Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

backy

You could say the same thing about cars like the M35. Don't forget though that the Genesis does have at least two things that everyone else's car doesn't have--that high-zoot sound system, and a much lower price. People who buy this class of car don't go for out-there styling, so I wouldn't expect the Genesis to look markedly different from competitors.

lemko

I'm quite happy with the DTS. At least it doesn't look like everybody else's car. I could barely distinguish the Genesis from the Azera. I was expecting something a little more substantial than a gussied-up Azera which in turn looks like a Toyota Camry. Maybe if Hyundai did something distinctive with the styling like its sister make Kia does from time to time? Hey, the Amanti may look weird, but it's at least interesting. Hyundai's just copying Toyota and Honda. Don't tell me the Sonata doesn't look just like the last-generation Honda Accord.

lemko

Maybe it's because I was expecting a Lexus LS460 at Toyota Camry XLE prices. Hyundai, posters on Edmunds, and the motoring press seem to have been playing up this car so much I was let down when I actually saw one.

backy

You can't be serious that you think the Azera looks like a Camry, and that the Genesis looks like a gussied-up Azera... can you?

The Amanti hasn't exactly been a sales success for Kia with its back-to-the-70s looks, has it.

And no, the Sonata does not look just like the last-generation Honda Accord. Have you had your eyes checked lately?

joe97

No the Sonata does not look just like last generation Honda Accord, it might have some resemblence by concidence by nowadays truly unique styling is hard to find and many times accepted. I can just easily make a point about how the current Accord looks like the Sonata and a bunch of other cars.

I hate to be rude but if you couldn't distinguish the Genesis from the Azera, then...(let me stop writing here )





By the way, the Azera looks like a Camry??

joe97

Maybe it's because I was expecting a Lexus LS460 at Toyota Camry XLE prices.

Hate to rain on your parade, but it kind is.

louiswei

Well, to him all imports are look a-like just like to many people all Asians... okay, I guess I'll stop here... :P

I think the Genesis looks much sleeker and sportier than Azera. But for some reason I still can't get over that grill though, why not just bring the KDM version of the flying wing emblem?

louiswei

Well, he was expecting LS460 at Toyota Camry XLE prices but in reality it's more like GS/5er/E at Toyota Avalon prices. So naturally it's a bit of a let down to him.

bumpy

There is a version of the Genesis with the Azera-style grille floating around. With that, the two do look broadly similar from the front. Rear end treatment is different, though.

ateixeira

I don't see much Azera at all.

Azera is an attractive car, with rounded, soft edges. If anything it hints at the old Infiniti J30, in a way.

The Geneis is very different, more upright, sharper, edgier. More Infiniti M35.

I don't see any Camry in either.

joe97

That version didn't make the cut.

It was never officially introduced, which gave us a big hint.

mpuzach

"Didn't say it was a BAD car, it just doesn't have anything anybody else's car doesn't have."

What about a 375 hp V8?

bobad

I have seen the Genesis in person at the Philadelphia Auto Show and it doesn't look as impressive as it has in photos. It's actually a smaller car than I imagined and not much more upscale looking than the Azera.

I bet you're just mad because they wouldn't let you sit in it.

I bet if you take it for a drive and feel that V8 and play with all those toys, you'll change your mind. No other car at that price is even close.

joe97

Didn't say it was a BAD car, it just doesn't have anything anybody else's car doesn't have.

Actually, most of the technologies in the Genesis are not available in a lot of other models, let alone something under 40K. As a matter of fact, you'd have to find multiple cars to only equate to the list of features for the Genesis:

XM and XM NAVTraffic
HD Radio
Electronic active head restraints
Lexicon Discrete Surround Audio Systems (17 speakers; RR Phantom is the only other to have it IIRC)
Smart cruise control (SCC)
Front & rear five-link suspension
Amplitude Selective Dampers (ASD)
Adaptive Front Lighting System (AFLS)
High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps with adaptive leveling
8 inch navigation with backup camera
30 gig hard drive
Push-button start
Electric parking brake
8 ultrasonic sensors
ESC
Eight airbags
Heated and cooled seats
Bluetooth
iPod/USB aux inputs
Automatic windshield defogger with humidity sensor
Rain-sensing wipers
6-speed transmissions (ZF & Aisin)

And more...plus a kick-[non-permissible content removed] warranty, and an amazing price tag

louiswei

I bet if the Genesis is carrying a Buick or Caddy emblem Lemko will be all over the car...

:P

ateixeira

8 inch NAV screen sounds awesome. I've only seen them up to 7".

But...does size really matter?

iluvmysephia1

or anyone else wanting to jump in here. Is a V8 the only engine size offered on the Genesis sedan? Are they gonna go with a V6, too?

Also, this RWD sedan will offer the above features as standard equipment, right? Next question, the Genesis sedan with the above mentioned features...will it cost around $30,000 to start? Sorry for so many questions I've just been focusing elsewhere in the auto industry lately and lost touch with this great new luxury sedan offering from Hyundai. I mean Genesis.

