I know most of what you two are talking about is foreign to a UAW member that does not give the company ONE SECOND more than they get paid for. Those in mid level management jobs are generally over worked and under paid. At least that was how it looked from down below them over 46 years. I refused all offers to go up the ladder. I knew my grandfather died from a heart attack at 56 years of age. He was a foundry foreman in Erie PA. Would go in while on vacation to make sure all was going well. I never envied those above me. And I am probably retired doing better than most managers that were in my field. AT&T pension plan was not much to brag about. I worked with a guy that made it to second level at AT&T. Had 16 years with them when he took a management job in Alaska. He was squeezed out and we ended up with him in craft. When he turned 65 he started getting a pension check for those 16 years service. $207 per month. After 20 years in the Teamsters he gets $2300 per month. I got NOTHING for my 9 years with Bell.
On the tech side. I still have a Win7 Pro machine that I use strictly for A/V editing. I still cannot figure out how to access all the files from the network. They have to be in Public. I don't like the duplication of file locations. You are right about Vista and ME both a rip-off. I started with Win2.0 when the company forced us to take all their records off our personal Atari 1040 ST machines. :shades:
The tech that came on board late in life, did not retire until he was 76. He came out of the Korean war and went right to work for AT&T. He finally hung it up in 2010. 56 years and about $2500 per month retirement. I would bet a UAW worker with that many years would get a heck of a lot more. Plus a HC plan. Our Teamster retirement does not include any HC.
I still cannot figure out how to access all the files from the network. They have to be in Public.
Using the public folder is the easiest way, but you you can give specific folder sharing permissions so a particular folder can be shared, though the permissions etc can be a PITA. If all computers on the network are Windows 7,homegroup works pretty well.
But you can definitely share files and folders w/o using the public folder. Also, an app like dropbox works great for sharing files. It's free for 2gb of storage. It works great to share across multiple platforms. Granted security is always an issue..
andre: "There's no way in hell I want to be that connected to work. When I leave the office, work disappears as far as I'm concerned"...I agree in principle, but I now forward my office phone (dial 72#...then the number you forward to, and wait for the other end to be picked up to complete the connection...back at the office, dial 73# to disconnect call forwarding...works on any phone that has call forwarding or complete choice) and I answer my calls from about 8 am to 8-9 pm, then I put the cell phone on silent...helps stay in touch with clients with questions or new clients who want appts who call after hours...
diesel: " I would like to see you check emails and open excel files from a black berry while driving 70 MPH down the interstate."...that's nothing...most folks here in GA drive the interstate at 70, put on makeup with one hand, eat a Big Mac with the other, reach over for the occasional French Fry, and text with the "third" hand...please don't ask me which hand they steer with... :confuse: :confuse:
diesel: " I would like to see you check emails and open excel files from a black berry while driving 70 MPH down the interstate."...that's nothing...most folks here in GA drive the interstate at 70, put on makeup with one hand, eat a Big Mac with the other, reach over for the occasional French Fry, and text with the "third" hand...please don't ask me which hand they steer with... :confuse: :confuse:
...that's nothing...most folks here in GA drive the interstate at 70, put on makeup with one hand, eat a Big Mac with the other, reach over for the occasional French Fry, and text with the "third" hand...please don't ask me which hand they steer with..
In complete seriousness, I've been known in past years to be on the cell phone while driving stick, and eating fast food while driving stick -- yet never an accident in 40 years of driving... I am very careful. In my experience, starting to read texts or reply (using a keyboard as opposed to a voice) is a whole new level of distraction and danger vs. those other things...
Heck, where you live, talking on the phone while driving is encouraged, highway signs ask people to do it. Crazy.
My phone is turned off at night and usually isn't answered at home unless I want to talk to who is on the other side. Anything more would require a raise and a promotion.
I have 7 on a personal laptop, it's fine. I have XP on a netbook (which has as much RAM as my work desktop, uugh), no problems. Had a Vista laptop once, it died due to a known HP motherboard/video card defect, I was more than happy to have to shop for a new one.
