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Headlights and front ends on modern cars are naturally going to resemble each other. That's because their shape is determined in a wind tunnel. In the past few years, physics has more to do with car styling than stylist's.
Here's proof, side by side I put the lights of the Benz with the Genesis and the Veracruz. Click the thumbnail below to see a big pic.
The Benz is a triangle and has 2 projector beams. They are convex shaped.
Now look at the Genesis light, in the middle. It's trapezoidal and has a concavity in the upper half that the Benz lacks. It also has just one projector.
It would be hard to be any more different, actually. Look closely.
Far right is the Veracruz. It's taller, naturally, since it's fitted to a taller crossover vehicle, but the basic shape is what inspired the Genesis. There is a clear family resemblance. Trapezoid? Check. Concavity? Check. One projector? Check.
If anyone thinks the Genesis' headlight looks exactly like the Benz I suggest a new pair of eye glasses.
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Done bippu style, which is usually reserved for Japanese executive sedans.
Doesn't look right.
"Want a shorter warranty, fewer standard features, and a louder cabin? Just ask for a Lexus."
Now that's in your face. :P
Wonder what the Lexus salesmen are saying about that, and what they will say about the Genesis?
This thread and others are full of back and forth opinions on whether or not Hyundai can compete in the luxury market or build vehicles that compete with lux vehicles. Seems apparent to me that Hyundai has already decided that they can, and they are.
OK, that's pretty obscure. But I'm sure someone here will get it.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
They don't have to see anything.
If a person is cross-shopping Hyundai and Lexus, it's more than likely that person will end up buying a Hyundai. Hardly any Lexus buyers are the so called "value buyers".
If you want to embarrass yourself, go right ahead.
Most likely what'll happen is the Lexus sales rep will listen to your "VC vs RX350 case" with a smile, ask you if you are interested in the RX350, offer you a cup of espresso and cookies, then ask you if there are anything else he can do for you.
If you insist to talk about the brochure he'll just leave you alone and you'll end up looking like a fool.
A Lexus owner shopping for value would be looking for a Toyota.
In a way, it's good that Hyundai is aiming high, but I think Lexus will simply not respond. And Toyota is easily winning the sales battle vs. Hyundai.
It's not a bad idea for Hyundai to use that marketing, though, because their customers are indeed shopping for value, and will feel better about their purchase when it's compared to upscale brands.
Hyundai has Kia on the low end so that can slowly creep upscale, but a company that sold the Excel and Scoupe will never, ever, be on par with Lexus in the minds of customers. You'd have to erase everyone's memory.
"Never" is a very long time. Memories fade. People die--new buyers replace them.
I have no beef against Genesis, no beef against VC and absolutely no beef against Hyundai going after the luxury market. What I have beef against is the idea of Hyundai challenging the luxury brands with the Hyundai badge.
So, in simpler terms, I am not questioning Hyundai's ability to make luxury cars, I am questioning their business decision.
Ding Ding Ding...
BINGO!!!
Putting a different badge on the Genesis won't make it a better car than it is. But it will add considerably to Hyundai's costs for marketing, selling, and supporting the Genesis. Also it would delay the launch of the Genesis, since it would take time to construct the new marque. Hyundai's brand needs shining up; Genesis can help do that, until Hyundai is ready to launch a luxury brand. I don't think 2008 is the year for that.
Hyundai is pushing the issue. Whether or not buyers will "buy it" remains to be seen.
There are a variety of reasons I would not seriously consider an RX that have nothing to do with price. Primarily, my wife just does not like them. She never has cared for the look. Once I get to that, there is not much reason to continue. Actually the GX more closely meets what I am looking for right now.
Starbucks has conclusively shown that people are willing to pay stupid $$$ for coffee and cookies. They built quite an empire along the way. I suppose I could thank the salesman for Lexus figuring out a way to get others to pay it for me.
Again, Hyundai execs are smiling at that thought.
Hardly any Lexus buyers are the so called "value buyers".
Now, I know you didn't really mean to suggest that the typical Lexus buyer considers value to be unimportant.
I don't think Hyundai is attempting to steal away the current luxury brand owner. They might get a few, but I think their target is the up and coming buyer. This buyer may indeed cross shop to established premium brands, but Hyundai is hoping to convince them the premium price just doesn't make sense.
I also do not get a sense that Hyundai has any interest in creating a new luxury or premium division. It appears they are positioning Hyundai as the division that offers the upscale product, though not exclusively the luxury product or the whole typical luxury experience (though buyers of their more upscale models may receive a few more perks somewhere in the mix). They are positioning Kia as their division for the more price conscious buyer. Seems to be an unusual approach, but we'll see if they can stick to it and somehow make it work.
These impressions are also reinforced by language from the brochure. "When it comes to features, amenities and performance, a fancy nameplate isn't always guaranteed to give you the bigger bang." Sure, it's marketing mumbo jumbo, but if that attitude is driving their direction, we will not be seeing a luxury division from Hyundai.
I'm sure it will when it hits The States.
Do you really believe Lexus owners are that, uh, intellectually and reality challenged?
If Toyota had launched their luxury brands carrying the Toyota badge, I don't think sales or perception would be a bit different today. By and large, people know quality, reliability, and value when they see it... even people in upper income brackets.
