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Synthetic motor oil

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Comments

  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, unfortunately I use 0W-40. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    They sell that also but in 1 qt bottles. (more as you would imagine)

    The reason why I brought that up was one of the most used viscosities (standards, if you will) 10w40 (old standard),10w30, 5w30 is now available in 0w30.

    For me, on one it meets the GM 4718 M standard, and the others on a 5w30, so I am curious if it will affect anything (specifically mpg) .

    Another anomoly is the 0w30 (0w40, 5w40 also) meets diesel specifications. (in addition to gasser turbo charger and supercharger specifications

    link title
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, I've bought it at WallyWorld a couple of times, but normally I find that AutoZone is far more convenient for me and has a MUCH more consistent supply of 0W-40.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No not semi-dumb at all. All things being equal the newer 0w30 would be good to go in your applications (see the owner's manuals) as I am swagging it called for 10w30, 5w30 at the time.

    Another thing that is NOT so obvious is by virtue of the fact it meets diesel specifications, soot % resistance is much higher than auto specifications.

    If you want another esoteric reason, I can drift into that; but am considering the eye balls glazing factor. :lemon:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Speaking strictly for myself, I'd use 0W-30 before I'd use 5W-30, and I'd use both of them WAAAY before I'd use 10W-30. Why? Well primarily because of our cool climate up here in New Hamster. That said, even when the OAT is up there, a "Zero-W" oil will flow in more volume following a cold start than either of the other two, and it is oil flow not oil pressure that protects the innards of your engine.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    High oil pressure could also be the result of a bad oil sending unit. My vette buries the analog oil meter which maxes out at 80 psi. The digital readout on the DIC says the oil pressure is 129 psi. Course it's probably the oil sending unit which you have to remove the intake manifold to get to which I'm not in a rush to change.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Your assumptions about Mobil 1 going 10,000 miles in your engines are probably spot on, that said, having UOAs done at the 7,000 mile mark are a great way to confirm said assumptions.

    As for oil grades, I'd be inclined to put 0W-30 in all three of your rides and be done with it. All of the something "W" thirties have a similar hot viscosity, however, the cold viscosity is considerably lower (a good thing) with the zero-W oil. Consider the following:

    Mobil 1 viscosity readings at 100C:
    10.0 cST – 10W-30
    11.3 cST – 5W-30
    11.0 cST – 0W-30

    Regarding the high pressure readings on the Astro, I seriously doubt that clogging is causing that issue. FWIW, due to manufacturing tolerances, you can take any two "identical" engines and hook them up and find significant differences in oil pressure, that said, the suggestion that the sending unit could be suspect is a valid one as well.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."Even with summer coming up, 0W30 would still be okay? "...

    Yes indeed!

    ..."The S-10 is now at 3K of it's second M1 change and I plan on leaving it in there for 7K, then getting an oil anylisis done to see where I stand. The Impala will get one at 7K as well as an oil anaylisis. I am guessing that I can push both to 10K or so, but want to see what 7K does. "...

    For sure do your 7k UOA's to satisfy your curiosity. However just take a sample and let the (7k ) oil change go until you get the results back from the lab. That way if it is good to go, you can change @ 10,000 miles or even GREATER.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Oil Life Monitor Stripped Bare
    Discuss this story

    (reprinted from General Motors)

    ..."Starting with the 2000 model year on certain vehicles, GM will raise the maximum mileage allowed for Oil-Life System-equipped vehicles to between 10,000 and 15,000 miles (16,000 and 25,000 km), depending on vehicle brand and engine*."...

    link title
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Right on track.

    If you read your oem owner's manual between the lines (probably not overtly stated) , you can probably deduce the olm was calibrated for CONVENTIONAL oil. Conventional oil has a TBN of 5/7 vs synthetic (i.e.,Mobil One 0w30) TBN of 12.

    So for example on the 01 Corvette Z06, the oem owner's manual calls for synthetic oil (Mobil One 5w30- TBN 12). So the OCI recommendation can be up to 15,000 miles, 1 year or OLM. My OLM usually comes on app 14,400-14,600 miles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I came across this web site. It rather rambles a tad, but when you read it twice to clarify what he is really saying, it is about the plainest english I have seen when it comes to lubrication and inter related subjects. This is not everyone's cup of tea, but here is the link.

