharing checks instead of raises for most of GM’s 48,500 union workers in the U.S. Also likely is a raise for entry-level workers who make $14 to $16 per hour, about half the pay of a longtime auto worker.
"The union said in a statement that it successfully fought efforts by the company to weaken its defined-benefit pension plan, which is among the best in U.S. manufacturing.
"The company also wanted health care cuts, but the union protected those benefits and made improvements, the statement said. But it did not say whether workers will see higher co-pays or monthly premiums."
I don't think the Grocery Store clerks union learned much in their 3 month strike 8 years ago.
Ralphs says its stores will close if strike occurs
LOS ANGELES—Grocery store chains are laying plans in the event grocery workers decide to go on strike over stalled contract negotiations on Sunday night -- Ralphs will close, Albertsons may and Vons intends to stay open.
"If there is a strike, Ralphs will initially close all of our stores," said spokeswoman Kendra Doyel in a statement. "During a strike, it is difficult to create a good shopping experience for our customers and a good working environment for our employees."
Albertsons spokeswoman Christie Ly said in a statement that up to 100 Albertsons stores could close for some or all of the strike.
"One of the lessons we learned during the 2003-04 labor dispute is that it doesn't make good business sense to try to operate all our stores during a strike," said Ly
$5000 bonus for signing to 48000 members, plus improved health care and pension benefits plus improved profit sharing...Friends of the Obama WH obviously were on the team and since the Govt still has a big interest in GM they gave the ship away throwing money around in vote buying..Smelly deal and parallels the "Solyndra", solar panel scam which consumed $500,000,000++of taxpayer monies..
The old GM team was accused of giving the ship away, and I think the politicians outdid them with this "giveaway"..
After owning 34 GM cars over the years, the 34 th car in the car will be going soon and never again will a GM car/truck be in my garage...............never..........never..
After spending 13 yrs with a privately owned corporation which had 3 plants in the midwest with 2 plants dedicated to auto part components for the B3, and both plants were UAW organized , I can state that the union is beatable and costs of labor can be contained..We were able to have the union decertified in one plant, and the Michigan plant located 15mi from Flint was a huge profit center..
Ron Bloom, the auto czar, gave his buddies at the UAW the "pot of gold", hope Ford and Chrysler hold the line..
Ford management has shown foresight in expanding in Mexico and elsewhere. I think it is safe to say the UAW has managed to kill the goose that is laying the Golden Egg. When and if we get rid of the Marxist in Washington the UAW will not have the free rein they now enjoy. I will never buy another GM vehicle either. Of course in my opinion they are still behind the pack innovation wise.
"After owning 34 GM cars over the years, the 34 th car in the car will be going soon and never again will a GM car/truck be in my garage...............never..........never.."
If you cared about your neighbor's job, you will continue to buy GM for the rest of your life...:):):)...yeah, right...
circle: now this is where your ignorance shows...the Buick was made by the UAW, probably worth twice what the BMW is worth, and what do Germans know about making cars, anyway??? :P
OW, I swear you must work at MSNBC. You are famous for leaving things out.
You are comparing sticker prices. Do you believe those two cars can be bought in the real world for the same price? I believe you know the answer to that question.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
I find the hatred for the UAW laughable...and I don't know or never did know, a single person who was a UAW member.
Who would prefer a company employ workers in Mexico over the U.S.? Good grief, man.
FWIW, in Hemmings Classic Car a few months back, a reader penned an article about the summer he worked in the late '50's at a GM plant. He said he would never complain about what those guys got paid because it without question was the hardest job he ever had.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
If someone hates unions, they have to hate German cars too - everything is unionized there. Of course, socialized healthcare (aka higher personal taxes) make some burden easier, along with better upper managerial/exec skills and planning and a lower multiple between CEO/actual worker salaries...
