@Stever@Edmunds said:
"The UAW and a global labor group called IndustriALL are asking the U.S. State Department to oversee mediation talks with Nissan at its Canton, Miss., plant over workers’ right to organize a union.
“This is not a standard textbook organizing drive,” said Kristin Dziczek, director of the industry and labor group for the Center for Automotive Research, adding that the UAW cannot afford to back away from its organizing goals just because it lost the Volkswagen vote."
UAW is on Life Support and these are just last ditch efforts to stay alive. They have almost 2 retirees to support for every worker. We already gave them $27 Billion to get their Pension fund to where it was not in the take over range. They mention a French company in Indiana. They are no longer in business. The UAW has nothing to offer the Nissan workers except a big dues and their retirement being used up before they ever get a chance to retire.
I assume it is not necessary for me to post this (but I will) that the UAW losing can only be a blessing for America...if they cannot gain any new members (I think I read that they are down from a high of 1.5 million members, to about 400,000) then eventually they will have 5 retirees for every working member (does this sound like Social Security now?) and the UAW will simply close down...or, as they say, will the last UAW member leaving the building please turn out the lights and sign the final rent check?
In the 30s and 40s, I believe unions were necessary...but they served their purpose and now they should evaporate and go away as unnecessary...just like buggy-whip makers and Conestoga wagon makers, they served a purpose, but they are no longer needed...there is no reason to just "keep unions around" for posterity's sake...they did their job, they did it well (I mean, changing the American work environment like 40 hour workweeks, etc., not the quality of their work that they gave us in the 70s and 80s, altho I would bet they make good cars now) and now it is time for them to join the buggy whip makers and go away...
I think they will stay in TN. I don't believe for a minute the local management wanted the UAW to win. They were under extreme pressure from the unions in Germany. The UAW got more than a good chance to win the hearts of the workers in TN. They had nothing to offer. The D3 contracts are horrible. I look for the UAW to strike all of them in 2015. That should just about bury GM for good. The only real profit is in their China division. GM should have been allowed to die. Look at the mess they have with their best selling vehicles killing people with shoddy designs and parts. I don't blame that on the UAW. It is GM was rotten to the core and the tax payers gave them another chance and they are blowing it.
"GM should have been allowed to die"...yes, that would have been the proper thing to do...using taxpayer money to save a mismanaged company, or an unprofitable company, is a crime against nature...let the chips fall where they may...Ford would have survived, GM would be gone, and someone, somewhere would have bought the worthwhile assets and brands that GM had...
And, if not, that is the way of capitalism...do we need to give gov't (our) money to Blackberry (Research in Motion, I believe) because they once RULED the (almost) smartphone market, and now they are almost nothing compared to Android and iPhone...I remember in 2009 when they were making headlines about how Obama was the first Pres to have a phone like a Blackberry so he could receive emails, etc...now, 5 years later, Blackberry is on the skids...
And, if it goes under, all those Blackberry employees will have to find other jobs, just like UAW workers (and salaried workers, too) if GM had closed...all we did was subsidize a Democrat voting block of voters by keeping GM alive, which, to me, is the highest corruption you can think of...
Whether Blackberry, Lehman Brothers, or GM, let the market rule and let the fallout occur...get rid of deadwood companies and let the business cycle go on...
Someone would have bought Cadillac (and got the workers, too), maybe Chevrolet (think Corvette) and GMC/Chevy Truck...maybe even Buick...the plants that made those cars would have had the workers keep their jobs...
Of course, letting GM die would then open up the door for compensating measures to enacted for those who don't practice our version of "capitalism" (haha) and bail out or subsidize their own makers, no?
@fintail said:
Of course, letting GM die would then open up the door for compensating measures to enacted for those who don't practice our version of "capitalism" (haha) and bail out or subsidize their own makers, no?
It would be interesting to find out how much of the stock was bought by Chinese investors when the Government dumped it at a big loss. The Chinese already own a sizable portion of the GM operation in China. It is making money. I don't think the Chinese have the UAW to deal with.
@gagrice said:
It would be interesting to find out how much of the stock was bought by Chinese investors when the Government dumped it at a big loss. The Chinese already own a sizable portion of the GM operation in China. It is making money. I don't think the Chinese have the UAW to deal with.
The cars that GM sells in China...are they made here and exported, (UAW labor) or are there GM plants in China making cars for the "domestic" market (non-UAW, I would assume...I would bet that the phrase "labor union" has no translation into Chinese)...
Also, I read conflicting articles so I have no idea what goes on in China...first, I hear that they have 12 lane interstates where folks drive their Buicks at high speed to go places...then I read that China has numerous large cities with thousands of empty buildings (residential and commercial) and that their economy is on the verge of collapse...
Which one has any validity, as both are highly unlikely...
Just like it would be political suicide for whichever President is in office at the time to get rid of Social Security payouts. Not going to happen. Not on their watch!
"Disputes between unions and employers over paying for new costs associated with the Affordable Care Act are roiling labor talks nationwide.
Unions and employers are tussling over who will pick up the tab for new mandates, such as coverage for dependent children to age 26, as well as future costs, such as a tax on premium health plans starting in 2018. The question is poised to become a significant point of tension as tens of thousands of labor contracts covering millions of workers expire in the next several years, with ACA-related cost increases ranging from 5 percent to 12.5 percent in current talks. "
That ought to get the UAW adrenalin flowing. The D3 contracts are up in 2015. And the UAW is wanting to end the two tier wage scale. This will make it even harder to get past the militiants in the Union.
