My guess is that it was about time for component failure, independent of whether you used conventional, blended, synthetic group III hydrocracked or synthetic oil (PAO IV). As you know, even if done correctly; a super charger (blower) puts more stress on certain components!
Having said that, I have and will continue to use a PAO group IV, synthetic on all my vehicles.
(Mobil One 5-10w30 Delvac One 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 5w40), i.e., three models, 4 vehicles, if that is of interest)
I also have being doing 15k oil and filter change intervals with absolutely no concerns (in over 660k miles).
Perhaps the closest engine to yours is a V8 350 CID chevy engine (LS6) This one currently is a 2001 and has app 65,000 miles. Since I do not live with a super charged vehicle, is there a cool down procedure? (like a 1-2 min idle for a turbo before shut off to prevent heat soak)
In regards to leakage, this current crop of vehicles does not leak at all! I have never once had a coolant concern, and spot UOAs confirm also. There are two I6's, Japanese, GM V8 350 high output engine, American, and a 4 banger turbo diesel 1.9, German.
It's designed for diesels but is cross compatible (according to the label) with gas engines spec'd to SL. I imagine when SM comes out it will match that too.
It is a little cheaper than M1 so I was thinking of using it in my PT Cruiser....
But if I had to guess, I would say that the Rotella full synthetic is a hydrocracked group three. I am sure the Shell web site will dance circles around the hope that their full synthetic is truly a PAO group IV. While the verdict is still out, there are some studies that say the group III NEW blends can be as good as say group IV PAO's. My guess also on the PT cruiser is probably the coking issue due to the PT cruisers' turbos? I am sure if you look up the higher temp limits they are pretty similar between hydrocracked and PAO like Mobil One. Given that, the higher ash % of the PAO group IV appeals to me. Also the diesels' turbos runs cooler than the gasser turbos.
You point out one of the neat things about CI-4 oils being backward compatible with the gasser SL. So for example, I would not hesistate to back fill an SL oil (like Mobil One 5w-30)with the CI-4 oil (like Mobil One Truck and SUV aka Delvac One 5w40). Also vice versa I would not hesitate to use the Delvac One 5w40 as primary fill for any of my Mobil One 5w30 vehicles either.
Please note: I WOULD NOT use an SL oil like Mobil One 5W30 in the CI-4 diesel engine!!
The things that stops me are 1. 1 dollar per quart more for the Delvac 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 2. I know for a fact that higher viscosity oils over the long term, experiences a SLIGHT loss of MPG(my experiences is .5-1 mpg) This is not truly statistically significant, but since my time horizon (10-20 years) and milege horizon is long,(250k and above) I am trying to put as many factors to work in my favor as possible.
So I do use Delvac One 5w40 aka MObil One Truck and SUV 5w40, in my TDI. (turbo diesel) My time and mileage horizon for the INXS of 10,000 hr diesel motor is 10-20 years and 500,000 -1,000,000 miles. So for me, time will tell. However, I am betting the farm so to speak on the Mobil products. Are they the best? NO! but one of the better ones that is off the shelf available etc etc! If I had a shorter time and mileage horizon than stated, I would not hesitate to use Rotella products!
Lately I have come around to thinking that 5-30 may be on the thin side for some applications. VW and the other European manufacturers who still require 40 weight equivalency at operating temperatures make me wonder whether 5w-30 isn't more about saving gas than saving engines. I do believe the 0w and 5W designators for cold starts are a good idea, though, vs. the typical auto parts shopper still using, for example, 10w-30 or 10w-40.
The 2.5 liter engine in the standard PT Cruiser is working very hard. It's not a turbo, but it's hauling around the equivalent of early era minivan weight. I know I have to use the accelerator much harder in traffic than my so-called economy cars, and the mileage reflects that. Also it is my "weekend/summer road trip car" which puts it on the road in mid-day heat, with a family load, as opposed to early morning, early evening "cooler" commute time with just me behind the wheel.
So I have decided to give the Rotella a try in this "demanding" application and see how mileage is affected, and how the engine holds up - I usually sell my cars on a short cycle, but intend to keep the PT Cruiser up to about 80-120,000 miles. During that longer life span, I'd like to keep compression, engine cleanliness, and performance as close to new as possible.
Thanks, Ruking, for the thumbs up on Rotella. I will be using M1 0-40 (or the dealers "German" Syntec) in my VW Golf, just because that will be my "sporty" ride, driven hard, and I intend to keep it a long time.
I would tend to agree with you about saving gas mileage vs saving engines!!! A typical engine warranty period is 3/36k to my VW's 4/50k miles! When you contrast that with the LONGER emissions control systems warranty, I think it is pretty clear which system can COST the OEM's MORE in the long run.
I also stand corrected on the turbo/non turbo issue. The upshot to a non turbo is the oil is simply formulated better with the high heat of the turbos in mind! So all things being equal you would tend to coke less than if you had a turbo.
hi there...rukes...!! It is good to hear from you.
