Uh, no... I said the Genesis took 2nd place to the GT-R in the MTCOTY Uh, YES. Your statement was that the Genesis finished second BUT that was to a $75k car. A price dependent implication if there ever was one :confuse: But you are right about one thing, it is when we can talk about anything that Hyundai makes AND NOT MENTION ITS PRICE that Hyundai has managed to shed some of those image problems that continue to dog them. The Genesis a step in the right direction, we'll see if they can keep it going.....
They really do make a pretty nice car Never said they didn't or it wasn't - but what I have been saying is that it can't be a 'luxury' anything - not with that brand name.
You seem to still be confusing luxury with prestige. There is no doubt that the Genesis is a luxury car...but it hasn't been around long enough to be considered a prestigious car.
but it hasn't been around long enough to be considered a prestigious car Not confusing them at all, but will stick by my contention that what is a 'luxury' car is a lot more than what's on the option lists. And yes, the prestige attached to a brand (usually comes with higher pricing) does have something to do with it.
Yes, I would expect a car that costs twice the price of another car to be superior. How about you?
When Hyundais are free, then we can talk about them without mentioning their price. It's natural to talk about the price of something that costs tens of thousands of dollars... unless that kind of money is just pocket change to you.
You seem to still be confusing luxury with prestige. There is no doubt that the Genesis is a luxury car...but it hasn't been around long enough to be considered a prestigious car.
Well, to be fair you can't forget that the definition of "luxury" differs depending on each person.
I, for one, don't think the Genesis is a true luxury car just yet, near luxury / entry level luxury, yes. Thing is by my standard the Genesis still lacks enough customer service quality, and material quality to pass for a true luxury car. I still see too many cheap plastic bits inside, and while Hyundai's customer service castly improved over the years it's still not on par with class standards.
My belief is if you don;t have the prestige, you need the service quality. For example: BMW has the prestige but not the service, while Infiniti doesn;t have the rpestige yet but have excellent customer service. Hyundai hasn't delivered enough of any of the above.
That's my views. Feel free to disagree, but remember there's no right or wrong with this kind of topic, only agree or disagree.
Just having this conversation about Hyundai is amazing, whether Hyundai has produced a luxury car or not. Me personally is that it is a true modern luxury automobile. For it to become a prestige car Hyundai will have to separate Genesis from Hyundai. and make it it's own brand. You see hints of that already, like how they report monthly sales of the Genesis, bringing the Equus to US for viewings, and top Hyundai brass expressing their goals for the future of Genesis. After I got my Genesis last month I had the wings installed, including the steering wheel and simply call it a "GENESIS". People have no clue its Hyundai. My compliments to Hyundai for such a bold step into luxury territory...they will suceed!!
Glad you like your car. I have no doubt that Hyundai will succeed, and like I've pointed out so many times, Hyundai needs a separate brand for it's luxo division even if only because Americans and so many other countries are stuck on image. Hyundai seems to be a very fast learner and I think if we give them time a true luxury division will emerge, just not now.
I do think Hyundai has produced a luxury car, but in the form of Equus, not Genesis. Genesis is a nice car, but still has a lot of homework to do to become a true luxo car by my standard. First off improve the customer service, and then upgrade that cheesy plastic-wood and fake metal trims, they look and feel cheap.
Meanwhile if I have to choose a Hyundai, it'll be a dark blue or black Gen coupe.
I have yet to see any newer automobile that did not have a lot of plastic inside. I guess it is hard for me to distinguish between cheap plastic and expensive plastic. Does expensive plastic come from Europe exclusively?
What particular "cheap plastic bits" are you talking about? Have you spent a lot of time actually inside the Genesis, touching the plastic (and leather) and actually driving the car? Or as you say, does the plastic just look cheap? If that is the case you have a very discerning eye.
These forums would disappear very quickly in we all agreed or had the same tastes.
Luxury is tangible and easily measurable. Genesis easily measures up in luxury to anything in its price class and well beyond. Luxury is simply comfort, quiet, quality of materials, and options. No, Genesis is not a prestige car, but to me, "prestige" means the buyer was willing to get soaked for intangibles. Prestige cars are not about the value of the car, they are about the value of the buyer's money.
