Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

j2j

So do a lot of other models: the G35/37 sedan, the G8, the Passat, the Legacy, the Accord, the Mitsu Diamante, etc.

j2j

Not everybody shops purely based on price - many shop based on features - RWD, V8, handling, etc. w/ price being a factor after taking the other stuff into consideration (people who like the soft, floaty ride of the ES likely wouldn't be interested in the firm, almost harsh ride of the much sportier G37 and vice versa).

Based on a survey on a Genesis owners site, most people (coming from a luxury brand) who ended up buying the Genesis came from sportier models (3 and 5 Series, Infiniti or the GS w/ none coming from the soft-riding, poor handling ES).

Hyundai is developing an entry-level RWD luxury sedan to battle the likes of the 3 Series, G37, IS, E Class, etc. that will be priced more in line w/ the large FWD upscale sedans (Avalon, Maxima, Taurus, etc.) - but people aren't going to cross-shop them simpky b/c they are in a similar price range.

The Genesis sedan in 2009 outsold the Lexus GS and Infiniti M by a 2:1 margin and the A6, S60, etc. by even greater margins.

As for the $1000 rebate, most other luxury brands were throwing serious $$ onto the hood in order move units (Infiniti in particular).

captain2

Audi, BMW, and MB for example, which offer entry-level vehicles starting in the mid-$20s
in 1970 maybe- I think you need to do a bit more research (or I need to go shopping with you even BMW 1s will top $30 and MB base model C's will top $35k - but in any case that's a real far piece . from advertising Hyundai branded products for $9990.00 - and more importantly, advertising to a completely different buying demographic.

fintail

What percentage of Genesis sales are actually V8? I have to believe it is a small minority.

3er, G, IS, and C (I assumed you mean that and not E) can already be had for Avalon/Maxima/Taurus money, depending on equipment.

The current style GS has never been a big hit - bland and expensive, and the S60, M, and A6 are outgoing designs where sales are expected to lag. Direct comparisons are tough in this market. I do believe the Genesis has battled the M and GS especially, the others maybe less.

Regarding the design feature of the previous post, I can't find any car that both matches the German C-pillar kink and matches the overall proportions like the Genesis matches the BMW E60. But I am sure it is just a coincidence

captain2

Hyundai is developing an entry-level RWD luxury sedan
they already have an entry level RWD sedan just that it can't be 'luxury' - not with that badge...
there is, of course, the Coupe - an Acura like effort at the definitive rice rocket or a pony car competitor depending on your perspective. But then again not even Hyundai is pretending that is a luxury anything.

tjc78

The Genesis sedan in 2009 outsold the Lexus GS and Infiniti M by a 2:1 margin and the A6, S60, etc. by even greater margins.

Answer me this: If the Genesis was the same price (whether MSRP or actual OTD price) do you really think it would still outsell the GS and M?

Question 2: If the Genesis is a "luxury" car and all that goes with it why does the TL, ES350 and G outsell it? In reality the Genesis is at least equal in quality and a much better value.

The Genesis is a great offering by an up and coming company. It is not "luxury" in the same way the Toyota Avalon, Maxima, Taurus are not. FWIW in some ways the Avalon is a better car than the Genesis. I have owned both and can tell you they each have their strengths.

As for the $1000 rebate, most other luxury brands were throwing serious $$ onto the hood in order move units (Infiniti in particular).

Percentage of MSRP was there really that much difference? Remember the rebate was already on top of an aggressive leasing money factor that equalled 1.44%.

backy

And you probably noticed also there are no rebates on the Genesis right now, either.

tjc78

I didn't check March yet but there was in February according to Edmund's own Car_Man who is dead on the mark with the various leasing MFs, residuals etc.

Read the last paragraph of MSG 277

backy

Hyundai continues to fight the problem that buyers EXPECT big discounts if they buy Korean cars (much in the same way they now expect it with D3s).

They will be disappointed, then, with the Genesis--no rebates to be had. But they could zip over to their Lexus dealer to check out the special prices and lease deals good through March 31 in the "Spring for a Lexus" program. One of those "gimmicks" Tokyo has come up with I guess.

