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Comments
Some folks don't buy nice cars to grin and ride around the hood showing off their fancy car. Some owners value quality and reliability more than a little badge stuck on the hood.
Wait, Cadillac?
Because it's NOT a POS car. Having owned a number of domestic and European cars since 1968, I assure you a Hyundai will be more reliable, and have fewer trips to the dealer for problems, than the vast majority of high-end European cars. This is based on my own personal experience, and not unfounded conjecture.
The sales and service experience is worth at least as much as the badge, especially for the new kid on the block.
because you don't know better?
I can't speak to marketing, but one design change I would have made would have been to offer optional AWD. With it, the Genesis would have stolen many sales from the Infiniti M, which is probably the Japanese luxury sedan that most closely resembles the Genesis. Without it, the Gen has been a sales flop (or pretty close to it) here in the Northeast, where premium car buyers have been conditioned over the past decade to see AWD on the option sheet.
That raises an interesting marketing question: is there something that Hyundai can do to remedy the situation until it can bring an AWD variant to market? Suppose Hyundai were to offer free winter tires (& no-cost seasonal tire changeovers) to all snowbelt Genesis buyers? Would that pump up sales?
Well, we know this much about you: you've never owned a Cadillac. If you had, you'd know how to spell the car's name.
I drove RWD cars in Minnesnowta for the first 10 years I had a license. More recently, I owned a 328Ci, which had ABS and traction control and ESC. None of the other RWD cars had traction control or even ABS. I coped just fine. I drove a Genesis 3.8 on a torture track that included a slick plastic tarp wetted down with soapy water. It handled that mess just fine, with its standard tires.
In other words, I think the need for AWD for most drivers is overstated, especially with today's cars with ABS/traction/ESC. Maybe if I lived in the mountains near Denver, I'd get an AWD vehicle--or at least have a set of winter tires. But for in-town driving in most of the country, I think AWD is a "nice to have" vs. a necessity.
You're preaching to the choir. I happen to agree with you. But you & I are in a minority. Most premium car buyers in the snowbelt are now convinced, rightly or wrongly, that AWD is absolutely indispensable. Any manufacturer planning to launch a new offering in this segment of the market must factor in this attitude. Otherwise, the car will sell poorly. You can count on that.
In my area (metro NYC), we don't get much snow, & AWD is just so much extra, useless weight 350 days of the year. And yet if you stand for a day on a corner of my affluent, import-friendly town, you will see almost no premium RWD sedans. Almost all of the C, E & S-class Mercedes Benzes will be the "4-matic" versions, just as 95 percent of the M (the Gen's closest competitor) & G Infinitis will be the "x" AWD variants.
(You'll have to stand on that corner for several days before you see even one Genesis. I've seen no more than 4 or 5 since Hyundai introduced it.)
You can't fight that sentiment. You shouldn't even try, even if you're right. (And I believe that you are.)
A veteran Hyundai salesman even told me, without prompting, that when a prospective buyer says that he (the customer) is cross-shopping the Gen against the Infiniti M, he (the salesman) knows that he won't make the sale. This sales pro wonders out loud how Hyundai could have been so short-sighted as to introduce an RWD-only vehicle into the country's #2 (after SoCal) market.
I wonder the same thing. The Genesis may be a great success down South, but it's a flop around here.
- Confirmed next-gen Genesis platform will have AWD option
This is from my post back at message #4307. Check it out for more info Hyundai's plans for the Genesis and even the Azera!
I see the Infiniti M as the Gen's closest competitor & a car from which the Gen can & should poach sales. The current generation M has had AWD since its introduction almost 5 years ago (as a 2006 model). The next generation M will hit Infiniti showrooms this spring.
I could be wrong about this, but I think that Hyundai could have purchased an off-the-shelf AWD system for the current generation Genesis. If this is true, why didn't Hyundai do this?
You are simply not a credible competitor in the upscale sedan market in the colder parts of the country if you don't offer AWD. I can't begin to guess how many Genesis sales Hyundai lost by not acting on this.
Keep in mind that I like the Genesis. I would give it serious consideration if I were in the market for a new car (I won't be for at least another year) & that I wouldn't let the absence of AWD keep me from buying it. But I'm in a minority in my neck of the woods.
Looks like that's been done.
2008 M Sales: 15,618
2009 M Sales: 8,501
2008 Genesis Sales: 6,167
2009 Genesis Sales: 21,889
For December 2009 (i.e., the start of winter), M sales were 808 and Genesis 2,354. If lack of AWD is hurting Genesis sales vs. the M, the sales figures don't reflect that.
(Note that the Genesis figures include the coupe.)
I'll bet they would if they were broken down by region.
I'm quite sure that the Genesis has been a Sunbelt success, & that it has hurt the M in markets where AWD availability doesn't matter. We saw more Gens during a 4-day Florida trip earlier this year than we've seen in the Northeast since Hyundai introduced the car.
