I'm sure their pension goes up with the number of years worked. These are defined benefit plans. You "earn" XXX dollars for each year you work. XXX may be related to your salary in each year, or may be tied to your highest 3 (or something) years of earnings. In either case, if you work 10 more years you get 10*XXX more each month.
On a side note, many public employees pension benefits are tied to their highest 3 years average, which is usually their last 3 years working. But, that salary includes OT pay. Recently there was the case of public bus drivers retiring with $100K+ yearly pensions because they racked up a lot of OT in the last couple of years of working. Another scam on the taxpayers, IMM.
Recently there was the case of public bus drivers retiring with $100K+ yearly pensions because they racked up a lot of OT in the last couple of years of working. Another scam on the taxpayers, IMM.
That is exactly what drove Vallejo California into bankruptcy. It should be based on contributions throughout the career. Not based on salary or wages. That is why the 401K has taken the place of the defined benefit plans in most of the private sector. We were fortunate enough to have both the last several years I worked. I like a back up plan. With all the Ponzi schemes for retirement, the future for young people is bleak. There best bet is a 401K they have control of. It can be purely savings with whatever interest it draws. Or very aggressive with the risks involved. It puts the future back in the hands of the person.
"......I think the idea that we can afford to have people retire at 50 years old and possibly live to 100 has got to change. It's just to expensive. SS and the pension system isn't designed for that and it will bankrupt us all if it doesn't change."
I agree wholeheartedly. I think this whole idea of early retirement started in the '80's, when some educated people who made very wise investments were able to retire in their 50's. Now, it seems as if everybody thinks it's their God given right to retire at "55" instead of "65".
My impression has always been that pensions were designed for someone to step out of HS or college (or the military), go to work until you are 62 or thereabouts, and collect your pension and SS until you passed away at around 75 or so.
Nowadays, people don't start at these companies until later in life, think 30 years is the bogey, and then want to bail and collect their pension for 30, 40, or 50 years.
If that isn't bad enough, companies abuse their own pensions by dumping jobs through attrition, dumping "payroll" into the pension fund prematurely, adding even more pressure to the system.
Right now, there are rumors where we work of an offer that's "too good to be true". An offer that would allow my wife to "retire" at 42, after 23 years of service, and collect her pension, plus HC bennies, too. Normally, I would say the hell with it, as another 15 years of work would baloon her 401k, plus the salary, plus having a pension based on 38 yrs service instead of 29 (this rumored offer would add 6 yrs to her service). But with the uncertainty surrounding our company (rumors are flying) makes us think of having her just bail and take a lump sum pension, roll it all into the 401k, and move on. I think she would end up with close to $600,000 including what's already in there. But I also wonder how that would affect my pension years down the road when I retire if too many people go too soon.
I think the Feds have screwed our pensions up enough. ERISA had some good points. It also had some real stumbling blocks. Most deal with limits to pension payouts. I worked with a guy that retired at 52 because working longer was a waste of money. He reached the limits set by ERISA. No matter how much longer he worked he would not get anymore retirement. He was in the Operating Engineers Union. He retired at about $7200 per month. More than he was making on the job.
PS most of his hours were during the building of the AK pipeline. He had one whole year without a day off. Worked 12-18 hours per day. That was not uncommon during the 1970s pipeline construction period.
I'm thinking more along the lines of when you can start collecting. If everybody was required to wait until they were 59 like a 401k, regardless of when they retire, that may bring some stability to the system.
Eye-opening hearings in Congress have showed America that Toyota is willing to put the safety of drivers at risk.
Now it's clear they're willing to put longtime employees' jobs at risk as well. Toyota has announced plans to close a 25-year old factory in California by the end of this month.
Laying off 5,000 workers will only be the beginning. The closure will decimate an entire community.
50,000 workers, vendors, and suppliers – and the families who depend on them – could immediately lose their livelihoods.
Tell Toyota: Your workers and customers deserve better. Keep the Fremont plant open!
Toyota was the #1 beneficiary of the "cash for clunkers" program. And they've also benefited from millions of dollars in government-paid training.
But despite strong U.S. sales and all the taxpayer support Toyota has gotten over the years, they're moving California Corolla production to Japan and to a non-union plant in Canada.
If you're outraged that Toyota is benefiting from subsidies and turning around and abandoning an entire community, let their leadership know!