Thanks for your input! The outside of Equus is little bit more define than the Genesis, but the Genesis's interior design is far better than Equus. Yes the Equus will have more technology but Genesis fits me just fine with the Tech package. Sometimes I think car makers get to carried away with options.
And yes customer service will have to continue to improve
These forums would disappear very quickly in we all agreed or had the same tastes.
That is very true indeed
What particular "cheap plastic bits" are you talking about? Have you spent a lot of time actually inside the Genesis, touching the plastic (and leather) and actually driving the car?
I can easily point them out. Easiest example: the metal look plastic is definitely cheap looking compared to what you'll see in an Infiniti or even a Chrysler 300. The plasti-wood would've looked ok until you see the ones VW use. In case of the "wood" trim, a little more graining, less gloss and thicker plastic so it won't flex easily will really help.
This is what I'm talking about when I mention look and feel. Try Acura TL (not the '09, that one sucks) or at least a VW Jetta for a comparison and you'll definitely understand what I'm saying.
I didn;t drive the car for long, aout 10 mins or so, but it was enough to point out that it's a comfort oriented car, sacrificing handling for ride quality (which is wise as Hyundais aren't good handlers). For those interested in long distance cruise or at least soft ride this car is prefect. For me who prefer handling over ride it's no match.
Discerning eye? perhaps, as I'm a very picky person.
Does expensive plastic come from Europe exclusively?
No way, Acura TL and Lexus ES are examples that using better plastics in $35k cars is definitely possible. It's not exclusive, just about how much a company's willing to spend in developing better materials for it's cars.
I've sat in an Equus, which belongs to a neighbor here. True it lacks the design inside out (bland inside, Toyota Crown carbon copy outside) but the materials used are really nice compared to a Genesis. My only concern is it's nowhere near good enough if Hyundai really wants to place it in the $70k category to face the likes of Audi A8 and MB S-class. If we're talking the $50k sedan category, that's a different story.
My only concern is it's nowhere near good enough if Hyundai really wants to place it in the $70k category to face the likes of Audi A8 and MB S-class. If we're talking the $50k sedan category, that's a different story.
I don't think you should be concerned. If Hyundai brings in the Equus, it will spank everthing in its price class, just like Genesis, Gen Coupe, Sonata, Santa Fe, and Veracruz do so handily.
If you prefer handling I assume that means BMW or Porsche. BMW's have acres of what I would call bland, blank, cheap looking plastic. A lot of our preferences and biases usually just turn out to be what we are used to.
Once we own a particular car, voila, it turns out to be perfect !!
Exactly. That's why there is no way Hyundai will try to sell the Equus in the U.S. for anything close to $70k. $40-$50k would be more realistic, and would dovetail nicely with the pricing on the Genesis sedan.
Me thinks you are a little bias. First off the Chrysler 300 has some of the cheaper plastics in a vehicle. The Genesis uses real premium wood btw. Do a lil more homework and don't hate, "CONGRATULATE"!!! NORTH AMERICAN CAR OF THE YEAR. :P We all have a lil hate in our blood for instance I hated when the 2008 Malibu beat my 2008 Camry for the NACOTY. You must admit though just about all over the internet people (even haters ) are saying and giving tons of excellent reviews about the Genesis. Come join us and don't give into the dark side.
For my money, I'd rather spend 10K less and get a loaded Genesis, which looks much better, and even with its mediocre manners, probably handles better, too. The Equus as it is makes a Lexus look like a soulful Italian.
I can't see the market rushing to embrace a 50K+ car from what is known as a value brand that looks like a larger clone of an invisible model costing half the money. Maybe there's a new generation of this thing coming, updated by people who can design cars.
I don't think m4d_cow hates the Genesis, his definition of luxury is different than a lot of folks. here. Now my take on the Genesis is that it is a luxury automobile and and has a chance to become a "prestige automobile" in time.
The inital reception to Hyundai making a luxury car has been outstanding but before Genesis goes further it will take a large financial commitment from Hyundai to do so and that is, sub brand the Genesis name, customer service, advertising (product placing), and new product development. I don't think "Hyundai" will ever be anymonous with luxury, but will continue to grow with fine, well executed, value cars. I do believe they are playing the similar playbook that Toyota did with Lexus in 1989 but with less money in order to keep the costs down.
