Synthetic motor oil

ruking1

In a former life, I was the vehicle control officer in charge of (for the purposes of this discussion) flight line maintenance trucks (looked like the bread trucks of old or the modern day FED EX, UPS delivery trucks). When one of them had to go in for maintenance, it was almost more critical than the fighters/bombers we fixed going down! We ran them quite literally 24/7,stop, start, rain, shine, hurricane, hot, cold, blizzard, -70 to 140 degrees., idling (lots of idling), turn off, turn on etc. etc. The maintainance parameters were simple and brutal: rot gut motor oil, 50k miles and its time for a double tap to the engine! (no actually, bone yard) This attitude was pretty stupid in light of the fact we were not likely to get a replacement!

dave594

I was the OIC of a SAC missile unit's vehicle section and we didn't have the luxury of changing vehicles every 50k miles. We literally drove the pickups and vans used to go to the missile sites into the scrapheap. But the same operating conditions for us and constant maintenance to nurse the vehicles along. Not fun being stranded on a country gravel road in a blizzard.

Mr_Shiftright

I used to drive multi-fuel tankers in the Army for a while until I got bored. I liked that job though because nobody wanted to come within 300 yards of me. We did beat the hell out of them though, especially on the tank range and things like that. The maintenance guys ran like a small private country. I think they even had their own currency and laws.

ruking1

Yeah I guess for me at the time, I was pretty amazed at how the motors looked in the instances the motor pool had to tear them down!! (1974-1979) We'd tow lite alls, apu's, shoot in a pinch, munitions trailers. These vans would serve as meeting rooms, lunch rooms, equipment rooms, warming rooms,rain shelters, small arms storage, we could get a crew of folks from place to place.,cooling rooms, sleep sheds, communications rooms and on and on! Some other of my duties included spending a lot of time on active test and bomb ranges, where the vehicle and oil abuse was probably even more severe! :)Keep in mind this was the era of leaded regular gas also!

So to me the oil on the markets (especially synthetic)today are like light years ahead!

armtdm

Debatable. Constant idling, rarely shutting down, and stop and go driving with idiots behind the wheel versus the mom with multiple cold starts a day, idling, stop and go driving, and taking many months longer to pile up the same mileage thus all kinds of condensation issues, more climate issues with cold starts, and about as many idiots behind the wheel with the pedal to the floor, IMO a no brainer, the soccer mom is the toughest test.

ruking1

http://www.secoaugusta.com/mb4.htm

On a good day I think we got 4 mpg!

Mr_Shiftright

Just compare a 150K taxi with a 150K SUV and I think that should illuminate the question as to which vehicle takes the worst punishment. At least it does for me.

Sometimes theories go off in search of select bits of data whereas all the available data should really form the theory.

Unless soccer mom is also delivering coal in Alaska as a sideline, I can't see any undue stress on her car's engine. If accumulated moisture from non-use is the fear, then any oil is susceptible to that.

ruking1

I find it a bit puzzling especially that VOA's and UOA's are not only commonly available, but priced far less than its ever been, (15-30 dollars)that the bru ha ha is not only alive and well but flourishing. All that one has to do to validate or invalidate a "policy" or if one believes that ones oil falls into or even out of the standard deviation is to draw 4 oz of warm/hot oil from one's engine and send it to the "laboratory" and wait for the results.

Trust me, I would not use synthetic oil if longer interval changes were indeed more detrimental to the equipment than regular oil and oil changes at the 3-5 k mark! If there is even a hint of doubt, spring for the VOA and or UOA. for BOTH and/or either/or.

So for me, synthetic (even thought it cost the same as conventional oil to manufacture) but usually sells for up to three times more has 1. less environmental impact 2. less cost per mile lubricated 3. fulfills the long term goal of greatest # of miles with least wear and cost.

bigbutr

Recently took possession of a 1996 extended cab with the 4.3 vortec V-6 with just 63,200 miles for use on a rural mail route with the USPS. I'll only be using it twice to maybe three times a week for a 58 mile route, but, as you can assume, there is a lot of stop and go. Any advice on what fluids I should change out. I'm thinking of switching over to full synthetic oil and was wondering if there is some upgraded auto tranny fluid which would help as well. I'll be taking advantage of Midas' lifetime brake guarantee since I plan on working with the USPS for a while.
FWIW, the truck was in immaculate condition, has nearly every option that was offered that year and looked nearly brand new. Old people take care of their stuff.

