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Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
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In this case, I think the domestics get hurt by not being considered as separate companies. Their rate of improvement in the Consumer Reports reliability surveys is not the same. Ford is ahead of GM, which is ahead of Chrysler. Even the magazine admitted in the latest Auto Issue that, when it comes to reliability, Ford is pulling away from GM and Chrysler.
Mr_Shiftright: They could "fire their customers" like Cadillac and Corvette is doing as we speak now, and like Oldsmobile and Thunderbird tried to do and failed to do.
Surviving requires imagination. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of it in Big Three boardrooms at the moment. They sit at big oak tables, they wear nice suits, they talk great talk----but comes the accounting day?
This is extremely difficult to do in the American auto market. Harley was (and is) somewhat of a niche product, so it could fire one set of customers to gain new ones. Same with the Corvette and Cadillac.
Ford and Chevrolet are not niche brands...they have to appeal to a broad base of customers to stay in business. They can't really "fire" one set of customers and try to appeal to new ones, because they are competing with other mainstream brands - Honda and Toyota and Nissan. Both divisions must appeal to as many people as possible. They need to compete head-on with the best of the Japanese, and they must do this by continuing to improve reliability while bringing forth more products with greater eye-appeal (that aren't pickups or retro-styled ponycars).
It's much more than producing our own cars and grow our own crops.
I won't necessarily argue with your position ... but it looks like alot of '70s cars to me, in addition to the stang, at least from that angle.
edit: hmmm.. pic doesn't seem to be working.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Celica_ra28.jpg
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We could also place tariffs on foreign products to increase American jobs. It has been done before. We could increase the price of food exported to help cover our losses. There is nothing we can't do because we have the power to do what we want. There are a lot of things we shouldn't do but that hasn't always stopped the US in the past. How does Japan support their rice industry? They don't import American rice. Is it working for Japan?
We all know what tools the US has because we all know why Japan move their factories here in the first place. They were afraid of Quotas. If the economy continues to slide or if unemployment hits any all time highs I predict protectionism will rear its head. Not because it is the best thing for he world but because it is the easiest solution short term. Just ask yourself this. How did France protect its Auto industry when the Asian cars were flooding into the US back in the 70s and 80s. Quotas, they could only import one Asian car for every three French cars that were sold. Did it work? Gave the French a breather until being a member of the EU made that practice obsolete.
We would also ask if maybe the US stopped using its own oil just to use up the oil in the mid east and save our reserves for when they ran out? It just all seamed so clear back then.
I just wonder what the First and Second quarter sales of new vehicles will be? If auto manufacturing is hit as hard as housing can anyone imagine how hard hit even the foreign manufacturers will be? The Average house in Orange county took a $100,000.00 hit between last year and this year. That is down about 25%. Can you picture Toyota or Honda taking a 25% hit between a 2007 Accord and a 2008? Is there room for GM to lower the price on a Malibu by 25%? I just don't think anyone will be expanding market share in 2008. What do you think Chosen will do if Nissan takes a 25% dive this year? If car repos are up 14 percent now what happens when they hit 25 percent? Those cars made in India may start looking pretty good by this coming Fall.
So I don't think this discussion is out of the realm of possibility. What we might be having trouble with is thinking of it as a CONSCIOUS decision. But what if it were made for us?
I don't think the UK planned to wipe out its auto industry in a 10-15 year time frame....but they did.
And their motorcycle indust, once dominant in the world, evaporated even faster than that. The Honda 750 came out and that was that. Couple more years, down the drain for all the two-wheelers.
too many people are ready to panic.
Ask yourself this: why is it that gm and ford can compete head to head with hon/toy/nissan in the rest of the world but get trump in their own backyard?
Quotas is one of the reasons transplants are here, the ability to avoid currency fluctuation is just as important. It is also a whole lot easier to implement the just in time manufacturing system where the market is. Why is everybody rushing to build in china & india?
Forgive me if you've heard this analogy:
"At first I thought the car company I worked for was like a train going down the track. The CEO was in the locomotive's driver's seat, and just behind him, in the first car, the board of directors, who passed down the CEO's recommendations to those of us in the back cars.