Toyota got its start in America when it opened the Fremont, CA, plant they are about to shut down. Over the years, an entire community was built around the plant.
If Toyota shuts down this factory, it'll be the largest mass layoff in California since the Great Recession began. The chain reaction will impact 200,000 people. School teachers, small business owners, police officers, firefighters, and even local beauticians all depend on the plant to boost tax revenue and consumer spending.
In spite of its recent troubles, Toyota remains an extremely successful company. Toyota can definitely afford to keep the plant open. But we have to act quickly, because the plant is slated to close on March 31.
GM bailed on NUMMI first. That has always been a political operation. It sits in one of the most expensive areas in the USA. CA may be the WORST state to deal with as a manufacturer. I don't blame Toyota for following GM out of California. Toyota has plenty of capacity in lightly used factories like their new one in San Antonio. The UAW is one of the reasons GM went bankrupt. Why would any other automaker want that kind of noose around their neck?
GM pulled out of the NUMMI venture last year, as part of it's reorganization. GM's holdings in NUMMI were part pf the "old" GM that is being liquidated. If the new GM doesn't see any business advantage to NUMMI, why should Toyota?
You also forgot to mention that Toyota is moving production of the Tacoma to San Antonio, Texas.
Besides, Intel (the world's largest maker of microprocessors) has a place or two in Fremont. I'm sure those highly skilled auto workers will have no problem at all finding a job there.
I have noticed many here claim how great working in Germany is. Just read this piece where the Germans will not help Greece any more. Claiming they are lazy. No UAW 50 year old retirement for Germans. I am sure they would consider UAW workers lazy by German standards.
Dear prime minister,
If you're reading this, you've entered a country different from yours. You're in Germany.
Here, people work until they are 67 and there is no 14th-month salary for civil servants. Here, nobody needs to pay a €1,000 bribe to get a hospital bed in time.
Our petrol stations have cash registers, taxi drivers give receipts and farmers don't swindle EU subsidies with millions of non-existent olive trees.
Germany also has high debts but we can settle them. That's because we get up early and work all day.
We want to be friends with the Greeks. That's why since joining the euro, Germany has given your country €50bn.
Sounds like the Teamsters of old. When Hoffa was tight with the Mafia, lending pension fund money for all sorts of shady enterprises. That was the reason when Teamster local 959 was formed in the early 1960s for the state of Alaska, they maintained a totally separate approach. We did not even contribute to the International until the 1990s. Our pension fund is completely separate with a local board of trustees.
When corruption takes control of a Union it runs the risk of exposure and demise. The UAW is experiencing just such a demise. Being strong armed for the members is one thing. Being corrupt with the members money is not acceptable.
Seems every appointment to the current administration builds a stronger image of Chicago mafia control.
I'm not sure why this is directed at Toyota. Dropping one plant after being in this country for 25 years is nothing compared to the loss of jobs caused by F, C, and GM. Is there are reason that it is terrible for Toyota but not for the others?
Note that this is also (AFAIK) Toyota's only unionized plant, since it was a joint venture with GM. So I could argue that it is the GM connection that caused it to be closed, and another blame on GM.
It has been nearly six months since the tragic sudden acceleration crash that killed California highway patrolman Mark Saylor and his family. In that time, we have learned:
at least 34 people have been killed in sudden acceleration crashes Toyota has known about the problem for more than five years Toyota employed former NHTSA regulators to avoid safety recalls Toyota bragged about saving $100 million in avoiding a full recall because of the sudden acceleration problem A "win" for Toyota was a loss for safety.
Throughout the sudden acceleration time line, one thing has been consistent: If Toyota has consistently misled the public about the nature and severity of the Toyota sudden acceleration problem:
Toyota Lie: No Defect Exists In 3.8 Million Vehicles Initially Recalled
Do you remember this one? Back in November 2009, Toyota issued a statement to the public declaring that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ("NHTSA") had determined there was no safety defect in the 3.8 million vehicles Toyota had just recalled because they had a safety defect!
NHTSA was so shocked that it issued a public rebuke of Toyota's comments calling them "inaccurate and misleading."