Sounds like an awful lot of goodness for a reasonable price and a great, bold, fresh looking luxury sedan that will butt heads immediately with Infiniti, Lexus, MB, etc. Great job, Hyundai! If I was gonna go luxo this would be the sedan I would buy, without a doubt. Also, I can't wait for the Genesis Coupe to arrive. :P

mpuzach

Genesis will be offered in both V6 and V8 versions. I've heard that starting prices will be roughly $28K for the V6 and roughly $35K for the V8. I imagine that the V8 will have a higher level of standard equipment than the V6. As for specific features, I don't know what will be standard vs. optional; perhaps someone else can chime in on that.

bumpy

Genesis gets 3.3 (250hp?) and 3.8 (300hp?) V6s plus the 375hp 4.6L V8.

bobad

That's a jaw droppin' list right there. I don't care who you are.

joe97

3.3L V6 - 264hp
3.8L V6 - 290hp (this is one of the engines for the coupe, which will pump out over 300 horses, however)
4.6L V8 - 375hp

ateixeira

They've really improved those V6s.

Torque was good but they were low on HP. In 2005 the Kia Amanti made only 200hp from its 3.5l.

They're doing some overtime in Seoul.

bobad

In 2005 the Kia Amanti made only 200hp from its 3.5l.

Those are completely different engines. The Lambda-based V6's are completely new for 2006 and upward. I think they still used the older V6 in some Kias after 2005, but I think it's defunct now. The Lambda's are technologically advanced, and have a lot of headroom, as does the Tau V8... not that 375hp isn't plenty.

ateixeira

Good to hear that.

In the past they've had poor specific output (output per liter of displacement). So they just used bigger engines than the competition.

Looks like that's no longer necessary.

bumpy

In 2005 the Kia Amanti made only 200hp from its 3.5l.

That 3.5L was an ancient Mitsubishi engine, only slightly improved from the 3.0L V6 in the 1989 Sonata. :surprise: The current 3.3 and 3.8L V6s are thoroughly modern designs, and IIRC they all get direct injection in the Genesis.

louiswei

The current 3.3 and 3.8L V6s are thoroughly modern designs, and IIRC they all get direct injection in the Genesis.

Last I checked the only Genesis engine that has DI is the 4.6L V8.

joe97

I don't believe the V8 has DI. I will have to check w/ Hyundai.

carolinabob

First rear wheel drive. First V8. First Hyundai in its "class." Based on my experience with a 2007 Azeara which is based on the Sonata, I would not touch a Genesis until three model years have been on the road.
Hope they succed, but I won't be a guinea pig again.
BTW, Azera resale value is super low and Consumer Reports says it is much worse than average as a used car. Of course, they combine it with the XG350, so that may not mean anything.

bobad

carolinabob, that's not what I'm hearing from Azera owners. They are very happy with their cars, and there were no major growing pains in the new model launch. In fact, it was probably one of the cleanest launches you will find. I was a guinea pig for the new Sonata launch, and have not regretted it for a moment. I think the '09 refresh will be a stellar car, and a steal when the incentives come. I think the Azera is a great candidate for a refresh too. A tweak here and there, and it's a real Avalon killer at a Camry price.

I have no earthly idea why CU is mixing XG350 and Azera statistics. They're apples and oranges. Sonata has been steadily climbing in CU's ratings, and people are taking notice.

carolinabob

They have about dropped off as it appears to be an issue that cannot be resolved, but check the older threads on this and Hyundai-Forums for suspension and front end problems. Probably more total hits than any other Azera topic.
Right now I am waiting for a call from the District Service Rep re: whether or not he will look at my car. Have the replacement 040 shocks and still have the same ride problems noted in Autobytel and Consumers Guide websites.
Per a supervisor at the Hyundai Call Center, the rep does not have to even call me unless he wants to. He can just tell them or the dealer to call me and tell me they are not going to do anything.
Interestingly I took the trouble to write to both Toyota and Lexus to tell them why I did not buy an Avalon or an ES 350. Both called me to discuss it. Better customer service than from the manufacturer of the car I did buy!

carbrat

The newly announced Genesis has me really excited...as an owner of the Azera, I can't wait for a 375 hp V8 that is touted to do 0-60 in under 6 seconds...wonder what the epa will be?....only hope they correct a major flaw in the sound system....the Azera random play ONLY works for a single disc, not between and among discs, which makes it esentially useless as a feature...also they need to have full time running lights...on the Azera, to have the effect of running lights in the daytime (a major item in our mountainous region) I simply have to have the headlights on always, which esentially makes the automatic headlights useless....the initial specs don't mention an automatic rear sunshade like the Azera, which is one of my favorite features

joe97

The sound system will be Lexicon, which is top notch (Rolls Royce Phantom is the only other one to have a Lexicon system in the automotive sector).

