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Comments
I see a lot more S-class Mercedes than I do Genesis. Being a Genesis owner I do look for them.
A quick example of how a lux buyer thinks with this quick little story: The owner of the company I work for raved about my new Genesis. He thought it was a new Infiniti or something along those lines. I knew he was in the market for a new car so, I jokingly said go grab a Genesis and save some money. Did he? Of course not....a 7 series Bimmer. I complimented him on his car and never asked why.... but I am sure he didn't want to go from a Mercedes SL to a Hyundai. No matter how nice it is.
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I have nothing against the car, but I still like some sport with my luxury, and I don't think they are tuned for that yet :shades:
That is my biggest complaint with the car. The suspension is too much of a compromise. Not enough plushness in ride (think Avalon, ES350 etc) and OTOH not enough firmness to call it a sports sedan. They really should tweak the suspension for a soft compliant ride (my choice) and offer an all out sports suspension for the BMW/Infiniti crowd.
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My E55 has a ridiculously harsh ride for something of its size - but it sure handles well, and it's smooth as glass on the highway. I'm still liking this kind of setup, although in time I know I will want something softer.
Originally they were supposed to create a division called Amati, IIRC, but it never materialized.
The Nano gets all the headlines but Tata also makes big SUVs, about the size of a Trooper or the old Montero.
The kind of truck people traded in during the Cash for Clunkers program.
For whatever reason whoever does the design work for Acura apparently lost their minds starting in 2005. Now they have gone all out with "the beak" and quasi futuristic styling that just looks horrible. Most people run screaming from the Acura dealers when they see one.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Ah, but in order to be comfortable spending the extra money on a "real" luxury car, as you say, I would have to be convinced that the difference in the cars was worth the extra money, to me. That was clearly the case between the 1988 Excel and 1988 Civic LX. Today, Hyundai has narrowed the gap with the J3 et. al. so much that it would not be worth it, to me, to pay the "brand" premium for something else compared to the Genesis, if that is the kind of car I was looking to buy. And the long warranty would be just gravy.
Hogwash. The Elantra has a cruise control and ECU just like the Lexus does (in fact, for several years Lexus used the exact same cruise control switch on the steering column as did the Elantra). Are you saying Lexus should be excused for building a car that is less reliable in those respects than a Korean economy car?
Never? That is a REAL long time. You know the, "I think, therefore I am" saying? How about, "They sell, therefore it is."?
It's surprising that you have a real long memory regarding Korean cars from 15-20 years ago but then talk about the Chinese coming in and cleaning up on Hyundai. We know that you, for one, would never buy a Chinese car because you remember so well what happened when Hyundai entered the US market 23 years ago, and you haven't forgiven them for that. So you would never buy a car in a similar situation, right? And if you believe many people are like you and haven't forgiven Hyundai for their actions of 20 years ago, then the Chinese automakers are doomed to fail in the US.
Unless... not that many people have such a long memory...
Drive one and find some substance. That's a huge reason why Lexus is invisible in Europe.
Customer service is often subjective, and some people don't care if their butts aren't kissed...others get enraged if they don't get the red carpet treatment.
Took my Hyundai into my local dealer for its 45k service on Monday. I asked them to explain what services are included in their 45k service (wary of dealers who tack on unneeded services). The writer went through their list, which included tire rotation and a "throttle body service." I explained that the tires are rotated by the tire shop where I got them, and he said, "OK, I can take $20 off then." I asked him to explain what the "throttle body service" is, because I've heard it's not only not needed, but could damage the car. He said, no, it's a light cleaning after they take the air filter off, not a full cleaning like I was talking about. The price wasn't bad (they also took off $25 for the oil change because I have free oil changes for life from them), so I said go ahead. He asked me if I wanted to wait, as it would take only an hour. I replied that I had to get home, so he summoned a gopher who took me home in a new Santa Fe GLS (pretty nice ride). He asked me if I needed a ride back, and I said no. Later that day I picked up the car. There was an error on the bill (forgot to take off the $20 for rotation) which was quickly adjusted. I also noticed they repaired a leaking hose clamp "under warranty" (so it is apparently covered under the powertrain warranty), and even re-installed a tail lamp bulb that my son had installed incorrectly a couple weeks ago--for free. The car was ready on time. It was washed. Everything done as promised, and then some. Everyone was pleasant and professional.