One thing a Hyundai buyer can EXPECT, compared to a Lexus, is that the Hyundai will accelerate only when they want it to. :shades:

backy

Let me help you: http://www.hyundaiusa.com/financial-tools/special-offers.aspx

backy

My personal opinion on why the Millenia failed is that it was too close in design and size to the Mazda 626. Heck, it even LOOKED a lot like the 626 of that era. I think the Millenia actually offered the same V6 as in the 626, although the Millenia also had the optional Miller cycle engine. Yes, the Millenia had a nice interior, but the 626 was quite nice also, probably higher quality than any future 626/6 until the current generation. So why would someone pay $10k+ more for a car of similar size, similar powetrain, similar looks, and maybe a nicer interior?

OTOH, there is no other sedan in Hyundai's lineup that is the size of the Genesis, looks like the Genesis, has the luxury of the Genesis, is RWD, and offers a V8 engine. That is one huge difference between how Hyundai went to market with the Genesis vs. how Mazda tried to do it.

I agree that the Genesis is bought by people who are buying a car, vs. a brand. I've been saying that for a long time. They bought a luxury car from a non-luxury brand. A TL buyer bought a luxury car from what is a borderline luxury brand at best--borderline because it offers low-end TSXes as well as higher-end cars that can be considered luxury cars.

tjc78

Well with my zip code (08078) there is a $1500 Valued Owner and $1500 Competitive Owner coupon. That is pretty much like a rebate...

Also, when I leased my Genesis last May there was no published rebate on Hyundai's website. I checked on the leasing forum here at Edmunds and sure enough Car_man was reporting it as well as the MF. His #s were dead on at the dealer. I also checked out the ES350 MFs and residuals here at Edmunds and they were also spot on at the time. In other words I trust that info.

backy

I think YOU need to go shopping--and price out an A3. Tell us what you find out about its starting MSRP, i.e. is it in the mid-$20s, as I said it was?

What is the difference of Hyundai selling a new car for $10k at the same dealership as a $40k Genesis, or a BMW dealership selling a used car for $10k at the same dealership as their new luxury models? There's no firewalls at my local BMW dealership to keep the "riff-raff" looking for those $10k cars away from the higher-class buyers looking for the new luxury cars. Yet they seem to get along just fine.

backy

You are lucky. No rebates at all in MN on the Genesis.

smarty666

A TL buyer bought a luxury car from what is a borderline luxury brand at best--borderline because it offers low-end TSXes as well as higher-end cars that can be considered luxury cars

why don't you own a couple of Acura's and take in the superior dealership experience before you make a statement like that!; it couldn't be further from the truth! having several Acura's myself over the years I can tell you that Acura is a full fledged luxury division! the TSX is now similarly equipped and priced to an entry-level luxury car that is put out by all the other companies, IS250, base G37, 3 series, C300, and A4! I can also tell you that Acura has a great service and dealership experience that I have never encountered at any Hyundai dealer I have ever been too! plus, I've never been treated with such rudeness and disrespect from Acura salesman like I have by my two local Hyundai salesman

Plus Hyundai, Lexus, GM, Toyota, Infiniti, etc can never make the buying process any easier with their cars because Acura's come fully loaded; all you have to decide when getting a Acura is what color combo you want and whether you want nav or not! that is all the decisions you need to make,no complicated option packages, etc!

I guess ragging on real luxury companies like Acura, Lexus, and Mercedes makes you feel better to try and make up for Hyundai not being a luxury company? Not sure what is to gain by putting down the competition! Acura will be finally producing their first main production V8 that will be introduced into a redesigned RL I think next year or the year after! That will be able to give Acura more respect in that luxury segment for competing against the M, GS, E-Class, 5-series, and A6, then it is right now!

backy

Don't complain to me! I wasn't one of the people here who claim that a car has to be a certain price to be considered a luxury car. Going by that, the TSX doesn't make the grade. It starts under $30k--even cheaper than the Genesis! The TL is boderline, as it starts in the mid-$30s--about where the Genesis starts, and we have been told many times here that it doesn't cost enough to be considered a "luxury car".

