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I do like the idea of a diesel-electric hybrid though...the Germans were supposed to get that going by now (original S400 plans were for diesel hybrid), but got distracted by more boring products. And yeah, the diesel will be too cool for the lowest common denominator NA market.
Funny thing, the boxy and angular looking W212 E-class also has a drag coefficient of 0.25. When styling is too aggressive, it can be a little comical. But that thing isn't derivative, I will give it that.
I have a Acura TL and the base car comes fully loaded with everything, except the navigation system! thats what I love about Acura - if you want one, all you do is walk into the dealership choose the model and color you want and then all the salesman will ask is do you want that with nav or not! and thats it your done, there are NO package options, like Hyundai, Nissan, Toyota, etc; which is why getting a Acura is the easiest of all the other cars I have had! its too bad no one else, not even Acura's parent company Honda, makes the process this easy! while I love my new Maxima, that is one big gripe I have with Nissan; they make the buying process so incredibly difficult because they have too many different., complicated, and expensive packaging options!
The G35X was a base G loaded with a premium package which gives you all the fancy normal tech stuff, like power seats, dual climate control, moonroof, heated seats, etc! so again its not a stripped car
I gave you two separate examples of vehicles to prove my point; unfortunately, I have a life and I don't have all day getting all the models from the luxury and mainstream brand to prove my point!
There is a source for my information because I remember reading a article about it; the problem is that was 1-2 years ago; I'm going to have to go down into my basement and go through all the car mags I have and try to find it but it will take me awhile because I subscribe to several different mags over the years and I don't remember what mag its from so its going to take awhile to go through all of them!
Obviously, since it appears anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't know what he's talking about can work both ways backy
But here is a simple thing when it comes to luxury cars, and this can apply to the Genesis too, and you proved my point with that loaded M45 example you gave, when you get a luxury car, if you want to get something that holds its value much better and much longer don't get the tech, nav, sports packages and V8 models!! all these things lower the resale value so much that as you pointed out that M45 lost considerably more value then the altima you were comparing it against because of all those packages that it had! but if you noticed that my G35X example held its valued considerably much better than that M45 did, because it had a V6, no sport, tech, or nav packages!
Thats why when I get a luxury car, I get a V6, no tech, nav, or sport packages and thus those cars can hold their value much better! Like I said to the other guy on here, you can get a luxury car, IF YOU LOAD IT UP PROPERLY, without breaking the bank and without killing your resale value!
But factory navigation systems are the biggest killer of resale value!
I think for instance, with the Genesis, the V6 version would hold its value better than the V8! a V8 Genesis with the nav system is probably your worst bet for losing the most resale value of the various Genesis trims
When did I say you didn't know what you are talking about? Or dismiss you as a "slobbering" fan of luxury brands? Try not to mistake disagreement with someone's opinion with belittling them. But it would help a lot if you could find some third-party evidence to support your contention that luxury brands have a higher resale value than their mainstream counterpart brands.
This is a simple concept, really. The luxury cars lose more of their value in general over time than mainstream cars because the luxury cars start at a higher price point. There is more profit built into them, meaning there is more room to get a discounted price off list on a luxury car than on something like a Camry or Altima. So you could easily get a $10k discount on a new luxury sedan, but good luck getting half that off a mainstream sedan. Those discounts are taken into account in used car pricing. It's hard to make up that differential down the road.
One of the reasons the Genesis sedan does well against its Sonata counterpart in retained value is that the price of the Genesis is relatively low to begin with, vs. other luxury cars. Also it's a relatively new and rare model, and you don't see the huge discounts off list like you do on some others like the M.
Yes, I can buy a "basic luxury" car with no options, and a 6 cylinder engine. And they will have in general better percentage of retained value than a loaded luxury car. But you can play that game with the mainstream cars too, as we have already seen (see the example of the no-options G37 you priced out vs. the Altima 3.5SE I priced out--the Altima has better retained value, even though they are pretty close in engine and features).
Cars are a depreciating asset. They don't depreciate less as you pay more for the car. That's my story and I'm sticking with it, until I see evidence to the contrary--on a brand level, not individual car samples.
