General Intake / Exhaust Mods

elmoblatch1

Thanks so much for the detailed post !!!

Do you work on these vehicles for a living, or this just info that you have picked up over the years ?

bigfur

my mileage went up from 15-17 on my last tank, BUT it was only a half tank (truck needed a wash) so i think if i used a whole tank it wouldnt have changed much.
2001 Chev silverado 1500 4X4 5.3L

elmoblatch1

Just filled up the tank today, w/o K & N air filter on this tank, different gas station & a little highway driving mixed in ( 50 miles ).

Up to 18 mpg. I think this weekend I will disconnect the battery for a few minutes to re-set the computer, put the K & N air filter back in & see what happens.

Will keep you posted.

PS-

There is a poster on the Liberty or Liberty problems board with a question about dust getting in the vehicle. Can you toggle on over & see if you can offer some help ?

Thanks again for your help-

elmoblatch1

I pulled the negative battery terminal for 5 minutes or so today. Reloaded the K & N air filter and filled up at the same gas station as last week.

I have a 500 mile trip coming up right after Thanksgiving & a 700 mile trip the week after.

I will report back on mpg with K & N on board.

Thanks again for the detailed posts.

elmoblatch1

I check the tires over regularly. I have not put a tire gauge on any of them. Just had the oil changes recently & they checked the tire pressure. I will check all 4 tires before my next trip. I have not refilled on the new tank of gas yet, only 130 mile in...seems like it is using a little less gas, but hard to know for sure until the next fill up.

bigfur

my numbers may be a lil skewed. I just noticed this morning that my engine has a MAJOR tick in it (at 39K). As some of you may recall i have a 2001 silverado, and no its not the "normal" cold engine tick that all the V8s have. I think my mileage might be down some cuz of whatever this problem really is.

elmoblatch1

Took my 2003 Jeep Liberty on it's first highway trip ( about 500 miles round trip ). Got no better than 21 mpg each way. Did not use the 4wd, no a/c used, averaged about 70 mph the whole way, no cruise control.

The 21 mph is what the Jeep was rated on the highway, so I am disappointed that the K & N Air Filter could not improve on that.

Still getting about 17 mpg around town, 18 mpg in a good week.

Overall, very disappointed with the lack of improved mpg from the K & N air filter.

I have pulled the battery cable after installation so that is not the problem.

the_big_h

the engine sounds cooler when you hit the throttle doesn't it? ;-)

bigfur

we need to keep in mind that K&N never said themselves that it would increase mileage does it?

driftracer

that's why I'm not understanding the quantum physics-level of mileage investigation...there was no claim of improved mileage that I've ever seen (and I used to sell K&N products in my stores).

The claims are a slight power improvement and the biggest issue - no filter replacements forever. Of course, there's that cool sound, which is priceless to me.

bigfur

made a HUGE differance in sound going from just the filter to the FIPK with the dual exhaust out the back of my truck...LOVE IT!

driftracer

I agree on all counts!

elmoblatch1

You are correct, K & N does not promote higher mpg, but the testimonials sure do. I don't beat on the Jeep & do not go 4-wheeling. I do use the 4WD, but only on snow/ice when the 2wd is not enough traction.

I have another highway trip coming up...about 700 miles round trip. Hope to hit at least 21mpg & maybe a little more.

Any chance that using 89 or 91 octane instead of 87 octane will make a difference ?

Also, what about a can of STP fuel injector cleaner ? My Jeep only has about 4,500 miles on it, so I don't know how much that will help.

elmoblatch1

How much difference in mpg ( approx ) will it make driving 65mph ( about 2,100 rpm ) vs 70
mph ( about 2,400 rpm ) ??

Thanks in advance-

stever

Frankly, if K&N puts testimonials up on their website touting mpg increases that are not reproduceable or otherwise "officially" endorsed, that'd put K&N in the same league as Tornado, SwirlAWhirl and all those other worthless gas-saving gizmos imho. I thought they were sticking to the 2 hp, reusable claims?

And someone better patent a V8 rumble engine sound device for the day that hybrids rule so people can spend a few bucks on a gizmo attached to the throttle so you can pretend your electric cruiser has a little GTO in it :-)

Steve, Host

bigfur

My mileage hasnt improved, but it hasnt gone down either, but i definatly love the extra power and the sound it gives.
As for a hybrid...no thanks!

stever

You don't fool me one bit. I know you're riding that Hog to Québec all the time to get your quiche fix ;-)

Steve, Host

bigfur

thru some of my catalogs and in them they listed K&N as a fuel saving add on. Im guessing that the person who writes for the magazine is writing the add cuz i have never heard K&N claim that. Although it would explain why everyone keeps expecting better mpg.

stever

Maybe some of their stuff is? But we're focusing on the air filters in here.

