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Houses cost too much!

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I bet you could get it really cheap now - if there's still access to it. I wonder what happens to the isolated houses when the lava cools - when this eruption ends, which could be a long time from now.
    gagrice said:


    Looking at your map, every place we stayed in Kapoho is gone. One contractor we visited every trip, built high on the hillside. His home is gone. This place I wanted to buy and could not swing it back in 2004 is still there. It is surrounded on 3 sides by lava from the 1960 eruption. So far it is safe. If the flow stops now he will still have a few neighbors.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Some will be easier to get access to than others. I would guess as of today there are at least 200 homes completely isolated with no access roads that are not under several feet of lava. If the handful of homes left in Kapoho survive, they can get in over the 1960 lava flow. It is pretty flat and used to get out to the ocean. The two parks and homes in the open between the major lava flows to the ocean could take months cutting through the lava. I am sure people will get in with 4x4 vehicles. After the lava cools, when it does.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Shiftright: Well, talking about California is like talking about Europe. There's Provence, there's Tuscany, and there's Bulgaria, so I think one's contentment or DIS depends a lot on which part of this enormous state one finds themselves.

    The entire state has horrible taxes for upper middle class workers and retirees. Four major issues caused me to look elsewhere, Taxes, Fires, Crime and no place left I could go out and shoot at targets. The Trump tax bill made it even worse. We paid $19k in property and income tax to the state. Only $10k would be a write-off. That does not include sales tax which was likely $3-4K more. I love many places in CA. They are all under the same tax laws and repressive regime. Of course having a better lifestyle, larger home for less than half the cost, was a big factor. Show me a 3300+ Sq ft home on half an acre right on the golf course for $330k in CA anywhere. Electricity at one quarter the cost, cheap water, was just icing on the cake. Not to mention watching the ducks on the golf course on our morning walks.




  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Shifty, Now I can vacation in California and you get to pay for the roads, bridges and welfare. Look forward to cruising up the CA/OR coast this Summer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    One issue I see is that there are not many upper middle class jobs in the distant settlements of NV - gotta be a work from home type, heavily pensioned retiree, inheritance elite, someone who owns a business servicing the local rich retirees, etc, or have a long commute to keep up that lifestyle. That's one big reason people move to high cost of living areas - job opportunities. Even with the high costs, they often end up ahead (and often have a better quality of life, too - people from flyover land seem to love the PNW even with its costs). CA still has net in-migration and many best and brightest types still flock there. It has problems, but it isn't exactly a lost cause.



  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    CA and the west coast has a perhaps bit different take on life sometimes. High tax is often associated with being bad in the US, but Scandinavian countries have some of the happiest and most satisfied residents. Not advocating one way or the other, just pointing out that there is seldom one absolutely right answer to anything. People just need to make choices based on what works for them personally. I've lived in various locations and none were heads and shoulders over others. I just learned to roll with the good and bad aspects of each. The one lesson I learned is that the grass is always greener elsewhere until you move there ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited June 2018
    Indeed, no place is perfect. High cost areas have drawbacks (Seattle, LA/SF, New England, etc), and their low cost counterparts in Texas and the south or midwest also have plenty of issues.

    Taxes are fine if you get what you pay for. I'd argue many Americans don't, and by that I don't mean the coddled top few. One can argue the quality of life in many higher tax places of the world exceeds that of low tax areas here. HDIs support this.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think there is an irony that the rich often complain about taxes, but are the biggest recipients of their benefits. The middle class is lucky if they get some crumbs.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2018
    gagrice said:

    Shiftright: Well, talking about California is like talking about Europe. There's Provence, there's Tuscany, and there's Bulgaria, so I think one's contentment or DIS depends a lot on which part of this enormous state one finds themselves.

    The entire state has horrible taxes for upper middle class workers and retirees. Four major issues caused me to look elsewhere, Taxes, Fires, Crime and no place left I could go out and shoot at targets. The Trump tax bill made it even worse. We paid $19k in property and income tax to the state. Only $10k would be a write-off. That does not include sales tax which was likely $3-4K more. I love many places in CA. They are all under the same tax laws and repressive regime. Of course having a better lifestyle, larger home for less than half the cost, was a big factor. Show me a 3300+ Sq ft home on half an acre right on the golf course for $330k in CA anywhere. Electricity at one quarter the cost, cheap water, was just icing on the cake. Not to mention watching the ducks on the golf course on our morning walks.