Remember Lexus was not a luxury car when it first came out, European brands laughed. It took a few years but Lexus did become a prestige after the public accepted it. Hyundai is well on their way doing the same thing but 20 years later.
Lexus certainly was a luxury brand when it came here in 89, and I think it took about 6 months for the prestige to be born. I remember when I was in high school around 1991 or so, a Lexus already was seen as a very nice upmarket car.
The period for Hyundai to mimic that, if it happens, will be longer. The LS aped the old W126 S-class, virtually an updated line by line copy. The Genesis isn't so ambitious, which might not hurt it.
Remember Lexus was not a luxury car when it first came out, European brands laughed. It took a few years but Lexus did become a prestige after the public accepted it. Hyundai is well on their way doing the same thing but 20 years later.
There certainly are some remarkable similarities and I hope the Genesis is on the same path. The European brands are still laughing at Lexus...but it is kind of a sick laugh and it's to keep from crying !!
I can't see the market rushing to embrace a 50K+ car from what is known as a value brand that looks like a larger clone of an invisible model costing half the money.
I'll bet many people said something like that not too long ago regarding the Genesis sedan--that the market would not rush to embrace a $40k car from what is known as a value brand. Yet so far the market acceptance has been quite good. So I am not going to bet against the Equus yet. We don't even know what the car that will reach the U.S. will look like, and drive like.
I don't think anyone has complained the Genesis looks like a larger version of a cheaper and fairly ignored smaller Hyundai. One reason the Genesis has been as accepted as it is, is because the styling apes already successful higher line cars. This is the same playbook used by Lexus with the original LS.
If the Equus has that supersized Azera bodywork when/if it comes here, that will not be a wise decision.
You have to love it when an underdog like Hyundai pulls off this amazing upset. The chassis, suspension , engine, transmission, and the plethora of other great features (such as ride, handling, and technology) is what makes a true luxury car what it is. The Genesis has all these things, :shades: and there is room in the luxury market for other car manufacturers to step up their game. The economy being the way it is shows you can get your steak at a hotdog price with Hyundai. People are looking for real value. Not some overpriced vehicle that is living off last years news. :sick:
Lexus, Bmw, Mercedes, Audi, Acura, and whoever else need to start looking into affordability for the average consumer, and not making there wallets fat off old history. :mad:
I don't think you should be concerned. If Hyundai brings in the Equus, it will spank everthing in its price class, just like Genesis, Gen Coupe, Sonata, Santa Fe, and Veracruz do so handily.
Oh yes I am concerned. Dont forget that the upper luxury class put little consideration in value and price, otherwise Lexus with it's LS would've ruled the class long time ago.
Customers looking for cars in the north of $50k range don't usually put high priority on value, hence the failure with Acura RL (okay, plus it's horrific reliability) and the fact that even when priced lower Audi A6 and Lexus GS fail to beat BMW and MB in sales.
Placing Equus in this class (midsize luxo) will give it a better fighting chance. Placing it to fight the 70k sedans is suicidal. Remember VW's idiocy with Phaeton. Noone and I mean noone can argue that it's a great car with amazing interior quality, tanklike fit-finish, plush ride, etc, all at prices lower than the rest of the German trio. Yet it failed, why? Two things IMO: 1. Prestige matters there, a lot 2. Value is mostly overlooked in this class.
Once we own a particular car, voila, it turns out to be perfect !!
Not me, I used to drive an 04 330i and while I loved the handling I could easily point out the plain dash, terrible sound system and and radio display that's impossible to see when you wear polarized shades.
Huh? When did I ever say I hate Gen? It's a good car for those looking a comfy near luxo sedan with (to my amusement) Lexuslike soft ride. But to call it a luxury vehicle is off by my standards. A good car? yes, a luxury car? not yet.
Maybe I got it wrong, the test car (it's got "display unit, not for sale" label on it) I was shown definitely got plastic-wood in it.
It's not about hating Genesis, I prefer handling over ride so I'd choose G37 if I'm in the market. For those looking for ride, I'd actually recommend the Genesis first before saying Lexus ES. I'm serious.