Now, this dealership's service area is nothing to write home about. It's clean, but cramped, and the waiting area (which I didn't use) is small and undergoing some kind of remodeling because I didn't see the HD TV they used to have in there. No cappuccino. The techs were wearing uniforms but not lab coats. I didn't see any red carpets.
But it was an excellent service experience. I wouldn't mind being treated that way even if I took a Genesis in there instead of an Elantra.
Interestingly I went into the MB dealership last week and while talking to the salesman had a deja vu feeling. Then I realized, it was the same show room where I purchased my 1987 Mazda RX-7 convertible. Service area and waiting room there were exactly the same, though new furniture, TV, etc.
In 87, it was a Mazda, MB dealership in a two year old building, but it went belly up. Service manager took on Mazda and moved down the street and after some years, new MB owner came in and took over the building.
As for technology, it moves up lot quicker than in the past. Go look at where your home electronics come from, appliances, etc., etc. Even high quality furniture is being made in China now and imported to US with old firm US names on it.
How many US, Japanese, European corporations are beating at the doors to get into China and build plants?
It's easy when the formula is given to you on a silver platter. That's what non-savvy car owners fail to understand.
I patronize a local indy shop, so it has even fewer niceties...but that's kind of the point for me.
Styling was fine in 2005, it's just that the cheaper TL was bigger and cheaper, sportier too. Without a V8 the RL just doesn't have the prestige needed to command more money than a TL.
Lately it did get the awful beak and now the styling alone would keep me away.
A used 05 RL may actually be a good used car value, though, especially if you like AWD.
Heavens, Buffy! Let's take our business some place else!
only it is one of the reasons why Hyundai can not be a luxury brand that you or I will live long enough to see.... :P
I have no problem 'forgiving' Hyundai for Excels, Scoupes and the like - and it is quite natural that any Company would improve its products to survive in the marketplace.
That, however, is not what we are talking about here - it 's more like can Hyundai given that they still operate in the lower ends of the auto business and do have that rather unfortunate rep ever be considered a 'luxury' manufacturer?
IMO, of course, the answer to that is plainly no - at least not the way they are currently trying to do it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
given that they still operate in the lower ends of the auto business
That is slowly changing.
A few years ago, my next door neighbor's identical twins graduated from college, and he gave each of them a brand new Elantra.
Out of curiosity, I went on-line to the local no-haggle dealer (Fitzmall - the license plate frames show he bought them there) and saw the prices for the Elantra started at $10,999, freight included. This is after discounts and rebates.
Bargain, two graduation gifts, $22 grand for both.
I went to look now, though, at the same dealer, mind you, and the cheapest 2010 Elantra today is priced at $15,899.
That's quite a change. The same gifts would set my neighbor back $10 grand more today. They're in a whole different price class now.
The Elantra Tourings actually cost more. Only the Accent falls in the econobox range now.
Pricing falls more or less like this:
Accent: $12-14k
Elantra: $16-18k
Elantra Touring: $16-19k
Sonata: $18-25k
Tucson: $19-20k
Santa Fe: $20-28k
Gen Coupe: $24-30k (one oddball at $17.8k, may be a typo, i.e. $27.8k?)
Azera: $27-29k
Veracruz: $29-34k
Genesis: $32-39k
None of those stands out as being particularly cheap.
In a day and age where Aveo and Versa both start under $10 grand, and that's full MSRP, even the Accent is no longer at the bottom end.
The same dealer has a Nissan franchise and Nissans are as cheap or cheaper pretty much across the board.
We'll see if these prices hold up in the long term, but the days of two-for-one bargain pricing is gone for now.