    What? They don't have fires and crime in NV? Good luck with that!

    PS: California has more ducks than NV I bet.

    As for taxes, my attitude has always been--I'm fine with taxes as long as I feel I'm getting something for them. If I see bike paths, and park benches, and filled-in potholes and cops on patrol and the fire truck or EMTs show up in a jiffy, and services for old folks--you know, the amenities that make life pleasant and safe--then tax me!

    "Every American wants paradise but few want to pay for it"    .

    Sure, there are parts of California where I'd rather blow my brains out than live there. Same is true in NV or just about anywhere.

    Some people have no choice as to where they live. If you have a choice, you are a fortunate person.

    I don't think most people realize that California is actually a perfect microcosm of the American Experiment. Whatever thing, event, politics, scenery, brilliance, atrocity, or type of person you can point to in America, you will find in CA.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    One issue I see is that there are not many upper middle class jobs in the distant settlements of NV - gotta be a work from home type, heavily pensioned retiree, inheritance elite, someone who owns a business servicing the local rich retirees, etc, or have a long commute to keep up that lifestyle. That's one big reason people move to high cost of living areas - job opportunities. Even with the high costs, they often end up ahead (and often have a better quality of life, too - people from flyover land seem to love the PNW even with its costs). CA still has net in-migration and many best and brightest types still flock there. It has problems, but it isn't exactly a lost cause.

    Actually there are a lot of high tech engineering jobs. My next door neighbor says they cannot get enough people. He gets on a bus here in Pahrump 4 days a week for a 2 hour ride up into the never never land of NV. Dept of defense has installations all over. The beauty of retiring here is the COL is half or less of CA, OR or WA. Provided you are not addicted to gambling. Think of the Summer Heat like you do the rainy season in the PNW. Both keep you indoors. Though we go out for our walk around the golf course just as the sun is coming up. Pleasant 68 degrees this morning. Warmish 97 outside right now, with 14% humidity. Cools off enough to open all the windows in the morning and let the fresh air do its thing. Not like Hawaii where it is nice all the time. But our home is not likely to get covered by lava either. Or burned by fire or flooded or hurricane damaged. No place is perfect.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Shiftright:
    What? They don't have fires and crime in NV? Good luck with that!
    As for taxes, my attitude has always been--I'm fine with taxes as long as I feel I'm getting something for them. If I see bike paths, and park benches, and filled-in potholes and cops on patrol and the fire truck or EMTs show up in a jiffy, and services for old folks--you know, the amenities that make life pleasant and safe--then tax me!


    Kitchen fires maybe, no wild fires. Very low crime in Pahrump. Las Vegas is just far enough away to keep out the riff raff. You must live in a part of CA I have never visited. I NEVER felt I got my moneys worth out of the taxes I paid in CA. How about 3 calls to complain about a party half mile away with music so loud it shook the house. Finally about midnight the lazy [non-permissible content removed] sheriff goes and tells them to turn down the music. Cities with homeless camped everywhere, defecating on the sidewalks spreading Hepatitis. Is there any city in CA that is safe for a woman to walk at night alone? Services for old folks that are not wealthy in CA is a real joke. Have you checked out the nursing home costs in your part of CA. If they are anything like San Diego, you better have a bundle saved. $10,000 a month is not the best care by far. Forget decent care if you are on SS and Medicare only. Many states treat their elderly better than CA. One of many reasons for older people to get out while you still can.

    "Every American wants paradise but few want to pay for it".

    My Hawaii paradise is now under several feet of Lava. My ocean front dream home under the lava is about a mile from the water. Glad we got to spend a month there last year before it was destroyed. Happy with our choice for retirement paradise.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1260-Eldorado-Way-Pahrump-NV-8-48/65315957_zpid/?fullpage=true&view=public
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    If so many positions are unfilled, maybe there's a reason. Pay, working conditions, living conditions, etc. Like you say, no place is perfect, but people tend to vote with their feet. I suppose under the current supposed small government regime, praetorian sector stuff should be relatively safe.

