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Actually Backy is 100% wrong. People don't buy a brand, they buy what the brand stands for. People by BMW because BMW has established a reputation for producing high quality sports cars that have an unbelieveble road feel to them. People buy the brand, because they understand what the brand stands for. People who don't understand this, believe people purchase BMW to show off how much they can afford. This garbage about BMWs being expensive while Japanese models are inexpensive is just that. Lexus, Infiniti and Acura as just as expensive.
I'm sure there will be some ballyhoo when someone proclaims the Genesis is better than the 3/5 series, but I won't believe it. The M45 is still chasing after the 550i and Infiniti has been at this for a while.
I agree that BMW will not loss customers to Hyundai but it's because Hyundai just doesn't have the same "brand appeal", "brand image" or "status" as BMW does yet. Not because most BMW owners actually appreciate the sportiness or driving dynamics of their cars.
Sure there are a group of people (enthusiasts) who drives Bimmers because they handle well but I would argue that's not the case for at least half, if not the majority, of the BMW owners. Whenever I see trophy wives and daddy's little girls drive a BMW 328i that always solidifies my opinion.
thanks.
I re-read your post. There is a qualification in the wording and I will use some examples. I'm sure, for example, there is one person in this world who buys a Honda Accord without knowing Honda makes a range of quality, affordable family sedans, and furthermore sells more upscale cars under the Acura brand and furthermore sells other vehicle types also. I'm sure there is a person who buys a Lexus 350 without knowing Lexus mission is to deliver the ultimate in quality, comfort and reliability and their parent company is Toyota. And in the same vein I'm sure there is at least one person who buys a BMW without understanding BMWs philosophy on cars and who by some may be considered to be a "poseur" who should be driving an Elentra. Not a BMW.
But all of these manufacturers together sell a whole lotta cars. And I would be very surprised if any more than a handful of people bought a car from any of these manfacturers without knowing who they are, where they stand and what they do.
FWIW, I think the people who post here are not representative of the general world in their knowledge of manufacturers' objectives and I agree with you if we're looking at our community members. But my personal opinion is that many more people buy cars for payment, color and features with no or little thought toward or interest in manufacturers' objectives; what comes out of their wallet and what they put their rear end in is all they think about. And I also believe that most of those people do not participate in our community.
Have some rum with that eggnog and let's have some holiday spirit! :P
There's no telling how the Genesis will stack up vs. European luxury sedans until the Genesis actually appears. When it's finally available for purchase, people will buy it for all kinds of reasons. Some will do so simply because they like the car; others will do so because they see it as a lower-cost but suitable alternative to European imports. Believe it or not, there will even be those who will buy it because (and not in spite of the fact that) it's a Hyundai.
I can only add that I think there are many people out there that would love to drive a BMW, MB, or Lexus, but can't quite afford the purchase price or high cost of ownership. They end up searching for alternatives. When they actally test drive cars like the Genesis, some will decide it's close enough. In this case, Genesis is not really taking business from the luxury brands. It's accelerating the owner's entry into the luxury market... putting drivers in the seat of a near-luxury car a few years ahead of schedule.
We also don't know on what the final trigger is for a car sale, it may have little to do with the car or everything to do with the car. Some people have a wider range of acceptable standards than other people. But I don't believe for one minute people don't get the difference between Lexus and BMW or Bentley and Infiniti. The latter a ridiculous comparision but illustrates people do understand these differences.
As it relates to this topic, there might be people who want to drive one just to try something new, not because they couldn't tell the difference between an Acura and Hyundai or BMW and Hyundai.
In case you hadn't noticed, BMW makes SUVs also. That means Hyundai may wind up competing against BMW in that market someday, although for now I think the Veracruz is aimed more at the Lexus/Buick part of the SUV market than the BMW part. A "Genesis" SUV down the road perhaps??
BMW makes SAVs not SUVs. I was thinking I wanted a SUV so I could take it offroad or on the beach, siomething with a locking low range. While I think Lexus RX350 is the one to beat, the X3 does a reasonable imitation of a sedan, something the RX350 is very far away from. I thought I had initally like the X3 and disliked the X5 now it's the other way around. BMW has done an awesome job with the X5, the top of the line, which I test drove, is awesome. BMW has to do the same for the X3 oir they will lose customers to the Veracruz.
Maybe Hyundai should borrow a page from BMW and come up with a new acronym for its top-end SUVs--"SVV" perhaps?