After receiving millions in the taxpayer-funded Cash for Clunkers bailout, Toyota plans to close its New United Motors Manufacturing Inc. (NUMMI) assembly plant in Fremont, CA, which will mean a loss of 5,400 direct jobs and up to 50,000 jobs at suppliers and other supporting businesses. This would be the biggest factory layoff in California since the beginning of the recession. Toyota is also endangering 5,000 middle class jobs in the carhaul industry. The big difference between GM and Toyota is Toyota will stab you in the back and GM will let you know upfront. Toyota is a very hypocritical and underhanded company. The Japanese government sees to it that no major auto company can compete in Japan. Read below how Japan have rob our industries. It makes for a long read but it might wake up some Americans.
your post if well taken. I no longer trust Toyota and really never seriously wanted to buy one of their products, however, I did look longingly at a 2006 Scion xA and then earlier again at a 2005 Scion tC RS 1.0 in Absolutely Red and 5-speeds. So that counts, right. But is there no Scion's in trouble with SUA here? I haven't seen them thrown in with all the recalls and other problems.
at least 34 people have been killed in sudden acceleration crashes
I'm having a hard following that line of reasoning. 34 people died. Some percentage of those were because they were too stupid to install the floor mats correctly. That leaves may a dozen or two. Why do we have our panties tied up in a knot over maybe 30 deaths when around 35,000 people are killed on out highways each year?
Toyota Lie: No Defect Exists In 3.8 Million Vehicles Initially Recalled
I don't think it's a defect. If it was, there would be a lot more than 34 deaths. It's more like the law of large numbers. Given the number of vehicles sold, it's should not be unexpected that occasionally unintended things occur. Build 10 million of anything, and some, just because of tolerance and other types of product variation, are going to fall at the extremes, have problems, or otherwise fail. I do not call this a defect, despite the posturing by our members of Congress.
Floor mats were only a part of the problem with "stuck pedals". The spontaneous acceleration is an entirely different problem. You could remove the entire floor board and not fix it. Also another problem related to the stuck pedals and that is the main thrust of the recall has to do with the pedal mechanism itself.
The complaint of these owners is that the pedal does not return to the normal position. Toyotas fix is to make the return springs stiffer by installing a shim behind the spring. However, most of the people said that their pedals had started to get harder to push down before they actually started to stick. This resistance is part if not all related to dirt/corrosion from moisture getting into the switch and hinges of the pedal assembly causeing them to bind. Toyota even says their shim is not a total fix for the problem. This is because the pedal assembly will only keep getting worse and will require stronger springs or heaven forbid an expensive redesign and replacement pedal assembly. What does 8.5 million cars times $250 come to: $ 2.125 Billion. This meets with alot of resistance from Toyota. As this is on top of all the losses in repairs and sales losses so far. :lemon:
I'm having a hard following that line of reasoning. 34 people died. Some percentage of those were because they were too stupid to install the floor mats correctly. That leaves may a dozen or two. Why do we have our panties tied up in a knot over maybe 30 deaths when around 35,000 people are killed on out highways each year?
I'd be willing to bet there have been more than 34 suicides due to UAW policies that have resulted in mass layoffs at the US automakers, their dealers, and suppliers.
All I can say is I haven't lost a moments sleep over it. It should present an opportunity for the domestic car companies, but if I owned a Toyota and I wouldn't be concerned. I'd be more annoyed with the recall process than anything else
I actually walked in front of a late model Camry in a parking lot the other day. The odds are higher the old lady behind the wheel would have a stroke and run me over vs UIA.
Several Ford vehicles are high on the list of UA claims too. I don't worry about it in the least. If my Expedition goes haywire and WOT on me, I'll simply put in neutral, pull over, turn the engine off, call a tow truck, and go on with my day.
It's not like other companies have handled these situations much different than Toyota has. Ford kicked, and dragged their feet on the Pinto issues, and I've read as many as 1,800 died in fire related deaths in GM pickups over the side saddle gas tanks and that dragged on for years.
I don't know of any mode of transportation that is without risk. Horseback riding still causes over 70k emergency room visits a year. I wonder how many horses suffer from SUA.
Exactly! Why spend all this energy worrying about something which the odds of occurring are, even if you own a Toyota, minuscule. Given the fact that diseases of the heart claim 1 million lives a year, many of those expressing the most umbrage about Toyota's "defects" are many thousands of times more likely to die from a heart attack than from a stuck accelerator pedal. And that includes the teary eyed woman who testified at the Congressional hearings.
Yeah, the list goes on and on. I'm far more worried about my kids jumping on the neighbor's trampoline vs. riding in their Camry.