    I think I'd have a big solar installation if I was there, I'd need the AC on a lot B)

    Do you ever watch Live PD? They are in Nye County frequently, although I seriously doubt anywhere near your neighborhood.

    gagrice said:



    Actually there are a lot of high tech engineering jobs. My next door neighbor says they cannot get enough people. He gets on a bus here in Pahrump 4 days a week for a 2 hour ride up into the never never land of NV. Dept of defense has installations all over. The beauty of retiring here is the COL is half or less of CA, OR or WA. Provided you are not addicted to gambling. Think of the Summer Heat like you do the rainy season in the PNW. Both keep you indoors. Though we go out for our walk around the golf course just as the sun is coming up. Pleasant 68 degrees this morning. Warmish 97 outside right now, with 14% humidity. Cools off enough to open all the windows in the morning and let the fresh air do its thing. Not like Hawaii where it is nice all the time. But our home is not likely to get covered by lava either. Or burned by fire or flooded or hurricane damaged. No place is perfect.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    gagrice said:

    Shiftright:
    What? They don't have fires and crime in NV? Good luck with that!
    As for taxes, my attitude has always been--I'm fine with taxes as long as I feel I'm getting something for them. If I see bike paths, and park benches, and filled-in potholes and cops on patrol and the fire truck or EMTs show up in a jiffy, and services for old folks--you know, the amenities that make life pleasant and safe--then tax me!


    Kitchen fires maybe, no wild fires. Very low crime in Pahrump. Las Vegas is just far enough away to keep out the riff raff. You must live in a part of CA I have never visited. I NEVER felt I got my moneys worth out of the taxes I paid in CA. How about 3 calls to complain about a party half mile away with music so loud it shook the house. Finally about midnight the lazy [non-permissible content removed] sheriff goes and tells them to turn down the music. Cities with homeless camped everywhere, defecating on the sidewalks spreading Hepatitis. Is there any city in CA that is safe for a woman to walk at night alone? Services for old folks that are not wealthy in CA is a real joke. Have you checked out the nursing home costs in your part of CA. If they are anything like San Diego, you better have a bundle saved. $10,000 a month is not the best care by far. Forget decent care if you are on SS and Medicare only. Many states treat their elderly better than CA. One of many reasons for older people to get out while you still can.

    "Every American wants paradise but few want to pay for it".

    My Hawaii paradise is now under several feet of Lava. My ocean front dream home under the lava is about a mile from the water. Glad we got to spend a month there last year before it was destroyed. Happy with our choice for retirement paradise.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1260-Eldorado-Way-Pahrump-NV-8-48/65315957_zpid/?fullpage=true&view=public

    Your crime rate is low for NV but higher than U.S. average apparently. Higher than where I live at any rate.

    Like any place on earth, you'll have advantages over where you came from, and disadvantages from where you came from.

    Take Hawaii for instance. Place drives me nuts and it has some serious problems.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Take Hawaii for instance. Place drives me nuts and it has some serious problems.

    We decided to leave Hawaii right where it is. And you are correct it has many of the same problems we faced in San Diego. Hilo was the last enclave of sanity in the Islands. I gave up on Maui, Oahu and Kauai in the 1980s. Did not spend much time in Hawaii again till the late 1990s. Fell in love with the Hilo Puna area of the Big Island. Great farming, small population, low crime, and the best weather you can find anywhere. After we sold our flower farm we did not go back for about 5 years. The changes were more than we could handle. Traffic was bad all day long. Homeless have taken over all the parks in Hilo. Prices have gone way up almost to CA levels. The peace and tranquility of our beloved Kapoho still existed. Though prices were way over the top. Now they are all covered with lava and all the tide pools are gone. No reason to visit Hawaii again.

    https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1ZWnrwPSqtoOpdjj5QKaBZPQACQOzv5YD&ll=19.496129898086746,-154.83347169881438&z=15
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Your crime rate is low for NV but higher than U.S. average apparently. Higher than where I live at any rate.

    To listen to some of the locals you would think we are competing with Chicago for crime capitol. If a bicycle is stolen they are ready to form a vigilante party to string up the perp. I have watched the local news site and drunk driving is the worst crime reported. Many of the locals are trying to get the Brothels shut down. I am fine with them on the edge of town. Can't legislate morality. Not sure what gated community you live in. Hard to imagine anyplace with less crime than here. I am sure there are meth labs scattered around. Someone has to feed the drug habits of the cities. I think the negative comments are meant to keep people from moving here. I can't blame them, for not wanting to become Californicated.

    https://www.bestplaces.net/comments/viewcomment.aspx?id=92476675-8878-45F5-9216-456B8CA77A18&city=Pahrump_&p=53253800
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    This may be the best bit from a comment on Sperlings. I don't think this person thinks much of Californians.