I shall give the new V8 some new oil then. What do you suggest for a 5.7 l V8 , supercharged ?
I heard its OK to use syn...in fact, one guy swears its the best in this engine....but I am not sure which kind...would the Mobil 1 that I get at costco be OK ?
Hope all is well and your Jetta TDI and TLC are all doing fine.....
Oh...forgot...I heard that there is no need to cool down the supercharger...since it is not operating from the exhaust gas...but by pulley . there is less/no heat soaking compared to turbos. But I need to change the oil in the supercharger itself...which requires 5W-50 syn oil...
The cayenne has 2 turbos, but I don't need to cool down, cause they have 2 little oil pumps that keep the oil circulating and cooling the turbos even after engine shutoff. But that sounds like too much complicated components that may go wrong. Oh well...I'll sell it in a few before warranty expires....
sorry , but I think I am missing something ? I assume diy means do-it yourself.
I do take the cayenne back to the dealer, if needed. It just got a factory oil change and alignment..they even gave me a loaner Audi.
My main concern is whether the SUBURBAN can take synthetic oil now, since it has been 3 oil changes since new engine. Do you have anything to add to that ? I hope so.
shell's V-power gas? We're relocating next week across the country (2200 miles) in our 2002 Malibu with 19K miles. Maybe the V-power gas gives better gas milage? Today I crawled under the car and changed the engine oil with 5w30 Mobile 1 fully synthetic oil. I'm also gonna inflate all 4 tires to 33psi. Would be interesting to see how much the gas milage improves with all this. So far the car still runs like new. It's not too early for synthetic, is it? I used synthetic blend for the last oil change just to be safe. Now the car "appears" to be a little louder with the synthetic. Maybe I'm hearing things that aren't there, but any idea?
I can't say that I have. The last time I filled with Shell products it did not significantly change the fuel mileage!!
Best of luck with your 2200 mile relocation trip. Makes me think another road trip is in order.
I also don't know what to think about putting your tires' psi to 33. 15% within the max tp on the sidewall is a good place to start, given the oem sticker recommendation.
Since break in for a gasser is app 1000 miles, with 19k on the clock you are far from being early, whether you are old school or new school.
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll give the shell V-power a try just to see how it works. The recommended pressures for my Malibu's tires are something like 26 front 24 rear, which are way too low IMO. Don't know why and how they came up with these figures.
I'll try to remember to give you all an update after our move.
Recommended tire pressure for 1998 Malibu is 29/26 psi, front/rear. Low, but still not 26/24. Probably, the same with your car.
In my experience, moderate increase to something like 32/30 front/rear is better than what was recommended by GM. This was with the original Affinity tires; I replaced them with performance tires (Firehawk SH-30) after they wear out, and currently my tires are inflated to 35/32.
However, it depends on road conditions. We live in CT, where highways predominately are paved with asphalt. When driving on concrete, it would be better to decrease the pressure to something close to the manufacturer's recommendations. When driving on NY highways (mostly concrete), we feel every seam. Not a pleasant experience for driver and passengers, and probably not good for tires and suspension.
In my experience, it is really important to maintain the 3 psi difference in pressure between front and rear. Especially with not new tires. A technician inflated once all Affinity tires even, at about 22k miles. I did not check, and found it after the car fish-tailed. Not a pleasant experience.
The optimal tire pressure depends also on how heavy loaded is your car. The more belongings and passengers, the higher pressure. This is in theory; I have no first-hand experience. Do not change pressure when driving to beach with wife and son :-). Probably would inflate a bit before driving 2000 miles with a lot of books, tools, etc.
Unreliable. Better to discuss it on Malibu forum, because the problems did not concern tires. Except the OEM Affinity were inferior and wore out at about 32k miles. The retail Affinity were (are?) warranted for 80k miles.
The dealer said to change the oil every 3000 miles unless you have an oil change indicator, which I have. I use Mobil 1 and at 7500 miles, I still had 24% oil life left, but I changed it anyhow. How does it distinguish between using regular oil and synthetic and what does it base the indicated oil life on? I do mostly highway driving. What is the expected life of Mobil 1?
The oil indicator is based on GM spec oil, which fortunately is satisfied by any SL grade 5-30 oil EXCEPT that the GM spec includes a slightly more aggressive pour point requirement (cold temperature viscosity) that SOME oils don't satisfy, and VERY few advertise themselves as meeting (Castrol includes this spec on their website, and the Goodwrench branded oil also works). The SM grade oil, ILSAC GF4, is an even better oil and will be widely available soon.
In short, Mobil 1 is fine for running your oil according to the indicator light, which actually doesn't know what kind of oil you are using. It is based on an algorithm taking into account number of starts per oil change interval, gas mileage, etc. Basically short drive city drivers have to change more often. GM set the algorithm based on oil tests. It is a pretty good system.