Just like if one hates bailouts and federal aid/coddling/favoritism etc, they should hate Hyunkia...oh wait, it's who's money is being spent, not the actual ideal. No hypocrisy there, no way no how :shades:
Oh yes, of course. The Buick will OBVIOUSLY have HUGE incentives that will bring the real OTD price around $32K. The Bimmer will not have that advantage. GM sets the incentive STANDARD OF THE AUTO WORLD. NO ONE beats GM incentives. Does wonders to the bottom line as UAW costs increase, don't you know?
Problem is, the Buick in no way will come close to the luxury AND performance proposition the BMW delivers. If the incentive is the better car,I believe you know the answer to the question: Which one would you buy if you want the better car?
He said he would never complain about what those guys got paid because it without question was the hardest job he ever had.
He probably never dug ditches by hand 8-10 hours per day. Or picked fruit all day long. There are 1000s of menial jobs that pay a whole lot less than what a lug nut installer gets working on a UAW job. Unless they are repairing the equipment they are working on it is menial labor. Worth what ever the cheapest laborer is willing to work for. Which is about minimum wage in this economy. The problem as I see it is the UAW worker has always been over paid. When reality set in and other automakers started building better cars with Non Union labor, they tried to maintain their unrealistic wage package. So they have lost 1000s of jobs as a result. They cannot blame the automakers for going to Mexico. They had to do something to compete with the rest of the World. They could not compete then and cannot compete now without our tax dollars propping them up. Now it is the tax payer getting screwed by the UAW. When a person is in Alabama making $10 per hour, it is tough to feel sorry for the guy at GM making $30 with a fancy retirement and HC package when it is coming out of the tax payers pocket.
If someone hates unions, they have to hate German cars too - everything is unionized there. Of course, socialized healthcare
So is Mexico.
The real blame lies with GM management being in bed with the UAW leaders. They sold out to them decades ago with their ponzi scheme health and pension plan. Then woke up one morning and realized that better cars were kicking their butts. That meant less money coming in and more going out.
I won't make any excuses for over paid executives. That is a fault of our corporate welfare system.
Michael Barone As President, Obama Acts as Shop Steward in Chief
Fully one-third of the $820 billion stimulus package passed almost entirely with Democratic votes in 2009 was aid to state and local governments.
This was intended to keep state and local public employee union members -- much more numerous than federal employees -- on the job and to keep taxpayer-funded union dues pouring into public employee union treasuries.
It was just last year that, for the first time in history, public employees came to account for a majority of union members. This is a vivid contrast from the peak union membership years of the 1950s, when more than one-third of private-sector workers but almost no government workers were union members.
Which is not to say that the Obama administration has not looked after the interests of private-sector unions. In arranging the Chrysler bankruptcy, the Obama White House muscled aside the secured creditors who ordinarily have priority in bankruptcy proceedings in favor of United Auto Workers members and retirees.
The 2009 stimulus package also contained Davis-Bacon law provisions requiring that construction workers be paid "prevailing wages," which under the bureaucratic formula turn out to be union wages. That means the public pays a premium for government construction.
It also means that Labor Department bureaucrats must calculate "prevailing wage" rates for as many as 3,141 counties. That takes time, and it's one reason there were not nearly so many shovel-ready projects as presidential rhetoric led some, including the president, to think.
In the meantime, the administration has gone to great pains to promote union representation in private-sector companies even where there's no indication employees want it.
It appointed pro-union stalwarts to the board supervising airline industry unionization elections. That board changed longstanding rules on what counts as a majority in an attempt to get unions approved at mostly non-union Delta after it absorbed mostly unionized Northwest.
The problem is that the employees kept voting against unionization anyway.
Then there's the Boeing case.
Obama has called for doubling American exports over the next five years. But when America's No. 1 exporter, Boeing, built a $1 billion Dreamliner plant in South Carolina, Obama's appointee as general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board brought a case to force it to shut down.
The theory is that Boeing needs to build the airliner in pro-union Washington state rather than in South Carolina, whose right-to-work law bars requiring employees to join unions. Maximizing union membership evidently comes first, before all other goals.
The Obama White House won't comment on the Boeing case, just as Obama himself had no comment when Teamsters President Jim Hoffa, introducing him at a Labor Day rally in Detroit, said of tea party backers, "Let's take these sons of bitches out."