    link title
  • msagmsag Member Posts: 7
    Hi i am really confused by the statement from my cabdriver friend.
    1. He says that at the place where they service almost all of our cabs in San Diego they use 20W50 dyno oil in all vehicles with more then 100k. We recently went to auction an bought my friend a newer 2003 Crown Vic. with 93 k. on it. I did not check the compression but it seemed like a well taken cared vehicle and the engine was in pristine shape. Why would he want to use such a heavy weight oil on the car that does so many stop and goes?
    2. I suggested starting using a synthetic oil in that vehicle because i am hoping he can get a lot more miles out of it that way and hopefully pollute a little less of the environment. We found Valvoline 5W20 @ a discount price, can/should he use that instead?
    Thanks for all your help!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I'd think the Delcos would be fine though I'd feel a lot better with Wix or Amsoil.
  • walthomcwalthomc Member Posts: 2
    Please advise me. Whats the problem w/ Fram filters? I've never had a problem w/ them.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Because of the inability to check the functionality of oil filters it would be difficult to substantiate whether an oil filter went into bypass mode (fails to filter) or not during its installed period.

    A few years ago, an independent test was done by cutting oil filters in half. The person doing the tests did not claim to be an expert in the field of oil filters rather a curious consumer. He had posted the results (pictures included) when cutting the filters in half. What he determined from the results was that Fram used the cheapest materials, had the last amount of pleats (filter area), and looked the least durable.

    Once the manufacturer discovered this and threatened a lawsuit, all bets were off and the site taken down. By that time by word of the net had spread that Fram filters were the worst in the industry. It was alleged that the Fram would go into bypass mode as early as 300 miles making it basically a useless oil filter. This didn't include the toughguard line nor the more expensive Frams. Just the cheapos that you can find at Wallyworld, Kmart, etc.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter would like to talk with anyone who recently have used aftermarket products that provide better fuel economy, such as the Tornado Fuel Saver and fuel-line modifications like air bleeders and magnets. The reporter would also like to hear from people who have tried oil and fuel additives or exhaust-system modifications as well. Please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information and what you used no later than Tuesday, June 3rd.
  • finzzfinzz Member Posts: 40
    I'm sure this has been brought up in the past but my eyes are fading fast reading all those great posts...

    At the risk of being redundant, how "important" would you say having the engine oil analyzed would be? And where would you have it done? (I live in northern NJ)

    I'm playing with 3 cars currently - all of which run very well:

    2005 Accord with 70,000 miles
    2006 Odyssey with 20,000 miles
    1994 Geo Prizm with 150,000 miles

    I'm pretty consistent with changing the oil in these cars and use either Mobile One or Castrol Synthetic - whichever is one sale.

    Which brings me to my next question: I've seen a bunch of posts discussing one oil vs. another. As mentioned, I use synthetic oil... Is there a big difference between engine oils and which would be considered the best?

    Thanks
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I perceive you asking very thoughtful questions and answered correctly would probably add to your already droopy eyelids. So could I direct you to Bobistheoilguy.com, where you can probably find UOA's for your specific/like vehicles. Vendors that do UOA's support and advertise there.

    On your next question, absolutely yes! Mobil One in almost any category/viscosity you care to talk about are probably ONE of the best to better "MASS" marketed synthetic (group IV) oils. Castrol Syntec as you probably are aware is a hydrocracked group III product. If they use a % of group IV, that fact is very very well hidden.
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    is a hydrocracked group III product"
    except 0W30 aka German Castrol as it has "Made in Germany" label.

    Krzys
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    At the risk of being redundant, how "important" would you say having the engine oil analyzed would be? And where would you have it done? (I live in northern NJ)

    Well, that depends. If you're using Mobil 1 or Castrol Syntec (especially 0W-30), and you're changing your oil at anything under 7,500 miles, then it is a virtual certanty that having UOAs performed would be a waste of money. If you are planning on extending your oil change intervals to 10,000 miles or more, then yes, having UOAs done on your cars is probably a good idea.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • bassmaxbassmax Member Posts: 9
    NEW MAXIMA 08....IF I DECIDE TO GO WITH SYNTHETIC BEFORE WARRANTY IS OVER, AND SOMETHING HAPPENS TO MY ENGINE DO I VOID MY WARRANTY IF I CHANGED OIL AT A LONGER TIME INTERVAL THAN NISSIAN RECOMMENDED?
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Two things:

    1) Please refrain from typing in ALL CAPS, it's considered shouting and rude.