    Now for the worst part about living in Pahrump or should I say Nevada period. The Californians! They are the most terrible people I have ever dealt with in my life. They come to my state because they are unhappy in California and then try and change the laws like they had in California. WHAT? Why would you leave a state you are tired of paying high taxes and strict laws to go to another state and make the laws the same as what you left? IDIOTS!
    So I guess if you are a degenerate gambler, drug user, drunk or from California - Pahrump is the perfect place to be.

    https://www.bestplaces.net/comments/viewcomment.aspx?id=CF5AA934-616C-4FF2-BB8C-7783265D9E69&city=Pahrump_&p=53253800
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Ha, people say the same thing here - Californians leave to find something better, and with the new insights, also bring their high living costs and insane traffic with them.

    Back to houses, it is to the point here where I think this listing in my area is a relative bargain - and probably listed low to encourage a bidding war. Cool house and nice location, sadly, there's a good chance it will be knocked down and replaced with an oversized new behemoth.
  • laurasdadalaurasdada Member Posts: 5,181
    Gagrice, you should run for mayor! Or work for the board of tourism, maybe we'll be neighbors in the next few years. Until then, New England: the best place to live!

    My dad did enter assisted living in Santa Monica, </$4k/month. He seems content with the people, facilities and care. Nice folks that I"ve met there. But, even as a resident of MA, the taxes/prices give me pause in LA. Even In & Out prices are up from my last visit in December to my visit last month. Oh, the humanity.

    '21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)

  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Last time I had In & Out Burger; well, the thrill was gone. Still like the fires, but the burger and shake are just alright. I guess as you get older image becomes less important than reality. I think Steak 'n Shake gives you more for similar money these days.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    laurasdada said:

    Gagrice, you should run for mayor! Or work for the board of tourism, maybe we'll be neighbors in the next few years. Until then, New England: the best place to live!

    My dad did enter assisted living in Santa Monica, </$4k/month. He seems content with the people, facilities and care. Nice folks that I"ve met there. But, even as a resident of MA, the taxes/prices give me pause in LA. Even In & Out prices are up from my last visit in December to my visit last month. Oh, the humanity.</p>

    No politics for me. I encourage my friends to think about where they will be financially in 10-20 years. I could live in NV on my SS. Not even a chance of doing that in CA. I wanted to have us where either one of us could maintain our current lifestyle when the other passes away.

    We have some friends in CA that opted for assisted living. It was the upfront cost that turned me off. $100,000, then $3500 a month with only a few meals provided. A retired doctor friend moved into a nice place in LaJolla and pays $10,000 a month with all meals, no nursing care available. He does not have one of the ocean view rooms. Four blocks to the bluff overlooking the ocean. Just does not make sense to me. Most places treat you great until the money runs out.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Most places treat you great until the money runs out.

    Maybe that applies to more things in life than just your residence!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    fintail said:

    Ha, people say the same thing here - Californians leave to find something better, and with the new insights, also bring their high living costs and insane traffic with them.

    Back to houses, it is to the point here where I think this listing in my area is a relative bargain - and probably listed low to encourage a bidding war. Cool house and nice location, sadly, there's a good chance it will be knocked down and replaced with an oversized new behemoth.

    Must have been a bargain at $1.7 million. One day and sold. Very likely will be a tear down. Kind of small and old. Hard to comprehend people having that kind of money. How many millionaires work for Microsoft. All probably dream of a house on lake Washington. The house across the street on the lake is paying $75,000 a year in property taxes. No longer get to write that off with the new Tax plan.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Great location, and a house that IMO is reasonably sized unless you are the Brady Bunch.

    Many of the old MSFT millionaires have either already bought or are maybe buying a retirement property elsewhere. Much of the upper end material here isn't selling to locals, rather, to the "investor" visa purchasers who have been making in-roads for a few years, and are now maybe ramping it up now that nepotist Jared was hawking pay-for-play residency not too long ago.