Mr_Shiftright

What's your climate like?

bigbutr

Well, it's pretty hot in the summer and somewhat cool in the fall and winter. It doesn't snow where I'm at, but it does get down into the 20's and 30's on occasion.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmmm...I'm thinkin' that no, you don't need synthetic. There's really no stress in what your car is doing. You'd be more apt to be harder on brakes. Mail can't be very heavy a load. Sounds like it's no more arduous on the car than a paper route. You're not even racking up miles all that fast, so the argument of less frequent oil changes doesn't even hold very much weight for you I think.

bigbutr

My only concern is about the incredible amount of stop-and-go since I service around 500 boxes during the 6-7 hours I'm out on the road. Also, I drive it on occasion outside of the postal route, though only up to the store or to pick up something big for the garden or house. I just want to make sure it lasts a long time. I appreciate your comments.

Mr_Shiftright

I see what you're saying but unless you do a lot of cold starts (I presume your car keeps running on its route), or unless you are in extremes of heat and cold, I really don't see much stress in this type of use. Probably your brakes and transmission or clutch would go through more stress than the engine.

wtd44

http://www.redlineoil.com/

nodule

I just purchased a 2005 Hyundai Elantra last week.

I plan on keeping this car for 10 years, which

should be around 145,000 miles.

I plan on doing my first oil change when I

hit 1000 miles, what would be the very best oil

and filter to use and what intervals to change??

 

Thanks

adamjeeps

Hi nodule.

 

I've used Amsoil oil and filter with success. My 92 Grand Prix 3.1 had 110,000 miles when I traded and ran like new and burned no oil. My 99 Grand Prix 3800 has 101,000 miles and runs like new and burns no oil. I change my amsoil oil and filter every 10,000 miles. If it were me I would run regular oil until about 15,000 mile and switch to Amsoil oil and filter and change every 5,000 to 7,000 miles after that. However, you may want to check with the dealer since they have a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty. Maybe they would use your oil and filter but still honor your warranty. Make sure you keep your warranty and good luck. I am shooting for 150,000 miles with my Prix.

pulgo

I have used Amsoil as well, since the second oil change. I have used Amsoil ASL 5W-30 for up to 23k miles between changes and the oil analysis comes back with the recommendation to keep using it. I do however use a by-pass filter system and that adds quite a bit of cost and filters much better than the standard oil filter.

 

I am at 110k miles on my 2001 Echo now and plan on keeping the car at least until it reaches 500k miles or more.

 

So far no oil consumption between oil changes. I could not be happier with this result.

 

It all comes down to how expensive and or new the car is and how long you want to keep it.

The longer you keep the car the more sense it makes to treat it with the good stuff and, of course, be very methodical (read anal) with your maintenance.

 

Merry Christmas to everybody

ruking1

I also would agree! Figures like 500,000 miles to 1,000,000 miles require just a touch more thought and care. Manufacturer's can at lower costs put in pre oilers and bypass filters. It is also abundantly clear for a host of reasons, not to their "BEST" interests. As a yardstick, after market we are talking 150 dollars for a bypass filter system and 350 dollars for a preoiler system. The preoiler structually removes the 50-80% of engine wear. (due to dry start) The bypass oil filter removes the 40% of the rest that is due to particulate size.

 

 

The pre oilers and bypass filters would also structually allow you to at least double the oil and filter change intervals. So a normal 10,000 mile oil and filter change would now be 20,000 miles. For me that would be up to 40,000 miles btw OCI's!!