Then I decided, no, it's more like the CEO and the Board are ALL in the locomotive, struggling for the controls.
Now I've decided that there is NO ONE in the locomotive, that the throttle is tied with a rope, and the CEO and the board are in the first car having drinks"
You are right, Japanese government did try to protect the Japanese rice farmers with a combination of import tarriffs as well as guaranteed floor prices. The result? Very expensive rice, which (due to restriction on imports) made consumers opt for wheat based food items (bread, noodles etc). Rice consumption in Japan has thus declined, and the farmers are probably even worse off than where they would have been in a more open market. Wheat importers, meanwhile, have enormously benefited from this change in eating habits....
So protectionism has some unintended consequences, which most of the time cause it to fail in achieving the desired objective.
Just thought it might be interesting for readers here....
Well, then I guess they must be doing SOMETHING right. I find it AMAZING that one avenue can be successful, and another showing signs of a turnaround, yet YOU think the whole operation is going to hell in a handbasket. GM for one is getting rave reviews for their newest models (Malibu, CTS, G8, Lambda CUV's) won some really good concessions from the UAW, and have more promising products coming up (CTS coupe, Solstice coupe, Volt, and other E-flex variants).
All you need is for any of this promising new models to self-destruct in the field with reliability issues and the whole balloon pops, doesn't it?
So without significant INTERNAL changes in the Big Three, the cars they produce in any given year don't necessarily promise success in the long run, IMO.
It's not ME that says it's all going to hell in a hand basket. The numbers are right out there on the table. It's not my opinion or prejudice or desire or despair--it's just "what is".
Can it turn around? Sure! Will it?
who knows at this point?
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,592 108,858 -1.2% 211,964 212,960 -0.5%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 161,145 199,553 -19.2% 307,699 340,065 -9.5%
memo: Saab. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,734 2,221 -21.9% 3,506 4,583 -23.5%
Ford Motor Company 196,060 210,014 -6.6% 355,336 375,682 -5.4%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64,333 70,964 -9.3% 114,409 126,814 -9.8%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131,727 139,050 -5.3% 240,927 248,868 -3.2%
memo: Jaguar. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,063 1,191 -10.7% 1,727 2,581 -33.1%
memo: Land Rover. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2,819 3,106 -9.2% 5,678 6,539 -13.2%
memo: Volvo. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7,505 8,468 -11.4% 15,541 16,287 -4.6%
Chrysler LLC 150,093 174,506 -14.0% 287,485 330,814 -13.1%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49,494 43,631 13.4% 92,661 77,131 20.1%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100,599 130,875 -23.1% 194,824 253,683 -23.2%
Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. 182,169 187,330 -2.8% 354,018 363,180 -2.5%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 101,926 106,429 -4.2% 196,512 206,685 -4.9%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 80,243 80,901 -0.8% 157,506 156,495 0.6%
American Honda Motor Co. Inc. 115,397 110,026 4.9% 213,908 210,816 1.5%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 62,840 60,505 3.9% 118,185 113,917 3.7%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 52,557 49,521 6.1% 95,723 96,899 -1.2%
Nissan North America Inc. 86,219 85,218 1.2% 162,824 167,862 -3.0%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 49,335 48,445 1.8% 94,761 97,244 -2.6%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36,884 36,773 0.3% 68,063 70,618 -3.6%
Volkswagen Group of America Inc. 22,939 23,370 -1.8% 44,135 46,621 -5.3%
Audi . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6,152 6,609 -6.9% 12,570 13,008 -3.4%
Volkswagen. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16,556 16,367 1.2% 30,967 32,977 -6.1%
Bentley . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 231 394 -41.4% 598 636 -6.0%
Mitsubishi Motors N. A., Inc. 9,105 9,726 -6.4% 16,331 19,109 -14.5%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7,356 6,178 19.1% 13,098 12,281 6.7%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,749 3,548 -50.7% 3,233 6,828 -52.7%