That having been said, a couple of points come to mind. First, be religious about following the owner's manual. If it says, oil indicator or 6 months, whichever comes first, go with the 6 months regardless of mileage (4,000, 5,000 etc). Second, be scrupulous about oil filters. In particlar, Frams have been bad mouthed. They are used in private label form at some oil change shops, so be careful. AC Delco filters, on the other hand, have had some outstanding reports, so feel safe just to use the Goodwrench product.
Personally, I wouldn't run even M1 past 5,000 miles, but then I drive small displacement, OHC engines. These are harder on the oil than OHV, 3.8 GM engines(unless you have the supercharger). It sounds like 7,500 miles is your personal comfort zone no matter what the indicator light says...if that is the case, go with your instincts. There is something to be said for sleeping well at night....
Thanks for the feedback. The last car I had, (1998 Olds), I changed oil every 5000. Since I bought the 04 Buick and make several trips a month to WV, (approx 400 mi 1-way), and based on what the dealer suggested, I was concerned that I might be changing it too soon I will try the 7500 again and see if there is any problem. According to the dealer, I won't void the warrantee if I go by the indicator. I am not comfortable with going to 10,000 between oil changes.
Volkswagen now recommends a certain group of synth oils for the 1.8T Passat, mostly 5W40 but with a few exceptions. One of those is Mobil 1 0w40. I've been using Valvoline SynPower 5W40 and it seems fine (and is on the list) but I can also get the Mobil1 0-40 locally. So, my question: could someone explain these two different weights, and why I might want one vs. the other? Or point me to an easy explanation? For example, would you be better advised to use 0w40 or 5w40 in a given season (say, winter)? Or is really not a significant issue, and I should just use whichever is cheaper? Thanks.
It depends on how cold is the winter. All synthetics are very good for normal winters; 5w* is fine for colder places, for example it is popular in Moscow, Russia; 0w* is for extreme cold, e.g. Alaska.
It is almost impossible to get a dino based oil with 0 weight. Thus the non-full synthetic oils, like Valvoline and Castrol, don't offer 0W ratings.
Mobil 1 is a true synthetic, engineered from the ground up and assembled from simple, non-mineral oil chemicals. Thus is has no wax in it at all, and has a naturally lower pour point than even the heavily hydro cracked, iso de-waxed mineral oils.
In other words, the 0W designation is a freebie, something extra you get based on how Mobil 1 is made. It has same high temperature characteristics (even better, actually) as the 5-40's.
Thanks - clear explanations. But let me follow up, Micweb and yurak, with my bottom line question: If you had to go buy 5 quarts tomorrow for this car, and you had to choose between Mobil 1 0-w40 and Valvoline synpower 5w40 (same price), and we'll have some winter weather before my next oil change - which one would you get?
I like the sound of "true synthetic", "freebie," and "no-charge extra" - sounds like a recommendation for Mobil1 - but I just wanted to ask my question clearly. Thanks.
Well, where do you live? Or, rather, how cold will be your winter?
Personally, I would buy Mobil 1. Because it is more proved oil. Additionally, Mobil does not play (yet?) with definitions of what is synthetic, i.e. does not lie in this respect.
I live in Connecticut, and our winters are mild. Do not need 0w* oil: 5w*, and even 10w* synthetic oils are good enough for me. I am buying 5w30 Mobil-1 for one of my cars and 10w30 Mobil-1 for another, year round. 0w30, 5w30, and 10w30 Mobil-1 costs the same in one quart bottles, but I am buying the oil in 5 quart jigs in Wal-Mart: this is a bit less expensive. Do not know about pricing for *w40.
The only "full synthetic" I put in my cars besides Mobil 1, is 5-40 Shell Rotella T, which is principally a diesel oil. It doesn't have Starburst certification, but it is loaded with antiwear additives and costs $12.58 for four quarts (gallon jug) at Walmart. Mobil 1 is about $23 for a 5 quart jug, slightly more. I put Rotella in my PT Cruiser, which is underpowered (2.5 liter pulling 3300 pounds) and hence I am more worried about engine life that catalytic converter life.
In my Scion I use 0-20 Mobil 1, in my Neon I use 5-30 Mobil 1, and in my VW I use 0-40.
I used to think that 10-40 is better than 0-40, that the "0" is fanciful, but actually its the 40 end of things that are important, not the cold pour (cold pour gets the oil to your bearings faster in any weather, though). For any specified engine oil range, though, there are oils that are at the "thin" end of the spec and oils that are at the "thick" end.
For example, most "high mileage" x-30 oils tend to be slightly thicker, at operating temperatures, than x-30 Starburst oils (fuel saving). Mobil 1 0-40 is relatively "thin" at the 40 end of things compared to Mobil 1 5-40 "truck and SUV" oil, which is heavier. This is deliberate; the 0-40 is designed for Euro spec cars like VW, Benz, BMW, which want a slightly thicker oil than we use here, but not punishingly thick for gas mileage. Mobil 1 5-40 has its origins, apparently, in Delvac 5-40 which is sold for diesel applications (but the additive packs are slightly different). So it is thicker, because diesel environments are way harder on cars.
