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What does Fiskar manufacture in Delaware? Last Fiskar tools I looked at were all made in China. I fortunately got the last of the USA made ones I needed.
Ah, you mean Fiskers motors. That is a startup on our tax dollars.
Fisker Automotive has raised more than $500 million in private equity and, in September 2009, was approved for a $529 million government loan from the United States Department of Energy's Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing loan program initiated by Congress during the Bush Administration in 2007.
Looks like the UAW may have a wait for those jobs. So far they are building them in Finland.
Fisker's outsourcing methods have allowed the company in a 2–3 year period of development instead of the typical 5 years and at a cost of $333 million instead of $1 billion.[6]
However a requirement of the government loan is that some of the money be spent building or renovating a manufacturing facility in the US, in order to ensure manufacturing jobs are not shipped overseas. Fisker fulfilled its obligation by purchasing GM's former Wilmington Assembly plant in Delaware for $20 million, and plans to start production of its next generation Electric Vehicles with extended range there in late 2012. The company expects to create more than 2,000 jobs there. Building a new plant would have cost well over $1B.
So they took our $529 million and spent $20 million on an old GM factory in Delaware with the understanding that someday they will hire UAW workers to build the next generation Fisker car. My guess is they file for bankruptcy after our money is gone. Another Solyndra in the making. I cannot find any pricing on the Karma. My guess well over $100k.
That is the reason the foreign car companies come in and build new state of the art factories in RTW states. So they don't have to hassle with UAW featherbedders. Same as Ford is doing all over the world with new factories. GM would rather beat their heads against a wall trying to please that bunch of overpaid babies in Michigan especially. The smart states will pass RTW laws and neuter the Unions. If they are doing a good job people will join voluntarily. If they are killing the goose laying the golden eggs the smart employees will opt out of the union.
Go Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Georgia!
Regards,
OW
"The report said the UAW has for some years been relying on savings to fund its ongoing operations and has since 2007 taken large drawdowns from its assets to finance ongoing operational and organizing efforts.
“Two years after the wrenching restructuring of the U.S. auto industry and the bankruptcies that remade General Motors and Chrysler, the UAW is facing its own financial reckoning,” the Reuters report begins."
Report Exposes Shaky UAW Finances (AutoObserver)
Be kind of ironic if they wind up "decertifying" themselves.
Which is true and which I believe is the way that transplants will always do it. But my response was in regards to another auto company - let's say Honda - taking over one of the current GM plants. You can bet they'd have to deal with the UAW IF it were to happen.
I'm not anti-union by any means but they have to understand what does and doesn't work. The UAW doesn't understand that. They don't realize the damage they have done and don't realize they are trying to do the same thing again.
Of course the move to the South is a pattern that has been going on a long time and doesn't have a happy ending. The factory in my hometown was a hard rubber plant. They made combs, bowling balls, battery casings and such. First they moved South for better profitability. Then they moved the factory to Taiwan. Eventually it became a wholly Asian operation. In search of greater profits the whole company became Asian.
That is the sad reality I have tried to convey to our friend Rocky. When you have been told all your life that a person on the line at an auto factory should be earning upper middle class wages and benefits, it is hard to accept the reality when it strikes home. Truth is they were always paid more than other factory workers. It really struck me with that interview of a forklift operator at Delphi filing bankruptcy when they cut out his overtime. This blows my mind every time I read it.
DELPHI FORKLIFT OPERATORS MAKE $103,000/year
This Detroit News story is shocking. Apparently, a large number of laid-off autoworkers are going BANKRUPT. BANKRUPT on salaries that are easily in the 80-90th percentile (they make more money than 80-90% of full-time year round workers in the United States).
The 80th percentile for full-time, year-round workers in the United States was $48,131/year in 2004 (the 90th percentile was $68,510/year. Both figures are from the National Bureau of Labor Statistics' 2004 Labor Compensation Survey. Median salary was $35,516/year).
Anyway, THIS FORKLIFT OPERATOR IS NOW IN BANKRUPTCY (WITH $469,000 IN DEBT) AFTER HE WAS UNABLE TO MAKE PAYMENTS ON VARIOUS THINGS WHEN HIS SALARY FELL FROM $103,000/year to $87,000/year.
$103,000/year. TO DRIVE A FORKLIFT.
Let me repeat that.
$103,000/year.
TO. DRIVE. A. FORK. LIFT.
"More UAW workers bankrupt
Autoworkers who used to thrive on overtime now find it tough to keep up their lifestyles."
If UAW workers were being paid what they are worth GM and C would not have gone bankrupt. The UAW workers would not have gone bankrupt. The blame lies fully at the feet of GM management and the UAW leaders. GM still owes US a lot of money. So handing out bonuses is premature. And the stock we did get as partial repayment is worth about half of what GM claims.
I was selling a guitar to the brother of a girl in my class. He's telling me how someone (I forget what relative bit some relative) got him set up at the Ford plant in Mahwah with a summer job. He was getting regular UAW wages for a summer job that consisted of (wait for it...) driving the cars off the assembly line! And getting overtime! Oy!