    Those taxes are high because the property is worth 8 figures. In terms of a rate, the rate itself isn't high - lower rates here than in many low cost how amenity low human development indicator places, just higher values. I have no problem with an eventual end to such tax deductions and the mortgage interest deduction - it is really just a subsidy for the housing industry, and a penalty for renters.

    Here's a rather shameless ad directed at that set
    gagrice said:



    Must have been a bargain at $1.7 million. One day and sold. Very likely will be a tear down. Kind of small and old. Hard to comprehend people having that kind of money. How many millionaires work for Microsoft. All probably dream of a house on lake Washington. The house across the street on the lake is paying $75,000 a year in property taxes. No longer get to write that off with the new Tax plan.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited June 2018
    Most of them don't "have" money. They are borrowing money. Our "strong economy" is either debt-driven or leveraged. It's not about productivity.

    You take just about any occupant of a 1.5 million house and as an experiment cut off three months paychecks---utter crisis ensues.

    On the bright side, a smaller percentage of people are upside down on their mortgages than were in 2008. So increase in equity is helping their standard of living. But that doesn't mean they are making more money in wages. They aren't. Even if they sold their $$$ CA house and bought a more affordable NV house outright with the proceeds, they still haven't had an increase in wages. If expenses increased, there's no way for most Americans to cover that.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Those taxes are high because the property is worth 8 figures.

    Absolutely true. Be the same or more in CA or OR. It is the sheer amount of money people are willing to spend to have a home on Lake Washington, or Pacific Ocean. I try to keep my expenses less than half my income. If I die first my wife loses my pension. Living in CA with much higher COL would be a struggle. When all is closed and we only have our properties in NV, we can save money with just my SS check covering expenses. With taxes, insurance and Utilities almost quadruple for a smaller home, it is a no brainer to get out of CA. Here we drive 3-6 miles for groceries, doctor, hospital, dentist, dining. Only downside is our diesels like longer trips. So a trip to Costco every 2-3 weeks is good for our vehicles. No more 30 mile trips for a Drs appt. And NO stinking CRV rip-off.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    edited June 2018
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Most of them don't "have" money. They are borrowing money. Our "strong economy" is either debt-driven or leveraged. It's not about productivity.

    You take just about any occupant of a 1.5 million house and as an experiment cut off three months paychecks---utter crisis ensues.

    On the bright side, a smaller percentage of people are upside down on their mortgages than were in 2008. So increase in equity is helping their standard of living. But that doesn't mean they are making more money in wages. They aren't. Even if they sold their $$$ CA house and bought a more affordable NV house outright with the proceeds, they still haven't had an increase in wages. If expenses increased, there's no way for most Americans to cover that.

    You are right on all points. People live far above their means. Even when I worked for Ma Bell from 1961 to 1970 I saved every month. Like so many people I fell into the Interest trap in the 70s. Hey you could write off consumer interest. When that went away I got myself out of consumer debt by sacrificing. Living on the cheap. Never eating out, making a peanut butter sandwich for a meal. When you have been frugal all your life, it is not easy to just frivolously spend. Now we eat out 4-5 times a week. I have to remind my wife if she wants Filet Mignon order it. I can afford it. Life gets better every day.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Fintail, this one is for you. talk about money laundering.

    There are knee-high weeds growing in many gardens and walkways during the summer. After winter snowstorms, the streets are dutifully plowed long before the knee-high snowbanks on many driveways.

    An analysis of property assessment records for 60 mansions and townhouses on the once-forested slopes of Highview Place and Highgrove Place shows a whopping $350.416 million combined real estate value — an average of $5.84 million — in the luxury enclaves below Cypress Bowl Road.

    The area, developed between 2009 and 2014, was marketed to investors from China. Two-thirds of the names on titles in the B.C. Assessment database are non-anglicized Chinese names. Some of those names are familiar to court watchers in B.C.

    https://thebreaker.news/news/west-van-empty-mansions/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There's a limited amount of land around Lake Washington - it is only so big, everyone wants to live here, and not all areas around the lake are equal, some costs much more than others. You can still find not-insane oceanfront in WA though, I can get something for the price of a condo here. I wouldn't want to live there though, winters are really dreary, and in most areas, summers are overrun with hordes of tourists. Scenic, but lack of employment, lack of cultural amenities, lack of living amenities - I don't want to go to a couple hours to go to a normal sized store or to visit a medical specialist.

