Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/22 for details.
Options
Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
It seems we are getting a bit far off the topic with this insurance thread so let's try to wrap it up and get back to the viability and need of US automakers. Thanks.
I don't think MBA's should do anything but our taxes.
From the MBAs I have known they say the same thing That masters was mainly for networking. Same as the whole Rhodes Scholar program. Then you can play off each other to get the good jobs. Yes you can blame much of the banking and wall street mess on MBA and all of the Congressional mess on Lawyers.
That's what I was thinking. My faux pas.
Yeah, I noticed that and edited it several times. I deleted the - and space, but it reappeared in the post each time :confuse: .
After getting my '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and enjoying the car to the hilt the past two years, I say no! America doesn't need them. As long as no prohibitive tariffs that rockylee wants added to imports get added, I have a favorite that is nudging Kia Motors slightly to the side for now. Mitsubishi Motors of Japan, man.
It'll be interesting to see if Zero Pollution Motors brings their new 6-seat air-powered car(with a nat.gas or gasoline energy for lengthier commutes tank that fires up when all the air is used up)that they say will have a range of 900 miles at a cost of around $15 to $20. No kidding, the factory for these cars will be located in the state of New York. They are planning on starting to build there and their initial target is 10,000 ZPM cars, for the first year. I would assume that means 2010, but the reading I have just completed pointed to 2009 in the U.S. Phew! Stay tuned for fresher info.on that one, but that is aggressive, eh? They have 3 or 4 of these air-powered cars designed and in testing, but the U.S. is getting the 6-seat version. Around 100mpg when converting the energy burn types(air+ either nat.gas or gasoline). They will go 100 mph and cost $17,800. An Obama $7,500 "green" car rebate should fully apply to these rigs.
That's one difference between these ZPM cars and the 2010 Pininfarina-Bollore B-Zero's due here in Septmenber of 2010. P-B won't throw out a price for the B0 yet. Three U.S. "test" markets will get shipments of B-Zero's sometime this year, though.
Whoo-hoo! steve, I can tie this pup to the thread it's in, too. Know how? I'll tell ya how. I don't need America's automakers in the future, nor have I needed them since, oh, about 1997, when I purchased a purple 1997 Ford Escort sedan. Wasn't a bad rig, I just saw more potential in humble Kia Motors even in 1999 to stay loyal to the domestics.
Think Green-Greeen-Green-Green-$7,500 rebate Green! Green! Green! No pollution leaving your tailpipes, gentlemen. Green-mobiles for you and I!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Agreed, the website presentation is rather full of itself.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It just doesn't add up.
Apparently it gets you started for your first what, 40-50 miles, then the air system running out of pressure triggers the fuel tank near the air system to pump fuel in to the same system as the air system, and the design will automatically garner that energy and keep the car running at full steam.
They really try to get across that the car is not slow, and, the "range" of 880-900 miles is given as very attainable.
I am interested in reading much more about this 6-seater but really need some more edumacation on the compressed air technology and it's "booster" system of CNG or straight gasoline.
This guy who designed this system has some other engine technologies on his resume that he has designed already, take a look at the website of ZPM's, they reference the company this guy operates and his accomplishments.
These "green" cars do have an audience with open arms in America, so we'll just have to wait and watch with baited breath, I spose.
The price is reasonable, at $17,800, especially if the Obama rebate of $7,500 can be fully applied. If it doesn't "fully" apply they will cut some of the rebate off, as applicable. The Fed's will have to decide what it should be according to this different type of engine setup and size.
It does sort of scream "pipe dream", doesn't it? :shades:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yep, it is just a "battery". Instead of storing the energy chemically, it is stored physically by squeezing air.
So my trusty Craftsman 33 gallon 2hp 150 psi air compressor weighs ~140lbs shipping weight. My guess is 150 psi will get you to the corner/end of your driveway in this vehicle. So if you need an ASME certified tank to store this compressed air at something in the 1000 psi range, I wonder how much that weighs.