I've used just about every version of Windows going back to 3.0 (IIRC). Windows ME really sucked, and Vista is nearly as bad.
Looking back, I agree. Currently running XP Pro on both my home machine and at work. Though I am in the process to moving everything at home over to a Mac Mini handed down from my son.
Oh, and BTW. I have a set of DOS 3.1 discs if you really want something simple :P .
I ended up selling my 2 year old loaded HP for $100 for parts. Never heard of a recall. Never again, replaced it with a Toshiba, nearly 2 and a half years later, flawless.
I didn't see any picketers at the MB and BMW factories in AL and SC either. They looked like world class facilities inside, too.
tlong: "In complete seriousness, I've been known in past years to be on the cell phone while driving stick, and eating fast food while driving stick"...I, too have not had any accidents in 40 years, but you must be a better person than me if you can do that with a stick shift...
fintail: "My phone is turned off at night and usually isn't answered at home unless I want to talk to who is on the other side"...I do turn mine to silent after 8-9 pm, and charge it overnight...but I do answer it after 5 pm...being self employed, it might be a paying client that wants to screw the credit cards file bankruptcy and needs a good lawyer, and I think I know one... :shades:
I knew from the start that ME was crap - anything "millenium edition" can't be good. Funny that bad stuff can even come from non-union workers :shades:
Why would MS workers want a Union when the average salary is way above the national average. And the best HC plan in America.
The software king offers what may be the most generous health-insurance plan in America. The premium is zero, with no deductible. And it's the first U.S. corporation to pay for therapy for dependents who are autistic.
Notice the top paid person at Microsoft only made 11 times the average salary. I watched a show where a guy working in the cafeteria made enough on his MSFT stock to quit and open his own restaurant.
Who said they wanted a union? I only said that crap can come from others too.
Treating employees well and giving them maybe more than you absolutely have to? Very anti-capitalist in a way, at least the brand of "capitalism" some desire here.
Look how the stock has performed in the past 10-12 years - no fortunes being made lately. Getting in during the mid-late 80s is where the real fortunes were made.
gagrice: "Notice the top paid person at Microsoft only made 11 times the average salary. I watched a show where a guy working in the cafeteria made enough on his MSFT stock to quit and open his own restaurant."...maybe that is how the ordinary working guy can make it in America...plus, aren't there numerous stories of how folks invested in Walmart in the beginning, putting up $1000 and turned it into millions, also truck drivers for walmart buying stock thru their payroll and also becoming quite rich...maybe they don't have to ask the govt to pay for their re-training... :P
fezo: "The guy that defends all your malpractice cases?"...Yeah, LOL...
plus, aren't there numerous stories of how folks invested in Walmart in the beginning, putting up $1000 and turned it into millions, also truck drivers for walmart buying stock thru their payroll and also becoming quite rich...maybe they don't have to ask the govt to pay for their re-training.
Yeah, we've all heard those kind of stories. Thing is, for every person that bought Walmart when it was first starting out there are probably tens or hundreds who bought Montgomery Ward, Two Guys, or EJ Korvettes.
It's easy to pick the winners, once they're winners :P .
My phone is turned off at night and usually isn't answered at home unless I want to talk to who is on the other side. Anything more would require a raise and a promotion.
Me too; when I was full time I had to be available for emergency calls 24/7- I don't miss that one bit, since a considerable number of the "emergencies" were garbage...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Two Guys! My folks used to tell me that when I was in what was then called nursery school one of my best friends was the daughter of one of the two guys!
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
"Yeah, we've all heard those kind of stories. Thing is, for every person that bought Walmart when it was first starting out there are probably tens or hundreds who bought Montgomery Ward, Two Guys, or EJ Korvettes."
