I'm sure all of the commercials are readily available on Youtube. :P
On a more serious note, that's a good question. Sales v. year-ago sales for Toyota will be colored by the UA issue affecting last year's sales.
Maybe overall industry sales + market share by manufacturer? That way if one manufacturer is having supply problems, their market share might drop as other manufacturers - the ones with cars to sell - get to steal customers.
I really like the new Dodge commercials, especially the '11 Durango and Charger. When they hammer down on the gas . . . man! Makes me want to trade my reliable and trusty 4Runner in. Would I be sorry?
ask them what I can't get. Other than a LF-A, they'll probably say "nothing".
To a casual tire-kicker, of course that's what they'll say.
To a serious buyer, who sits down to really buy something, I'm sure they'll reveal that they're out of stock on half the colors, including the more popular ones.
Their inventory is half the ideal size. That's not my opinion, that's fact.
That way if one manufacturer is having supply problems, their market share might drop as other manufacturers - the ones with cars to sell - get to steal customers.
That sums it up nicely.
Nissan is winning big because they don't depend nearly as much on production in Japan. Perhaps Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn phased out expensive Japan-built parts?
Side note: check out Outlander supply - with some incentives and some marketing Mitsubishi has a glut of those on lots and could steal a bunch of sales...
I consistantly get 21 with the RWD 4Runner; 24 on a long road trip once! I believe the Durango is rated at 23. I saw an ad for 6,500 off last weekend. So, they're already discounting. Yeah, when I hear the exhaust through my surround sound, my testosterone does pump a little more.
I'd be pulling up in a nice shiny Mercedes. They wouldn't lie to me.
There might be a mere month of stock sitting around, but I have used the google and can't find claims of anyone being told they can't have what they want. Have you seen anything different?
I like the "Citadel" badge...I saw one of these, and the first thing that came to mind as I read it was "Citroen". Odd name to put on a car, people will pronounce it wrong too. But the previous Durango was such a bloated heavy sled that any small sins can be forgiven.
I guess that's about par for a class that isn't known for efficiency, though.
I sat in the Citadel at the auto show. Nice, soft leather, love the two-tone and the smells. There was wear on the seats, but it's a show car that gets a lot of traffic, FWIW.
They werent offering any kind of cash incentives or under invoice pricing at all though. They were straight up Invoice + 500 take it or leave it. Are they doing right by me or should I look elsewhere?
I would need to special order it and it would take 60-90 days.
It took me a while to find the car with the right price
The car will be factory ordered
In the LA area might be tough because I also asked for their quotes for the IS250 with F-sport package and their prices are significantly higher.
Generally sounds like prices are up across the board, and people are having to wait for factory orders, plus this is for an old model that traditionally isn't even in high demand.
Consistent with a 32 day supply of cars, so no surprise, to me at least.
Could I have gotten a better price? probably if I negotiated more
what should I expect to pay to have the car shipped?
St. Louis was a 13 hour drive for me, and I was able to find an AWD in sunny Florida with a five hour drive...not as good a "deal" but the hassle factor of driving, staying overnight, etc.. just made the Florida dealer make sense. If you contact him, tell him the girl from Florida recommended him!
Lexus in the Houston area will not budge on their pricing right now. Supply and Demand
We moved on and got the 2011 Buick Enclave CXL-1 instead.
I found one two hours from my location (Charlotte, NC)
they didn't tell me the color choice avail to me
when I tried that price at the other two dealers in my area, they wouldn't budge for it....
seems very hard to negotiate to that price range. Anyone have recently purchased this car in Raleigh area? Which dealer is better in this area? I am willing to drive several hours if I can get a good deal.
And by the way that's just from ONE PAGE of posts!
That's a funny case though, someone ordering a sport trim level on a base car - probably with a weird color combo and special options too. Probably always a special order.
Regarding Nissan/Infiniti, all seems like a good way to explain away lost sales due to an aging model lineup to me. I am not sure how much cross shopping really goes on there anyway, people who really want a Lexus don't seem to like other cars.
I am not the one who picked that one case as an example.
What sales volume was the CT ever expected to have anyway? Never meant to be the leader, just a new model after the HS failed so loudly. And I have mentioned the CT in this case numerous times, and you know it.