Kinda like trying to argue that there is no way the Aints could win the Super Bowl--too much tradition and history and other baggage to ever allow that. Oh wait... they DID win the Super Bowl.
that is why your comparisons are so ridiculous to try and disprove my point; you can't stand that my examples disprove your point and now your trying to turn it around and blame it on that they are stripped down models when they are not; you'll do anything to try and be right!
each luxury division had 2-3 models that offer either I4 or V6 engines, premium packages that give you all the typical luxury stuff, dual moonroof, cooled/heated front seats, heated steering wheel, dual zone climate control, power rear sunshade, rearview camera, heated/power folding mirrors, MID, HID, etc etc etc and I know there is other things I am missing!
that is why you and acdii are no ridiculous in the idea that luxury cars are a waste and that people who get them just throw money down the toilet; you try and make these ridiculous claims that all true luxury cars are these big V8, navigation, tech, and sport equipped vehicles that are so expensive that they lose more resale value than their mainstream counterparts but can't stand that fact that when people like me who don't agree with you and give you proof that there are plenty of luxury cars with V6s and semi-loaded with stuff that are just as good if not better at keeping their resale values better than their mainstream counterparts, you try to find fault where there isn't any and then claim "oh yeah that doesn't prove anything because they are stripped" - if that is the way you and acdii feel, then you should have no problem saying that the Genesis with the V8 and Nav at almost $44k is a waste of money?
I'm not the only one then that seems to have a problem when someone doesn't agree with me!
if you don't have the cars you can't make a blanket statement like that; my Acura TL is NOT A STRIPPED DOWN car nor is my Infiniti :mad: until you have a BMW, Audi, MB, Acura, Infiniti, or Lexus in your driveway, I think you better stick to talking about Hyundai!
V6 or I6, yes. I4? Which cars do BMW, Lexus, Infiniti, and MB offer in the US with I4s? None that I am aware of. Although I know BMW is planning to apply DI I4s in the not-too-distant future.
Does your TL have a dual moonroof? Heated steering wheel? Power-folding mirrors? Rearview camera? Or is it a "stripped" luxury car that offers a nice complement of features but not all the "luxury stuff" you mentioned?
that is why you and acdii are no ridiculous in the idea that luxury cars are a waste and that people who get them just throw money down the toilet;
Uh, when did I say or even hint that luxury cars are a waste and people who get them throw money down the toilet? Didn't you read what I just said: all cars are depreciating assets. You throw your money down the toilet no matter what car you buy, except in those rare cases where you buy a car that becomes a classic and if you hold onto it long enough and keep it in perfect condition, you might actually get more when you sell it than you paid for it. If using your hard-earned money to buy a luxury car gives you pleasure, and you can afford it, go for it!
I suggested earlier you read my profile to see what cars I have owned. I see you didn't. I'd put the BMW I owned against your almost-a-luxury-car TL any day.
BMW is overrated! never really cared for them! highly subjective of course, but thats just how I feel about them; except for the heated steering wheel, which my Maxima has, and I didn't have to pay a lot of money to get one! my TL has all those features I mentioned :P; I take solace in the knowledge that all the luxury features that came standard on my Acura would have costs me thousands of dollars extra on a BMW and my Acura is going to hold its value a heck of a lot better than its BMW counterpart and thus the financial benefit and more bang for the buck I got with my Acura over the BMW was a no brainier!
I'd put my luxury TL against your sports car trying to be luxury BMW anyday!
FWIW, what was the sticker price on your TL and what year is it? What we can do is check the current value of it and compare it to, say, a same-year Accord EX-L (with nav if yours has nav).
plus, we don't need to do another TL vs Accord comparison, I already did one a couple posts ago almost similar to my own TL and a Accord EX-L V6 from the same year and the TL held more of its value then the Accord did; go back and check that post, I think it was 2 pages ago!
2009 Hyundai Genesis V6 Long-Term Test (Inside Line)
I really do consider the HSD powertrain to be different than an "I4". If you don't, so be it. At least I am aware that BMW doesn't put V6s into its cars here. :P
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Really? I think its mostly just the way the industry has evolved. Look at older cars A/C, power windows, locks, steering and brakes were major options. Today you would be hard pressed to find any car that doesn't have standard equipment that rivals luxury makes of thirty years ago. Heck, my GFs Elantra has pretty much everything my 79 Continental had except for power seats and my Conti was fully equipped for its time.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
For instance, a loaded new Genesis costs about as much in raw dollars as a new W126 S-class did in 1981 - at that time by far the most advanced sedan in the world. But the newer car, even at a lower market position, has so much more technology and ability, it's impossible to describe.
I agree with Backy's statement. Buying a car is not an investment. You lose money on brand new cars. The moment you drive off the lot, I think you lost about a grand! Pretty silly I think but true nonetheless.