Granted, if Toyota is not handling this properly the market will punish them. Anyone who doesn't like Toyota or any other manufacturer, simply don't buy their products. If you own a Toyota product and aren't happy with it, let Toyota know, and don't buy another. It's as simple as that. GM, Ford, and Chrysler should know by now what happens when you don't keep your customers happy. They leave.
Turnabout is fair play. I'm sure Ford and GM will welcome customers back from Toyota. Honda seems to be benefiting too. Looks like the Accord may be the top seller this year.
A motorcyclist can appreciably reduce his/her risk by:
1. Taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic Riders course. 2. Wearing All The Gear All The Time(ATGATT). 3. Parking lot practice(seriously). 4. Assuming that no other drivers can see you- and if they can, they want to kill you. 5. Not riding when you are tired or upset- AKA: your head isn't in the ride 6. Reading David Hough's book Proficient Motorcycling on at least an annual basis.
All of the above -in particular #4- have saved my bacon on at least one occasion.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
And so this discussion will heat up again. Let's please try to get it on topic and civil. Pretty please?
"This year's talks are the first since the U.S. government bailout of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC and may prove less adversarial than others in the mostly contentious labor history between the UAW and the auto makers because of recent restructurings, no-strike clauses at two makers and public antipathy toward the bailout.
The auto makers are still looking to reduce labor costs further. They remain at a significant competitive disadvantage to foreign-owned auto plants in the South even after restructurings put their costs on a par with some U.S. plants owned by Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.
Ford now says its costs for an hour of UAW labor total $58. GM's cost is about the same and Chrysler's is $49. That compares to about $27 an hour at Volkswagen AG's new plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., and Hyundai Motor Co.'s plant in Montgomery, Ala., according to labor experts."
I doubt the UAW has learned a thing through all this down turn. They are getting bonuses equal to as much as $2.50 per hour. They are overpaid by competitive standards by $22-$31 per hour. I think I would just say let's just continue on as we are folks.
I am wondering with Obama handing the UAW a share of GM and Chrysler, how that will play out with the negotiations.
"I doubt the UAW has learned a thing through all this down turn."...don't worry, as soon as they are "asked" to pay an additional nickel toward their health care they will go out on strike...it will be like dealing with a 7 year old on a temper tantrum where the worthless parents don't have the ability to say "no" and mean it...
Nothing has/will change, but at least there are fewer of them to matter...if you are expecting people with the intelligence of Labrador Retrievers to do the intelligent thing, well, let's just sit back and watch...:):):)
I never caught him smoking though, although I suspect he did. Never found his stash, although I did get a bad case of the Munchkins once, after using some oregano! :P
Ran this little Michigan plant for 7 yrs, went through 2 union contract deals and it is all posturing for 6 weeks and nothing gets done until the last day..Take it or leave it!!! If you lose the right to run the operation then you end up like the Big3..The UAW is a collection agency for political donations and we can see the outcome in Michigan..
The transplant Asian assembly plants stayed away from Michigan and by the time our Asian friends got a foothold in the USA with new assembly operations and an established dealer network the Big3 lost sales volume, lacked funds to compete in the marketplace, and the spiral began..
GM committed suicide, Chrysler was always a mess, and Ford, luckily had a management change and mortgaged the farm..
The Big3 gave the farm away to keep the operations running, lost control of the money flow, and you know the rest of the story..
The privately held company that I was employed by was a 3 plant operation, UAW plant in Michigan, UAW plant in Wisconsin, and a large non-union plant in Illinois..All UAW plants were shuttered in the 80s and work transferred to the non-union plant.
All history now...Had a 34yr run in the automobile game, and it was a blast..I can't really see any fun or money left in the present automotive climate..Hey, things are hopping in Florida, however Michigan is underwater and likely to remain there for years to come..
"The transplant Asian assembly plants stayed away from Michigan and by the time our Asian friends got a foothold in the USA with new assembly operations and an established dealer network the Big3 lost sales volume, lacked funds to compete in the marketplace, and the spiral began.."
Don't forget that the imports offered, IMO, cars with far superior quality than we offered...closing the doors on my 4 Hondas gave a solid "thunk" like you were closing a safe...closing a Big 3 door was like playing with a child's rattle, with the reverberations and extra parts bouncing around like a metal ball...just the sound of the doors was enough to make you walk away from an American car because it sounded like a rattle trap, but the imports sounded like you were protected in a collision...