    That's a nice thing to do for your wife. I think my grandfather did the same, and now my grandmother, in her 90s now, has no problems staying in her house (which is worth dozens of times more than they bought it for in the 60s - but she gets a senior tax exemption) and doesn't have to live like a pauper.
    gagrice said:



    Absolutely true. Be the same or more in CA or OR. It is the sheer amount of money people are willing to spend to have a home on Lake Washington, or Pacific Ocean. I try to keep my expenses less than half my income. If I die first my wife loses my pension. Living in CA with much higher COL would be a struggle. When all is closed and we only have our properties in NV, we can save money with just my SS check covering expenses. With taxes, insurance and Utilities almost quadruple for a smaller home, it is a no brainer to get out of CA. Here we drive 3-6 miles for groceries, doctor, hospital, dentist, dining. Only downside is our diesels like longer trips. So a trip to Costco every 2-3 weeks is good for our vehicles. No more 30 mile trips for a Drs appt. And NO stinking CRV rip-off.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yep, that's not a new thing, and it is 100% the same here. I can find numerous empty houses in tony areas, and viewing "sold out" condo towers is laughable, half the units are dark and obviously vacant.

    "Extreme vetting", as the authoritarians like to say, is only for 'po folk.
    gagrice said:

    Fintail, this one is for you. talk about money laundering.

    There are knee-high weeds growing in many gardens and walkways during the summer. After winter snowstorms, the streets are dutifully plowed long before the knee-high snowbanks on many driveways.

    https://thebreaker.news/news/west-van-empty-mansions/

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Someone on SS could live here quite comfortably. Not the ritz, but well built. 2.5 acres with killer views. Permitted as a garage. So not sure what the banks would think. May have to be a cash buy. I may convince the Ms we could make a few bob on it. Half mile of dirt road may scare off some people. Only 3 miles to a dandy restaurant. Nine miles to Walmart. Not much chance of people encroaching on you for at least another decade. No light pollution to deal with for stargazers. I would put up a car port with solar panels. Plenty of room to build a shop garage.

    https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1340-W-Bluebird-Ave-Pahrump-NV-8-60/122479476_zpid/?fullpage=true
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Looks like project house hell, but if you threw enough money at it, it could be cool for a single or a couple - big garage below, live upstairs. Nice price, I can't imagine conventional financing for something like that, however. Dirt road would need work.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I don't think a bank would touch it. My wife said the garage doors could be closed to block the Sun. It is facing South so it would get quite hot in the winter. One of those places, where do you start? Or do you just live in it the way it is? The problem for me as an investor, is rental potential. Even if you got $800-$900 a month, the ROI is not enough to put up with the kind of people that want to be out that far from town. It would be good for that type person selling out someplace else with enough cash to buy it outright. I got a feeling if you waved $75k cash in their face the owners would take it. I found an old listing before they converted it and put the windows on the front. I would not count on anything being done to the roads. I just wonder what the HOA does to justify $75 a month. No covenants being enforced.


  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    By the looks of it, I am going to need a good 25K to get it up to par, and that's not touching the dirt all around it nor the dirt road (half a mile of pavers can't be cheap). I don't see ROI either, this is something to have as a personal retreat. Might be fun to tinker with cars and bikes there, but there's a limited amount of people who are going to be into it.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Zillow says $950 a month rent. I think a person would be lucky to get $800. That is only 9% ROI. Buy it for $75k and rent for $800 as is, the return is about right. I don't think they added any value with the windows on the front. They paid $54k and wasted money trying to make a house out of a garage. A lot of good reasons why it has been on the market almost 2 years.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    Yeah, my 25K in immediate rehab has 5K to remove those cheap looking and ill-fitting windows and reverting back to the original garage doors. I can see potential in it, it's kind of cool, but that potential doesn't mean profit, and it will appeal to a fairly small niche. If it was in my area for 100K, I'd buy it yesterday :)
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Fintail, NOTHING in your area can be bought for 100,000. Even if there were still trailer parks you couldn't get there!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    On that much land, if it was 1MM in this zipcode, it would be the steal of the century, and I could buy it and flip it and win a lottery.