Luxury cars holding their value could mean many things but still a bad investment.
Take for example, let's say an Acura MDX may hold it's value at 77% but it costs $40,000.
In contrast, a cheapo Accent could be worth 55% but it's out the door price is $12,000.
According to these fictitious numbers, the resale value of the Acura at 77% would be $30,800 and the Accent would be $6,600. At a lower percentage of depreciation, the Acura lost $9,200 while, at a higher percentage of depreciation, the Accent lost $5,400. $30,800 is still > $6,600 but you get the point. You lose less by buying a lesser expensive car.
These are not real numbers but rather an exaggeration of real world numbers. I don't think most people buy luxury vehicles to hold their value. They buy them to for status, comfort, safety, refinement etc.. If you buy them thinking that you're saving money, be my guest. But you're only fooling yourself. And I didn't even mention the maintenance cost of luxury vehicles. Exponentially more costly than commoner cars.
Real world numbers would actually show the Accent saving way more than $4,000 than the Acura. And luxury car owners lose more money more than lesser car owners more often than not.
I will disagree with that. An investment is defined as an outlay of funds to incur a profit or income. Also remember that "profit" is not always monetary. Being an investment does not always means selling it for more than you bought it for.
At the very least most people profit/receive income from their cars by allowing them to get to more profitable jobs at less cost in time and/or money.
At the most it allows people to enjoy activities (yes that can be included in "profit") that they normally do for enjoyment.
In short if you don't think that a car is an investment sell your car and see how much more time and/or money you spend in public transportation, cabs and renting cars to maintain what you do now.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
any car is a bad investment, even buying a Hyundai is a bad investment, but there are different degrees of these bad investments, in that vehicles that hold their values better, ie Japanese and Korean vehicles, will not cost you AS MUCH money to have, in the long run then a vehicle with a much lower resale value (ie chevrolet or chrysler) because when you go to sell it you'll get more money for it obviously then a vehicle that had depreciated substantially more!
your last sentence of your post I don't agree with, maybe that is the case with people who buy super expensive luxury cars that are loaded with high depreciating features, such as V8s, tech package, sport packages, and most importantly navigation systems! but I have spent more money on my mainstream GM and other cars then I ever had on my luxury vehicles that I currently have! also, luxury vehicles are only more money to maintain if your stupid enough to use the dealerships for maintenance work! I never have used them because of how outrageous they are priced, and I hate to break it to you but Hyundai and the other mainstream companies are not that much cheaper! they still are a huge rip-off! For years I have taken my luxury vehicles to reputable and trusted 3rd party places for tires, oil, filters, and fluid checks, etc!! and have paid almost 3 quarters less then any luxury or mainstream dealership would ridiculously charge you and have never run into any trouble with problems on my vehicles because I took them to outside places rather then be hosed by the dealerships!
I'm not going to go over specific numbers anymore because people like you and backy try to give examples to prove your point and I've been able to get numbers to prove my point so what does that tells us, absolutely nothing :sick:
but I still hold my position, that if you get the right kind of luxury car, and load it up properly, you don't have to break the bank and still be in a luxury car- the Genesis is a great example of this, you can get a semi-loaded V6 Genesis in or around the mid 30k's - you'll get some nice tech features, no nav system of course, have V6 engine and it will hold its value pretty well, and plus you'll be in a luxury car!!!
because of how EVERY car is not an investment and, as you pointed out, they depreciate terribly as soon as you leave the lot, that is why I lease most of my vehicles; I had this conversation with a general manager at a Infiniti and Acura dealer one time; as he pointed out, if you think about, because of how badly cars depreciate, have to be repaired and maintained, you'll never get any of your money back on them! that being the case, it actually makes more financial sense to lease a car and only pay for the time your using it and let someone else, since you don't hold the title, hold all the responsibility and depreciation costs these cars incur!"
now I've done this most of the time, unfortunately there has been 1 or 2 cars over the years that I have loved and enjoyed so much and had no problems with that I purchased the car at the end of the lease!
what I'm trying to say is, I'm not defending luxury cars or even Hyundai for that matter that luxury cars are perfect and you don't lose money on them, of course you are, but there is nothing wrong with getting a luxury cars IF you can afford them! according to the way backy and yourself talk about luxury cars then I guess you guys better NOT get a Genesis because that is a luxury car for status, comfort, safety, and refinement!