The president's eloquent and apparently heartfelt pleas for civility voiced after the Tucson shootings apparently don't apply to union leaders.
Obama's partiality to unions is apparently rooted in a conviction that we would be better off if every employee were represented by a union.
The marketplace says otherwise. Private-sector unionism has produced the General Motors and Chrysler bankruptcies, while states with strong public-sector unions, according to a Harvard study, have to pay higher interest rates to borrow money.
But unions do have one positive characteristic from Obama's point of view: They funnel taxpayers' or consumers' money to the Democratic Party -- $400 million in 2008. So they get one payoff after another in return.
>"They funnel taxpayers' or consumers' money to the Democratic Party -- $400 million in 2008. "
That sounds like a Republican twist to the truth. Did ATT pay you with money from consumers or from government (taxpayers) to build things up North? Why didn't they pay you with their own money?
Did some of your money get taken in Union Dues that got used for various purposes, some not that which you would have preferred? Did some of that consumer and public agency monies get turned into support for politicians?
Everytime I hear that kind of line, I get amused. It's a perversion.
"It was just last year that, for the first time in history, public employees came to account for a majority of union members. This is a vivid contrast from the peak union membership years of the 1950s, when more than one-third of private-sector workers but almost no government workers were union members. "
This statement explains why lately Rush et al started in on the public unions. They represent more of a majority than general unions. Rush had worked on the public schools for decades as negatives. The Koch Bros and the hidden Republican agenda have pretty much smeared them in the minds of many as ineffective and awful. Much as the Democrat media did to the Bushs through the 16 years.
Currently the issue is ripe in Ohio with the big business money coming in from outside to support the continuation of SB 5 passed to neuter the unions under the disguise of saving money. It's the topic de jeur of the Dayton Daily News for today and the past few days.
The lie comes in the 5.5 billion extra spent over the previous biannual budget. However they had announced they had to cut 8 billion over 2 years. So why spend an extra 5.5? Just start cutting that way back and then start your other cuts.
Instead they spend the 5.5, and then cut 8 billion from payments to cities, schools, etc., so they can cut the 8 from their workers (not their management).
So the public union hatred is now being applied as jealousy of the teachers who have two or more degrees in most cases who are doing just fine. The mantra is that those teachers earn more than the people in the communities--never a mention that the majority of them probably didn't pass high school with A's and B's let alone get a college degree. So why compare salaries. What does the local attorney get paid? $200 /hr? He has two degrees, e.g.
So the end result is the same jealousy of the UAW's who were overpaid. Most didn't have college degrees nor were degrees needed to twist lugnuts on 5 at a time with a machine suspending in midair. So they were overpaid.
But the union hatred spread to the public unions. Same lack of logic. Same interference from government politicians, Republicans in some cases and Democrats in others. But mostly Republics because of the money. It's okay for the Koch Bros and big business to pour money into Ohio to run the state, but it's not okay for individuals to have union money to support or oppose bills or referendums. Hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans.
Long ago Ohio was run by the banks and the insurance companies. Not much has changed.
The big scam is firing public employees so the big shots can hire contractors and sub 'em back to the states and the feds at three times the salary that the taxpayers were paying the union workers.
Kind of like hiring, oh, Lutz back at GM for three times what he's worth.
>The big scam is firing public employees so the big shots can hire contractors and sub 'em back to the states and the feds at three times the salary that the taxpayers were paying the union workers.
That would be like a power guy (White Hat ?) opening charter schools in Ohio to collect Ohio public monies to run them at great profit to him as they close public schools as enrollment in public schools drops.
That would be like the recent article about eliminating jobs at military bases (Wright Patterson AFB) and paying contractors multiples (3-5 times the cost) to provide those services.
I recently heard that one in five workers for the city of Seattle is making six figures. Seems a bit more than the population in general, even when comparing people of identical credentials. I can't believe that wouldn't happen without a union that is able to force its way into operating under less than honest conditions. If the shrill right is able to scream about private sector union evils, the public sector unions who are just as troublesome need to be fought too. Police unions among them, even though it seems to be a taboo subject somehow.