Supply of old models is shorter, but there are no empty lots. Dealers can play hardball all they want, some will win at it, some won't. I see nothing showing the SINGLE new model was going to be a significant part of sales to begin with.
Lexus has a boring aging lineup that primarily appeals to people who don't really care much for cars or driving or being alive. The competition has capitalized on this. Deal with it.
HS outsells the MKZ hybrid, it's closest competitor, 2 to 1. So the Lincoln is twice the failure...LOL.
And what about the Germans? They are now launching their own hybrids left and right, after swearing up and down diesels were sufficient. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em? They are all following Lexus. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
No one has truly figured out how to sell a luxury hybrid. Let's see if the CT can break that pattern. Or anything else for that matter.
Of course there are no empty lots, but the selection is dwindling and of course that affects sales. You can't deny this is a clear case of supply and demand.
That last sentence sums up your biases nicely.
Never mind the LF-A, or the IS-F that just HUMILIATED Mercedes' AMG models on the Lightning Lap. I bet you'd still buy the slower car.
Let's go ahead and stereotype all Lexus buyers while we're at it. Just goes to show how few of them you know.
You asked for examples and I offered you a dozen or so (edit: 15 examples actually). Every one of those examples directly contradicts what you've been saying.
Lincoln hasn't succeeded at much lately. Not the best example. But if something like Nissan is "stealing" sales...not a good sign. Also wonder how many HS were given away in loss leading leases several months ago. It failed, deal with it.
Diesels have been sufficient everywhere but here. Maybe a reason why Lexus is so invisible in the rest of the developed, or even more developed, world. Where is someone imitating Lexus, which models are copies?
A fun debate could be had about how much of a luxury car a 30K hatchback CT really is...
LF-A - grossly overpriced, not a regular production car, irrelevant. IS-F, beat who, by what, when? CTS-V has beat some too, so what?
I don't know every Lexus driver, but there are an awful lot of them in my area, and they don't seem to be very enthusiastic. I go to a MB club show every year here, haven't seen any local Lexus clubs.
I didn't see any examples of actual shortages, sorry. Just dealers playing games or someone whining because they couldn't get a sport trim package on a lowline model (typical poser rofl) in a weird color right off the lot. Nothing proven, just excuses for arguably the most boring brand on the planet.
Not too worried about the mileage, but more, of course would be better. I drive 1,200 miles a month. I sat in all the Fords and the head rests all jutted foward, hitting the back of my head. I'm 5'10". The Durango and Jeep GC look better to me (never thought I'd say that) but I worry a bit about reliability. The wife unit had a '96 Sebring Conv. that was in the shop a lot; kind of left a bad taste. And my experences with GM was much to be desired. Since '98, I've had a Tundra and two 4Runners that never had a problem. But I'm willing to give the D3 another chance. Back on topic: I love the new Charger commercial where the guy jumps on the hood and puts his fist through the windshield (ah, young love!). I hope the glass is a little thicker that that!
Lincoln hasn't succeeded at much lately. Not the best example
OK, but HS outsells the A3 TDI by a wide margin, too. Name a better selling green luxury car.
deal with it
What do I care? I don't own a Lexus, or stock in Toyota. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, trying to keep you honest. It's hard...
Where is someone imitating Lexus
Toyota/Lexus pioneered hybrids, and now the Germans are coming out with hybrids, lots of them. S-class for starters.
IS-F, beat who
Car & Driver Lightning Lap, tied the M3 and clobbered the AMG C- and E- models.
haven't seen any local Lexus clubs
It's obvious you haven't looked.
I didn't see any examples of actual shortages
I think people talking about driving 15 hours to pick up a Lexus qualifies as a regional shortage at a minimum.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Any how, back to the topic, BMW had fun at Mercedes' expense for years, teasing them about not offering enough manual transmissions for enthusiasts. FFwd to 4:28 in this video:
Good question. Other than wanting to buy a domestic this time (for personal reasons), I'm having a hard time finding a comfortable driving position in the Runner. It's driving me nuts! And if the wind's blowing over 15 mph, the vehicle feels like a flying brick. I know the Jeep is also a high profile vehicle. I'll have to test drive it when it's windy, which is like always in Texas.
Diesel is the kiss of death for the dumbed down American mass market, and you know it. CT a luxury car? Tough call there. It's a nice car or even a neat car, but a luxury car? Nope.