Steve, Host

elmoblatch1

to this tank & will report back after 700 mile road trip.

For $1.59 at NAPA, hard to go wrong.

bigfur

Im just trying to understand where people who are EXPECTING a mpg gain are getting this from. From K&N i have never seen them say it will get you better MPG. It has always been testomony or in an ad. That is the only reason i brought it up.

stever

K&N did say improved mpg was a benefit at one time on their webpage, I'm pretty sure (or maybe it was in older brochures I used to have around here?).

Most people around Town Hall seem to think they are going to get whiplash performance gains and better mpg with one, so there probably was some marketing along those lines somewhere to generate the word of mouth. Funny how it's always seat of the pants testing and dyno tests are few and far between.

Steve, Host

driftracer

for that promised 38% mileage and power gain from my Tornado....

(Sarcasm)

driftracer

is total bunk - it's a whirlygig that gets moved by air flowing through your primary intake tube. It doesn't do anything but hang out and spin.

The concept that it could IMPROVE anything is beyond my comprehension. In fact, because it actually restricts airflow, it should hurt performance and mileage, not help it. It isn't like there's a motor in the thing "helping" the air move.

Even if there was a motor, it would mess with the Mass Air Flow (MAF) and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor readings, causing some drivability problems - the speed that the thing rotates varies with intake air speed, so readings from these two sensors wouldn't be continually accurate.

Not me, sorry.

renegaded - check out your Liberty's air supply - you may be able to remove the intake tube from the hood slit and let the airbox draw air from below, or you could install a home-made tube that draws air from below the radiator.

stever

Check out The accessories to improve mileage and extend engine life discussion for the rap on swirly gizmos.

And maybe ask yourself why the manufacturers don't install one in every new car and truck so they can more easily meet the CAFE requirements.

Steve, Host

driftracer

was the wrong term to use - my comparison meant that it doesn't DO anything, agreeing with your information - it's not like there's a motor and fan that moves air faster or something.

Snake oil, I say!

obyone

Have a '91 Nissan Hardbody with the tornado installed. At the time we also installed in a Ford 250 and 150 van. Mileage increase? nope More power? nope. We also changed the stock air filters with K&N. Same results cept now someone has to clean those things....and we know how that goes with employees.....

elmoblatch1

And the results were not better than 21 mpg.

I am going to check the K & N website...I remember reading testimonials for improved mpg.

Not sure if it was K & N or another website.

Either way, no improvement to MPG with K & N for my Jeep Liberty. Very disappointed. Would not have purchased the product if I knew that it did nothing for mpg.

driftracer

I've purchased each of mine because they pay for themselves after what would be 2-3 filter changes and the sound cool. You never have to change your filter as long as you own the vehicle - that's worth a couple of hundred dollars per vehicle if you maintain them properly and replace a paper element when it gets dirty.

I never considered mileage, nor would I.

odie6l

I got the tornado summer '02 and have had it in my '01 Escape XLT since. When the FORD service department installed it during my 15k mile service they decided to place the escape on their dyno pre & post install. Pre = 201hp at max throttle, Post = 215hp at max throttle. I also saw the result 1st hand because the tech let me stand there and watch the test. So in fact it does increase the hp on my '01 Escape.
  As for the MPG's, I've been keeping a little log bog of every fill-up I do. Pre install I was hanging around the 17-18 city / 21-22 hwy, Post install I'm pushing 23-24 city / 25-27 hwy. every now and then I take a 8 1/2 hour drive straight down I-81/I-40 from Hershey/Harrisburg,PA to Knoxville/Loudon,TN, when I do this drive (to visit relatives) I only have stop 3 times for fuel, and I get a strong 28-29 mpg. Now this is pure highway driving with a mix of cruise control and truck drifting.
  I also think because of having it installed it helped the engine because I have NOT had the Stall problem that other '01 owner's have had, I have not stalled once.

Odie
My Homepage

driftracer

obyone

Crown Limited....much better than the regular flavored Crown...even better than the Crown Reserve....and only available in Canada and Europe.

Oh yeah...did the Explorer have a K&N? If not, the post should be deleted for being off topic...lmao.

driftracer

someone would drop that kind of cash (dyno time is usually $75-100 an hour) for a test like this. I also don't believe the results - sorry.

The same test was run, with me present, at LaRocca performance at Old Bridge, NJ (I work for Primedia). We ran an Explorer, an '89 Mustang 5.0, and a '98 Cobra (for 5.0 Magazine) on a dyno, testing about 6 different intake systems and devices.