I second yurakam on the "more proven" issue vs. Valvoline. I think it is also important to be able to pick up oil just about anywhere. Mobil 1 is well supported in almost all the weights at Walmart. I used to try to find the Valvoline for my VW but it was hard to locate.
At the end of the day, you'll be fine with either.
Compare the product data sheet for Mobil 1 Truck and SUV with the one for Delvac 1. Their additive packages may differ but their "typical properties" are identical.
There is another issue, and that is; certain oils in certain cases can and do run better in certain engines for certain reasons. To some, I know this is far from new, nor a particularly earth shattering revelation.
The revelation is in the fact that VOA's and UOA's can help you "project" which oil/s tends to do well given certain facts and parameters and UOA's can confirm or deny this, based on real time, real world data. Some real world examples; 5w30 Mobil One in Z06 Corvette. Delvac One 5w40 aka Mobil One Truck & Suv in VW Jetta TDI.
I have a new 2004 Honda Civic that might merit some discussion of this point. Honda Civic engines tend to happiest and positively slap happy(very untechnical I know) running a healthy dose of moly. So while it never mentions this in marketing or maintenance information, VOA's and UOA's have confirmed that the oem Honda Oil has indeed very high levels of moly. The interesting thing is using (this) conventional oil, Honda oem by way of owners manuals, shop technical data, etc., recommends 10,000 mile oil change intervals for so called "normal" and every other for the oil filter change (20,000 miles)
My point here is 10,000 mile intervals were formally for brave souls using synthetic oils!
Thanks to the good advice on this forum I switched to Mobil 1 0w40 for the 20,000 mile service on my Passat 1.8 turbo. I did not expect to notice any change from my previous oil, Valvoline Synpower 5w40. But I have noticed that since the service my mileage is better - at least 1 MPG better in highway driving (in a 30-mile stretch where I used to get 34 mpg, I now get 35+ mpg). It seems to be reproducible. So: could that possibly be the result of the different oil? If so, how? (The tires were rotated, too, but the front and rear tire pressure is the same as before.) I realize it could be a fluke, but am curious. Again, I know next to nothing about oil.
I am guessing, but yes it most probably can be attributed to the variable of 0w40 vs 5w40.
This is even more counter intuitive, but using my Honda Civic for example (slightly different), I project a .5-1 mpg gain when and if I switch to 0-20 synthetic from a 5w20 conventional. So if your experiences hold true for me my projection is probably low. This may not seem like a lot, but all things being equal the gas mileage gain over say a 10,000 miles oil change cycle almost makes use of the synthetic cheaper than using conventional oil!!??. With a 15,000 miles cycle for synthetic, it makes using a 10,000 mile conventional oil downright more expensive. Mobil One 0w20 is an excellent product in the Mobil line, but as it says on the label is made specifically with the 0w20 Ford/Honda in mind. It is not as flexible as the also excellent Mobil 0w40 product.
So say you do a 10,000 mile oil change interval with 35 instead of 34 mpg avg. (285.71G-294.12=8.41 g saved) So while synthetic oil IS more expensive from an up front cost point of view, you do save 8.41G and at say 2.25 dollars a g=$18.92 that will make the conventional oil higher in price with this semi hidden variable.
Since I do not know the exact measures for your car, I will use the Honda Civic, for illustrative purposes:
Refer to my earlier post. There is a slight range of actual viscoscities permitted for all oils - there are "light" 30 weight and "heavy" 30 weight. Vary too much, and you are not longer entitled to claim it is 30 weight.
The 5-40 Mobil 1 is slightly thicker than the 0-40, although both are "in spec." I presume the 5-40 Valvoline is also closer to the "thick" end of the spectrum, hence the mileage variation.
For just these reasons I have settled on Mobil 1 0-40 - it satisfies VW's spec to the "t"; it is also approved for Benz and BMW. Some of the other 5-40's are more "generic" for SUV's as well, etc.
I think they all offer fine protection, but the Mobil 1 apparently offers better gas mileage, as you have confirmed.
Does anyone live in Toronto and do you guys know where to get this oil? I check local stores such as Wal Mart and Canadian Tire and I couldn't find 0W40; they have couple of other grades (0W20....).
I have a 2001 CRV and have switched to AMSOIL Synthetic Universal ATF in my automatic transmission. No problems and I think it actually shifts smoother with the AMSOIL fluid than with the Honda Fluid. I am not aware of any synthetic differential fluids for the CRV at this time.
The only 100% synthetic oil, not a "fully" synthetic like Mobil 1 says, is AMSOIL Synthetic Oil. There is a difference. Fully synthetic oils can have mineral oils in them, 100% means what it says. No dino remains in this oil. Check out the information on the AMSOIL website. Also you can get a product data sheet from AMSOIL on any of their 100% Synthetic Oils.