 

My mileage goal for a 2003 VW Jetta TDI is the above mileage goal! After careful research I have also concluded that while both a preoiler and bypass oil filter would nice, it is marginally cost effective, even at the 500 dollar level and 500,000- 1,000,000 miles!

armtdm

Problem with extended drains under the warranty is just that, dealer will not honor problems if you go beyond the 5000 or 7500 mile manual intervals. Thus, synthetics becvome too expensive in short drain intervals. Myself, I never cared about the warranty, was always willing to go to court if I had to against a dealer (oil rarely, if ever, causes engine failure and never in the first 50-60,000 miles) I use Synthetics and lots of good ones out there, Mobil 1, Castrol 0W30 German oil, Redline, Amsoil etc. I have used Amsoil also, Camry has 170,000 and used it since 1000 miles but because the Camry V6 just beats up the oil I only go 7500 miles between changes. My daughters car on the other hand, once a year, 10-14,000 miles and the oil is fine. You have to go with what lets you sleep at night.

 

Short trips in cold climate is brutal on oil, long highway trips very easy and can extend the drain. If you drive the car at least 10 miles 90% of the time that you start it you should be able to go the max per your owners manual. Stick to the weight/viscosityed in the manual as well.

 

Filters, I like flow over filtering ability, thus I use K&M but Purolators, Pure Ones, NAPA old, OEM filters are good. Never ever use a Fram filter!!!!!!!!!!!!

ruking1

"Problem with extended drains under the warranty is just that, dealer will not honor problems if you go beyond the 5000 or 7500 mile manual intervals. Thus, synthetics becvome too expensive in short drain intervals. Myself, I never cared about the warranty, was always willing to go to court if I had to against a dealer (oil rarely, if ever, causes engine failure and never in the first 50-60,000 miles) I use Synthetics and lots of good ones out there, Mobil 1, Castrol 0W30 German oil, Redline, Amsoil etc. I have used Amsoil also, Camry has 170,000 and used it since 1000 miles but because the Camry V6 just beats up the oil I only go 7500 miles between changes. My daughters car on the other hand, once a year, 10-14,000 miles and the oil is fine. You have to go with what lets you sleep at night.... "

 

The concept of "extended" drain is actually changing!! This to me is a good thing. I read somewhere (oil industry rag) that the Qwiky lubes fight hard to push back the "average" person's (OCI) oil change interval of 5,000 miles. So obviously they define "extended" as 3,000 miles

 

On separate oem vehicles that I have (Honda, Chevrolet, VW,), one 2004 has a 10,000 miles OCI with 20,000 mile oil FILTER change with CONVENTIONAL OIL!!. Another 2001 has a max of 15,000 miles OCI. Still another has one of 10,000 miles OCI. All the manufacturer's WILL honor the engine warranty given their above intervals.

 

When my Toyota Landcruiser's were under warranty, I asked my local dealership if they would honor the engine warranty (36,000 miles)given 15,00 mile OCI's. They said NOT a problem. My 94/96 Toyota Landcruisers are now FAR out of warranty (36,000 miles) At 120,000 and 60,000 miles and I have been doing 15,000 miles OCI's since all of them (5) were new (app 660,000 miles total)! Not to "tug on superman's cape" but I ran a 87 TLC with 15,000 mile oil change intervals and FRAM oil filters (PH 8A)for app 250,000 miles and 14 years.

armtdm

Ruking1

 

Your dealers said that they would honor the warranty with your extended OCIs? Great, however, in the real world I hope you got that in writing. Saying one thing and living up to it, expecially a dealer having to rebuild an engine, are two different animals, expecially when he knows you were outside the manual in your service.

ruking1

Both he (service manager) and I are and still are "old school" about this, wink/nod/handshake. I knew and he knew also, there was a VERY VERY remote possibility of engine failure. Besides he would be exactly the person that would go to bat with the OEM if I did need engine warranty work. Actually he and I went through app 250,000 miles and app 17 valve adjustments on an 1987 TLC with Mobil One 5w30 with again 15,000 OCI's so we have history!? Both he and his mechanics were almost dumbfounded at how the innards looked at various points in the mileage history.

jlg

I just changed my oil with Castrol newest addition to its family of oils, Castrol SYNTEC, the company shows some key benefits. Which are listed below I was wondering what people think about this oil.

 

Your comments are greatly appreciated.

 

Key Benefits

 

- SYNTEC provides superior protection against deposits. Corrosive particles such as acid, soot and oxidized fuel fragments can cause costly damage to critical engine parts.

- SYNTEC contains a Powerful Additive Package that neutralizes corrosive particles, preventing them from grouping together and forming sludge.