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    How high can real estate go? I think the RE market is cooling a bit for now. So glad to be where I am right now. I just don't see the draw to California, with all the craziness going on.

    https://www.wral.com/would-you-pay-1-billion-for-this-view-/17729925/
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited July 2018
    I've heard that the rate of increase locally is slowing too - maybe we hit the resistance point. No deflation, but less gains. Rent increases are slowing too, as supply and demand are hitting that point. I think it's a good sign - a housing-dependent economy is a dangerous thing. It's an artificial market in many places.

    Regarding CA, it's the weather and culture, I suppose. Cool place to visit, but not on my list of places to live, although to touch on that article, it'd be very cool to have a house featured in an old TV show or movie, and the Brady house isn't insanely dear by local standards.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I just saw some article that had Seattle in the top 10 primed for a hit when real estate corrects. But then in finance, most articles on the web are worth no more than what they cost! Inflation is picking up, houses have already inflated, so I think the fed will continue increasing interest rates. Just like under Greenspan, easy money propped up housing and other assets, then the Fed tightens and bam.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    There's so much techbro money and unvetted offshore gold here, that a 2008 Las Vegas style collapse is quite unlikely IMO, but I can imagine growth stopping, or even some deflation. Some areas here did suffer during the ought bubble burst, but everyone is now right side up again. There's only so much money to be spent by normal working people, and housing has many stretched thin as it is.

    The economic slowdown that many believe is a virtually guarantee by 36 or so months out could also have an impact.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Ten years without a recession is pushing the extremes. One of the good aspects of this housing inflation, is banks are much more critical. No liars need apply for a loan. Stated income is not good enough. They want proof positive. If we decide to just pay this place off, I don't see any borrowing in our future.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    No liars, and hopefully no lies by the mortgage broker and connected entities. I think back in the oughts, people lied because they were told to. It was a two way street, and they are still feeling it in many areas.

    This is just my gut feeling, but if I don't think I would buy locally unless I was planning to hold for at least 5-10 years, and could afford it without hardship. I think a point of resistance is being met, and if a few nations ever stopped the flight of capital, or if ours finally had the guts to vet imported capital, it might cause some issues here.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    You probably need 5 years if the market stays stable just to make up the difference from the costs of buying and then selling the place. It is expensive on both sides really.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    berri said:

    You probably need 5 years if the market stays stable just to make up the difference from the costs of buying and then selling the place. It is expensive on both sides really.

    I would not count on anything less than 10 year turnaround unless you are flipping and or are a realtor. The home we just sold in CA was still a loss even though it looked ok. Paying $625k, putting about $85k into it over 11 years, then selling at $720k was a losing proposition. The fact we lived in it for 11 years has to be taken into the equation. We would have paid at least $3000 a month for 11 years. Figuring in taxes, repairs and insurance over 11 years it cost us about $613 a month to live in a mountain top home. With all things considered we did fine. So thankful to be out of FIRE country. One last look at our little bit of CA paradise.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-cpBJTM-gs&amp;feature=youtu.be
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    I think you made out OK based on buying at a high point in the market, in a region with high carrying costs. Had you bought at the same time in many parts of the country, you would have really been in the red.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    This sprawling mansion, which I can almost see from where I am sitting, was demolished today

    Zillows at nearly 7 figures, and the house appeared to be a teardown anyway. I wonder if it will be replaced by "luxury" (as in plywood rather than particle board) townhouses for overleveraged tech workers, or a mcmodern mansionette for unvetted money to hide in.
  • GloriaWalkerGloriaWalker Member Posts: 7
    Yeah it costs really much. I am also looking for new house but cant find an affordable one.
  • VinriderVinrider Member Posts: 7
    I would be ecstatic to find anything at three times that price today. Depends where you live I suppose.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,415
    edited June 2019
    Update: a maybe 4000 sq ft mcmansion is being stapled together on the site of the little old bungalow I linked a few posts above. I've been observing its progress from my front room window for a few months, and I suspect it will be complete within the month. I can't describe the architecture other than bland - pretty, it isn't, but it won't offend those who go with the flow around here. I'm no expert, but the roofing material and windows do not appear to be top of the line, for something that will be well into 7 figures

    Speaking of that, one of my favorite local houses has hit the market - I see this place every time I cruise in the fintail. I like the style of this old place, and the originality. Sadly, I suspect this is going to be knocked down and replaced by a mcmodern or faux farmhouse, the two leading styles these days.

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