You mean Toyota pioneered hybrids, they picked a winner. Lexus didn't pioneer as Lexus doesn't even really operate on an independent level. MB pioneered diesel, I guess every trusty old diesel hilux and landcruiser needs to pay homage to the Germans then?
I see no examples of meetings and shows by local Lexus clubs, and certainly nothing officially sanctioned - as the enthusiast base doesn't exist.
One test by a magazine. OK.
Nobody knows the details of the cars these people wanted or the price they were trying to pay, just some nut who wanted a poserfied IS250. what was the shortage, what model couldn't they get, how much of a discount were they wanting, how did these prices compare to TMV? It's all anecdotal.
MB hasn't offered manuals in NA on most models for more than a generation, and never anywhere in the tuned cars. Hasn't seemed to hurt anything. The vast majority of BMWs sold here are auto as well. But marketing works in its own wold.
I don't know of anyone who considers an A-class to be in the same universe as near lux. Go to Europe, it's just an econobox, one that car renters revile as much as the PT Cruiser here.
MB pioneered the use of diesel engines in large scale production, and in passenger cars. Diesel also came from German stock and moved back to Germany as a teenager...
No shortages. I can run down and get what I want, maybe not a LF-A or a lime green IS250 with sport trim and an AM radio, or a new RX for 20% under MSRP, but otherwise, no, and it doesn't explain away the gains being made by others.
People driving hours and hours = regional shortages.
Let's agree to disagree.
Audi is flush with new product and that's why they have gains. This is a normal part of the life cycle of automobiles, and comes as no surprise. Will they sustain that growth as those products age? We shall see.
Audi has been on the upswing since the revised A6 13 years ago. I think they have a few more life cycles of steam left in them. Longterm reliability of 2005+ models will determine a bit too.
I'd go even further back - it was the 1997 A4 that started turning things around for Audi, 15 years or so ago.
They are flush with new product right now...the A4 is only a couple of years old, the A6 is new, the A7 is new, the Q7 isn't brand new but it's fresher than competitors, the Q5 is fresh...
All their high volume products are new.
Lexus is the opposite. Only the RX is fresh, and it's doing fine. The ES is ancient, 2007 I think it came out IIRC. The GS and IS are even older - 2006?
The other new-ish Lexus is the GX and it's sales are also up, so it's doing OK.
I'm not sure what people expected from the HS, it's the best selling hybrid or diesel in its price range or higher.
This is a normal part of any car's life cycle. Lexus will have a new GS, a new IS, and probably a new ES within a year or so. The ES in particular is an important volume model for them.
You poke fun at Lexus, and that's OK, but you're inconsistent - in one breath you say Lexus owners don't consider anything else, in the next you say Audi is stealing sales away from Lexus.
You contradict yourself directly in your eagerness to insult Lexus in any way you can. That's not OK.
The B5 A4 came to NA for 1996, I think. Either way, it did hint at upcoming design prowess, but some of the older ones are very troublesome and I don't know if the car had much of an image. But the C5 A6 was seen as a design revelation when it first showed up, and got people to look. It was ahead of its time.
IS and GS are indeed that old...I can't imagine why anyone would buy a new GS. LS is also getting up there. HS is impossible to compare as nothing competes with it - and the way they were laughably being given away in sweetheart leases not long ago speaks volumes. Hopefully for them the CT will make up for it.
Lexus, like all highline makers, has a devoted fanbase - although in this case most are not really enthusiasts. It also has a lot of those who just like to be seen. These are the ones who jump ship. I never said every Lexus owner was devoted...hell, I'd wager a significant amount of money the majority don't know the brand is Toyota...
If something isn't OK to you, you are free to ignore it :P I haven't seen anything from Lexus that would make a person want to defend it, myself. I think the inability of the brand to succeed in other markets is telling. Even their commercials are pretentious or lame.
That A4 started the styling revolution at Audi...it was a real looker. The design aged well, too.
LS is also, what, 6 years or so in to its life cycle?
Life cycles of 6-8 years are perfectly normal in the luxury segment, I don't have to tell you that. You just seeemed to imply that Lexus took longer than most to refresh them - that's not true.
It just so happens that right now Lexus has several models towards the end of that cycle.
But when a car is dull to begin with, it needs a little more, in a subjective way it ages faster. Is any new highline car more invisible than a GS? It's right up there with the RL.