- Neutralizes acids in your engine that can cause rust and corrosion on vital engine parts such as cylinders, bearings and hydraulic valve lifters.

- SYNTEC meets the world's toughest gasoline engine protection requirements.

- SYNTEC provides Stability & Endurance under extreme conditions (heat, load, speed) that can cause conventional oils to break down.

- SYNTEC delivers the ultimate performance under high-temperature conditions: unsurpassed protection against volatility burn-off and viscosity increase.

- SYNTEC can be used with confidence in every gasoline engine passenger car, new or old, regardless of oil previously used.

- SYNTEC is fully compatible with all conventional and synthetic oils.

- SYNTEC offers a level of protection that Outperforms All Leading Conventional Oils, passing severe industry torture tests.

 

jlg

shipo

Hmmm, sounds like marketing bilge to me...

  

The latest information that I have is that the Castrol SYNTEC that is generally available here in North America is a "Hydro-Cracked" petroleum based oil, not a true synthetic oil. As such, I prefer Mobil 1 0W-40 in my car. They are able to call it a "Synthetic Oil" because of a legal technicality, unlike Mobil 1, Amsoil, German Castrol SYNTEC and a few others.

  

Best Regards,

Shipo

ruking1

I would agree with Shipo. On bobstheoilguy, there are some VOA's and UOA's. You can read em and weep, and get folks subjective and objective impressions. Most say that the GC or German Castrol is a better performer than the USA version.

 

For me, I am a user of Mobil One 5w30 (app 694,000 miles) Mobil One Truck and Suv 5w40 aka Delvac One 5w40 (47,000 miles) and upon vehicle break in 0w20.

wtd44

Hydrocracked engine oils are being made by taking natural oil and making large molecules smaller, leaving the desirable molecules as the product. Synthetic engine oils are constructed the other way around. Smaller molecules are combined to make the desired molecules.

  Hydrocracked product is being sold for far less money per quart than are the synthesized products. I contend that the hydrocracked product is the far better purchase, all things considered. There are some marketers selling hydrocracked product at high prices. I suggest passing those oils by, and purchasing the competitively priced brands.

ruking1

As an upfront cost comparison, I would agree. However the real question is would you take a hydrocracked product such as Castrol Syntech to 15,000-20,000 dare I say 25,000 miles like a Mobil One product.

 

However, the cost to process the synthetic and hydrocracked products are almost identical. So the cost differential between say PAO group IV products like Mobil One at $4-5. vs say a hydrocracked product group III like Castrol Syntech at 1.92 to 3.50 can be due to a plethora of unseen factors. i.e. less volume, higher marketing costs, higher profit, etc.

 

I read a factoid, (oil industry study) that most folks change their oil at app 5,000 miles. This would of course spell doom and gloom to the qwiky lube industry!

 

(MAX 3,000 miles between oil changes or your motor coach will turn into a pumpkin mentality)

 

On the other hand, the motor oil manufacturer's continue to raise the bar substantially. I read several UOA's that put Exxon Mobil 5w20 Superflo (SL standard) good to go for 9,100 miles in a Honda Civic and or Ford Focus!!! With still a lot of chemical UMP PAH left! Honda Civic has normal OCI's recommendations of 10,000 miles with every other oil change to change the filter (20,000 miles)

 

This oil is app .75-1.5 per quart. To boot, this is no where near a "synthetic" oil!!! Don't forget the new GF standard is now out!? WOO HOO!

micweb

For us gearheads who check our oil levels (presumably) and tire pressure monthly (presumably) with a nice accurate gauge, not a tire station pump gauge, and crawl under the car to check for damage if we hear a bump, and know that constant velocity joints have to be inspected for tears in the covers that could lead to CV joint failure -

 

I'd say run the oil as far as your own personal judgment dictates.

 

But for a lot of people, and you know the car abusers I am talking about, the ONLY time their tire pressure gets checked is at a lube joint, the ONLY time anyone looks at the undercarriage is at a lube joint, and ALMOST the only time anyone changes their air filter is at a lube joint - because they are dealer-phobic and in denial about the need to any car maintenance whatsoever. These are the people who don't read the manuals of their Hondas and Toyotas, the manuals that politely ask the driver to make five or six checks regularly - oil level, other fluid levels, tire pressure.