One thing you can bet on...the UAW, in 2011, has yet to really learn what hit them...they think a few more ads about quality will make folks dump their Lexuses and Infinitis and buy Caddys or Town Cars...like Charlie Sheen, they simply don't get it and are incapable of doing so...
If the UAW had a screening test and accepted nobody with an IQ under 100, 80% of what remains of the UAW would be gone tomorrow, utilizing their "skills" at stocking shelves and sweeping floors at WalMart, and surely not getting $35/hour plus benefits...
I always found that jingle rather ironic since drinking one Schaefer was a daunting enough task as it was. Right up there with Rheingold and Schmidt's....
I don't know if Schaefer the dog's case of beer went in any car doors. If they did it would have been Fords at the Mahwah plant. I met said dog in 1966 and last saw him in maybe 1969....
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
The $60,000,000 fund has a new goal, used for unionizing the Asian and European plants..
The "Goon squads" are on the march with their liberal lawyers..
Having run a UAW plant and watched the UAW kill the Big3, this will be fun to watch and I truly hope the union thugs are taken to the cleaners..If they fretted the money on organizing, then they have less funds to give to the Democrats...
...and it was the namesake of the Patriots first stadium - Schaefer Stadium. IIRC, it was one of the first naming rights deals ever done in pro sports.
East Side, West Side And uptown and down Rheingold Extra Dry Beer Is the driest beer in town Friendly freshening Rheingold Always happily dry The clean clear taste that you want in beer Is in Rheingold Extra Dry
From Lexington to Madison On both sides of Park They ask for Rheingold Extra Dry Before and after dark From Coney to Connecticut On Flatbush Avenue From Jersey scenes, way out in Queens They sing as millions do
My beer is Rheingold, the dry beer Ask for Rheingold whenever you buy beer It's not bitter, it's not sweet It's the extra dry treat Won't you try extra dry Rheingold beer!!!
Comments
On a side note, many public employees pension benefits are tied to their highest 3 years average, which is usually their last 3 years working. But, that salary includes OT pay. Recently there was the case of public bus drivers retiring with $100K+ yearly pensions because they racked up a lot of OT in the last couple of years of working. Another scam on the taxpayers, IMM.
That is exactly what drove Vallejo California into bankruptcy. It should be based on contributions throughout the career. Not based on salary or wages. That is why the 401K has taken the place of the defined benefit plans in most of the private sector. We were fortunate enough to have both the last several years I worked. I like a back up plan. With all the Ponzi schemes for retirement, the future for young people is bleak. There best bet is a 401K they have control of. It can be purely savings with whatever interest it draws. Or very aggressive with the risks involved. It puts the future back in the hands of the person.
90??? What, is he your younger brother? :P
I know, that's just wrong. You are a puppy dog compared to him.
I agree wholeheartedly. I think this whole idea of early retirement started in the '80's, when some educated people who made very wise investments were able to retire in their 50's. Now, it seems as if everybody thinks it's their God given right to retire at "55" instead of "65".
My impression has always been that pensions were designed for someone to step out of HS or college (or the military), go to work until you are 62 or thereabouts, and collect your pension and SS until you passed away at around 75 or so.
Nowadays, people don't start at these companies until later in life, think 30 years is the bogey, and then want to bail and collect their pension for 30, 40, or 50 years.
If that isn't bad enough, companies abuse their own pensions by dumping jobs through attrition, dumping "payroll" into the pension fund prematurely, adding even more pressure to the system.
Right now, there are rumors where we work of an offer that's "too good to be true". An offer that would allow my wife to "retire" at 42, after 23 years of service, and collect her pension, plus HC bennies, too. Normally, I would say the hell with it, as another 15 years of work would baloon her 401k, plus the salary, plus having a pension based on 38 yrs service instead of 29 (this rumored offer would add 6 yrs to her service). But with the uncertainty surrounding our company (rumors are flying) makes us think of having her just bail and take a lump sum pension, roll it all into the 401k, and move on. I think she would end up with close to $600,000 including what's already in there. But I also wonder how that would affect my pension years down the road when I retire if too many people go too soon.
Maybe it's time for some pension reforms (????)
I think the Feds have screwed our pensions up enough. ERISA had some good points. It also had some real stumbling blocks. Most deal with limits to pension payouts. I worked with a guy that retired at 52 because working longer was a waste of money. He reached the limits set by ERISA. No matter how much longer he worked he would not get anymore retirement. He was in the Operating Engineers Union. He retired at about $7200 per month. More than he was making on the job.