@gagrice said:
That ought to get the UAW adrenalin flowing. The D3 contracts are up in 2015. And the UAW is wanting to end the two tier wage scale. This will make it even harder to get past the militiants in the Union.
@tlong said:
I thought they agreed to the two-tier scale? Funny how good times change their minds. That horse left the barn; time to accept it and move on, UAW.
The people that agreed to the two tier were making the big bucks and did not want to take a cut in pay. They get the $30 per hour and agreed that the newbies get $15 per hour and no pension only 401K.
PS
I think the company figured the high priced help would retire and everyone would be on the lower scale which tops about $19 per hour. I cannot imagine working along side someone doing the same job making twice the wage. That should never happen in a Union contract. All for one, One for all. Or dump the UAW. I look for a lot of Michigan UAW members to quit paying dues if those contracts don't get fixed.
In numerous companies, the heal insurance premium is paid by the company for the employee, but spouse and children premium payments are withheld from the employee's paycheck, i.e. paid by the employee...are UAW the same way?...I would be surprised if it was...
@marsha7 said:
In numerous companies, the heal insurance premium is paid by the company for the employee, but spouse and children premium payments are withheld from the employee's paycheck, i.e. paid by the employee...are UAW the same way?...I would be surprised if it was...
I think the new members have to pay for family HC premiums. The new contracts are NOTHING like the old gold plated ones. I hear a lot of grumbling on FB from new UAW workers wanting the good old days to return. I don't see it happening. If they go on strike as some of the militants claim, you will see more factories set up in Mexico. GM has moved most of their PU production to MX.
"Sean McAlinden, an economist at the Center for Automotive Research, said King was able to halt the union’s lengthy membership slide.
McAlinden said King made organizing “more important than it’s been to the UAW since the 1930s and ’40s. ... He’s a real thinker, but he was up against so many obstacles including the overall economy.”
King crisscrossed the globe, reaching out to unions to pressure foreign automakers to agree to fair bargaining. King points to big organizing gains among auto parts firms, casinos and higher education. At the end of last year, the union had 391,415 members — up 11 percent from when he took office. Still, the union’s membership is down substantially from the 1.5 million it had at its peak in 1979."
It's convention time. Blurbs from the Detroit Free Press.
"The most controversial proposal before convention delegates would increase monthly union dues from two hours of pay to two and a half hours. The increase would go into the UAW’s strike fund.
If approved, it would be the first percentage increase since 1967." (link)
@stever said:
It's convention time. Blurbs from the Detroit Free Press.
"The most controversial proposal before convention delegates would increase monthly union dues from two hours of pay to two and a half hours. The increase would go into the UAW’s strike fund.
If approved, it would be the first percentage increase since 1967." (link)
If the UAW wages had kept up with inflation the dues would be inflation proof based on hourly wages. They have not, so the greedy union wants to stick it to the workers. I hope a bunch bail out in Michigan this next round and teach them a lesson on proper Union management. Wasting strike funds organizing should be addressed at this convention.
As for the Union goober from Germany, he is a die hard. If they held the election next month after the UAW sticks it to their members on dues, You can bet the UAW would lose by a bigger margin. The bigger issue is VW selling more cars. They are not doing that well here. If early reports for May are true they barely beat Ford.
"A core group of pro-union employees has asked the UAW to stop campaigning at the German automaker's Tuscaloosa County plant, because the current effort has gone on too long without success."
"A core group of pro-union employees has asked the UAW to stop campaigning at the German automaker's Tuscaloosa County plant, because the current effort has gone on too long without success."
I think this says a lot about the UAW now and in the past.
"It's all about the image with the UAW, and it's not about the workers," Spitzley said.
"We're dedicated to the cause of furthering workers' rights," Garner said. "We just don't want to do it with the UAW."
I think if the Germans would set up their own Union, Southern Auto Worker with the help of the German unions, they may be able to get VW, BMW, MB and Audi factories. I have 46 years in 3 different Unions, and the UAW would not be on my list of ones to join.
Is it fair to say that the UAW was 100% necessary back in the 30s and 40s, and gave us many of the things we take for granted today...benefits, 40 hour work week, vacations, etc.
But, just like the buggy-whip makers, they became obsolete as time went on and society adopted many of their ideas...now, the UAW is as useless as vacuum tube makers and buggy whip makers, and should be dissolved, but maybe erect a monument to them for what they did in the past that really did improve society...but they have truly outlived their usefulness and should just go away, maybe with a little certificate that says "Job Well Done" so they can go away quietly...
I don't think unions could become any more obsolete than a police force might when the neighborhood gets quiet. Capitalism is somewhat rapacious and it treats labor as a commodity it must buy at the lowest possible price. I remember the story told to me by someone who worked on building the Golden Gate Bridge during the Great Depression. Bunches of men would gather under the bridge by the hiring station and wait for someone to fall off.
I see it as Government becoming so powerful and repressive they destroy any incentive for capitalism to work. Making private labor Unions and their workers unneeded. The only unions and their workers benefitting are associated with the government.
Speaking of over paid government union workers. Looks like the German union automakers are going to lose some of their jobs to lower priced NON Union auto workers in the USA.
(Reuters) - Carmaker BMW intends to cut 100 million euros ($136 million) of German labor costs annually from 2015 onwards, German local newspaper Muenchner Merkur reported on Monday on its web page, citing workers' representatives.