 

IMHO, the 3K oil change is useless as an oil change, but invaluable as a recurring safety check.

 

The only thing I'd add, is that nowadays, with a small investment of extra time, it's better to do it at a dealer's fast lane or express lane etc., where the prices are the same as lube joints, but once you go there you get coupons for free "17 point" etc. inspections - by a mechanic who knows your brand of car.

 

Also, they run your car through their computer for announced recalls, TSB's, and "secret" recalls (or adjustments), something a quickie lube can't do.

wtd44

...that no excuse continues to exist for charging above $2 per quart for reciprocating engine lubricants.>:o}

armtdm

Castrol does produce one true synthetic oil that can be had in this country, it is the 0W30 produced in Germany and sold here. (AutoZone carries it Advanced Auto does not as well as some other outlets. Make sure the bottle says Germany as they also have a 0W30 made in USA that is the hydrocracked version. The German Castrol appears to be a very fine oil whereas the rest of the Syntec clan is so so in performance

beernut

... so I need some advice.

 

When synthetics first arrived on the market, I couldn't afford gas, let alone fancy oils. I'm now thinking about switching everything to synthetic.

 

I have a new, 2005 Corolla, my wife's daily driver - lots of short trips, with less than 2000 miles on it. Is it too early to start synthetics? Is is useful to do so?

 

I have a 1988 Town Car with 57,000 on it that is rarely driven. Is it too late to start and is it worth it?

 

I have a 1997 Windstar with a Ford reman. engine, 50,000 on it. Its my daily driver and does about 15 miles a day Monday through Friday and summer weekend, it pulls a 2000# camper trailer. Is it too late to start and is it a good idea?

 

I have a 1994 Murray mulching mower with a 4 HP Briggs and Stratton ... oh, never mind that...

 

What are your opinions on the rest?

Mr_Shiftright

My two cents? Use it in the Windstar and forget about the rest of them.

 

If the Corolla were kept outdoors in severe winter climate, I might also go with that one after 5,000 miles or so on the engine, but only if those two conditions were in place.

ruking1

Well for sure you can continue with conventional oil.

 

I use the (synthetic) Mobil One products in all of mine. (3)5w30, (1)5w40, (1)0w20. I also do 15,000 mile OCI's and as soon as the warranty is up on a TDI, I will probably do 20,000 mile OCI's.

 

In regard to the 2005 Corolla, I have its competitor Civic. The Civic as I have found out uses a 5w20 and it happens to be an oil that has hgher doses of moly. So the owner's manual says to leave the oem fill (Honda oil 5w20, made to Honda specs by ExxonMobil, aka ExxonMobil Superflo 5w20) for the full recommended term; i.e., 5k severe/10k normal, for the new engine needs the properties of the oem fill oil. I am thinking that the Corolla's owner's manual will say something similar?

 

After the break in time for the Civic, 5k/10k I will be going to the Mobil One 0w20., which coincidently is specifically made for Honda and FORD that require 5w20.

beernut

So, if I understand, what you're saying is:

 

50k on the Ford is not too late and I could benefit from it. Correct?

 

The Lincoln - with its low use - is just not worth the investment. Yes?

 

The Toyota - which is operated in northern Virginia's mild climate and is garage kept is only a "maybe"?

 

Some folks have recommendedd changing the new Corolla's oil by 1K or 2K because of factory goo in the engine, blah, blah. I don't agree and am leaning toward sticking with the 5K but going to synthetic.

 

My goal for any of this is engine longevity, not mpg. If all works out, I'd like to get 250 out of the Corolla - and maybe even that old Ford.

 

BTW, thanks for the speedy responses.

beernut

I noticed that you guys are talking OCI's of 15k and 20k. Unheard of in my day. How is it possible, and why would you do that?

ruking1

In regards to the 05 Corolla, I would go to the synthetic after the so called full term, epecially since by your response the oem owners manual says something similar to the Honda Civic's?

 

Yes, it is probably true that the oem fill will probably have some assembly lubrication. I am swagging it a bit here, but I am guessing that since assembly lube is a controlable consumeable item it might be app 1 oz-2 oz max.