    2) Most likely the answer to your question is in your Owner's Manual. That said, most manufacturers insist that you stay with the recommended Oil Change Interval (OCI) to maintain your warranty.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • rexmarrrexmarr Member Posts: 1
    How can I check if the Lexus dealer really put synthetic oil in the car? I don't trust them after being BS'd by the Service adviser on other issues.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Other than an oil analysis, watch them do it.
  • 600kgolfgt600kgolfgt Member Posts: 690
    As an aside, Everywhere else in the world, group III oils are considered "premium" motor oils, not "synthetic". In our "cost-cutting", "profit-oriented", "do-anything-for-a-buck" country of ours, group III oils are considered synthetic. Talk about lowering standards.

    That is the same mentality that has the Big 2.8 auto manufacturers (you know, the usual suspects) on the road to bankruptcy.

    Which is why I use group IV synthetics.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Okay here is a question I should know the answer to, but it has been so long since I have been in the business I am not so sure anymore....

    I learned a while back that you couldn't switch from Dino oil to full synthetic once a vehicle reaches a certain high mileage like 50-75K. I was also told that it is definately not recomended after 100K because the synthetic oil will actually start to cause oil blow by and get past the seals because it's properites are different that dino oil. The seals are conditioned to dino oil and that is the way it should stay. switching to synthetic I was told would cause engine failure sooner rather than later with dino oil.

    Is this true or is this a bunch of hogwash? If I have slightly over 100K on my vehicle now and wanted to switch to synthetic, would it be safe to do so? And if I did so, would I really be able to go 6-7K miles before an oil change instead of the 3K I am doing now?
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Okay - So I think I know what I plan to do. My truck is due for an oil change and so due to the responses I have seen here, and from talking to a couple of other lube mangagers, I feel fairly confident switching to synthetic. I assume that it is safe to do so, even though the vehicle has 105K miles. It is an S-10 with the 4.3. All oil changes have been between 2500 and 4000 miles. The longest was 4000 and they were highway miles when I was at 2500 miles and ended up doing 1500 more miles in the 3 days before I could get it in to change the oil.

    Also - one more question. If I do switch to synthetic I will do it for both vehicles I own. The other vehicle is an Impala with only 20K on it. Would I need to follow the same suggested initial OCI switchover as I do with my truck - changing the oil every 3K the first couple of times to flush it out even though it only has 20K on it. Again the same OCI has been followed with this vehicle with only changes every 3K. The time has been longer inbetween - sometimes as long as 6 months, but always right around the 3K mark.

    Suggestions on brand of oil... I have always used Valvoline dino oil, so would the Valvoline Synthetic be better or equal to say Mobile1? Or should I just go with MobileOne since it seems to be the most popular out there?

    (I promise not to hold any of you responsible if the motor blows up :D:D:D:D:D :shades:)

    The only vehicle I won't switch over is the 185K Chevy Van that I use for work... I have only had it for a few thousand miles, but I have no idea what kind of maintenance it has recieved. It runs well and doesn't smoke, but with 175K on it before I got a hold of it who knows??? I'll stick with Dino oil. It loses about a quart of oil between oil changes through either burning or leaking. No drops on the ground, but the bottom of the oil pan never seems quite dry.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Thanks all for the comments on my synthetic oil question! Next oil changes are all going to Mobile One... Thank you all once again! :D :shades:

    well except for the previously mentioned 185K van.... who knows what I would loosed up in there.. :D
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    So if I were to do an oil analysis, where would I send it and how much does it cost?
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I just changed from Valvoline Dino oil to Mobile 1, but I stuck with the basic Fram filter. Should I have gone to a TG or Extra Guard filter, or even a totally different brand all together? I have read many post on here about the Fram being garbage, but I have run Fram filters my entire driving career without a problem. But that has been with 3K OCI and Dino oil. This is the first time I have used synthetic.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    scan the table, or take a photo of it and load it into your computer. Save the picture, or scan using a photo program as a jpeg and then use CarSpace.com to post the picture and on CarSpace there is a link that you can use to post here and it will post the picture. (use the link at the top of this page that say's "My CarSpace" to get to your CarSpace page. It will guide you through uploading photos and such.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I've got a good friend (coincidently he is a Service Manager at a Wal-mart), and when I was in the store the other day talking to him, he had to step away to help a customer.

    The customer was curious as to what kind of oil he should put into his high mileage explorer and asked about synthetic. My friend proceeded to tell him that he recomends against synthetic because it is possible that the synthetic could clean all the gunk out of the motor and cause oil leaks and so on...

    I thought about trying to debate his reasoning, but then thought it wasn't worth it to get invovled....