Yikes. Tell me people aren't that dumb and shallow. Never mind...I just caught an image of Britney Spears in my mind. They are really that dumb and shallow. :sick:
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Well until the Prius came along the Yugo was the car the liberal greenies wanted us all to drive. You remember the famous line in the song " They swerved to miss a baby duck, they squashed beneath a produce truck, but they drove with pride, in a Yugo"
Image is everything to many in our country.
http://humor.beecy.net/songs/Elvis/
For many people, it's true what you said... they drive a particular car or brand of car to show others they are cool, or well-to-do, or some similar reason related to ego. That's why Hyundai will have some trouble breaking into the luxury vehicle market I think. Hyundai, or even Genesis, isn't the marque that those folks will think of when they plan to plop down 30-40 Big Ones on a car.
You are a funny person. There are XAVs, XUVs, and the ilk. Yes, the X5 (not X3) is a way cool SAV. I don't need to be cool, I like to be coddled...BMW style. :shades
Of course I know there's a big difference. But then again, one can't buy a new 550i for around $21k (advertised price for the Azera SE in my local paper today). The Azera is a lot of car for that kind of money. It looks like the Genesis will offer a lot of car for its asking price. Those who need or want what the 550i offers and can afford to pay the price, that's what they'll buy.
BTW, "... people who can afford luxury vehicles, get what they pay for ..." sounds a lot like a cliche to me.
You have made my point, thank you. The circular argument going on is people buy luxury brands because they are snobs and want to show off what they have. While I'm sure there are those who believe in the absolute sense the Azera is out-BMWs the 550, back on planet earth there is a world of difference in the cars and a world of difference in the price. Getting back to your "cliche".. you get what you pay for is no cliche and usually the truth. The converse is a bargain is usually a bargain, even if you don't want to believe it.
I find it hard to believe that there are actually people out there who believe that the Azera out-BMWs a 550i, but I guess with 6+ billion people on the planet, you could find at least one person who has any given point of view.
As for "you get what you pay for" not being a cliche... try googling "cliche" plus "you get what you pay for" and see what pops up.
When I figure out what you mean by "a bargain is a bargain", I'll be able to tell you if I believe it or not. :confuse:
And not the X6 SAV either. Yikes.
I'll let you decide. :shades
Your point, correct me if I'm wrong, is that *somre* people by things to impress others. The subtext is that the things they buy are usually no better than the less expensive variety, which I'm sure you didn't really mean. While I'm sure there are people who buy things to impress others, it's actually none of our business why people buy high-end BMWs, Lexus, and other expensive depreciating assets. While the intended mission of a Rolex may no better than a Timex, or the intended mssion of a 760 may be no better than an Azera, it's the way the intended mission is accomplished.
Wood steering, leather, and a host of "other" luxury features are now mainstream, separating near-luxury from luxury is becoming difficult. If Hyundai wants to compete with Lexus, they better do what Lexus does only better and less expensive.
The brand new Genesis/Tibby coupe I just read an article on in MT or C&D or R&T(they all run together to me
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I believe that Hyundai can do what Lexus does, at a lower price. I think they have demonstrated already they can do that with the Veracruz and to some extent with the Azera. The Genesis will take Hyundai further down that path.
Hyundai is in this for the long-haul and the Genesis is their product, both in sedan and coupe form to enhance their image. In the boardroom at Hyundai, I am quite sure their objective is not to go head-to-head with Lexus. Despite the fact your see them voicing this with RX350 vs. Veracruz comparisons, their real objective is undoubtedly to enhance their brand image by even being considered and they know this is a marathon and not a sprint. This is an incemental process. The Genesis is another step in the process to get to the Top Five and to maximize profits. They make a great deal more money on Veracruz's, Santa Fe's, Azera's, Sonata's and Genesis' than they used to make on all of the Accents and Elantra's they sold. Even with rebates.
High-quality leather interior
Genuine wood interior trim (and none of the cheap-looking fake stuff)
Attractive and complete interior lighting, including ALL controls (e.g. power mirror controls, maplight & moonroof buttons) and ambient lighting
Comfortable seats with adequate thigh and lateral support, multi-level heating AND cooling
Separate rear compartment A/C controls
Active cruise control (at least as an option)
Outstanding sound system
Multiple suspension settings
Active xenon headlights
High-quality interior surfaces, minimal use of hard plastics
At least a few exterior colors not shared with other Hyundais
In coming up with this list, I'm assuming that they have the bigger things e.g. outstanding power train & brakes, electronics, etc. covered. If they omit too many items from the above list, though, the Genesis will be little more than another entry in the already-crowded "standard" sedan segment. They'd be better off loading it up, adding a few grand to the price, and making it a true luxury competitor IMO.
Re: Genesis coupe - rumored the I4 turbo will start just under 20K and the V6 version will be around 24, 25K. As Hyundai said, the most affordable 300hp + V6; and may I add the only I4 turbo when it hits the market.