So if you want to get all huffy at someone, do it to those who say a $30-40k+ car can't be a luxury car because it's too cheap. They are dissing your precious Acuras, too, sir.

smarty666

well I didn't realize it was someone else but it sure sounded like you were the one saying it but if not thats my bad, but regardless I guess they are just jealous Acura won the ALS resale value award for a second year in a row against all the other luxury companies :P

just FYI for not just you but everyone, I personally don't feel that way, while I didn't like the way the Genesis drove and rode when I test drove it, it most certainly felt and looked like a luxury car and I can not believe someone would say that a 44k dollar loaded V8 RWD Genesis would not be a luxury car :confuse: how much do you people want the Genesis to be in order to be a luxury car, 50k, 55k?? huh?

no wonder why backy has to defend the Genesis on here so much :P $30-40k dollars is not enough to be considered a luxury vehicle? come on, don't be so ridiculous!!

nomorevan

The question should be "would I buy this Hyundai for $35,000" and not would I buy a "luxury" Hyundai. I have been car shopping for weeks and keep coming back to the Genesis. I've test driven them all. I'd like to spend around $35,000. I really went in to this with an open mind. I have been driving minivans for 14 years and have been looking forward to my first "not a mom" nice car for a long time.

The Lexus ES is just boring inside and out and kind of cheap looking on the inside, the Infiniti G37's backseat is too small [I have to drive 3 kids around], the Buick Lacrosse had a gorgeous interior but the windows are just too small, not going to drive a Ford [sorry I'm sure Taurus is a great car but I've had minivans for 14 years and want something a little sexy], and I'm not going to drive a BMW 3 series b/c I've heard repairs are expensive and read lots of complaints on these boards and it has a small backseat as well. Volvos look boring and the Audi in my price range is too small in the backseat as well.

That leaves the Genesis and the Acura TL. I wanted to like the Lexus as that is the "prestige" brand around here, but was completely underwhelmed by the interior today. It just doesn't look as classy on the outside as the Genesis does. My husband likes the TL, and it really is a BLAST to drive, but it is a little too masculine for me not to mention the highly criticized front grille. It also needs premium gas. I also think the G37 exterior is just dated and doesn't look unique any more. [now if I could get the G37 convertible I'd be in heaven but kids and booksacks don't fit in that car!]

To sum up, I can afford all of the above cars and have driven almost all of them, but I just prefer the Genesis. At this point, with the discounts on the TL and Infiniti right now, the prices are really the same and the Genesis isn't even cheaper but I still like it better. It looks classy on the outside, and the brownish leather dash is gorgeous. As far as quality and reliability, the Genesis is at the top or near the top of every list of 'upscale large sedan/entry level luxury car" I've come across. Hyundai keeps moving quickly up various lists for quality. I have researched this a lot and read pretty much every review of each one of these cars I could find on the various automotive websites and everyone seems to rave about the car. [yes, I'm going to get a 2010 to avoid the dreaded "suspension" issue from 2009 and yes I drove the 2010 and LOVED the way it drove]

I don't understand this need people have to force others to admit it is or isn't a luxury car. All I know is that to me, it is the most luxurious car I can buy for x amount of dollars that fits my family. [even if I could fit my family in the G37, I still think the interior of the Genesis is way nicer] AND I would certainly not buy a less attractive car or a car with fewer features for the same amount of money just because it has a name that impresses other people. In my opinion, this is simply the nicest car for this amount of money.

If you haven't driven one and just hate Hyundai b/c it is Hyundai, you really owe it to yourself to go and look at this car. I was very surprised by what I found and fully went into this car search expecting to end up with a Lexus.

bobad

nomorevan,

Refreshing perspective. You have done your homework, and clearly have your priorities in order.

Genesis and other Hyundai models have moved beyond being great values. The latest offerings meet or beat their competition straight up.

toye

Thank you for your well thought out approach on why you may pick the Genesis as your next family automobile.

Three days ago a brand new Genesis was bought by a person who lives in the building next to mine. They have always before had a late model MB parked in their spot. When I get a chance I will ask them why they switched from MB to the Genesis.

backy

Great example of how there is room for Hyundai in this market, for people focused on buying the best car for their needs vs. buying a particular badge or image. I love your logical approach to car buying, looking at practical things such as rear seat room, reliability, and fuel cost, and even whether you can bear to look at the car every day. Others following the same approach might make a totally different decision, e.g. they want AWD for bad weather or want a smoother Lexus-like ride. But at least they will wind up with the best car for their needs, vs. something to impress the buds at the country club.

bobad

When I get a chance I will ask them why they switched from MB to the Genesis.