Getting married, going to college, buying a house - now those are real true investments!! :shades:
Sorry if you want what makes the most financial sense buy a car and hold it until it starts to fall apart. If you always lease a car you will always have a car payment, if you buy a car and keep it after 4 or 5 years you will no longer have a car payment.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Is a car an investment? yes it is. Why? because having a car 1.) gives me greater earning power by being able to get to better paying jobs in a reasonable amount of time and 2). saves me time (over public transportation) and money (over rentals and cabs) over not owning a car.
You see an investment can just lower costs (costs measured not only in dollars) so if you think a car is not an investment try living without one and see what you are paying (in time, money and inconvinence).
If you are saying you will never sell it for what you paid for it then I agree with you, but thats not what every investment is.
Lets put it into another light. A manufacturing company buys a punch press for say $10K uses it for 10 years and then sells it for $500. Was it an investment? Yes it was even though they lost $9,500 on it. Thats because that punch press was used to either produce goods or reduce costs.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Right? I mean, it's true, they cost a lot of money, money that you'll never recuperate. But, as snake points out, if you don't have a rig you're going to spend a lot of money and hassle on taking taxicabs and buses, etc.
To me cars are a labor of love. I'm thinking of going more "luxury" with my next rig, but honestly I think that Mitsubishi "sporty" is probably what I love the most and what I will stay with.
The people in India now can experience the "luxury" of owning a Tata Nano, for instance! Better than a bike or walking, eh?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
you need to learn to take criticism better man!
you have your point I have mine, I have proof that I have spent less money on cars leasing then when I was buying every single one!
logic escapes me how you can say a car is a good investment, when the second you take it off the lot, having no wear, accidents, problems, etc it loses thousands of dollars in its value despite the fact that nothing has happen to it- cars depreciate, some to a very severe extent
I'm not trying to patronize you but I swear I could remember from economics in college that when a item/product has a high depreciation value, its consider a bad investment because you typically, at the end of the products life have poured more money into it to initial buy/repair/maintain it then what the product is actually worth at the time you go to sell it again!
plus with leasing, you never have any costly repair bills, if you buy the car, as soon as factory warranty expires you never know what could happen to your car, a lot of being out of your control, and you could have thousands of dollars in repair bills that would cost more than what a consistent, never changing lease payment would be, I'd rather have a consistent lease payment that I know how much it will be for a couple of years then be side swiped with a few thousand repair bill that I might not be financially prepared for and then have to go into debt for!
just my two cents!
I guess you didn't read my recent post in which I was very clear where I stand on this: if someone wants to buy a luxury car for whatever benefits they see in doing so, and can afford it of course, they should go for it. So I think we agree 100% on that. I have owned a luxury car and it was very pleasurable to drive. The repair costs were not pleasurable, however, and I decided I'd "invest" my money elsewhere (like education for my kids, and my retirement funds--which truly are investments, unlike a car). Yes, I agree you'll lose a lot more money on a luxury car than a mainstream car, so I have all mainstream cars in my family fleet now. And I haven't bought a new car for six years--instead I have bought used cars, which I think works out well for TCO. I purchased the one car new in 2004 because I knew I'd be keeping it in the family for 10+ years, it had a 10-year warranty, and it only cost $13k fully loaded--so the TCO is at least as good as on a used car, probably better since repair costs have been very low.
If I were to buy a Genesis, when I'm in the market for a car for the wife and me in a few years, it would probably be a gently used one. Not that I don't think it's a great car for $33k+, but I can do without the new-car smell if it means saving thousands of dollars. And I expect the Genesis, like most luxury cars, to hold up pretty well. So I could be driving in a powerful, comfortable luxury car that looks like new for the same price as a new Elantra.
I'm NOT one of these car fanatics that thinks, oh luxury cars are the only real nice kind of car and if you can afford it you SHOULD get one! I don't feel that way at all!
I am with you that while luxury cars are very nice and have their purpose and place I would have no problem buying mainstream vehicles, even though I could afford luxury prices! Last year, when before I got my Maxima, I drove a G37, TL, ES350, Altima, Camry, Fusion, and TSX! As you can see some where luxury cars, others were not! When I drove the G37, TL, and ES350, they were really nice cars but I already had two luxury vehicles and didn't really want a third; I really enjoyed the ride and features in the Maxima, Altima, and Fusion! When it came down to it, despite the Altima having more room and myself having major back problems, I went with the Maxima because I needed a passenger front power seat, something the Altima still lacks and wanted something with a little bit more muscular/aggressive body style which the Maxima provided me over the Altima and Fusion!