If you want a greater return than a savings account (even back in those days when there WAS interest paid) than you try the stock market, and you RISK your capital for a greater return...you want safety and security???...passbook savings...
hi guys, sorry if this might be the wrong place but i'm trying to get some feedback from people who have gone through a UAW tuition assistance program. my dad's been retired from gm for a few years and wants to go back to school for accounting. i guess he's just really bad at being retired and wants to find some PT work to keep him sane.
he says he has some money saved up for this but i think it's best he try to keep as much of his savings in "Savings". it looks like UAW has a tuition assistance program that's accepted by a lot of michigan area schools like dorsey: dorsey schools uaw tuition assistance program
has anyone had experience with this? just want to know how easy it is for retirees to get the discount.
Hey Marsh, I liked Korvette's and worked there as a teenager. Great record department with very good prices. Helped me build up a nice music collection. Thankls for reminding me of those old days!
Absolutely not. I do get a bit over $3000 but NO insurance. Teamsters cut it out of retirements at least 20 years ago. And I have 37 years in the Teamsters. How many years did it take your dad to get that kind of gold plated plan?
I net a little less than $3K but that includes health - but not dental or vision. It also includes that upon my demise that my wife will still collect. I could have taken more money and let my wife fend for herself but the actuarials favor her outliving me by a good 16 years before you even get into the fat=ct that she's basically healthy and I have scads of health issues.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
I opted for my outliving my wife option. I have condensed down our expenses to where she can maintain the same lifestyle without my pension. She is the one with the health issues. Though that does not mean a lot. I could be hit by a truck.
The young folks today are not likely to have as good a pension as we have. What most do not take into consideration is the fact that ERISA made defined pensions unsustainable. So most companies dropped them.
You've said that a number of times now. Why do you think that's the case? ERISA just set some reasonable vesting standards, level of funding reporting requirements, that sort of stuff. Why do you think that made defined pension plans unsustainable?
I would say the 5 year vesting mandate was the biggest issue I heard from company people that had defined pensions. It definitely put a bind into our Teamster plan. I am NOT saying it is unfair. I am saying defined pensions were conceived to give people a pension after a lifetime of service. When I left Bell in 1970 the vesting for their plan was 15 years. So my 9 years got me nothing. If they had a 401K, I could have taken it with me to another employer and would not have lost what was contributed. So ERISA was a good idea with bad consequences. Look how many defined plans are in bad shape. They are mostly ponzi schemes with the employers and employees hoping things get better to keep the plans afloat. The largest plan I know of is CALPers, and it is going under the low limit. And CA does not have the cash to build it back up.
CalPERS, CalSTRS funding levels plunge
A decade ago, when the stock market was booming, the funding levels of CalPERS and CalSTRS were both over 100 percent, a projection that assets would be more than enough to meet pension costs in the decades ahead.
Now the funding levels of the nation’s two largest public pension funds have dropped below what some regard as the acceptable minimum, 80 percent, and for different reasons are not likely to bounce back anytime soon.
Ahnold and Brown have tried to negotiate with the many Unions here to give the pension fund some leeway. Not working too well. Worse yet the State Legislature was trying to borrow money from the strapped fund.
CalPERS pays $11 billion a year in retirement benefits. While it's still coping with the effect of the 2008 market crash, its assets total $208 billion, making it a target for budget negotiators. Schwarzenegger says the two sides are $4 billion apart.
It was not that long ago the Fund was close to $300 Billion. So they were invested in fairly risky equities.
I agree that it's not a bad deal. The downsides are right now the State of New Jersey, where my pension is has frozen the amounts - no COLAs or anything - despite the fact that what has thrown the pension out of whack is that they didn't pay their share in and then stole money from the fund to balance the state budget.
Meanwhile, once I started drawing the pension they yanked my disability even though that is a separate insurance program I've paid into for four decades or more.