The same with Malibu, they can call it car of the year for all I care, but I don;t like it enough to choose it even if I;m in the market. Too fat, too heavy, ok materials but poor fit-finish, the list goes on (though I'd say the same about Camry-Accord).
Oh yes I am concerned. Dont forget that the upper luxury class put little consideration in value and price, otherwise Lexus with it's LS would've ruled the class long time ago
Sorry to have to tell you this but the LS has ruled the class for the last 12 or 15 years now. It has been the sales champ in the U.S. for at least that long.
It has been the sales champ in the U.S. for at least that long. Fully equipped Camry cost less than bmw 335i. Does it mean Camry is better car which could be driven instead of moving body from point A to point B? No, Camry is appliance, bmw - das auto:-)
"Early 2009 Hyundai Genesis sedans earned just an Acceptable rating from the IIHS for frontal-impact safety -- after the crash dummy's head hit the steering wheel through the airbag and then rebounded into the B-pillar. There was also a significant risk of lower leg injury. Genesis sedans built after November 2008 received modifications to correct for these deficiencies."
Even at 55K, with those looks...is there that much of a demographic that thinks a Lexus is too exciting? A much better looking car in the Genesis for much less money...it would be Hyundai acting like GM and making its strongest competition to be itself.
I don't see any signs of Hyundai competing with itself. So far there are nicely spaced price niches from ~$14K to $42K with very little overlap. I have heard several unbiased remarks from people saying Genesis made Azera redundant, and it's on the way out. I wouldn't be surprised.
I can believe that, I believe it used to be because of the price, but now is it really still the price? The LS prices are too darn near the German competitors to say that.
So is it really the price or the eerily quiet cabin and extremely soft ride, plus super quality materials and fit-finish?
Equus doesn't deliver enough of those yet.
Botom line is: Hyundai can receive my praise or my mocks depending on it's own decisions, like, getting reasonable and placing their products to compete in the right class segment.
I can't see how it would be a better choice for anyone over a Genesis.
As seen in many of those photos posted earlier, the Equus is far move technologically advanced than the Genesis. The Equus also would be the first model to receive the other Tau family of engines (ie 5.0L/5.5L).
How's the Equus a supersized Azera?
Bobad is correct - Hyundai's lineup is adequately placed, with very little overlap, including the price ranges.
If Hyundai decides to bring over the Equus, the car WILL not start at 70K, contrary to many internet rumors, including on here. And if Hyundai brings over the Equus, I am thinking they would be modest and surely would be happy if they sell 100 units a month, unlike certain arrogant automaker who thought they could sell thousands of units by priicng its car with a starting price in the upper 60s.
There are a lot of intangibles and equities the Equus can bring to the table. For a market like the US, Hyundai can improve its perception with such product, equating to additional traffic to showroom, and in turn benefit to the whole lineup - see Genesis.
The greenhouse of the Equus is almost identical to the Azera, and the styling is very similar otherwise. Azera on steroids. Sadly, the Azera almost doesn't exist anymore. The Genesis makes it a nonentity, and the Genesis looks so much better .
The Euros do sell thousands of units of their higher priced cars. Some seem to think they equal the 5er/E etc now, I am sure the Equus will destroy the S/7 etc.
Maybe Hyundai can compete with Rolls/Bentley etc next :P
As long as Hyundai remains reasonable, I see huge success ahead.
Regardless of price, placing Equus to play against Lexus LS and MB S-class is still suicidal. Lexus prevailed in the past with LS because it covered the weakness of LS (prestige, technology) with incredible customer service and reliability. Thing is, customers aren't as lenient as they used to be, they demand more and more, as shown by Infiniti's failure to do the same with Q despite the red carpet service, Or VW with Phaeton. Even if the same formula still works, Hyundai's customer service is still nowhere near Lexus'.
Fighting in the $50k range is a different story. Customers are still demanding and value means little still, but it's much easier for Hyundai to meet the class' standards. Hyundai is on the right track, but needs to be patient. It's already improving faster than any japanese company did. Hell, it's already improving faster than ANY other automaker.
Jack Nicklaus, Arnold Palmer, and Gary Player are all very prestigious golfers with very good names...but they can't cut the mustard any more and go out and actually compete and win tournaments. The young guns have taken over, new names that most people haven't heard of. But they will. It's a changing of the guard and happens ever so often.