Mazda Motor of America Inc. 23,548 22,067 6.7% 44,760 41,332 8.3%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14,663 15,826 -7.3% 28,495 29,957 -4.9%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,885 6,241 42.4% 16,265 11,375 43.0%
Hyundai Motor America 31,090 34,500 -9.9% 52,542 62,221 -15.6%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20,903 23,336 -10.4% 35,792 41,872 -14.5%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,187 11,164 -8.8% 16,750 20,349 -17.7%
BMW of North America Inc. 24,248 24,677 -1.7% 41,241 46,511 -11.3%
BMW . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 20,775 22,274 -6.7% 35,250 42,035 -16.1%
Mini . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3,415 2,368 44.2% 5,875 4,418 33.0%
Rolls Royce . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58 35 65.7% 116 58 100.0%
Mercedes-Benz USA 18,589 17,334 7.2% 36,877 34,433 7.1%
Mercedes-Benz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18,574 17,319 7.2% 36,855 34,403 7.1%
Maybach [est]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 15 0.0% 22 30 -26.7%
Subaru of America Inc. 12,907 12,875 0.2% 24,196 24,949 -3.0%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8,897 8,723 2.0% 16,874 16,665 1.3%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4,010 4,152 -3.4% 7,322 8,284 -11.6%
Kia Motors America Inc. 21,988 23,512 -6.5% 43,343 46,036 -5.8%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,998 10,318 6.6% 22,750 18,983 19.8%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10,990 13,194 -16.7% 20,593 27,053 -23.9%
Isuzu Motors America Inc. 790 559 41.3% 1,223 1,059 15.5%
American Suzuki Motor Corp. 8,796 8,585 2.5% 15,916 16,764 -5.1%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,236 3,285 -62.4% 2,493 6,792 -63.3%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7,560 5,300 42.6% 13,423 9,972 34.6%
Porsche Cars N.A. Inc. 1,715 1,967 -12.8% 4,310 4,951 -12.9%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 960 1,607 -40.3% 2,547 3,187 -20.1%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 755 360 109.7% 1,763 1,764 -0.1%
Smart USA 1,500 0 NA 1,500 0 NA
Ferrari of N.A. Inc. 135 116 16.4% 240 251 -4.4%
Maserati of N.A. Inc. 211 136 55.1% 335 309 8.4%
PASSENGER CARS 555,299 560,722 -1.0% 1,050,660 1,067,663 -1.6%
LIGHT TRUCKS 620,937 694,207 -10.6% 1,169,523 1,278,262 -8.5
General Motors Corp. 268,737 308,411 -12.9% 519,663 553,025 -6.0%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 107,592 108,858 -1.2% 211,964 212,960 -0.5%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 161,145 199,553 -19.2% 307,699 340,065 -9.5%
memo: Saab. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1,734 2,221 -21.9% 3,506 4,583 -23.5%
Ford Motor Company 196,060 210,014 -6.6% 355,336 375,682 -5.4%
Total Cars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64,333 70,964 -9.3% 114,409 126,814 -9.8%
Total Light Trucks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 131,727 139,050 -5.3% 240,927 248,868 -3.2%
memo: Jaguar. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . %
TOTAL LIGHT VEHICLE SALES 1,176,236 1,254,929 -6.3% 2,220,183 2,345,925 -5.4%
As you can see (I hope) if you take Saab out of the equation, GM's CAR sales are flat. Take the PAG out of the equation, and Ford's down about 8%, yet Chrysler is up 20%!!! ALL JAPANESE and KOREAN MFR.'s except Honda, Kia, Subaru, and Mitsu. are DOWN, DOWN, DOWN. (CAR sales only).
Light truck sales are what is dragging everybody else down.
P.S., this is calendar yr 2008 (Jan+Feb??) only.
But you know, that is only a "moment in time". If you graph it all out from 1975, the picture is pretty clear as to what is happening.
The USA is a very mature market, so trends happen slowly. You need to look at a large body of time to plot anything meaningful, either negative or positive.
In 1975, we had ABC,NBC,CBS, and a bunch of ind. stations. Now, we add Fox and the CW, plus all the cable TV stations, and the ratings bogie from 1975 gets thrown out the window, just as the market share bogie can be thrown out the window now. Case and point:
Many may argue that Seinfeld was a more popular show than MASH, yet the final episode of MASH is the most watched show EVER!!! I'll bet the final episode of Seinfeld, ...Raymond, and Friends aren't in the top 10. Cable TV can be blamed for that.