Once Social Security kicks in I'll be in nice shape - as good as I was when working. I'll have a load of expenses over the next several months while with reduced income. Hospital for 3 or 4 months. Health insurance covers the actual cost of procedure and such but there's lots of other stuff - not the least of which is that the hospital in in NYC - a good couple of hours away.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
OK. That helps me understand where you're coming from.
When I left Bell in 1970 the vesting for their plan was 15 years
Before ERISA, the vesting requirements were all over the place. Some companies, at least according to WiKi, didn't vest your pension benefits until the day you retired. Leave before then and you got nothing.
Look how many defined plans are in bad shape. They are mostly ponzi schemes with the employers and employees hoping things get better to keep the plans afloat
I agree, many plans are in bad shape. Do you think they would be in better shape without ERISA?
With the post-ERISA reporting requirements, at least the plans solvency has some visibility.
If they are a ponzi scheme now, they were even more so prior to ERISA.
As far as CalPERS and CalSTRS go, aren't they exempt from ERISA requirements, as they are state run? If so, then ERISA has had no impact on them.
Do you think they would be in better shape without ERISA?
Our Teamster plan and our local operating engineers plan would have been. Both were started 30 years prior based on 10 year vesting. When you have a lot of workers that work 5 years in the plan and leave the program, they become a long term liability. As a result of ERISA the top amount you could collect was capped. Somewhere around $5000 per month. Our plan had to drop the HC for life as a result. And they raised the retirement age from 45 years to 55 years of age. The major changes to ERISA came around 1990 if memory serves. I remember I was getting tired of the snow and cold and the job. I was eligible to take the early retirement after I turned 45 when all the changes took place. What it did was force me to work 10 more years before I would reach the same amount of retirement. When I turned 55 I was back in the groove and worked until I was 63. I am not complaining. Though we did also lose our automatic COLA. I have not gotten a raise since retiring. It is strictly based on what's in the fund and keeping it in good shape. Which again I am fine with. Don't want it to run out.
All that said, ERISA was probably good for some people not so good for others. And it caused a lot of companies to end their defined pension plans and go to the much easier to deal with 401K. Which we also had the last 7 years I worked.
I don't really know how much control the Feds have over state and local retirement plans. You are probably right as several municipalities have gone broke and quit paying their retirees. So California Public employees need to do some hard soul searching about bankrupting their retirement plans.
PBGC is only for defined pension plans in the private sector. So state and local public employees are only as protected as their state laws set up.
ERISA has been around since Nixon. The PBGC was set up back then. It was the various changes over the years that took its toll on some people and some plans. Another tool used by a lot of the oil companies was the golden Parachute. Both ARCO and BP bought out the pensions and gave employees early retirement. A lot of those people came back to the oil field as either consultants or subcontract workers. The people I know that happened to made out like bandits. Big pile of cash years to their retirement and a consulting job that paid BIG BUCKS. One friend that worked for many years on the oil field side of communications took the buyout and was back up in less than a year consulting. $1000 per day and all expenses. He knew ARCOs complex computer controlled pipeline system like no one else. And they paid dearly for what he knew.
When we went to work it was not uncommon to have people working at the same job for 35-40 years. Today it is so volatile. Maybe not as bad in the Public sector. But teachers here in CA get laid off each Spring and don't know if they have a job until Fall. I think 30,000 got those layoff notices last year by state law mandate.
March 15 has become an annual ritual marked by pain and distress for thousands of California teachers who will receive pink slips by the end of the day today, or will be waiting to receive them in the mail.
The last time most school districts did not have to issue layoff notices was in 2007-08, a year that is fast fading from memory.
in pension vesting, maybe that is a good reason for companies to dump pensions and have 401K's instead...the money is your from Day 1, hopefully the company offers some matching, and you can take it with you when you leave (like rollover into an IRA if need be) or just leave it where it is...
But since you put money into your own 401K, that means YOU are responsible for your own future...I realize some folks will compalin that "somebody else isn't assuming responsibility" for your future, you are...you choose the investment vehicle(s) like stocks, bonds, growth stocks, income stocks, gold, etc and hope you do well...but it is, after all, YOUR responsibility and that will grind up some folks on these boards...
