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Comments
The greenhouse on the Equus images I have seen is directly related to the Azera - one of the blandest cars on the market. This needs to change.
VW was arrogant for the Phaeton, but people continue to snap most of their products up, even with the appalling reliability record. That arrogance seems to have faded into history already.
Of course the Coupe was marginally cheaper ($30k vs. $32k vs. $38k) but is this really the arena that Hyundai wants to compete in if 'Genesis' is supposed to become a 'luxury ' brand?
VW overall has not really done well here in the US in the last decade or so, let alone a product like the Phaeton, which failed miserably (not on the product side but on VW's strategy marketing the car).
By the way, didn't a few of the posters here argued the Genesis would fail just like the Phaeton... :P
This is a very very good first effort for Hyundai in the RWD sports car class. No, it's not class leading but it's a darn good and exciting coupe. Both the Z and the GT are excellent coupes as well, but it was expected the Z would be faster, given its less weight and two seats less, and the Mustang GT as well, with the amount of torque from its V8 engine.
As automakers such as Toyota and Honda moves into an all-mundane lineup, thank Hyundai and the remaining few continue to cater to the enthusiast crowd.
Hyundai has on its hand an affordable RWD sports coupe (and much anticipated upcoming R Spec), as well as the only coupe in the class with a turbo engine (much the likes of the tuner crowd)
Kudos to Hyundai!!
VW seems to be selling just about everything it makes. I don't see the market rejecting anything en masse...maybe the rebadged minivans.
I think the step up from a Passat to a Phaeton was much larger than a Sonata or Azera to a Genesis. And although the Genesis seems to be a fine car...are there waiting lists or anything like that for them?
The US market has not been very kind to VW in terms of high priced product (ie. Passat W8, Phaeton). Isn't that what we are talking about here - a non-luxury marque with high priced product? On the other hand, it seems the US market has accepted the Genesis reasonably well so far. Even the mainstream products of VW in the US, the generaly public has not been receptive because they do not view VW as a nameplate higher than other competing brands such as Hyundai, Toyota, Honda, despite the higher prices on the sticker of VW products.
"I think the step up from a Passat to a Phaeton was much larger than a Sonata or Azera to a Genesis."
Hence Hyundai's model matrix makes sense, unlike VW's approach.
VW has erred in the higher end, especially when placing a weird engine in an otherwise normal car. But overall, the brand is not failing. A loaded CC approaches the prices of a highline Genesis, and those don't seem to be drawing any ire.
Hyundai's incremental approach is more reasonable than VWs old big jump plan, yeah. But if the increments are too small, models appear to be surplus.
Even you can't deny that has worked.
If I am not mistaken, a loaded CC is actually priced higher than a loaded V8 Genesis. Much like the Genesis and most other vehicles, much of the CC sales come from its 4 cyclinder sales, and espeically with a lease of $299/month (for comparison, the Genesis has a special lease of $399/month - irony :P ), thus very little stir, if any, so far.
I guess this must be the official 'H' boy attitude because it sure isn't what the mags are saying about it. Something not even competitive with the antiquated Mustang - wow - talk about unbridled excitement! Thanks anyway, but I'd rather spend a few extra dollars on that Z, or even better, on the '10 Camaro.
Genesis vs Camaro
This sporty coupe is direct and visceral, the first Korean car to get our blood pumping. It’s a little rough around the edges, but Hyundai has a habit of catching up. Fast.
Seems like they like it a little better than you seem to.
More importantly, have you driven the Genesis Coupe yet?
The thing is going to need a heavy renovation in the styling department to actually have a chance. Maybe it can ape the fakey BMW-esque C-pillar kink of the Genesis and actually develop a styling theme for the brand.
And cars in the class are beauty queens? People buy cars for more than just styling. Styling also happen to be quite subjective.
On the other hand, Equus/Azera comparo - you are still the first person I've come across to bring up these two...