Lets just weld shut the front hood on a sample of HELC German cars as well as those from the US, Japan and the UK. Now, try to drive each of them 100,000 without opening the hood for any reason. Does anyone really think that an 7 Class or an S Series would make it?
I wouldn't bet on any of them making it 100K without an oil change or transmission service - probably living on luck if that mark is reached.
BYD F3 = previous generation Corolla copy.
Dozens, except perhaps GM, which is actually looking for a way to produce cars in US then ship them to China (obviously to keep jobs open at home). Only to get shot down by the chinese government who said that all manufacturers doing business in China must build a plant and produce there. I heard they're gonna try again with WTO as backup. :P
Interior reminds me of Lexus models, especially those vertical vents.
They have an engine partnership with Mitsubishi and Chrysler, right? They should work out a deal with Infiniti sound and get the MyGig and HD-based nav from the Grand Caravan.
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12d514/12952#MSG12952
Funny thing is that in another thread we were talking about how other manufacturers are cutting costs, and new mirrors don't even fold at all on the new Camry hybrid, Altima, and Legacy.
Backup cam had trajectory lines, also nice. Some do, but most still don't.
Not anymore--not with Chrysler, anyway. Chrysler just bailed out of the GEMA partnership, and bought the rights to the Michgan factory, ostensibly to use it to build Fiat-designed engines as well as the GEMA engines.
I'd doubt it. Sonatas in the ROK have folding mirrors, but not here because there's no need to put the cars on a ship since they're built in Alabama. But I am holding out hope that the new Sonata will get folding mirrors in the US. Fewer mid-sizers have these and they come in real handy in tight parking spaces.
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2009/09/2011-hyundai-sonata-officially-revealed.htm- - - l
Hyundai has formally stated that "fluidic sculpture" will be the theme throughout the lineup. This is proven in the heavily disguised upcoming Elantra as well (you can see the pictures here on Edmunds.com).
Now, Kia, if you recall, is also adopting a consistent "design lineage" for the entire future Kia lineup, headed by Peter Schreyer (new Beetle and Audi TT). In other words, akin to how a BMW 1-series is clearly the little brother of the 3-series, so each Kia will give clues that it is related to and is of one model lineage.
I wonder: will Hyundai incorporate this fluidic sculpture theme in the Genesis line? If no, then the delineation between Hyundais and Genesises, the setting apart of the Genesis as a brand in the minds of the car-buying public, has officially begun - Hyundai fluidic, Genesis more angular and classic.
The Elantra could use a styling renovation too. Somehow the current one seems odd looking to me, the greenhouse reminds me of an egg.
Maybe weird grilles will become a H hallmark too :shades:
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"Today IS a good day to drive... a Genesis!!"
I agree.... I may be a bit biased though! :shades:
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Check out the creases on the side, very Elantra-like. The C-pillar draws from the Azera. The front end is way overdone and doesn't match the conservative rear end at all. It's like it was styled by two different people who never once met.
The Sonata is more consistent front to rear. The sharp crease on the hood echoes the one in the profile view. The A-pillar and C-pillar show a symmetry. That grille is nicer and has a family resemblance to the Genesis.
[Edit: wrong pic removed]
The actual Sonata has a lot of detail differences from that photochop version:
I think odd grilles might become a Hyundai theme.
I like the front grille detail, matching up with the creases on the hood. Interesting effect.
Also neat is the glass roof.
The two-tone steerig wheel is a bit busy, and I prefer 3 spokes over the 4 it has.
There's a lot of wheel gap on that white one but it may be up on jack stands, I can't quite tell.
I see about 30 buttons on that center console. They should have just used a touch screen instead of that knob.
Tiptronic shifter is down on the shift knob rather than paddle shifters. Probably OK for this target demographic, though.
Like the perforated leather on the seats. Plus the doors match.
Don't like the dual rings around the speedo and tach. Chrome on the housing, painted fake pluminum at the tips of the needles. Thing is, the colors mismatch. Overdone.
Legroom looks good but those photos can be massively deceiving. The interior shot of the Kia Rondo makes it look 3 times as big as it really is.