PS
most of his hours were during the building of the AK pipeline. He had one whole year without a day off. Worked 12-18 hours per day. That was not uncommon during the 1970s pipeline construction period.
Now it's clear they're willing to put longtime employees' jobs at risk as well. Toyota has announced plans to close a 25-year old factory in California by the end of this month.
Laying off 5,000 workers will only be the beginning. The closure will decimate an entire community.
50,000 workers, vendors, and suppliers – and the families who depend on them – could immediately lose their livelihoods.
Tell Toyota: Your workers and customers deserve better. Keep the Fremont plant open!
Toyota was the #1 beneficiary of the "cash for clunkers" program. And they've also benefited from millions of dollars in government-paid training.
But despite strong U.S. sales and all the taxpayer support Toyota has gotten over the years, they're moving California Corolla production to Japan and to a non-union plant in Canada.
If you're outraged that Toyota is benefiting from subsidies and turning around and abandoning an entire community, let their leadership know!
Toyota got its start in America when it opened the Fremont, CA, plant they are about to shut down. Over the years, an entire community was built around the plant.
If Toyota shuts down this factory, it'll be the largest mass layoff in California since the Great Recession began. The chain reaction will impact 200,000 people. School teachers, small business owners, police officers, firefighters, and even local beauticians all depend on the plant to boost tax revenue and consumer spending.
In spite of its recent troubles, Toyota remains an extremely successful company. Toyota can definitely afford to keep the plant open. But we have to act quickly, because the plant is slated to close on March 31.
GM pulled out of the NUMMI venture last year, as part of it's reorganization. GM's holdings in NUMMI were part pf the "old" GM that is being liquidated. If the new GM doesn't see any business advantage to NUMMI, why should Toyota?
You also forgot to mention that Toyota is moving production of the Tacoma to San Antonio, Texas.
Besides, Intel (the world's largest maker of microprocessors) has a place or two in Fremont. I'm sure those highly skilled auto workers will have no problem at all finding a job there.
Dear prime minister,
If you're reading this, you've entered a country different from yours. You're in Germany.
Here, people work until they are 67 and there is no 14th-month salary for civil servants. Here, nobody needs to pay a €1,000 bribe to get a hospital bed in time.
Our petrol stations have cash registers, taxi drivers give receipts and farmers don't swindle EU subsidies with millions of non-existent olive trees.
Germany also has high debts but we can settle them. That's because we get up early and work all day.
We want to be friends with the Greeks. That's why since joining the euro, Germany has given your country €50bn.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/mar/05/bild-open-letter-greece-papandreo- u
>highly skilled auto workers will have no problem at all finding a job there.
Or they can go to work for the SEIU for some of Obama's friends.
http://townhall.com/columnists/MichelleMalkin/2010/03/03/andy_stern_and_barack_o- bama_fiscal_responsibility_fraudsters
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
When corruption takes control of a Union it runs the risk of exposure and demise. The UAW is experiencing just such a demise. Being strong armed for the members is one thing. Being corrupt with the members money is not acceptable.
Seems every appointment to the current administration builds a stronger image of Chicago mafia control.
Note that this is also (AFAIK) Toyota's only unionized plant, since it was a joint venture with GM. So I could argue that it is the GM connection that caused it to be closed, and another blame on GM.
at least 34 people have been killed in sudden acceleration crashes
Toyota has known about the problem for more than five years
Toyota employed former NHTSA regulators to avoid safety recalls
Toyota bragged about saving $100 million in avoiding a full recall because of the sudden acceleration problem
A "win" for Toyota was a loss for safety.
Throughout the sudden acceleration time line, one thing has been consistent: If Toyota has consistently misled the public about the nature and severity of the Toyota sudden acceleration problem:
Toyota Lie: No Defect Exists In 3.8 Million Vehicles Initially Recalled
Do you remember this one? Back in November 2009, Toyota issued a statement to the public declaring that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ("NHTSA") had determined there was no safety defect in the 3.8 million vehicles Toyota had just recalled because they had a safety defect!