In spite of the fact that the Big 3 had quality issues, the [non-permissible content removed] Big 3 were minor players in 1975. It is safe to assume that they would've made intriguing cars that would've sold over the years. People's tastes change. Who'd have thought that a Suburban would be a vehicle people trip all over themselves to buy in 1975??? I don't think you'd see more than a 4-6 point difference in market share if the Big 3 did a better job 30 years ago.
At the last line in this about the Enclave.
True, they weren't competing in trucks or big sedans, but as it turns out, the big sedans were the dinosaurs of their age anyway, and they were prevented from competing on big trucks by embargo.
Also the Japanese were making great strides in emissions technology. When GM complained that they couldn't get their V-8 engines to pass the new smog regulations, the Japanese took a Chevy V-8 and did it for them. GM was really PO'd at that, too.
I would have bet every chip in my stack on the Japanese in 1975.
The motto I remember reading in car magazines back then was "When the EPA issues new regulations, the Big Three call their lawyers and the Japanese call their engineers"
The chickens have come home to roost I guess.
In trying to establish a Japanese-market foothold for Lexus, Toyota has seemingly fallen prey to the same tactic that made the Cadillac Cimmaron such a maroon. When trying to launch a brand, especially an upscale brand, it's not advisable to rebadge existing models and crank up the price. It doesn't seem to matter how good the car is, or how swanky the new $10-million-a-pop showroom is, once an Altezza, always an Altezza, and paying 20 percent more for the same car with a different logo is rightfully galling.
(Speaking about the Lexus branded "Altezza")
Overpriced is still smarter than overpriced and lousy :P
I would agree, except Honda didn't get lucky. That was plain old excellent ingenuity, and Honda didn't even have to be ready until 1980, as I was told all foreign mfr's didn't have to meet our safety and emission requirements until 1980. I do believe that the Big 3 spent far too long crying about them instead of engineering results. If you look at ALL cars built between 1975-1984, both foreign and domestic, they were slow and didn't have the "panache" of their predecessors from the '50's and '60's. By the late '80's early '90's things had begun to change for the better (somewhat) as far as performance and styling, but people began buying SUV's for their utility (and panache). Seeing all the $$$$$ the Big 3 could make, and cheaply, they went for it I'd say THIS is when the chickens came home, but the Big 3 were too busy making money.
SUV sales have only been tanking for 3,4 years. Now that the Big 3 have been hit where it counts (the pocketbook), they are starting to turn it around. It's only been about 18 months, but I've seen some good things.
I wonder how much of that is because they really had no other option. As foreign companies would they be able to gain anything by "calling their lawyers"? If the Japanese version of EPA (or any other regulatory agency) issues regulations, do the Japanese companies then call the lawyers or the engineers? What do American companies do when regulations are issued in foreign markkets?
I'm not an economist, so the discussion of whether an American built "foreign" car -Toyota built in Ohio - is worse than a foreign built "American" car - Mexican built Ford - does not hinge on where the corporate profits go. For me, if I'm the guy in Ohio with three kids to feed, I love Toyota; If I'm the guy that got the letter saying my plant is closing and my job going to Mexico, I never buy another Ford product as long as I live.
As a consumer, I spent the late 70's buying American cars - If you remember, back then we bought cars by the pound and by the inch, and I could not justify buying a tiny Honda for the same money as my Olds... besides, there were all the stories of how long you would have to wait for a part if you needed to fix the Japanese car... then there was the issue of "having" to accept what was on the dealer's lot - there were more choices among the big three.... and of course, the "new car smell' was different. LOL.
In the 80's I became a confirmed Olds buyer - I used to kid my dealer that I wasn't buying cars, I was buying them. Olds got better, and I bought my Intrigue.... the best American sedan from my point of view. Then they killed Olds. My dealer went to Chevy, and I was not impressed by anything Chevy sold... The IMPALA??? I think not.