Having everything age off at once might not be the best strategy, as others gain momentum. Those new models better be exceptional in more ways than isolation.
I wasn't looking for "random websites" actually, I went to what I thought were the largest ones out there.
My point was that 154 thousand members to me, either says that lexus does have alot more enthusiasts than you give credit for, or there are alot more "posuers" (your term, not mine) who like to waste alot of time and bandwith signing up for a "non-enthusiasts" sites for no reason...
Heck, even GMI, which IS the largest and most recognizable Government Motors "enthusiast" site out there, only has 54 thousand members...
I own a Toyota and I think that's about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. You couldn't pay me to join. The moderators on a company-owned site could delete any criticisms.
That's beyond drinking the Kool-aid, it's a whole Kool-aid store for blind-folded fanboys. No thanks.
{plug for Edmunds coming....}
Great thing about a place like this is we can speak our minds, exercise free speech, agree and, yes, disagree. But we have the freedom to say the things we want to say.
A one-brand forum hosted or even sponsored by [insert manufacturer name here] simply could never have that sort of independence.
That makes even less sense, as the GM brand collective has much more of an enthusiast base than Lexus, which almost doesn't exist outside of this continent and has historically offered very little in the way of interesting or exciting vehicles.
Makes me wonder about those "members", did Diebold do the calculations?
Great thing about a place like this is we can speak our minds, exercise free speech, agree and, yes, disagree. But we have the freedom to say the things we want to say.
ES is much cheaper and even blander - which sells to the lukewarm vanilla sheep in this world. Impossible to compare them apples to apples, as they are not.
When you can lease a 42k+ vehicle for 399/month, they might sell. My local dealer uses them for loaners too, maybe some "sales" there as well.
That makes even less sense, as the GM brand collective has much more of an enthusiast base than Lexus
GM enthusiasts base has been shrinking for decades when they went away from muscle cars to rental cars (Pontiac, Chevy), and cars to make my grandparents proud (Olds, Buick, Cadillac cars) and cars for the blinged out gangbangers (Escalades)...
The Cobalt SS is dead, the Kappa cars are dead, the G8 is dead, heck Pontiac is dead! What's left for excitement are the Camaro, Vette and the V-series (which is down to just one model, the CTS)
Makes me wonder about those "members", did Diebold do the calculations?
Couldn't the same be said in the Mercedes forums? :confuse:
Anyways, I apologize that I have chosen an angle of reference that you do not agree with. To me, a forum with a number of "enthusiast" members says to me that well, there are a lot of people that are Lexus fans, not just the housewives who drive lexus SUV's. The IS series, "F" line and LFA are not cars that I would consider cut from the same mold as the RX or the LS for instance.
But carry on with your dislike for anything Lexus (or anything asian for that matter), it's a free world
Comments
On a more serious note, that's a good question. Sales v. year-ago sales for Toyota will be colored by the UA issue affecting last year's sales.
Maybe overall industry sales + market share by manufacturer? That way if one manufacturer is having supply problems, their market share might drop as other manufacturers - the ones with cars to sell - get to steal customers.
To a casual tire-kicker, of course that's what they'll say.
To a serious buyer, who sits down to really buy something, I'm sure they'll reveal that they're out of stock on half the colors, including the more popular ones.
Their inventory is half the ideal size. That's not my opinion, that's fact.
Enough beating a dead horse, let's move on...
That sums it up nicely.
Nissan is winning big because they don't depend nearly as much on production in Japan. Perhaps Carlos "le cost cutter" Ghosn phased out expensive Japan-built parts?
Side note: check out Outlander supply - with some incentives and some marketing Mitsubishi has a glut of those on lots and could steal a bunch of sales...
Is the Pentastar V6 any more fuel efficient than your 4Runner? Of course you could use gas prices to your advantage when negotiating.
I do like the new Durango, though. Much nicer materials, a much better effort this go-round. My only nit-pick is the Nav screen is tiny.
Dodge tends to market toward the "Neanderthal Male", as I like to call it, so it's no wonder those ads got your testosterone pumping.
There might be a mere month of stock sitting around, but I have used the google and can't find claims of anyone being told they can't have what they want. Have you seen anything different?
I guess that's about par for a class that isn't known for efficiency, though.