Here's a surprise - the plant closed down in the 80s.
Frankly I never thought about it back then. I am now 68. I first paid attention in 1998 when the UAW went on Strike. I had just hit a big buck in Sun Valley ID and needed a new vehicle to get home. I was in luck as the local dealer had just gotten his last shipment of Suburbans when the strike started. When I did a little research I could not believe the UAW. GM was already losing market share by the boatloads to the Asians. And not profitable by any real honest accounting method. And the UAW walks out of a contract that was better than any of the competition. I was a solid Teamster and I became an avid anti UAW person. That 1998 strike was pure idiocy and totally uncalled for. Just a show of their goon mentality. They were fighting against losing jobs. Jobs they ran off with pay way above the competition. The UAW has no concept of supply and demand.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/business/jan-june98/gm_6-19.html
Gary,
You're missing the point. He's having trouble getting by on $87,000 a year. That's in this part of the country--not NYC. I think I could get by if our income were trimmed to $87,000. Why can't he. There's more to this story.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I recall listening to a radio talk show a few short years ago about the unions. They had their worker's pension funds funded at, e.g., 45%. But the retirement fund for the union management types was at 105% funding.
I don't think they're going to get left out on the short end of any stick. Then they say they're always standing up for the workers!!! ROFLAMO
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't know about the International Teamsters Pension fund. I know the Alaska Teamsters Pension is one big pot. The leaders and employees of the Union get their retirement from the same pool of money I get mine from. That makes it a much more personal thing when investing that money. The UAW workers have to depend on the automakers integrity which we know is not exemplary.
Workers have always banded together to achieve common goals. Nothing unusual or inherently wrong with that.
Kind of like other groups of people who have a common purpose, whether it's to get better working conditions or to worship alike or to elect like-minded people to office.
Shoot, total strangers get together on internet forums and join together to bash GM, Toyota and the UAW. :-)
Ain't it grand?
Cannon is correct in stating that Unions are many times detrimental to projects. They have done their fair share to push companies off shore to get better production. Not always about money.
Time to move to Idaho. Not even sure if they had them, but they sure didn't have any salary negotiating power if they did.
Particularly if they are 2nd and 3rd rate and cost MORE than the competition BEFORE incentives, after which devalue the product even further!
I see some improvement but in the NEW ECONOMY, the NEW GM UAW contract could reduce profits just like the Old GM.
Let's see if Chrysler and Ford really lead the change the UAW isn't even ready for....more loss of membership.
BTW, please let us know the instant the UAW recruits one of those non-union plants in the NEW USA Auto Industry.
And, as always....GO KIA!!! :P
Regards,
OW
Try it before you can understand...or not. Then, just keep wondering...
That would really balance you out! Remember, I've experienced both. So far, Kia wins hands down!
Regards,
OW
I don't see where a Canadian built vehicle is any more helping US than one built in Mexico. You can look for your vehicle on here. Ford, Toyota and Chrysler lead the pack on US content. GM is down the list a ways even now in 2011.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/AALA/AALA2011_Percent.pdf
http://www.nhtsa.gov/Vehicle+Safety/Part+583+American+Automobile+Labeling+Act+%2- 8AALA%29+Reports
I've worked in strong union and weak union (which is probably similar to non union) environments. The strong union locations were consistently less desriable work environments and the operations were usually less efficient and more screwed up. You can't fight all the time and not expect detrimental results. It wears everyone down and destroys attitude. It's a morale killer. Also those locations have idiots who think screwing the manager or company is a good thing - us versus them, even though "them" provides the salary and benefits which are lost if it goes away. Trust me, this is true whether you are dealing with professional unions like pilots or unskilled worker union locals.
If unions were positive, I'd expect that many operations in right to work states would be unionized - but the opposite is true. I think most people are intuitively smart about work things and paying dues supporting over paid union leaders for the privilege of working in an antagonistic and loser wins environment, which often devolves into a uncompetitive business unit more likely to be shut down, is not a thinking person's cup of tea. If you've worked in a union environment, ever notice how the stewards are usually some of the crappiest workers?
Now there are loser managers and executives too. But that is another issue dealing with ineffective board of directors in corprate America for whom politicians refuse to pass laws requring stronger acountability. I don't suppose many are healthy campaign contributors?
Buying a Canadian-built car is not the same as buying an American-built car; however, the Big Three building in Canada is a decades-old thing. I plainly remember '73 Monte Carlos coming into my hometown Chevy dealer from Oshawa, ON.
First Mexican-built autos I saw at GM dealers didn't happen 'til after NAFTA passed.
The difference is, management is milking the system big-time by building in Mexico, which is basically a third-world country. That's as greedy, IMHO, as anything the UAW might have done. Remember, people are dying trying to get from Mexico into the U.S. Canadians aren't.
It's a big-picture thing.
And yeah, I'm still in Michigan.
That brought an old story to mind. I'm a public employee with a lousy union now and a better one previously. I was actually on the executive board of the local of the old one for a few years and some tales in here have merit while some are off base.