Now I drive a foreign car, (really foreign) and in the household are two built in America Toyotas and a Dodge Neon. Unfortunately, none of these decisions was made from a nationalistic POV; On the high end, I drove everything that appealed - no American car had a manual tranny available. The Toyotas? Bought the first because of reliability and dealer proximity... was a tossup between that and an Accord. The second was a no brainer, since the first worked out. The Neon? Needed something cheap that I could get to the train station, leave there all day, and not be stressed out at the beating it would take. It is not an enjoyable driving experience.
The point (finally) is that I see industry as necessary, heavy industry as critical, but those companies have to produce - and it is no accident that the American consumer has voted with the checkbook - No conspiracy, just better products, even with a price difference. Quality speaks loudest.
Why prop up "Found On Road Dead?" If they cut production cost by moving to Mexico, but the finished product is still outsold 2 or 3 to one by the Japanese or the Koreans, then the market has spoken. If GM "thinks" that I'm kidding when I say that I really, really want a high performing, comfortable, fuel efficient, and stylish vehicle, then don't be surprised when I go buy a Mini, or a Subie. They all made a bet - We can move more Escalades, at bigger profits, for EVER.... well, no.
From today on money.cnn:
The 30-year old Carter, who earns $7 an hour making car parts for a Hyundai factory near Montgomery, Ala., spends $65 a week on gas, double what it cost just a few years ago.
Paying $30 more for gas out of a $240 paycheck makes a big difference.
"Going out to eat, going to the movies, you can't do stuff like that," says Carter, filling up his Firebird at a BP station in Camden, a quiet southern town 80 miles southwest of Montgomery. "You're working for gas now."
Carter, and other residents that live around Camden, are having a particularly hard time - they devote more of their budget for gas than anyone else in the United States.
So, like Americans everywhere, people here are cutting back on spending, and that's threatening to send - or may have already sent - a shaky economy into recession.
For people like Carrie Frye, 33, a mother who commutes 70 miles each day, the choice is about much more than simply cutting back on entertainment.
Frye works at a factory in Selma, Ala., making lawn chair cushions. If she makes her production quota, she might bring in $329 a week. If not, it's $220. Either way, she says the $60 a week she now spends in gas comes out of money for food, the doctor, and buying clothes for her kids.
"I just hope they don't grow that fast," she says, filling her tank of her Jeep Cherokee at the Camden BP.
My Nickel: Just returning from a round trip from Indiana to W. Palm Beach in My 4X4 Chevy. I noticed almost nobody along the coasts buys American cars. Look at this country and then keep sending all your money to Japan and S. Korea while their also imported subsuppliers set up shop here and pay Americans $7 an hour to make the components for their cars. What a wonderful world we have now.
Did anyone hear the guest commentator on Meet the Press on Easter Morning say that the devalued dollar is helping America's exports. Then he/she followed by saying that 'see how Honda and Toyota are building factories here'. Is anybody dumb enough to believe that a Honda factory in America is America exporting cars? It is the colonization of America. Honda uses our imported energy, our people, raw materials, sewer system, landfill, and land, in a property tax free factory, to build cars to sell here in avoidance of paying tariffs to instead ship them into America. We get only the lowest tiers of jobs from the Japanese owners. 85% of the value of the car ends up back in Japan or S. Korea. Now they get their money while polluting our air with their factories.
Scott
They are spending $3000+ per year on gas, if they were to get cars with 50% better hwy mileage they'd save $1000 per year. If the cost to trade was $2000 that would mean a 2 year payback...neglecting interest.
There also may be an option to move closer to the job...and then maybe spend the 2 hours per day formerly spent commuting working at a second job...even at minimum wage they would net another $2500+ per year from that. That would mean $5500 per year total between the gas savings and the extra income...a pretty significant swing for someone earning $14,000 per year.
There also may be an option to move closer to the job...and then maybe spend the 2 hours per day formerly spent commuting working at a second job...even at minimum wage they would net another $2500+ per year from that. That would mean $5500 per year total between the gas savings and the extra income...a pretty significant swing for someone earning $14,000 per year.
Are you kidding???