We recently became the owners of a 1982 Plymouth Reliant wagon that had been my mom's until my fiancee's car gave up the ghost. This Reliant has approx. 45,000 miles on it total at 22 years old. Our question is pretty simple:
Why or why not would we want to switch from conventional oil to synthetic? Some people have suggested we make the switch to help keep it going even more (mind you, usage is up from when my mom had the car, but its probably averaging 15-20 miles/day, 5 days/week). It has recently had a complete tuneup, carb work, etc, so it should be in pretty good shape (it is averaging 18-19 mpg). We're not looking to start a war on which brand of synthetic is better than another brand, but looking for hopefully objective information on why we should or should not choose to change to synthetic next time around. Thanks.
My two cents: No, a car like that doesn't need it. Synthetic is best for "stressed" engines, which I define as either hard-working, as in towing, or high-performance, as in racing, or turbo motors, as in high rpm, high heat.
I *might* possible add that synthetic would be good for a car exposed to EXTREMES of climate, that is, very very cold or very very hot (Alaska, Nevada desert, etc.).
If your needs don't fit any of the above, I would say synthetic is a waste of money for your old car. Also, there is some speculation that synthetic in a very old car could cause some leaking. I've had that happen and also NOT happen in a couple old cars where I tried it, so I can't say for sure.
Hello, I have been useing Mobil 1 and M-1 filters for twenty five years, I have put it car I have bought @45000 miles. that used earth oils and never had problems.I buy it @Wal Mart @ 3.80 a qt.in a 5 qt.container.I also use it my honda snow blower and all my mowers and lawn tractor.I know its the best.
Yes, even with the increasing popularity of virgin oil analysis(VOA's) and used oil analysis;(UOA) in widespread use in military/jet engine applications for at least 30 years that I know of; the concept of 3k oil changes still has a deep and wide hold.
Approx 5 years ago (maybe a little more) I remember that Consumer reports did an oil and oil change report on taxicabs in New York. They did oil changes at 3,500 miles on one group; 7,500 on the other group. They used all synthetic in some; all mineral oil in others; and 1 qt synthetic to 4 qts mineral in the last group. They tore down and inspected the engines at either 100K or 150K miles (can't remember which)
Anyway; as I recall, there was virtually no difference in engine wear between the 3,500 and 7,500 mile oil changes; which really surprised me. And I also seem to remember that using 1 qt of synthetic to 4 qts mineral oil gave as much benefit as using full synthetic.
Personally? I change my oil about every 4-5K miles; I don't wait 7,500 miles. But I do use 1 qt of synthetic every time. My engines have all given me exceptional durability; but maybe that's because I drive slow and careful, and don't run the piss out of them (even though I'm only 35
I would also agree. Neither conventional nor synthetic are of much use during a "cold start". Three items that can be of use: 1. block heater to keep oil warm and viscose 2 preoiler and a bit off topic: 3. bypass oil filter
The TAXI Cab test was not the everyday world. Give me test results on the vans used by soccer moms as the harshest real world test of a motor oil and I will look at the results with interest. All others are lab type situations where the outcome is not represetative of reality.
Problem is, real life tests take too long for the marketing departments to undertake, oils change, engines change etc. I have used synthetics for over 10 years and swear by them but if you change oil every 3000 miles it makes no difference what you use
Taxis aren't the real world? Oh, I'm not going to buy that argument. A soccer mom's car might have different use, but surely not harder use.
The taxi test is good because it's just about the only longterm, real-world test we have that isn't "anecdotal" or laboratory--in other words, scientific rigor was applied (more or less)to cars operating in the real world. If you and I don't tear down side by side engines used in the real world, all our claims are "anecdotal". Doesn't mean they are wrong, just not proven to be repeatable or free of other influences.
but I agree, if you dump oil every 3K, it doesn't make any sense to use synthetics for 99% of the drivers out there.
Comments
My guess is that it was about time for component failure, independent of whether you used conventional, blended, synthetic group III hydrocracked or synthetic oil (PAO IV). As you know, even if done correctly; a super charger (blower) puts more stress on certain components!
Having said that, I have and will continue to use a PAO group IV, synthetic on all my vehicles.
(Mobil One 5-10w30 Delvac One 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 5w40), i.e., three models, 4 vehicles, if that is of interest)
I also have being doing 15k oil and filter change intervals with absolutely no concerns (in over 660k miles).
Perhaps the closest engine to yours is a V8 350 CID chevy engine (LS6) This one currently is a 2001 and has app 65,000 miles. Since I do not live with a super charged vehicle, is there a cool down procedure? (like a 1-2 min idle for a turbo before shut off to prevent heat soak)
In regards to leakage, this current crop of vehicles does not leak at all! I have never once had a coolant concern, and spot UOAs confirm also. There are two I6's, Japanese, GM V8 350 high output engine, American, and a 4 banger turbo diesel 1.9, German.
It is a little cheaper than M1 so I was thinking of using it in my PT Cruiser....