2-1 odds it's because he has been following this thread. :P

toye

Yeah I bet it will be for many of the same reasons that has been mention on this thread!

fintail

Gee, what a coincidence :P

C-class lease was probably up and they wanted to try something new. Brand loyalty is a thing of the past for anything but real fanboys anymore. Maybe they wanted 5 series looks without the price... :shades:

What will be more telling is what Genesis owners do when their terms are up.

captain2

Don't complain to me! I wasn't one of the people here who claim that a car has to be a certain price to be considered a luxury car. Going by that, the TSX doesn't make the grade
Then exactly who are these mysterious people of yours??? Not even I have said anything about a particular price being some sort of 'luxury cutoff'. If Hyundai didn't have the reputation and dealership network that it does and didn't further sell bottom of the barrel mass market econoboxes then yes the $35k Genesis could be a luxury car - Hyundai did get a good part of the car itself right - they only fail in the rest of the equation.
The poster is, however, quite correct - the Acura buying experience and the qualities of the usual Acura dealer are right up there in terms of 'luxury'. They make the 'average' Hyundai dealer look like crap. Remember that it was Honda (not Toyota/Nissan) that was the first to understand the brand conscious American consumer. T^hose first Legends were remarkable cars and every bit 'luxury' at the time.
All that said (and I have said this) Acura's 'problem ' is more product related (Hyundai's problems are rewputation and perception related) - dabbling for years in the 'rice rockets' and small sedans , the fact that they have ignored the V8 (and RWD) which has admittedly almost become a requisite. The RL is a wonderful car not without its innovations, but I doubt that many would put it on the same level as its similar German/Japanese competitors.
Put an Acura label on a Gen Sedan and you would immediately have a luxury car, because that's how well the Acura name is perceived pretty much regardless of what they charged for it - something IMO they should have done years ago.

captain2

They bought a luxury car from a non-luxury brand
that, my friend, can't be done. As I think tjc put it - luxury is more than just beads, baubles, and bling.

smarty666

plus, I think Honda was the first Japanese automaker to introduce a luxury division, ACURA, in the United States before Lexus and Infiniti!

and your right, the Acura buying experience is definitely the easiest in the business, all you need to know if color combo and nav or no nav and thats it!! can't get any easier than that!

wish all the manufacturer's were that easy! I also have a Nissan and while I love my Maxima, Nissan is the complete opposite, they have the most complicated packages possible and make it so ridiculous if you want one or two things!! Lexus is another offended of this like Nissan; I wanted heated seats and HID Headlights, but in the RX350, if you want those two options you need to get $3700 worth of a Nav package and special nav audio package to get them :confuse:

I will eventually report them to Hyundai HQs but the real shame here in central NJ, is that my local Hyundai dealer 5 minutes down the road from me and other one 30 minutes from me are both absolutely atrocious with rude, unclassy, pushy, and high pressure salesman that I would never want to buy or lease from!! Both dealerships really don't portray or represent Hyundai professionally at all! and yes I know, I don't hold this against Hyundai specifically!

captain2

Nissan is the complete opposite,
as are most 'mass market' brands because they also need to appeal to those that look at price as a primary consideration. The Acura buyer , as most 'luxury' buyers I submit will be, is likely less concerned with price and morew concerned with content.
BUT, if you really really want to get frustrated by watching prices going up exponentially with options packages - go shop BMW. :surprise:

backy

Can't be done? Doing a little back-tracking, are we? Didn't you admit that the Genesis has the qualities of a luxury car, i.e. all that needs to be done is slap a different badge on it, whether it be "Genesis" or "Acura", and presto change-o, we have a luxury car? That makes the Genesis a luxury CAR from a non-luxury BRAND. Those buyers who are looking at the right CAR for their needs (see story above) can see the Genesis for what it is: a luxury car. Those looking at brand names might not see the Genesis as a luxury car because it doesn't have the right badge on it. Maybe they can buy one of those aftermarket Genesis badges for ten bucks, and drive happy.

houdini1

Very nice to get a perspective from a lady. When I ran across your post, I too, was just thinking, why is it so important to "pigeon hole" the Genesis?

This thread ought to tell us that the Genesis really doesn't fit any of the normal pigeon holes at all. It is unique, and somewhat of a game changer. I think it appeals to those who don't really care what others think of the car.