When I am in the market for a car again in about 2 years from now, I will give Nissan, Toyota, and Hyundai, another look because I believe they all make nice cars and would not have any hesitation buying any of their products!
I kinda understand what Snake is trying to get at. From a practical point of view, I live in Southern California and I would not be able to do the things that I do without a car.
Perhaps, in urban NY you would be better off without a car because the transport system is so established. But in SoCal, it's near impossible to get around without spending your whole day switching from bus to bus, walking miles to get to another subway system that leads to another region in SoCal and walking to another bus. Taxi cabs are rather expensive and not as readily available as it is in NY. Therefore, it may be a good "investment" to buy a reliable, gas efficient, low maintenance car to get you to where you're going.
However, car itself is not the investment. But the use of the car is the investment on many other aspects of your life. I think snake is right and smarty is definitely correct as well. Different way of looking at the investment I think. Can't we awl jest get allawng?
Lets see if I can enlighten you. If I do not have a car the most I could make in a reasonable commute is 10-12/hour. Now if I invest in a car I could get jobs that pay twice that much seeing that I could travel to them. If I wanted to have that job and not invest in a car I would have to spend four times the amount of time to commute using public transportation or spend more on taxis than I would ever pay for a car.
I really don't care but I do believe you'll be hard pressed to find anyone else here who thinks a car is a good investment!
Maybe not here but you would with financial people and economists.
Again if you are thinking getting more than you paid for it you are right, but not all investments are like that.
just because I disagree with you doesn't mean you have to go all crazy and talk going off on well lets see how you do without a car and that! I never said that you shouldn't have a car;
But thats my point, people get cars for a reason. That reason is because it enables them to do more with less. In that respect it is an investment.
you have your point I have mine, I have proof that I have spent less money on cars leasing then when I was buying every single one!
Very well but I can guarantee you that I have spent less in car payments and repairs than you have over the last ten years. FWIW the last six years I have paid a grand total of about $7,400 in car payments and non-routine car maintence. How much have you paid in lease payments in the last six years?
Yes your monthly lease payments are less but if you keep a car for over 5 years you run out of monthly payments. But if you lease you will always have monthly payments.
I'm not trying to patronize you but I swear I could remember from economics in college....
If that was the rationalization of what a good investment is then we would all be living in caves as nobody would have invested in equipment (which depreciates) to build anything. You have to get rid of the mindset that only investments you sell for more than you paid for are good investments.
Let me give you this example. I am currently working in a tax office. In this office the owner invested in 4 computers costing several thousands of dollars to create an office network between all the computers. Right now (several years later) those computers and all the routers and such making up the network are just about worthless. Was it a good investment? According to what you are saying it wasn't seeing that the owner could never sell the computers for anything near what she put into them. But those computers allowed us to process tax returns much faster with less errors and transmit the tax return electronically to the IRS and various states. That allowed us to keep customers and build a customer base. In that sense it was a good investment since the owner made far more money because of the computers.
plus with leasing, you never have any costly repair bills, if you buy the car, as soon as factory warranty expires you never know what could happen to your car, a lot of being out of your control,
My last car I took to well over 175K miles with not out of pocket repair bills, I am currently driving a 12 year old car closing in on 150K miles that has given me no trouble. Cars today can go quite a distance before anything big happens a properly cared for car should give you at least 150K miles issue free if not much more. FWIW IIRC the total of non routine maintence that I have paid for on the last four cars I have driven well past 100K miles is about $2,500.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well, I think you got two out of three right (although the first choice can also cost you if the tax laws don't fall your way). The house you live in is a home for most of us, not an investment anyway (unless you like losing sleep in housing markets like this one).
But we're getting pretty far off-track here. If you can afford a luxury car, you should be able to afford to eat the depreciation and operating expenses. And since most anyone with a job could lease just about anything in recent years, what defines a "luxury" car lost a lot from over exposure.
Which is why I don't understand the argument that the Genesis is not a luxury car because it doesn't cost enough money. Leasing, and the pre-owned market, bring luxury vehicles to the "unwashed masses".