Could the same thing be happening in the car business? The U.S car biz is certainly on the ropes thanks to Japan and Europe. And these two are now looking nervously over their shoulders at Korea, China, and India. If you want to stay on top today it will take a lot more than prestige and past greatness.... and that is good for all of us who love cars.
If Japan hadn't showed up GM and Chrysler would be fat and happy today and we would all be driving $50,000. Dodge Neons and Chevy Chevetes while dreaming about a $100,000. Cadillac with beautiful blue velour interior and a one year or 12,000 mile warranty.
Let's see, just off the top of my head: new engine, LED headlamps, pre-safe seatbelt system, lane departure warning system, VSM II. Just by looking at the video posted, it'd be easy to figure out this one is more technologically advanced than the Genesis. And that's kind of by default, the Equus sits above the Genesis in terms of model matrix.
I personally don't see the Equus as an Azera on steriods but styling is subjective.
By the way, the arrogant automaker I posted earlier was VW. I wasn't talking about other Euro luxury models.
I agree in principal but the question is the timeline.
We've all seen BMW Isettas, and look where they are today. Humble origins do not exclude an upscale march.
I do think it will be harder to do today, though, only because the Isetta existed at a time when other cars were not so good. The competition wasn't nearly what it is today.
Comments
Uh, YES. Your statement was that the Genesis finished second BUT that was to a $75k car. A price dependent implication if there ever was one :confuse:
But you are right about one thing, it is when we can talk about anything that Hyundai makes AND NOT MENTION ITS PRICE that Hyundai has managed to shed some of those image problems that continue to dog them. The Genesis a step in the right direction, we'll see if they can keep it going.....
Never said they didn't or it wasn't - but what I have been saying is that it can't be a 'luxury' anything - not with that brand name.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Not confusing them at all, but will stick by my contention that what is a 'luxury' car is a lot more than what's on the option lists. And yes, the prestige attached to a brand (usually comes with higher pricing) does have something to do with it.
When Hyundais are free, then we can talk about them without mentioning their price. It's natural to talk about the price of something that costs tens of thousands of dollars... unless that kind of money is just pocket change to you.
Well, to be fair you can't forget that the definition of "luxury" differs depending on each person.
I, for one, don't think the Genesis is a true luxury car just yet, near luxury / entry level luxury, yes. Thing is by my standard the Genesis still lacks enough customer service quality, and material quality to pass for a true luxury car. I still see too many cheap plastic bits inside, and while Hyundai's customer service castly improved over the years it's still not on par with class standards.
My belief is if you don;t have the prestige, you need the service quality. For example: BMW has the prestige but not the service, while Infiniti doesn;t have the rpestige yet but have excellent customer service. Hyundai hasn't delivered enough of any of the above.
That's my views. Feel free to disagree, but remember there's no right or wrong with this kind of topic, only agree or disagree.
I do think Hyundai has produced a luxury car, but in the form of Equus, not Genesis. Genesis is a nice car, but still has a lot of homework to do to become a true luxo car by my standard. First off improve the customer service, and then upgrade that cheesy plastic-wood and fake metal trims, they look and feel cheap.
Meanwhile if I have to choose a Hyundai, it'll be a dark blue or black Gen coupe.
What particular "cheap plastic bits" are you talking about? Have you spent a lot of time actually inside the Genesis, touching the plastic (and leather) and actually driving the car? Or as you say, does the plastic just look cheap? If that is the case you have a very discerning eye.
These forums would disappear very quickly in we all agreed or had the same tastes.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And yes customer service will have to continue to improve
That is very true indeed
What particular "cheap plastic bits" are you talking about? Have you spent a lot of time actually inside the Genesis, touching the plastic (and leather) and actually driving the car?
I can easily point them out. Easiest example: the metal look plastic is definitely cheap looking compared to what you'll see in an Infiniti or even a Chrysler 300. The plasti-wood would've looked ok until you see the ones VW use. In case of the "wood" trim, a little more graining, less gloss and thicker plastic so it won't flex easily will really help.
This is what I'm talking about when I mention look and feel. Try Acura TL (not the '09, that one sucks) or at least a VW Jetta for a comparison and you'll definitely understand what I'm saying.