I drive a Lexus LS but I certainly admire the Genesis. I also agree that the ES is boring, has a cheap, very ugly interior and certainly not even in the same class as the Genesis. You sound like a smart cookie and someone who thinks for herself, so get the Genesis and enjoy.

captain2

Doing a little back-tracking, are we? Didn't you admit that the Genesis has the qualities of a luxury car, i.e. all that needs to be done is slap a different badge on it
you seem to have this propensity to read only what you want to read.
No, not back tracking at all - what I have said more times than I can count is that there is a number of things that keeps the Gen from being a luxury car IMO and the car itself is last one of those. Yes, the mass market label is a problem- , yes, the dealerships are a problem and yes, what it is sold with is a problem.
Acura, you see,has none of those particular problems - it has a reasonable 'luxury' perception, a fine quality perception, and certainly more than adequate dealer facilities. The fact that I would suggest that a Gen sedan with an Acura badge on it would be perfectly good luxury car is a testament to both the perceptions of the Acura name as well as a testament to the good job that Hyundai has done on the car itself.
You ought to be happy with the comment

backy

I read only what I want to read? Here is what I read, which you said a few posts ago:

Put an Acura label on a Gen Sedan and you would immediately have a luxury car, because that's how well the Acura name is perceived pretty much regardless of what they charged for it - something IMO they should have done years ago.

I don't know how else to interpret "Put an Acura label on a Gen Sedan and you would immediately have a luxury car," other than what I said: you are admitting that the Genesis sedan is in fact a luxury CAR, but does not have a luxury BADGE. If you want to spin it some other way now, go ahead, but what you have written, you have written, Ceasar.

iluvmysephia1

Hyundai i-flow...concept

Gulp! This thing is doin' what my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS did ta me when I first saw're it revealed in all its glory. And then I bought one.

I want one of these now. I thought maybe I wanted a 2010 Suzuki Kizashi but now I want one of these. 1.7L gas-diesel hybrid. If diesel is so evil in the U.S. the i-flow won't be allowed here. What then? What's the car we'll get that's related to the i-flow, Hyundai nuts and insiders. I must know. I'll give you 25 seconds to answer. :shades:

I want one of these!

BTW-what are those gullwings in front?

fintail

Are there any actual photos of this concept, or just weird CGIs? It's supposed to be unveiled at Geneva, which is now. I haven't seen any real images yet.

The little wings on the front fenders appear to be mirrors, in the old Japanese style.

It's not attractive to me, it's exaggerated and trying too hard, aggressive in looks yet it won't be in handling. However, we can be sure that if it makes it to the assembly line, it will be toned down.

j2j

Uhh, Infiniti has been selling the M at a much greater discount than the Genesis; the prime reason why the residuals on the M are lower than that for the Genesis.

The same goes for Acura w/ the RL - huge amounts of $$ on the hood.

Even BMW and Mercedes (which have much more prestige than Lexus or Acura) were discounting heavily in 2009 (more so than what Hyundai was doing w/ the Genesis).

j2j

Uhh, Mercedes currently manufactures the ECONOBOX A Class and B Class and sells them in most markets outside of the US.

By your "argument", Mercedes is NOT a luxury brand outside the US.

j2j

Even more borderline considering that the TSX is basically a rebadged JPN/EU Honda Accord; and that the best-selling Acura of the 1980s-1990s was the Integra, also a Honda outside of the US.

Also, many auto enthusiasts consider the Genesis, w/ its RWD and available V-8, to be more of a "luxury" sedan than anything that Acura has to offer.

j2j

No, more like having little sense of design.

j2j

No - an E segment sedan is not entry level.

Hyundai is planning on launching a lux brand in 5-6 yrs to coincide w/ the launch of the 2nd gen Genesis sedan and a smaller RWD sedan, followed by the next-gen Equus and a CUV.

By your "logic", the Genesis would then be a "luxury" sedan, but it would be an E segment and not a D segment (entry-level) sedan.

As for the Genesis coupe, the current is not luxury (neither was the Acura Integra), but the next gen will go upmarket and include a version w/ the Tau V8.

j2j

Answer 1:

Maybe - if Hyundai had launched it under a separate Genesis brand.

The same question can be applied to the LS when it first launched at prices well below the S-Class and 7 Series and at prices more comparable to the E-Class and 5 Series.

Even today, the LS460 undercuts its German competitors by thousands.

Answer 2:

B/c those models are in a separate class; ask me the question when Hyundai has a model in that class.

As for the Avalon, Maxima and Taurus - none of their respective manufacturers would argue that they are luxury sedans, but rather that they are upscale sedans (just as the Azera and the upcoming Cadenza are for Hyundai and Kia, respectively).

Otoh, Toyota would say that the TOYOTA Crown sedan, the TOYOTA Majesta sedan and the TOYOTA Century limo are ALL LUXURY autos - w/ both the Majesta and Century HIGHER on the hierarchy than ANY Lexus, including the LS460.