This dude would've cheered for [non-permissible content removed] Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan during WWII. I can't understand an American citizen cheering for his foreign economic enemies at the peril of his fellow citizens and ultimately his own well-being. I hope his Asian masters are kind to him for his collaboration. Maybe he'll get the better grade of gruel.
Perhaps the UAW and the Detroit-based auto firms can be happy they are in business. Here's why we can never forget the failure of the corporate business model that led to the most extraordinary failure in United States industry:
Let me put it this way. The products failed the customers who left in droves. Don't blame the customers.
Did ATT pay you with money from consumers or from government (taxpayers) to build things up North?
Funny you should ask. In fact we did get subsidized heavily in the Arctic. It was welfare for the Eskimos. We were given tax dollars to bring them into the 20th century and now the 21st century. It was not AT&T the last 25 years. We were a very small Cooperative Phone company. The oil companies got the shaft on communications and the Eskimo villages were given premier service. When you consider when I went to work in Alaska most the villages had zero communications with the outside world. It was RCA when I went to work and they suggested we become Union. When the interest was not there, they cut everybodies pay and we all signed Union cards the following day.
So the public union hatred is now being applied as jealousy of the teachers who have two or more degrees in most cases who are doing just fine.
It is not just teachers Unions I believe to be WRONG. It is all public employee Unions. There is no accountability to those paying the bills. They should have NEVER been allowed to exist. Not sure who started it but it is something that should be abolished. Public employees should not be allowed to strike under any circumstance. They are public servants and should start acting like they are.
if my memory serves...1-6 were taken, or maybe 1-4 were taken, and, rather than work my way up one at a time, I jumped to 7 and they took it...
Second, username marsha was named after my wife, who is named Marsha without any numbers (just in case you were curious...:):)...)
My name is Bob but I did not name my username after me, so, if you have been here awhile in the topics I post, folks refer to me using both names interchangeably...
And, yes, I really am a bankruptcy and personal injury lawyer...
And I really did live in Detroit in the 1980s, and it was there that I learned how destructive the UAW can be, and I assur you that most union members I met had the IQ of my dog, or less...that IS what they are, like it or not...
What also amazed me in Detroit was the hostility toward the UAW that other non-UAW folks had...I was surprised at how many non-auto folks thought UAW cars were absolute junk, and how they were flocking to Hondas and Toyotas and were ecstatic with their import cars...it wasn't just me as anti-union, a good number of Detroiters hated the UAW with a passion and were quite happy to desert the Big 3 for an import...and these were folks who had lived in Detroit say, 20-40 years, long before I got there...living there, they knew what it took me some time to figure out, and my comments about the UAW simply reflect what I learned...they made junk and they are idiots, and to call them "skilled labor" makes as much sense as calling Obama a libertarian...
Just to be clear on government employees in unions most are prohibited by law from striking. I've been in public employment for 31 years without a strike. In addition to the law it is specifically prohibited in our contract as well.
I'd just as soon not have any union vs. our current union. Strictly there to pick our pockets. Previous union was better and was much more concerned about how the employees as a group were treated.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
They are public servants and should start acting like they are.
I've never liked that term "public servant". Makes 'em sound like they are doing the public a favor. They are public sector workers, that get paid a mighty fine salary and are given a generous benefits package to do a job (in some cases, anyway )
I don't disagree with you. However many politicians in their flowery campaign speeches will refer to their longing to go into Public Service. That means to me they are there to serve the people. Permanent public sector jobs are somewhat different. When teachers, policemen, air traffic controllers or firemen go on strike, I just feel it is wrong. The only strike I was ever a part of was in 1968 when the CWA went on strike against Pacific Telephone. I did not gain back that 2 weeks of pay before I quit and went to Alaska. Our Teamster contract covering the long distance phone service in the state had a no strike clause. 37 years as a Teamster I was never on strike. We considered our jobs vital to the communications for the people of Alaska. I just don't get the feeling the Union people in places like Wisconsin give a rip about the students they teach or the public they are paid to protect.
