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Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
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HEY!!! It costs a lot of money to drill that hole in the valve cover and air cleaner. And the black hose is soooo unsightly
I remember when California told Detroit--"Fine. You don't want to install PCV valves? Okay then don't bother to sell your cars here".
Guess what happened next?
MrShiftright
Visiting Host
On the good side, I think California has spurred the auto industry into making much needed improvements---often clumsily (hell is still paved with good intentions, isn't it?) but still most states, even the most conservative and stodgey, have adopted some or all of California's emissions policies.
For instance, I think without California laws, the Feds wouldn't have instituted their regulations as quickly as they did, and improvements like computerized engine management systems would have taken forever to appear on American cars. As it was, by 1985 US automakers were 20 years behind in basic automotive technology.
So I think Calif. and the Feds and the gas crisis and the Japanese competition all helped to drag the Big Three kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
And the Big Three STILL doesn't like it, it seems.
They'd rather be building 1966 Pontiac GTOs and in some ways I can't blame them.
Shifty
Visiting Host
the big three are really the big 15 or 20 depending on which autos you are talking about.
i think the US industry needs a shake-up or a reorganization in the way they do business.
30 years and they STILL have not learned anythin from foriegn automakes -
LIMITED MODELS and OPTIONS:
Why are the so many of the SAME models, re badged as something else?
If the Saturn Outlook is a great vehicle, does it need to be re badged as Chevy or GMC?
Does GM really need Buick or Pontiac?
Does Ford need Mercury?
The forign automakers design a vehicle with what people want, then offer 2 or 3 variants -
Take the Honda Accord
3 variants lx ex se (which is made here in ther USA)
I've looked at some Tahoe's and there are 5 different BASE models - ridiculous
In the end I think the Big Three need to dig themselves out of their own hole -
i have heard stories of Saturn plants forcing GM to make a car at a certain plant even if no one wants it - silly and bad business...
My 2 cents
it's my understanding that this industry is a lot smaller than it was 50 years ago in America.
Given that steel is a vital resource, it would seem that we've gotten along fine with a much-shrunken industrial base in this area.
Anybody know more about this? I'm very interesting in this.
Some of the blame for the death of the US Steel industry can be blamed on dumping from foreign companies. Not all of it but some.
Shifty
Visiting Host
They aren't in the same league as Mittal, but they and US Steel are in the top ten worldwide steel producers list.
There is also the Acura version...why?
The european Accord is also different from the US's and sold here only with the Acura badge.
The same is true for the Camry as it is different then the Camry for the rest of the world.
The TL might be based on the accord but it doesn't drive anything like the accord.
Agreed.
LIMITED MODELS and OPTIONS: Exactly!!!
If the Saturn Outlook is a great vehicle, does it need to be re badged as Chevy or GMC?
It doesn't, it shouldn't, and it wouldn't if it were a Toyota.
Does GM really need Buick or Pontiac?
No, they don't, nor do they need Saturn or GMC.
Does Ford need Mercury?
At the moment, they do, because Lincoln has no product to sell - the dealers are staying barely alive on Mercury. However eventually, it should be merged into Lincoln.
I have been preaching this for years - the last thing GM needed was to create ANOTHER division, and then shut down their formerly most profitable division (Oldsmobile). I could write a book on the idiocy of GM's business model.
Ford is less redundant, but more inconsistent, largely because of the family drag on the process of change and building cars, I hear.
Once again, if I were Mulally running Ford today, I would attempt to redistribute the brands among dealers like this:
Ford dealers can stand alone.
Lincoln Mercury becomes Lincoln-Volvo-Mazda dealers.
Land Rover & Jaguar dealers combine.
3 Divisions, one for everybody (Ford). One for sporty (Lincoln has to change, I acknowledge that)(Lincoln, Volvo, Mazda) and one for exotic (Jaguar/Land Rover).
You say why cross shop Lincoln with Mazda and Volvo? Well, other than the Navigator - all the other Lincoln products today are built on a Mazda platform anyway, and the next one will be built on the Volvo. Lincoln is moving from luxury to sporty already - I don't like it, but it is.
THE GM PLAN:
Chevrolet - Saturn dealers combine
GMC makes all the trucks, or it goes away and Chevy makes 'em all. GMC-HUMMER dealerships.
Pontiac and Buick go away - they're just redundant anyway. Cadillac has entry level up-scale cars for move -ups.
Cadillac SAAB dealers for sport/luxury buyers.
If they won't do this, they are doomed....
Southwest Airlines for years, only flew 737 Boeing jets. Why? Pilots only had to know how to fly one plane, and could be interchanged on any flight with any plane. They now have some MD-70s and other planes, but they gained their advantage in the market through efficiency this way.
hey, Hey, HEY! I'm not fat! I'm big boned!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
What are you basing this on? :confuse:
Uh, Southwest still only flies the 737. There is no MD-70, although there are MD-80s and 90s. But not at Southwest.
Perhaps you are confusing them with the 737-700. Still a 737.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
As for Camry, there is only one version for all the markets. However, in some markets (like China and Taiwan), the exterior might change according to the local flavor.
To say TL is a glorified Accord only shows that he/she either:
1. never drives both before (thus no credibility what-so-ever), or
2. is strongly biased against Honda/Acura.