But when I look around & count 50 Infiniti Ms - 48 of which are AWD - for every Genesis, I have to wonder how many more cars Hyundai would have sold if it had brought the right feature set to market. And I'm not in the sticks - I'm 30 miles from midtown Manhattan in one of the most affluent suburbs in the U.S.
Again, I'm not knocking the car, which I happen to like. I blame Hyundai's marketing people for apparently not understanding that the U.S. isn't one market - it's a whole bunch of markets, each of which has to be understood separately. Otherwise, they would have grasped the painfully obvious: you can't sell sedans at this price point in the Northeastern U.S. in any meaningful numbers without an AWD option.
You can be sure that people here would line up in front of Hyundai dealers for a competitively priced AWD alternative to BMW, Mercedes & Lexus. I just can't figure out why Hyundai didn't see that. It's really too bad.
Do you think part of that is that the M has been available a lot longer than the Genesis?
Also, how do you know that the reason you don't see more Genesis sedans in "one of the most affluent suburbs in the U.S." is because of brand snobbery rather than lack of AWD? Maybe folks in the South and Midwest are a little more down-to-earth on their vehicle purchases than the folks in your affluent suburb. I'll bet if you asked them, "If Hyundai offered an AWD luxury sedan, would you seriously consider buying one?", the vast majority would say, "No way!" Hyundai has come a long way, but I doubt there's many members of the Westchester Country Club who would want to be seen driving up to the valet in their Hyundai.
Perhaps, but that cuts both ways. Because the M has been out since the spring of 2005, it's no longer fresh & new, so that prospective buyers should be that much more receptive. Someone who leased an '06 M for 36 months would have been a hot prospect for an AWD Genesis when his lease ran out, given that the '09 M wasn't all that different from what he had been driving for 3 years.
Also, how do you know that the reason you don't see more Genesis sedans in "one of the most affluent suburbs in the U.S." is because of brand snobbery rather than lack of AWD?
Good point. But a nasty recession works against that attitude & in favor of a value-priced newcomer - if the newcomer is properly equipped for that particular market. People aren't as well off as they were 3 or 4 years ago, & many of them are looking for less expensive alternatives. If I can save a lot of money by replacing an E-class MB with a Genesis & still be satisfied with the driving experience, I'd be a fool not to at least think about it. But since 90+% of the Es around here are 4-matics, the Gen had better come with AWD.
In short, I do think that not offering AWD on the Genesis was a mistake, & not a trivial one. But I also think that Hyundai is better than most big companies at learning from its mistakes, so I'm expecting great things from the next generation Genesis.
If what John K is correct we may see the original Genesis, the coupe, Genesis SUV, and smaller Genesis and Equus. Possibly 5 cars in 3-4 years under the Genesis nameplate.
Are you referring to the 1st generation (pre-2006) M45? If you are, then I'd certainly agree with you.
Jeez, but that was an odd-looking car. Great motor, peculiar body.
I don't think that I've seen more than 3 of them.
Hyundai is a JOKE! no matter how much you try and put a spin on it. It will never be considered Luxury in anyone, but a diehard Posur's, mind. Eat it and weep.
http://money.cnn.com/video/fortune/2009/12/29/f_hyundai_success_story.fortune/
***Hyundai Smokes the Competition*** (article):
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/04/autos/hyundai_competition.fortune/index.htm
***Hyundai: The Toughest Car Company of Them All***
http://business.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20100107-190246.html
The tone of your message suggests you have a personal agenda if not anger as it relates to Hyundai.
Have you driven a recent Hyundai? Have you been actually reading what the major industry news has been saying about Hyundai? Have you been to a Hyundai factory?
I have and in addition, I currently own two of their recent products and find your post has little credibility.
Can you envision a major case of cognitive dissonance developing, leading perhaps to anger? I can.
This Hyundai luxury experiment is a failure so far, much less looking at increasing their luxury offerings, which would reach epic failure! :sick:
This is on top of all the other rookie marketing mistakes Hyundai is making after 25 years in The States!
The Genesis sedan sells 10-15k units annually. That should be a hint that Hyundai luxury isn'y going over well. But Hyundai ignores the market's sensibilities incredibly well! :P
They will release Equus, and it is a nice LS460-knockoff. If they are really lucky, if they do a really good job pushing it, it will sell 5k units it's first year, then drop to 3k annually
So let me get this str8.
They're going to sell less than 20k units of luxury offerings, out of their existing Hyundai dealers, and make dealers pay for special training of sales staff, service personnel, parts, and a very luxurious Velvet Rope :surprise: to let you know this is not a Hyundai Elantra or Accent.
This is a really EXPENSIVE HYUNDAI!