There is a big difference between politicians going into public service and ordinary folks that work for government entities. I'd venture to say that the latter really don't like dealing with the former.
Although many will chastise me for bringing it up, most public sector employees don't take part in the Social Security system. Not that it's a bad thing but it is the reason for the pensions.
Comments
That chorus (the last part) I knew from memory...
What about Schlitz...GM should remember the slogan. That's why they went C11.... No more steel for the door panels.
"When your out of Schlitz, your out of Beer!"
RIP, 1982, acquired by Stroh Brewing. Kept in Detroit, at least.
Regards,
OW
Thanks.
Unfortunately neither has a great track record when compared to the Big 3 full size trucks.
They took er jerbs!!!!
Gotta love those folks worried about small potatoes in money compared to the financial district's bailouts.
Here's your Ford:
1 billion dollar investment in India. 5000 jobs.
http://www.france24.com/en/20110906-ford-building-1bn-manufacturing-complex-indi- a
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do you really think Ford could make a price competitive car for sale in India making it anywhere else?
Neither of those is a full size pickup truck. The Tacoma is a mid-size and the Armada is an SUV.
I think you're referring to the Toyota Tundra and the Nissan Titan, don't know where the Titan is build but the Tundra is about the only truck that qualifies for what the OP asked. I'm not a fan of either.
The Tundra is made in San Antonio, TX and the Titan is made in Canton, MS.
Don't feel too bad...I read your post, had the mental picture of the Tundra and Titan, but didn't even notice you called them "Tacoma" and "Armada".
I've heard rumors that the Armada and Titan are being phased out...wonder if it's true or not?
"Most GM workers make around $56 per hour in wages and benefits, less than at Ford but far higher than at other companies like Chrysler and Hyundai Motor Co."
For those who have mocked me when I comment on floorsweepers making $35/hour, please explain this...to me, this seems to be the problem, and it has not gone away...while new hires DO make less (two-tiered pay scale?), this looks like lug but tighteners and janitors, whose jobs can be taught in less than an hour, are probably paid $35-40/hour before the benefits, for work that is barely worth minimum wage...
I find it interesting the settlement gives a $14 to $16 increase to the lower wage recent hires. Is there an increase for those at the top of the scale?
Because the UAW so avidly supports Democrats and especially supported Obama in 2008, so they support his "take from the rich and give to the poor" philosophy that Obama at least verbalizes?
If so, why aren't their bonuses, etc., doing exactly that? Give a large bonus to the low workers and no bonus for those $150,000 top workers? Or do they support a party goals but don't want to implement those goals for themselves.
I think Marsh should take a tour of an assembly plant around Atlanta to see what kind of work the people are actually doing. I did a tour of the Moraine plant a few years back before GM and UAW closed that plant because it was IUE union instead of UAW. The work effort was different than you decribe. It may not be $150,000 including all benefits in value, but it's more than $14 per hour.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Four year contract. Nothing specific though that I've seen yet, just the "well placed" rumors that you guys have mentioned about the bonuses, etc.
Different story at Chrysler with Marchionne sending King nasty grams, but the negotiators are still talking. And the UAW has already authorized a strike against Ford, but that's business as usual. The UAW gave up the right to strike when GM and Chrysler got bailed out.
"The union said in a statement that it successfully fought efforts by the company to weaken its defined-benefit pension plan, which is among the best in U.S. manufacturing.
"The company also wanted health care cuts, but the union protected those benefits and made improvements, the statement said. But it did not say whether workers will see higher co-pays or monthly premiums."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63733.html#ixzz1YDzrIDqq
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/63733.html#ixzz1YDzdiT00
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Go Hyundai/Kia! :shades:
Regards,
OW
Ralphs says its stores will close if strike occurs
LOS ANGELES—Grocery store chains are laying plans in the event grocery workers decide to go on strike over stalled contract negotiations on Sunday night -- Ralphs will close, Albertsons may and Vons intends to stay open.