Anyway - back to the story. One of the biggest places we represented was Blue Cross Blue Shield of NJ. In contract negotiations management insisted on ending separate sick, vacation and personal days with a block of PTO (paid time off) days. Any time management brings this in the purpose is to reduce the number of such days but such is life. Management wouldn't budge and contrary to what many believe they frequently can ram something like this through and they did.
Fast forward a year or two into the contract. They have this long time malingerer that they finally decide to come down on. This woman was notorious for calling out sick on Mondays and Fridays and such and this could be documented pretty well. They nailed her for sick time abuse.
As noted above, the union is obligated to represent her and to grieve the action. They look and look and can see she's obviously guilty as charged but are obligated to present a defense. They finally arrived at the fact that sick days did not exist in the contract and therefore it was impossible to abuse them. They won the case.
That does explain why we may be on opposite sides from time to time. I would defend our Union with all its flaws also. I was on the E'Board and a shop steward for many years. Most of the cases I was involved with people being considered for firing, would have been fired if I was given the say. in the late 1970s we had a guy working at the RCA Alascom toll center in Anchorage, that was living in his motorhome on the back lot of the toll center. He was dealing drugs and carried a 9mm to work. They did not fire him until he was caught robbing a bank using the company van. When it all came out he was wanted for numerous felonies in San Francisco. Management was aware but inept to bring charges for his criminal behavior.
The year I retired the company was pushing through PTO on our Teamster contract. The members lost a lot of days in that contract. Glad I retired when I did. There is no doubt our standard of living is going to be impacted by what is happening in the USA and the World. I would say the UAW will not see the reality of it until it is too late for them. Corporate America has woven a very tight net around the workers. And both political parties are beholden to corporate America.
I think if you look carefully enough ta the overall labor picture you'll see the same thing going on as our national political parties - both sides are more interested in winning than they are in what is best for all concerned. We have to pull ourselves out of that mindset. It's nothing but destructive.
I wonder what the guy's hourly rate was, and how many hours he was pulling per week? For instance, if he was paid $28 per hour, and got 1.5x for anything over 40 hours per week, theoretically he would only have to work around 60.5 hours per week to make $103,000 per year.
In the case of the Delphi fork lift operator. It was more the fact that a job as menial as that could work up to $28 was astounding. I started at the phone company in the mailroom and went to the warehouse after about 6 months. I got twice as much money as a fork lift operator as I did driving around delivering Company mail I was in hog heaven. Then after a year I got what I wanted working in the telephone Central Office and that was double what I got as a fork lift operator. In the UAW they are bred with that entitlement mentality. If you are a warm human being with a broom you deserve as much as everyone else. I hear that all the time from UAW die hards. Somehow they believe they are entitled to a good living wage no matter what their skill level is. It does not matter if the company is bankrupt. You could see it as recently as 2007 when GM lost something like $40 billion and the UAW went on strike against them. The lack of common sense within the ranks of the UAW is mind boggling. With millions in the street looking for a job you don't go on strike over some idiotic work rule.
I do think it's sad though, that taking a pay cut from $103K to $87K is enough to throw you into bankruptcy. It's obvious the guy was over-extended on bills and credit, living way beyond his means, and expecting the overtime would last forever.
I'd think, though, that he could have tried getting a part time job, getting the wife to work (I have a gut feeling she was sitting on her butt eating bon-bons and watching Oprah and Dr. Phil all day long.) True, it was a ~$16,000 paycut, but at that income level, I'm sure that federal/state tax and SS would take 40-45% of that amount. So effectively, he's declaring bankruptcy over perhaps a $10K cut in annual takehome pay.
I wonder if some BK attorney talked him into it?
Forget about GM China, Ford Mexico. Not even an issue.
At the end of the day, the UAW attempt to bring the southern plants into the UAW is akin to forcing even more jobs off shore!!
Are pro=-Labor blind???? You can not preclude the global forces in any industry today. WAKE UP DUDES! It's A Small Word, After All!
Regards,
OW
I was selling a guitar to the brother of a girl in my class. He's telling me how someone (I forget what relative bit some relative) got him set up at the Ford plant in Mahwah with a summer job. He was getting regular UAW wages for a summer job that consisted of (wait for it...) driving the cars off the assembly line! And getting overtime! Oy!"
I am waiting for some UAW rah-rah to post about how "skilled" the job was to drive cars off the assembly line... :confuse: :shades:
" If you are a warm human being with a broom you deserve as much as everyone else. I hear that all the time from UAW die hards. Somehow they believe they are entitled to a good living wage no matter what their skill level is. It does not matter if the company is bankrupt. You could see it as recently as 2007 when GM lost something like $40 billion and the UAW went on strike against them. The lack of common sense within the ranks of the UAW is mind boggling..."
You would really be amazed at their low level of ANY kind of intelligence if you met hundreds of them, as I did...they are like children following the pied piper or lemmings jumping off the cliff...to call them intelligent beings with skills is like calling astrology a science...
Well, some of them were stick shifts back then. He should get a bonus rate for that.....
I hope Roger Smith is there with him! :mad: