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Comments
It's only fair. Each of these groups -- former workers with enviable pensions, current employees who refused to concede enough job or pay cuts, and banks that kept lending under the assumption that Tokyo would cover them -- has played a role in kicking JAL's structural problems down the road.
May need to be a subscriber to read this:
JAL files bankruptcy
The UAW views the increase for the salaried workers as a violation of its labor contract, one UAW official told the Free Press. He wanted to remain anonymous because he is not authorized by the union to speak about the issue."
Return Of The Squeaky Wheels (Detroit News via AlternateRoute)
Always expect the worse, then one won't be surprised by how low they go.
The real problem is with GM bankruptcy the UAW was protected politically. It's going to further hurt the industrial base in this country because they weren't cut loose with a proper bankruptcy and were protected by Obama.
I feel bad for the newer employed UAW workers who have a low pay scale and they had a lower-than-needed new scale to maintain the overpaid wages for the high seniority UAW workers. IF the high seniority workers had taken a proper cut in pay, the newer workers wouldn't be so low.---And the newer workers get the same flack as the older, high seniority workers deserve, but the new guys don't deserve it.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Regards,
OW
And the salaried workers getting a raise. You wonder if their package is close to the guys whining in the UAW. I don't think Ford can go forward in the USA with the UAW. They just are not going to face reality. That means more plants in Mexico and So America.
I can only image the frustration they feel at being lambasted by folks and reporters as overpaid at $80 per hour like the highly-paid seniority employees while they're actually make $12.35 plus some benefits.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It really takes a lot of chutzpah for the UAW to even broach this issue, IMM. For years the non-represented, white collar workers have had their benefits slashed, wages cut, workforce reduced and generally took it on the chin while the UAW workers continued along as if nothing was happening. UAW's response was "too bad, they should have been represented". Now the shoe is on the other foot, and the UAW is crying foul. It takes a big set to do that.
redundantcrude.Amen. So much for the UAW caring about all the workers, huh? They only care about themselves. I've said before that the UAW is not 100% responsible. Certainly management deserves its share of blame.
However, recently it's been the UAW that's 100% responsible. Mgmt seems (at last) to be getting it. Hope the UAW doesn't ruin it for everybody else by being selfish and shortsighted.
With Mually as bright as he appears to be, you just know he must have a contingency plan. His competitors (Toy, Hon, Hyu, etc.) have an advantage in non-union labor. If the UAW screws Ford then they need to be prepared to move more production out of the country, or go BK and void the contracts. Heck, Boeing just started building a second 787 plant in SC to get into a non-union location.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Job Losses from Great Recession About to Get Worse
The biggest mistake of the Dems was finally becoming organized enough to take control at a time when the excesses of neoconservative economics were finally being felt, and being forced to be corrected. Nobody can fix this problem, it is terminal.
It was also the largest growth period for the UAW. Will history repeat itself? Is a decade long depression worth it?
Many of those WW2 era dems went on to become neocons. Now they control one party. RINOs.
This is the downhill pendulum swing for unions in general....I have to believe public sector unions are next, as the average private sector worker continues to receive less and less. However, pendulums always swing the other direction.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f1d3f68/1746#MSG1746
As part of its plan to produce the Chevy Volt and other future electric vehicles, GM has opened new plants and facilities to produce its own electric-vehicle parts and batteries. Absent from these new facilities? The United Auto Workers union.
GM should be able to reduce its costs and help return to profitability
Regards,
OW
Now all they need is a chassis plant in, say Spartanburg SC. Maybe halfway between the BMW plant and the proposed Boeing plant.
One can only hope!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But now the conservatives are back in the driver's seat, and heading us back toward feudalism and serfdom (and possibly another Great Depression).
http://www.uaw.org/atissue/atstory.cfm?atId=78
Workers at the 1,300-acre western Pennsylvania plant have had an independent union since 1933. They voted to join the UAW in 2003. According to the above scenario, Honda and Toyota would soon pull out and find a new non-UAW supplier, right?
Honda, Toyota and others stayed because they know Local 3303 members at AK Steel are world-class workers making the world-class steel they need.
In fact, so good of a job that AK Steel was the only steel company in the world to receive one of Toyota Motor Corp.’s four inaugural Regional Contribution Awards. The criteria for a supplier to be considered for the award include having previously received Toyota’s Superior performance award for a minimum of three years.