 

I am also targeting the Honda Civic to go 250,000 miles and above! :)Another interesting thing is the normal oil change recommendation is 10,000 with conventional oil!!! Another anomoly is the recommendation for oil filter change is every other oil change. (10 severe/20 normal)

ruking1

The bottom line if you are interested, but doubt, you can always do oil analysis. (not unlike your doctor's orders for a urine test) Take a 4 oz sample send it to the lab and get the return analysis. Oil analysis is not cost effective at 10-30 dollars per to verify whether or not your oil is still good vs say 26 dollars for an synthetic oil and filter change. Yes, I did doubt, so I did do oil analysis in the beginning. Its long term value is trend analysis and confirmation of chose maintenance policies.

 

In the "good old days" I can remember when 1500 miles might be pushing it. 3,000 miles was like running a mental marathon!!

 

Actually for me there are a host of reasons. Since the average yearly mileage for most drivers is 12-15k, changing once a year is far preferable to changing up to 5 times and for me if you multiply it by 5 vehicles I do prefer yearly total of 5 times vs 25 times!!! Lower cost per mile lubricated, superior oil, less waste stream, 5x less or 5x more? (29.15 quarts per year vs 145.75 quarts) , slightly better mpg, lower sludge build up potential,

 
Lastly, I ran a 87 Toyota Landcruiser on Mobil 5w30 for 14 years and app 250,000 miles on 15,000 mile OCI's. Since this model had a requirement for 15,000 mile valve adjustments, the dealer mechanics tore the engine down a bit and did the valve adjustments app 16-17 times. So not only did they say it was ULTRA clean 17 times, they actually could do the physical measurements of those exposed components subject to wear. Even at app 230,000 miles they said they micro'd out almost NO wear and was not much different from the NEW specifications!! Of course, a periodic oil analysis was a helpful snap shot.

beernut

I'm familiar with oil analysis - used in in my old airplane days. Without trending (regular and many samples) its not very useful. I never felt that I benefitted from it beyond "peace-of-mind", but at 7500 feet, that's worth it. For the cars, I don't think I'll bother.

 

So... I'll take the plunge - its synthetic for the Corolla and the van.

 

OEM filters are OK for this, right?

ruking1

HE HE. I did forget to mention that the 87 TLC was run almost exclusively with FRAM PH8A oil filters, so yes, oem filters are just fine. Some oil filter are built better/worse and filter better/worse than others, but that is a different discussion.

wtd44

Valvoline supplies 5W-20 that is labelled as specifically intended to meet the oil requirements set forth by Honda and Ford. I use it in my 2002 Mountaineer V8. Valvoline supplies NAPA with that same oil, for sale as a house brand.

ruking1

Yes, there are a number of suppliers that actually conform to the Ford and Honda specifications. I have read in a number of places that the Ford specification is actually more rigorous than the Honda's. Be that as it may, I am glad the Valvoline works well for you.

 

I would also be remiss if I didnt say that the conventional oils are getting FAR better than before! I read on Bobstheoilguy, that folks using the Honda oem 5w20 and also the ExxonMobil 5w20 Superflo (Honda engine products) have actually done UOA's with 9,100 miles and the numbers not only looked good, but there was actually a fair amount of TBN left!!

marsha7

about synthetic oil for a few years now, and I have been a loyal arguer (as in one who argues for) for real dino oil...your postings have made much sense to me, and syn oil has now been around enough years, and reputable makers are making it, so you folks have converted me...I have 2 new cars this year, a 2004 Crown Vic and a 2004 Ram 1500 Hemi...I changed the oil in the Vic at 2000 miles, and used Motorcraft synthetic 5W-20 (I know, Motorcraft does not make the oil), which was recommended, along with a Motorcraft filter (the oil changes are done at my local Goodyear shop).. the Hemi had its first change at 1200 miles, and I used Castrol synthetic 5W-30, along with a Mopar filter...for simplicity sake, I will be using the Castrol 5W-30 in the Ford, so both cars have the same oil, but I will use the respective brand's oil filters, simply for convenience...now that the original oil is removed, I will be changing my syn oil at the 5K marks, such as 5K, 10K, 15K, 20K, etc...also for convenience, even tho syn oil can go from 7K-10K miles, changing every 5K ought to keep the engine spotless, and at only slight add'l cost...also rotate tires/check brake pads & rotors every 5K, so this schedule becomes somewhat easy)...I will probably change other fluids (flush tranny, power steering and brake fluid) every 25K...how often should I change rear end fluid (positraction/limited slip rear end, 3.92) and how often for radiator coolant (ought to be a fairly long time for coolant, I suppose) and how often for spark plugs and cap/rotor?...did I miss any maintenance items?