I didn;t drive the car for long, aout 10 mins or so, but it was enough to point out that it's a comfort oriented car, sacrificing handling for ride quality (which is wise as Hyundais aren't good handlers). For those interested in long distance cruise or at least soft ride this car is prefect. For me who prefer handling over ride it's no match.
Discerning eye? perhaps, as I'm a very picky person.
Does expensive plastic come from Europe exclusively?
No way, Acura TL and Lexus ES are examples that using better plastics in $35k cars is definitely possible. It's not exclusive, just about how much a company's willing to spend in developing better materials for it's cars.
I've sat in an Equus, which belongs to a neighbor here. True it lacks the design inside out (bland inside, Toyota Crown carbon copy outside) but the materials used are really nice compared to a Genesis. My only concern is it's nowhere near good enough if Hyundai really wants to place it in the $70k category to face the likes of Audi A8 and MB S-class. If we're talking the $50k sedan category, that's a different story.
I don't think you should be concerned. If Hyundai brings in the Equus, it will spank everthing in its price class, just like Genesis, Gen Coupe, Sonata, Santa Fe, and Veracruz do so handily.
Once we own a particular car, voila, it turns out to be perfect !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I can't see the market rushing to embrace a 50K+ car from what is known as a value brand that looks like a larger clone of an invisible model costing half the money. Maybe there's a new generation of this thing coming, updated by people who can design cars.
The inital reception to Hyundai making a luxury car has been outstanding but before Genesis goes further it will take a large financial commitment from Hyundai to do so and that is, sub brand the Genesis name, customer service, advertising (product placing), and new product development. I don't think "Hyundai" will ever be anymonous with luxury, but will continue to grow with fine, well executed, value cars. I do believe they are playing the similar playbook that Toyota did with Lexus in 1989 but with less money in order to keep the costs down.
Remember Lexus was not a luxury car when it first came out, European brands laughed. It took a few years but Lexus did become a prestige after the public accepted it. Hyundai is well on their way doing the same thing but 20 years later.
The period for Hyundai to mimic that, if it happens, will be longer. The LS aped the old W126 S-class, virtually an updated line by line copy. The Genesis isn't so ambitious, which might not hurt it.
There certainly are some remarkable similarities and I hope the Genesis is on the same path. The European brands are still laughing at Lexus...but it is kind of a sick laugh and it's to keep from crying !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I'll bet many people said something like that not too long ago regarding the Genesis sedan--that the market would not rush to embrace a $40k car from what is known as a value brand. Yet so far the market acceptance has been quite good. So I am not going to bet against the Equus yet. We don't even know what the car that will reach the U.S. will look like, and drive like.
If the Equus has that supersized Azera bodywork when/if it comes here, that will not be a wise decision.
Lexus, Bmw, Mercedes, Audi, Acura, and whoever else need to start looking into affordability for the average consumer, and not making there wallets fat off old history. :mad:
Oh yes I am concerned. Dont forget that the upper luxury class put little consideration in value and price, otherwise Lexus with it's LS would've ruled the class long time ago.
Customers looking for cars in the north of $50k range don't usually put high priority on value, hence the failure with Acura RL (okay, plus it's horrific reliability) and the fact that even when priced lower Audi A6 and Lexus GS fail to beat BMW and MB in sales.
Placing Equus in this class (midsize luxo) will give it a better fighting chance. Placing it to fight the 70k sedans is suicidal. Remember VW's idiocy with Phaeton. Noone and I mean noone can argue that it's a great car with amazing interior quality, tanklike fit-finish, plush ride, etc, all at prices lower than the rest of the German trio. Yet it failed, why? Two things IMO:
1. Prestige matters there, a lot
2. Value is mostly overlooked in this class.
Not me, I used to drive an 04 330i and while I loved the handling I could easily point out the plain dash, terrible sound system and and radio display that's impossible to see when you wear polarized shades.
Maybe I got it wrong, the test car (it's got "display unit, not for sale" label on it) I was shown definitely got plastic-wood in it.
It's not about hating Genesis, I prefer handling over ride so I'd choose G37 if I'm in the market. For those looking for ride, I'd actually recommend the Genesis first before saying Lexus ES. I'm serious.