It's hard to say whether Hyundai has finalized the name of the coupe, it probably has already. If there is any hesitation, it would be the reputation of the Tiburon already with the market, with the good following, especially in the enthusiast crowd. I'd like the return of the Tiburon nameplate but it's logical to be called Genesis coupe, especially since the "true" Tib replacement is forthcoming.
Oh, I quoted the V6 version, but the one I would buy would be the I4 turbo version. At that price it only makes me salivate. I currently am driving a '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS with the automatic CVT. If I bought a two-door coupe like this I would want the standard 5-speed transmission. This new Genesis coupe is beautiful. The magazine was confused as to whether it was gonna be called the Genesis coupe or the Tiburon, so it got me confused as well.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Also I can't understand why Hyundai would offer a coupe that offers both an I4 (turbo) and V6, and starts under $20k, plus offer another coupe that is supposedly a replacement for the Tiburon. How much different in price would these two cars be? With a pretty well equipped Elantra sedan starting at $17k MSRP these days, who would buy a FWD I4 Elantra-based (assumption) coupe when they could spend a couple thousand more and get a turbo I4 RWD coupe? And what would be the combined market for these two coupes? IMO, Hyundai should spend its resources making sure the Genesis launch is flawless and massaging their bread-and-butter vehicles (Sonata, Santa Fe, Elantra) into class-leaders in every way possible.
Hopefully it is a little roomier than the current Tiburon. My sister has one and I have driven it twice. I have to hold my head sideways to see out the windshield or let the seat tilt back to where I am laying more than sitting. It is the most uncomfortable coupe I have ever driven. It does look racy and my sis loves it.
The Veloster concept, hinted for forthcoming fwd coupe, is i30 based, IIRC.
No need to grope for the button LOOK for the light.... easy :=)
The fact is that this Genesis is the single most important product Hyundai has ever built. It's bigger than the 10-year warranty, it's bigger than their quality improvements and JD Power rankings and bigger than the new Sonata, Santa Fe or Veracruz. Why?
It's all about perception in this industry and Hyundai is not perceived to be equal to the top tier brands of Honda and Toyota. In fact, Hyundai's own research shows that despite initial quality nearly equal to Lexus, rave reviews for safety and design and even improved reliability, they are barely equal with domestics, even after a $800 milllion dollar advertising campaign to tout their gains! Hyundai's image and sales are flat. So what do you do? If you're Hyundai you build a perception altering, paradigm shifting sedan and coupe that creates a buzz like never before. Overcompensate. You set aside five years, a half-a- billion dollars, you buiild your first real RWD, a direct injection V8, give it almost 400hp, put every imagineable option that you can get on a Lexus or Bimmer and hope it grabs the attention of the media who influences the public. Then wait to see if it trickles down to your money-making volume products. Who cares how many you sell. With revenues of $67 billion last year, Hyundai can afford to take this risk to keep their big investment factories running. You also concentrate more on how well it is built and how much press it gets. The Genesis is overkill and it's NOT really intended to compete with the sister, Lexus, but the big brother, Toyota, who really makes the big money selling millions of Camry's, Corolla's and RAV 4's.
It's a sensible strategy for if they succeed in enhancing their image, there will be huge payoffs when Camry, Accord, CRV or RAV4 buyers now consider the Hyundai. If it works you won't worry about your Montgomery plant because Sonata's and Santa Fe's will be flying out of there at record levels. And watch your Azera's, Veracruz's, Accents, Tucsons and Elantra's move too!
So forget about the Genesis being Hyundai's attempt to compete with other luxury brands. If Hyundai was attempting to get in the luxury market, they would rebadge Azera, Veracruz, Genesis and Genesis coupe and give us a luxury brand now!. But they aren't spending the $1 billion to set up a luxury marque and they won't any time soon.
If you are listening, Chairman Chung, the Genesis better be good. When Edmunds, Autoblog, Jalopnik, Car and Driver and Motor Trend tests this, if it is not huge news, if it is not given a big thumbs up, if the ride, performance, handling and execution isn't right there with Lexus and BMW, after all the buzz the media has created for you, you will have blown an opporuntunity to get to the top tier that other automakers like Mazda and Mitsubishi will never get again and are now relegated to the second level of manufacturers. Remember the Mazda Millenia? Gone. Remember the Mitsubishi Diamante? Gone. Since then their sales have basically remained flat. Those models were their Genesis and they never got to the table.
Also, consider that there are other markets for Hyundai besides North America, so the Genesis gives them a luxury vehicle to sell in those markets--including the important ROK home market.
They never had an image..... no real power and not much style