*This is subject to change
Standard Features will include:
Computer based screen display of vehicle control parameters
Full CFC-free A/C
Airbags
Fully reclining driver’s seat
Power windows, door locks and mirrors
Deluxe AM/FM stereo with cassette and cd player, optional GPS
Rear window defogger
Concealed spare tire
All season 13-inch radial tires
A cold weather package will be available
Engine and Transmission Characteristics include:
Horsepower: 75
Power source: Electronically injected compressed air
Oil volume and oil change interval: 0.8 liter at 50,000 miles
Engine mount: Rear
Transmission: Automatic, Continually Variable Transmission. Rear wheel drive.
Suspension: Front coil spring, rear pneumatic.
Steering mechanism: Rack and pinion.
Chassis and body materials: Aluminum and fiber glass.
Tanks: Thermoplastic lining and carbon fiber.
Their Mission: To bring zero pollution motoring at any speed, for any distance, to the largest number of motorists possible and, in doing so, significantly improve the quality of the air we breathe and reduce our collective carbon footprint.
Here's the website to learn more about zero pollution cars.
http://zeropollutionmotors.us/?page_id=43
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Claims It's Not All Hot Air
In something that some may call a whole load of hot air, Tata Motors, a division of India’s largest conglomerate, has announced it will start selling a car in India by 2009. A car, you might wonder? Yes. A car. Not the usual petrol/ diesel/ hybrid run-of-the-mill car we’ve known for over 100 years. No. This one runs on air. Yes. The type we breathe in and out everyday, the one found almost everywhere on earth.
check out this article---- game postponed!
http://www.cartradeindia.com/car-bike-news/tata-compressed-air-car-to-take-time-- 110388.html
This car may RUN, kinda sorta, around the parking lot, as a taped up prototype, but it's not going any 1000 miles at 96 mph anytime soon. That sounds to me like pure hype. Given the specs and my limited knowledge of physics, I don't see this car performing any better than an anemic little EV like a Zenn. Where oh where is the power coming from to push that BRICK to 96 mph for 1,000 miles at 100 mpg? From 75 HP? I don't think so.
BTW, would you like to be sitting on a 4500 PSI air tank? Not me.
This "air car" idea has been around since the 1990s actually, and it's never gotten out of the gate. I'm getting kind of tired of "all show and no go".
They do have a more conventional NANO, the $2,500 car from Tata Motors, and that might actually happen. But it is entirely conventional in concept, with a 0.6L, 33 HP engine. The car is actually glued together. No air bags, natch, so you won't see it here.
There are plenty of brilliant people who come up with ideas that don't work. Tesla comes to mind (the man, not the car). Or Edison. Part of genius is the willingness to go into the unknown, and sometimes (often) fail.
The "race to watch" is one among Tata, Nissan, Renault and GM to produce a very VERY cheap car for Asia.
Quite frankly I am not anxious to be sitting close to high pressure tanks of any sort. The Civic HX and GX come to mind. Here is another entry from a big company. Much more stylish chick magnet. If you don't mind sitting next to batteries that have been known to burst into flames.
The energy for the electric motor comes from lithium-ion batteries that are available in two different stack configurations for short- and long-distance driving. The electric motor of the Rinspeed iChange Concept produces 150kW, capable of propelling the car to a top speed of 220 km/h. The sprint from rest to 100 km/h takes just slightly over four seconds. This impressive performance is made possible with the help of a six-speed pre-selector gearbox from the Subaru WRX
car. The central research department of Siemens AG (Corporate Technology, CT) supplied the integration technology for engine/generator, electronics and battery connection interface. Siemens has long been one of the world leaders for energy systems and eco technology with pioneering concepts for electric drive systems.
Notice that Americans seem left out except for the Tesla, which shows me little in the way of innovation.
A 4500 PSI air tank is like sitting on a live torpedo. It's not an issue of flammability. It's an issue about "cutting loose". One has to see an oxygen tank go through the wall of a building to appreciate what happens. And that is maximum 3000 psi. (200 bar).
Well that would get the air car moving, albeit short and violent.