Look at the greenhouse and the rear quarters. One is just a bigger version of the other.
I am sure I am the first person you have encountered who would say that....swoopy H fanboys don't like to question the company of devotion :P
OK, we know how you feel based on your reference to the 5/09 MT comparo, what are your thoughts on the 6/09 Car and Driver test I referenced a few posts back? Inquiring minds want to know.
I am sure Genesis owners have to get a firehose to repel the throngs who approach them wondering what that amazing looking car could be, and what they would have to do to buy one today!
If you are so convinced the Equus is just a larger Azera based on some photos, then have it your way...
I was not surprised to see the results when compared to the Mustang GT and 370Z. Again, as I stated earlier, you are comparing it to a two seater and a car with a V8 punching out a ton of torque. All of these cars are very good entrants.
IL and PM both have compared the Genesis Coupe to the G37, and I invite you to read those. Also, tenpin288 posted the GC vs. Camaro. There are also a ton of Genesis stand-alone review, and those are just some examples that support the point the Genesis is a very solid first effort (which somehow you disagreed with such point and claimed fanboism :sick: )
There were crowds checking it out, even though it was closed up. There is definite interest and curiosity for it, at least.
I think the naming of the new coupe is rather curious (perhaps even a mistake?), but it will help bring new buyers to Hyundai, the same way the Integra helped Acura in the early days.
Integra wasn't a luxury car, but it still worked.
Here's a history of Hyundai's approach:
1980s: attract customers based on price alone
1990s: focus on value and start building competent cars, warranty to grab attention
2000s: stretch the value concept to upscale price segments and sport compacts
Acquiring Kia was key because they can occupy Hyundai's old slot from the 90s.
I'm not sure I agree. I think Equus-Genesis is more like a move from Lexus ES to GS.
VW Paheton and Passat W8 may be failures. The former due to the company getting arrogant and overestimate it's image, and the latter for putting a ridiculous engine that's weird, problematic, and tough to fix. Instead of looking at Passat, how about using Touareg for comparison instead? A success.
I was just using the S/E class as an example - one is higher than the other in the model matrix. I was not referring to the four cars are are on equal grounds, if you were interpreting as such.
I have, back to back, and I'm really satisfied. It's placed in the right class, fighting with the right cards.
I admit the looks can still improve, but the handling and interior are awesome. Considering the price, the only decent contenders are Camaro and Mustang ( the only others are Altima, Accord and Camry coupe = bleak). Mustang v6 = trash IMO. So far I agree with C&D only Camaro can actually beat gen coupe.
If Hyundai place Gen coupe to fight Nissan Z or Mazda RX8, that's a different story and I'd be harsher with my comments.
Including me - believe or not. The Genesis coupe appears to be perfectly fine rice rocket - but in itself it is not as a remarkable achievement as the sedan is and for what it actually is (and priced as it is) it will do nothing to help Hyundai's efforts to make Genesis a 'luxury' brand. If this is what Hyundai is trying to do ( and I'm not so sure they are) then the Coupe ought to be a Hyundai NOT A GENESIS. The Equus OTH, a different story.
If you look at C/D's evaluation, you'll notice that the only thing the Camaro "beat" the Genesis coupe on is "Gotta have it", which is a totally subjective (and I think ridiculous) criterion. If the editors had given the Camaro one less point there and the Genesis one more point, the Genesis would have won the comparo. The Genesis beat out the Camaro in the scoring categories related to the actual features and performance of the cars themselves.
C/D also understated the price of the Camaro on the cover of the mag by several thousand dollars. Typo? I wonder...
These two things lead me to believe that C/D had a particular car in mind for the winner of the comparo before it began. :P
Interestingly my dealer is trying to solve my latest problem even though Hyundai Corp. is resisting it.
Very few dealers of any kind provide loaners unless it takes overnight. My dealer did provide me with a rental when the computer died while trying to reprogram it. Had to leave it overnight for it to "reset." Had to insist though to get it.