    I think he did finally convince the customer to go with Valvoline Max-life.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    You probably need to reset the oil life monitor... from what I understand, most oil life monitors actually monitor driving styles and the stress put on a motor, not the actual oil itself. So when the oil is changed, the monitor has no way of knowing that the oil has been changed unless you reset it.

    I have had that happen a couple of times in my car. I will have just had the oil changed and a 1000 miles later the change oil light will come on. I just reset it and go. Look in your owner's manual. It should tell you all you need to know about the oil life monitor.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Hopefully your post won't get lost here with the current discussion going on...

    Here is my .02 on changing over to synthetic. I also have an S-10 with the 4.3 and currently have 105K on it and with the exception of one minor, hopefully not serious oil leak, have had no problems with oil consumption or burning. I have always run Valvoline 10W30 and changed it at 3K intervals almost religiously.

    I just switched to Mobile One to see what it would do. From the research that I did and watching the discussion on this thread, I felt it was safe to do so because I had maintained the oil changes regularly, the motor itself probably stayed pretty clean, therefore switching to Synthetic will probably do good. Contrary to popular belief, switching to synthetic should not cause oil leaks. The theory is that in higher mileage cars, there is gunk and junk on the rings and such that is keeping oil from getting past them and causing oil blow by. When synthetic is used, because of it's cleansing properties, it goes through the motor and cleans out this "gunk" that is holding the motor together and once that "gunk" is cleaned out, you start having problems.

    From what I have researched, that is not true. Yes, synthetic does have detergents that help clean out the motor, but it will not cause oil leaks, especially if you have kept up a good oil change interval for thus far in the life of the vehicle. A good test to see what shape your motor is in is to have an oil anylisis done and that will give you an idea of what the indsides look like. Switching to synthectic will likely help clean up the motor, but it might already be pretty clean considering your short OCI's. It also depends on the brand of oil you use too... A parafin based oil (Penzoil, Quakerstate) will likely leave more deposits than a non-parafin based oil (Valvoline, Havoline).
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    You can also go to post #6468, which is the start of my questions on whether or not you can switch to synthetic. It was this discusion that I decided I was safe to switch.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Hopefully it will take you back to the start of the discussion... Click on "replying to thebigal"
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    Maybe an increase in gas mileage. I didn't notice a change in either gas mileage or horsepower, but since I also need to tune up the poor thing (it still has the OEM plugs), I may be hindering it more with that than anything else.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    a 5 quart jug of Mobile1 is less than $30 at Wal-mart and where I live it is less than $25. Not sure what the SuperTech price is, but I'll bet it ain't more than $10 less. Is saving less than $10 worth the price of whatever a blown Evo motor will cost??? Even if the SuperTech were free, is saving $25 worth the price of an engine??
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    so heres a semi-dumb question... I am running M1 10w30 in both my '01 S-10 and my '04 Impala, would it be okay or even beneficial to switch to a 0w30 M1??
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    thnks for the info... both ruking and shipo. Even with summer coming up, 0W30 would still be okay? I have been running 10W30 (valvoline) for as long as I can remember (the owners manual does call for either 10 or 5W30. I just switched over both my Impala and my S-10 to the M1 10W30 and both have had an oil change since the switch. I ran both at a 3K interval with M1 to clean things out so to speak and the next interval on the Impala was almost 7K and has about 2K on the 3rd M1 change. The S-10 is now at 3K of it's second M1 change and I plan on leaving it in there for 7K, then getting an oil anylisis done to see where I stand. The Impala will get one at 7K as well as an oil anaylisis. I am guessing that I can push both to 10K or so, but want to see what 7K does.

    The Astro is sitting at almost 90K (on the vehicle not OCI :D) and I used Valvoline in it's last change, but since I just got it, I have no idea what has been put in it, or what it's OCI has been in it's past life. I am assuming since it was a fleet vehicle that it recieved regualr service, but what brand I am not too sure. Probably something from Pennzoil (most quick lubes in this area use Penzoil) which I am not fond of because it has parafin in it and that sludges stuff up no matter how often you change it (so I have heard, but never been able to confirm). So on it's next oil change in about 1K I am planning on switching to M1 as well, but was curious to see if I would see any benefit to using 0W30.