Buffalo School district is facing a $42 million budget deficit and they paid out $5.9 million in botox and boob jobs last year alone. Union refuses to negotiate the contract. Why should they, it has an automatic 2.5% increase builtin? Sounds like some poor negotiations for decades with that Teachers Union.
But since you put money into your own 401K, that means YOU are responsible for your own future...I realize some folks will compalin that "somebody else isn't assuming responsibility" for your future, you are...you choose the investment vehicle(s) like stocks, bonds, growth stocks, income stocks, gold, etc and hope you do well...but it is, after all, YOUR responsibility and that will grind up some folks on these boards...
When companies started replacing pensions with 401k's, I wonder if they gave anybody raises to offset the fact that the employee was now paying for their own retirement (minus any company match, that is)?
I was "encouraged" (i.e., forced) to switch companies at the beginning of 2000, moving from a prime to a sub on the same contract. As a result, I no longer got a pension, but the 401k was better. The old company matched up to 1%, while the new one was either 3 or 4%. I also got a 9.6% raise, although that was partly to offset increased health insurance. And I got 7 weeks of severance pay from the old company, one week for every year I had worked with them.
And, I'll still get that pension when I hit 65. Those 7 years of service ensure that, in the year 2035, I will get a whopping $349.21 per month!
Personally, I like having a 401k and knowing that I'm the one responsible for it. And for all I know, if I had stayed with that old company (Boeing), they very well could have found a way to freeze, or otherwise screw up, my pension. But, I'm also pretty well-disciplined financially. Alas, a great deal of the populace is not. :sick:
"When companies started replacing pensions with 401k's, I wonder if they gave anybody raises to offset the fact that the employee was now paying for their own retirement (minus any company match, that is)?"
That would be nice, but we are still responsible for our own future, even if that raise never happened...plus, if they match YOUR contribution, that is still extra money in your paycheck that costs the company...
" But, I'm also pretty well-disciplined financially. Alas, a great deal of the populace is not."
That is their problem...one has to make a choice...if you want us to treat you like children, then give upo your rights and we will treat you like children...if you want to be an adult, take responsibility for your financial future and be an adult...
Some folks don;t know how to manage money...that is not my problem, it is theirs...I don't know how to weld, so if I need welding, I hire someone to do it...
You can't manage money???...than pay someone else, which will take some of your profits, but I spend some of my profits hiring a welder, or a roofer, or a painter, or an auto technician...it really is the same thing, but those "entitlement hounds" think that someone should manage their money for free, and that "someone" should be their employer...WRONG...the 401K means you may actually have to read and learn and...GASP...be responsible for your own life...what a concept!!!
And for all I know, if I had stayed with that old company (Boeing), they very well could have found a way to freeze, or otherwise screw up, my pension.
Well, if they froze then plan, that just means you would not accrue any more benefits under that plan. But whatever you had accrued up to the freezing is still yours.
My company terminated its defined benefit plan back in 1994, But the amount I had earned up to that time has not changed. They converted to a cash balance plan in 1995, which is still in existence, at least for older employees. Yes, they have whittled down what they contribute two or three times (which affects the payout), but I will get an annuity from that, depending on my age and the balance at the time I start taking benefits.
For employees hired after 2008, there is no pension at all. Just a slightly enhanced 410K, over what we have.
401K's are a scam! Might as well go to Vegas, and put your money on a roulette table and spin the damn wheel! I'm yet to meet a blue collar 401K millionaire!!!
Comments
On the tech side. I still have a Win7 Pro machine that I use strictly for A/V editing. I still cannot figure out how to access all the files from the network. They have to be in Public. I don't like the duplication of file locations. You are right about Vista and ME both a rip-off. I started with Win2.0 when the company forced us to take all their records off our personal Atari 1040 ST machines. :shades:
Using the public folder is the easiest way, but you you can give specific folder sharing permissions so a particular folder can be shared, though the permissions etc can be a PITA. If all computers on the network are Windows 7,homegroup works pretty well.