NHTSA was so shocked that it issued a public rebuke of Toyota's comments calling them "inaccurate and misleading."
http://kansascity.injuryboard.com/automobile-accidents/toyota-recall-lies-lies-a- nd-more-lies.aspx?googleid=278496
After receiving millions in the taxpayer-funded Cash for Clunkers bailout, Toyota plans to close its New United Motors Manufacturing Inc. (NUMMI) assembly plant in Fremont, CA, which will mean a loss of 5,400 direct jobs and up to 50,000 jobs at suppliers and other supporting businesses. This would be the biggest factory layoff in California since the beginning of the recession. Toyota is also endangering 5,000 middle class jobs in the carhaul industry. The big difference between GM and Toyota is Toyota will stab you in the back and GM will let you know upfront. Toyota is a very hypocritical and underhanded company. The Japanese government sees to it that no major auto company can compete in Japan. Read below how Japan have rob our industries. It makes for a long read but it might wake up some Americans.
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I'm having a hard following that line of reasoning. 34 people died. Some percentage of those were because they were too stupid to install the floor mats correctly. That leaves may a dozen or two. Why do we have our panties tied up in a knot over maybe 30 deaths when around 35,000 people are killed on out highways each year?
Toyota Lie: No Defect Exists In 3.8 Million Vehicles Initially Recalled
I don't think it's a defect. If it was, there would be a lot more than 34 deaths. It's more like the law of large numbers. Given the number of vehicles sold, it's should not be unexpected that occasionally unintended things occur. Build 10 million of anything, and some, just because of tolerance and other types of product variation, are going to fall at the extremes, have problems, or otherwise fail. I do not call this a defect, despite the posturing by our members of Congress.
The complaint of these owners is that the pedal does not return to the normal position. Toyotas fix is to make the return springs stiffer by installing a shim behind the spring. However, most of the people said that their pedals had started to get harder to push down before they actually started to stick. This resistance is part if not all related to dirt/corrosion from moisture getting into the switch and hinges of the pedal assembly causeing them to bind. Toyota even says their shim is not a total fix for the problem. This is because the pedal assembly will only keep getting worse and will require stronger springs or heaven forbid an expensive redesign and replacement pedal assembly. What does 8.5 million cars times $250 come to:
$ 2.125 Billion. This meets with alot of resistance from Toyota. As this is on top of all the losses in repairs and sales losses so far. :lemon:
I'd be willing to bet there have been more than 34 suicides due to UAW policies that have resulted in mass layoffs at the US automakers, their dealers, and suppliers.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
I actually walked in front of a late model Camry in a parking lot the other day. The odds are higher the old lady behind the wheel would have a stroke and run me over vs UIA.
Several Ford vehicles are high on the list of UA claims too. I don't worry about it in the least. If my Expedition goes haywire and WOT on me, I'll simply put in neutral, pull over, turn the engine off, call a tow truck, and go on with my day.
It's not like other companies have handled these situations much different than Toyota has. Ford kicked, and dragged their feet on the Pinto issues, and I've read as many as 1,800 died in fire related deaths in GM pickups over the side saddle gas tanks and that dragged on for years.
I don't know of any mode of transportation that is without risk. Horseback riding still causes over 70k emergency room visits a year. I wonder how many horses suffer from SUA.
Regards,
OW
Granted, if Toyota is not handling this properly the market will punish them. Anyone who doesn't like Toyota or any other manufacturer, simply don't buy their products. If you own a Toyota product and aren't happy with it, let Toyota know, and don't buy another. It's as simple as that. GM, Ford, and Chrysler should know by now what happens when you don't keep your customers happy. They leave.
Turnabout is fair play. I'm sure Ford and GM will welcome customers back from Toyota. Honda seems to be benefiting too. Looks like the Accord may be the top seller this year.
1. Taking the Motorcycle Safety Foundation Basic Riders course.
2. Wearing All The Gear All The Time(ATGATT).
3. Parking lot practice(seriously).
4. Assuming that no other drivers can see you- and if they can, they want to kill you.
5. Not riding when you are tired or upset- AKA: your head isn't in the ride
6. Reading David Hough's book Proficient Motorcycling on at least an annual basis.
All of the above -in particular #4- have saved my bacon on at least one occasion.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
7. Go to church regularly
"This year's talks are the first since the U.S. government bailout of General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC and may prove less adversarial than others in the mostly contentious labor history between the UAW and the auto makers because of recent restructurings, no-strike clauses at two makers and public antipathy toward the bailout.