In March, BMW announced it would invest $1 billion to expand its U.S. plant in Spartanburg, South Carolina, increasing the number of people employed there by about 800 to 8,800, making it the group's biggest production facility by 2016.
"The United Auto Workers union plans to establish a local union to represent workers at the Volkswagen AG plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., and attempt to work with the German auto maker just months after a vote by workers to establish a union failed, according to press reports.
Union membership would be voluntary, but the local outpost would work with management to establish a "works council" to set up work rules at the plant similar to other VW plants around the world, according to a report in the Nashville Tennessean published Thursday morning. The UAW declined to comment immediately on its strategy but has scheduled a news conference for Thursday afternoon."
"The United Auto Workers union plans to establish a local union to represent workers at the Volkswagen AG plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., and attempt to work with the German auto maker just months after a vote by workers to establish a union failed, according to press reports.
Union membership would be voluntary, but the local outpost would work with management to establish a "works council" to set up work rules at the plant similar to other VW plants around the world, according to a report in the Nashville Tennessean published Thursday morning. The UAW declined to comment immediately on its strategy but has scheduled a news conference for Thursday afternoon."
That may be a smart move by the UAW. When I went to work for Pacific Telephone in 1961 the CWA was our local union. I was not approached to join until I had worked there for 3 years. Not sure how much power they had at negotiations. They did go on strike in 1968 for 2 weeks. Nothing was gained. What they did do well was grievances that were legitimate. They protected my job when I got crossways with an incompetent supervisor that did not know his job very well. Of course I told him and he tried to get me fired. The CWA was very much like what VW has in mind. Maybe the UAW can leave their baseball bats in Detroit and form a civilized Union that benefit both the company and the workers. I am skeptical.
It is only my opinion but I believe it is because many people see the Union as just another level of management but one that does not provide a pay check but one that deducts from that pay check. The second might be the loss of contact with reality the union seems to have with the idea of competition. When you are trying to sell a product like a car and there are other manufacturers making and selling cars in the same area it can cause problems when you demand a wage increase when you believe the company can least afford a disruption in supply. If Toyota, Honda and Nissan happen to selling cars in the same area then the advantage can often go to the company that doesn't have to worry about a strike when they can least afford it.
Te second idea is self evident in the low number of unionized workers in the Private sector and the numbers seems to be getting lower every year. Some will blame the economy. But my for my second contention I can only address personal experience. I have been in the union and I have been in management and the latter was a lot less stressful than the former. As an example: My son joined the sheet metal workers union and became an apprentice. He was doing quite well and soon had lots of work all over the area. Finally he got a job at a place he really liked and was able to rent an apartment close to work. Then one day the union objected to him working on the site because they said there were too many apprentices and would have to hire another Journeyman or lay off an apprentice. Guess what happened.
Looks like VW was not unhappy with the workforce voting down the UAW. So much for the Union in Germany having much pull with what goes on in the rest of the World.
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. -
More new jobs are coming to Tennessee thanks to the expansion of Volkswagen.
The company announced Monday morning it plans to expand it's U.S. operations by adding a new manufacturing line.
The automaker plans to build a new plant to manufacture a new mid-size SUV for the American market.
Volkswagen will make a $900-million investment in the facility which will create 2,000 jobs.
"Today is an exciting day not just for Chattanooga and Hamilton County but for all of Tennessee, and I want to thank Volkswagen for its significant long-term investment in our state," Haslam said. "The impact of this announcement goes far beyond the 2,000 new jobs because of the large multiplier effect of the automotive industry, and adding an additional manufacturing line and the National Research & Development and Planning Center sends a clear signal that Tennessee can compete with anyone in the global marketplace."
@stever said:
Senator Corker will be rubbing it in good now.
That's good news for my nephew who's been working for an auto supplier for the last year there; they supply some interior bits for VW.
Corker was right on his call. I never believed the BS that VW America wanted the UAW. It was purely a move to satisfy the German Unions that are losing work to the USA, China and other countries.
"VW's investment is a vote of confidence in Tennessee and the supply base," said Tom Brewer, president of the Tennessee Automotive Manufacturers Association. "It means more high-quality jobs at the plant in Chattanooga and more jobs for the growing supply base across the state."
@stever said:
Senator Corker will be rubbing it in good now.
I give Chattanooga about 20 more years before you won't be able to tell where it ends and Atlanta begins.
I don't think it will take 20 years, maybe 10...who woulda thunk when I came down here in 1971, and Atlanta was mostly confined to Fulton County inside I-285, that it would expand so much that Chattanooga, which was a 90 minute drive from Atlanta, would almost become a bedroom community for Atlanta...in 1975, Marietta (Cobb County) and Lilburn (Gwinnett County) were almost considered a day trip as almost no one lived there, and by 1979, Cobb County and Gwinnett County were filling up rapidly...
When I lived there from '74 to '77, going to Atlanta was a bit of a treat. I still get to Chattanooga once or twice a year and the last thing I want to do is drive in the mess down your way. Chattanooga is bad enough with the three interstates crossing, although the ten lanes help a lot now. In the old days, I'd fly there via Memphis just to avoid your airport.
We plan to drive down to TN in a couple of weeks in fact. I guess all the anti-UAW billboards will be plastered over with Gatlinburg ads now that the election is long past.
@stever said:
We plan to drive down to TN in a couple of weeks in fact. I guess all the anti-UAW billboards will be plastered over with Gatlinburg ads now that the election is long past.