But you can definitely share files and folders w/o using the public folder. Also, an app like dropbox works great for sharing files. It's free for 2gb of storage. It works great to share across multiple platforms. Granted security is always an issue..
diesel: " I would like to see you check emails and open excel files from a black berry while driving 70 MPH down the interstate."...that's nothing...most folks here in GA drive the interstate at 70, put on makeup with one hand, eat a Big Mac with the other, reach over for the occasional French Fry, and text with the "third" hand...please don't ask me which hand they steer with... :confuse: :confuse:
LOL
In complete seriousness, I've been known in past years to be on the cell phone while driving stick, and eating fast food while driving stick -- yet never an accident in 40 years of driving... I am very careful. In my experience, starting to read texts or reply (using a keyboard as opposed to a voice) is a whole new level of distraction and danger vs. those other things...
My phone is turned off at night and usually isn't answered at home unless I want to talk to who is on the other side. Anything more would require a raise and a promotion.
Ah the HP mobo fiasco. Got a friend's new looking Compaq stashed in my closest. He was TDY for months and missed the recall. Lousy company.
Went by the big new VW plant here in Chattanooga this morning crusing over to my mom's place. Didn't see a single UAW picketer.
Looking back, I agree. Currently running XP Pro on both my home machine and at work. Though I am in the process to moving everything at home over to a Mac Mini handed down from my son.
Oh, and BTW. I have a set of DOS 3.1 discs if you really want something simple :P .
I didn't see any picketers at the MB and BMW factories in AL and SC either. They looked like world class facilities inside, too.
I had the deadliest combination on an old desktop - a Compaq with Windows ME. Ugh.
fintail: "My phone is turned off at night and usually isn't answered at home unless I want to talk to who is on the other side"...I do turn mine to silent after 8-9 pm, and charge it overnight...but I do answer it after 5 pm...being self employed, it might be a paying client that wants to
screw the credit cardsfile bankruptcy and needs a good lawyer, and I think I know one...The guy that defends all your malpractice cases?
Your knees get a workout...
The software king offers what may be the most generous health-insurance plan in America. The premium is zero, with no deductible. And it's the first U.S. corporation to pay for therapy for dependents who are autistic.
Notice the top paid person at Microsoft only made 11 times the average salary. I watched a show where a guy working in the cafeteria made enough on his MSFT stock to quit and open his own restaurant.
http://www.salarylist.com/company/Microsoft-Salary.htm
Treating employees well and giving them maybe more than you absolutely have to? Very anti-capitalist in a way, at least the brand of "capitalism" some desire here.
Look how the stock has performed in the past 10-12 years - no fortunes being made lately. Getting in during the mid-late 80s is where the real fortunes were made.
fezo: "The guy that defends all your malpractice cases?"...Yeah, LOL...
Yeah, we've all heard those kind of stories. Thing is, for every person that bought Walmart when it was first starting out there are probably tens or hundreds who bought Montgomery Ward, Two Guys, or EJ Korvettes.
It's easy to pick the winners, once they're winners :P .
Me too; when I was full time I had to be available for emergency calls 24/7- I don't miss that one bit, since a considerable number of the "emergencies" were garbage...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
If you want a greater return than a savings account (even back in those days when there WAS interest paid) than you try the stock market, and you RISK your capital for a greater return...you want safety and security???...passbook savings...
he says he has some money saved up for this but i think it's best he try to keep as much of his savings in "Savings". it looks like UAW has a tuition assistance program that's accepted by a lot of michigan area schools like dorsey: dorsey schools uaw tuition assistance program
has anyone had experience with this? just want to know how easy it is for retirees to get the discount.
I bet your Teamster pension plan is way better than both!
