Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
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The tilt wheel stays up in the air above you. You adjust your seat to get the right distance. I tried Ford's telescope and tilt wheels in the Fusion and Taurus; the til lowers the whole column right onto your knees. And the angle of the steering wheel, the plane of the wheel, doesn't vary as much as with the GM Saginaw tilt.
Telescope would be a nice added feature, but I've always adjusted the seat to suit.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
My Intrepid has that style of tilt wheel, and I prefer it to those types where you release the lever and then force the column up or down, and then push the lever back to hold it in place. At least with the old style type, the steering column itself is usually high enough that it's out of my way. Those types where the whole column moves often don't raise up high enough to get the column out of the way for when I have to move my foot from the gas pedal to the brake. And if they do, then the steering wheel itself is too high for my comfort.
It is no wonder there are some domestic fans dedicated to the product rather than the dubious patriotic symbolism that other "Buy American!" buyers have in mind.
But the problem is that there are many areas where the general public perceives the domestics NOT to be competitive, and without a widely diversified and highly competitive product mix, I just see no way the domestics will be able to stay in business in the long run.
And large sedan sales have been declining steadily for two years now, which is why Toyota is getting out of the Avalon business. And full-size SUVs are having their ups and downs too, so neither of these will be the domestics' cash cow as they have been 20 years in the past.....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Where are you getting this information? I've been looking and can't find anything to confirm that.
My experience is different. At Toyota a salesman is right on me as soon as the door to my car opens. If I try to park away from the building just to browse the cars, the salesman is right there and won't leave me along so I can browse the stickers. Last year I went inside the showroom to browse and the same thing happened. Weather was inclement and I told me I just wanted to look at the cars and the stickers. He was like glue.
At another Toyota dealer they try to flag you down by walking in front of the car and waving for you to stop or roll down the window. I just drive through to see how many new cars they have backed up and often look at their used car line. The salesman comes out of the building and tries to stop you.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I don't get too hung up on it. If I'm just looking and they want to hang on me I leave. Life is too short.
Funny thing many years ago. I saw a used car at the local (then) Pontiac-Olds-Cadillac lot. I stopped to look. A salesman came out and it was very evident right away that the car and I weren't a match. He was fine. Gave me his card and told me he was always available if I needed something and I left. I look at his card and I see it's the same last name as this woman I'm trying to know better. Sure enough she's his daughter. He was my FIL for a bunch of years. I miss him.
Most insistent sales persons (guys) I have ever encountered was as a kid accompanying my dad on Sunday morning shopping trips (every few months) on Chicago's infamous Maxwell Street. Clothing and other kinds of stores were on the street. The "street" had varioius vendors with carts, trailers, etc with all kinds of stuff immaginable (allegedly, a lot of it was hot). The brick and mortar stores were mostly legitimate businesses and many had a high pressure fast talking sales guy on the sidewalk at the front door that tried very hard to "lure" you inside the store with "today's" bargains.
We do have the advantage in NJ in that if we want to just cruise the lot we have all day Sunday to do it. The dealerships are closed.
You know, the GM dealers here are almost the ONLY places I experience that kind of aggressiveness...and the desperate Chrysler dealer. The Ford dealer used to be like that but they shut down...new management turned them around.
Many years ago, wife and I dressed nicely (not suit and tie for me though) on a late Sunday morning and went to visit new house models (that were advertised in Sunday newspaper) in an expensive suburb nearby.
We arrived in a clean Chevy Caprice station wagon, parked on street near the office for the models. There was only one other car nearby, presumably the sales person inside. As we walked in the sales office, the attached 3-car garage of the model home, the sales lady said: "What do you want?" rather than "Good morning, welcome to XXX Builders model homes". Talk about snootiness. She saw us arrive in a Chevy rather than a BMW, Mercedes, etc., and guess she figured we could not afford her builder's houses either based on our age or car.
But let's get back to US automakers please.
For buying, check out How to find a quality salesperson.
I walked out and that weekend went to the dealer back home and ordered a new Laguna S3. Six months later I treated myself for graduation and traded it for a 76 Corvette (at the dealer back home).
Later in life when I wanted a BMW I was doing some hard dealing with the manager. I went back three times to argue with him. He told me "I'm not used to dealinfg on these. Most people just come in and buy one". I told him I'm not a doctor and I can't write this off. I want a BMW but I can live without one. I ended up driving away in a new 3 series. I told him I am a loyal customer and I have friends. He ended up selling me a total of 3 BMW's over the years and three of my friends also bought one. He learned a lesson about judging people.
He did write (after a big a sigh) on the deal sheet in BOLD letters across the page "Sold Cheap" and said "deal".
Hey, I was 19 when I bought my first new Buick, in 1988. As long as you're 18 you're old enough to buy a Buick, if you please.
Actually, I take that back, the best sales experience was when I got the Contour. In 1998 I got a used '96 SE V6 MTX. My favorite car I've owned so far. The sales guy and the manager said to list out what I wanted, they went down to the lease auction, got it, came back up and called me to come get "my car." I got there it was on the ramp with balloons and my name written on it. My dad looked at me and said " great, so much for bargaining leverage." The deal was fine, the service was great, I miss that car. :sick:
There's always one. I'm sure you represented about 0.001% of the profile of new Buick purchasers.
I'm guessing your Grandpa or Dad owned one, tell the truth
True, a lot of them waste it on costly dining, designer clothes or other overpriced things. Unfortunately for me I am a car nut and was obsessed looking for the "perfect ride". I bought my BMW a little before they became the car to have for the yuppies. The car, compared to the cars I had driven before was incredible. Even the metal around the wheel well was curve formes and filled with sealant and you didn't scratch your fingers when you washed the ties (rich people don't wash their own cars). The trunk was finished better than the interior of many cars. It hummed like a well oiled sewing machine.