Toyota Motor Manufacturing North America Inc. (TMMNA) has also recognized the quality work that the 1,266 UAW-represented Butler workers perform, including winning awards in 11 consecutive years and the Superior award in seven consecutive years.
AK Steel supplies flat-rolled steels used in every Toyota vehicle manufactured in North America. Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda and Toyota automakers’ representatives are often onsite to ensure their exacting standards are being met.
http://www.uaw.org/solidarity/10/0110/feature02.php
On which planet?
PS
I have never been against labor unions that provide workers that make their bosses money. My gripe was with the UAW trashing the US Domestic auto industry with crazy 2000 page contracts cram packed with crazy work rules. Rules that keep the auto makers from being competitive.
Planet Earth, back in 2004 (read the article). Thats when the UAW article was warning of the status quo. Its great to go back and look at what was said and what it is.
-Rocky
You do what you have to do. Throwing in family responsibilities makes it even worse.
Agreed.
However, I don't feel bad that they get to retire with a very nice pension after "only" 30 years. That's where they lost me.
I wish I was able to retire after 30 years *and* with a pension.
I wish I was able to retire after 30 years *and* with a pension.
Yeah, same here. But in this age, even a pension isn't a guarantee anymore. Couldn't the pension fund go bust if it's managed poorly? And if the gov't ends up covering for it, I think it's only pennies on the dollar.
Yeah, it depends on your age and years served at time of the fund going bust I believe.
I think the idea that we can afford to have people retire at 50 years old and possibly live to 100 has got to change. It's just to expensive. SS and the pension system isn't designed for that and it will bankrupt us all if it doesn't change. My great-grandma recently passed away at age 107. That is becoming more common every year.
Starting to get crowded in 100-year-olds' club
July 2009
The number of centenarians already has jumped from an estimated few thousand in 1950 to more than 340,000 worldwide today, with the highest concentrations in the U.S. and Japan, according to the latest Census Bureau figures. Their numbers are projected to grow at more than 20 times the rates of the total population by 2050, making them the fastest growing age segment.
Well that can't be right! If you believe the idiots in the media and in Washington we're not not living as long as everyone else.
My grandpa wasn't in the UAW, but he was a union worker in a steel mill for 43 years, he chain smoked until his early 70's, ate steak and potatoes nearly every day, and still made it to 88.
Here I found this from UAW local 1005. I think it's from 2009
Some Facts on all UAW Retirees:
• The UAW has 580,000 retirees of which 70% pay the $2.00 per month voluntary dues
• 57 retirees over 100 years old
• 4,532 retirees over 90 years old
• 31,524 retirees over 80 years old
• 72,112 retirees over 70 years old
• 110, 003 retirees over 60 years old
• 52,055 retirees over 50 years old
• 2,536 retirees over 40 years old
• 13 retirees over 30 years old
• 13 retirees over 30 years old
How the heck do you get to retire at age 30 (or younger) or 40??? Maybe they meant disability?
In most companies you need at least 10 years service ( some are as low as 5 years ) to qualify for pension credits. A person as young as 23 years of age could qualify for a pension. However, wether they can actually draw that pension before they reach Social Security age is defined in each companies contract or plant closing agreement. Most companies legally prevent you from actually drawing on your pension until you meet the requirements. Mind you that 5 years of service will get you almost no pension, you will still be able to file for it when you reach Social Security age.
Therefore, if a pension plan participant is qualified for a pension, the companies have to show that liability on their books for financial accountability.
But, the article you quoted said "retirees", which I took to mean people drawing a pension, not just pension eligible.
That's a pretty sweet deal - probably a rarity in today's world. Heck I reached that point 8 years ago and was ineligible for any type of pension if I retired/quit. Even now if I retire, my benefits are reduced, though not by a lot.
Permanent disability would be my guess, too. Either that, or these lucky 13 have relatives in high places that can pull some strings.
With the UAW, I wonder if the pension benefit goes up if you put in more than 30 years? Seems like most of these stories I read have members looking forward to that 30 year mark. But if you stayed in for, say, 40 years, would there be a bigger benefit I wonder? Other than whatever rise comes from inflation?