But if I had to guess, I would say that the Rotella full synthetic is a hydrocracked group three. I am sure the Shell web site will dance circles around the hope that their full synthetic is truly a PAO group IV. While the verdict is still out, there are some studies that say the group III NEW blends can be as good as say group IV PAO's. My guess also on the PT cruiser is probably the coking issue due to the PT cruisers' turbos? I am sure if you look up the higher temp limits they are pretty similar between hydrocracked and PAO like Mobil One. Given that, the higher ash % of the PAO group IV appeals to me. Also the diesels' turbos runs cooler than the gasser turbos.
You point out one of the neat things about CI-4 oils being backward compatible with the gasser SL. So for example, I would not hesistate to back fill an SL oil (like Mobil One 5w-30)with the CI-4 oil (like Mobil One Truck and SUV aka Delvac One 5w40). Also vice versa I would not hesitate to use the Delvac One 5w40 as primary fill for any of my Mobil One 5w30 vehicles either.
Please note: I WOULD NOT use an SL oil like Mobil One 5W30 in the CI-4 diesel engine!!
The things that stops me are 1. 1 dollar per quart more for the Delvac 5w40, aka Mobil One Truck and SUV 2. I know for a fact that higher viscosity oils over the long term, experiences a SLIGHT loss of MPG(my experiences is .5-1 mpg) This is not truly statistically significant, but since my time horizon (10-20 years) and milege horizon is long,(250k and above) I am trying to put as many factors to work in my favor as possible.
So I do use Delvac One 5w40 aka MObil One Truck and SUV 5w40, in my TDI. (turbo diesel) My time and mileage horizon for the INXS of 10,000 hr diesel motor is 10-20 years and 500,000 -1,000,000 miles. So for me, time will tell. However, I am betting the farm so to speak on the Mobil products. Are they the best? NO! but one of the better ones that is off the shelf available etc etc! If I had a shorter time and mileage horizon than stated, I would not hesitate to use Rotella products!
The 2.5 liter engine in the standard PT Cruiser is working very hard. It's not a turbo, but it's hauling around the equivalent of early era minivan weight. I know I have to use the accelerator much harder in traffic than my so-called economy cars, and the mileage reflects that. Also it is my "weekend/summer road trip car" which puts it on the road in mid-day heat, with a family load, as opposed to early morning, early evening "cooler" commute time with just me behind the wheel.
So I have decided to give the Rotella a try in this "demanding" application and see how mileage is affected, and how the engine holds up - I usually sell my cars on a short cycle, but intend to keep the PT Cruiser up to about 80-120,000 miles. During that longer life span, I'd like to keep compression, engine cleanliness, and performance as close to new as possible.
Thanks, Ruking, for the thumbs up on Rotella. I will be using M1 0-40 (or the dealers "German" Syntec) in my VW Golf, just because that will be my "sporty" ride, driven hard, and I intend to keep it a long time.
I also stand corrected on the turbo/non turbo issue. The upshot to a non turbo is the oil is simply formulated better with the high heat of the turbos in mind! So all things being equal you would tend to coke less than if you had a turbo.
I shall give the new V8 some new oil then. What do you suggest for a 5.7 l V8 , supercharged ?
I heard its OK to use syn...in fact, one guy swears its the best in this engine....but I am not sure which kind...would the Mobil 1 that I get at costco be OK ?
Hope all is well and your Jetta TDI and TLC are all doing fine.....
The cayenne has 2 turbos, but I don't need to cool down, cause they have 2 little oil pumps that keep the oil circulating and cooling the turbos even after engine shutoff. But that sounds like too much complicated components that may go wrong. Oh well...I'll sell it in a few before warranty expires....
see ya on the forums...
I do take the cayenne back to the dealer, if needed. It just got a factory oil change and alignment..they even gave me a loaner Audi.
My main concern is whether the SUBURBAN can take synthetic oil now, since it has been 3 oil changes since new engine. Do you have anything to add to that ? I hope so.
may you and your vehicles live long and give you many years of enjoyment...
Best of luck with your 2200 mile relocation trip. Makes me think another road trip is in order.
I also don't know what to think about putting your tires' psi to 33. 15% within the max tp on the sidewall is a good place to start, given the oem sticker recommendation.
Since break in for a gasser is app 1000 miles, with 19k on the clock you are far from being early, whether you are old school or new school.
I'll try to remember to give you all an update after our move.
In my experience, moderate increase to something like 32/30 front/rear is better than what was recommended by GM. This was with the original Affinity tires; I replaced them with performance tires (Firehawk SH-30) after they wear out, and currently my tires are inflated to 35/32.
However, it depends on road conditions. We live in CT, where highways predominately are paved with asphalt. When driving on concrete, it would be better to decrease the pressure to something close to the manufacturer's recommendations. When driving on NY highways (mostly concrete), we feel every seam. Not a pleasant experience for driver and passengers, and probably not good for tires and suspension.