Here you can find more info:

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS134750+11-Jan-2008+BW20080111

Power rearsunshade will be there

Here you can find all of the details about the Genesis:

http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp

jaxs1

If it it doesn't have iPod integration, I'm sure it at least has a USB port like the 2009 Sonata. You can covert CDs to MP3 and copy them to an 16GB memory stick and you will have random access to the entire thumb drive.
Random access across multiple CDs may be annoying slow because of the delay between tracks to change CDs and will be alot of of wear on the drive if it was constantly shuffling CDs after every single track is played.

iluvmysephia1

but, correct me if I'm wrong, did I not read in a car mag that the Genesis Coupe will also come in a 2.4L I4 version? Turbo-charged to boot? That Genesis Coupe is a real looker and I am hoping Hyundai chooses not to tone down that concept's bodystyle too much.

The Genesis Sedan offers good-sized V6's offering decent amounts of horsepower and a big 'ole 4.6L V8 producing 375 horses! Wow! Bringing us back to the glorious RWD sedans that the domestics used to produce. Very nice...and affordable luxury, too.

joe97

iPod/USB integration is there. Check the press release I posted.

joe97

The base engine in the coupe will be a 2.0L turbo 4, output around 215-220; optional v6 over 300hp

iluvmysephia1

the Genesis Coupe should be fairly quick even with it's base 2.0L turbo-ed I4 producing 215hp, eh?

joe97

Yeah. The base engine is there to keep the price low and attraction for the enthusiast crowd (think tuning and aftermarket)

iluvmysephia1

and the 4 cyl is the one to get if you want to further power-turbo it up, too. It will void your Hyundai Long-Haul Warranty, but the 4 is the one to buy if you wanna mod, uh-huh.

With the manual tranny 5-speed the est.price for the Genesis Coupe with this getup was printed as being only $19,995. If the car looks like it did in that article I read that is one amazing bargain for that price. Oh, and the article's writer did take note of that, too!

orangelebaron

I like about the Genesis is that it is sooo distinctive and different.
It reeaaalllly stands out.

dborth

the Azera isn't in the same ball park with the Genesis

What do you base that on? Did you consider a product in distribution for over 2 years compared to a product you havn't seen, let alone driven? Give us a break.

bobad

What do you base that on?

Have you read the specs on Genesis? Please do!

http://www.hyundainews.com/Media_Kits/2009_Models/Genesis/Press_Release.asp

carbuyer11

I'd have to agree. On paper, the Genesis blows away the Azera. The Azera is Hyundai's version of the Avalon (yawn). The Genesis has the potential to duke it out with any "entry-level" luxury sedan out there (Infiniti, Acura, etc.etc.). This car is absolutey loaded.

ateixeira

I have no earthly idea why CU is mixing XG350 and Azera statistics

Me neither.

carolinabob

See my post under Azera Service. Hyundai is falling off my radar real quick - Lincoln MKS, Infiniti M35, etc. are looking better all the time.

ateixeira

VW had the same problem with the Phaeton - they just were not ready to service a high-end customer.

Let's see what they do to train their dealers.

carbuyer11

This is a bad comparison. The Phaeton was a $70,000 vehicle being marketed by a company known for the Beetle. It never had a chance. Hyundai is being much more realistic in positioning this as a loaded alternative to the cars currently available under $40K. Sure, the dealers need to step up their game but I have to tell you that I was treated very well when I purchased my Veracruz last June. They went out of their way to accommodate me, even hand delivering my car (I live 60 miles from the dealership). This car feels like a real contender. I can't wait to see one live and in person.

carolinabob

Motor Trend did an article, May 2007, on how impressed they are with what they have seen and been told about the Genesis. They refer to it as "Hyundai Builds V-8 Lexus Fighter" and classifies it as "sport-luxury sedan." The luxury designation is done, but now they need to test it for performance and "sport."
I think the whole luxury vs. not luxury discussion is beyond debate. Everybody has their opinion and everyone is right. Also, some luxury brands sell small econo- boxes in Europe. Does that make them luxury cars? Does it make the plush cars the brand sells over here non-luxury?
BTW, finally got to see the District Service Manager for Hyundai and we all went for a ride in my 2007 and a comparably equipped 2008. The impact harshness that is felt in the seat is normal for Azera and is related to the "sport tuning" of the suspension. 2008 had virtually same ride per district and dealer service managers.
Went over a very bumpy city street.
If this is as good as it gets, I can live with it and enjoy it. It's still a 10 in every area except ride and I give that a 7.5

ateixeira

I disagree.

VW already had the Passat W8. They were in the $40,000 price range, at least near-luxury, if not full blown luxury.

VW was already well beyond the Beetle. Even the New Beetle is a $25,000 car, well beyond a Hyundai Accent or Elantra.

So the Phaeton was one step up for them.

Hyundai does have the Veracruz and the Azera, but this is still a big step up for them. First V8, first luxury car, etc.

joe97

So the Phaeton was one step up for them.

A few steps up

The Genesis makes sense in terms of where it slots in the fleet, as well as from a price stand point.