Hmm, I don't see this in the US anytime soon. There are pretty stringent requirements for compressed air tanks (that developing nations seem less concerned about, go figure), especially at 4500 psi. A little thermal expansion (like filling the car on a dessert night at 40 degrees and then driving it on a 100 degree day....) and you would be in a heap of trouble.
The technology is interesting and holds promise, but not so ready for prime time and I don't see it putting *pressure* on other alternative methods, just a lot of hot air. :P
If this were to happen(an O2 tank busts loose) not only would I no doubt lose my job, but whatever live creature is in the way of that tank will no doubt lose their life.
Relating this to the CityFlowAIR car, I am feeling like this is not good technology. An all-electric buggy might make more sense, or even a 2010 Ford Fusion Hybrid, yes.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
The problem is, you compress air, you get HEAT, and it's not usable energy. Also the Cornell School of Engineering speculates that to achieve the claims of the inventor, the air compressor would have to be so large as to be run by an onboard gasoline engine.
Thus, the idea of burning gasoline on board to make compressed air to run the car is kind of pointless, right?
There are other red flags here. The company a) makes its mileage claims based on EXTRAPOLATION of their experimental results and b) they make their money selling patents and licenses, not making cars.
Hey all I want is to see a REAL car, being filled up in a few minutes by a small compressor, and I want to see it go 1000 miles without further filling up of the air or the 8 gallons of gasoline.
I'd even settle for half that.
If it's less than half that, then you are in gas/electric hybrid territory, or VW TDI territory, and you've advanced not at all. You're burning gas to run the car over 35 mph, and burning fuel to power the compressor at the electrical outlet.
I saw the aftermath of an Oxy tank the fell and broke off the valve. It made a mess of the guys shop. Like a giant balloon flying around the room. Why can't they just build a car with a small nuclear reactor to run it for the next 35 years without refueling?
And call it, what, the Nanonuke? Available in Standard, Premium and - when they figure out how to turbocharge a small reactor - Supersport?
They did kind of gloss over the point that with lead shielding the thing would probably cave in your driveway, but oh well, this was the 50s in America, when anything was possible. Flying cars, jet packs (I *still* want a jet pack), nuclear cars, turbine cars.
Now we do seem to be on the cusp of a re-invention of the automobile, but from a different angle. Not from wild optimism and prosperity, but from necessity. Probably the "new car" will be more sober than anything in the 50s, but also perhaps equally interesting.
As in the 50s, innovation will be based on what was real and possible. Fuel injection and turbocharging came out of WW II, not from outer space.
Yet another air-compressed engine technology to behold. Which one will be able to work and safely propel an automobile? One that will actually work for the earth's car-digging inhabitants?
This guy is an Australian, I have noticed that none of these air-compressor-driven motor technology dudes are Chinese, nor American.
Only 1 P.S.I. to propel!
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Or???
Well it's a cute little thing and I'm sure it runs on his desk...
I don't wish to be harsh or cynical, but when people make these outrageous and miraculous claims and just hang them out to dry with no support, it's a bit annoying and deserves a brickbat or two. :P
The Air Car will follow the same safety rules and regulations of all approved cars driven in the Unites States. The car’s tubular body provides increased resistance in the event of a crash. The air tank(s), located under the floor, is carbon fiber with a thermoplastic lining. If damaged upon impact, it cracks and the air simply escapes without any explosion, as there is no metal. Aerospace giant Air Bus industries will manufacture the tanks for MDI.
The Air Car comes equipped with Air Bags and ABS braking.
Never is the explosive thermodynamic intrusion discussed, just the fact that if the tanks are damaged upon impact, they will then crack, and the air simply escape without an explosion. There is no metal.
They wouldn't be hiding anything from us, would they?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Yeah, think about what happened to the shark at the end of "Jaws."
All of this stuff has been tried decades ago.....spring cars, flywheel cars, magnetic cars, you name it.