In my experience, it is really important to maintain the 3 psi difference in pressure between front and rear. Especially with not new tires. A technician inflated once all Affinity tires even, at about 22k miles. I did not check, and found it after the car fish-tailed. Not a pleasant experience.
The optimal tire pressure depends also on how heavy loaded is your car. The more belongings and passengers, the higher pressure. This is in theory; I have no first-hand experience. Do not change pressure when driving to beach with wife and son :-). Probably would inflate a bit before driving 2000 miles with a lot of books, tools, etc.
In short, Mobil 1 is fine for running your oil according to the indicator light, which actually doesn't know what kind of oil you are using. It is based on an algorithm taking into account number of starts per oil change interval, gas mileage, etc. Basically short drive city drivers have to change more often. GM set the algorithm based on oil tests. It is a pretty good system.
That having been said, a couple of points come to mind. First, be religious about following the owner's manual. If it says, oil indicator or 6 months, whichever comes first, go with the 6 months regardless of mileage (4,000, 5,000 etc). Second, be scrupulous about oil filters. In particlar, Frams have been bad mouthed. They are used in private label form at some oil change shops, so be careful. AC Delco filters, on the other hand, have had some outstanding reports, so feel safe just to use the Goodwrench product.
Personally, I wouldn't run even M1 past 5,000 miles, but then I drive small displacement, OHC engines. These are harder on the oil than OHV, 3.8 GM engines(unless you have the supercharger). It sounds like 7,500 miles is your personal comfort zone no matter what the indicator light says...if that is the case, go with your instincts. There is something to be said for sleeping well at night....
Thanks.
Mobil 1 is a true synthetic, engineered from the ground up and assembled from simple, non-mineral oil chemicals. Thus is has no wax in it at all, and has a naturally lower pour point than even the heavily hydro cracked, iso de-waxed mineral oils.
In other words, the 0W designation is a freebie, something extra you get based on how Mobil 1 is made. It has same high temperature characteristics (even better, actually) as the 5-40's.
I like the sound of "true synthetic", "freebie," and "no-charge extra" - sounds like a recommendation for Mobil1 - but I just wanted to ask my question clearly. Thanks.
Personally, I would buy Mobil 1. Because it is more proved oil. Additionally, Mobil does not play (yet?) with definitions of what is synthetic, i.e. does not lie in this respect.
I live in Connecticut, and our winters are mild. Do not need 0w* oil: 5w*, and even 10w* synthetic oils are good enough for me. I am buying 5w30 Mobil-1 for one of my cars and 10w30 Mobil-1 for another, year round. 0w30, 5w30, and 10w30 Mobil-1 costs the same in one quart bottles, but I am buying the oil in 5 quart jigs in Wal-Mart: this is a bit less expensive. Do not know about pricing for *w40.
In my Scion I use 0-20 Mobil 1, in my Neon I use 5-30 Mobil 1, and in my VW I use 0-40.
I used to think that 10-40 is better than 0-40, that the "0" is fanciful, but actually its the 40 end of things that are important, not the cold pour (cold pour gets the oil to your bearings faster in any weather, though). For any specified engine oil range, though, there are oils that are at the "thin" end of the spec and oils that are at the "thick" end.
For example, most "high mileage" x-30 oils tend to be slightly thicker, at operating temperatures, than x-30 Starburst oils (fuel saving). Mobil 1 0-40 is relatively "thin" at the 40 end of things compared to Mobil 1 5-40 "truck and SUV" oil, which is heavier. This is deliberate; the 0-40 is designed for Euro spec cars like VW, Benz, BMW, which want a slightly thicker oil than we use here, but not punishingly thick for gas mileage. Mobil 1 5-40 has its origins, apparently, in Delvac 5-40 which is sold for diesel applications (but the additive packs are slightly different). So it is thicker, because diesel environments are way harder on cars.
I second yurakam on the "more proven" issue vs. Valvoline. I think it is also important to be able to pick up oil just about anywhere. Mobil 1 is well supported in almost all the weights at Walmart. I used to try to find the Valvoline for my VW but it was hard to locate.
At the end of the day, you'll be fine with either.
(4 for this example).
You might investigate VOA's (virgin oil analysis)
1. Delvac One 5w40
2. Mobil One Truck & Suv)
and UOA's (used oil analysis)
1. Delvac One 5w40
2. Mobil One Truck & Suv 5w40)
for the "REALITY" baselines and how they do in different REAL engines.
The upshot in my estimation is:
1. consistent high quality,
but where the "rubber meets the road"
2 how does it do for ME/YOU!!??
The revelation is in the fact that VOA's and UOA's can help you "project" which oil/s tends to do well given certain facts and parameters and UOA's can confirm or deny this, based on real time, real world data. Some real world examples; 5w30 Mobil One in Z06 Corvette. Delvac One 5w40 aka Mobil One Truck & Suv in VW Jetta TDI.