"If there is a strike, Ralphs will initially close all of our stores," said spokeswoman Kendra Doyel in a statement. "During a strike, it is difficult to create a good shopping experience for our customers and a good working environment for our employees."
Albertsons spokeswoman Christie Ly said in a statement that up to 100 Albertsons stores could close for some or all of the strike.
"One of the lessons we learned during the 2003-04 labor dispute is that it doesn't make good business sense to try to operate all our stores during a strike," said Ly
The old GM team was accused of giving the ship away, and I think the politicians outdid them with this "giveaway"..
After owning 34 GM cars over the years, the 34 th car in the car will be going soon and never again will a GM car/truck be in my garage...............never..........never..
After spending 13 yrs with a privately owned corporation which had 3 plants in the midwest with 2 plants dedicated to auto part components for the B3, and both plants were UAW organized , I can state that the union is beatable and costs of labor can be contained..We were able to have the union decertified in one plant, and the Michigan plant located 15mi from Flint was a huge profit center..
Ron Bloom, the auto czar, gave his buddies at the UAW the "pot of gold", hope Ford and Chrysler hold the line..
If you cared about your neighbor's job, you will continue to buy GM for the rest of your life...:):):)...yeah, right...
TOO MUCH BETTER COMPETITION OUT THERE.
Here is an example: Regal GS, handsomely equipped for $38K.
BMW 328 w/sport/premium/cold/Conv. pkg = $39,900.
Good luck Buick!
Regards,
OW
You are comparing sticker prices. Do you believe those two cars can be bought in the real world for the same price? I believe you know the answer to that question.
Who would prefer a company employ workers in Mexico over the U.S.? Good grief, man.
FWIW, in Hemmings Classic Car a few months back, a reader penned an article about the summer he worked in the late '50's at a GM plant. He said he would never complain about what those guys got paid because it without question was the hardest job he ever had.
If someone hates unions, they have to hate German cars too - everything is unionized there. Of course, socialized healthcare (aka higher personal taxes) make some burden easier, along with better upper managerial/exec skills and planning and a lower multiple between CEO/actual worker salaries...
Just like if one hates bailouts and federal aid/coddling/favoritism etc, they should hate Hyunkia...oh wait, it's who's money is being spent, not the actual ideal. No hypocrisy there, no way no how :shades:
Problem is, the Buick in no way will come close to the luxury AND performance proposition the BMW delivers. If the incentive is the better car,I believe you know the answer to the question: Which one would you buy if you want the better car?
I swear you work for GM, ULG! Gotta Be!
BTW, ever even test drive a BMW?
Regards,
OW
He probably never dug ditches by hand 8-10 hours per day. Or picked fruit all day long. There are 1000s of menial jobs that pay a whole lot less than what a lug nut installer gets working on a UAW job. Unless they are repairing the equipment they are working on it is menial labor. Worth what ever the cheapest laborer is willing to work for. Which is about minimum wage in this economy. The problem as I see it is the UAW worker has always been over paid. When reality set in and other automakers started building better cars with Non Union labor, they tried to maintain their unrealistic wage package. So they have lost 1000s of jobs as a result. They cannot blame the automakers for going to Mexico. They had to do something to compete with the rest of the World. They could not compete then and cannot compete now without our tax dollars propping them up. Now it is the tax payer getting screwed by the UAW. When a person is in Alabama making $10 per hour, it is tough to feel sorry for the guy at GM making $30 with a fancy retirement and HC package when it is coming out of the tax payers pocket.
So is Mexico.
The real blame lies with GM management being in bed with the UAW leaders. They sold out to them decades ago with their ponzi scheme health and pension plan. Then woke up one morning and realized that better cars were kicking their butts. That meant less money coming in and more going out.
I won't make any excuses for over paid executives. That is a fault of our corporate welfare system.
As President, Obama Acts as Shop Steward in Chief
Fully one-third of the $820 billion stimulus package passed almost entirely with Democratic votes in 2009 was aid to state and local governments.