In addition to that, your "argument" is even more silly considering that until a few years ago, ALL Lexus models were sold as TOYOTAS in Japan (so the same car sold in Japan, the Celsior aka LS, would NOT be "luxury" by virtue of a badge).

Compounding that is the fact that the Acura TSX is a rebadged Honda (Accord), as was top-selling Acura of the 1980s-1990s (Integra).

There was more $$ on the hood for the Infiniti M and the Acura RL, much less BMWs and Mercedes.

And really, to state that the Avalon is better than the Genesis in any way other than providing a soft, floaty ride is laughable.

j2j

Really?

So the Japanese royal family aren't riding in luxury (the Toyota Century limo)?

I guess those $25k diamond necklaces at Costco aren't luxury items either.

j2j

Uhh, you should see what posters on Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and even Infinti boards say about Acura.

The general consensus is that Acura is a 2nd tier luxury brand at best and a near-luxury brand at worst.

Even the people over at the main Acura board are cursing Honda's management for not going thru w/ the plans for V-8 and RWD, much less the current styling.

j2j

So in other words, Acura is a luxury brand (tho many would say near-luxury), but the TSX and the past Integra is/was NOT a luxury auto due to the fact that they are/were also sold as Hondas throughout the rest of the world. lol

Most auto enthusiasts would rather have a real luxury auto than a pretender w/ a fancy badge.

iluvmysephia1

gone astray. It's called flag on your knapsack-

Gordon Downie of The Tragically Hip



Hyundai i-flow concept

Man, this is one beautiful car. Bring it to da States, Hyundai. No need for the diesel part of the hybrid. Make it a straight gasoline/electric motor combo, perhaps. But please use this body. I'll then drive it up to Seattle and show it off to fintail.

And get a Dick's Deluxe, fries and Coke. And maybe even watch a Sonic's game with the new world order Seattle Sonics that move there from the failed New Orleans Hornet franchise.

Them are some of the skinniest mirrors I've ever seen on an automobile, man. Whoo!

backy

Take deep, cleansing breaths! As fintail said, it's unlikely this car will make it into production looking like the rendering. Concept cars don't have to be concerned with issues like, for example, safety (consider what that sharp prow or wing mirrors would do if the car hit a pedestrian). Also I think the little wings over the windows remind me of rain shields that some people tack onto their cars. I can imagine scraping my head on them every time I enter and exit the car--unless they are on the doors, then they're good candidates to be snapped off or hit someone in the head.

I like the side profile though, and I think that element at least has a decent chance of making it into production--it's not that far from what Hyundai did with the 2011 Sonata. And, it certainly doesn't look anything like a 5 Series.

tjc78

And really, to state that the Avalon is better than the Genesis in any way other than providing a soft, floaty ride is laughable.

Well go drive any Toyota with the 2GR V6, then drive a Genesis, Azera or anything with the Hyundai 3.8 and tell me which is the more refined drivetrain.

Yes the ride in the Avalon blows away the Genesis. The Genesis tries too hard to be compromising. They tried to combine stiff BMW ride/handling with a Toyota/Lexus/Buick ride. Yes, it handles pretty well for a large car. However, the ride quickly becomes unsettled and the rear suspension needs work. If they were smart they would have offered a soft riding version, then offered a sport option that would please everyone.

Like I have said before the Genesis is a great car (I did buy one), but there are people that think its the second coming of the first generation LS. Its not. There are improvements to be made.

In addition to that, your "argument" is even more silly considering that until a few years ago, ALL Lexus models were sold as TOYOTAS in Japan (so the same car sold in Japan, the Celsior aka LS, would NOT be "luxury" by virtue of a badge).

That is the point. People are brand conscious in this country. Not everyone, but an overwhelming majority. Take two woman's purses. Same bag, same material, same everything. Price one at $59, then take the same bag put little "Cs" on it and sell it for $359. Happens everyday, and they will buy the $359 bag (or boyfriends and husband get suckered into buying them ) Until Hyundai is respected enough in the industry and sets up a Luxury brand, the Genesis will not be a luxury car.

backy

People are brand conscious in this country.

Well, it's clear you aren't--you bought a lowly Hyundai. The other tens of thousands of people who have bought a Genesis aren't. The millions of people who have bought Hyundais (and Kias for that matter) vs. cars from more "respected" brands aren't.