Don't they have Lookout Mountain ads anymore?
I recall in the 60s/70s cars returning from trips having Lookout Mountain ads pasted to their bumpers, front and rear. I don't know if the Lookout Mountain people pasted them on while you were parked or it was voluntary.
@stever said:
When I lived there from '74 to '77, going to Atlanta was a bit of a treat. I still get to Chattanooga once or twice a year and the last thing I want to do is drive in the mess down your way. Chattanooga is bad enough with the two interstates crossing, although the ten lanes help a lot now. In the old days, I'd fly there via Memphis just to avoid your airport.
I spent a couple months going to a trade school at Western Union around 1975 in Atlanta. I remember staying at a nice hotel up around Marrietta, to get away from the city. It was a busy commute to downtown even then. I made a couple day trips to the big antique shops in Chattanooga. It seemed so dismal and dirty from what I recall. Lots of smoke in the air. The drive was pretty. I could live down there away from the crowds.
I am sure the expansion news is a direct result of the workers rejecting the UAW. As long as VWUSA treats their people decent, they will not have to worry about that leech union winning an election. There latest attempt to get VW workers to join seems like a real lame plan.
See Ruby Falls and See Rock City ads are still all over (not so many painted barns now though).
Haven't noticed any bumper ads in a while - the old ones were affixed with metal tabs around the bumpers, but the new molded bumpers don't lend themselves to that, and people would get mad if you put something adhesive on their car.
Most likely they sell bumper stickers in the gift shop instead (who knows, they could even be union printed).
And yeah, Chattanooga really cleaned up their act - that had started when I lived there. Still a lot of heavy industry around. It's been booming long before VW arrived though; DuPont has been there for decades. Cleaning up the riverfront and building the aquarium revitalized downtown. Misspoke about the freeways; there's three interstates that converge there.
Another thing I liked about Las Cruces - their fire plugs were cast by Mueller in Chattanooga. You see those a lot of places. Mueller is still there, but the fire plug casting is done in Alabama now. And yeah, some of Mueller's divisions have stuff made by union labor, even over in Alabama.
My favorite memory of Atlanta was going to see Stone Mountain for the first time and driving there in the fog early one morning. As we got close the fog lifted and boom - there it was.
(Going by the Klan history, you could say it's an anti-Union site).
I think the new CrossBlue would be built in Mexico if the workers voted for the UAW.
At a celebration Tuesday afternoon for the expansion of Chattanooga's Volkswagen plant, Senator Bob Corker said talks were renewed on the SUV project three days after plant employees narrowly rejected the United Auto Workers on April 21.
On the podium were VW officials, Senator Corker, Senator Lamar Alexander, Governor Bill Haslam, Mayor Andy Berke and County Mayor Coppinger.
Both Governor Haslam and Senator Alexander said, "We would not be standing here today were it not for Bob Corker."
The former Chattanooga mayor in turn praised the role of Governor Haslam, saying he has been his friend for over 40 years "and I've never been prouder of him."
VW has a number of problems these days and the UAW isn't even the biggest one. IMHO their vehicles are much less appealing than they were in the mid 00's.
@roadburner said:
The "Americanized" Passat and Jetta leave me cold- to my eyes they are just as boring as a Camry...
Isn't that what Americans want Boring sedans? And if it handles and gets great mileage, that is a big plus. I have never had a vehicle that was so comfortable driving 650 miles straight with two potty stops, than our Touareg TDI. No stress over getting to the next town with a gas station. Cruise all day 75-80 MPH and still get near 30 MPG. The US or Japan has nothing in that league. Americans are real slow to catch on.
@gagrice said:
Isn't that what Americans want Boring sedans? And if it handles and gets great mileage, that is a big plus.
>
Could be...I like the current Passat enough that I'd check one out if I was in the market for a new car. Not because it's boring, but because it finally looks big enough for my preferences. While handling and mileage are nice bonuses, I gotta go with comfort first. If it's not comfortable to me, then it's useless no matter how economical it is, or how well it performs.
One of my friends had a 2001.5 Passat sedan that I rode in a few times. That was a nice car...a bit smaller than I'm used to, but it made pretty good use of its interior room. A comfy compact, in my opinion. Seemed to have nice, upscale interior appointments as well. However, it was also pretty expensive, as I recall.
I'm sure they've cut some corners with the newer models, to hold the line on prices, so the current one probably isn't as nice inside as that 2001.5 was.
@roadburner said:
The "Americanized" Passat and Jetta leave me cold- to my eyes they are just as boring as a Camry...
...but with German repair prices and reliablity. No thanks. At least in the past they were fun to drive and had beautiful interiors. Now why would you buy one?
My first day here in 1971, the folks who picked me up at the airport took me to climb Stone Mountain...it was over 90 degrees, I had long pants and zip up boots (the thing to wear back then)...talk about stupid...it was my first day down south...
VW has a ways to go to catch up with their neighbors in Greer, at least in the export game. And SC is a RTW state and there's few UAW workers at BMW there. (autoblog.com)
@stever said:
VW has a ways to go to catch up with their neighbors in Greer, at least in the export game. And SC is a RTW state and there's few UAW workers at BMW there. (autoblog.com)
I think the Germans are looking at the USA to get away from the Unions in their home country. I don't think VWUSA was in the least bit unhappy their workforce rejected the UAW. I wonder how the German Unions react to all the BMW SUVs being built in the USA. Or are they happy building much of the components?