I sat in the Citadel at the auto show. Nice, soft leather, love the two-tone and the smells. There was wear on the seats, but it's a show car that gets a lot of traffic, FWIW.
I haven't looked...
The 32 day supply says enough to satisfy my curiosity.
Rumor has it incentives are coming back so that number could continue to drop.
Less stock, but no shortage. Doesn't seem like an issue - might actually be more efficient, if anything.
Also, supply is ramping back up, albeit slowly.
I would need to special order it and it would take 60-90 days.
It took me a while to find the car with the right price
The car will be factory ordered
In the LA area might be tough because I also asked for their quotes for the IS250 with F-sport package and their prices are significantly higher.
Generally sounds like prices are up across the board, and people are having to wait for factory orders, plus this is for an old model that traditionally isn't even in high demand.
Consistent with a 32 day supply of cars, so no surprise, to me at least.
Could I have gotten a better price? probably if I negotiated more
what should I expect to pay to have the car shipped?
St. Louis was a 13 hour drive for me, and I was able to find an AWD in sunny Florida with a five hour drive...not as good a "deal" but the hassle factor of driving, staying overnight, etc.. just made the Florida dealer make sense. If you contact him, tell him the girl from Florida recommended him!
Lexus in the Houston area will not budge on their pricing right now. Supply and Demand
We moved on and got the 2011 Buick Enclave CXL-1 instead.
I found one two hours from my location (Charlotte, NC)
they didn't tell me the color choice avail to me
when I tried that price at the other two dealers in my area, they wouldn't budge for it....
seems very hard to negotiate to that price range. Anyone have recently purchased this car in Raleigh area? Which dealer is better in this area? I am willing to drive several hours if I can get a good deal.
And by the way that's just from ONE PAGE of posts!
Regarding Nissan/Infiniti, all seems like a good way to explain away lost sales due to an aging model lineup to me. I am not sure how much cross shopping really goes on there anyway, people who really want a Lexus don't seem to like other cars.
You complain about an aged lineup, true, but you yourself excluded their only new model from this discussion (CT200h).
Supply of old models is short, supply of new models is non-existent. That one guy ran out and bought an Enclave.
You are so blindly biased, it's ridiculous.
What sales volume was the CT ever expected to have anyway? Never meant to be the leader, just a new model after the HS failed so loudly. And I have mentioned the CT in this case numerous times, and you know it.
Supply of old models is shorter, but there are no empty lots. Dealers can play hardball all they want, some will win at it, some won't. I see nothing showing the SINGLE new model was going to be a significant part of sales to begin with.
Lexus has a boring aging lineup that primarily appeals to people who don't really care much for cars or driving or being alive. The competition has capitalized on this. Deal with it.
And what about the Germans? They are now launching their own hybrids left and right, after swearing up and down diesels were sufficient. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em? They are all following Lexus. Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
No one has truly figured out how to sell a luxury hybrid. Let's see if the CT can break that pattern. Or anything else for that matter.
Of course there are no empty lots, but the selection is dwindling and of course that affects sales. You can't deny this is a clear case of supply and demand.
That last sentence sums up your biases nicely.
Never mind the LF-A, or the IS-F that just HUMILIATED Mercedes' AMG models on the Lightning Lap. I bet you'd still buy the slower car.
Let's go ahead and stereotype all Lexus buyers while we're at it. Just goes to show how few of them you know.
You asked for examples and I offered you a dozen or so (edit: 15 examples actually). Every one of those examples directly contradicts what you've been saying.
Diesels have been sufficient everywhere but here. Maybe a reason why Lexus is so invisible in the rest of the developed, or even more developed, world. Where is someone imitating Lexus, which models are copies?
A fun debate could be had about how much of a luxury car a 30K hatchback CT really is...
LF-A - grossly overpriced, not a regular production car, irrelevant. IS-F, beat who, by what, when? CTS-V has beat some too, so what?
I don't know every Lexus driver, but there are an awful lot of them in my area, and they don't seem to be very enthusiastic. I go to a MB club show every year here, haven't seen any local Lexus clubs.
I didn't see any examples of actual shortages, sorry. Just dealers playing games or someone whining because they couldn't get a sport trim package on a lowline model (typical poser rofl) in a weird color right off the lot. Nothing proven, just excuses for arguably the most boring brand on the planet.