How many people does it take to create some "room" in the luxury market for Hyundai?

tjc78

Well, it's clear you aren't--you bought a lowly Hyundai.

Not with cars, anyway. I will confess to be being brand concious on some things, mostly electronics my other passion besides cars. I bought my Genesis because it was the right car for me. I am very comfortable in it (probably my #1 thing), it fit my budget, its RWD, and (to me anyway) is a beautiful automobile. Yes, I did struggle with the fact its a Hyundai. However, after driving my GFs Elantra I decided to give it a look and the rest is history. I do point out the Genesis's faults (ride, and engine refinement) to all that ask but always mention the great interior and features.

The millions of people who have bought Hyundais (and Kias for that matter) vs. cars from more "respected" brands aren't

Well, maybe.... I think alot of Hyundai/Kia buyers bought those cars because they offered a great warranty, were getting more and more reliable and were cheaper than the J3.


How many people does it take to create some "room" in the luxury market for Hyundai?

Great question, who knows? The auto industry is ever changing. I do think that if the economy gets better it may be the time to jump into the ring with a luxury brand. With Toyota's recent struggles there may be some Lexus owners looking for an alternative.

colloquor

I agree with Backy completely...

Let's look at this from a different marketing perspective. Mercedes-Benz, which in Europe is not always viewed as a luxury brand, as many of the taxis are Mercedes, and BMW didn't launch a new brand to sell their high-end cars in the USA. I remember when you could buy a BMW 1600 or 2002 here for $2,800 to $3,500, until BMW and others like SAAB and Volvo decided to go up-market. None of the aforementioned companies changed their brands when they launched vehicles with prices in the luxo bracket. However, Honda, Nissan, and Toyota did.

Perhaps Hyundai feels so confident in the quality of their vehicles from top to bottom that they feel that they don't have to create another brand or marque. If so, it certainly says a lot about their confidence in their total product line quality, and is not necessarily a stupid marketing decision as many on this forum suggest.

Somewhat off topic, but relevant: A friend of mine - a lady in her early 70s, who drove either a Cadillac or a Mercedes most of her life recently down-sized - to a Kia Optima no less. And, she's very happy with the vehicle.

smarty666

Mercedes, Audi, BMW, Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus are the main luxury brands; this 1st tier and 2nd tier stuff is nothing but a bunch of BS; before you and others make the ridiculous statements about Acura that you have, why don't you all go and get one, go through the ridiculously easy buying process and go through the upscale and really nice dealership experience and the problem free reliability their products offer! Acura is nice in the fact they settle right in nicely between Lexus and Infiniti, having a more refinement/luxurious/technology focus on their products making them as nice as possible for their customers, unlike Lexus who is too focus on giving you a couch like ride that cuddles you and Infiniti who is ultra focused on competing with BMW to produce the best race cars possible!

you show me the link to where people who own Acura's are saying that Acura isn't aluxury brand or pretends to be one; I'd love to see that!

I'm quite qualified to talk about this because over the years, besides from being with Acura, I've had a Mercedes, a Infiniti and various models from the mainstream brands and I can tell you that Acura is just as luxurious and on the same level if not better than their competition; I've had less problems and a much better dealership and customer service experience with Acura then I ever did with Infiniti and especially Mercedes!

I'm really sick of tired of people making these ridiculous claims that the Acura TSX and TL are rebadaged Accords and vice versa; I don't care what models they are outside this country, I only care about whats offered here! I found that people, like yourself, who make these ridiculous rebadage claims have either:

A) can't afford the luxury cars themselves so decide to put them down as rebadaged version to make themselves feel better that they only can afford the mainstreams

[or]

have never even test drove these models back to back in order to see the various differences between them that makes them separate entities

I've test driven the TSX and TL back to back against a Civic and Accord and these vehicles were all different; the refinement, material quality, handling, ride, comfort, noise level, etc were all superior in the Acura's over the Honda's! I've also driven a Camry back to back against a ES350 and that is another great example of two cars people say are rebadaged but couldn't be further from the truth, when you actually test drive them back to back!

guess you and everyone else putting Acura down and saying their 2nd tier are still just upset and jealous with the fact that Acura kicked the butt of all the other LUXURY automakers for a second year in a row for highest residual value and best reliability!!

You and everyone else who thinks Acura is not on the level of the other luxury automakers is living in a la la land and you can all keep wishing that, but it will never be so!