The Tornado showed no gains whatsoever - in fact, on the Explorer, the engine lost power, the Mustangs broke even - no effect.

driftracer

driftracer

Slick 50 since 1987. I noticed that the engine was quieter after start-up on my 65,000 mile Toyota.

That convinced me that something was different - I've never paid much attention to surveys, statistics and testimonials - any company can pay anyone to say anything. Any company can also test products where the results come out in their favor.

I follow my Dad's advice - believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see.

bigfur

Had a Tornado system in my truck (got it free) 01 silverado 1500 5.3 with a full intake system (tubes and all not just the filter) the tornado actually allowed LESS air thru and caused my idle to get screwed up and caused a stall in the engine. Took it out, all better. As for the comment about being put on a dyno, someone correct me if im wrong, but he said he had it done at a FORD DEALER. Has anyone else here ever seen a dyno in a dealership???? i sure havent. Also my service manager told me not to EVER put one in my truck cuz it "screws up the computer". I agree it might work on some vehicals, just not on mine.

obyone

dealership knowing anything about dynos? That's real funny......screws up the computer....lol

He'd also say that K&N voids the warranty on the engine too...

driftracer

and New Jersey have basic dynos for emissions testing - they read basic HP and torque figures.

They aren't like the dynos that big time engine tuners have, but they perform the basic duty.

Every dealership, and most private shops, in these two states have dynos.

driftracer

the "rough" dynos only do basic measurements so the emissions tests can be conducted at given rpms.

To use a real dyno, you need to go to an engine tuning shop.

bigfur

Well considering when i took the tornado out my stall went away with my rough idle, id have to say he might be right. As for th dyno, i doubt ANY dealer in any part of the world would put a car up there just to test what a tornado thing does for...dont see it happening.

bigfur

looks like this is dead now.

obyone

Can't figure it being of any use unless installed just before the throttle body. Come to think of it can't see it being of any use being installed there either.

the_big_h

latest update: added a K&N drop-in filter to my 91 RX-7.

holy cow I can hear the 'whoosh' sound of air being sucked in now! definitely a nice sound mod!

can't tell of any power increase, since I haven't got a chance to let her loose yet.

won't find out about gas mileage improvement until after a few tanks, stay tuned.

bigfur

equals RIP OFF!!! Hooked up a computer to my truck before and after i had one installed (right before the throttle body). The computer showed slow 1/4mile times, slower 0-60 times, and less horsepower. Not a perfect machine being it was just a lil computer type thing you clipped on your windsheild, but once again, no power improvment.

stever

Not exactly topical, but it may be of interest:

Fuel-Saving Gadgets Put To The Test (KIRO)

Steve, Host

bigfur

True, but a guy i know DID get an inproement on a 99 Denali. Granted that has the 5.7 Vortec engine, but it has done nothing for me. Took my truck to Florida (just moved from MN) didnt see but about a 3mpg gain from my exhaust. K&N full intake did nothing for mileage, only thing so far that has been done anything for mileage was the exhaust.

stever

My wonderful wife who never wastes words <g> and I write down every tank and mileage in our cars.

Theoretically I can spot trends and if the mpg goes south, I can check the air, air filter, plugs, etc. Mostly it stays about the same after the cars break in good.

So I have a good baseline for testing a Tornado or other gizmo... I just think if they were any good, the manufacturers would be all over them trying to meet their CAFE standards.

Steve, Host

obyone

Installed one on my 91 Nissan truck. 93 Ford 250 van. Made absolutely no difference in milage or power. Didn't work too well as a frisbee either.

Took the airaid intake off of the Denali as the resonation was way too loud. More like a lot of noise but going no where. Left the K&N on though. When I compared the airaid and the K&N, the airaid appears more restrictive making me guess that's where the resonation is coming from. I have the FIPK on the Silverado and other than a little intake noise don't have much of any resonation.

BTW, don't think anything can help that '99-'00 Denali with the 5.7. Dumped it 6 months short of the end of its lease for a '02 with the 6.0. Can you imagine, it came with 16" rims which looked ridiculous on something that big.

bigfur

Still love my K&N after a couple monthes!

highender

has a supercharger on and K&N ....I do get 16 to 17 freeway....18 if I insist on 55 mph.

the aftermarket shop that did the car said the K&N does help.....

but I think it is negligible on some cars....and for my sub...it is already receiving forced air, so do not know the true advantage of K&N.

however, if your car already receives enough air flow to the engine, I think the K&N would do little. Then, just change your regular filter every 10,000 to 15,000 miles.

Steve: yeah, some on the other forums said the K&N would foul up the MAS (mass air flow sensor).......have you heard anything to validate it...?? Or is it too zealous oiling?