I did see many dozens of people "lined up" to see the Genesis sedan and coupe at my local auto show in March. Also noticed several folks oohing and aahing over a silver Genesis sedan parked, strategically, right next to the registration counter for a $5000-off--any-new-car giveaway. Not bad for a car that has been on the market for less than a year. The Camaro nameplate has been out there for over four decades--it should have built a following by now.
I somewhat agree, the gotta have it factor affects me as well, guilty as charged
I never drove the Camaro, only sat in one and I thought the materials are slightly better but the ergonomics are blah... plus the paintjob seemed particularly thin and frail...
Plus considering the price gap, and the fact that I've signed a petition that says "No more GM and Chrysler cars until bailout is retruned", I'll sign for the Gen coupe if I have to choose :shades:
very astute observation :confuse: - sure the Camaro for 20 years (or more) was something less than desireable - as most cars of that time were. It does not, however, change the fact that it still is a car with a favorable legacy. You avoid my point, of course, name any Hyundai vehicle ever produced that has any sort of legacy (that is favorable
Any Hyundai for $5k off at an auto show? Even an Accent? No wonder that their sales aren't hurting as bad as most the others, and the resale values tend to be so rotten - they continue to BUY all the business they can.
As it relates to the topic of this particular forum, if Hyundai is ever to find a place as any kind of luxury mfgr., that insane discounting will have to slow down - true luxury cars sell because of content, quality, and perceived value - not because of how cheap they ultimately become! The Hyundai customer may never be able to understand that.
As for favorable legacy... how long does that have to be? Hyundai has only been in the U.S. since 1986. The Elantra and Santa Fe, for two, have a solid legacy since late 2000. Not long compared to brands like Chevy that have been around forever, but a start.
I'm about 80% accurate in picking the finishing order in any C&D comparo before I read it. They are *very* predictable. Start by putting BMW in first place if it's a luxury comparo or Honda in 1st if it's in the economy class.
Plus, you may as well replace "Gotta Have It" with "Flavor of the Month". The Camaro is hot now, just like the Mustang was hot when it was updated...for a year or so. Then you need special editions to maintain interest (Bullitt, GT350, GT500). Interest in those never lasts long.
the Coupe ought to be a Hyundai
Probably so, ditch the Genesis name.
I can see folks lined up to order and/or get a look at the new Camaro but not so with any Hyundai product
At the car show there were plenty of people gawking at the Equus. backy noticed the same thing.
"I'm having a hard time finding things that are wrong with it, really."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sz3L6wA1bY&feature=channel
At the end he says he'd buy it no matter whether it was called an Oldsmobile or a Yugo.
Pretty humorous. I like that he admitted his bias against it yet could find nothing wrong.
C/D also understated the price of the Camaro on the cover of the mag by several thousand dollars. Typo? I wonder...
These two things lead me to believe that C/D had a particular car in mind for the winner of the comparo before it began. :P
Agreed. Also, I thought it was strange C/D only scored a 5 for the Genesis on the ride category, and a 9 for the Camaro. Really? That was a little fishy, I thought.
At the end of the day, the overall score was 203 Camaro and 202 for the Genesis, maybe a coincidence, maybe not...
That was one part of the review that made sense to me. They did note the firm ride of the Genesis coupe compared to that of the Camaro.
Overall, there were parts of the review that begged for questions; while others hit the points on the head. Bottom line, two excellent sport coupes each with their own merits and drawbacks - Camaro has the got-to-have-it edge (per C/D); the Genesis Coupe maintains as a more fun-to-drive car
van
I too prefer larger windows over the tank-like slits that have come into fashion.
van
If that Chrysler product is a Dodge Magnum, then YES!! The Magnum windows may look short from the outside, but from the inside for over four years they have worked just fine!
The low windshield is really nice when traveling West near sundown. Much better than sitting in some of those goldfish bowels out there!!
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