They all ran head-on into the laws of physics. The ICE engine persists these last 125 years because nothing can really trump its thermal efficiency in a capacity necessary for everyday propulsion of a serious vehicle.
postponed roll outs
seeking investors
outdated materials and PR
When I was a kid my mom used to take us up to Picatinny Arsenal on Armed Forces Day (isn't that what mothers are for?) and I remember one year they were going to be showing off that car there. We never did see it. I got to go in a tank though and immediately decided that being a tank driver was not for me. I was maybe 7 and it felt cramped!
On what other planet would you want this instituted Shifty? At least 50% of a person's health outcome is attributed to and culpable to the patient. Is a physician/health car provider around a patient 24/7 and can guarantee that he/she will follow the physician's advice completely meaning to stop smoking, get enough exercise, lose the recommended amount of weight, control one's diet and blood sugar precisely, take the prescribed medication religiously, and a plethora of other recommendations.
Hey, while we're at it, why not have a performance guarantee on every line of work: don't pay your builder or contractor if EVERYTHING is not to your liking. Don't pay for the food you eat if you don't like it, don't pay for advertising if it didn't earn you a preset amount. Don't pay your accountant if your tax preparation had an error. Don't pay for your car if you don't like it. And other examples on-and-on ad nauseum.
Nuff said, it's off the subject, but even if you said this in jest Shifty, this egregious premise needed a response.
Yes I wasn't being serious but perhaps we can both agree that our present health care system is broken. You can see this in so many ways, be it in the automaker's runaway costs or in the fact that all kinds of goofy "cures" rake in hundreds of millions of dollars from consumers.
One, because they agreed to put themselves on the hook for ALL future healthcare costs for workers and retirees, without realizing that the future would bring huge advances in healthcare at equally huge costs.
Two, the consumers of healthcare - workers and retirees - have little or no incentive to reduce costs, because they aren't directly paying for the services. That nonchalance about costs extends to doctors and healthcare providers, who are happy to order up expensive procedures, therapies and drugs.
Nationalized care doesn't necessarily solve these problems - if anything, by replicating them on a national scale, it can make them worse.
As for people turning to "goofy cures" - medicine can't solve every problem. People desperate for a cure will turn to unconventional cures and treatments. That reflects the substantial number of Americans who believe that a cure or some other magic pill is just around the corner, or being hidden by some vast conspiracy (conspiracy theories are more exciting and fun than the plain old boring truth). The problem here is a refusal to accept that modern technology and medicine cannot cure everything.
The automakers runaway costs are partially to health care guarantees made years ago by the companies to the UAW when much of the high tech procedures and other current forms of technology were not even conceived much less implemented.
Actually, as a side note of no value whatsoever to this topic, people do pursue "goofy" cures for minor ailments in droves, but very very few will abandon medical science when their life is at stake. Medical science, on the other extreme, will pursue the most crushingly expensive interventions in totally hopeless situations.
My health plan did a great thing, which I would recommend to Detroit. Free membership in a health club as part of my plan, as long as I recorded a certain number of visits.
Free membership in a health club as part of my plan, as long as I recorded a certain number of visits.
Incentives to encouraging good health such as this might be a dollar well spent.
Wouldn't it be interesting for the Big Three to experiment with things like healthier food in company cafeterias, incentives for not smoking, maybe once a week neck massages, on site medical advice---and if all that shows any benefit, peel back the benefits package.
Actually I'd like to get most of Congress into the gym as well. Trim that fat!
Nice idea in theory...in reality many people are working so much these days they don't have time to visit a health club.
Though I think deducting my Wii as a fitness expense should work. I actually bought the thing for exercise. :shades:
Scene shifts to a courtroom...
"...well yes, Dr. Smith, we know you ordered 10 MRI's on Mr. Brown, but don't think that maybe the lump on his lung could have possibly been found by the 11th MRI...?
No doubt.
Scene shifts to a courtroom...
"...well yes, Dr. Smith, we know you ordered 10 MRI's on Mr. Brown, but don't think that maybe the lump on his lung could have possibly been found by the 11th MRI...?
NNNot... quite; I doubt the insurance companies would allow that. Realistically, it's more like: attorney, now after the fact says, "Dr. Smith, why didn't you order an (to the tune of $2000+) MRI?"