That is not always a guarantee, even if you are a person who keeps a car for 12-15years, the vast majority at some point will have had some kind of repair cost in order to keep the car going and even if you didn't most people don't get rid of their old cars until something major goes where the repair costs are too high to justify them because the car is not valued as much as the repair; in the latter scenario, which is usually the case with most people, you don't get it fixed and thus take a even bigger hit in value when you go to sell it or trade it in
If that was the rationalization of what a good investment is then we would all be living in caves as nobody would have invested in equipment (which depreciates) to build anything. You have to get rid of the mindset that only investments you sell for more than you paid for are good investments
lets not get melodramatic about this, there is a big difference between equipment and tools and the second biggest purchase of your life! the last time I checked, tools and most products don't cost 20-40k dollars like automobiles do; there is nothing wrong with that mindset, good investments that sell for more than what you paid for are good FINANCIAL investments
I think we are just mincing words! I'll agree that a car is a good life investment, in that it does allow you, especially where I live where it is a necessity, to go out and get a good job, do fun activities, go to school, have a family and have a nice comfortable life! plus, cars allow us to keep in touch with the world!
BUT, and this is a big but, I have seen plenty of professionals on CNBC, etc all say that a car is not a good FINANCIAL investment; no product depreciates more, well maybe a boat, as soon as you buy it and take it away from the dealer/business then a car does and for it to do that when they are so expensive means only one thing, they financially are draining and can't hold their value
Is a car a good "life" investment, yes, it is a good financial investment, no! but unfortunately, your society has been built around the automobile and most cannot survive without one and thus we have to live with the finanical burdens cars have:shades:
Peace Out!
typically, when getting married, owning a home, and going to school become bad investments is usually indicated of stupid people who make stupid decisions in either of these three big events!
for instance, the current housing market has led a good majority of people with homes that are actually bad investments because they were stupid enough, along with the banks, to get into homes they knew they could not afford because they didn't have the finances to do it - for God sakes, some people who didn't even have jobs were getting high priced mortgages on more expensive homes, thus you have people who bought a 300k home which is now worth 200k! :P
some of these things have to do with the specific state you live in and the economic climate but the majority of it is stupid people making stupid decisions!
anyway, your right we have gone off on a tangent, back to Hyundai! :shades:
No its not a guarantee, but this day and age thats where the smart money is at.
the vast majority at some point will have had some kind of repair cost in order to keep the car going
Todays cars should go at least 150K or more with proper care and maintence. More than enough for most drivers to get several years of payment free driving.
But then again you may still be in the 70's when cars were pretty much shot at 100K, but I am not.
lets not get melodramatic about this, there is a big difference between equipment and tools and the second biggest purchase of your life! the last time I checked, tools and most products don't cost 20-40k dollars like automobiles do;
I don't know, last time I was in on a purchase of a "tool" for a company I worked for we spent $325K. But lets not get into nit-picking, a purchase of a car and the purchase of tools is not that much different. Both are done to enable the buyer to do something. Basically a car is a tool, a transportation tool, but a tool none the less. Its function is to get you from point 'A' to point 'B'. Now our desires and needs in that tool and what it can and cannot do vary so we have a vast selection of that tool, but it doesn't change the fact that if we didn't need to travel distances that are further than walking distance no one would have a car.
BUT, and this is a big but, I have seen plenty of professionals on CNBC, etc all say that a car is not a good FINANCIAL investment
Who are these "Professionals" and what are their creditials? and what are they defining as an investment? I have an accounting degree and an economics degree I think I know what I am talking about. And to add to that I can point you to some of my college professors that will back me up on this.
Again if you don't think its a good financial investment then get rid of your car then report back her on how much time, effort and money you spend in transportation.
You have to get away from this mindset that a good investment is something you sell for more than you bought it for. There is so much that can happen in between those two events that can define if an investment is good.
it is a good financial investment, no!
Then as I have said try living without one.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It is a good investment from snake's angle but from smarty's angle it never will be a good investment.
From smarty's point of view, I can understand why lessening the loss is a smarter move... but he's not getting a luxury car for the purpose of investing or for status.
If that's the case, I don't know why one would be against trying out a Genesis. The Gen has legitimate luxury features without the nameplate. Therefore, what would stop people like you from calling it a luxury vehicle? That's the part that baffles me...
If someone took a Mercedes vehicle and replaced all the badges with Yugo emblems, would it be any less comfortable or well engineered? Would the car stop functioning as it is supposed to all of a sudden? If you're not in it for status, then it shouldn't matter what the badge says.. period!
again your talking about your company, consumers themselves don't buy $325k tolls; the principal of buying a car and a piece of equipment or product is the same but their costs are not
Who are these "Professionals" and what are their creditials? and what are they defining as an investment? I have an accounting degree and an economics degree I think I know what I am talking about. And to add to that I can point you to some of my college professors that will back me up on this.