wtd44

I have always found that for those "other" fluids, such as gear oil, and so on, it is very convenient to just simply use the recommendations provided by the manufacturers in their owner manuals. You might want to step that up a bit for the differential, if you tow.

ruking1

One thing that can be overlooked in the drive train discussion is synthetic oil for those systems also. Some higher end cars do come factory filled with synthetic fluids, but most do not! So for example, not to pick on Honda, but for illustration purposes, the acknowledge economical Honda Civic comes factory filled with- yup you guessed it; all conventional fluids !!! It would be easy to wring out app 1-3 mpg just one the synthetic issue alone!?

Mr_Shiftright

Auto engineers would sell their grandmother to get even 1/2 mpg out of an engine. The idea that merely switching to synthetic would guarantee a manufacturer a 10% increase in fuel mileage seems implausible to me, or else every manufacturer would have done so instantly and years ago to boost CAFE standards and for obvious marketing advantages over competitors.

ruking1

For sure, your position does not reflect with some of the realities. Or is it that there is a glut in the auto engineer's grandmothers' market? Auto MAKERS constantly have to deal with compromises.

 

Again using Honda as an example, Honda's oem 5w20 oil is made to Honda specifications by ExxonMobil and the dealers sell over the counter for app 4-6 dollars per qt. ExxonMobil (surprised?) markets its own label Superflo 5w20 and this is available "aftermarket" in almost any auto chains store for a usual 1.44 and with rebate coupons app 1.00-1.09. So does this mean that because of the price differential that one product is 4 x's up to 6x's better than the other? Another might be: how many people actually believe Honda's (normal) 10,000 miles OCI's (with conventional oils?)

ruking1

A lot of the internal stuff is transparent to the customer. So another example; even though the cost to manufacture synthetic oil and conventional oil is similar in cost, synthetic has always sold at a premium to conventional oil. So in the case of buying a qt of "Honda oem 5w20" at 4-6 dollars, I would rather buy a qt of Mobil One 0w20 at 4 dollars, garner the 1 mpg rise, extend the OCI to 15,000-20,000. This would be as opposed to a 5,000 mile OCI that my Honda dealer insists is the right interval, despite Honda's recommendations to the contrary and... life is good!!?? Actually part of the reason for me going to Mobil One 0w20 is to TEST the probability that I will get better mpg. So if it happens not to work in my circumstances, then it is far better and cheaper to go back to ExxonMobil 5w20 at 10,000 mile OCI's at 1 dollar per quart. But if I do get between 1-3 mpg over a 20,000 mile OCI, the mpg savings will make running a higher priced synthetic oil actually cheaper to run per mile lubricated.

 

Needless to say the cost per mile lubricated can be ALL OVER THE PLACE.

andyman73

I may have missed it, or not, but just wanted to mention that the wife's 04 Merc. Sable LS premium wagon, comes factory w/Synthetic, and recommended 5K OCI. for the Duratec30. Now, it's not a Porsche or Corvette, but impressive non the less. That Ford would go that route, makes me happy. Wife wasn't into all that. But factory recommended is her mantra. I have used synth. in all of my cars from day one. All have been hi mileage beaters. For me, that's been 11 years. My father has been using synth for as long as it has been available on market.

 

Best example of that is the 78 Dodge van, lasted 19.5 years, only rebuilt the carb, never ever had the valve covers off. Went nearly 300K, through 3 teens learning to drive. Don't think that would have happened on conventional.

beernut

I'm certainly now convinced that the cash investment in synthetics is worth it - you folks have impressed me with your excitement about these products. But I am getting a little concerned that I am taking advice from people who are awake at 2:00 A.M. writing about oil.

 

Is it really that good?