-Rocky
-Rocky
The young folks today are not likely to have as good a pension as we have. What most do not take into consideration is the fact that ERISA made defined pensions unsustainable. So most companies dropped them.
You've said that a number of times now. Why do you think that's the case? ERISA just set some reasonable vesting standards, level of funding reporting requirements, that sort of stuff. Why do you think that made defined pension plans unsustainable?
CalPERS, CalSTRS funding levels plunge
A decade ago, when the stock market was booming, the funding levels of CalPERS and CalSTRS were both over 100 percent, a projection that assets would be more than enough to meet pension costs in the decades ahead.
Now the funding levels of the nation’s two largest public pension funds have dropped below what some regard as the acceptable minimum, 80 percent, and for different reasons are not likely to bounce back anytime soon.
Ahnold and Brown have tried to negotiate with the many Unions here to give the pension fund some leeway. Not working too well. Worse yet the State Legislature was trying to borrow money from the strapped fund.
CalPERS pays $11 billion a year in retirement benefits. While it's still coping with the effect of the 2008 market crash, its assets total $208 billion, making it a target for budget negotiators. Schwarzenegger says the two sides are $4 billion apart.
It was not that long ago the Fund was close to $300 Billion. So they were invested in fairly risky equities.
Meanwhile, once I started drawing the pension they yanked my disability even though that is a separate insurance program I've paid into for four decades or more.
Once Social Security kicks in I'll be in nice shape - as good as I was when working. I'll have a load of expenses over the next several months while with reduced income. Hospital for 3 or 4 months. Health insurance covers the actual cost of procedure and such but there's lots of other stuff - not the least of which is that the hospital in in NYC - a good couple of hours away.
When I left Bell in 1970 the vesting for their plan was 15 years
Before ERISA, the vesting requirements were all over the place. Some companies, at least according to WiKi, didn't vest your pension benefits until the day you retired. Leave before then and you got nothing.
Look how many defined plans are in bad shape. They are mostly ponzi schemes with the employers and employees hoping things get better to keep the plans afloat
I agree, many plans are in bad shape. Do you think they would be in better shape without ERISA?
With the post-ERISA reporting requirements, at least the plans solvency has some visibility.
If they are a ponzi scheme now, they were even more so prior to ERISA.
As far as CalPERS and CalSTRS go, aren't they exempt from ERISA requirements, as they are state run? If so, then ERISA has had no impact on them.
Our Teamster plan and our local operating engineers plan would have been. Both were started 30 years prior based on 10 year vesting. When you have a lot of workers that work 5 years in the plan and leave the program, they become a long term liability. As a result of ERISA the top amount you could collect was capped. Somewhere around $5000 per month. Our plan had to drop the HC for life as a result. And they raised the retirement age from 45 years to 55 years of age. The major changes to ERISA came around 1990 if memory serves. I remember I was getting tired of the snow and cold and the job. I was eligible to take the early retirement after I turned 45 when all the changes took place. What it did was force me to work 10 more years before I would reach the same amount of retirement. When I turned 55 I was back in the groove and worked until I was 63. I am not complaining. Though we did also lose our automatic COLA. I have not gotten a raise since retiring. It is strictly based on what's in the fund and keeping it in good shape. Which again I am fine with. Don't want it to run out.
All that said, ERISA was probably good for some people not so good for others. And it caused a lot of companies to end their defined pension plans and go to the much easier to deal with 401K. Which we also had the last 7 years I worked.
I don't really know how much control the Feds have over state and local retirement plans. You are probably right as several municipalities have gone broke and quit paying their retirees. So California Public employees need to do some hard soul searching about bankrupting their retirement plans.
PBGC is only for defined pension plans in the private sector. So state and local public employees are only as protected as their state laws set up.