@gagrice said:
I think the Germans are looking at the USA to get away from the Unions in their home country. I don't think VWUSA was in the least bit unhappy their workforce rejected the UAW. I wonder how the German Unions react to all the BMW SUVs being built in the USA. Or are they happy building much of the components?
BMW and MB first opened plants in the US to avoid the chicken tax not the unions in Germany. They realized that they could not compete in the SUV market with a 25% penalty and that North America was really the only market for those vehicles. Other than the new C class, BMW and MB don't make anything other SUV's here in North America.
Interestingly enough, the US based German plants build about 1/10th the number of cars that they do in Germany which suggests that even with the unions, they are happy with the profits of the German plants.
Comments
UAW is on Life Support and these are just last ditch efforts to stay alive. They have almost 2 retirees to support for every worker. We already gave them $27 Billion to get their Pension fund to where it was not in the take over range. They mention a French company in Indiana. They are no longer in business. The UAW has nothing to offer the Nissan workers except a big dues and their retirement being used up before they ever get a chance to retire.
I assume it is not necessary for me to post this (but I will) that the UAW losing can only be a blessing for America...if they cannot gain any new members (I think I read that they are down from a high of 1.5 million members, to about 400,000) then eventually they will have 5 retirees for every working member (does this sound like Social Security now?) and the UAW will simply close down...or, as they say, will the last UAW member leaving the building please turn out the lights and sign the final rent check?
In the 30s and 40s, I believe unions were necessary...but they served their purpose and now they should evaporate and go away as unnecessary...just like buggy-whip makers and Conestoga wagon makers, they served a purpose, but they are no longer needed...there is no reason to just "keep unions around" for posterity's sake...they did their job, they did it well (I mean, changing the American work environment like 40 hour workweeks, etc., not the quality of their work that they gave us in the 70s and 80s, altho I would bet they make good cars now) and now it is time for them to join the buggy whip makers and go away...
UAW membership has declined 42% over the last 10 years. Current membership is about 382,00
I wouldn't trust VW in any event. They may decide to pack up and go to Mexico regardless of what the UAW or TN does or doesn't do.
I think they will stay in TN. I don't believe for a minute the local management wanted the UAW to win. They were under extreme pressure from the unions in Germany. The UAW got more than a good chance to win the hearts of the workers in TN. They had nothing to offer. The D3 contracts are horrible. I look for the UAW to strike all of them in 2015. That should just about bury GM for good. The only real profit is in their China division. GM should have been allowed to die. Look at the mess they have with their best selling vehicles killing people with shoddy designs and parts. I don't blame that on the UAW. It is GM was rotten to the core and the tax payers gave them another chance and they are blowing it.
"GM should have been allowed to die"...yes, that would have been the proper thing to do...using taxpayer money to save a mismanaged company, or an unprofitable company, is a crime against nature...let the chips fall where they may...Ford would have survived, GM would be gone, and someone, somewhere would have bought the worthwhile assets and brands that GM had...
And, if not, that is the way of capitalism...do we need to give gov't (our) money to Blackberry (Research in Motion, I believe) because they once RULED the (almost) smartphone market, and now they are almost nothing compared to Android and iPhone...I remember in 2009 when they were making headlines about how Obama was the first Pres to have a phone like a Blackberry so he could receive emails, etc...now, 5 years later, Blackberry is on the skids...
And, if it goes under, all those Blackberry employees will have to find other jobs, just like UAW workers (and salaried workers, too) if GM had closed...all we did was subsidize a Democrat voting block of voters by keeping GM alive, which, to me, is the highest corruption you can think of...
Whether Blackberry, Lehman Brothers, or GM, let the market rule and let the fallout occur...get rid of deadwood companies and let the business cycle go on...
Someone would have bought Cadillac (and got the workers, too), maybe Chevrolet (think Corvette) and GMC/Chevy Truck...maybe even Buick...the plants that made those cars would have had the workers keep their jobs...
That may sound good, and it may even make sense, but it would have been political suicide for several politicians.
And, we all know most politicians put their well-being at the top of the list. Everything else becomes secondary.
It's the way of the world...
Of course, letting GM die would then open up the door for compensating measures to enacted for those who don't practice our version of "capitalism" (haha) and bail out or subsidize their own makers, no?
It would be interesting to find out how much of the stock was bought by Chinese investors when the Government dumped it at a big loss. The Chinese already own a sizable portion of the GM operation in China. It is making money. I don't think the Chinese have the UAW to deal with.
The cars that GM sells in China...are they made here and exported, (UAW labor) or are there GM plants in China making cars for the "domestic" market (non-UAW, I would assume...I would bet that the phrase "labor union" has no translation into Chinese)...
Also, I read conflicting articles so I have no idea what goes on in China...first, I hear that they have 12 lane interstates where folks drive their Buicks at high speed to go places...then I read that China has numerous large cities with thousands of empty buildings (residential and commercial) and that their economy is on the verge of collapse...
Which one has any validity, as both are highly unlikely...
Just like it would be political suicide for whichever President is in office at the time to get rid of Social Security payouts. Not going to happen. Not on their watch!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Big unions supported obamacare. They got what they wanted. Now they want to shift their costs back to the companies for whom they work.
Odd that now they don't want to pay for obamacare when it's their money.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/05/27/unions-battle-employers-over-obamacare-costs-for-workers-n1843770
"Disputes between unions and employers over paying for new costs associated with the Affordable Care Act are roiling labor talks nationwide.