When I was a college student way back when, I drove a '70 Chevy Nova, followed by a '68 Dodge Dart. I had a job that barely paid anything, and I held my cars together on duct tape, and prayer... why? Because I could not "afford" to upgrade. So, over time, I spent a ton of cash on buying cases of oil at $10 because I could never raise the $300 to get the oil leak fixed. I bought used tires at $25 a pair, a couple times a year because I could not afford a set of new rollers... so if you think that folks making no money could "move closer to work," then you have no idea about coming up with the security deposit for the new place, the cost of getting utilities turned on etc.
One other thiong I would say is, they should be at least trying to carpool (I know it isn't a solution for everyone, but when gas takes that big of a bite out of your paycheck you have to do something).
Anyway I hope you didn't think I was criticizing these people for their jobs, I was only saying that they were fooled by low gas prices and bought a car that may not be affordable to run in the long term (and I also know that they may have been what they could afford, it is sad really and I do feel for them).
Scott
Scott
Please provide references for your research.
We get only the lowest tiers of jobs from the Japanese owners.
Jim Press could buy and sell you and me ... so if he is on the lowest tier, where does that put us?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Notice Jim bailed on Toyota to make the big bucks. I don't think Toyota pays management comparable to other US companies. I have to agree that the bulk of the money ends up in Japanese pockets or bank accounts. Not reinvested in the USA. Which is the free market way of doing things. Hopefully the falling dollar will revive our exports.
Maybe THAT'S why they're managing to turn a profit....American corporate culture these days tends to overpay middle-management and up these days. Those drones certainly don't deserve it, either.
What the car didn't save me in gas, it saved me in other ways. Cheap insurance, hardly ever a repair, almost no oil use, never any body work needed, and never any payments for 11 years, plus it doubled as a truck as I put my 275 lb, 6HP, 5000 watt generator in the front passenger seat each nite for the 6 months that I was building my new house as my second job, after my day job.
The question today is, even if people are willing to work hard, will they be willing to drive an old car and take care of it too if that's what it takes to get ahead? Is gas so high that an old 15 mpg truck or 20 mpg van that costs $750 isn't a plan anymore?
What effect that has on the two luxury brands remains to be seen. However, more interesting will be the effect on Ford's stock price. It has been languishing at $6 per share for a while.
It should go up because of the sale. However, Ford bought Jaguar and Land Rover for a combined $5.25 billion. The sale to Tata was for $2.3 billion for both companies.
That's certainly no recipe for success.
.
Well I join in the wandering off topic for a moment - You talk about young people's expectations.... they expect what we give them. One of my pet peeves is that there are so many parents who talk about how the children are greedy and selfish, while going out to get in debt buying the kid a new car for graduating high school - my folks told me that graduating high school was an expectation; I'd simply done my job. The diploma was what I'd done it for.
You mention the kid (young adult?) with the gas card that dad HAS to pay for.... No, dad does not have to... dad chooses to. Many look at parenting from a place that is ironic. On the one hand, we say that our struggles made us stronger, better people; on the other we say that we don't want our children to go through the same things we did. The parents I admire the most are the ones who can afford more, but choose not to do more, to encourage the kid to learn self sufficiency.
And (my feeble attempt to be topic relevant) many of those kids would benefit from an apprenticeship at some heavy manufacturing job, like the auto industry.
Thanks
My sons got similar low value cars, because they are living at home and commuting to the local tech school.
Actually, if I'm not mistaken, the end result was them actually PAYING OUT money to get rid of it.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
We get only the lowest tiers of jobs from the Japanese owners.
These companies spend plenty of money reinvesting in the US and adding engineers and designers and executives (Jim Press, an American, was the first non-Asian on the Toyota board). Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, Nissan, and many more car companies have design and engineering facilities in the US (primarily California and Michigan).
85% of the value of the car ends up back in Japan or S. Korea.
More than half of the value of most vehicles built and sold in the US stays in the US. Most "transplants" are produced with more than 50% US/Canadian content and many have upwards of 70% North American parts. These parts are produced in US (and Canada) factories employing US (and Canadian) workers using locally sourced Tier 2 and Tier 3 suppliers in many cases. In many of these cases, I've got to say that somewhere above 70% "of the value of the car" stays in North America...and none of them have 85% of the value being returned to either Japan or South Korea. Especially since about 10% of the "value of the car" is in transportation, distribution, and sales.