This was intended to keep state and local public employee union members -- much more numerous than federal employees -- on the job and to keep taxpayer-funded union dues pouring into public employee union treasuries.
It was just last year that, for the first time in history, public employees came to account for a majority of union members. This is a vivid contrast from the peak union membership years of the 1950s, when more than one-third of private-sector workers but almost no government workers were union members.
Which is not to say that the Obama administration has not looked after the interests of private-sector unions. In arranging the Chrysler bankruptcy, the Obama White House muscled aside the secured creditors who ordinarily have priority in bankruptcy proceedings in favor of United Auto Workers members and retirees.
The 2009 stimulus package also contained Davis-Bacon law provisions requiring that construction workers be paid "prevailing wages," which under the bureaucratic formula turn out to be union wages. That means the public pays a premium for government construction.
It also means that Labor Department bureaucrats must calculate "prevailing wage" rates for as many as 3,141 counties. That takes time, and it's one reason there were not nearly so many shovel-ready projects as presidential rhetoric led some, including the president, to think.
In the meantime, the administration has gone to great pains to promote union representation in private-sector companies even where there's no indication employees want it.
It appointed pro-union stalwarts to the board supervising airline industry unionization elections. That board changed longstanding rules on what counts as a majority in an attempt to get unions approved at mostly non-union Delta after it absorbed mostly unionized Northwest.
The problem is that the employees kept voting against unionization anyway.
Then there's the Boeing case.
Obama has called for doubling American exports over the next five years. But when America's No. 1 exporter, Boeing, built a $1 billion Dreamliner plant in South Carolina, Obama's appointee as general counsel of the National Labor Relations Board brought a case to force it to shut down.
The theory is that Boeing needs to build the airliner in pro-union Washington state rather than in South Carolina, whose right-to-work law bars requiring employees to join unions. Maximizing union membership evidently comes first, before all other goals.
The Obama White House won't comment on the Boeing case, just as Obama himself had no comment when Teamsters President Jim Hoffa, introducing him at a Labor Day rally in Detroit, said of tea party backers, "Let's take these sons of bitches out."
The president's eloquent and apparently heartfelt pleas for civility voiced after the Tucson shootings apparently don't apply to union leaders.
Obama's partiality to unions is apparently rooted in a conviction that we would be better off if every employee were represented by a union.
The marketplace says otherwise. Private-sector unionism has produced the General Motors and Chrysler bankruptcies, while states with strong public-sector unions, according to a Harvard study, have to pay higher interest rates to borrow money.
But unions do have one positive characteristic from Obama's point of view: They funnel taxpayers' or consumers' money to the Democratic Party -- $400 million in 2008. So they get one payoff after another in return.
That sounds like a Republican twist to the truth. Did ATT pay you with money from consumers or from government (taxpayers) to build things up North? Why didn't they pay you with their own money?
Did some of your money get taken in Union Dues that got used for various purposes, some not that which you would have preferred? Did some of that consumer and public agency monies get turned into support for politicians?
Everytime I hear that kind of line, I get amused. It's a perversion.
"It was just last year that, for the first time in history, public employees came to account for a majority of union members. This is a vivid contrast from the peak union membership years of the 1950s, when more than one-third of private-sector workers but almost no government workers were union members. "
This statement explains why lately Rush et al started in on the public unions. They represent more of a majority than general unions. Rush had worked on the public schools for decades as negatives. The Koch Bros and the hidden Republican agenda have pretty much smeared them in the minds of many as ineffective and awful. Much as the Democrat media did to the Bushs through the 16 years.
Currently the issue is ripe in Ohio with the big business money coming in from outside to support the continuation of SB 5 passed to neuter the unions under the disguise of saving money. It's the topic de jeur of the Dayton Daily News for today and the past few days.
The lie comes in the 5.5 billion extra spent over the previous biannual budget. However they had announced they had to cut 8 billion over 2 years. So why spend an extra 5.5? Just start cutting that way back and then start your other cuts.