Unions and employers are tussling over who will pick up the tab for new mandates, such as coverage for dependent children to age 26, as well as future costs, such as a tax on premium health plans starting in 2018. The question is poised to become a significant point of tension as tens of thousands of labor contracts covering millions of workers expire in the next several years, with ACA-related cost increases ranging from 5 percent to 12.5 percent in current talks. "
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That ought to get the UAW adrenalin flowing. The D3 contracts are up in 2015. And the UAW is wanting to end the two tier wage scale. This will make it even harder to get past the militiants in the Union.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303749904579580604081967202?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj&url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303749904579580604081967202.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTTopStories
I thought they agreed to the two-tier scale? Funny how good times change their minds. That horse left the barn; time to accept it and move on, UAW.
The people that agreed to the two tier were making the big bucks and did not want to take a cut in pay. They get the $30 per hour and agreed that the newbies get $15 per hour and no pension only 401K.
PS
I think the company figured the high priced help would retire and everyone would be on the lower scale which tops about $19 per hour. I cannot imagine working along side someone doing the same job making twice the wage. That should never happen in a Union contract. All for one, One for all. Or dump the UAW. I look for a lot of Michigan UAW members to quit paying dues if those contracts don't get fixed.
In numerous companies, the heal insurance premium is paid by the company for the employee, but spouse and children premium payments are withheld from the employee's paycheck, i.e. paid by the employee...are UAW the same way?...I would be surprised if it was...
I think the new members have to pay for family HC premiums. The new contracts are NOTHING like the old gold plated ones. I hear a lot of grumbling on FB from new UAW workers wanting the good old days to return. I don't see it happening. If they go on strike as some of the militants claim, you will see more factories set up in Mexico. GM has moved most of their PU production to MX.
"Sean McAlinden, an economist at the Center for Automotive Research, said King was able to halt the union’s lengthy membership slide.
McAlinden said King made organizing “more important than it’s been to the UAW since the 1930s and ’40s. ... He’s a real thinker, but he was up against so many obstacles including the overall economy.”
King crisscrossed the globe, reaching out to unions to pressure foreign automakers to agree to fair bargaining. King points to big organizing gains among auto parts firms, casinos and higher education. At the end of last year, the union had 391,415 members — up 11 percent from when he took office. Still, the union’s membership is down substantially from the 1.5 million it had at its peak in 1979."
Next task for UAW: Elect a new president (Detroit News)
It's convention time. Blurbs from the Detroit Free Press.
"The most controversial proposal before convention delegates would increase monthly union dues from two hours of pay to two and a half hours. The increase would go into the UAW’s strike fund.
If approved, it would be the first percentage increase since 1967." (link)
In farewell speech, Bob King says UAW must go global, strengthen organizing.
Volkswagen labor official vows to back UAW organizing effort in Tennessee
If the UAW wages had kept up with inflation the dues would be inflation proof based on hourly wages. They have not, so the greedy union wants to stick it to the workers. I hope a bunch bail out in Michigan this next round and teach them a lesson on proper Union management. Wasting strike funds organizing should be addressed at this convention.
As for the Union goober from Germany, he is a die hard. If they held the election next month after the UAW sticks it to their members on dues, You can bet the UAW would lose by a bigger margin. The bigger issue is VW selling more cars. They are not doing that well here. If early reports for May are true they barely beat Ford.
This was interesting too:
"A core group of pro-union employees has asked the UAW to stop campaigning at the German automaker's Tuscaloosa County plant, because the current effort has gone on too long without success."
Pro-union employees at Alabama's Mercedes-Benz plant ask United Auto Workers union to halt campaign (al.com)
I think this says a lot about the UAW now and in the past.
"It's all about the image with the UAW, and it's not about the workers," Spitzley said.
"We're dedicated to the cause of furthering workers' rights," Garner said. "We just don't want to do it with the UAW."
I think if the Germans would set up their own Union, Southern Auto Worker with the help of the German unions, they may be able to get VW, BMW, MB and Audi factories. I have 46 years in 3 different Unions, and the UAW would not be on my list of ones to join.
Is it fair to say that the UAW was 100% necessary back in the 30s and 40s, and gave us many of the things we take for granted today...benefits, 40 hour work week, vacations, etc.
But, just like the buggy-whip makers, they became obsolete as time went on and society adopted many of their ideas...now, the UAW is as useless as vacuum tube makers and buggy whip makers, and should be dissolved, but maybe erect a monument to them for what they did in the past that really did improve society...but they have truly outlived their usefulness and should just go away, maybe with a little certificate that says "Job Well Done" so they can go away quietly...
I don't think unions could become any more obsolete than a police force might when the neighborhood gets quiet. Capitalism is somewhat rapacious and it treats labor as a commodity it must buy at the lowest possible price. I remember the story told to me by someone who worked on building the Golden Gate Bridge during the Great Depression. Bunches of men would gather under the bridge by the hiring station and wait for someone to fall off.
I see it as Government becoming so powerful and repressive they destroy any incentive for capitalism to work. Making private labor Unions and their workers unneeded. The only unions and their workers benefitting are associated with the government.
Speaking of over paid government union workers. Looks like the German union automakers are going to lose some of their jobs to lower priced NON Union auto workers in the USA.
(Reuters) - Carmaker BMW intends to cut 100 million euros ($136 million) of German labor costs annually from 2015 onwards, German local newspaper Muenchner Merkur reported on Monday on its web page, citing workers' representatives.