Back on topic: I love the new Charger commercial where the guy jumps on the hood and puts his fist through the windshield (ah, young love!). I hope the glass is a little thicker that that!
OK, but HS outsells the A3 TDI by a wide margin, too. Name a better selling green luxury car.
deal with it
What do I care? I don't own a Lexus, or stock in Toyota. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate, trying to keep you honest. It's hard...
Where is someone imitating Lexus
Toyota/Lexus pioneered hybrids, and now the Germans are coming out with hybrids, lots of them. S-class for starters.
IS-F, beat who
Car & Driver Lightning Lap, tied the M3 and clobbered the AMG C- and E- models.
haven't seen any local Lexus clubs
It's obvious you haven't looked.
I didn't see any examples of actual shortages
I think people talking about driving 15 hours to pick up a Lexus qualifies as a regional shortage at a minimum.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
Any how, back to the topic, BMW had fun at Mercedes' expense for years, teasing them about not offering enough manual transmissions for enthusiasts. FFwd to 4:28 in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3R9IpAQ6xo
They also had print ads showing the same manual stick shift, again poking fun at rivals.
So why not get another?
Let's see if the Pentastar V6 proves to be a reliable powertrain. Output is competitive for its class.
You mean Toyota pioneered hybrids, they picked a winner. Lexus didn't pioneer as Lexus doesn't even really operate on an independent level. MB pioneered diesel, I guess every trusty old diesel hilux and landcruiser needs to pay homage to the Germans then?
I see no examples of meetings and shows by local Lexus clubs, and certainly nothing officially sanctioned - as the enthusiast base doesn't exist.
One test by a magazine. OK.
Nobody knows the details of the cars these people wanted or the price they were trying to pay, just some nut who wanted a poserfied IS250. what was the shortage, what model couldn't they get, how much of a discount were they wanting, how did these prices compare to TMV? It's all anecdotal.
MB hasn't offered manuals in NA on most models for more than a generation, and never anywhere in the tuned cars. Hasn't seemed to hurt anything. The vast majority of BMWs sold here are auto as well. But marketing works in its own wold.
Best of luck shopping around.
As much near-luxury as the Audi A3 it competes against, or the Benz A-class that may finally make it to the USA.
Rudolf Diesel was born in France.
You asked for anecdotes and I provided 15 of them. You asked for sources and I used Automotive News' supply chart, but you dismissed that too.
Here's what you wrote:
I have used the google and can't find claims of anyone being told they can't have what they want. Have you seen anything different?
Yes, I have. And now you have as well.
Anyone else think even the music resembles the Chrysler 200/Eminem super bowl ad?
Check out the guitar, even the first few notes are the same.
Link to the Imported from Detroit ad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc
MB pioneered the use of diesel engines in large scale production, and in passenger cars. Diesel also came from German stock and moved back to Germany as a teenager...
No shortages. I can run down and get what I want, maybe not a LF-A or a lime green IS250 with sport trim and an AM radio, or a new RX for 20% under MSRP, but otherwise, no, and it doesn't explain away the gains being made by others.
Let's agree to disagree.
Audi is flush with new product and that's why they have gains. This is a normal part of the life cycle of automobiles, and comes as no surprise. Will they sustain that growth as those products age? We shall see.
Done
Audi has been on the upswing since the revised A6 13 years ago. I think they have a few more life cycles of steam left in them. Longterm reliability of 2005+ models will determine a bit too.
They are flush with new product right now...the A4 is only a couple of years old, the A6 is new, the A7 is new, the Q7 isn't brand new but it's fresher than competitors, the Q5 is fresh...
All their high volume products are new.
Lexus is the opposite. Only the RX is fresh, and it's doing fine. The ES is ancient, 2007 I think it came out IIRC. The GS and IS are even older - 2006?
The other new-ish Lexus is the GX and it's sales are also up, so it's doing OK.
I'm not sure what people expected from the HS, it's the best selling hybrid or diesel in its price range or higher.
This is a normal part of any car's life cycle. Lexus will have a new GS, a new IS, and probably a new ES within a year or so. The ES in particular is an important volume model for them.
You poke fun at Lexus, and that's OK, but you're inconsistent - in one breath you say Lexus owners don't consider anything else, in the next you say Audi is stealing sales away from Lexus.