Ultimately, I decided that I would quit wasting money, mostly when people started buying them to show off, never really fully appreciating the car, and bought an SUV. I managed that for years until I got the bug for the Infiniti FX45. I felt like a kid again. But alas, I came to my senses and bought a hybrid. I'll probably be able to control my urges although there is a 370Z with my name on it whispering in my ear. I'll fight that off.
Bottom line, not everyone who has money buys a Mercedes or BMW to show off. I'll agree that most do. In the case of people with "real" money though I understand why they do it. The cost of a $60K car compared to a $30K car is insignificant to them so why not buy something nice. It's not to flaunt their money, it simply is not a major investment to them.
I envy people that think a car is simply transportation and they buy the cheapest thing they can. It's wise to do so. But some people truly love quality and for those that do, driving an Impala rather than a 5 series BMW simply won't make them happy. There is a world of difference, one simply has to make a decision if it;'s worth it.
Most people I know always buy more house than they need as well, so it's not just cars.
Back to the topic. IF American did not have a love affair with cars, the auto industry would be a lot smaller than it is today.
To be fair, in 1988, Buick had a broader lineup that appealed to a wider age range of buyers. Now I couldn't see too many 19 year olds buying a new Buick, but most 19 year old buy used cars anyway, or get hand-me-downs from their parents. Heck, back in those days I lusted after the RWD 1981-87 Regal.
Ahh, I smell white collar money
I like the DTS, but I really don't want a car that big. I can't understand why you can't get small and mid size cars with full size seats. Eliminate the console and put bigger seats in. I drive a lot of miles and comfort is important to me.
The Pontiac G* is the only car I have seen in a while in the GM line up in that price range that I would consider roomy. I just wish it had been available in fwd or awd. I live on a hill and we get snow. I do not want to go back to the days of my youth driving rwd cars in bad weather.
I guess it depends on which BMWs and Mercedes models you see people driving. I believe the bulk of 3-Series and C-Class buyers/lessees are poseurs and wannabes. They just want to show the world they drive a Bimmer or Benz while stretching their finances to the limit when a Chevy, Ford, Honda, or Toyota would be a much more reasonable choice. The truly well-off guys drive 7-Series and S-Classes.
Genetic mutation?
That's just how you see them.
BTW, that was not a personal attack, you like what you like and that's perfectly acceptable.
In the 60's and 70's they didn't depreciate much, but even Vette's these days have a big depreciation drop in the first couple of years.
SUV's depreciation is crazy. Sure the gas prices hurt the last few years, but they have been depreciating big time for several years. and it's not from lack of interest because people were still buying them. Like all American cars they were overproduced, discounted big and dropped like a rock on used prices as the market flooded.
People still want and need SUV's in amny cases and if the market were not flooded from all those people that bought them but really didn't need them, the prices might have stabalized. 50% depreciation in two years from a hugely discounted price from the MSRP seems to be the norm. I'll probably look at a good used one next time as they represent a real bargain if you wanting one.
Whoa, I grew up in those days. What kind of family fights did you guys have?
We were Chevy guys and I'm not sure a Ford was even allowed in the driveway.
Both, actually. Nevertheless, if you want one, and you like it, there's no stopping you.Dare to be different.
An I am unreasonably picky sometimes about small features. But have you noticed how bulky the STS looks in the front from the side with those tiny tire/wheel combo? The CTS looks slick, the STS, while using the same form looks bulky. That's why I was so surprised it had very little more room.
Actually, I'm hoping in 5 years my wife will think I'm old enough. In my closet I look at literature on the DTS Performance model. My Dad's Chevy genes are still in me.
I had a '79 225 coupe w/ a 350 Buick. Wish I still had it.
Bottom line is it's good that we all have different tastes. It makes you wonder though why GM didn't launch a line to compete directly with the foreigns instead of against them.
My 5 series was probably about the same price as a cadillac, but in no way were they similar cars, especially back then. There was a large portion of baby boomers not wanting what GM had to offer. Rather than to try and tempt me out of BMW with a Cadillac DeVille they needed to come out with a line styled, interior and exterior to go head to head with the Foreign cars. I had enough GM blood in me that I would never have left the brand. I read intently every time in Motor Trend and C&D about the new GM cars. The Cimaron sounded good in print as an alternative to the 3 series but the production car certainly did not give you the impression that it was really competing with BMW. It seemed to simply be a Cadillac for the "poor".
They tried it again with the Lumina offshoot, but again it was just agussied up Chevrolet.
To compete they needed firm seats and suspension, get rid of the glitz and make a car that did not look like its Chevrolet cousin. I mourned when I left GM but I really felt like they divorced me rather than me leaving them. They were going in a different direction than I was heading and I didn't want to ride this out. Considering that it took them about 20 years to even start coming close to what I desired, it would have been a long ride.
Looks like Ford has best chance of being a viable American car company in spite of recently reported losses. Good new products such as hybrid Fusion and the all new Taurus. Latest issue of Automobile magazine has favorable comments on the Taurus. Their newly designed F150 will continue to find, and pickup, buyers from construction trades, farmers, ranchers. Will be interesting to see if new "porker" Camaro can meet or beat Mustang sales volume.
GM really having no vision at all apparently, could have used the BMW 3 series as a benchmark to produce a taut, good handling car rather than the bloated and ridiculous looking Camaro/Firebird twins. Finally, in 2008, GM offers the Pontiac G8, as a good handling, reasonable sized car that comes closest so far in emulating BMW 3 or 5.
I do think GM went too far though when they added the vinyl roof to the 1970 SS Chevelle
There is a guy driving around here in a current generation Accord with a vinyl top. What the heck was he thinking?