In March, BMW announced it would invest $1 billion to expand its U.S. plant in Spartanburg, South Carolina, increasing the number of people employed there by about 800 to 8,800, making it the group's biggest production facility by 2016.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/02/us-bmw-savings-idUSKBN0ED26P20140602
Interesting "fall-back" position:
"The United Auto Workers union plans to establish a local union to represent workers at the Volkswagen AG plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., and attempt to work with the German auto maker just months after a vote by workers to establish a union failed, according to press reports.
Union membership would be voluntary, but the local outpost would work with management to establish a "works council" to set up work rules at the plant similar to other VW plants around the world, according to a report in the Nashville Tennessean published Thursday morning. The UAW declined to comment immediately on its strategy but has scheduled a news conference for Thursday afternoon."
UAW to Open Office at Volkswagen's Chattanooga, Tenn., Plant (Wall St. Journal - may be a registration only link)
That may be a smart move by the UAW. When I went to work for Pacific Telephone in 1961 the CWA was our local union. I was not approached to join until I had worked there for 3 years. Not sure how much power they had at negotiations. They did go on strike in 1968 for 2 weeks. Nothing was gained. What they did do well was grievances that were legitimate. They protected my job when I got crossways with an incompetent supervisor that did not know his job very well. Of course I told him and he tried to get me fired. The CWA was very much like what VW has in mind. Maybe the UAW can leave their baseball bats in Detroit and form a civilized Union that benefit both the company and the workers. I am skeptical.
We have seen what happened when the workers were allowed a vote on becoming part of the UAW at VW. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/02/14/vw-workers-vote-against-uaw/5500897/
This came even though the Company did not object to the idea. But maybe if we took a look at what might have moved the members to vote against the UAW.
It is only my opinion but I believe it is because many people see the Union as just another level of management but one that does not provide a pay check but one that deducts from that pay check. The second might be the loss of contact with reality the union seems to have with the idea of competition. When you are trying to sell a product like a car and there are other manufacturers making and selling cars in the same area it can cause problems when you demand a wage increase when you believe the company can least afford a disruption in supply. If Toyota, Honda and Nissan happen to selling cars in the same area then the advantage can often go to the company that doesn't have to worry about a strike when they can least afford it.
Te second idea is self evident in the low number of unionized workers in the Private sector and the numbers seems to be getting lower every year. Some will blame the economy. But my for my second contention I can only address personal experience. I have been in the union and I have been in management and the latter was a lot less stressful than the former. As an example: My son joined the sheet metal workers union and became an apprentice. He was doing quite well and soon had lots of work all over the area. Finally he got a job at a place he really liked and was able to rent an apartment close to work. Then one day the union objected to him working on the site because they said there were too many apprentices and would have to hire another Journeyman or lay off an apprentice. Guess what happened.
Looks like VW was not unhappy with the workforce voting down the UAW. So much for the Union in Germany having much pull with what goes on in the rest of the World.
CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. -
More new jobs are coming to Tennessee thanks to the expansion of Volkswagen.
The company announced Monday morning it plans to expand it's U.S. operations by adding a new manufacturing line.
The automaker plans to build a new plant to manufacture a new mid-size SUV for the American market.
Volkswagen will make a $900-million investment in the facility which will create 2,000 jobs.
"Today is an exciting day not just for Chattanooga and Hamilton County but for all of Tennessee, and I want to thank Volkswagen for its significant long-term investment in our state," Haslam said. "The impact of this announcement goes far beyond the 2,000 new jobs because of the large multiplier effect of the automotive industry, and adding an additional manufacturing line and the National Research & Development and Planning Center sends a clear signal that Tennessee can compete with anyone in the global marketplace."
http://www.wcyb.com/news/vw-building-new-tn-plant-creating-2000-jobs/26941536
Senator Corker will be rubbing it in good now.
I give Chattanooga about 20 more years before you won't be able to tell where it ends and Atlanta begins.
That's good news for my nephew who's been working for an auto supplier for the last year there; they supply some interior bits for VW.
Corker was right on his call. I never believed the BS that VW America wanted the UAW. It was purely a move to satisfy the German Unions that are losing work to the USA, China and other countries.
"VW's investment is a vote of confidence in Tennessee and the supply base," said Tom Brewer, president of the Tennessee Automotive Manufacturers Association. "It means more high-quality jobs at the plant in Chattanooga and more jobs for the growing supply base across the state."
http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/cars/2014/07/14/volkwagen-expansion-chattanooga-crossblue-suv/12616743/
I don't think it will take 20 years, maybe 10...who woulda thunk when I came down here in 1971, and Atlanta was mostly confined to Fulton County inside I-285, that it would expand so much that Chattanooga, which was a 90 minute drive from Atlanta, would almost become a bedroom community for Atlanta...in 1975, Marietta (Cobb County) and Lilburn (Gwinnett County) were almost considered a day trip as almost no one lived there, and by 1979, Cobb County and Gwinnett County were filling up rapidly...
Forty three years later and you have managed to keep the overbearing UAW out of Atlanta. Good Job, they could use your talent in Michigan.
When I lived there from '74 to '77, going to Atlanta was a bit of a treat. I still get to Chattanooga once or twice a year and the last thing I want to do is drive in the mess down your way. Chattanooga is bad enough with the three interstates crossing, although the ten lanes help a lot now. In the old days, I'd fly there via Memphis just to avoid your airport.
We plan to drive down to TN in a couple of weeks in fact. I guess all the anti-UAW billboards will be plastered over with Gatlinburg ads now that the election is long past.