The auto makers are still looking to reduce labor costs further. They remain at a significant competitive disadvantage to foreign-owned auto plants in the South even after restructurings put their costs on a par with some U.S. plants owned by Toyota Motor Corp. and Honda Motor Co.
Ford now says its costs for an hour of UAW labor total $58. GM's cost is about the same and Chrysler's is $49. That compares to about $27 an hour at Volkswagen AG's new plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., and Hyundai Motor Co.'s plant in Montgomery, Ala., according to labor experts."
For UAW, Jobs Trump Pay (Wall St. Journal).
I am wondering with Obama handing the UAW a share of GM and Chrysler, how that will play out with the negotiations.
Nothing has/will change, but at least there are fewer of them to matter...if you are expecting people with the intelligence of Labrador Retrievers to do the intelligent thing, well, let's just sit back and watch...:):):)
You've just insulted my dog... :P
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Get crackin' and take it back, man! Waaaaaaa!! Waaaa!!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I don't know about that. My dog was dumb enough to get caught on camera while drinking.
I never caught him smoking though, although I suspect he did. Never found his stash, although I did get a bad case of the Munchkins once, after using some oregano! :P
Regards,
OW
The transplant Asian assembly plants stayed away from Michigan and by the time our Asian friends got a foothold in the USA with new assembly operations and an established dealer network the Big3 lost sales volume, lacked funds to compete in the marketplace, and the spiral began..
GM committed suicide, Chrysler was always a mess, and Ford, luckily had a management change and mortgaged the farm..
The Big3 gave the farm away to keep the operations running, lost control of the money flow, and you know the rest of the story..
The privately held company that I was employed by was a 3 plant operation, UAW plant in Michigan, UAW plant in Wisconsin, and a large non-union plant in Illinois..All UAW plants were shuttered in the 80s and work transferred to the non-union plant.
All history now...Had a 34yr run in the automobile game, and it was a blast..I can't really see any fun or money left in the present automotive climate..Hey, things are hopping in Florida, however Michigan is underwater and likely to remain there for years to come..
Don't forget that the imports offered, IMO, cars with far superior quality than we offered...closing the doors on my 4 Hondas gave a solid "thunk" like you were closing a safe...closing a Big 3 door was like playing with a child's rattle, with the reverberations and extra parts bouncing around like a metal ball...just the sound of the doors was enough to make you walk away from an American car because it sounded like a rattle trap, but the imports sounded like you were protected in a collision...
One thing you can bet on...the UAW, in 2011, has yet to really learn what hit them...they think a few more ads about quality will make folks dump their Lexuses and Infinitis and buy Caddys or Town Cars...like Charlie Sheen, they simply don't get it and are incapable of doing so...
If the UAW had a screening test and accepted nobody with an IQ under 100, 80% of what remains of the UAW would be gone tomorrow, utilizing their "skills" at stocking shelves and sweeping floors at WalMart, and surely not getting $35/hour plus benefits...
Regards,
OW
I remember the old jingle, "Schaefer is the one beer to have when you're having more than one!"
Regards,
OW
My beer is Reingold, the dry beer,
Ask for Reingold whenever you buy beer,
(forgot this line)
Won't you try extra dry Reingold beer!!!
I always found that jingle rather ironic since drinking one Schaefer was a daunting enough task as it was. Right up there with Rheingold and Schmidt's....
I don't know if Schaefer the dog's case of beer went in any car doors. If they did it would have been Fords at the Mahwah plant. I met said dog in 1966 and last saw him in maybe 1969....
The "Goon squads" are on the march with their liberal lawyers..
Having run a UAW plant and watched the UAW kill the Big3, this will be fun to watch and I truly hope the union thugs are taken to the cleaners..If they fretted the money on organizing, then they have less funds to give to the Democrats...
East Side, West Side
And uptown and down
Rheingold Extra Dry Beer
Is the driest beer in town
Friendly freshening Rheingold
Always happily dry
The clean clear taste that you want in beer
Is in Rheingold Extra Dry
From Lexington to Madison
On both sides of Park
They ask for Rheingold Extra Dry
Before and after dark
From Coney to Connecticut
On Flatbush Avenue
From Jersey scenes, way out in Queens
They sing as millions do
My beer is Rheingold, the dry beer
Ask for Rheingold whenever you buy beer
It's not bitter, it's not sweet
It's the extra dry treat
Won't you try extra dry Rheingold beer!!!