ERISA has been around since Nixon. The PBGC was set up back then. It was the various changes over the years that took its toll on some people and some plans. Another tool used by a lot of the oil companies was the golden Parachute. Both ARCO and BP bought out the pensions and gave employees early retirement. A lot of those people came back to the oil field as either consultants or subcontract workers. The people I know that happened to made out like bandits. Big pile of cash years to their retirement and a consulting job that paid BIG BUCKS. One friend that worked for many years on the oil field side of communications took the buyout and was back up in less than a year consulting. $1000 per day and all expenses. He knew ARCOs complex computer controlled pipeline system like no one else. And they paid dearly for what he knew.
March 15 has become an annual ritual marked by pain and distress for thousands of California teachers who will receive pink slips by the end of the day today, or will be waiting to receive them in the mail.
The last time most school districts did not have to issue layoff notices was in 2007-08, a year that is fast fading from memory.
But since you put money into your own 401K, that means YOU are responsible for your own future...I realize some folks will compalin that "somebody else isn't assuming responsibility" for your future, you are...you choose the investment vehicle(s) like stocks, bonds, growth stocks, income stocks, gold, etc and hope you do well...but it is, after all, YOUR responsibility and that will grind up some folks on these boards...
Buffalo, New York Teachers Get Free Plastic Surgery
When companies started replacing pensions with 401k's, I wonder if they gave anybody raises to offset the fact that the employee was now paying for their own retirement (minus any company match, that is)?
I was "encouraged" (i.e., forced) to switch companies at the beginning of 2000, moving from a prime to a sub on the same contract. As a result, I no longer got a pension, but the 401k was better. The old company matched up to 1%, while the new one was either 3 or 4%. I also got a 9.6% raise, although that was partly to offset increased health insurance. And I got 7 weeks of severance pay from the old company, one week for every year I had worked with them.
And, I'll still get that pension when I hit 65. Those 7 years of service ensure that, in the year 2035, I will get a whopping $349.21 per month!
Personally, I like having a 401k and knowing that I'm the one responsible for it. And for all I know, if I had stayed with that old company (Boeing), they very well could have found a way to freeze, or otherwise screw up, my pension. But, I'm also pretty well-disciplined financially. Alas, a great deal of the populace is not. :sick:
That would be nice, but we are still responsible for our own future, even if that raise never happened...plus, if they match YOUR contribution, that is still extra money in your paycheck that costs the company...
" But, I'm also pretty well-disciplined financially. Alas, a great deal of the populace is not."
That is their problem...one has to make a choice...if you want us to treat you like children, then give upo your rights and we will treat you like children...if you want to be an adult, take responsibility for your financial future and be an adult...
Some folks don;t know how to manage money...that is not my problem, it is theirs...I don't know how to weld, so if I need welding, I hire someone to do it...
You can't manage money???...than pay someone else, which will take some of your profits, but I spend some of my profits hiring a welder, or a roofer, or a painter, or an auto technician...it really is the same thing, but those "entitlement hounds" think that someone should manage their money for free, and that "someone" should be their employer...WRONG...the 401K means you may actually have to read and learn and...GASP...be responsible for your own life...what a concept!!!
Well, if they froze then plan, that just means you would not accrue any more benefits under that plan. But whatever you had accrued up to the freezing is still yours.
My company terminated its defined benefit plan back in 1994, But the amount I had earned up to that time has not changed. They converted to a cash balance plan in 1995, which is still in existence, at least for older employees. Yes, they have whittled down what they contribute two or three times (which affects the payout), but I will get an annuity from that, depending on my age and the balance at the time I start taking benefits.
For employees hired after 2008, there is no pension at all. Just a slightly enhanced 410K, over what we have.
Sure it was. But as I've said before - what do they care? It's not their money.
No, that's what I am supposed to say. :shades: A day of reckoning is coming. Sadly it looks like our grandkids will be the ones doing the Greece bit.
Also his pension is reduced once he hits Social Security. I know the teamster plan doesn't do that! So you have the "gold plated" plan actually!!! :P
-Rocky
-Rocky
Okay, keep telling yourself that.