Instead they spend the 5.5, and then cut 8 billion from payments to cities, schools, etc., so they can cut the 8 from their workers (not their management).
So the public union hatred is now being applied as jealousy of the teachers who have two or more degrees in most cases who are doing just fine. The mantra is that those teachers earn more than the people in the communities--never a mention that the majority of them probably didn't pass high school with A's and B's let alone get a college degree. So why compare salaries. What does the local attorney get paid? $200 /hr? He has two degrees, e.g.
So the end result is the same jealousy of the UAW's who were overpaid. Most didn't have college degrees nor were degrees needed to twist lugnuts on 5 at a time with a machine suspending in midair. So they were overpaid.
But the union hatred spread to the public unions. Same lack of logic. Same interference from government politicians, Republicans in some cases and Democrats in others. But mostly Republics because of the money. It's okay for the Koch Bros and big business to pour money into Ohio to run the state, but it's not okay for individuals to have union money to support or oppose bills or referendums. Hypocrisy on the part of the Republicans.
Long ago Ohio was run by the banks and the insurance companies. Not much has changed.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Kind of like hiring, oh, Lutz back at GM for three times what he's worth.
That would be like a power guy (White Hat ?) opening charter schools in Ohio to collect Ohio public monies to run them at great profit to him as they close public schools as enrollment in public schools drops.
That would be like the recent article about eliminating jobs at military bases (Wright Patterson AFB) and paying contractors multiples (3-5 times the cost) to provide those services.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Let me put it this way. The products failed the customers who left in droves. Don't blame the customers.
Regards,
OW
Funny you should ask. In fact we did get subsidized heavily in the Arctic. It was welfare for the Eskimos. We were given tax dollars to bring them into the 20th century and now the 21st century. It was not AT&T the last 25 years. We were a very small Cooperative Phone company. The oil companies got the shaft on communications and the Eskimo villages were given premier service. When you consider when I went to work in Alaska most the villages had zero communications with the outside world. It was RCA when I went to work and they suggested we become Union. When the interest was not there, they cut everybodies pay and we all signed Union cards the following day.
So the public union hatred is now being applied as jealousy of the teachers who have two or more degrees in most cases who are doing just fine.
It is not just teachers Unions I believe to be WRONG. It is all public employee Unions. There is no accountability to those paying the bills. They should have NEVER been allowed to exist. Not sure who started it but it is something that should be abolished. Public employees should not be allowed to strike under any circumstance. They are public servants and should start acting like they are.
Second, username marsha was named after my wife, who is named Marsha without any numbers (just in case you were curious...:):)...)
My name is Bob but I did not name my username after me, so, if you have been here awhile in the topics I post, folks refer to me using both names interchangeably...
And, yes, I really am a bankruptcy and personal injury lawyer...
And I really did live in Detroit in the 1980s, and it was there that I learned how destructive the UAW can be, and I assur you that most union members I met had the IQ of my dog, or less...that IS what they are, like it or not...
What also amazed me in Detroit was the hostility toward the UAW that other non-UAW folks had...I was surprised at how many non-auto folks thought UAW cars were absolute junk, and how they were flocking to Hondas and Toyotas and were ecstatic with their import cars...it wasn't just me as anti-union, a good number of Detroiters hated the UAW with a passion and were quite happy to desert the Big 3 for an import...and these were folks who had lived in Detroit say, 20-40 years, long before I got there...living there, they knew what it took me some time to figure out, and my comments about the UAW simply reflect what I learned...they made junk and they are idiots, and to call them "skilled labor" makes as much sense as calling Obama a libertarian...
I'd just as soon not have any union vs. our current union. Strictly there to pick our pockets. Previous union was better and was much more concerned about how the employees as a group were treated.
I've never liked that term "public servant". Makes 'em sound like they are doing the public a favor. They are public sector workers, that get paid a mighty fine salary and are given a generous benefits package to do a job (in some cases, anyway
Although many will chastise me for bringing it up, most public sector employees don't take part in the Social Security system. Not that it's a bad thing but it is the reason for the pensions.