The same with Malibu, they can call it car of the year for all I care, but I don;t like it enough to choose it even if I;m in the market. Too fat, too heavy, ok materials but poor fit-finish, the list goes on (though I'd say the same about Camry-Accord).
No, no I'm not. I'm talking about the Equus. Are you saying the Equus would come in at $70K? I was thinking more like $55K.
Sorry to have to tell you this but the LS has ruled the class for the last 12 or 15 years now. It has been the sales champ in the U.S. for at least that long.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Fully equipped Camry cost less than bmw 335i. Does it mean Camry is better car which could be driven instead of moving body from point A to point B? No, Camry is appliance, bmw - das auto:-)
S class, Audi A8 and BMW 7 Series. All direct competitors.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2009 Hyundai Genesis Crash Tests by the IIHS (Straightline)
Old story: Hyundai Genesis Aces Crash Tests
However, unless this Equus receives some kind of renovation, I can't see how it would be a better choice for anyone over a Genesis.
Of course no praise for Hyundai is unbiased...
So is it really the price or the eerily quiet cabin and extremely soft ride, plus super quality materials and fit-finish?
Equus doesn't deliver enough of those yet.
Botom line is: Hyundai can receive my praise or my mocks depending on it's own decisions, like, getting reasonable and placing their products to compete in the right class segment.
As seen in many of those photos posted earlier, the Equus is far move technologically advanced than the Genesis. The Equus also would be the first model to receive the other Tau family of engines (ie 5.0L/5.5L).
How's the Equus a supersized Azera?
Bobad is correct - Hyundai's lineup is adequately placed, with very little overlap, including the price ranges.
If Hyundai decides to bring over the Equus, the car WILL not start at 70K, contrary to many internet rumors, including on here. And if Hyundai brings over the Equus, I am thinking they would be modest and surely would be happy if they sell 100 units a month, unlike certain arrogant automaker who thought they could sell thousands of units by priicng its car with a starting price in the upper 60s.
There are a lot of intangibles and equities the Equus can bring to the table. For a market like the US, Hyundai can improve its perception with such product, equating to additional traffic to showroom, and in turn benefit to the whole lineup - see Genesis.
The greenhouse of the Equus is almost identical to the Azera, and the styling is very similar otherwise. Azera on steroids. Sadly, the Azera almost doesn't exist anymore. The Genesis makes it a nonentity, and the Genesis looks so much better .
The Euros do sell thousands of units of their higher priced cars. Some seem to think they equal the 5er/E etc now, I am sure the Equus will destroy the S/7 etc.
Maybe Hyundai can compete with Rolls/Bentley etc next :P
Regardless of price, placing Equus to play against Lexus LS and MB S-class is still suicidal. Lexus prevailed in the past with LS because it covered the weakness of LS (prestige, technology) with incredible customer service and reliability. Thing is, customers aren't as lenient as they used to be, they demand more and more, as shown by Infiniti's failure to do the same with Q despite the red carpet service, Or VW with Phaeton. Even if the same formula still works, Hyundai's customer service is still nowhere near Lexus'.
Fighting in the $50k range is a different story. Customers are still demanding and value means little still, but it's much easier for Hyundai to meet the class' standards. Hyundai is on the right track, but needs to be patient. It's already improving faster than any japanese company did. Hell, it's already improving faster than ANY other automaker.
Could the same thing be happening in the car business? The U.S car biz is certainly on the ropes thanks to Japan and Europe. And these two are now looking nervously over their shoulders at Korea, China, and India. If you want to stay on top today it will take a lot more than prestige and past greatness.... and that is good for all of us who love cars.
If Japan hadn't showed up GM and Chrysler would be fat and happy today and we would all be driving $50,000. Dodge Neons and Chevy Chevetes while dreaming about a $100,000. Cadillac with beautiful blue velour interior and a one year or 12,000 mile warranty.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I personally don't see the Equus as an Azera on steriods but styling is subjective.
By the way, the arrogant automaker I posted earlier was VW. I wasn't talking about other Euro luxury models.
We've all seen BMW Isettas, and look where they are today. Humble origins do not exclude an upscale march.
I do think it will be harder to do today, though, only because the Isetta existed at a time when other cars were not so good. The competition wasn't nearly what it is today.