    I do notice that in the Astro, the oil pressure is a little unusually high, whereas my S-10 which uses the same basic drivetrain is quite a bit lower. This is at initial startup. Once the vehicle is warmed up, the Astro's oil pressure seems to drop slightly, but still runs abnormally high it seems. I don't know if this is bad or good, but my thought process is that the ports might be getting clogged (from running parafin based oils) and just like a clogged artery causes high blood pressure, these restricted ports are also causing the high oil pressure? So I am think that these need to be flushed out to improve oil flow, otherwise I am looking at expensive damage down the road....

    any thoughts?
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    interesting.... the OLM usually comes on in my '04 Impala aroudn 5K miles.... no where near even 10K.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    I just had the oil changed in my van... went from valvoline 10W30 to M1 0w30. Also as I was walking through the store (yes, I took it to a bix box quick lube place), I noticed they had started carrying AC Delco filters which is OEM for my vehicle(s). I have always used Frams and never had an issue with them, but after hearing all the megative hype, i decided that for just a couple extra bucks, I could get an OEM filter... Some one mentioned that frams would be fine for 3K miles, but since I am wanting to run a 10K OCI i didn't want to have to change the filter in the middle of the interval...

    should I be okay running a basic AC Delco filter for 7-10K miles??
  • the_big_althe_big_al Member Posts: 1,079
    thx... i might switch next time around... I just happened to pass the Delcos on the shelf and decided to switch from the fram to the delco... i ran the filter out the guys in the shop and they had already screwed the fram in place and were about to start the vehicle to pressure test... i caught it just in time :D:D ....

    it was by chance I ended up using the delco. otherwise I would have had a basic fram which not too many people here are fond of. I have never had a bad experience with them, but then again, until recently I have never gone more than 3K between oil changes so who knows. so when I saw the delcos on the shelf, I figured what the heck. It's here, and only a couple extra bucks so why not? Besides all that, the people here that aren't fond of them seem to know what they are talking about ;)
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."In one of our previous studies it was observed that engine oil samples collected from fleet vehicles after 12,000 mile drain interval showed 10-15% lower friction and more importantly, an order of magnitude lower wear rate than those of fresh oils."...

    ..."As in the previous study, the results showed that the aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection capability."...

    link title
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    So they are saying old oil is like aged fine wine? The only problem is defining when the rapid degradation occurs.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No not really, UOA's can be done base line, trend line, or snap shot (ad hoc).

    The problem with this SAE study is the implications have almost RADICAL consequences. For me it has LONG ago stopped being revolutionary. I have run 15,000, 20,000, 25,000 mile oci's for over 800,000 miles.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Member Posts: 24,202
    "...aged engine oils provide lower friction and much improved wear protection..."

    I find that hard to believe. Maybe some smart business person can collect all the old oil from Jiffy-Lube and sell it as "Aged" oil for a higher price.

    Still, why would these guys lie about something that would sell LESS oil?

    I wonder what the other factors they talk about are? :confuse:

    2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The range is stated at 10-15% and therefore better wear protection.

    Actually I hesitate to bring this up for the vast majority (98%) will NOT care or be affected. Made for Diesel oil (specifications are very important here) have gotten huge benefits from (burning) the new ULSD 2 @ 15 ppm (to ZERO in some cases). In my particular case, it really can mean up to 30,000 miles OCI's, (Burns far cleaner than USD and even RUG to PUG). I will do 25,000 miles OCI's, for I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy. ;) Imagine what Toyota will have to do to re engineer its engines (etc) to get off its 3,000 to 5,000 mile oil change recommendations. :lemon: Honda Civic has them totally flanked with 10,000 mile OCI's with CONVENTIONAL OIL !!!

    Corvette Z06 has been specified to run 5w30 (0w30 also) Mobil One, and has an OLM than can run 15,000 miles or 1 year.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    FYI
    RUG= regular unleaded gas
    PUG= premium unleaded gas

    :shades:
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    thanks, ruking1
    I said that a while back on these forums and was met with skepticism. Some people don't believe actual tests and fleet/engineering measurements. Instead, they believe only what they "think" is right based on old wives tales. In reality, it has been shown many times that slightly used oil has lower wear rates than new oil. I'm too lazy to list the web links, so for those doubters out there, just go to www.google.com and put in words like wear rate engine oil used

    What does this mean? Stop changing oil so often, save your money (for gas), and just use a good synthetic (with SM, GF-4, and ACEA A1 on the label, all three things on the label only) and change it once per year. A good filter like Mobil1 Ext Perf filter may help with those 1-year oil changes. Any more often is a waste of time.

    The explanation may be that slightly used oil has relatively soft carbon particles that act as tiny ball bearings, something new motor oil does not have. Arco Graphite motor oil back in the 70's and early 80's deliberately put carbon particles in their new motor oil to specifically lower wear rates. Arco Graphite oil link
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