Will they break even, after all the advertising? I doubt it!
Not only is the set-up stupid, and cheap, but VW failed with the EXACT SAME PLAN 8 years ago!~
Ok, send in the clowns.
Rusty
and nobody will be there to tell him that or even tell him he owns one after he buys it - even if that is what he wants to hear. There can never be a Hyundai branded 'luxury car' much less one sold at a paltry $35k or so. Contradiction in terms.
I guess there could be a Genesis branded 'luxury car' but Hyundai seems intent on ignoring what has and has not worked in that regard for the last 25 years or so.
this indeed may be absolutely true - the problem is that not enough people feel that way. Opinion - most autobuyers think of Hyundai on the same plane as the D3 mfgrs. right now. It's not about quality or even value - its about perceptions and that unfortunate cross that Hyundai still bears. Its not that things haven't changed and changed relatively quickly, it's more to the point that most consumers simply don't know or accept it.
It is when the autobuyer walks into a Hyundai dealer and knowingly spends MORE (like he would at a Honda dealer, for example) That is when Hyundai has begun solving that perception issue, and probably also a better time to garner any acceptance amongst the lux brands albeit as some different brandname.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/01/04/auto...tune/index.htm
The cover of Fortune shows a mencing Equus with shark like grill on the attack with the Hyundai logo on the front bumper.
This article will change alot of peoples perception but of course there will be always a few to dismiss or be in :mad: denial
OK, then you admit that most buyers perceive that Hyundai is quite capable of producing luxury cars, since that is certainly true for some of the D3.
As for a Hyundai buyer paying more for a Hyundai than at a J3 dealer... check out the Sonata Prices Paid discussion starting in February, and see what buyers are paying for the 2011 Sonata. I guarantee you some will pay more than for a Camcord.
Meanwhile, the fact that Lexus and Infiniti vehicles are typically lower priced than comparable European models hasn't stopped Lexus and Infiniti from getting a "perception" issue. Why should the fact that the Genesis costs less in MSRP than most of its competitors cause a perception issue?
Equus isn't a very menacing looking car. It's going to need a restyle before it is competitive here. Does the Fortune image have that hilarious hood ornament?\\
I was fortunate to see the Equus in person last fall and was truly impressed. I'll never forget a lady was telling her husband why djd the dealership have a 7 series BMW in the middle of the Hyundai showroom. When the husband explain to her that it was the new Equus from Hyundai her mouth dropped as she was truly impressed by Hyundai's latest achiement.
Did the car you saw have the hood ornament?
My mother thought an Infiniti M was a Buick...so experiences may vary :shades:
This looks as much like a 7er as my left thumb:
More like a gigantic Azera with more trademark Asian huge headlight clusters. Very clean and inoffensive from the side...not so much from the front.
Demands respect? I think that's being generous
I will say had I seen one at the local dealer, I too would have stopped, just to see something not (yet) from this market.
Do you think they'd use a Lexus numeric designation like that?
I agree nothing like a 7. Actually, I think the side profile of the Equus is very similar to the new LaCrosse,
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart
No I don't.
Cadillac is quite capable of producing a luxury car, but Chevy and Buick aren't despite the fact that the cars themselves (eg Lucerne vs a DTS) may be quite similar. The Hyundai brand in this respect is very much like Chevy, and certainly does not share the same sort of lux perceptions (or prices) that Caddy ( or a Lexus/Infinti etc etc.) do, for example.
No, the fact that the Gen sedan is priced lower than what you think is the 'competition' doesn't necessarily exclude it from the lux fraternity, it is more a condition of the brandname - which is decidedly non luxury. Higher prices are only one (of several) conditions that a luxury car should meet.
Just as I have said countless times, Chevy, Toyota, Honda or any of the other mainstream brands can't be 'luxury' either - for the same reason. If you think that a Cadillac is the same thing as a Chevy, a Toyota the same thing as a Lexus, an Audi the same as a VW, an Infiniti the same as a Nissan, etc. etc. then I would suggest you won't understand the whole perception (and marketing) thing that makes a luxury car a luxury car.
I have to chuckle with the thought that slapping a "Genesis" badge on the Genesis sedan (which can be done for a few bucks, btw) will instantly and magically make it a luxury car, when it otherwise is not (according to you).
BTW, in some countries, a Toyota is the same thing as a Lexus.
Unfortunately most of America is "badge" conscious. Look at all the fancy $300 women's purses with the little "Cs" all over them or the $150 slippers they call "Ugg". Its just the way it is. I cannot tell you the amount of times that people (as a joke or maybe not) think I traded down by replacing my 06 Avalon with an '09 Genesis. All they have to hear is "Hyundai" To me is was a lateral move much like going from an Accord to an Altima.
2025 Ram 1500 Laramie 4x4 / 2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Icon I6L Golf Cart