I don't have to explain myself, if its a business station who do you think they are going to have on, English teachers? they were economists, accountants, financial consultants, bankers, etc - why do you think everyone and even professional economists wanted to stop giving GM and Chrysler bailout after bailout - its because they knew there was no guarantee they could pay the money back because their primary products are vehicles that do not hold their value and depreciate severely - most did not feel it would be a great financial investment - GM and Chrysler each owe almost $80 billion
You have to get away from this mindset that the second biggest purchase in your life that typically costs on avg between 20-40k dollars just to buy is money you will not ever see again or recoupe- when something costs that much, a good financial investment should be something that sells more than what you bought it for and cars I'm sorry to say do not! not you, not me can change that fact
I wish it was different but that is the way the car industry has always been!
But then again you may still be in the 70's when cars were pretty much shot at 100K, but I am not.
I'm not living in the 70s, I had GM vehicles all the way up to 2005 that needed major repair work before 80k miles so just consider yourself lucky you had vehicles that lasted as long as they did! not everyone is as lucky as you!
Again if you don't think its a good financial investment then get rid of your car then report back her on how much time, effort and money you spend in transportation.
you keep implying I said we don't need cars and I never did; as I have mentioned, I live in a rural area and need my car! I don't need to get rid of it; as I have said, cars are financial burdens we all have to endure!
If you think cars are such good financial investments try going to school for a college degree, spending all that money for tuition, etc and once you graduate take a job that requires only a HS diploma and see if college was a good financial investment for you or not! of course, this is rhetorical, of course it wouldn't be financially a good investment!
I feel strongly about each side of the argument !
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Your not always going to agree with everyone
Maybe its just me being tainted by 25 years of GM products that I poured thousands upon thousands of dollars into all before 80k miles so I could keep them going! Just glad switched to Japanese vehicles when I did because I'm not pouring through money on them like I was with GM!
Leasing a car only pays for the depreciation of the car, with certain fees and interest tacked on, so that is not an investment, you are basically renting the car for a fixed amount of time, much like leasing an apartment, You don't own it. Buying a car and getting a low rate 2 or 3 year payoff, good investment as the value of the car will exceed the loan amount in a short amount of time. Buying a car and having a 72 month payment at a steeper interest rate, you will always be upside down on it, bad investment.
The only cars that can be considered an investment would be a classic car, like a 50something Cadillac Convertible, or a GTO, and parking it in a garage with a cover over it and keeping it in top shape, or maybe buying a limited edition Mustang that only 50 or so will ever be made and putting it in storage for a few years.
Definition of Investment.
# investing: the act of investing; laying out money or capital in an enterprise with the expectation of profit
# money that is invested with an expectation of profit
I agree. Although I may need a car to get to work - as do most Americans - that doesn't make a car an investment. Otherwise, my clothes would just as readily qualify for investment status. After all, I can't go to work naked.
Wikipedia's definition of "investment" is as good as anything that I've seen: "...the commitment of money or capital to purchase financial instruments or other assets in order to gain profitable returns in form of interest, income, or appreciation of the value of the instrument."
In other words, when I invest in something, I'm looking for either an income stream - rental income or dividends, for example - from that something, or a shot at selling that something for more than I paid for it. I think that's pretty clear. I also think that this definition makes it clear that money spent on cars is not money invested - apart from buying a classic or antique car in the hope that it can some day be sold for more than its purchase price.
It may annoy people to hear this, but I classify cars as appliances. I need a car for transportation just as I need a washing machine for clean clothes or a stove for hot food. I find cars vastly more interesting than, say, microwave ovens, & I have a more personal relationship with my car than I do with my microwave, but at the end of the day, my car is a tool with a purpose, just as my microwave is a tool with a purchase.
A car is not a pet. It's not an article of clothing. It's certainly not an investment. It's an appliance.
Or is this something that girls do most of the time, usually to older cars they buy? Not as investments, necessarily, of course, either.
Oh...this thing is quickly spinning away from us.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think snake is confusing investment with ASSET. Just because something can have value and be an important asset, doesn't necessarily make it an investment. Some assets are investments and some aren't.
So it would follow, imo, that a regular car is an asset, but not an investment.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460