It appears the powers that be feel that current Hyundai models have nothing to be ashamed of and a lot to be proud of. More power to them for pulling up their brand instead of trying to fool people.
That said, they will have challenges with their dealership network. The Genesis may be intended to improve their dealerships as much as to improve their product image.
Wonder if the Genesis will have rich Corinthian leather?
Again, the waterfall design comes off as a the more aggressive in terms of looks.
Sometimes we should just be happy this car is offering so much for so little...a Genesis brand, let's say, of the exact same car, would likely add at least 10K more in pricing with zero equity.
On that note, Genesis BH 330, 380, 460 (BH is the code name of the project, like E93, and the name convention used in S. Korea) would be just like almost every luxury model out there, alpha, alpha-numeric, numeric. I'm so glad Hyundai is carrying the Genesis name, GS, M, RL, for example, just mean so much, so memorable, not...
The old people that experienced the Excel and the Scoupe will eventually die off. There is a new generation of buyers born everyday. I not not a big fan of Hyundai and I'm not defending then. I'm just saying the obvious. They are always re-marketing them selves. Eventually they will surpass everybody else in sales. They offer a decent vehicle with plenty of peace of mind and at a reasonable price. As Toyota and Honda's price keep soaring up more and more people will starting turning to Hyundai. This sounds ugly but analyst do predict this will happen in the near future.
If I am not mistaken, Toyota came up with its current badge right after Lexus was introduced. I can see some logic in it.
I won't debate that Hyundai has improved exponentially in the past 20 years or even the past 10. But perception is hard to change.
What about the Acura RL?
I agree with the folks here that are saying people eventually forgive and forget.
But...the Excel came out in 1986, IIRC. I was a senior in high school. So people who bought one as their first car are about 35-45 today, assuming they were in high school or in college when the Excel debuted.
That's the prime age segment for a V8 luxury sedan.
(Boy I feel old right now!)
Hyundai will have to aim at fairly young folks, and the question is can a 25-34 year old spring for a $40 grand Korean sedan? It might be a bit of a stretch.
On their side, I recall Kia having the youngest demographic of any manufacturer, so any one of those owners looking to move up are a prime target customer for the Genesis.
Then again, who says they will market it conventionally? By all appearances, they will play up the underdog role and the value card. That alone could work.
They know we are looking right now, so we talked cars for a while. My wife mentioned the Hyundai/Kia products we have looked at and are considering. My FIL asked if they were made in Japan, then he corrected himself to Korea. He said that probably means a pretty good price point. We said yes they are. He was vaguely familiar and mentioned he had heard of the long warranty. My wife said how impressed we were with them, how some friends are happy with them, and how genuinely surprised we were with the Azera we rented last summer. Summed up that they were quite nice, how comfortable she felt at the dealer, and that we might seriously consider one.
Then he commented, not to belittle or condescend, just thinking aloud, "Well, I would never buy one, but I'm sure they are just fine for someone."
No, Hyundai will not "steal away" many if any current premium/luxo owners. But they just might be able to cultivate and carve out their own nitch. If they keep correcting earlier snafus, building a more reliable car, and improving on their customer service, I think they could be quite successful in the long term.
Wow, the Genesis Coupe is sharp looking! And with the Long-Haul Warranty that would be a good price and great value. I wonder how much the production Genesis Coupe will look like the great looking concept car.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
joe97, are you still excited about the Genesis from Hyundai? The sedan and/or the Coupe? Was the Genesis sedan offered at the NAIAS the same one that Hyundai will sell in the States?
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Am I still excited? Of course I am
There were two different Genesis at NAIAS, actually. One with the waterfall grille design and without the H emblem (the same one as in the press kit and at the press conference); also down on the floor, a mesh grille design with the H logo. I prefer the more aggressive waterfall design personally. I think (although don't quote me on it) Hyundai is leaning toward the waterfall design.
In the frontal one, the A-pillar bent out of shape a little. Better vehicles manage not to do that.
But what matters is the impact on the passengers. Did they rate it? Or were those internal tests?
But what matters is the impact on the passengers. Did they rate it? Or were those internal tests?
You're correct that a bent A pillar doesn't affect the passengers. The entire front of the car is sacrificial. They're looking mostly for cabin intrusion and G forces. If the crumple zone is too stiff, the G forces spike too high. If the crumple zone is too soft, it can result in cabin intrusion. The proof of the pudding is what you find inside the cabin, especially around the brake and accelerator pedal areas. It may look a lot better or worse outside than it does inside where it counts.
That said, it looks like the driver's feet and knees are pretty safe. If that was a 1970's or earlier car, I bet it would likely be fatal.
I think that your FIL was clearly communicating that he didn't approve of your choice in vehicles, but that he couldn't come right out and say it. He had to drop a little hint that the vehicle was somehow below his status level and should be below yours.
I got that same message from my father when I bought an Acura RL about 10 years ago. For people in my fathers generation who lived through WWII, they just can't get past the thought of supporting a company from Japan. The irony of my experience was the fact that 3 years ago my Dad bought a Saturn Vue because it had a Honda engine in it. He wanted the quality of the Honda engine without having to own the car. He finally came around last year when he bought a Nissan Murano. I never thought I would see the day that my Dad would own a Japanese vehicle.
I think your FIL might come around too. I do know that the German bias runs deep among some people.