Now they get their money while polluting our air with their factories.
Subaru has one of the cleanest factories in North America.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
TOKYO (AP) - Honda, Japan's second-biggest automaker, reported a 38.1 percent jump in profit for the October-December quarter on Wednesday, thanks to booming sales in the U.S., Europe and Asia outside Japan.
Honda, which sells nearly half of its vehicles in North America, revised upward its annual profit forecast, appearing to shrug off the looming worries about a U.S. recession and a stronger yen, which erodes exporters' profits.
Like other Japanese automakers with their reputation for smaller fuel-efficient models, Honda Motor Co. _maker of the Civic and Accord sedans and Odyssey minivan _ is getting extra consumer interest because of a recent surge in gas prices.
Honda's quarterly profit rose to 200 billion yen ($1.87 billion) from 144.8 billion yen the same period the previous year, marking a record for the fiscal third quarter.
Quarterly sales climbed 10 percent to 3.045 trillion yen ($28.52 billion) from 2.769 trillion yen a year ago, the Tokyo-based manufacturer said.
Cost-cutting also helped boost its bottom line.
With global demand growing for its products, Honda raises its profit forecast 16.5 percent to 690 billion yen ($6.46 billion) profit for the fiscal year ending March 31. In October, it had projected a 640 billion yen profit.
But it trimmed its fiscal year sales forecast to 12.150 trillion yen ($113.82 billion) from an earlier 12.300 trillion yen ($115.22 billion). The revised sales number still marks a 9.6 percent rise from the previous year.
Honda's operating profit rose 35 percent on year to 276.24 billion yen ($2.59 billion), beating analysts' forecasts.
In the latest quarter, Honda sold 991,000 vehicles globally. About half of those _ or 481,000 vehicles _ were sold in North America, up 2.1 percent from the previous year.
Why do they report Honda's profits in Yen???????????????????????????
So over half of the 112 billion dollars in Honda's annual revenue comes from North american sales. And you can name the FIRST American executive. Impressive!!!!!!
...filling her tank of her Jeep Cherokee...
"Frye works at a factory in Selma, Ala., making lawn chair cushions."
So this lady has kids, makes around $15k/year, has a 70 mile commute, and drives a Jeep Cherokee. She makes lawn chair cushions yet drives an SUV?!!
Gas hogs. Am I supposed to cry when people decide to make these decisions? Is it wise that people make choices that put them on the financial edge? Why didn't they spend below their means so that they had some backup? I'm sure they have DVD players, buy plenty of beer and cigarettes, and make other stupid decisions as well.
Next thing you know people will scream that the rich should pay their fair share so that the people who can't make sensible decisions can be bailed out. Kind of like subprime borrowers.
And for those saying why get an education if those jobs are paying less, too -- wouldn't you rather get less starting from a high base salary than a menial work salary? I mean, really. I'm 52 years old and even in the 1960's we knew that getting an education would lead to a much better standard of living.
While 70% of Honda's profits came from the US, it also says that over 50% of their global SALES are also in the US.
But yes, let's do that math. We'll start with your figure of $1.87 billion and multiply that by 70%, which is $1.31 billion. And divide that by the 358,022 (not the 120k you used) vehicles sold by Honda in the US in the fourth quarter of 2007 (third quarter of Honda's fiscal year), which gives us $3,656 per vehicle. This includes profit from sales of vehicles and financing from five or six years worth of vehicles as well, since Honda has a captive finance company.
Your 85% number is STILL wide of the mark. It's a global company so not all of that $28 billion passes through hands in Japan, most of the HALF that comes from US sales needs to get routed through North America since 77%(!) of the vehicles Honda sells in the US are built in North America. And of those 77%, they contain more than 60% North American content (my guess is that the number is north of 70%, but I'm being conservative). Just from those figures, it's IMPOSSIBLE for 85% of the value of US-market Hondas to go back to Japan.