The new models, the MKZ and the MKX. I don't consider them really luxurious - but I also don't consider them Lincolns. They're too small, too sporty. Just what I see, and I have driven Lincoln for 16 years - until now.
1:11p ET June 4, 2007 (Reuters)
CHICAGO, June 4 (Reuters) - As rising health costs erode profits, U.S. corporations are expected to warm up to health care reform under the next president -- a prospect that would have been unthinkable just a few years ago
I think the time is upon us for this, as it could save our american auto industry, as well as other industries.
I find it odd, that a HCP can shove a bill w/ a 12-15% increase in premiums in front of us, and all we do is argue about who will foot the bill, us, or our employer? And then, the ones whose employers DO pick up the tab seem to be the target of the venom from those who have to pay their own, yet NOBODY yells at the HCP as to why the need for a 15% increase, when inflation is 3%. Here in RI, United Healthcare wanted to raise our rates, fought with a local hospital about reimbursement rates, AND wanted to send $38 MILLION in PROFITS back to HQ in MN. All made the news (they begrudgingly upped their reimb. rates, and were told to keep the $ in RI), yet people still argue as to who should pay what for permiums.
The Blue Cross type of corporations have warmed to the idea since now the proposals involve having the corporations manage the "premiums" instead of some government agency (that was the Clinton plan I think).
Since the health industry will get paid for doing the paperwork, universal health care seems a lot more palatable to them. Don't expect to see a lot of savings in handling the paperwork.
I'm curious to see if the UAW is going to step in and handle legacy retirement and health care costs for Chrysler. Maybe they'll take the money and then hire some outfit to manage the programs.
Not sure how unthinkable that has been for corporations that pay for health care. I think it depends on the specifics...if "reform", means they pay less and someone else pays more, I'm sure they will be all for it.
What brand of TV do you currently own?
What brand of DVD player do you currently own?
Where are all your clothes made from?
Actually if you understand the dumping theory from the early part of the importing takeover you realize that those products are mostly imported and there are no US choices marketed because of the dumping techniques that eliminated the TV, VCR, and other home electronics in the 70s and 80s, by undercutting the price of manufacturing here by selling below what it cost to manufacture and import from the foreign land. Then when the US company was out of business, the price could be optimized for profit again. That was even done with cars. I recall an import tax on autos. That's why the foreign brands built plants here to circumvent the importing costs meant to protect against dumping.
There are US manufacturers of clothing lines. When this was posted in another discussion, someone, kirstie for one, and others posted some US brands available in stores and online.
The clothing imports increases were done a few administrations back when quotas were put on China because of labor practices, but they started sending the clothes to other countries, i.e. Central American and Mexico, from which they were imported into the US and nothing was done about that. Could have been the Clinton administration. That was when Walmart, Tyson, and Hunt Trucking seemed to receive lots of favors; they were Arkansas companies someone pointed out.
As I said clothes et al aren't autos about which this discussion is centered.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2. RCA and Zenith are still making TVs, right?
So by scape's philosophy he shouldn't have any foreign brand TVs...
:confuse:
If the grip of the Chinese one fit your hand more comfortably, would you still have bought the American one?
Just curious....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
For instance the more that China sells us the more dependent their economy becomes on us. A conflict would stop all trade, and it would take years for that to ever come back. So that raises the bar as to whether China would see a net gain in an action that may cause a conflict with us. I just used China as an example; this is true with any country.
But yes we need heavy industry here in the U.S. for our security needs. It's just that in a global economy wages can not be too "tilted", unless there is a significant quality difference.
What brand of DVD player do you currently own?
Where are all your clothes made from?
I'll bite,
TV is made in Japan
DVD player is Chinese
clothes are from Jakarta, Pakistan, Indonesia, Sri Lanka.
This should drive a point home to you.. Kind of sad when you don't have a choice isn't it? all of our wealth going over seas never to return..
And because of this our country is getting into a very dangerous situation.
Of course you do.
Starting with the TV, buy Zenith or RCA. They are American. Not sure about the DVD player but I think there are still American companies making it. I could be wrong though. Clothes is kind of hard to buy "made in USA" but I am pretty sure if you look hard enough, you'll find some.
Buy Zenith and RCA. RCA was bought by the same French holding company years ago that also bought GE IIRC.
DVD players... American companies making it... "I could be wrong."
Clothes... "If you look hard enough..."
Why the backpedalling on the certainty--because these were run out of business by the undercutting pricing and the lack of concern of the US shoppers for sourcing.
Soon it'll also be too late for a US brand car because of same.
Does anyone know if Zenith TVs are made in US for sure?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Apex link
It doesn't matter whose name is on a television these days - Zenith, Sony, Magnavox, etc. They're all now made in third-world toilets. Remember TV repair men? Don't need 'em anymore as TVs and radios are pretty much throw-away items these days.
20" tube TVs, yeah, but I ain't throwing away a 50" plasma!
I got a warranty on our 53" projection TV when we bought it about 6 years ago. I used it 5 times so far (meaning a TV repairman came to the house every time).
I now have a warranty on our 37" LCD, too.
WOW! Am I off topic or what? ;b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S