Don't they have Lookout Mountain ads anymore?
I recall in the 60s/70s cars returning from trips having Lookout Mountain ads pasted to their bumpers, front and rear. I don't know if the Lookout Mountain people pasted them on while you were parked or it was voluntary.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I spent a couple months going to a trade school at Western Union around 1975 in Atlanta. I remember staying at a nice hotel up around Marrietta, to get away from the city. It was a busy commute to downtown even then. I made a couple day trips to the big antique shops in Chattanooga. It seemed so dismal and dirty from what I recall. Lots of smoke in the air. The drive was pretty. I could live down there away from the crowds.
I am sure the expansion news is a direct result of the workers rejecting the UAW. As long as VWUSA treats their people decent, they will not have to worry about that leech union winning an election. There latest attempt to get VW workers to join seems like a real lame plan.
See Ruby Falls and See Rock City ads are still all over (not so many painted barns now though).
Haven't noticed any bumper ads in a while - the old ones were affixed with metal tabs around the bumpers, but the new molded bumpers don't lend themselves to that, and people would get mad if you put something adhesive on their car.
Most likely they sell bumper stickers in the gift shop instead (who knows, they could even be union printed).
And yeah, Chattanooga really cleaned up their act - that had started when I lived there. Still a lot of heavy industry around. It's been booming long before VW arrived though; DuPont has been there for decades. Cleaning up the riverfront and building the aquarium revitalized downtown. Misspoke about the freeways; there's three interstates that converge there.
Another thing I liked about Las Cruces - their fire plugs were cast by Mueller in Chattanooga. You see those a lot of places. Mueller is still there, but the fire plug casting is done in Alabama now. And yeah, some of Mueller's divisions have stuff made by union labor, even over in Alabama.
Ruby Falls is the place I was thinking about. I remember going there several times while in Atlanta.
My favorite memory of Atlanta was going to see Stone Mountain for the first time and driving there in the fog early one morning. As we got close the fog lifted and boom - there it was.
(Going by the Klan history, you could say it's an anti-Union site).
I think the new CrossBlue would be built in Mexico if the workers voted for the UAW.
At a celebration Tuesday afternoon for the expansion of Chattanooga's Volkswagen plant, Senator Bob Corker said talks were renewed on the SUV project three days after plant employees narrowly rejected the United Auto Workers on April 21.
On the podium were VW officials, Senator Corker, Senator Lamar Alexander, Governor Bill Haslam, Mayor Andy Berke and County Mayor Coppinger.
Both Governor Haslam and Senator Alexander said, "We would not be standing here today were it not for Bob Corker."
The former Chattanooga mayor in turn praised the role of Governor Haslam, saying he has been his friend for over 40 years "and I've never been prouder of him."
http://www.chattanoogan.com/2014/7/16/280423/Corker-Says-Talks-On-VW-Expansion.aspx
VW has a number of problems these days and the UAW isn't even the biggest one. IMHO their vehicles are much less appealing than they were in the mid 00's.
The "Americanized" Passat and Jetta leave me cold- to my eyes they are just as boring as a Camry...
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Isn't that what Americans want Boring sedans? And if it handles and gets great mileage, that is a big plus. I have never had a vehicle that was so comfortable driving 650 miles straight with two potty stops, than our Touareg TDI. No stress over getting to the next town with a gas station. Cruise all day 75-80 MPH and still get near 30 MPG. The US or Japan has nothing in that league. Americans are real slow to catch on.
>
Could be...I like the current Passat enough that I'd check one out if I was in the market for a new car. Not because it's boring, but because it finally looks big enough for my preferences. While handling and mileage are nice bonuses, I gotta go with comfort first. If it's not comfortable to me, then it's useless no matter how economical it is, or how well it performs.
One of my friends had a 2001.5 Passat sedan that I rode in a few times. That was a nice car...a bit smaller than I'm used to, but it made pretty good use of its interior room. A comfy compact, in my opinion. Seemed to have nice, upscale interior appointments as well. However, it was also pretty expensive, as I recall.
I'm sure they've cut some corners with the newer models, to hold the line on prices, so the current one probably isn't as nice inside as that 2001.5 was.
...but with German repair prices and reliablity. No thanks. At least in the past they were fun to drive and had beautiful interiors. Now why would you buy one?
I've had very few problems with my BMWs, but the lack of a decent VW dealer in my area is another reason I'm not seriously considering a GTI...s
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
My first day here in 1971, the folks who picked me up at the airport took me to climb Stone Mountain...it was over 90 degrees, I had long pants and zip up boots (the thing to wear back then)...talk about stupid...it was my first day down south...
VW has a ways to go to catch up with their neighbors in Greer, at least in the export game. And SC is a RTW state and there's few UAW workers at BMW there. (autoblog.com)
I think the Germans are looking at the USA to get away from the Unions in their home country. I don't think VWUSA was in the least bit unhappy their workforce rejected the UAW. I wonder how the German Unions react to all the BMW SUVs being built in the USA. Or are they happy building much of the components?
BMW and MB first opened plants in the US to avoid the chicken tax not the unions in Germany. They realized that they could not compete in the SUV market with a 25% penalty and that North America was really the only market for those vehicles. Other than the new C class, BMW and MB don't make anything other SUV's here in North America.
Interestingly enough, the US based German plants build about 1/10th the number of cars that they do in Germany which suggests that even with the unions, they are happy with the profits of the German plants.