I have a new 2004 Honda Civic that might merit some discussion of this point. Honda Civic engines tend to happiest and positively slap happy(very untechnical I know) running a healthy dose of moly. So while it never mentions this in marketing or maintenance information, VOA's and UOA's have confirmed that the oem Honda Oil has indeed very high levels of moly. The interesting thing is using (this) conventional oil, Honda oem by way of owners manuals, shop technical data, etc., recommends 10,000 mile oil change intervals for so called "normal" and every other for the oil filter change (20,000 miles)
My point here is 10,000 mile intervals were formally for brave souls using synthetic oils!
(The tires were rotated, too, but the front and rear tire pressure is the same as before.)
I realize it could be a fluke, but am curious. Again, I know next to nothing about oil.
Thanks.
This is even more counter intuitive, but using my Honda Civic for example (slightly different), I project a .5-1 mpg gain when and if I switch to 0-20 synthetic from a 5w20 conventional. So if your experiences hold true for me my projection is probably low. This may not seem like a lot, but all things being equal the gas mileage gain over say a 10,000 miles oil change cycle almost makes use of the synthetic cheaper than using conventional oil!!??. With a 15,000 miles cycle for synthetic, it makes using a 10,000 mile conventional oil downright more expensive. Mobil One 0w20 is an excellent product in the Mobil line, but as it says on the label is made specifically with the 0w20 Ford/Honda in mind. It is not as flexible as the also excellent Mobil 0w40 product.
So say you do a 10,000 mile oil change interval with 35 instead of 34 mpg avg. (285.71G-294.12=8.41 g saved) So while synthetic oil IS more expensive from an up front cost point of view, you do save 8.41G and at say 2.25 dollars a g=$18.92 that will make the conventional oil higher in price with this semi hidden variable.
Since I do not know the exact measures for your car, I will use the Honda Civic, for illustrative purposes:
Conventional Exxon Superflo 5w20 oil @ 1.04 x 3.2-3.4 qt= $3.33/$3.54.
(PLUS $18.92 in gas savings, would make that $22.25/$22.46 respectively)
vs
synthetic Mobil One 0w20 oil @3.99 x 3.2/3.4qt= $12.77/13.57
(as a footnote; the Honda Civic gets even better gas mileage of 35/38 with conventional oil.)
The 5-40 Mobil 1 is slightly thicker than the 0-40, although both are "in spec." I presume the 5-40 Valvoline is also closer to the "thick" end of the spectrum, hence the mileage variation.
For just these reasons I have settled on Mobil 1 0-40 - it satisfies VW's spec to the "t"; it is also approved for Benz and BMW. Some of the other 5-40's are more "generic" for SUV's as well, etc.
I think they all offer fine protection, but the Mobil 1 apparently offers better gas mileage, as you have confirmed.
Why or why not would we want to switch from conventional oil to synthetic? Some people have suggested we make the switch to help keep it going even more (mind you, usage is up from when my mom had the car, but its probably averaging 15-20 miles/day, 5 days/week). It has recently had a complete tuneup, carb work, etc, so it should be in pretty good shape (it is averaging 18-19 mpg). We're not looking to start a war on which brand of synthetic is better than another brand, but looking for hopefully objective information on why we should or should not choose to change to synthetic next time around. Thanks.
I *might* possible add that synthetic would be good for a car exposed to EXTREMES of climate, that is, very very cold or very very hot (Alaska, Nevada desert, etc.).
If your needs don't fit any of the above, I would say synthetic is a waste of money for your old car. Also, there is some speculation that synthetic in a very old car could cause some leaking. I've had that happen and also NOT happen in a couple old cars where I tried it, so I can't say for sure.
Anyway; as I recall, there was virtually no difference in engine wear between the 3,500 and 7,500 mile oil changes; which really surprised me. And I also seem to remember that using 1 qt of synthetic to 4 qts mineral oil gave as much benefit as using full synthetic.
Personally? I change my oil about every 4-5K miles; I don't wait 7,500 miles. But I do use 1 qt of synthetic every time. My engines have all given me exceptional durability; but maybe that's because I drive slow and careful, and don't run the piss out of them (even though I'm only 35
Consumer Reports Article
The surprising truth about motor oils
July 1996, pp 10-13
Also I don't think the cabs undergo the extremes of temperature and high revs that synthetic addresses so well.
It's those frigid cold starts that are engine killers.
Problem is, real life tests take too long for the marketing departments to undertake, oils change, engines change etc. I have used synthetics for over 10 years and swear by them but if you change oil every 3000 miles it makes no difference what you use
The taxi test is good because it's just about the only longterm, real-world test we have that isn't "anecdotal" or laboratory--in other words, scientific rigor was applied (more or less)to cars operating in the real world. If you and I don't tear down side by side engines used in the real world, all our claims are "anecdotal". Doesn't mean they are wrong, just not proven to be repeatable or free of other influences.
but I agree, if you dump oil every 3K, it doesn't make any sense to use synthetics for 99% of the drivers out there.