You contradict yourself directly in your eagerness to insult Lexus in any way you can. That's not OK.
IS and GS are indeed that old...I can't imagine why anyone would buy a new GS. LS is also getting up there. HS is impossible to compare as nothing competes with it - and the way they were laughably being given away in sweetheart leases not long ago speaks volumes. Hopefully for them the CT will make up for it.
Lexus, like all highline makers, has a devoted fanbase - although in this case most are not really enthusiasts. It also has a lot of those who just like to be seen. These are the ones who jump ship. I never said every Lexus owner was devoted...hell, I'd wager a significant amount of money the majority don't know the brand is Toyota...
If something isn't OK to you, you are free to ignore it :P I haven't seen anything from Lexus that would make a person want to defend it, myself. I think the inability of the brand to succeed in other markets is telling. Even their commercials are pretentious or lame.
LS is also, what, 6 years or so in to its life cycle?
Life cycles of 6-8 years are perfectly normal in the luxury segment, I don't have to tell you that. You just seeemed to imply that Lexus took longer than most to refresh them - that's not true.
It just so happens that right now Lexus has several models towards the end of that cycle.
clublexus
The mercedes forum, which I am assuming is the biggest and most popular out there, has a little over 73 thousand members...
mercedesforum
If we're just going to use random websites, MBWorld and Benzworld are also very active, among others. The other brands have similar.
Having everything age off at once might not be the best strategy, as others gain momentum. Those new models better be exceptional in more ways than isolation.
My point was that 154 thousand members to me, either says that lexus does have alot more enthusiasts than you give credit for, or there are alot more "posuers" (your term, not mine) who like to waste alot of time and bandwith signing up for a "non-enthusiasts" sites for no reason...
Heck, even GMI, which IS the largest and most recognizable Government Motors "enthusiast" site out there, only has 54 thousand members...
GMI
Why would anyone join a club owned by the manufacturer?
Independent is far better. It's essential, actually.
Having everything age off at once might not be the best strategy
Agreed. They just focused on other things - trucks and hybrids mostly.
HS sells more than you think, you were surprised in another thread last time I shared actual sales numbers.
Why indeed? Marketing. :shades:
Salesforce.com to build private label social network for Toyota. (ZD Net)
I own a Toyota and I think that's about the dumbest idea I've ever heard. You couldn't pay me to join. The moderators on a company-owned site could delete any criticisms.
That's beyond drinking the Kool-aid, it's a whole Kool-aid store for blind-folded fanboys. No thanks.
{plug for Edmunds coming....}
Great thing about a place like this is we can speak our minds, exercise free speech, agree and, yes, disagree. But we have the freedom to say the things we want to say.
A one-brand forum hosted or even sponsored by [insert manufacturer name here] simply could never have that sort of independence.
Makes me wonder about those "members", did Diebold do the calculations?
Well... sort of...
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When you can lease a 42k+ vehicle for 399/month, they might sell. My local dealer uses them for loaners too, maybe some "sales" there as well.
Does Lexus have anything like MBCA and its worldwide counterparts, or the similar enthusiast clubs that exist for others?
Neither one interests me in the least.
What if, for instance, you want to create a database of common problems? Or perhaps document a procedure to over-ride a speed limiter?
They're just gonna block those shots. No thanks.
GM enthusiasts base has been shrinking for decades when they went away from muscle cars to rental cars (Pontiac, Chevy), and cars to make my grandparents proud (Olds, Buick, Cadillac cars) and cars for the blinged out gangbangers (Escalades)...
The Cobalt SS is dead, the Kappa cars are dead, the G8 is dead, heck Pontiac is dead! What's left for excitement are the Camaro, Vette and the V-series (which is down to just one model, the CTS)
Makes me wonder about those "members", did Diebold do the calculations?
Couldn't the same be said in the Mercedes forums? :confuse:
Anyways, I apologize that I have chosen an angle of reference that you do not agree with. To me, a forum with a number of "enthusiast" members says to me that well, there are a lot of people that are Lexus fans, not just the housewives who drive lexus SUV's. The IS series, "F" line and LFA are not cars that I would consider cut from the same mold as the RX or the LS for instance.
But carry on with your dislike for anything Lexus (or anything asian for that matter), it's a free world
It's much more active than I thought.